Recent flights by Russian strategic long-range bombers over the besieged city of Mariupol have drawn significant media attention, however they have been flying strike missions since the outbreak of war in Ukraine. 

On April the 15th, the Ukrainian MoD reported that for the first time during the war, Russian Tu-22M Backfire long-range strategic bombers had been utilised over the besieged city of Mariupol. Ukrainian officials previously reported that 90% of buildings in Mariupol had been damaged or destroyed during the war meaning all this destruction had been caused without the use of bomber aircraft.


This article is the opinion of the author and not necessarily that of the UK Defence Journal. If you would like to submit your own article on this topic or any other, please see our submission guidelines.


Russian fighter aircraft can carry many of the same munitions that bombers such as the Tu-22M can carry but bomber aircraft have a much higher payload and range.

However, the Tu-22Ms if they have been operating from their home bases in Russia, have only had to fly approximately 800km to Mariupol, around a third of their combat range. Fighter aircraft stationed closer to Ukraine have been able to conduct similar bombing missions and missile launches for the majority of the war in Eastern Ukraine and further West. 

The Tu-22M strategic bombers reportedly dropped large, unguided bombs on the Azovstal Steel Plant where civilians and the remaining Ukrainian soldiers are besieged and sheltering in it’s extensive Cold War era tunnel complex. While the use of unguided munitions may have been sufficient in this scenario, due to the plant being spread across multiple kilometres, it once again highlights the issues Russia faces due to it’s limited guided munitions stockpiles. This is an issue not just affecting the Russian Air Force but also, it’s Army who have recently resorted to using elderly Tochka missiles in Ukraine. 

Guided munitions allow aircraft to release their payload at higher altitudes and at greater distances from the target and due to the persisting surface to air missile threat from Ukraine, Russian forces have been regularly utilising air-launched missiles allowing them to remain in Russian airspace and relative safety during launch. However, their limited stockpiles of advanced weaponry has meant unguided bombs, many first introduced during the early Cold War, have been widely employed.

Two TU-22 aircraft.

These unguided munitions are imprecise and require aircraft to fly at lower altitudes to hit specific targets putting them in range of MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defence Systems), thousands of which have been distributed among Ukrainian defenders. Deploying these munitions from higher altitudes, outside of effective MANPADS range, increases the spread of these weapons, causing unintended damage and increasing the risk to civilians.

On March 5th as Russian forces advanced on Mykolaiv and Russian landing ships assembled in the Black Sea, Odessa and Mykolaiv were reportedly targeted by Tu-22M bombers. The appearance of long-range bombers over Ukrainian cities appears to be designed to spread fear among the population and reduce morale and resolve as a result of the destruction and losses, rather than introducing a specific capability as relatively small ranges are involved and only a handful of bombs are dropped during most strikes, something fighter aircraft are also capable of conducting and have been doing. An example of this would be the Tu-22M bomber strike on the Azovstal Plant, which was followed days later by a similar strike by Su-34 fighters which was publicised by the Russian MoD. 

While several bomber strikes have hit military or industrial targets, many more have hit residential areas causing panic among residents and killing, injuring and displacing civilians. The UK Foreign Secretary said on the 21st April that Russian bombers have intentionally dropped munitions on “civilian infrastructure, including civil government buildings, hospitals, schools and transportation nodes.”

 

The increased activity of strategic bomber over Ukraine, is likely also linked to the slow progression of the campaign so far. Russian commanders had expected a rapid campaign with limited Ukrainian resistance, with police units forming part of the invasion force and some soldiers reportedly travelling with parade uniforms. Mariupol in particular, has endured fighting for weeks and the presence of bombers over the city is likely intended as a show of force as Ukrainian forces continue to refuse opportunities to surrender.

We can expect to see a further increase in Russian long-range strategic bomber activity over Ukraine, especially in the east of the country in the lead up to the May 9th Victory Day Parade as Russia attempts to regain the strategic initiative after repeated poor performance so far. Bomber aircraft will be a key part of this as an asset to cause fear and destruction.

Callum runs the Open Source Defence (@OSDefence) twitter account providing regular OSINT-based updates on global defence news, in particular on the ongoing crisis in Ukraine. He has a keen interest in aviation and defence and has engaged in the OSINT community for a number of years.
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Marked
Marked
1 month ago

The civilised world should be blowing these bastards out of the skies.

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Quite why aren’t we? They were dropping 3 ton Bunker Busters on the heroic people below: 2000 active and wounded soldiers, 1000’s of women and children.
When are we going to dooooo something about it like we should have done on day – 3 and declared a no fly zone. USA and Britain were doing this over Korea and fighting the bastards then. Russia is a country of born cowards.

