The Ministry of Defence has revealed that not a single individual in the military’s most senior three ranks identify as Black, Asian or Minority ethnicity.
In information exclusively obtained by the UK Defence Journal, the MoD stated:
“The highest NATO rank of a member of the UK Regular Armed Forces who declares a BAME ethnicity as at 1 October 2018 is OF-6”
Countries within NATO have a standardised system of ranks to ensure simplicity. In the United Kingdom ‘OF6’ (OF being an abbreviation of Officer) is equal to a Brigadier in the British Army, a Commodore in the Royal Navy, and an Air Commodore in the Royal Air Force.
In October 2018, the MoD released figures showing just 6.5% of the total intake into the Armed Forces for the previous 12 months were of Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME). The Ministry of Defence’s target is for 10% of the yearly intake to be BAME by 2020.
In 2015, the then Defence Secretary Michael Fallon stated: “I want at least 10 per cent of our new recruits to come from a black, Asian and minority ethnic background. This isn’t about tokenism it is about attracting the brightest and best.”
“Although 12 per cent of Britain’s workforce are members of an ethnic minority they only make up 7 per cent of our armed forces. That’s not good enough”
Michael Fallon, Previous Defence Secretary, speaking in 2015
The Royal Air Force is the least diverse, with just 2.4% of their personnel identifying as BAME. By comparison, roughly 13% of the UK’s population is of BAME background.
Whilst diversity in the Armed Forces is improving, this is not reflected in the number of officers from ethnic minorities. In October 2018, 2.5% of officer were from ethnic minorities, a rise of just 0.1% since April 2012.
Chief of the Defence Staff General Sir Nick Carter has previously stated he wants the Armed Forces to have a “culture of inclusivity”.
Diversity is at the heart of the British Army. We welcome people from all backgrounds. Whatever your gender, race, ethnic origin or religious belief, there is a place for you in the Army. See what we stand for: https://t.co/2w1OHmWobi#ArmyJobs pic.twitter.com/SEk8v5TuiG
— Army Jobs (@armyjobs) March 20, 2019
“The admission is a shocking reflection on the Armed Forces, which often states that it prides itself on diversity.”
The British Armed Forces deserve better than that kind of slur. I can imagine they have done more and for longer than almost any other British institution to advance the interests of all ranks whatever; I knew one from a very disadvantaged background who left as an R.S.M. We must acknowledge leadership is beyond colour and class. It takes a special kind of personality. I have respect for those who stood aside when they realised they did not want the responsibility. It is worth recalling that Britain de-colonised only in recent decades. Our minorities are fairly new and very small in numbers. Give it time and by all means encourage. This kind of report does not.
Couldnt agree more.
This sort of thing is pathetic.
There will come a time when some of these ‘minorities’ will get their chance, but that so called report is a slur on our military.
Right Andrew, why would the UK Defence Journal want to slur the military, exactly?
‘There will come a time when some of these ‘minorities’ will get their chance,’
Are you for real?
The armed forces should reflect the society that pays for them and for whom they serve. Now.
If the views of the majority of denizens of this military forum are any indication, the armed forces suffer from institutional racism and discrimination due to nostalgia for Empire, illegal (unwinnable) wars and right wing politico-cultural values.
From Prince Harry calling a fellow recruit ‘our little Paki friend’ to soldiers shooting at posters of Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn through to sexual assault on female soldiers, the armed forces have shown themselves to be quite a dangerous place if you’re not while, male and right wing.
I’m sorry to say it, but what a perfectly stupid reply.
You have given nothing to the discussion at all.
NOBODY needs a ‘hands up’, NOBODY.
If you think otherwise then what can i say.
Nobody here thinks affirmative action is good. Nobody here is suggesting outright racism.
A job given is based on ability.
You are making a bold claim by insinuation…can you back that up? No, no you cant
Token appointments mean nothing.
In the world of the military it means absolutely everythinh
Iqbal, You need to go and re read the Sexual Assault Thread, It was mostly Male on Male.
And? So what.
The millitary isnt a game, and affermative action is incredibly divisive, terrible for moral and can be bloody dangerous.
