Royal New Zealand Navy frigate HMNZS Te Kaha and replenishment tanker HMNZS Aotearoa will sail with HMS Queen Elizabeth and her Carrier Strike Group.
We are looking forward to elements of #CSG21 working alongside you in this truly international exercise. The Strike Group is international by design and the opportunity to work with like minded nations only strengthens our resolve and commitment to the region. https://t.co/Gyf5QjzLqI
— Rear Admiral Steve Moorhouse (@smrmoorhouse) September 19, 2021
According to a statement from the Royal New Zealand Navy:
“The New Zealand Defence Force is to participate in an international defence exercise in South East Asia and will also interact with the United Kingdom’s Carrier Strike Group (CSG) as it conducts engagement activities in the Indo-Pacific region.
Royal New Zealand Navy frigate HMNZS Te Kaha and replenishment tanker HMNZS Aotearoa, with a Seasprite helicopter on board, have this week departed Auckland’s Hauraki Gulf for the next 2-3 months at sea.
Aircrew on a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion will join the naval Task Group for Bersama Gold 21, a major exercise on the international calendar marking the 50th anniversary of the Five Power Defence Arrangements (FPDA). The Orion will also interact with the UK CSG.”
As part of its maiden operational deployment, the Ministry of Defence say that HMS Queen Elizabeth and her Carrier Strike Group will sail over 26,000 nautical miles, engaging with 40 countries from the Mediterranean to the Indo-Pacific and back again.
“This deployment will provide tangible reassurance and security to our friends and a credible deterrence to those who seek to undermine global security.”
The group comprises nine ships, 32 aircraft and one submarine and is manned by 3,700 sailors, aviators and marines from the combined forces of the UK, US and the Netherlands.
Good to see a Sea Ceptor equipped frigate joining the carrier group!
Unfortunately, it’s just about the full deployable combat capable available units… the Royal New Zealand navy’s main fighting assets are two frigates…
And? A country of 5 million. and a GDP of $205B… What do you expect… How come I don’t hear people say this about the Irish Naval Service… has a similar population and twice the size GDP than NZ but only has OPV’s no frigates, no tanker, no current sealift vessel (yes they are looking at getting one) no DHV? No Anti Submarine, no Maritime helo, No Anti Ship… Not Anti air… And has more of a threat than NZ has… RNZN x2 FFG x2 OPV’s (a 3rd Southern ocean one is in the works) x2 IPV’s (The other two… Read more »
I wonder if the RN is looking at a permanent deployment of vessels out from a NZ or OZ port? This theater is warming up, and not because of the new nuclear alliance with Australia/USA/UK, but China’s huge military expansion in the area.
Maurice,
‘New Zealand is literally at the end of the world! The only risk militarily to New Zealand is if the French were to return to blow up any more green peace ships!
Does that mean you think the world is flat? Wonder if anyone in NZ has fallen off the end?
Sorry, couldn’t resist. 😂
Thanks Paul you’ve just burst my bubble , At least I know the Moon’s a Balloon
The Moon is Not a Balloon, it is a very fine and mature cheddar truckle 😀
That’s another bubble burst might as well , just block up my Chimney next your be saying Father Christmas isn’t real
There are clearly two Chinas, one welcomes world trade and manufacturing facilities, the other, less embracing and shows a determination to present a steel core to the World. I believe this is a deliberate policy to underwrite the very basics of a united nation, determined never to be subjected to invasion and deprivation again. That said, if the industrial face begins to diminish, then a different China could emerge and the current upgrading of Austrazrian defence could be a timely strategy?
It was so secret doing the Rainbow Warriir that they got caught must of been the Garlic dead giveaway
China will still send ships into New Zealand EEZ along with their fishing fleets uninterrupted if New Zealand let’s them. Why do you think they claimed the South China Sea as its own?