Wolf
Wolf
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonno

It’s because of the fear of war with Russia. What people don’t talk about is that if they wanted they could have (and still can) impose a no fly zone over Ukraine under a UN mandate. This would no doubt involve NATO aircraft but if it was under a UN mandate article 5 would probably be removed from the NATO aircraft policing the no fly zone.
Although I don’t believe the Russian people should be blamed I do think that the only way the world can tell them the truth is if we impose the toughest possible sanctions.

Slava Ukraini

Ian
Ian
28 days ago
Reply to  Wolf

A UN Mandate requires a Security Council Resolution does it not? That is not possible without Russian support.

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonno

2 words. Joe Biden. Putin waited until Trump was out of office and his old friend Biden was back. Just like the old days of Obama/Biden when they sat by and did nothing the first time he invaded Ukraine.

lee1
lee1
28 days ago
Reply to  dan

Oh the Trump who has been praising Putin over the last month or so?

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Unfortunately the “civilized world” is currently being lead by an old fool that has a hard time finishing a sentence without the aid of a teleprompter and admits that he fears Putin and WW3.

Ian Skinner
Ian Skinner
1 month ago

there was visual evidence last week of these aircraft being loaded with rusty, 1950s era bombs- let’s hope this results in accidents.

Callum (OSDefence)
Callum (OSDefence)
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian Skinner

There have already been multiple instances of ancient air-dropped munitions not detonating and having to be diffused. I believe a large one caused an evacuation near a hospital in a major city in recent days. I can’t quite remember which city. The issue with these, is that their age and the poor maintenance makes them very unpredictable and unreliable so very limited accuracy can be achieved and coupled with the seemingly complete disregard for civilians, I doubt an efforts are being taken to guide the munitions onto target (such as calculating crosswind, flying at lower altitudes, avoiding targets with high… Read more »

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian Skinner

Dumb bombs Dumb Russians 50+Days of so called special operations and only now has the UN called for peace talks,

farouk
farouk
1 month ago

Russian heavy bombers over Ukraine – Why? What the author leaves out of his article is that the target for the Russian heavy bomber fleet is the steelworks which the defenders have fallen back to, under it lies a maze of underground tunnels built during the cold war to survive a nuclear strike. The normal bomb compliment of Russian strike aircraft such as the Su22, Su 34 are unable to penetrate the skin of such a redoubt and accessing my single brain cell I am unable to recollect Moscow showing off a bunker buster such as what the US has devoted… Read more »

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Callum (OSDefence)
Callum (OSDefence)
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

During the Tu-22M strike on the Azovstal Plant, released video only showed 5 bombs impacting. Strikes by Su-34s days later dropped a similar number of munitions however they may have been different types.
I am not aware of any bunker-penetrating munitions being employed however there are claims circulating of very large 3,000lb+ munitions being readied and employed against larger targets.

Nathan
Nathan
1 month ago

The resistance shown by these Eastern cities somewhat flies in the face of their supposed Russian allegiances. How on Earth does Russia think they’re going to hold these places? Is the plan to kill the local population and import people from elsewhere? I just don’t get the logic. I can imagine Russia suffering decades of armed resistance that eventually takes its fight into Russia itself. Its one thing to “de-nazify” a leadership, like removing Saddam, its another to pacify and subdue one third of a country that doesn’t want to be Russian. At least with Afghanistan we enjoyed low level… Read more »

DRS
DRS
1 month ago
Reply to  Nathan

Well seemed to have worked in Chechnya. Took years and massive casualties and war crimes. As you say eventually you see blowback back into Russia eg the Theatre Attack, the School that got attacked etc. But it seems life is cheap in Russia no matter which side you are on.

Callum (OSDefence)
Callum (OSDefence)
1 month ago
Reply to  Nathan

Many people have casually exchanged pro-Russian and Russian speaking as being the same. Additionally, many previously pro-Russian officials in Ukrainian cities have supported Ukraine’s sovreignty and defence as a result of Russia’s actions. Ukrainian officials have repeatedly reported that thousands of Ukrainian citizens have been forcibly relocated to remote areas of Russia. I’m unsure on importing people to these areas after the war, but as Kherson has shown any occupation of limited areas will not be met by silence and a change of government in Ukraine is likely impossible at this point. There was an initial prediction that a Russian… Read more »

Douglas Newell
Douglas Newell
1 month ago
Reply to  Nathan

The “resistance” in Mariupol is led by the right wing, nazi militia the Azov Battalion which recruits from the Ukrainian nationalist heartlands, who have an undying hatred of the Russians running all the way back to Ukrainian Nationalist support of the actual Nazis in WW2 (they were even more zealous in their persecution of the Jews than the German SS were). The defenders had free run of the City while the citizens sat it out in bunkers under their buildings, and they have now retreated to massive underground bunker complex under the steel plant in the vain hope they can… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

Azov hasn’t been ‘Nazi’ since 2015. When it was formally incorporated into the Ukrainian Armed Forces. It contains Jewish and Muslim Tartar members and serves the Jewish President of Ukraine. Yes some of it’s members have extremist views as do some UK military personell. I would strongly advise you not to inform SAS, SBS, RM or Paras of the UK armed forces that they are ‘Nazi’ organisations because of that.