What if the ‘diverse’ ones either (a) do not want higher rankings to this level, or (b) are simply not good enough or served long enough to be one?!
People should only be considered for these roles/posistions based purely on merit and experience, not on skin colour nor where their bloody grandparents came from.
We need to recruit people based on their skill and ability not their ethnicity! We shouldn’t be working towards a 10% Quota just for the sake of being inclusive! Its the bloody military, does that mean other well meaning majority people are being excluded from certain roles because of this! We shouldn’t target these specific people and give them the advantage, if they aren’t as good as an equivelent white candidate at the recruiting office, then it should go to the best person!
You sound as if you come out of Mississippi c1950. As we all know there was a de facto ‘colour bar’ in the officer corp through to the 70s which was part of the endemic racism and white superiority that BAME believes still persists to this day that’s why the only black recruits are from Africa or the Caribbean.
But let’s face it no one black or white with any intelligence joins the armed forces today unless they’re unemployable or from Scotland Wales or NI. To be blunt unless you make it into the Signals Reg chances are you’re quite thick.However even white chavs have now cottoned on that joining the modern armed forces only equips you for work as a lorry driver or security guard when you leave and that’s only provided you don’t have PTSD or a missing leg. What a career eh?
Identity politics is best ignored, as are it’s adherents. Pandering to them will lose people their lives in this arena and those in power should be ashamed, if they were capable of that emotion.
This is a pretty deep issue and internet comments are probably not the best place for its discussion but the lack of diversity in the senior command of the British army is of course related to the lack of diversity in the recruitment of officers. OTCs and public school recruitment plus an unhealthy dose of nepotism does not lead to a diverse officers corps. Socially our country has moved beyond the old fashioned nature of the officers mess. To put it simply our best and brightest don’t just come from the playing fields of Eton but from council estates in Birmingham, Sheffield and Glasgow too.
Not really that deep at all as this should be a non issue.
87% of the UK is white, therefore the overwhelming majority of the armed forces would be white, and then have a small number of mixed race/ethnicity.
Now, seeing as the MOD are always looking for the very finest men and women, it is no surprise there isnt this made up token allotment for ‘people of colour’ as they are a minority group, half of which are women and the majority of these groups do not enter into service.
How many ‘white’ people have not made it either?
And this entire platform is designed for people to engage in rational discussion, so yes, this does need to be talked about.
I would rather have an incredibly gifted General regardless of ‘colour’. We all do.
Nobody would want a useless one given a job purely because of their skin tone or ethnic background.
You saying we have moved on from Eton is something that happened decades ago, but as i said above, the UK has 87% white population, so once again the amount of ‘Etonians’ would always be greater than minorities, those who are a minority or white would also be the minority of their own ethnic group.
Affermative action is terrible, the military should always choose the finest, this idea of token quotas is awful.
I agree with an most of what you say but perhaps I did not make my point very clearly. The armed forces deserve the best people for the job regardless of race, colour, religion, economic circumstances etc. I do not believe that current recruitment reflects that. It is a system where you need to fit a mould regardless of your ability. White working class Geordies fit that mould about as well as black kids from Croydon. I do not agree with quotas but for our armed forces to get the personal they deserve I believe something needs to change. Disproportionately low numbers of minorities especially amongst officers is just a symptom of a bigger issue. That is what I mean by saying it is a deep issue.
At no point did I suggest that this should not be talked about but I believe an internet comments section is not the best place for a discussion such as this. Anything even remotely involving race seems to attract crazies like moths to a flame (to be clear I am not aiming that comment at you). Hopefully I am wrong about that but lets see where the comments go.
And i also agree with most of what you say too. But having quotas for minorities for anything is ridiculous.
The military is open to everyone, and everyone has the opportunity to further their career on merit.
Being a minority should not give you a leg up in any field. Yet this is exactly what is happening, and this is what will happen if left unchecked. The fact there are so few is a reflection on just how high the standards must be. As i said before, i would want the finest First Sea Lord should be exactly that, and not some quota filled token. This could be anyone, just as long as they are ‘diverse’ enough to make the tick mark.
