HMS Trent has embarked on a mission to West Africa, aiming to enhance maritime security and curb criminal activities like piracy and armed robbery prevalent in the region.
According to a Royal Navy press release:
“HMS Trent sailed from Gibraltar with an expert boarding team of Royal Marines and a Puma surveillance drone, tasked with increasing stability across the Gulf of Guinea through training, in order to protect around £6 billion of UK trade that passes through the region.”
In addition to conducting training sessions for partner navies, HMS Trent, which routinely operates in the Mediterranean and Africa, is committed to bolstering ties, exchanging knowledge, and carrying out patrols to amplify security.
This initiative aligns with the broader goals of the Friends of the Gulf of Guinea (FOGG), an international collective dedicated to assisting Gulf of Guinea nations. The collaboration is vital as the region has experienced setbacks in international shipping, threats to seafarers, and subsequent economic repercussions.
HMS Trent is equipped with advanced technologies, including the Puma drone, which is capable of conducting reconnaissance over an area larger than Greater Manchester. This mission also sees the involvement of specialist Royal Marines from 42 Commando.
Lieutenant Christopher Windsor, Puma Flight Commander from 700X Naval Air Squadron, shared his perspective on the deployment: “I am delighted to support HMS Trent’s upcoming deployment to West Africa with Puma. The opportunity to deploy Puma as an aviation asset on board Trent will benefit our deployment as well as shape future tasking across the patrol ship fleet. My team is looking forward to testing this capability.”
Two River class aritcles in one day! Ho boy.
And reading through the posts, the you know what has not got a mention. At least, not on this thread. Maybe things are looking up?
Guns n stuff and more of the type produced as WARSHIPS.
I think we need several more Rivers. They should be doing the turtle conservation, drug interdiction and piracy stuff so we can free up the high end stuff for the jobs they were designed to do.
To be effective at those missions they need a hangar with a helicopter in it.
You don’t think much of the Puma drone?
Gotta do turtle stuff and banyans or everyone gets threaders and walks.
Fancy doing defence watches for 3 years on a T23 doing nothing but Towed array patrols in the GIUK gap?
Yes, so very very important!
Forget T 32, get five more rivers.
Not sure the RN even wanted these ships. Still any hull is better than none. More Rivers are not on the cards, only there because T26 programme was delayed. Fear there is more bad news coming in terms of active escorts. The Rivers B1 &B2 ae going to be busy flying the flag and catching turtles.
Anticipate Type 32 cancelled … and River Batch 1s retired without replacement by the end of the decade. Then Type 31s will likely replace Batch IIs forward and Batch IIs will mostly concentrate in UK waters.
Type 32 does not exist, other as a concept. Nothing to cancel. It would make sense to keep Rosyth active. The UK could struggle to support 2x escort yards.
Don’t be so pessimistic as something might come out of reported Anglo- Norwegian A140/T31ASW developments and maybe also from Aus NZ & Anzac class frigate replacement or corvette type requirements. I think MoD and Babcock will be very alert to this already.
Surely the RN has always had OPVs – why might they mot have wanted River class ships? I understand they are more capable than the Island class OPVs.
What effect does a frigate programme have on an OPV programme?
T26 was reduced in scope and delayed (build stretched) to ‘save money’. To keep BAES skilled workforce busy Batch 2 Rivers were ordered, in part to fill the gap.
OK, many thanks. Amazing that MoD order ships just to keep a workforce busy. Pity that didn’t happen with AFVs for the army over the 20 years, 2002-2020!
Less amazing when you know in 2009 the previous government had signed a Terms of Business Agreement with BAES/VT stating they would pay a minimum annual amount to ensure the Clyde workforce would be there to build the Type 26s. If the Cameron government hadn’t bought the OPVs, they would still have had to pay most of the money.
Thanks Jon. Good info. Its certainly one way to keep ‘naval’ shipyards open.
The less said about Cameron the better.
Especially now that we have tandem building facilities to bang together two ships at the same time
The Integrated Operating Concept, published after the the B2s were built, elevates engagement (the River Class tour de force) to the level of strategic policy. Maybe the Navy didn’t want the B2s back in 2015, but I suspect many now think they lucked out.
Doing what they are meant to do….very good cost effective ships for this constabulary work. Interesting to see they will have both marines and an unmanned air asset. Showing what they can do.