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

You clearly do not have a clue as to how those groups have evolved in reality since 2014.

I sincerely hope that you are not accusing those esteemed British groups as having the same ethos and operating modes as Azov and the other Right Sektor operatives. If you are, shame on you and I hope you get a knock on your door.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Yaaaawn same shit, different story.

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

” ….knock on your door. ”

Doesn’t work that way in a democracy. Perhaps if you and your Kremlin friends had your way though it would be different huh??

Cauthon75
Cauthon75
1 month ago

Right, that is the plan: when the USSR disintegrated around 1990, that was just a temporary setback, they have been trying to re-capture Georgia, Belarus, now Ukraine – they may have to slow down a little, if they get to the Atlantic coast, but the long term goal is to keep on until their western border is the Pacific Ocean, business as usual. Remember what Willy Brandt said, if we do not stop them at the Berlin Wall, we will not stop them at the East German border and we will not stop them at the Rhein. Slava Ukraini!

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

The only Nazi’s are in the Kremlin, hay what! Lord Hor-Hor

Cauthon75
Cauthon75
1 month ago

The Nazis in the Kremlin call themselves Communists instead. But don’t forget, Hitler and Mussolini started as Communists and just changed the name because they did not want to take orders from Lenin and Stalin. A totalitarian by any other name would smell as sweet. 😈

David_s
David_s
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

I think Dougie, or should we say “Ivan” needs a bit of a history lesson. The hatred for Russians among many in Ukraine, which saw support for Germany in WWII was because in a very real sense there was NO distinction between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany in aims and means to achieve those aims. In 1930s two evil empires led by despots sought to grow their fiefdoms by murdering people based upon race, using every possible terror you can imagine – these two evil empires started off allied. Ukrainians, like many other minority groups were among the initial… Read more »

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  David_s

It’s nice that Russia and the GRU value the comments section on UKDJ enough to infiltrate us 😀

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  David_s

Yes well said… Hitler and Stalin were cut from the same stuff (evil) and Russia is now the new Nazi look-alike. If they act like them they might as well be Nazis.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  David_s

He is just another sad commentator with an agenda to push, same as JohininMK, kayaker and another saddo who’s avatar I have forgot….but as I have alluded to many times, one and the same as so many similarities between posts that they think we don’t notice.

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  David_s

Quite, I know someone who was brought up in E. Berlin and remembers being taught to hate the Jews in kindergarten by the Communists! They are both as bad as each other IMHO. We are British we don’t do that stuff.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  David_s

With the connivance of Patriarch Kirill Putin is trying to turn the clock back to 1686 when the Kyiv orthodox church was annexed by Moscow.
As you say, Ukrainian identity goes back a long way. Ukrainians are clear sighted when it comes to spotting evil intent.

G Hanson
G Hanson
1 month ago
Reply to  David_s

I think the hatred of Russian state originated from the farm collectivisation in the 30’s leading to mass starvation and deaths of millions of Ukrainians in a resulting famine. This drove many to sympathise with the NAZI’s who could have won in the east if they had granted some autonomy to the Ukraine and allied with them. Instead the Germans did the same and starved the Ukrainians too. Its a history/grievance like this that Fosters a meaningful Far Right response

WillDbeest
WillDbeest
17 days ago
Reply to  David_s

Top comment.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

Can I ask how much do you get paid to Troll on western media sights? Is it a good job or do you wish you were doing something better and maybe not working for genocidal maniacs?

Richard
Richard
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Payment to troll is not required when the alternative is to get broiled inside a poorly designed Russian tank.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

He’s paid in stolen loot. Nicked from poor Ukranians houses. To Russians a pair of shoes or some womens clothes are luxuries and worth looting peoples houses for and killing their owners in front of their children. The Russian army is a disgrace. Committing war crimes and crimes againat humanity all the while accusing the Ukranian people of being Nazis. Its so ludicrous its just madness. The only possible worthwhile solution is Ukraine continues to resist until Russia can no longer tolerate such high casualties and losses to military hardware. Then they might tuck their tails between their legs and… Read more »

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

I think in WW2 the Ukrainian people had a ‘choice’ between Hitler or Stalin. They chose Hitler because he did not steal all their food like Russia did and left their people alone (unless you were a jew). So it is no surprise that Ukraine sided against Russia. Quite simply Russia was cruller to more Ukrainians then Stalin. So I suspect the majority of Ukrainians hated the Russians before this war and now I suspect the Vast Vast majority of the population hate them even more.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob N

Agreed, many observers forget or don’t know just how and staying was to his own nation, or at least to those nations who were not ethnically Russian.

