A flying demonstrator aircraft will be unveiled within the next five years as part of the UK’s major next-generation fighter aircraft programme, the ‘Future Combat Air System’ (FCAS).

According to the Ministry of Defence, this comes as the future combat air programme launches a new recruitment and skills initiative known as Generation Tempest, set to create thousands of new job opportunities across the United Kingdom.

“The demonstrator aircraft is already in development between the Government and Team Tempest industry partners and the UK is actively progressing collaboration opportunities on the project with Italian industry partners. The flying demonstrator will be a piloted supersonic aircraft testing a range of new technologies including integration of stealth compatible features. This is the first time the UK will have developed a new fast aircraft using 21st century technology.

Work is rapidly gathering pace on this important part of the FCAS programme, with development of the demonstrator underway at BAE Systems’ facility near Preston in the north of England. This is being supported by hundreds of companies and thousands of engineers across the UK. The demonstrator is vital for ensuring our technology, skills and industrial capability are ready for the future. Designing and building the flying demonstrator will prove integration and test skills. It will also provide invaluable data and lessons to UK industry to support the introduction of a new FCAS aircraft from 2035.”

Team Tempest partners, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, Leonardo UK and MBDA UK, also aim to hire an additional 1,300 early careers starters by the end of 2023.

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:

“I am delighted that the UK, alongside Italy, Japan and Sweden are working on the same combat air journey together. Our work with Japan and Italy on cutting-edge technologies like this, shows the benefit of our alliances across the world. The design and development of the demonstrator aircraft represents an important milestone, showcasing the success and talent of our engineers,  programmers and software developers. This programme will go on to attract opportunities for many more great minds and talent from across the UK.”

The Ministry of Defence has also listed some of the efforts of ‘Team Tempest’ so far.

  • Rolls-Royce Defence has delivered a new gas turbine demonstrator engine, known as Orpheus, designed, built and tested in under two years to prove innovative technology developments for FCAS. Working with international partners, Rolls Royce have also agreed the next stage of the full-scale engine demonstrator programme.
  • BAE Systems has used digital transformation to design and build a representative military fast jet fuselage, demonstrating how innovative technologies can transform the design and manufacturing capability for Tempest. Commercial robots were adapted and utilised, and 65% of the parts were guided into location using automation.
  • Leonardo UK and Japan’s Mitsubishi Electric have agreed the concept for a radar technology demonstrator called JAGUAR, first unveiled in February, following the completion of joint concept work and feasibility studies earlier this year.
  • Leonardo has also revealed ongoing bilateral work to support the future electronics on-board the FCAS programme. Leonardo in the UK and in Italy are working together on a number of projects with Elettronica in Italy including joint assessment of potential architecture of a common Integrated Sensing and Non-Kinetic Effects (ISANKE) and Integrated Communications System. The work is complementary to ongoing collaboration with Japan on 6th generation sensor capabilities, an area in which Italy will soon be involved.
  • MBDA unveiled its concept for a weapon effects management system, to aid the coordination of all available weapons in the battle space using Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning enhanced software.

 

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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124 COMMENTS

  1. New British fighter jet ‘Tempest’ to fly within five years
    5 years is too long a wait, given the Russia-Ukraine War

    • If you think about typhoon timeline the tech demonstrator flew in 1986 with prototype in 1994 and and IOC in 2003. If tempest does not fly prototype by 2027 then it won’t fly before 2050.

      • Sorry things have changed extraordinarily since then in both technology and the partnership parameters. While nothing can be guaranteed with the latter I doubt that even if we were dealing with the Germans, present realisations and realities are unlikely to remotely delay the project the way they did with Typhoon. Most if not all partners are going to be far more engaged now that we aren’t operating in the post Soviet arena of Glasnost, the peace dividend and defence cut backs.

        But even more importantly, technology is just so much more advanced, geez when the Typhoon demonstrator was developed computers and software were in the Stone Age. Now (with great help from Saab) you can create a digital twin to analyse all factors and how they interact build test components via 3d printing with almost anything you need, test and modify in a fraction of the time you could with EAD and Typhoon prototypes and design. There will inevitably be delays but if the will is there and maintained a production ready fighter should be available by mid thirties or at worst by 2040.

        • Agree if you keep France and Germany out of the program, will run a lot smoother. those 2 never agree on anything

        • They said the same about F35. Computer aided design and manufacture speeds things up but it’s the vast amount of code that will take years to develop.