I would still have liked them to have a wildcat hanger…
Even a telescoped hangar. Maybe they could move but still keep the crane and have a bit of extra punch with a 40mm? But some here would argue here that there’s been too much money spent on these already and there’s the T31s coming in.
The issue with a telescoping hangar isn’t the crane, it’s the Flyco.
FLYCO? Just get some idiot to stand on the flight deck stbd fwd. White overalls, yellow surcoat, big orange tango gloves during the day or wands at night, headset with internal comms in one ear from bridge and OPS room and external comms from helo in the other, belt around your middle with the comms select switch box hanging off it. Oh forgot to mention being freezing cold during night Ops down south or in the high north, melting in the tropics, the acoustic shock from feedback on the comms circuit and the sweat covered headset shorting out and constantly… Read more »
Like it or not there is one, and it’s right where a hangar would go.
You still need an FDO and capt of the deck. Flyco is a nice to have but not really needed on a single Spot deck
Fair enough, guess it just seems a bit weird that you’d reduce the aircraft management structure to house aircraft to me.
Most ships dont have FLYCOs. You control aircraft launch and recovery on single spot ships from the FDO and the Bridge. FLYCOS are more important for multi spots and are usually operated by WAFU Chockhead officers. There are not that many of them so they must give them something to do!
Mate, you might need to explain what a WAFU is to the uninitiated?
WAFU is a member of the Fleet air arm… My moth was shocked when I explained that it means all wet and F*”in useless
Wet and F*ING useless.
Good memories to look back on
Or two coloured table tennis bats
Ideal world we’d keep B2’s forward deployed and add T-31 as they come online, the T-31 can be wildcat home but having a landing pad 2-300 miles away would realy increase it’s operating range to counter pirates/drug smugglers during ops. add yep 40mm with 3P ammo would give effective counter/threat to anything above the surface.
The Puma drone is fine for constabulary work I think. In a serious conflict scenario I believe that River 2 can refuel and re-arm a Wildcat – host it for several days in ….just not maintain it. In coming to terms with the T26 budget issue they were making a virtue out of necessity but it has turned out to be an inspired decision for the RN to go with the design they did; crane, Merlin sized deck, 2xPacific 24 rhibs, 35 day endurance, accommodation for RM; rather than be seduced by corvette thinking. Given the current political situation and… Read more »
Anybody been to Gibraltar recently? I have had a few weekends there, and oh dear, what have they done with the place? It used to be my favourite run ashore, but now that the RN hardly goes there most of the sailors favourite ‘haunts are gone.the economy on the Rock has suffered for it. Britain must not forget the importance of the rock and I’d like to see a basing of a river, or a frigate there. I’ve also been to Malta to see the ‘gut’ t. The whole street is bricked up and empty. All that remains is the… Read more »
And a big gun on the pointy end.
These are great little ships that free up front line assets at a fraction of the cost.
Indeed, & neither so little or slow. Relatively easy to enhance to various levels depending on need, even up to a Mk110 with the inbuilt magazine space. RN does try to make the best of it’s finances, overall.
Wonder if they’ll upgun the B1s to 30mm after 20mm is withdrawn? They’re hard work horses.
Probably hoping to save investment on those? No idea, but could depend on how often they want them in the Baltic – and how dire the need. Either way, might not be zero sum with regard to any investment in the B2s. Bit of a balancing act at best, maybe.
I’d be shocked if they did. They’re getting old and since they really only deploy in UK waters there’s even less argument for doing so than for upgunning the B2’s.
I didn’t know that a decision had been made to withdraw 20mm. Do you have a link, please? Presumably it affects the Albions and Argus as well.
Hi Jon, sorry I can’t be specific but I think it was a bit way back from a post on here. Yes, I think it will be off all RN ships. We’ll have to wait to see what they’re replaced with.
Probably a very good idea when the Echos, B1s and Argus were supposed to be decommissioned, so even if the Albions remain saved, it was only a couple of ships to be converted. Now it’s half a dozen ships to the end of the decade I wonder if it’ll still be done before then.
Hi Gavin. Indeed not too slow nor little. At 2000 tonnes compared to the size of some WW2 destroyers at under 1000 tonnes. Steel is(relatively) cheap so good to make space for possible upgrades
Geoff, because I’m me I have to point out the Rivers are also technically cruiser sized.