Shame a few well laid minefields can’t be sown around FEZ by a STUFT as NZ has no MW capabilities nowadays a Ferry should suffice to do the job
I don’t think that Austrialia, US or the UK would be beefing up their military in that area if it wasn’t for China increasing it’s military. Are all these issues all not linked? I foresee a situation where the Chinese see a steady drop off of revenues from many western countries. They can then choose a path of warmer relations or decending into a cold war which they would not want to see go hot any more than anyone else. Beefing up the military by Western nations to match the Chinese is a sensible precaution built on exactly the same… Read more »
I would be great to base a couple Astutes in OZ, gives us far more deployable options. How about a couple type 26 frigates too whilst we are at it.
Up till now AUS have not been too keen on having nuclear anything close to hand. This now changes that stance and may also be a cover(t) reason for doing so. In that it allows UK / US basing of SSN’s which achieves the objective. The question really is can the Astutes be run that hard, as RN are running some of the T23 frigates and Rivers, With crew rotations being flown out? Does it compromise the pressure hull life with its inevitably limited number of dive cycles? Can the vessel cope with the more limited maintenance facilities abroad? With… Read more »
It takes some time to deploy ships and Subs globally so forwarded basing makes some sense. But I can’t see subs forward bases though, but we do need some in that region to help keep tabs on the Chinese and Russian eastern fleet. But We dont have the Numbers anymore ..
USN perhaps!!!!!!
They could be run that hard, but then wouldn’t last until their expected OSD, where we will then face an even greater shortfall in SSN numbers. SSN(R)won’t be ready until 2040ish.
Time for another top up batch of Astutes for the RN and first of the class for the RAN?
If only……….
Boris, would just so as he can stick two fingers,up at Macron how dare their refuse too meet our Defense minister for talks , probably still looking for the toys their threw out of the Pram.last week
It’s time we put “use by Dates” on surface and sub,surface Assets rather than retiring before time fair enough HMs Speedy was a waste of tine What we’re good at is Quality not Quantity we’re,as China is opposite ,
We dont have enough as it is. We would need 14 or 15 attack subs and a return to the original 13 type 26 frigates to facilitate such a scheme whilst retaining adequate defence of the realm from a resurrgent Russia.
Too few of both, and not necessary.
T26 supports the CSG, most Astute, apart from the one east of Suez, are needed elsewhere, like the GIUK Gap.
The whole point of Aus getting SSN is to bolster the SSN of the USN in that area.
As in another thread I mentioned the GAP and was informed that SOSUS is still up and running nolonger in Bermuda but Virginia,
Is now called IUSS.
Was at the JMF at St Mawgan.
Now Dam Neck.
Did have a few tinnies with them 78 whilst in Bermuda
Typhoons, still have quite a few years left on their Frames and MOD want too retire them let’s give them too Aus and coloured Balloons too Ms Ardern
The two Type 31’s will be the only permanent RN presence in the Pacific. Duqm will be the base for an LSG and visiting CSG. Any base in Oz would be eye wateringly expensive and unnecessary. Everyone seems to think overseas bases come free of charge. They don’t.
MULBERRY?
Cost I just don’t think we can spare the cash for a base in the Pacific. Even if we could it would be a juicy target for the Treasury. So long as we can deploy a CSG and or LSG if needed that should be as much as we can do. So long as the bad guys know that. It’s doing it’s job.
Nope.
At Last Mrs Aredean has let the Boys out to play with their Cousins
Ah, but she’s not a Mrs Ardern, she’s a Ms Ardern.
Her partner is Clarke Gayford (and no, I’m not making that name up either!).
Cheers
Shocking Miss not Mrs what is this World coming too and their was me thinking Kiwi’s were so Conservative in their lifestyle
In fairness Tommo, they are about to to tie the knot.
I just wondered will MISS Ardern be Mrs Ardern or will she be a Gayford will people keep a straight face when she’s introduced I know very school boyish luckerly it’s Ford and not Lord
Ha ha very good T, made my day !
It’s a defence mechanism I’ve used since 82 Humour can defuse awkward and scary situations and by your post it worked Klonkie
If you want to understand NZ read the Guardian. Yep their a lost cause.