        • If you have been following, BAE are already working on advanced manufacturing, the finished product will be with us within 10 years. The past is the past.

    • Umm really, the development of a fifth generation fight takes a very long time indeed. Look at the F35:

      started life as a number of programmes in the 1980s…merged into the joint advanced strike tec programme in 1993..from this they ordered two demonstrators in 1996 that flew 2000-2001, this when onto development of a pre production F35 in 2006 and first deployment in 2015…the F22 had around the. Same sort of development timelines ( demonstrators ordered in 86 flew in 90, first f22 pre production flight 1997, operational 2005)…..your really taking a couple of decades to design and deploy of 5th-6th generation fighter. It’s not something that’s bashed up on a drawing board, even something like a spitfire had around a 7 year development.

    • Five years seems hugely impressive to me. Can’t wait to see its first flight! Wouldn’t a great demo be landing the aircraft and then revealing that it doesn’t have a pilot inside? I know they wouldn’t do that, but it would be very cool nonetheless.

    • Can’t say I follow your logic mate, its not like we’re in shock and awe at the might of the Russian armed forces in their Lightning War in Ukraine. If anything its Russia that will be in a mad rush to upgrade their gear after seeing how its performed.

      • Judging by previous performance thats highly unlikely, especially as previous attempts were in a pretty supportive environment as opposed to the hostile environment post war when costs spiral replacing basic material the priority and obtaining the technology will be so much more difficult to obtain. Geez they have barely produced a new frigate a decade, their new tank languishes in developmental problems they struggle to resolve and that along with their ‘new’ 5th Gen fighters are rarer than unicorns despite the long drawn out development. Even t90s are barely being used in Ukraine they are so scared to lose them and the much hyped Checkmate is already delayed and without western technology is going to at best undergo redesign to adapt to Chinese ( hey maybe Iranian 😂🤣) tech if it isn’t cancelled unless potential buyers don’t invest in it heavily.

      • Hmmm Russian problems go beyond technology. When they get their act together watch out. The Mig 15 and the A bomb were unwelcome surprises with a little help from simple friends.

        • Good old Clement Attlee Gifted a RR jet engine in 1946 to the Soviets where as the A bomb was achieved through Russian Sympathisers Spy’s working for either the Manhattan project or our own Nuclear project

    • The object is to keep the design teams together and employed for as long as possible so we don’t have to start from scratch next time.

    • Don’t know but for the life of me I can’t understand why Tempest flying sooner than that is going to have any effect on or the immediate aftermath of that war. Present aircraft are well beyond what’s required till the thirties, even if numbers are in question. We can all start whinging come 2030 plus.

    • It’s a technology demonstrator, not a production airframe. If people can cast their minds back to the 80’s, we had a technology demonstrator call EAP, which eventually became the Typhoon. Tempest is years away from entering squadron service, but this is an important stepping stone in that journey.

  2. This is beginning to sound like progress. The delivery of the engine in particular is most encouraging.

      • Yes was reading about it this morning guessing it might be related to Tempest sounds vet impressive indeed, cooperation with others and potentially more is clearly helping confidence to invest there.

  3. This is good news: together with a rumoured Japanese partnership, it will build up a hopefully unstoppable momentum, insulated from political cancellation.

  5. Read an article that Tempest and the Japanese F-X program could be merged. I wonder if there would be an official announcement at Farnborough

    • Would be interesting to see how workshare etc is handled. While the air-forces are of a comparable size Japan has double the GDP of the U.K.

      • The report is the assembly would be local and they would have geographic ‘franchises’ for exports, i.e. Japan would have exclusive rights in Asia. Similar to Eurofighter assembly.

      • True but we have a considerable amount more military expertise they need, after all they were only were allowed to produce anything deemed as offensive weaponry the past 20 years or so and indeed only now trying to change the Constitution to allow any long range weaponry to be employed let alone produced. Doesn’t matter how smart you are that’s a lot of catching up to do even for a former military heavyweight like Mitsubishi who are responsible for their fighter project.

        They have had to be very careful which is why they have become so reliant on the US which they now need to break free from. We have a lot to offer them just as we did at the turn of the last Century when we built their navy and introduced them to Western technology. Of course they went on to wallop the Russians with that Input. Japan and Britain indeed have long histories and military ties together even back to the point we were responsible for enabling the present Emperor’s ancestors to gain power.