The ‘disporprotionality’ you talk about is exactly where it should be, 12% are ‘ethnic/minority’, out of those a tiny fraction would apply, and maybe all of those that did are not good enough. As i said above, there would be a huge amount, maybe 99% of whites that never made it either. This is not about ‘reflecting’ the popluation, this is about who is the best to do the job. If a black person becomes the head of the air force…great. Who cares? Because if the standards to get there are true to their very core then bully for him/her.
This entire affermative action, almost race baiting, is disgraceful. Why ‘must’ there be ‘ethnic’ leadership in our military? If they are not good enough or never join then of course there wont be any. Could you imagine the embarassment for one of these fine servicemen or women who get the job purely on their skin colour? They would not like the fact they got the job because they were a ‘token’. They would want that job knowing they were the very best and that their peers agree.
And i agree, online chats on this will bring out some morons, but open debate and civility is in short supply these days as the thought police are hovering around.
Lets all talk openly, and lets not let ‘feels’ and ‘i’m offended’ dictate what we can and cannot discuss?
I am glad we are having a civil conversation ?. I agree with the principles of everything you have just said. For me this is where it becomes difficult to explain my opinion but here goes. Some things should trump our principles for the greater good of society as a whole. I believe integration and inclusion are something we should be actively pushing. The benefits of successful integration of minorities are greater than the cost of implementation in my opinion. I could very easily be wrong. I do not like quotas but I am not sure of another quantifiable solution to avoid prejudice against minorities. An imperfect solution for an imperfect world. Cheers for a civil discussion?
Always a pleasure to talk with civility, and always good to have it recipricated.
I do understand what you are saying, but having ‘representation’ for the sake of it is not a good idea, esp in our military.
The Gurkhas are some of the most distinguished and fearsome British soldier out their, i havent heard them crying for ‘representation’. They put the fear of god into any enemy. They are picked purely on merit. They are the very best of British, and i salute everyone of them for their outstanding bravery and intelligence.
There is absolutely no need to even mention if a ‘black’ person becomes ‘the first’. Nobody cares, not even them. That would be a disservice to the West Indian fighter crews of WW2, the Fijian, Samoan, Maori, African and Indians that died for the British in many wars.
Identity politics is an utter disgrace, the military must only choose the very finest, and i dont care who it is, where their ancestors came from or what god they believe in. They should ONLY be picked on their ability. The very people fighting to protect us do so not because of their colour, but because they are British or have a strong allegiance to it.
I remember a very poignant quote:-
“If you want to stop ‘racism’, stop talking about about ‘race’.
I will stop calling you a Jewish man, and you will stop calling me a black man”
Morgan Freeman.
There is absolutely no room for identity politics in the military (or anywhere in my opinion), you get the big job IF you have proved yourself. That should be all there is to it.
As always i enjoy civil discussions, even if we do not always agree.
?
Your opposition to the idea of service personnel from ethnic minorities ‘getting a leg up’ is both valid but, at the same time misses the point. I fully agree a person should not be promoted on the basis of their skin colour but why do you appear to think greater representation of ethnic minorities in senior ranks would only come about as a result of affirmative action/positive discrimination? Are you unwilling to consider the possibility that low representation at the present time may be because those from ethnic minorities are unduly disadvantaged or, in some cases, unfairly discriminated against? This is quite possibly one explanation (undoubtedly one of many in a complex matter) why there is low representation at the moment and why some politicians, senior commanders and ordinary citizens think the issue needs examination and action. Calling for representation more reflective of overall population figures is but a simple (and admittedly flawed) way to push forward this action.
I do not think greater representation would only come about through affermative action at all, and to suggest that is my thinking is missing my point wholly.
I am saying that no one should be given that advantage. And once read again, my reply has stated multiple times that i wouldnt care who got the job as long as they are the best for it. If that happens to be an ‘ethnic’ person, who cares.
What you have suggested is that outright racism could be a factor, and if so i would be outraged to find that out, and we would stand against it both. But i do not believe that to be the case at all, it is much more likely, as i have said many times, that these posistions have already been filled by the best candidates, and at this time no ‘ethnic’ candidate is better. The UK military is mostly white, from a mostly white population, and out of those only a tiny, tiny fraction either are experienced, good enough or suitable for those roles. So, 99% of them do not get the job either. It is no surprise then that the very small numbers (comparatively) of ‘ethnic’ military peoples have not got the job because they clearly arent the best candidates.