The Guardian is exactly the same Dave ,even Chip shops use too refuse wrap Chips in the Guardian as it would put diner’s off
well see when the next election rolls around in 2023.,
Seems an odd choice to bestow a tanker of all things with the name of your country and not a warship proper. Imagine if USS America was a humble Supply class instead of a frontline LHD
New Zealand have been having a special few years. Perhaps one day they’ll snap out of it.
You would think NZ would be an excellent type 31 candidate. Unfortunately their gov thinks they can close their eyes and the Chinese threat will go away.
What would you suggest they do? China accounts for 30% of their exports, twice as much as any other nation. The problems in the SCS must seem a world away for them. They are treading a line between supporting allies and maintaining their economy. Not an easy decision at all.
They can rebuild their military back to a viable force that could support their allies. Its simply a numbers game. China seem intent on out building the USN that is akin to the dreadnough race pre WW1. Trouble for China is that it isnt just China vs USA. Its China vs USA, UK, Australia, Japan, Probably South Korea, possibly Singapore and Indonesia. Not sure about France. My point is they need to field a navy that can numerically and qualitatively face such a combined alliance. Therefore every ship Australia, The UK, New Zealand build is something else that China have… Read more »
There is simply no way we, including the US, Aus, NZ, can outbuild China. They will become the foremost military in the world soon enough. Scary thought really.
It would take a colossal reversal and political will to claw back manufacturing on such a scale to reduce China’s financial muscle. The only way I can see that happening is by law, basically outlawing imports from China in a whole range of goods. Can you see that happening? I’m afraid I can’t.
We cannot defeat China using military or economic means. Their history is one of boom and bust. we have to insulate ourselves from that cycle. The alternative and preferable scenario would be for China to undergo some sort of internal morphing or transformation process and assume western culture. But with the CCP in charge that seems unlikely.
Prior to the outbreak of Covid 19 the Chinese economy was slowing when the world shut down which country didn’t and when every other countries economy nosedived who’s didn’t very iffy if you ask Joe Public and the resounding answer China
I’m hopeful the next generation of young Chinse will want a better deal from their leaders. Change often starts from within. Plenty of examples throughout history.
They’re too blinkered ,and the younger generation do not have the access to a fully open Internet like the West oh and they’ll too busy looking up at those LED Billboards very Hypnotising
You do realise that the level of poverty in China has fallen from approx. 80% to 20% of the population during the last 40 years? While there are more billionaires in China than the rest of the world combined? I have a feeling that there would be little appetite for any sort of regime or ideology change amongst Chinese society? These misguided and ignorant assessments of other societies and cultures, made by many in the west, are to blame for so many of our failures in foreign policy, Iraq and Afghanistan being cases in point, while the Malayan Emergency provides… Read more »
Many thanks for your reply I was just stating Internet access is governed by the Party , I would also suspect most of those millionaires are also Party members, and as for Afghanistan and Iraq 1 was nato ,the other was Bush and Blairs War on Terror , the Malayan Emergency was our own Empire driven insurgency, Mao inspired kill the landowners and those opposed too his teachings .Our answer was Hearts and minds , did the trick .Rounding up the natives and burning down their village doesn’t ask the yanks Allies great for Trade not great for so called… Read more »
The west on a war footing couldnt outbuild China in its normal production capacity.
Plus its not like they are short of man power to operate everything they build either.
Building things whilst under Stress ie could be camp workers which China probably uses normality the product is sub standard Quantity not Quality
Relevant to a point but at what number of attrition does the quality no longer become a factor?
20 shodily built ships firing on one well built vessel with better systems will only end up in one result.
Let’s hope it doesn’t come too that
Where would we put their Survivors
Lol, as if that was the realistic outcome.