        The interesting bit in this announcement mind to me was to read that Italian companies beyond Leonardo UK are involved in Tempest on the sensor/electronics side and that moves are afoot to bring them into the complimentary Anglo Japanese work on the radar ( indeed I didn’t know we had gone that far with the Japanese ). This suggests both that Italian involvement is firming up and that indeed the UK is working to bring their own and Japanese projects closer together, however related they end up being. Even now with engine, related aerodynamic features, radar, other electronics and weaponry it’s a big overlap developing.

      • But not double the technology, which is more relevant! Japan have no tier 1 military contractors the UK have at least 4. There is no question who will take the leadership role. Japanese only Trump card is a guaranteed purchase order of 100+

        • I’ve just read the FT piece again, and the announcement today is about collaborating on the Tempest programme, for instance we already know that Rolls Royce are working on engine development with Japan. The actual merger of the FX programme is not scheduled to be signed until the end of this year, so plenty of time for some dirty tricks! It’s all about technology transfer, and the Americans are not happy with it. Shades of what is going on with the Franco/German work.

          • Well maybe the US needs to learn to share its technology transfers a bit more readily and stop being so darn controlling. It’s all friendly competition and other countries deserve their successes too.
            Heck, all we need now is a VSTOL Tempest…anyone?

          • That’s a really neat idea, put a nozzle on the front fan of the engine so the efflux can go downwards, same on the tail like the F35b and bobs your uncle. You heard it here first…. Oh, didn’t Hawkers do something similar in the 1960’s, damn, sometimes my good ideas are well behind the curve!

    • Can’t announce until it’s a proper agreement and from what insiders have said not likely much before year end. Be embarrassing to announce an intention and then agreement doesn’t materialise even if that’s unlikely. So fingers crossed but already they are involved in engine, engine related aircraft aerodynamic design and parts, weapons and sensor developement so looks pretty big overlaps already.

    • They have this week cancelled the B-21 loyal wingman drone. Arguing whats the point of building a drone that costs almost as much as the piloted version of a heavy bomber and while for a fighter you get the pilots weight saving on a bomber that saving is negligible.

    • That sounded as complex an update as trying to tie various Countries to a development programme, esp if two of them are France and Germany. I suspect the US is going to struggle to keep everyone happy here and as for the demonstrator it’s difficult to discern exactly what form this has taken so far as it’s not clear as to whether the airframe itself is actually unique or whether it’s actually the technology in those three areas mentioned that are the unique aspects. If they are ready to go on to the develop and production phase but are yet to select a company to produce it then it seems to me that it’s really the latter and that it’s now confident in the technology concepts on trial and to be exploited and has decided upon the answers the testing has provided in the demonstrator and is now ready to ask the aircraft manufacturers to actually design an aircraft around them. I get the feeling that what with Trump boasting about this project as a brand new aircraft in itself brought to life in a few years those in responsible positions now are somewhat compelled to obscure perhaps the actual reality. Describing it as an x-plane like project gives the right noises and visual imagery to the mind, without having to flesh out the reality behind it which might be something in terms of an airframe anyway a little less than unique. Time will no doubt enlighten us as to what form this demonstrator has taken but surely if one company has already been contracted to do that, design, construct and demonstrate a new aircraft it will have a very big advantage over new competitors that haven’t flown anything as yet whatever effort has gone into their concepts. That’s why I’m a little cynical about those noises rightly or wrongly and nothing that’s said makes me feel any less so.

  7. A real step forward and if Japan’s FX and Tempest do become part of the same programme a truly global aircraft for the future.

    • I did read an article that the programs could be merged. Well, at least a higher level of cooperation. I’m not sure who would have the lead in the project.

      • Reuters broke that story and it appears to be true based on the reaction of trade press and military analysts. The suggestions appears to be a mutual lead on the project, but with Japan distributing aircraft to customers in Asia and Oceania, and us to customers in Europe and the Middle East

    • Farouk – it’s juicy. The CEO on Dassault said on the 7th of June this year that the Franco-German FCAS is undeliverable before 2050. It appears to be firmly on the rocks due to industrial disputes

      Source: Jane’s, FlightGlobal

          • One day might learn to type quicker 😀

            This is exciting news mind. BAE Systems did pretty well getting the Eurofighter demonstrator flying in the late 1980’s so have some track record – assuming not everyone has retired! Although they have also flown the Taranis drone which was a pretty complex beast from what little was available online… So hopefully 5 years is doable.

