HMS Anson, an Astute-class nuclear-powered attack submarine, has arrived at her new home port at Faslane near Glasgow.,
The conventionally armed submarine recently departed the yard that built her for the first time, and she will now undergo trials before taking on front-line duties say the Royal Navy.
The #Clyde gives HMS Anson a sunny welcome today #hmsanson @RoyalNavy @NavyLookout #astuteclass #submarine #submariner #navy #naval #shipping #firthofclyde #hmnbclyde pic.twitter.com/SQlKZvCKdy
— Sheila Weir (@SheilaLWeir) February 22, 2023
The first four of seven Astute-class submarines – HMS Astute, HMS Ambush, HMS Artful and HMS Audacious – are already in service with the Royal Navy. HMS Anson was formally commissioned at a ceremony last August, marking her entry into the Royal Navy’s fleet.
The Astute class – the first nuclear-powered submarines to be designed entirely in a three-dimensional, computer-aided environment – represent the cutting edge of the UK’s military capabilities.
They are the most advanced boats ever operated by the Royal Navy, providing the capability needed to defend the UK and its allies’ interests at home and overseas.
They are armed with the long-range Tomahawk land attack missiles and Spearfish heavyweight torpedoes.
Ben Wallace, Secretary of State for Defence, said:
“HMS Anson will play a vital role in defending the UK, providing a competitive edge for decades to come, and I am proud to see her make her journey up to her permanent home on the Clyde. Supporting tens of thousands of jobs across the UK, our Astute-Class submarines are a leading example of our commitment to defence manufacturing, continuing to boost British industry for decades to come.”
I saw her alongside at Barrow last year, and a sleek menacing sight she was too….
I wonder how close to rollout boat 6 is?
Next few months, they really need her out so they can start to assemble the next Dreadnought SSBN.
Let’s hope they can pick up the pace with last two…
Hull 6 is due out mid 2024, with Hull 7 not due out until late 2026/early 2027.
The first two Dreadnoughts are already under construction with Hull 3 getting started recently. It will take years before Dreadnought hull 1 is ready. Unfortunately you can’t just build these like cars on a production line. If BAE could pick up the build pace, we might be in a position to bring forward SSN(R) production.
Cheers, let’s hope that having a fully staffed yard with skilled teams moving from Astute boat 7 to Dreadnought boat one will see a much smoother progression and a steady drum beat, passing the baton to SSNR.
Barrow is something we should all take huge pride in…
The best solution would be speeding up the builds as much as possible without costing a fortune and getting ssnR ready to go.
If the basic design is ready then Australia can use it to add in what they need.
With the unmanned underwater boats been developed, working together with the nuclear boats will be a great force multiplier.
If they can get dreadnaught speeded up a bit then a vanguard or 2 could be used for some years as a mothership.
As usual it’s all funding but one can dream.
Hi pal. Unfortunately, there is no way we will keep a Vangard boat in service once Dreadnought is in service. The operating cost alone is pretty eye watering, plus getting the manning requires some very long term planing and funding. Recruiting for the Submarine service is very challenging.
Hi Robert, would they ever look at converting the Vanguard, if it’s still pretty fresh, to an “arsenal” type sub for, conventional ICBMs, TLAMs, hypersonics, etc? I guess that type of role will be more for the SSNRs but having one big “Zumalt” type sub could be handy to have in the sub pool or not?
Hi Quentin. I don’t think it would happen. Vangard boats are designed from tip to toe to carry the nuclear deterrent. Re-roleing would be hugely expensive, and that type of capability is really for the SSN’s.
So was Ohio and they converted four in to SSGN for $2billion.
Yes, but we are not the US with a US size defence budget.
It’s been proposed according to HI sutton
https://www.google.com/search?q=vanguard+SSGN&rlz=1C9BKJA_enMY813MY813&hl=en-GB&prmd=nisv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj6ksjKyqv9AhWKSEEAHVo4BcIQ_AUoAnoECAIQAg&biw=1112&bih=719&dpr=2#imgrc=EBSCzLqMi0uiHM
Ahh yes, I remember these in an earlier article thread, I think from Nigel. Very good illustrations.
Potentially rerolled as an SSGN and gifted to OZ? Have asked Deep to comment re remaining pressure hull life. Admittedly, not a probable scenario, but the Aussies deserve an exploration of all the technically feasible, short-term options.