I am for the very best British person to get the job, and i am sure one day that someone will be ‘ethnic’, but only as long as they are the best of the best for those roles and not because of their skin colour.
My son was desperate to join the Royal Navy. He failed the AIB, but NO ONE came back to him for feedback, NO ONE contacted him full stop. He has now given up and will be studying Physics at Oxford University and was offered a full leadership scholarship by a very well know US company after passing an selection process far more challenging than the AIB. I’m not sure what leadership criteria the Royal Navy looks for but suspect that the expectations of a 17 year old would be similar to those expected by a private enterprise. A US company that has never offered a scholarship to a non USA student, gave him one because of his leadership potential. My son was the only state school educated person at the AIB. My son is ethnic. I’ve seen him go from having respect and pride in our forces to have no opinion whatsoever. He didn’t expect any preferential treatment, but he did expect the courtesy of a follow up and feedback, which he now understands is supposed to be the standard process. Based on this treatment, how does the Royal Navy expect to attract the best?
Outside of the Guards and Cavalry, there is widespread induction of officer applicants from State schools and this has been the case for many years. I commissioned from a lower middle class family into REME from the largest Comprehensive school in the country in 1975 and I was not in a minority. In recent years more applicants have come from working class families. I would think the minority come from public schools outside the Guards, Cavalry and the most post of the Line Infantry battalions.
I’m not a fan of this PC percentages stuff.
Do ethnic minorities even want to join the military in the numbers desired?
If they are good enough colour is irrelevant so I don’t see why not unless their heart is not with the country in which case they won’t join anyway.
Look at the quality of the Gurkhas. Numbers applying far exceed places available.
Has there been any comparison with other NATO members?
From what I’ve seen, especially of Asian immigrants in the USA, they really don’t see the military as a means of succeeding. For them, education, and a steady job in a respected field(doctors, engineers, teachers, etc.) is how you achieve that success.
The kind of pride and loyalty of citizenship that would prompt a person to join a branch of the military is usually found in some of the 1st generation, and more of the 2nd and later generations of immigrants. That ingrained cultural aspect of immigrants is overcome in later generations as the newer generations finds more to identify with their adopted country than the country their forefathers came from.
The Gurkhas are an exception. For them, it is now a part of their culture to strive to join the British Army.
As a second generation British Muslim from the Indian subcontinent, I can confirm that certain prestige career paths you mention are favoured over the armed forces. This is particularly true for our parents generation. It’s part of the immigrant outlook regardless of country of origin to have ‘made it’.
Britain has made huge strides in integrating diverse BAME groups into sectors as far and wide as the civil service, media and the teaching profession. The armed forces are an outlier. This is partly because the army is no longer seen as a prestige employer eg. because of the breakdown of the forces covenant, participation in illegal forever wars like Iraq and Afghanistan (where some BAME citizens originate from) and the FACT the army uses and abandons personnel after their service as evidenced by the significant numbers of homeless forces personnel on our streets in London. You can tell the ones that are ex forces from tattoos with unit insignia and bits of uniform they continue to don. Finally, service in the armed forces involves significant time away from family, this is difficult with communities were the joint-family system and its attendant obligations holds sway. In some of our BAME groups 3 generations still sit down to dinner together.
Questions of ‘loyalty’ are not a major reason for BAME communities relative lack of representation compared to the above factors. People will of course point to 900 British Muslims going out to Syria to fight for ISIS and other groups. However, they represent a statistically insignificant (though still worrying) 0.032% (900 out of 2,786,000 British Muslims according to the 2011 census). And their reasons for going out there can range from wanting to create a Theocratic Caliphate to mental illness, evading the law for crimes committed through to a naïve belief they would be materially better off in Syria. Most of these people would in any case fail the rigorous fitness, disciplinary and mental health criteria to join the forces. ISIS let anyone in. Although not exactly the same thing, it can be argued that there are more of British Jews who go out to volunteer with the IDF than join the British armed forces too.