            Cheers CR

          • Plus they have just launched two strike/loyal wingman drone designs with mock ups at Riat and no doubt at Farnborough too. One looks almost identical to its American equivalent ‘coincidentally’. Bae did wonders with the Eurofighter demonstrator back in the day even utilising a Tornado tail rather than the original German twin design was held up after their first hesitation on the project. First of many sadly that plagued the project.

    • Stalled.

      Levi Goldstienberg quoted the CEO of Dassault suggesting that their program would not deliver until 2050.

      Me and Levi chatted about this on the Typhoon radar article from the other day.

      There are a number of articles online stating that there is a bun fight over the flight control software between Dassault, who own the software, and Airbus who want access… They have been arguing since September and things have got so bad Dassault have reasigned their team onto other projects.

      Oddly, everthing appears to be going swimmingly with the loyal wingman part of the program, raising the interesting possibility that they might end up with a bunch of loyal wingman drones with nothing to be ‘loyal to’…

      If Tempest do get a demonstrator flying in 5 years, I’ll be very pleasantly surprised and feeling pretty smug on behalf of our team 🙂

      Cheers CR

      • Yes last I heard was going well at the governmental level with financial participation ratios agreed but the industrial consortium couldnt agree the work-share divvying at the company level. This is partly as its Airbus Spain and Airbus Germany as national leads meaning French Dassault are feeling ganged up on.

    • why wants it in grey and the other Blue, so they have downed pencils untill a mediation process can be completed and see if they are both happy with green,

  9. This is very exciting, particularly so if it is true that Japan is now onboard as an equal development partner. Quite aside from the obvious economic, geopolitical and military benefits of a successful export aircraft, I think it will do wonders for our collective country’s self-confidence, in the same way Harrier did.

    Also – I take a lot of schadenfreude from the Franco-German FCAS being on the verge of collapse. The CEO of Dassault has said they cannot deliver before 2050. I take some smug, unearned pride from that

    • Hi Levi,

      I don’t think Japan is on board officially with the fully program as yet as a recent article suggested that discussions were on-going. The situation is confused as initially they decided to go it alone, but collaborate would on sub-systems. So I am guessing that Japan’s participation will be on the basis of the existing agreements with the possiblity of them getting more involved if the current discussions about them joining the full Tempest program are successful.

      Entirely my own thoughts…

      Cheers CR

      • The suggestion is Japan wants to be a Tier 1 partner on the same level as the UK and have local assembly and export rights, much higher than Swedish/Italian participation level which would likely just be local assembly rights and workshare on components generally.

        However the whole project is geared around modularity and the British and Japanese aircraft despite using mostly the same parts wouldn’t be identical, like F-35 variants.

        • Interesting you can see where the complexities come in of any collaboration not to mention the Japanese won’t want to completely shun the US certainly not by some massive announcement anyway. I think they will just gradually merge however considering the overlap already.
          The difference on the cooperation is that should this happen Japan and UK would be officially combining national project whereas as yet neither the Swedes or the Italians have officially committed to participate and thus this would certainly need to be sorted if they feel threatened by Anglo Japanese combining. If they want equal or even part terms on the project they will need to come full in methinks otherwise they will have to accept supplier status even if privileged suppliers. Either way yes a lot to sort out to not offend any of the parties.

          • Italians committed 6B$
            Sweden are still in observation status.

            The difference on the cooperation is that should this happen Japan and UK would be officially combining national project whereas as yet neither the Swedes or the Italians have officially committed to participate and thus this would certainly need to be sorted if they feel threatened by Anglo Japanese combining.

            Britain has committed to invest £2 billion ($2.4 billion) in Tempest through 2025 with additional funding to come. The Italian parliament in December approved a €6 billion ($6 billion) investment over the next 10 years.

  10. This is really good news, especially getting the multi national partnership, U.K., Sweden, Italy and Japan are all serious players and can actually equal the mass of skills of the other likely players. This is a great opportunity for the British aviation industry as we will have links into most of the future options for western nations and allies, buying typhoon we win, buying f35 we win…and then we will have a whole new 6th generation offer.

  12. How is the Franco-German FCAS doing? The last time I heard, they got over the issue with Airbus, or was it Dassault ?.