I don’t think re-roleing such a massive and complex boat like a Vangard class and selling it is feasible.
I think the RN needs to keep the Vanguard for itself first. Shouldn’t give away all the “family silver”… Lol, and training for Aus is being done on the Anson anyway, totally different subs. Hopefully the SSNR can be brought forward a bit and benefit the RN too if Australia adopts UK sub.
I think they will end up sat in a dockyard for years waiting to be dismantled.
No way we can gift Australia vanguard legally. We could potentially retain two Vanguards ourselves then forward deploy two Astutes in Western Australia with mixed crews to eventually lease the boats outright to Australia.
This would leave us with 5 SSN 2 SSGN to cover Atlantic assuming the Aussies provide our SSN escort for CSG group east of Suez.
? Please explain the legal constraint. Believe a tectonic shift may have just occurred in world politics. Transferring ownership of SSN/SSGN may soon become a trivial matter. Mad Vlad has just unilaterally suspended the sole remaining nuclear arms control treaty, and this status will probably persist, for at least the duration of Russian-Ukrainian conflict. In any event, predict that New START Treaty will sunset in 2026 as scheduled, w/out renewal, if Mad Vlad is still at the helm. The next treaty(ies) to fall will be either the nuclear non-proliferation, or the test ban (or both simultaneously). The Iranians are perilously… Read more »
It will be tricky due to Non Proliferation Treaty transferring an SSN. Tricky but probably doable as their is precedence with India and Russia. Transferring an SSBN even if we say it’s an SSGN is just a different legal ball game. China will have a field day at the UN and Australia’s Labour government would **** a brick. Remember Australia one of the most anti nuclear countries in the world. Suddenly buying some second hand SSBN’s is a massive stretch for them politically.
They wouldn’t just be buying the boat but also ‘buying’ the enormous costs of decommissioning as well, which will need to be done before too long anyway as it’s oldish boat. Think if I were the Aussies I would want a new boat for the that cost.
Yeah, the solution would be for use to retain the Vanguards longer and lease Australian two Astutes.
…re-roled…🙄😁
Unfortunately the US is finding out much the same as it struggles to produce Virginia SSN’s. It’s fleet numbers will drop substantially. We really need to return to two production sites for submarines and reactivate C&L. We should actively consider retaining Vanguard as an SSGN as well. The largest possible fleet of SSN’s the UK could produce would easily be the most important contribution we could make to NATO/AUKUS and would be far more important than us adding an extra brigade or a few squadrons. We could never match the US in terms of aircraft carriers due to the manpower… Read more »
As much as I agree with your sentiments Jim, it will never happen. These is absolutely no chance of 20. The last time such an idea was actively considered was under John Nott in 1981, he pushed hard for the idea of slashing the surface fleet and Royal Marines, reducing escorts to 30 ( from 59 at the time) and building up a fleet of 19 SSN’s. Today, we have an ‘aspersion’ of growing the fleet, but that would mean the Astutes having life extension (long refits) and expensive modernsion and upgrade, while SSNR came into service in the late… Read more »
Big difference between now and 1981 was that we are not facing the Soviet Union in Europe so we don’t have to have a 150,000 strong army and 30+ fast jet squadrons so we can afford 20+ nuclear boats. Two shipyards knocking out a boat once every two years with a 30 year build cycle gets us to 20+ boats in the 2040’s. It’s very doable for a bit of extra funding. The CCP’s stated goal is to be the worlds most powerful nation by 2050. This is the real security threat, not today when American is still dominant and… Read more »
We might get lucky… due to climate-change by 2050 the Chinese are likely to have their hands full dealing with other issues
https://xdi.systems/xdi-benchmark-gdcr/
Even more reason the Chinese under Xi might need more “living room”. Phillipines, Taiwan, Thailand, Myanmar etc should be worried.
Hi Jim. Appreciate your points, however I am of the view the RAF front line jet squadrons need considerably more than the current 7 Typhoon + 1 F3F sqns . A reduction from 31 to 9 sqns is irresponsible. I’d prefer to see an investment in fast jet expansion before the SSN fleet.