As the Boys on the Sheff did , Sing “Always Look on the Bright side of Life” when all a round was burning
Simply has to be done- returning manufacturing from PRC & rebuilding better numbers to our military. Our leaders have sold us down the river allowing so much of our manufacturing industry to move to the far east simply & short sightedly so their few mega-rich can make more money. PRCs neighbors will do most of the containing, having responded by increasing their military budgets & programs long before we finally woke up to the threat.
I hope NZ starts being more robust before they’re subsumed by an expanding ambitious PRC.
I Agree Mr Bell and France can hold the towels IF they ever finish Sulking
Nope, And super Liberal NZ trying to be all inclusive and woke all the wile being best friends with China, a country with no morals and bought friends.…
it’s like the town Drunk being best friends with the Choir leader.
It’s all Rainbow Riches , I wonder if the Woke brigade on South Island have called for protests over the genocide of ORKs by Peter Jackson
They aren’t alone in courting China, we were doing so openly until quite recently. Despite all the bluster we still welcome their investment in many areas.
I’m not defending the NZ government, just pointing out that it isn’t black and white.
It seems NZ are a long way from joining their Australian cousins in that decision. Two very different mindsets at play.
I don’t really get their insistence that no nuclear sub can enter their waters, yet happily send their ships to exercise with the QE strike group that is escorted by an SSN. Rather odd line to take, they are either against nuke power or they aren’t.
Probably to do with Making sure 100% a Nuclear disaster type deal won’t ever happen in their waters.
And the russians haven’t exactly made nuclear subs look safe!! Quit the opposite in fact.And the yanks even lost one with loss of all crew..
And there’s russian nuclear submarines that were dumped into shallow waters reactors intact and are about to cause a huge nuclear disaster…
Fair points! Where did Russia sink their subs?
I believe you will find that the Russians de fuelled said reactors, before towing the vessels around to their Northern coast and ‘dumping’ some of them in the various inlets that predominate that part of the coastline.
Not that it’s an excuse, but that region is v sparsely populated, still an impending disaster in the making though.
Ah Radiation , very dangerous if New Zealand doesn’t want that good for them Now get rid of all your Xray machines
ANZACS, must be turning in their graves
I’m sure my Father is
Brave boys who lie on 3 continants gone but not Forgotten
Rob as a Kiwi, I believe the government needs to do more. They are slow to criticize the Chinese human right abuse. In particular the Uygher communities being held in what can be described as concentration camps.
Aussie also has (had) significant export to Chin but have at least stood up to them It matters to do the right thing
well put Wolf
The bully in the play ground ,doesn’t like it when the bullied get together
Slowly reduce their reliance on China.
Australia has done it quite quickly (well, largely have been forced to).
China are not a reliable partner. They will dump you whenever they see fit. To have 30% of your exports rely in them is not just insane, but severe negligence.
Ans MISS Ardean is in the all together sorry the ****** New Clothes when it comes to Defence And if She Closes her eyes she can’t be seen unlike the stretching Dragon
I agree with your observation Chris- bot on the Type 31 and the government’s head in the sand approach.
The frigate replacement decision won’t be made for a couple of years yet. They are due to retire in 2030/35. They have just had an upgrade. The whole extra $20b over 15 years was because of the Chinese military build-up. (that is over and above the defence budget which has now gone through 3 governments) So there is more to it. Basically gets SOPV, LPD, Herc C-130j-30, P-8’s, increasing the army size, replacing the current OPVs, replacing the Seasprites. Either replacing or upgrading the LAV’s, there will be other upgrades as well, like Comms (frigates are getting them soon) Upgrades… Read more »
The New Zealand armed forces but more importantly its people need to wake up and reinvest in defence. China is due North and a much bigger and developing threat than they care to realise.
Type 31 frigate New Zealand? Armed with Sea Ceptor, BAE guns and Norwegian anti ship missile would be a useful asset.
Add a torpedo defence system. Bow sonar and a decent ASW helicopter and they will be back into the viable navy league again.
They need at least 8 frigates and some larger deck helicopter capable vessels to patrol their large maritime EEZ
Now you’re talking…. even half of that plus a couple of long range diesel subs.