Btw, the Ghurkas are recruited from a third world country and are eager to join as much from reasons of economic gain/security as any sort of fellow feeling or loyalty toward Britain. This was clearly evident in the Joanna Lumley campaign for immigration status changes for Ghurkas.
I wonder how many OF6 and above came from a working class background.
I think that you’re more likely to move up the ranks if you’re a Giles or a Rupert than if you are a Kevin or a Shazza.
Iqbal’s and Arjun’s are unlikely to even be at the races.
Wrong, as over 55% of new entrants to Sandhursts between 2017-2018 came from state schools. Oh dear, wrong again Iqi. Damn this military subject matter is getting hard for your tiny never served, know nothing about the military brain isn’t it son. You are getting yourself confused with the high percentage of Guards Divison (look it up as I am sure you have no clue) Officers who take pride in having a family connection throughout history, in their respective Regiments, and who do have a private education. If you need any more advice pal maybe ask those who have spent a lifetime serving. Other than that just make it up son, you do that very well.
You are right. Public school entrants into the officer Corps have been in the minority for many years. The Guards, Cavalry and the poshest of the line Infantry continue to favour Public school entrants, though. Many working class applicants in recent years too.
Good point. In my Sandhurst platoon in 1975 there were 2 boys from working class families. Now, it would probably be at least 25 per cent, but I don’t have the stats. However, that is in the formative years. OF-6 officers would rarely be working class, although I knew of one Brigadier who was – he had been in my Sandhurst platoon!
Total and utter horse? no wonder things are as bad as they are when a faceless elite of globalists promote non stories and ? like this. I couldn’t give a ???? what colour they are as long as they are the best people for the job. Would anyone want to be operated on for heart surgery if the surgeon doing the op was only in that job cos he was part of a quota for the sake of diversity or would you get on a plane knowing the only reason the pilot was there was they were given the job due to being the right colour ? No would you chuff ?? Jobs based on ones ability to do the job. Britain went down the toilet ? with the rest of western civilisation long ago and this is just another example of the poison that is diversity ???
My place of work has similar. A PC graduate who’s a manager wants 20% of the intake for my role ethnic, female, or disabled.
Does that mean perfectly able and qualified applicants are rejected at the interview stage because of this quota, simply for being white?
I’ve read of this nonsense with the Police and the BBC.
Look at the qualities of people, not the colour of their skin or their gender.
Well ethnic, female or disabled is more than 50% of the population so 20% is not that big an ask. I apologise, flippant comments aside quotas are not a great idea but I am not sure what other quantifiable methods there are to avoid prejudice. I think we agree that there is no place for prejudice in the modern work place. I don’t like quotas but they are a simple solution to a difficult problem.
Do you honestly believe that none of the white, able-bodied males employed in all manner of roles in our society don’t owe their positions, at least in part, to being white, able-bodied and male? Is it beyond comprehension that some of those white, able-bodied men are hopeless in their roles but remain in them without justification and that there may be people who are non-white, disabled or female (or any combination of the above) who might deserve those roles much more but have not been given the opportunity?
I’m not suggesting positive discrimination may not result in some injustices to white, able-bodied men, that IS a possibility/probability, but I dislike seeing an unwillingness to acknowledge that those from minorities (in whatever context) have suffered a great deal of injustice due to negative discrimination and that positive discrimination, despite its many flaws, is one (crude) way to address this position.
Not surprising really, when you look at it logically.
To be OF6 or higher you’d realistically have to have been a commissioned officer for what, 25 years on average? 30 maybe? More?
Let’s say 30 for the sake of argument. So that turns to clock back to 1989. Back then, the ethnic mix in Britain wasn’t what it is now. The amount of BAME people wasn’t anywhere near what it is now. Those numbers would have likely been reflected in the number of BAME recruits joining the military at the time.
Out of those, many were from poorer working class parts of the country, and therefore the vast majority joining the armed forces would have joined as enlisted ranks. Vastly fewer would have become officers either from the outset or late commission.
What percentage of officers even reach OF6 level? A very small percentage I’d be willing to bet. So it stands to reason that if only a tiny fraction of officers reach that level, and only a tiny percentage of officers joining up in the late 80s or early 90s were black or ethnic minority, it stands to reason that it’s unlikely to have any BAME senior officers now.