😉😆 So here’s to the Batch 3 Rivers-Tiger, Blake, Swiftsure and Lion😃
I loved my four years on Blake. 100 degrees in the boiler rooms and the engine rooms wet air, crushing noise, and loads of brass we were kept polishing🤬
Wow-what a wonderful experience that must have been Andy! Were you old enough to have had some Navy Rum before they stopped it?
Regards from Durban
Surely not pray explain to me that assertion 😄
I mean, it’s all in the link in my post but if you want me to spell it out sure:
River class OPV’s displace the same amount as some Royal Navy Cruisers did.
Cheers mate I get what you .ean, shows to me that some ships are unnecessarily oversized these days, hence destroyer/cruiser sized frigates which cost far More than they need to, and take far longer to churn out👍
That’s the lesson you take from this?
Do you think that the Fletcher’s and Tribal’s where needlessly oversized? More than they needed to?
Just to reductio ad absurdam this baby: HMS Victory displaced only a little more than HMS Pryamus, does it then follow that Pryamus herself was overbuild, since 100 years before the biggest ship in the navy was comparable to her?
My central point is Historical comparisons are just as silly as that last one. The requirements of naval vessels change, and simply comparing to a arbitrary point in history (and it’s always WW2) is silly.
Would have been good to get some extra sales of the River B2s after just Thailand under licence. Not sure if they were ever offered to the RAN who went with the Arafura’s, which I think they are now finding are too short and limited for what’s needed. Hopefully Aus and NZ might go for some T31s.
That would be a good outcome Quentin in terms of commonality among AUKUS(NZ)
Rumours suggest that the Arafuras may be cancelled in favour of a second tier combatant. I’ve heard Navantia, ThyssenKrupp, and Luerssen are all pitching corvettes and Babcock are offering the Type 31. But nothing from BAES and an upgunned River. I don’t think corvettes suit RAN anymore than they do the RN. Both need a combant with legs, the RN has global interests and Australia is surrounded by an awful lot of water. 90m corvettes are just too pokey. However, I wonder if Babcock seals the deal, will a larger frigate canibalise perceived capability and funding from the Hunters, something… Read more »
Must admit I liked the look of the latest Leander. Lot of punch, capability, though hangar not made big enough for a Merlin but maybe okay for a Wildcat and UAV. Shorter, less stowage and room for armaments than a T31/A140.
Do you have a link for that latest Leander?
Hi Paul, I’m trying to paste it from my phone… There’re many articles, but it’s a Navy Lokkout one that i’m trying to get to.
NL 30th May, 2019 article. Link below is waiting approval.
Thx. I found a NL article with that date, which was a few months before Arrowhead was awarded the T31 ( patrol frigate) contract. What with the announcement of NSM and Mk41 for T31 it looks like the RN are quick to exploit the growth potential of the Arrowhead 140 hull. Which prompts some questions – does the development of T31 leave a gap in the fleet for the original patrol frigate concept? what is T32 for? Can we afford to replace globally deployed River 2 with ‘patrol frigates’ which need x2 the crew to do the same ‘presence’ role?… Read more »
Has NSM been announced for Type 31? I think we would all expect it to be ported from Type 23s, it would be crazy not to, the Type 26s will have FC/ASW, so where else would they go but the Type 31s, but I can’t recall if it’s announced policy.
No Jon, you are right. My phrasing wasn’t clear enough. My thought for what it’s worth is that the early build T31s will get NSM while the later ones could forego NSM and rely the new FC/ASW missile in Mk41. Wouldn’t be surprised though to see those Mk41s used to augment T45 load with extra Aster 30 Block 1 and NSM retained for the strike roles on all T31s. Smart move to put Mk41 on T31. Creates lots of options.
The March 23rd NL top-trumps article is also pretty good just to hit the numbers.
Yes, this one too. Thanks Jon.
I think I recall reading somewhere that 90m was the shortest hull length that the RN considered acceptable for ‘blue water’ sailing. The Arafura according to wiki is 80m, 1600 tons and 21 days endurance. River 2 at 90m, 2000 tons and 31 days endurance is a noticeable step up.
Might have been more useful going for a 90m Arafura type or BAE should have tried much harder to sell the 90m River. I see that it’s visited Brisbane recently and it’s been in Darwin a couple of times.
Why does a ship with a fairly small complement have a Commander as the captain?