Fitting a bow sonar to a type 31 would be pointless, it wouldn’t detect anything. The type 31 does not have an acoustically quietened hull and so is incapable of being used in an advanced ASW role.
Actually mate it isnt pointless at all. Whilst the T31 isnt on the same level as a T26 (hence price difference), fitting it with a bow sonar would be very useful, you just have to accept that there will be limitations as to its effectiveness when compared with a T26. It would be much the same if they put a TA on a T31, still effective, just not as much as a T26. What we are really talking about here is detection ranges, what range will/can I detect that SSN at? The detection range will be greater for a T26,… Read more »
In peace knowing where someone else’s SSN isn’t an advantage, while in war the Type 31 would be long gone before the SSN got in range of its sonar.
Yes perhaps, the flip side is that the T31 might well be sunk before it was long gone by a SSN.
Broadly speaking, unless there is a known threat (SSN) in your area, the advantage is with the hunter not the hunted.
by long gone I meant sunk, me with the poor choice of words oops
I fear that their naval skills are all but dead. They can’t even run two friagtes properly and are more concerned that their ships are named after Maori things.
I read that New Zealand spends 1% of GDP on defence. This really isn’t enough to contribute properly. They seem to be cosying up to China as well which doesn’t bode well. Maybe the UK and Australia should offer some frgates and destroyers to be based there as well as some joint fighter aircraft in exchange for New Zealand increasing it’s defence budget to at least 2% of GDP (they can easily afford it). On this note the UK needs to up its game on defence and increase it to 3% of GDP as we are entering a new cold… Read more »
Why should Australia or the UK offer to base frigates in New Zealand? The Kiwi government took the contentious step of reducing their frigate force from 4 to 2. They have banned Nuclear vessels from their waters, and They announced a few days ago that the new Australian subs will not be welcome. They really need to upgrade their defence thinking/spending.
in Australia,, though it’s been lost in the headlines of the new submarine deal, the PM did announce that the defence budget has to grow (currently 2.1% gdp)
So if we come across a country that can’t be arsed to defend itself we should offer to do it for them ? I think you’d get a lot of takers and if you stuck enough cotton wool in your ears you wouldn’t hear them laughing their heads off !
Quite correct Dave we’ll supply defence for Woke Zealand under MISS Ardern she will supply lots of coloured BUNTING and hugs .
No one in NZ asking anyone else to defend and I seriously doubt we will ever need to. If anything I believe it is NZ which has helped other nations to defend themselves! Of course, in doing so NZ is also defending their interests, but that is the whole reason behind why the US and othwrs spend more on defence then anyone else and that’s because they have more to lose.
The way PRC hacks our resources, issues threats, rips up treaties, steals our data & secrets, it’s been more than “cold” war quite a while.
it is about 1.5% standard budget but that doesn’t count the $20 billion dollars over 15 years which is over and above or extra to the defence budget.
It not just as easy to say 2%. Which is an arbitrary number they came up with for NATO.
http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/news/defence/3582-budget-vs-budget
typo – I meant 1.1 -1.2%
It must be the only thing left they havnt sold to China. Anyway,the RN should be in the dover straits,we’re being invaded by people from france
That is Border Force’s job. Give them the tools to do their job. However that particular issue won’t cease all the time we are seen as a soft target for asylum.
I’ll join you in a prayer that a tragedy on the French side of the Channel will wake those frogs up too do the job we’ve paid for
RNZN’s two ANZAC class frigates are getting a bit long in the tooth. Maybe we could market T26, T31 or T32 to them. Be great to have another great Commonwealth friend operating common systems.
If we had a spare frigate (we don’t but if we did) it would be great to gift NZ a T31 called Achilles in gratitude for the River Plate.
If you gifted a frigate to New Zealand, all they would do is reduce their requirement to one new build to replace the Anzac’s…
If not scrap the plan for 2.