I don’t disagree however every member of NATO basically has fast jets and many are acquiring F35 which is probably the best in the world and years ahead of anything China can build and we already have 1,000 built with easily 2,000 more to be acquired just at peace time procurement levels. However for all the vast economies of America and Europe combined we can produce at best 3 nuclear submarine’s a year and as we see with the AUKUS deal increasing numbers to be manufactured takes a minimum of twenty years just to get the first boat much less… Read more »
I think you’ll find your China argument also applies to expansion in their air force ability and carrier air wing capability. I can’t see 20 SSBN being achievable .
However, do bear in mind that I’m an ex air force type, and so have a natural bias to all things RAF!
Me too!
However, I also prioritise the SSN alongside FJ Sqns.
I’m sorry Jim, but getting to 20+ SSN’s is not doable “for a bit of extra funding ” We aren’t talking about ordering a few more tanks here (and we can’t even afford that) we are talking about the most complex machines mankind has ever built. To get to anything even close to 20 SSN boats would require a massive increase in defence spending, or massively slash somthing else. And the biggest problem would be recruiting the extra personnel we would need. The submarine service struggles to recruit for the number of boats we have today. It’s a nice aspiration,… Read more »
One SSN cost £1.3 billion. If I increase our buy rate from basically one every two years to one every year then it cost me £650 million per year more. The defence budget is £50 billion a year so I’m talking a 1.3% increase. The boat requires a crew of 98 sailors. We can crew a fleet of 20 for the number of people contained in just two infantry battalions. It’s not a big deal we have just convinced ourselves it is. What is a big deal is the technology and industrial base to build them. Almost no one has… Read more »
Jim. It is a big deal, and the money and manning just doesn’t work in the way you have explained. That is massively over simplifying it. It takes decades to build up the experience to build these things. This is why so few nations can build nuclear submarines. They make the space shuttle look like a lego set in comparison of engineering complexity.
Spot on Robert 👌
Whilst that is all very true, the drumbeat can be upped and the reasons we so have only 7 SSN was the gapping between end of SSBN and Astute production. If the drumbeat had been maintained then there would be around 12 SSN in service. The fact remains that we did manage to crew and sustain low double digit number of SSN previously- up to not that long ago. There is also a coherent argument that running only 7 SSN’s is not that cost effective as various establishments are not used to capacity and there is a lack of skills… Read more »
Hi mate. I agree 12 is the ideal number and a number we maintained for many years. But defence cuts reduced that number to save money, especially operating costs. The gap between classes was large and we lost a lot of experience, same withT42 to T45. But If those mistakes hadn’t been made, I’m not sure that it would have resulted in keeping 12 boats. Defence reviews over the years haven’t resulted in a new requirement to get back to 10 or 12 boats even if the industrial capacity was available. And now we simply don’t have the man power… Read more »
The thing is cart and horse?
Is the real driver containing an assertive China? It is real and very threatening.
What happens when China’s invasion of Russia kicks off?
Russia is going to become a Chinese vassal state pretty soon. That is a very large land mass under Chinese influence.
The next problem is ‘can you afford not to do it?’
Subsea is an area where a lot of mischief can happen.
Believe that the commissioning of a flotilla of twelve RN SSN(R) boats by some point in the 2040’s is feasible, provided AUKUS participation by UK yields tangible design and manufacturing benefits, HMG provides the requisite funding and MoD leadership (unfortunate that Big Ben does not have a lifetime appointment) and the strategic threat assessment remains at or above the current level. The ace in the hole for AUKUS members re submarine ops. may well be the development of autonomous underwater vessels w/ enhanced C2ISR capabilities, developed during the same timeframe w/in AUKUS R&D program. 🤔
It’s doable, the only issue is that people in the UK (especially the political class) have lost any thought or vision for operating at a true world power level independently of the USA. The mere mention of an ambitious project is met with scoff and ridicule.
It called common sense since Jim. We would require a 6% + defence budget to achieve what you are talking about.
That’s £150 billion a year. You think we need an extra £100 billion a year to build a second SSN every two years. It’s not HMS Death Star 😀
Again, that’s not how it works. Think about the operating costs alone. The cost of weapons, refits, maintenance periods. How much more in infrastructure and extra accommodation. Where do all these new Submariners all come from? Cost of training ect. It’s a very expensive business. 10 Attack boats and 4 Dreadnoughts is a more realistic ambition. But as things are, it will be 7 Astute and 4 Dreadnought. And it takes longer than 2 years to build an SSN.