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

Welcome to the ‘Other side’ of this forum, those of us who take a more balanced view of what is going on and why, and for sharing the baseless rubbish thrown at us that keeps some happy here. Good comment by the way.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Yaaawn balanced? Don’t get me started, all he has to do is read your previous ranting nazi agenda posts.

David_s
David_s
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

One can tell you’re a Russian: Putin right now is sat in Moscow directing the mass murder of thousands and still probably crying himself to sleep thinking what a victim he is – just like you, spewing vacuous nonsense, and yet you’re the victim because you can only find one other Russian troll/RT devotee to listen to you. Yes, there are two sides to every story; John Wayne Gacy did not consider his victims to be human beings, so I have absolutely no doubt you would look at his case and conclude “Yeah, 3 months probation sounds about right, he… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  David_s

Put so much better than I could have done…..

Andy B
Andy B
1 month ago
Reply to  David_s

Bravo, well said 👏

WillDbeest
WillDbeest
17 days ago
Reply to  David_s

Someone is burning in Milton Keynes

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Balanced view? You need to look at what Putin is doing. He will either be master of europe or deceased. How about that for balance? Who is the aggressor? We supported Russia in 1941 because Germany was the aggressor. This time its the reverse and Russia is the aggressor. Putin being an ickle man goes back 80 years to justify his neo nazi imperialism. Beyond sad.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Got to take what is said with a pinch of salt tho. You stated the Moskva had made it to port and had 50 injured crew multiple times when other were saying it’s sunk.
I had asked for sources for where you get your info so i could see things from both sides. Can u give some, I’m genuinely interested

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

You don’t take a balanced view of anything Comical Johnski, you’re a craven apologist for war crimes committing Russian nazis. You defend nazis while throwing baseless accusations and smears at the Ukrainian nation. Crawl back under your rock.

Wolf
Wolf
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

I agree, a balanced view is right but to me it has been made very clear what is truth and what is mere propaganda. JohninMK, tell me this – do you really believe that Vladimir Putin has launched this “Special Military Operation” to de-nazify Ukraine from neo-nazi leadership whose leader is a Jew with family who died in the nazi holocaust of WW2? Do you really think that the Ukrainians are being freed by bombs landing on their houses and their hospitals?

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Greetings Comrade! Heil Putin and his glorious special military operation.

Now let’s all start goose-stepping together like good little CommiNazi Putinbots!

376AF68100000578-3749816-image-m-2_1471662588621.jpg
Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

Azov started out as a right wing football supporters club, hooligan elements, then into a small militia group during the illegal Russian annexation of Crimea. Since they were officialy incorporated into the Ukranian army they have lost their extreme elements, some of their extreme insignia and are now fighting very well fighting the real Nazis, Putins fuxking useless military. They have shown that they will fight hard for Ukraine and have shown up the Russkie military at every level. Now the Russkies can only use old dumb bombs to try and flatten their remaining resistance. Typical useless incompetent Russians. The… Read more »

farouk
farouk
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

DN wrote: The “resistance” in Mariupol is led by the right wing, nazi militia the Azov Battalion which recruits from the Ukrainian nationalist heartlands,  Regards that so called Ukrainian nationalist heartlands, it’s a huge myth promulgated by those with a political axe to grind. I’m not saying that the Ukraine doesn’t have a far right problem, but when looked at support for the far right of the political spectrum has never been an issue across the 24 Oblast (regions that make up the country. At the 2014 elections the far right polled the highest they ever in the country, that said… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by farouk
Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

Brilliant info thanks for showing the facts.

farouk
farouk
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

DN wrote: Ukraine in its current borders is a bit like Yugoslavia with bits added to it over the past 100 years from Russia, Poland, Hungary and Romania. The Communists added huge swathes in the 20th century, for example Crimea was only added to the Ukraine in 1954 by Kruschev. And? If you want to quote history in which to excuse Moscow’s invasion what say you about: The land Moscow stole from Finland in 1940 Kallingrad The Islands Russia took from Japan in 1945 Northern Cyprus The huge chunk of Syria, France handed over to Turkey in 1939, in which… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by farouk
Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

And yet again Farouk shoots and scores, and shows all of us on here how to put down in a nice way, a nazi supporting troll. Farouk, you, like Danielle, can be so much more mature than I when dealing with bell ends.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Morning mate. 👍

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago

Hi Daniele

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

If you haven’t worked out which side you are on that’s your business of course.