Not if you named the Class of Frigates after Ms Arden although vanity would mean they wouldn’t be gray in colour 🌈🌈🌈🌈much more inclusive
Thank you Ron, however we Kiwis need to shoulder our share of the burden and pay our way. 0.9%gdp on defence just won’t cut the mustard.
With Indonesia buying now two T31 type ships there will be production line in SE Asia region. This might be an opportunity for NZ to co-produce, share costs… and acquire something sooner… than too later… if they wish.
If T32 takes on the form of a modernized Absalon class, it would be a perfect fit for NZ. Realistically could be used to move man and machine to nearby islands for HADR, which is where they will be used most, but still a proper frigate.
The ANZAC’s have just been upgraded and are due to be replaced around 2030-35. This HMNZS Te kaha first deployment since the upgrade. Te Mana is due back in a month or so… (ish) maybe 2 but by years end.
http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/news/defence/3512-te-kaha-before-after-refit
We can’t even interest them in a single type 31.
Their government really are pathetic.
New Zealand is nothing more than a freeloader expecting others to look after their area of interest, Adern should’ve been told to do one
Martyn, as a new Zealander , I completely agree with your comments!
That’s what Wokism is about all about and Ardern is on the bandwagon next it will be getting kiwi’s (New Zealanders ) to hold hands and form a ring round the islands as the first line of Defence that should stop aggrression from China
Obviously Jacinda Ardern is unaware that a nuclear-powered attack submarine forms part of the carrier strike group that the NZ naval vessels are joining.
Yes, she is aware but they are not in our waters?… She was only quoting “NZ law” it is anti or “Nuclear Free” policy that is 35 years old. She can’t change it just like that… To be fair the majority of Kiwi’s don’t (and didn’t when the policy was passed) care about nuclear-powered vessels it is more the nuclear weapons they are against however the policy covers powered vessels as well… The policy came about when the French were testing nukes in our back yard, The french Bombed the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland harbour and it got out of… Read more »
Damn you’ve just let the Cat out of the Bag she’ll know now and call them back inside and tell them that their no longer allowed too play with us
Good. Toook them far too long, but at least they have.
They need to get their military together though. Two frigates, with problems, are an absolute joke. As is their closeness to China and their refusal to properly stand up to them.
What problems did the frigates have? They have just completed sea trials after completing their upgrades. As well as conducting RAS trials with the new tanker HMNZS Aotearoa. As well as to get the crew back up to speed with the new systems.
http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/news/defence/3512-te-kaha-before-after-refit
New Zealand has a frigate?
2 Anzac class frigates.
Undergoing modernisation by Lockheed Martin in Canada I believe…the first one is done and now has ceptor
HMNZS Te Kaha finished your upgrades december 2020 and has been doing sea trials since as well as conducting RAS trials for the new tanker HMNZS Aotearoa. Basically this is the first deployment since the upgrades.
http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/news/defence/3512-te-kaha-before-after-refit
I’ll give the Kiwis something, 39 yrs ago they did offer HMNZ Canterbury as gulf support whilst the RN took on the Argies, Ardern was probably at junior school then drawing rainbows
To be fair the original offer was to be part of the task group … however, the UK turned it down but then said you could replace our frigate on the Indian ocean patrol so we can send them to the task group. As far as I know but can’t confirm it, there was offer of troops as well including NZSAS and which was also turned down…
Would they be willing under MISS Ardern ?
I just don’t understand the differing mentalities across the anglosphere. The US and UK go toe to toe with big adversaries like Russia and China. RN fearless in the Black Sea and SCS, US dropping JDAMS on ruskie mercenaries in Syria.. Yet countries like NZ and lesser extent CAN/AUS are scared sh*tless of saying words that could upset a Chinese newspaper editor.
Grow a pair or get out of the way.
Unfair. Countries like NZ could back UK/US up 100% but when push comes to shove are we going to send in the fleet to protect NZ? No and they know, we know it and the Chinese know it. NZ is just doing the sensible thing and not paddling out of their depth, we would do the same.