The last SSN built at CL was HMS Conqueror and she was built and launched old style on a slipway that was in 1969. Modern boats are actually the most complex machines ever built (the space programme doesn’t even come close). I don’t know if you have visited Barrow and seen the D Hall and the sheer size of the BAe site but it dwarfs the CL site. And then there is the small matter of the 13k skilled employees needed for a 2nd site. IMHO the only feasible way to increase the numbers of boats would be a pretty… Read more »
It would require an absolutely enormous effort, I just can’t see it ever happening, but it’s a wonderful dream at least.
John I do not doubt it would be a massive effort, I have a pretty good idea of what would be involved to uplift the production of PWR3’s, cores etc by 50%. But there is a huge Green and Gold coloured Elephant sitting quietly in the back garden till next month. There is zero possibility of the RAN Aukus project happening unless someone increases build capacity somewhere. Be that hull sections, power plants, ancillary kit, weapon delivery systems or even complete boats. If we think boosting U.K industry capacity is expensive just think of doing it from ground zero with… Read more »
Absolutely, I think the only way AUKUS can work is if there is a joint SSNR design, with Australia building the front end and the UK the rear, with final assembly in the UK. The logistics and security needed for moving half a super classified SSN halfway across the planet would be daunting, but doable. It would require gargantuan efforts in Australia, and expansion and huge efforts in the UK, but perhaps a build of 16 to 24 ( if threat levels continue, then 12 boats a peice) boats would reduce the costs, as long lead eye watering expensive items… Read more »
I have serious doubts Australia’s industrial base can do it. No disrespect to Australia but welders in Aus get paid an absolute fortune in the Oil and Gas industry and I don’t see how you keep the skills at the shipyard without paying an enormous amount.
In comparison the UK is cheap as chips.
We are living in dangerous times with Mad Vlad in charge of Russia and China clearing wanting to rise to world domination and building up a gigantic military to achieve president Xi wishes. The question has to be asked can we afford not to rearm or are we in the UK and the rest of our NATO allies, who have reaped the supposed peace dividend going to simply allow Russia and China to write history as they see fit? Democracy’s freedom comes at a price. That price is our willingness to defend it at all costs and against all enemies.… Read more »
Good points 👍
Hi ABCRodney, I can’t see us being able to increase capacity anytime soon. All we can do is make sure we get the best out of the capacity we have and at the moment that isn’t happening. Barrow, until recently at least, was still recovering from the ’90’s hiatus (delays to Audacious) and there are serious risks around there being a gap between the last Dreadnaught and the SSNR production starting, especially on the pressure hull fabrication apparently. Hopefully BAES will be able to make up some of the lost time, if the politicians don’t throw any bombs into the… Read more »
Should inference be drawn that CL could prove to be a suitable location for developing an ancillary SSK flotilla, provided requisite funding/capital investment, skilled labor and management, time, etc.are available? 🤔
All good points however it’s worth noting Barrow assembles one boat every two years and the yards in the US and in theory Russia are working at twice the speed or more I.e One per year. CL and other ship yards could build additional sections to be assembled at Barrow or we just go to the expense of rebuilding CL, have them work on sections for Barrow until ready to start building full sized boats. Not easy but not impossible. We have reactivated yards before including Barrow itself. Remember the US is simultaneously building Columbia and Virginia class with modules… Read more »
I wouldn’t worry about the Russian submarine building yards too much. Id be rather more worried about the Chinese who will be taking all of the Russian submarine tech, including stuff the Russians never actually deployed as they didn’t have the R&D budgets post Cold War, in return for basic munitions to save Mad Vlad’s next. The Chinese will have a long shopping list of what they want. They have time on their side and will sit there with a blank face repeating ‘Yes, Vlad you can have what you want when you give us all of this’. Vlad will… Read more »
Agree. The pentagon just completed a series of 24 war game simulations for defence of Taiwan. In all scenarios the nuclear attack submarine not the carrier fleet ruled supreme and was the number 1 platform leading to defeat of Chinese invasion.
We probably should reinstate a 2nd production site admittedly at significant cost and try to get SSNr production going now.
Thought I read on an earlier article thread that they’re looking at second location to assemble future subs? Was I imagining that?
Hi Q, there are realistically 3 options open to us;
1 – Stay as is with Barrow, try to increase the build rate. This is the easiest option.
2 – Put money into Barrow and get a second production line going. Not easy for lots of reasons.
3 – Put money into CL at Birkenhead and start building there again. Not easy either, again for lots of reasons.