Those numbers would increase organically without any PC interference in time just by virtue of the ethnic mix of the UK being more diverse than years to come.
The way to encourage a more diverse senior officer corps future is to attract more people to join up now.
Though I don’t care if they’re white, black, Asian etc… just more people, regardless of race!
Boo bloody hoo. Quality is the only important thing and race should have no bearing whatsoever either way
Let me guess, you’re white?
There should be quotas for a time. When there is a level playing field, the army has reformed its customs and recruitment practices and the gap has become less apparent in terms of numbers, we can do away with it.
Let me quess, your a troll? One who likes to presume they know what is going on. You have absolutly no clue about British Army customs and recruitment, as you have never served and just like to troll various websites as you are quite sad.
I wholly disagree with quotas. Giving preferential treatment to any one group of people as positive discrimination is still negative discrimination to other people.
In essence it’s promoting somebody because they are BAME and not for their talents or abilities. How do you think other people around them would feel, knowing that they were passed up for promotion purely because they are white and the person chosen is black or Asian.
Moreover how do you think that same black or Asian officer would feel, knowing that they weren’t promoted on the basis of merit but because of the colour of their skin and to tick a box. I’d imagine they’d be annoyed at it. I would be if I was promoted purely to tick a box.
No. The best way to increase diversity in the upper echelons of the armed forces is for recruiters to target those groups; send armed forces careers officers into schools in large cities like London, Birmingham etc where there is much more of an ethnic mix.
Love how so many Europeans call America racist yet America has led the way in integrating different races into all it’s military ranks and did so many, many decades ago. Looks like the old boys still run the British military.
Why should it matter how a person identifys. Everyone should be given the same opportunitys as any one else and those best suited to a job should get it. Having a quator for “diversity” is just legalising racism.
I think the reason for the quota is to ensure the armed forces start to reflect society, then when people of colour feel more inclined to join up you can purely deal with it on ability. At the moment not enough people of colour are even applying.
Nothing is stopping minoritys from joining. If they chose for what ever reason to not join that the individuals problem and theirs alone. Also I’m not talking about advertising hear, if you want to advertise to minoritys great all adds need a target. I’m talking about given a person a job who’s only qualification is the colour of their skin or the gender to which they are attracted.
Meant to put this here, not in a reply.
We need to recruit people based on their skill and ability not their ethnicity! We shouldn’t be working towards a 10% Quota just for the sake of being inclusive! Its the bloody military, does that mean other well meaning majority people are being excluded from certain roles because of this! We shouldn’t target these specific people and give them the advantage, if they aren’t as good as an equivelent white candidate at the recruiting office, then it should go to the best person!
Also, I though there a Sikh Admiral or Commodore??? I could be wrong though.
I heard there was a left-handed albino transgendered bisexual admiral. Seriously, what does it matter? Do we want qualified people regardless of their statistics or not?
If they are good enough to do the job, who gives a f@#k apart from the idiots in Westminster!!
It shouldnt matter at all! It’s only an issue if we make it an issue.
There was a Asian Muslim Admiral one or 2 years ago.
Yawn.
Does it sound like a completely stupid idea? Yes, it does.
If we can easily see how stupid and harmful affirmative action is, why would we assume that genius-tier… leaders… are doing this on accident?
“By way of deception, thou shalt do war.”
I can’t help feeling many have missed the point. The armed forces, like the the police, should reflect the society it serves in order to make the whole country feel like they are being represented and valued. If this was the case, and senior ranks reflected society at large, you would attract more people of colour to apply which would help with recruitment numbers and quality.
No one is suggesting anything other than entrants and promotions based on ability, but you cannot just assume everyone will be treated the same. If they are then how can we explain the lack of BAME representation in senior ranks? There seems to be glass ceiling so it is important to look at the reasons why, not simply say it shouldn’t matter, because it obliviously does, otherwise we wouldn’t need to be having these conversations at all.