    • They? Who is they? The fifth largest economy in the world? And if rumours are to be believed, partnered with the third largest economy in the world in Japan?

      If not us then who mate

    • Yes got that bookmarked to read it was a blank link earlier today obviously had an embargo. It ties in somewhat with the announcement last week that Reaction engines are starting true flight envelope simulated testing of their pre cooler technology at their upgraded facilities in the US. 3 times the input speed of their previous successful tests representing 4000 mph plus in the atmosphere. Assuming the testing is successful it will enable this technology to be applied to existing and future jet engines to give them the capability to produce far more power in a range of vehicles in far simpler form than has been enabled until now for example by the immensely complex design of the Blackbird engines.

      I see some skepticism below but this isn’t about a Sabre design engine it’s about being applied to present generation technology in jet propulsion and as such may well be applicable within a decade with modifications. After all the pre cooling tech is already being developed to be utilised in F1 and various other schemes so it’s not pie in the sky.

      • The technology of the pre-cooler was proven using if I remember correctly a RR Avon or Spey about 10 years ago. As it was using cryogenic refrigeration, this allowed it to cool inlet temperatures well below -100C. It proved that a turbojet could produce substantially more thrust. However, the concept is not new, as domestic power stations that use jet engines have used pre-coolers and recuperators for years to increase their efficiency. The main break through Reaction Engines had, was that they came up with a method that prevented ice being formed in the pre-cooler. Which allowed the cooler to operate at sustained lower temperatures than had been achieved before.

  15. The US already tried to undermine Tempest by threatening Japan not to be a partner. You can see that it was ineffective, but still makes for interesting reading

      • You have google just as well as me.

        Fact is I can’t find any reference to it now; google is polluted with news stories about Britain and Japan’s defence collaboration from more recent years. What I’m referring to happened two/two and a half years ago.

        But it was reasonably widely reported – including on UKDJ if I remember correctly – that the US strongly implied (wink wink nudge nudge) that they would have to review Japan’s access to US technology and intelligence if they sided with the British project. It was coercion rather than a threat, and as you can see, it didn’t work. I guess the US doesn’t have that degree of clout anymore

        • They also threatened that over Ultra electronics.

          A bluff, they would be hit as hard as the UK and Japan as they rely on overseas bases and 5 Eyes in hand in glove.

        • I agree I read it all too, some of it was reported on here indeed. Also well known that the US then offered an F22 airframe but total control over its maintenance and upgrades. They clearly thought they had Japan over a barrel but fact is with the rise and threat of China the US needs Japan as much as vice versa and like Australia needing nuclear submarines in this scenario Japan knows it needs a high level of independence in its defence decision making and technology and needs it quick especially witnessing the potential internal breakdown of the US as a potential reality now. The US as usual over played it’s hand.

      • 2019, threatened to reduce defence co-operation if Japan didnt select a US company as prime Integration contractor, then Trump threatened to close US bases in Japan if Japan didnt pay the US more and directly linking it to the F-X project (US expects base host countries to pay the difference in operating costs between domestic and foreign barracks or provide services in kind).

        https://www.ft.com/content/a024eeec-1b08-11ea-97df-cc63de1d73f4

        • Yes even then the US didn’t understand how world political events were undermining their ability to play the big brother card to the same degree it previously had felt entitled to. Japan now understands that game is substantially a weakening hand for the US for their own security and equally there are two sides to it with a US potentially wracked by internal insecurity in the coming years relying on it as they have for their ultimate defence is increasingly dangerous game for them. They need the nuclear shield true but as has been discussed in Europe since the war begun does anyone think the US would risk its own destruction to respond to a strike in Europe. There was apparently an internal debate over this under Obama where a Russian strike in the Baltics would if it was responded to at as a ‘tactical’ strike in Belarus as a strike on your occupied European or Russian territory was deemed unacceptable for obvious reasons. So one wonders just how confident the Japanese are based on that knowledge.

      • This take has absolutely no handle on reality. Again what possible reason would Israel buying American have on Japans decision, do you have any historical evidence. On the contrary the evidence suggests as does logic that Japan is no longer willing to commit its security totally to the US, it wants its own ability to produce its own weaponry as much as possible, has spent 20 years in nudging it’s people and it’s constitution to achieve that and to that end Britain is willing, if you listen to them it has already agreed to a lesser degree with Turkey to transfer technology to Japan which will give it that road to independence in the timescale it needs to do so. The present hostility and threats from China has given it little choice in this matter and shown the absolute necessity.