Deep,
Hi, a somewhat rhetorical question prompted by several posts on this thread: ignoring cost implications, would the pressure hulls of any of the Vanguard class have sufficient remaining life, in terms of pressurization cycles, to justify a hypothetical conversion to SSGN role in the 2030’s? Methinks probably not, but not an area of expertise. Conversely, reactor core refueling capability has been demonstrated by Vanguard. 🤔
That isn’t the issue the Hull life isn’t defining lifetime of the Boats.it is the reactor, the core, the coolant system, pumps , valves etc. Many of these components have a lifespan, are no longer manufactured and in some cases cannot be remanufactured. For example Vanguards use a a Type H PWR2 reactor, there is no capacity to build any more. Also unlike a surface ship a Sub is way more complicated and failures of old parts can be fatal. The last 2 Subs lost were 40 and 35 years old. Most people do not realise that metal changes over… Read more »
No it’s purely the pressure hull that defines life time. Vanguards already had her reactor swapped. Astute already had much of her machinery swapped out as well.
Err no. Vanguard had to have an extended refit due to leaks in her coolant system caused by microscopic irregularities due to radiation. Her reactor was not swapped out as that is virtually impossible. Due to the time needed for the remedial work they took the opportunity to change her H core early. The work on Astute was to avoid the same problems occurring in PWR2 system. Non of that means the life of the life of the boat can be extended because we do not make the PWR2 H Core here in Derby anymore, just full bore building PWR3… Read more »
Excellent point, had significant doubts re viability of suggestion.
Vanguard probably does. She has been in refit for 9 years and costing +£500 million. Just crazy length of time to refit but this has meant her pressure hull must be in good order currently. Vigilant and Victorious have shouldered the deterrent burden via lengthened and more frequent patrols so their pressure hulls are likely in less good state. I think once Vanguard returns to service she is going to need to be worked hard whilst other V class boats enter refit, hopefully none taking as long as Vanguard’s refit did.
We have 4 SSBN’s Mr Bell, you omitted Vengence from your list. But you are correct, they have been worked extremely hard due to Vanguards refit issues overrunning. Victorious is the next oldest so will be next in line for a re-fuelling. I imagine that the hope is that the other two Boats dont need to be re-fuelled, its very costly and you dont get the same return of service from them. Time as they say will tell.
Given how hard the US works it’s Ohios and how long they have lasted I suspect Vanguards pressure hull actually has a lot of life left in it. Vanguards do less than half the patrols of Ohios and are much newer than Ohios but will leave service much earlier. There is nonsense talk of design life and quality however much the same as Ohio, Vanguards were immensely expensive and fantastically well designed. There was no corner cutting and I’m sure specs for both were much the same. However you will never get a straight answer from the RN or the… Read more »
See Deep32’s post below. He is ex RN Submarine Service.
Hi mate, The simple answer is yes they would have sufficient life left in the hulls. SSBNs spend the vast majority of their lives patrolling at what you might term shallower depths, basically less than 100m. Unlike their SSN counterparts which yoyo about, between greater depths far more, typically 100-250m. Its never really the pressure hull which determines how long SMs stay running, but more the critical systems. Vanguards refit is some £250 million over budget and it took 7 1/2 years due to some unforseen issues within the reactor systems. There comes a time when these ladies are just… Read more »
Thanks for the extended response, correlates well w/ a different post above. Would be willing to bet that Ohio class SSGN conversions came up in steering group discussions, before being dismissed for reasons given.
Thank you I am fed up saying there are no more un allocated PWR2 cores and no way to build more.
Hull life is irrelevant it is the life of the reactor and machinery.
When is the first Astute due to retire?
Hi James, HMS Astute was commissioned in 2010, the same year she started sea trials. Everything I have read suggests a 25 year life for the Reactor core / fuel which is not designed to be refueled. HMS Vanguard as the same reactor and they were forced to refuel her because of cracks detected somewhere in the core I think (but I’m digging this bit out of the dark corners of my memory…). It took years to get the job done because they needed to wait for the reactor to cool and they had to write the book on refueling… Read more »
Believe AUKUS master plan will serve as a very useful role as a forcing function in the design/ production of SSN(R)/SSN(X)/SSN(OZ). Fortuitously or providentially, BAE/RR previously awarded concept exploration contracts for SSN(R). Occasionally, a plan comes together successfully. ,🤔😳👌
Scheduled to be around 2035.