Because there’s no one of BAME (what ever that means) who has qualified for the role. Simply because most senior officers are white males since only recently have females and homesexuals been allowed in to the same role. Along with the fact most of the country is white. However, as the country begins to have more ethnicity in it and as more time passes. Those previously unable to join will begin to clime the ranks as everyone else had to and will one day be at the top.
It’s a numbers game as I said in an earlier post.
To reach OF6 level you’d have had to be a military officer for probably close to 30 years. So the highest ranks, those who’ve been in for that 30 years or more, are ethnically reflective of the time when they joined up, in this case around 1989 or so.
Today ethnic minority accounts for around 12% of UK demographic. Back in 1989 that was probably more like 5%.
So say those numbers are reflected in the armed forces in 1989: if 5% of officers then were BAME and only around 5% of all officers reach OF6 level ranks, then statistically there’s very little chance of a BAME officer reaching it. Not racism, just numbers.
Today there is much more of an ethnic mix joining the forces than ever before, but those numbers won’t translate into senior command level for 20-30 years purely because that’s how long it take to reach those ranks.
It would be an injustice to fast-track young BAME officers purely because of their skin colour to fill senior ranks. If nothing else the lack of experience would leave them woefully underprepared for those roles and in conflict that risks lives.
We are a vastly majority White Nation!.. Now I see why the government wanted all the imigration!
One we’ve an ageing population.
And two New Labour hoped they’d vote Labour.
It makes sense that if there is recruitment drive aimed at minorities, that there will be a delay before they reach the highest ranks of a few decades at least.
This is some serious drivel.
If 13% of the general population are from a black, Asian or mixed race ethnic background, and the armed forces are only drawing 6.5% of their recruits from a similar background, then there’s a wider pool of talent that they haven’t tapped yet, most likely because current recruitment campaigns aren’t engaging them, and we really should aim to reach out across all groups to ensure we are really getting the best, not just the best that turned up because they happened to see the poster.
That said, given all the issues with retention and recruitment over the last 9 years, are they that surprised they haven’t boosted BAME intake?? They should be happy they’ve managed to maintain the status quo!
Also, armed forces recruitment has traditionally relied on military families for its numbers, both at officer level and in the ranks. People who join typically have first hand knowledge and experience of the military already through a serving member of their family. And as the UK population has historically been made up of a higher proportion of white British and Irish people, armed forces recruitment within the UK (and therefore excluding recruitment to the old Empire and Commonwealth units, the British Indian Army, Navy and Air Force etc) has typically drawn more from white British and Irish families than people of black, Asian or mixed race background. This was particularly the case with the regimental system in the Army, but was also prevalent with the Navy naturally having more of a connection with the communities that were home to naval bases like Portsmouth, Plymouth etc. versus some town in the Midlands miles from the coast. That being said, the current RN campaign is clearly trying to reach out to people from across the country who perhaps would not have previously thought of a career in the Navy, and according to savetheroyalnavy.org, seems to be succeeding better than the Army’s “calling all snowflakes” recruitment strategy.
On one hand, it’s strange that the RAF has a disproportionately low intake of BAME recruits, especially as it is the youngest, flashiest service and isn’t historically tied to regional recruitment. However I wonder whether they have struggled because they have a higher intake of university educated recruits than the other services? And as universities are also not meeting their targets for students from BAME backgrounds, that would mean BAME recruits to the RAF would be a minority of a minority. Difficult to prove that though as it is hard to find a breakdown of Armed Forces recruitment by educational attainment upon entry.
Where is Iqbal the troll, he is missing a good subject to froth about here? Iqbaaaaaaaaaaal son, where are you? There’s a subject here you know nothing about which needs your attention!
Whatever happened to ability and not caring about the color of someone’s skin? There is no basis whatsoever for quotas. I don’t care whether you call it “positive discrimination” or “affirmative action” it is the racism of low expectations dressed up in politically correct language.
As for the Armed Forces “must be representative”? The Military must be efficient and combat effective. What it should never be is a sociology experiment. That is how you end up sending “we regret to inform you” letters. The Military’s job in regards to personnel is train them to be the best in peace, effectively lead them in war, and provide for them on retirement. That is all.
If someone can’t take orders due to having a commanding officer of a different skin color they are not capable of service much less deserving of an affirmative action policy.