        Japan is already committed to produce its own fighter it’s not going to simply buy off the shelf from the US ( even the US offer to help them build it was both arrogant, restrictive and unacceptable to them) or indeed buy from anyone else and what Israel does has no bearing on this. Equally Israel is not going to join Tempest it ain’t going to happen, politically they are totally reliant on the US for their survival and equally they have, due to complex historical reasons that I won’t go into here but have many heads and can be researched if you want to, a massive influence over US political decision making as a hostile Obama found out to his cost. It’s a mutual love/hate act that the US is incapable of escaping, we see Biden going along with it this past week like the good zombie he is in such matters, whatever moral qualms he personally feels. A long way to go in whatever agreements are made but whatever they are between interested parties your logic simply doesn’t apply here. And as I say elsewhere Japan’s importance in the defence of the ‘island chain’ and greater Pacific is vital to the US which can no longer ensure superiority by itself. This gives Japan far more freedom of choice whatever its wish to stay on good terms with the US and allying with the Country that is the US’s closest ally is the least controversial decision to best meet all their needs and least upset friends.

          • What are you smoking? The UK is the 5th biggest economy in the world, bigger than France who have no input from the US for their ICBMs. Not sure what sort of education you have but Google UK and the Manhattan project.

  17. At last some sort of programme has been sketched out for Tempest. No doubt it has to fit in the MOD funding cycle for major programmes after Trident replacement and possibly a Carrier mid life which must be in work up now. Its only a TDP example within 5 years and it will be many years before a first operational jet is available which depends on the outcome of the TDP so 2035 looks tight but possible at this stage. Given the history of Defence funding of major programmes, its very rare for a programme of this type to proceed without a “Restructuring ” of the programme when the full costs are realised. Restructuring meaning any one of or combination of the following: delay, reduced numbers, and/or reduced IOC capability Also a complex partnering arrangement with a number of countries adds costs and time to a programme if only to get agreement of all partners – ask anyone involved with the Tornado and Typhoon joint development programmes and I bet they are all bald having torn their hair out trying to get decisions. .

    • I’m not sure even they would, they’re pretty keen to get across a new patriotic verve in their PR

    • By and large both parties support UK defence. After all, it’s supposed to be the first priority – protect the people. Have to say the carriers were Labour initially (whatever input Brown is supposed to have had, which is as likely more hyperbole than hard fact), and I don’t forget so was the nuclear deterrent.
      As I’ve stated before; don’t worry, the Russians and Chinese will adequately contribute to future UK spending decisions regardless.

      • It’s excellent news for UK plc and it looks like France is way out in the cold!

        Staying clear of European squabbles keeps the Tempest show on the road.

        A prospective full link up with Japan promises a truly capable, F22 sized and world beating machine.

        France has proven an unreliable UK defence engineering partner and Germany will likely fully embrace an advanced F35 variant with local assembly.

        A resurgent and aggressive Russia will mean Germany wanting to be covered by Uncle Sam’s nuclear umbrella, so a shift back to US products is inevitable in my opinion. It will be the ‘price’ of Sam’s protection.

        Also the US will seize the opportunity to strangle off a potential European Gen6 competitor to its own products by quickly moving to offer an advanced F35 to Spain too.

        What can France do, attempt an advanced Rafael variant perhaps, something akin to the once proposed F15 Silent Eagle?

        They have some extremely capable engineering companies, but they simply can’t afford an all singing and dancing ground up Gen6 machine like Tempest on their own, especially as they intend to cripple and complicate it with a duel role Carrier capability.

        Interesting times…

    • No Need and timescale is against it BAEs are full on delivering the Typhoon for Qatar, for the next 3 years. 5 years to deliver aircraft might only be in service 10 years.

  21. Prediction: The Tempest consortium will produce a technologically stunning demonstrator, nominally w/in the proposed timeframe. An incredibly successful test program will follow. Unfortunately, the good news for the stakeholders ends there. Why? Simples! Uncle Sugar’s minions, acting in a hybrid manner between the Godfather and members of the Borg Collective, will arrive to “negotiate a merger” between NGAD and Tempest programs. At that point, advise hiding the women and children, and making haste for the nearest mountains. Mark this fearless prediction for future reference

    • Not 100% unlikely! However, my offbeat prediction is that NGAD will “absorb” the European effort, not Tempest. What many people fail to factor into the equation is Japan’s determination to get on the top table and this is their only avenue. If they partner with the US they will always be a junior partner, but with the UK they can be equal partners by virtue of their financial clout. However, the euro FCAS is doomed to failure as Dessault will never relinquish leadership to Airbus and the Germans are fed up of being the bigger economy but junior partners. The face saver would be to join NGAD.