Just rank inflation. All the rage now.
I’ll get mi coat.
How do Lts get command experience, I wonder?
OOW, other duties, Gunbuster is the man to answer your question – my reply was rather tongue in cheek.
Thanks. OOW is undoubtedly a period of high pressure and responsibility for a number of hours but is not the same as commanding your own ship or boat.
I also recall that SSKs were commanded by Lt Comdrs?
Not sure what commands the Lts and Lt Comdrs have now.
Well be careful because when I asked a serious question wrt the Gib Patrol boat having a Cmdr I was told it was because of the diplomatic aspects involved… a boat with a gimpy/.50 cal needs a commander…
Then again, 74 ish Generals for 72,000 troops and no longer an Army as such and the same argument is trotted out.
An interesting waste of time is to visit wiki and look at the senior Braid who have no assignment against their names although I’d rather that than one for gender affairs; the Armed Forces do know how to waste money.
Thin Pinstriped Line did a piece earlier this year on the subject, more a justification really. I’m not sure I agree with it in total, but there are a few very salient points made and if you haven’t read it, you might find it of interest.
I did, but, Jim30 roles it out everytime to the extent that he might have left the MoD but, set up his own PR company on 24/7 contract to his former employer. Why? 74? 75? Generals for an Army of 72K, that is excessive and out of control and the elephant in the room is that the Army is no longer an Army, it is a Defence Force and with that, it needs slimming down on the Braid. Put a profit and loss line against each Defence Engagement post and show the value added contribution that post holder contributes –… Read more »
I can’t defend the number of generals. I wouldn’t even try. It’s outside my areas of understanding. Asking “why 74 or 75?” is valid and indeed valuable. However, any request that public spending is justified, and that includes spending on generals, is not a logical argument to reduce spending or cut the numbers. In fact it can feel like an attack. The implication is that if when put on the spot people can’t justify the number in public and immediately, there needs to be cuts. I don’t think that’s reasonable. I think there is an argument to be made that… Read more »
The structure of the army’s Field Force has not caused a high number of Generals.
It is all the other side of the house – ie the ‘corporate’ side – the MoD ‘Head Office’, Defence agencies, defence diplomacy posts. Much is due to our being ‘global Britain’ – but we have been that for hundreds of years!
Your link, which actually supports the points you made https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serving_senior_officers_of_the_British_Army
Thanks David. There are still too many senior officers but it is very hard to work out what posts could be scrapped or down-ranked.
P&L? Do you think the army is a commercial business David? Bring in sales? What are you talking about? Selling old defence equipment? Drumming up exports for new kit?
You cannot evaluate the monetary value of senior staff and defence diplomacy jobs.
Poor army procurement on AFVs in the last 20 years, very true. However not many army senior officers involved in that side of the house…or should I say ‘business?
The number of senior staff acting as DAs in embassies – who then have a staff…
And yes, we seem to put profit lines against almost everything these days so let’s have a similar metric for DAs – who might score very highly in Australia and Canada (T26) less highly in the USA.
Thanks. I served as an exchange officer in Canadian Forces (as a Major) way back in 2004-2006. I reported both to my Canadian boss (Lt Col) and the British DA. The DA to the British High Commission in Ottawa did have a staff – he was army (Brigadier) so doubled as the Military Attache as well. Under him was an Air Attache (Gp Capt). There was no Naval attache as I recall – think the Air Attache covered off naval matters. There was a military chief clerk (SSgt), civilian PAs to the two officers and a civilian junior clerk. I… Read more »
Is that part of the problem? Their work is so opaque that it can’t be challenged. The link you shared shows an MBA, perhaps that person is far more qualified to have a period of self reflection and come up with some self reflection metrics than I am. Pruning at the top is not about cutting the budget – we need a bigger budget, but we really do need to have a far better value for money regime in place against what is spent – equipment acquisition, retention of obsolete kit, pay, pensions and allowances. Referring back to another post… Read more »
I am not against challenging UK having an excessive number of senior officers when compared to the size of our armed forces – I fully approve of this criticism. I am not sure anyone’s work is opaque; all posts have job descriptions. The link I shared showed that the current DA in Ottawa happens to have an MBA – it is not unusual for officers to have degrees (bachelors and Masters), MBAs, PRINCE 2 and all sorts of qualifications. I am not sure you need a MBA to work out metrics for particular jobs. I still don’t get that metrics… Read more »
A number of very senior posts were reduced in rank some years ago, such as Arms & Service Directors, reduced from Maj-Gen to Brig.