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

Even if that half baked rubbish you wrote were true, so what? Those people are Ukrainian, they have every right to be there and to defend their country. Whatever their political view or affiliation it is nothing to do with Russia .

The only right wing nazi militias are the Russian and Chechen military groups that are running amok in parts of Ukraine murdering all before them.

Caribbean
Caribbean
1 month ago
Reply to  Douglas Newell

From what I’ve read, the majority of the defenders are the 36th Marine Infantry Brigade, along with a few members of the Ukrainian Border and National Guards.

It’s fair to say that some of the latter may be from the former “Azov Battalion”, which was integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard in 2014.

After 8 years or so, I would guess that there aren’t that many of the original members in the successor unit, but who knows?

grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago

I see Russia is now spouting about the oppression of a breakaway region of Moldova. For those that still want appeasment of Putin in regards to Ukraine – what say you now. Those that still want to hide their heads in the sand over Crimea or fiddle while Mariupol burns. Too late …It’s coming – like a freight train…now is the time where those that see the writing on the wall need to take a deep breath and stand up to be counted. I fear for the next 5 years – but not standing against Putin now is only going… Read more »

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  grizzler

its not even like the West is franticaly rearming as we speak is it.

This actually worries me a lot, I genuinely do think we need to have a major increase in defense spending.

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago

Agreed, thanks for reminding.

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago

I suspect Russian ground forces have taken such heavy losses, that they are now letting the bombers take over.

Callum (OSDefence)
Callum (OSDefence)
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

The bombers haven’t taken over, a majority of sorties are still being conducted by fighter aircraft, their presence recently has just drawn more attention but they have been operating throughout the war. However, this is likely linked to heavy losses and limited gains and the upcoming Victory Day Parade.

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago

Shame we don’t have a few Sky Sabres to spare for Ukraine; let them down a few of these bombers.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

We may be about to see whether the Russian ground forces can take it as well as dish it out: Biden just authorised another 72 155mm towed howitzers with towing trucks and several hundred thousand rounds.

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Any suggestions as to how they will be able to make the 700 mile journey from Poland to the front (similar to London to Warsaw) when there is a diesel shortage and the rail system is under attack?

Am I right in assuming that 40,000 155mm shells and propellant would weight about 2000 tons?

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Easy, the Russian military is a limited threat, its more a basic logistics problem, easily actioned.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

You can bet if it’s needed at the front it will get there.
Still lots more is needed by Ukraine.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Correct mate.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Agree its called trucks and tankers. Simple logistics. Something a Russian clearly knows nothing about seeing as your own logistics utterly failed in Northern Ukraine whilst trying to overthrow a democratic and soverign country’s government.
I think Russia is about to get a very expensive lesson from a rapidly professionally developing Ukranian army.
Slava Ukraine

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Somehow I think they will be able to jump the queue at Sainsbury’s.
It will get there. I’ll let you do the maths…
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guide-to-lorry-types-and-weights

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Surely someone ex military here must know the approx weight of 40,000 shells?

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Not as heavy as the ‘Moskva ‘ weighs now!

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Who cares, the NATO forces have excellent logistic professionals who would sort that out. Maybe your Russkie rapists should have tried it.

Wolf
Wolf
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Apologies for this slightly off topic but serious question – is the Moskva still in Sevastopol?

Last edited 1 month ago by Wolf
Shaun
Shaun
1 month ago
Reply to  Wolf

😂

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Wolf

No she is having a deeply cleansing salty bath to sooth her nerves after a few weeks on the frontline bombing defenceless civillians, killing women and children and generally committing war crimes.

Wolf
Wolf
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Makes sense.
I would really like an answer from JohninMK though.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wolf
Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

When fired 46.3kg (103lbs) for one M155 shell. I don’t know about before fired. That was a very quick Google search.
Quick maths 1,852,000 kilos for 40,000 shells. 1852 tonnes. So even 10t loads is only 185 trips. 20t load 90 trips. Not that hard to move.
Probably still lighter than all the dead bodies and equipment being taken back to the motherland.

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Why do you care what the weight is?

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I’m glad he is beginning to see the dangers ahead.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonno

The US are adopting a deliberate just in time strategy of providing ‘defensive’ weapons to avoid provoking mad Vlad. Note the artillery is towed not SP. Nevertheless providing US heavy weapons crosses a Rubicon. I do wonder whether they were provoked into it by Boris threatening to send AS90s.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

In the days of 300km + range precision ballistic missiles I’m not sure 155mm aerially is really considered heavy weaponry or offensive weaponry anymore.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

No indeed; it’s all relative I guess. That said; my understanding is that the 155mm will outrange the Russian 152mm gun and there are suggestions that the Russians may be running out of long range ballistic missiles.