      • The Borg (from Star Trek Next Generation)…”resistance is futile, you will be assimilated”… 🤣😂😁🤔😳🙄

  23. Starting to sound like a plan(e). Wonder if it’ll stay with the more vertical tail, since other 6th gen designs are looking to reduce or eliminate same.

  24. We have been hearing about Tempest for years, so I hope it :wpds_idea:  flies. A demonstrator, that is.
    :wpds_idea:

  25. Will the Chinese steel the info and build it first… or the Americans. We tend to come third even with our own inventions

  26. My real concern, it that this will prove to be horrifically expensive. Wasn’t that the main factor, in the USAF not getting the number of F-22’s they were originally promised?

    • Yep. But some people believe that 6th gen fighters are somehow going to be by magic, cheap. These people are usually recaptured pretty quickly 😄

    • The actual production cost of the F-22 wasnt significantly higher than other fighters, around $125m without engine in a time most fighters were $80-100m. There were a few factors that made it unfavorable to produce more of even before the line was shutdown though.

      1. Most cutting edge radar and other equipment but the airframe was actually an early 80’s design, heavy, with limited performance growth possibility.
      2. Early stealth coating design that was less stable, it has to be reapplied every few missions and the aircraft stored in climate controlled hangers to protect it. Meaning huge infrastructure and ongoing maintenance costs.
      3. Was too exclusive, US refused to share its design with others meaning no export options, even within the US it being so heavy and not saltwater friendly meant the Navy wasnt interested in it.
      4. F-35 came along straight after that offered many of the same performance capabilities but less expensive to maintain due to greater units sold and more mature technology. E.g. Had the same radar but improved to allow air-to-ground, this was later retrofitted back to the F-22.
      5. Dedicated Air Superiority platform, no built in laser designator, radar originally couldnt identify ground targets, almost no bomb capacity, can only carry two 1,000lb GPS guided bombs at the expense of no long range missiles or carrying external stores and compromising its stealth. So the platform wasnt swing-role in an age where almost every aircraft is capable of swing-role to improve their versatility.

  29. If the UK, Italy, Sweden and Japan all have potential orders for Tempest then it looks like we are back in the combat aircraft production game again. Good luck to the team and lets hope we see one flying in five years time.

    Would I like to see France and Germany on board, not really sure on that one, my gut says no, not to be trusted my head says yes but only if we can trust them not to mess things up.

  31. The time that WW2 aircraft took from the drawing board to flight test was decades, given that we can use the science behind flight, the elements still will be the final test and we need to use a test vehicle for even more tests.

  33. Is tempest design change to more baes system replica style looking?

    As big notice on change Intake and tail fin style?

  35. The tempest is an excellent 6th gen design, I gave my brother Noddy a design that would work, take a plane to a 7th gen, with the ability to be hypersonic, and gives it capabilities of the old tornado, with a wing than can change angle for speed, with an extra stealth ability included just in case the enemy can detect it. With a stealth design, and harrier jump jet abilities better than the harrier jump jet. So it could be used off an aircraft carrier, would be faster than an F-35 stealth fighter. And have all the added extras. As it could carry payload. I can even design the missiles. Which could rotate to still be straight if thewas changed. With 3 positions each could and would give the fighter greater speed and ability, it even has a euro fighter style edition to give it even more capabilities.with would put us in the 7th gen fighter now.

  36. Love is in the air…

    French defence minister praises UK

    “I have a lot of faith in the United Kingdom. I think that the Brexit does not change our collective security agenda in Europe,” the minister said, before recalling the Franco-British closeness in military matters and evoking the “prospects of a new agenda to allow for a number of concrete actions, and not just industrial ones.

  37. I was interested to read today that Italy has decided to massively increase its funding to the Tempest program – from €20 million a year to €220 million this year and €345 million next year! I wonder if this has anything to do with reports that Japan is likely to merge its F-X programme with Tempest, potentially relegating Italy to the status of a very junior partner unless it put a lot more money into the kitty.

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