The Senior officer in the South Atlantic (Falklands, Sth Georgia etc) reduced from 2* to 1* many years ago.
Where a rank reduction can be done, it is done.
So what is the justification for a 1* in the Falklands?
Is there a Brigade?
We are a Defence Force in all but name – when that gets seized on by Labour (stand fast – it’ll be a long time coming) I’d expect some pruning.
The Commander’s post was pruned in the mid-90s from 2* to 1*. It is now known as Commander British Forces South Atlantic islands – CBFSAI – incumbents can of course be from the RN, RM, Army or RAF – current incumbent is army Brigader Dan Duff who took over from Commodore Jonathan Lett in May this year: There is not of course an infantry brigade of 5,000 or more in the Falklands. What would they do? There is a major tri-service (purple) Joint Operating Base (JOB) at Mount Pleasant comprising a strategic airbase and various units – together with a… Read more »
David, the field force of all three services and the Joint Operating Bases is not, in my opinion, over-officered by senior officers. Neither are training units over-burdened by senior officers.
Criticism is however ranged against the numbers of senior officers in ‘corporate’ MOD, NATO posts and in Defence Diplomacy (DD) posts – but which posts would you cut or reduce in rank?
Intuitively (and based on my own experience of serving overseas) I feel that there is little to no scope in cutting or de-ranking NATO or DD posts.
Corporate MoD – different matter!
A boat with a MG needs a Commander? Surely not. We used to have SSK submarines with umpteen torpedos commanded by a Lt Cmdr. In the army, a Private fires a MG and is overseen by a LCpl. Fair point about the army having so many Generals – this has been said many times. However there seems to be insufficient understanding of the large number of senior staff roles and defence diplomacy jobs (for a country with global connectivity) requiring a General officer. Not sure which wiki page tells of senior British officers without an assignment – surely there can’t… Read more »
The Gib gun boat rank was justified by the need for Defence Diplomacy – which is just laughable.
I am speechless! One rank up on what would be the norm could be expected for Defence Diplomacy reasons but not several.
Archer class were commanded by a Lt (and a number had pintle mounted MGs) – don’t know about River class.
Hmm. Look at the RAF senior for N.Ireland and his equilants for Scotland and Wales.
We’ll have to agree to disagree, but, the UK Defence Force needs a haircut of ‘stars.’
I don’t think we greatly disagree. I am not averse to pruning (or haircut) if required, in fact I endorsed it. I said that there were too many senior officers in the corporate part of MoD, but that the ‘Field Forces’ (ie the deployable component of the three services) were not burdened by excessive numbers of senior officers) and the same seemed true for NATO and Defence Diplomacy (DD) posts. What I missed out was the non-deployable posts that are not in the trg org, corporate MOD, NATO or DD – and you have given a very good example of… Read more »
Dear Graham
I feel in the Armed Forces, there will be low hanging fruit…
Did I ever tell you about a highly educated Major (AR) employed full time by Border Force, who boasted how he was being paid to watch tiffies take off and land on full pay… from both Departments?
The next government will have to grip excessive rank inflation, grip the pension payments before they even start (braid scything) and certainly grip misuse of public funds by people on jaunts.
Dear David, Tiffies? With my REME background – that was short for artificer! Clearly it means something else in this context – what? An individual paid by both MoD and Border Force – staggering! I hope the next gvernment grip the size of the civil service (CS) – it has increased by 100,000 in recent years https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-civil-service-increase-jobs-2023-zq7b6cz3t ….though none of this increase is in MoD who have cut CS posts. Ruthless cuts at DE&S, which I strongly suspect has contributed to procurement cock-ups ie dramatic loss of QA inspectors in the QA organisation. Perhaps the new Govt could cut the… Read more »
Tonka = Tornado
Tiffy = Typhoon
Thanks. I have never heard those nicknames before.
The rivers are the busiest ships in the fleet maybe we should have more of them, with alterations to enable them to carry out all the roles of a naval ship. And maybe not go with the T32. Or double the amount of the T31 orders.
15″ twin mounted guns?
Flight deck recoated for F35B?
Where do I sign?
My left cheek🤭