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

When attacking a fortified location like an iron and steel plant I would suggest that something a wee bit heavier than a 240mm mortar shell or even a 500kg Iskander. The Russian AF is not taking over, they are supplementing the Army with some 3000kg bombs.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Suddenly the civvy troll is a military expert. As we are chatting any condemnation of Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine?

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

And Russia needs to face 50 years of sanctions as punishment. Make it a hole in the world with nothing going in or out. They are not fit to be part of humanity.

Steve Salt
Steve Salt
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

” A fortified location like a iron and steel plant ” !?!?!
I’ve been to Port Talbot and Scunthorpe and failed to spot the fortifications at either !

Last edited 1 month ago by Steve Salt
Daniel
Daniel
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve Salt

I don’t know, if I were a cruise missile I certainly wouldn’t want to die in Port Talbot.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Fortified is something of an understatement. Its a bunker designed to withstand a nuclear strike. Vids today showed the defenders going down tens of flights of stairs and through multiple steel blast doors and through blast traps. The bunker rooms are massive and heavily reinforced with rebar concrete. Some 3k kg bombs will move the rubble around up top. They wont do anything that deep down.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Yep thats what ive just said. Not a hope in hell of dislodging or killing the steel works defenders using unguided, Non armour piercing bombs. Even a US airforce MOAB couldnt destroy these fortifications.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

And for the record do you think a dumb bomb of 3000lbs with no guidance can hit and destroy tunnels under the steel plant that are. A. Under a steel plant. B. Buried upto 6 storeys deep and C. Encased in reinforced concrete and designed to withstand a nuclear strike. My assessment would be not a hope in hell. All the Russian airforce will acheive is destruction of the above ground steel works and little to no impact on these underground structures. Still feel free to drop tons of heavy bombs….as many as you like. NATO is grateful for Russia… Read more »

Sooty
Sooty
1 month ago

And still the UK won’t increase the defence budget. Surely someone can see the writing on the wall! 1938 again.

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  Sooty

Spot on, and if Putin Joins up with the CCP, as they really want Taiwan. Things could get really nasty really fast.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Sooty

Not really, Nazi Germany was the 2nd/3rd biggest economy in the world in 1938 staffed with some of the best generals in history and operating some of the most advanced technology and weapons the human race could muster. Russia in 2022 has an economy not much bigger than Belgium, with generals not able to perform even the most basic of military tasks operating with equipment that is 40 years behind us and much of it is barley functional. That’s before being subject to the gratest barrage of precision guided weapons ever seen in human history. They are now reduced to… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Agreed mate, spot on.

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

I’d rather have a big stick and not need to use it. We need to be really careful with any assumptions being made about Russia over Ukraine. As economics matter much less when you are willing to use slaves. I’ve seen documentaries from years ago where the Russians had steel mills inside prisons and they were using forced labour to build tank hulls. We’re already seeing Ukrainians disappearing in to the interior of Russia they will probably end up as slave Labour. As for the tech those T-72 & T-80 are due to be scrapped in 2025 from what i’ve… Read more »

Martin
Martin
1 month ago

The west is militarily strong because it’s economically strong and the main reason the west starting with the UK in the 18th century is economically strong is that it refused to spend money on military expenditure above what was needed to deal with the threat environment. The soviets and now China and the CCP are going the other way and spending money they don’t have primarily as a way of maintaining domestic political legitimacy. The west already has overwhelming economic and military supremacy beyond anything the Allie’s on 1938 could have imagined. In the middle of a cost of living… Read more »

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

I should clarify I am in favour of a bit of a boost to 2.5% of GDP but that’s all I think warranted at present. Most of that increase should go on navel assets as it’s at sea from Russia and China that there is a real threat to us and our Allie’s.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Yep, balanced posts, agree.

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

I agree with 2.5%, maybe also a one-off payment of maybe £20 billion or so, e.g. to reverse army personnel cuts, upgrade all 227 Chally 2s and replace T1 Typhoons with T3s.

Same in principle as Germany is meant to be doing but we don’t need such a massive one off payment as they are planning as our forces haven’t been allowed to wither quite as much as theirs.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

👍

grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Interesting points (although Im not sure I agree with Japan tbh) However there is a fine dividing line between the two and the last 10/12 years has in my opinion strayed too far South of that line , and that needs to be readdressed- immediately. GDP is in itself a wierd standard to use for many things but if we were to go with 3% GDP , the removal of the pensions sleight of hand Osbourne introduced, a more long term strategic viewpoint based on recent events and a complete overall of the farcical procurement procecss,then I think that would… Read more »

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  grizzler

Personally, I’d go with a rise to 3% + a £20 bill lump sum and then increase it to around 4% to 4.5% over the next 20 years.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  grizzler

GDP is a strange measure. The U.K. spends I think 11% of its government spending on defence. It’s such a higher percentage compared to the 2% banded around. GDP is unrealistic as you can’t spend 100% gdp.