Just a point…how do they know that no minority groups are not in senior positions. What about gay officers that have not come out for some reason. Also, it isn’t always obvious when someone has a multi-racial background!
If i stop visiting this site it will be because of articles like this.
Goodbye.
I won’t waffle on but just want to say that this sort of chuff is only debated and discussed at very senior level, and political levels. The boys and girls on the ground don’t give monkeys toss what colour their immidiate boss/mate/oppo is. Their only concern is that they are professional, trained and have their soldiers ( and presume sailors/airmens) interests at heart.
Yes many people of a black heritage don’t think the military is a career for them, and due to certain ingrained social issues, will never want to join the military. In an ideal world all public services should represent the people it serves, but alas we don’t live in a perfect world. Many of my black soldiers have said how hard it had been to join the army, in respect to their famailies and friends perceptions of the army. Yet others have said that their parents have fully supported them in their endeavour.
The Army ( I can only speak of the army due to experience) are very very good at ensuring everyone is treated equal (equally badly on occasion but that’s another matter lol) and ensuring different peoples faith, religions, needs and wants are respected. And I can confirm to you that the vast majority of Black and Ethnic soldiers would never want to be promoted as a token gesture, and would not expect to be. They are professional, like all others, and as colour goes, their colour is the same as everyone elses, that being Multi Terrain Pattern!
Aside from the information obtained by ukdefencejournal on the lack of BAME senior ranks, the article refers to more general published MoD information. I tracked this down as the UK armed forces biannual diversity statistics. Taking figures for the Army and looking back at periods of 6 months ending 31 Mar 17, 30 Sep 17, 31 Mar 18, and 30 Sep 18 the BAME intake was:
10.4%, 14.9%, 11.7%, 7.4%.
The Army has been hitting that 10% target, although for officers the numbers are:
4.1%, 4.5%, 3.6%, 2.0%.
Looking slightly wider, the total Army intakes for the periods were:
8,290 7,440 7,220 6,720
Please, UK, don’t fall further for that “diversity for diversity’s sake” crap that’s hamstringing us here in the States. In science, education, engineering, medicine, manufacturing, the military, firefighting, and everything else that doesn’t involve porn, it must always be qualifications over gender and race.
I am very late to this discussion, I have read every one of the comments, and I openly admit I am saddened and disillusioned.
The report correctly reports on the state of recruitment, and the failure to attain targets. Please tell me if I am wrong, but nowhere does it state that quotas are required or have been set, or any such suggestion of such. Kethdwat made a statement about how quotas would be wrong, and broadly I would support that unless there was a much more strong and urgent case for it’s introduction.
In so many replies that followed, so many commentators strongly to reject quotas. You have missed the point. Not one of you have stated or suggested what positively can be done to increase BAME recruitment to the military. So many of you have assumed that BAME recruitment means the worst recruits, that in itself is a form of racism. Now ask yourselves, what person of BAME background (for those of you that don’t know, it stands for Black and Minority Ethnic – a clumsy and socio-political description that stinks, but there we are), would join the forces if at every opportunity some wag states “you are only here because you are…” Guess what, that leads to having to work twice as hard to gain respect.
At the beginning of GW1, an American General, 4 star, head of all coalition forces, made appearences on our media commenting on military intentions and actions. The UK media and public reaction? Why haven’t we got a black general? That was 29 years ago, and we are no further forward.
Ask yourselves this question. What would attract anyone from a BAME background to the forces, when there are so many alternative careers on thier doorsteps, especially for graduates. Good rates of pay, opprotunities to train and learn more, progression, and home every evening to your family and friends. See how many Teachers, Lawyers, Finance professionals, medical professionals, the list goes on. Now, when you look at forces, you seem entrenched in the past, despite the many comments on here about having worked with Fijians, Samoans and Gurhkas. I would suggest there is to little to attract them, and too much elsewhere. The quality issue has no argument, whilst the numbers may not be high, there are many BAME students and graduates with potential to serve in the forces up to QF6. And if Airborne wants to state I am a troll making up my comments, I have been there, done that, at the highest level of recruitment.
The recruitment competition needs to lead good people to the front door, everything else is up to them.