They do need to pick up the pace, that almost decade long production hole they left when victorious was launched is going to take a generation of ship building to get over..the Major government seriously messed up our Nuclear boat building between 1990 and 2000.
A much-welcomed and timely addition to the RN fleet. More required! So much for the poor quality steel being used and not being a blue water navy-comments over the years. If we’d listened to the usual pair of idiots on here we would no doubt be eating won ton soup for starters and prawn crackers while watching the J-20 stealth fighter jets take off from RAF Marham in our deck chairs further down the line 😂 Lest We Forget! “China’s navy has significant advantages over its US rival, including a bigger fleet and greater shipbuilding capacity, as Beijing seeks to project… Read more »
Some nice images of her arrival.
Why does it take 5 months from commissioning to leave Barrow to the Clyde. Anybody have an answer please l?
Basically the enormous complexity of these boats, they don’t leave until the RN is 100% satisfied she’s seaworthy and everything is tripple checked for potential defects.
Missing a fault and having to return to Barrow would be a hugely expensive and rather embarrassing turn of events.
Thank you for your prompt reply
Question answered!
After all, we wouldn’t want to give the trolls on here something to laugh about.
You are one of the trolls Nigel. Who are you kidding. Heaven forbid if anyone disagrees with you.
Blays Back I see, no real answers so he presses his usual button.
https://www.findmeagift.co.uk/site_media/images/products/p_main/fun137_bullshit_button_1.jpg
Hi Nigel, not sure what set you two off but I think it’s time for a truce. You both make valuable contributions here and we all get up each other at times.
Deal?
I’ve asked him many times over the years to stop posting in reply to my comments but it seems he is unable to stop.
He told @Graham Moore only a few weeks back that he doesn’t reply to my posts and within a week guess what!
He should try posting his own comments and stay off of mine it really is that simple.
It’s an open forum here so there’s going to be a bit of agree, disagree, and maybe a bit worse at times. I can’t remember who said it, but everyone here has a say. I like the banter and i know it gets personal at times but I think it’s all pretty mild compared to what’s gets said out in the big world. And if I can say in jest, maybe men can be a bit bitchy too?
Seconded. Two of my fav posters always at it!
Early start it seems.
https://www.etsy.com/img/39126399/r/il/fe5e55/4531841689/il_fullxfull.4531841689_i5cw.jpg
I once walked into a pub here The Rocks, I’m Sydney, near our bridge, it’s called “The Australian”, nice pub, famous for its “pizzeta’s”, small pizza’s. And I asked for a cup of tea (English habit) and got laughed at by the bartender and some others standing near by. They couldn’t believe it. Anyway I was in a good mood and laughed back and enjoyed my cuppa. I think everyone else was on the alcohol.
I worked in Australia for three years based in Melbourne with another one of our post-production houses based in Sydney.
Next time ask the bartender for a pot, but don’t mention tea 🍺
Good to see that HMS Anson is at Faslane. She is the fifth of her class and her engineering and construction benefitted from the experience gained when building and operating her sister ships
The recently upgraded and approved Mod 1 Spearfish will be available when she starts doing her job, as well as the new block V TLAM sometime in 2024
God bless her and all who sail in her
Amen. 🙏
Hope they’re stocking up a bit on those TLAMs…
Loving the photos.
I’m curious about the tiles on the sail and whether they are in their finished state or not? They appear much more distinctive on this boat, at least in these photos, compared to other similar types in my opinion. The sail tiles also seem smaller on this boat compared to it’s contemporaries, but I’m no expert.
End of the day, what an incredible machine.
The Tiles are complete, all of the A Boats show the same patchwork quilt effect, there might be some slight differences in colour due to lighting, composition and age etc.
Hi Blue,
There is a really good article on NavyLookout on Anson. The tiles have been under continuous development so that might explain some of the variations you are looking at.
Cheers CR
Thanks Chaps
I just came across this which was somewhat troubling.
“A senior defence official has admitted that many of Britain’s military upgrades and new weapons programmes are “really horrible and broken”.
The shock admission from Andy Start, the chief executive of defence equipment and support at the Ministry of Defence, came as MPs probed multiple failures in buying new kit for Britain’s armed forces at a time when Ukraine is begging for more supplies.”
LINK
There’s always some buggers who let the side down or who talk 🇬🇧 down. Time for some forward and “up” energy!