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

to deal with a military threat that does not really exist Hang on a sec, let me get this right. Russia has invaded Ukraine it’s coming out now they want Moldova to. They’ve threatened Sweden and Finland with the same treatment the Ukraine is getting if they dare join Nato, so they could get hit as well. Putin has also threatened to Nuke NATO if we cross certain lines with aid. This is the same Putin that’s stated time and again he wants to reinstate the old USSR borders. Which means he wants half of Europe, as he thinks it… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

I agree with most of your points but only partially with your conclusions. Militarily Russia is a joke. We shouldn’t be frightened we should be ridiculing. On the culture war your spot on. We need to confront what’s going on in our schools and universities but that’s a different kind of fight.

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

The money i want to spend on defense comes from not funding the culture war and other waste. Look at all this crap going with the migrants coming over on dingies. We’re literally funding via the foreign aid budget the NGO that are getting these people into Europe. We’re then funding the legal rights lawyers that are stopping us from deporting them. Then on top we’re paying billions a year to keep them. We’re just continuously shooting ourselves in the foot with this one. We’re also funding all these lunatic diversity officers in every council, every policing authority and every… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

Not a rant. Your pissed off and your not alone.

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

😉

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago

I dont think Russia will “win” in Ukraine. The best they can hope for is to capture large areas of the east at significant military expense and then struggle to hold onto their gains. As for Finland and Sweden. Seriously? I think those 2 countries could invade Russia and win with conventional forces. Finland and Sweden both have large, modern and effective militaries. They would be no pushovers. Russia would have to call up all their reserves and every available fighting man and woman to surpress them. They just cant do that scale of warfare. Especially with crippling sanctions hitting… Read more »

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

There won’t be money for defence, education, pensions, NHS, etc. unless UK politicians & bankers wake up & start reshoring industry to the UK.

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

👍

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Sooty

They already did, by a considerable amount.
More is needed of course. I wonder how much of the increase vanishes into black holes and R&D.
There need to be some uplifts here and there with the extra funds which we are not seeing yet, hopefully they will come.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago

I heard today that Russia has damaged or destroyed $60bn of Ukraine’s infrastructure. Is this mostly by arty or bombing from tactical aircraft? This must mean that Ukraine lacks effective Counter-Battery and/or effective anti-aircraft capabilities.
The West must supply more of these capabilities.

AlexS
AlexS
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Yeah but with what? The West should regret disinvesting from artillery.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
29 days ago
Reply to  AlexS

We are supplying about 80 AS90s, and the US is supplying some towed 155mm arty. Aren’t the French supplying some CAESARs?

Frank62
Frank62
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Indeed Graham. The only ones being restrained are Ukraine by our Rusia-compliant fears. Russia is doing whatever it likes as the west trembles. Send Ukraine aircraft & whatever is needed. Send our aircraft & troops too to push Russian forces out, close the skies to the Russian air force & restore Ukraine to the Ukrainians.
I wonder how months munitions NATO has/had in hand to fight a war, seeing as Ukraine is desperate for resupply after 2 months. The “Peace dividend” is really biting us on the backside now but we’re still in denial.

Last edited 1 month ago by Frank62
JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Frank62

What you are suggesting Frank is in effect the start of WW3. Is that what you really want? The US and NATO have refused to be drawn in. I suspect a few spreadsheets are open in NATO logistics looking at exactly the munitions issue you raise.

grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Ah ,The subsersive scare tactics again – “Don’t try and stop him or get involved cus it will blow up in yout face”….
That has been Putins ploy all along and I for one don’t buy it.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Russia is the aggressive partner and I think Europe and western leaning countries need to supply Ukraine with everything they can. It’s war and war is ugly. World war 3 will not start from nato side even if nato forces rolled up from Chernobyl to Odessa. What has surprised me is country’s like India etc and the way some of there media reports on the war. Supporting putin. The comments you can read on YouTube and other news sites is disturbing in support for Russia and hatred for Ukraine and the west. I had a friend in Indonesia asking me… Read more »

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

This should not surprise anyone, India is an ultranationalist country who’s media revels in any for of hardship or difficult inflicted on foreigners. UK is pretty much the number one country they hate but most of the western world is on their hate list. I was shocked to see Indian news casters openly calling for nuclear strikes on Pakistan after they shot down an Indian jet a few years ago. India is no friend to the west and Biden and Boris should wake up to that fact before it’s too late. The country has zero to offer the west and… Read more »

Damo
Damo
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

I think the plan from the west is to play on the China threat. India seem to be trying to curry favour (sorry) with Russia in exchange for influence/mediation with the Chinese

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

India has been subject to a lot of anti British hate in recent years. That’s incredibly sad. By 1914 Britain had long realised India should be independent. I knew people who had lived in pre-Independent and post independent India and who had a respect for the people and never said anything bad about the people or the place.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonno

So is seeing India as bastion of democracy and just like the west misguided or wrong?