We need to know exactly what is going on with our defence procurement in order to fix the problems. Stating Ajax will not be ready until the 2030s to me is concerning. But I agree with you that good news is required so let’s see what comes in the Budget. We need an annual increase of £3Billion it seems. “Already the committee had been told that the UK’s heavy armour replacements including Ajax’s introduction has largely been delayed until the next decade. Some of the heavy armour vehicles being used by the army date back 50 years while Britain has… Read more »
I’m not a military person and not going to pretend to be one but seriously, Ajax not ready until the 2030s! Can’t believe this comment! Surely it’s needed right now, isn’t it? If it’s still crap, return to its maker. If it’s okay, like we all thought it was just last week, we’ll get into service by the end of the year or buy something else…if the money is magically made available.
HI Nigel,
He is right, but I don’t think this is a surprise or anything new. There has always been broken programmes and given the way the MoD / military like to buy their equipment (and get jobs with contractors when they retire…!) I fear there always will be broken programmes. We all know about the Army’s awful AFV programme over the last 20 or so years…….
Depressing I know, but it was bad when I was in the business and it is still bad today. There are some bright spots, T31 for example, but…
Cheers CR
“I don’t think this is a surprise or anything new” And that is my concern right there. If we continue on in this vein, what hope is there for the future? Right now we should be in a position to adequately defend the UK, instead, we find ourselves in the exact same position as we have for the last 20+ years outdated equipment, broken programmes, and limited investment in our armed forces, all at a time when a war has Broken out in Europe. I’m sure you will recall the endless comments on here, WAR IN EUROPE LOL, It’s never… Read more »
Some possible good news regarding fighters for Ukraine.
I agree with the Polish assessment. This is going to be a long war. WW2 was in fact a number of smaller wars that coalesced into a global conflagration. If China gets more involved that basically links the tensions in the east with the tensions in the west – not good news at all. So the west needs to step up and see to it that the Ukrainians get the kit they need and we should all expect this awful war to be going on for years to come, especially is Putin thinks he can out at last the west.… Read more »
Hi Nigel, What can I say? Broadly I agree with what you say. However, the light will never really be shone into the darkest corners of the procurement system because there are too many vested interests. In my experience, and I did twenty plus years in defence procurement from R&D to assessment related stuff, although I was a small gog in a very big machine, but too many people pass through procurement posts looking to the next job. They just want to make an impact that they can point to when they get back to their proper job. Two years… Read more »
“Sorry, I haven’t had a rant on this subject for a long time. I should warn you that it is quite a large button you pressed” No doubt, It’s just annoying to see countries like Poland that can reach a quick and informed decision and start receiving the equipment they require double quick time and for some reason, we fail to do so in many cases, particularly at a time when it might just be required. With the recent threats Mad Vlad has made, lets hope the Government and the bean countries free up the cash to put things right.… Read more »
Nice one mate.
Are their still Australian crew in training on Anson of ashore? Will be kind of a nice advanced preparation for them if they adopt the Astute/SSNR sub for the RAN. Might spur the laters program on a bit. Hope it all pays off well for 🇬🇧 🇦🇺 🇺🇸
*of… or
Id be surprised if integration with both RN and US Navies has not already started.
Well seed corn is the very first step, getting experienced RAN personnel onto USN/RN boats on secondment to start building a knowledge base in house.
Step two, is getting new recruits into training on nuclear propulsion engineering and all the other areas specific to SSN operation and maintenance etc.
It’s one hell of a daunting task, doing this from scratch!
As the son of a submariner (1940-1953; ww2 HMS Tally HO – sailing from trinco ), I have an interest in the Silent Service specifically and defence matters generally .
I must say that I am very heartened by all the comments. If only our politicians ( although Ben Wallace seems genuine ) and the MOD were as knowledgeable and committed as the contributors I would feel a lot happier about the direction of UK defence capability. I salute those in particular who have served .
Another one is on the way. The food is not too bad I hear!
“The Italian Navy’s Type 212 Near Future Submarine (NFS) programme has successfully completed its critical design review (CDR).
In a statement issued on 21 February, the European defence procurement agency Organisation for Joint Armament Co-operation (OCCAR) said the CDR had successfully demonstrated that the design is mature and fully compliant to mission performance requirements and can proceed with the manufacturing, system installation, integration, and trial test phase.”