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Under Modi, being Hindu is the test of being truely Indian. Is this democracy?

Daryl_Whin
Daryl_Whin
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Realpolitik works both ways. Why should India or any other non-Western country feel any moral responsibility to support the West when the West has such a long history of supporting genocides and genocidal dictators in the non-Western world if it suited their interest. I mean just post WW2 off the top of my head it had no problem supporting Maoist China against the USSR, the Khmer Rouge government against the Vietnamese, the Taliban against the USSR, the genocidal Pakistan government in Bangladesh and a whole host of Middle Eastern dictators. The western media coverage of the Taliban when they were… Read more »

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Ahh the Russian nazi propganda comes to spread more fear. Its possible to fight a limited war in a 3rd party country, not directly threatening Russias existence, without full on nuclear ww3.

Its time our leaders stopped allowing themselves to be bullied by nuclear blackmail.

Putin needs an almighty kicking to show him he can’t just roll over any border he feels like. Might as well be now rather than later, it’s going to need doing without doubt.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Ah Pooptin fan club boy. Your posts have had a reduction of pro Russian comments ever since it has been shown your army contains thrives, rapists, nonces and murderers! Where is your hurrahs for your invasion? Where are your justifications for the illegal invasion of Ukraine etc etc? Another sad sad troll who is now trying to keep a low profile while the world laughs at your shite incompetent military. And as for spreadsheets, don’t worry NATO has enough munitions and kit to supply the Ukrainians for many many years yet. Its your third rate country Russia which is suffering.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Thrives, aka thieves alas in the west we have have what we call predictive txt when we access the Internet….yes the Internet, something now no longer allowed in Nazi Russia.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Also. NATO can afford to replace munitions donated to Ukraine for newer and better weapons manufactured entirely from within NATO. So its a closed loop. We dont need to worry about resupply of advanced munitions. Unlike Russia the rich west can afford to donate as much as Ukraine needs.

Frank62
Frank62
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

If Russia didn’t want WW3 why did they start it?
But no, I don’t want WW3 or MAD, just to stand up to & stop Russian aggression before it becomes WW3. Backing off & allowing Russia to get on with it is the worst mistake we’ve made since WW2. Russia under Putin is simply reviving Russian imperialism. Nazi is as Nazi does. We see what Putin is doing.

Last edited 1 month ago by Frank62
Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Really WW3. and Russians want their country and the whole world to become a nuclear wasteland do they because of a madman tin pot dictator in the kremlin. Do us all a favour. Take out a pistol shoot him in the head and start afresh with a moderate sensible leader who doesnt want Russia to be led into oblivion.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Frank62

Phase 1 was manpads like javelin and nlaw. Next move was to xfer ex Soviet kit the Ukrainians know how to use from former Warsaw pact countries to Ukraine. e.g. T72s. Now the UK is supplying vehicles like Mastiff and Stormer and the US is supplying 155mm towed howitzers and switchblades. Seems to me there is a NATO strategy of just in time escalation to frustrate Russian advances while avoiding provoking Putin. Meanwhile sanctions are hitting Russian ability to replenish their MLRS type artillery. I think this NATO strategy will continue. Ukraine will cede ground and then start retaking ground… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

I think this infrastructure is deep strikes against railways, bridges, warehouses, factories. The idea is to cripple the Ukraine economy and degrade morale, sort of bomber Harris but with cruise missiles launched from subs in the Black Sea: not much notice. I think the S-300s get a lot of them but not all. History in Germany, UK and Vietnam suggests you can repair and keep going. They need lots of S-300 systems.
Sinking the subs would be good but I can’t see how they could do that.

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I would think that the $60B is the total damage done by both sides with by far the most done by Russia. Its probably fair to say that just about all of Ukriane’s MIC is in ruins including all its repair plants. The main assembly points for ‘gear’ coming over the border and the main marshaling yards in Lviv are also destroyed. Ukraine has done most of the bridge destruction, the Russians preferring to destroy roads and especially railways that link to the bridges. Very little of the electricity, gas, water, telephone networks is damaged. Fuel distribution, both military and… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

The Russians mostly preferred to kill and murder people then run away when the fighting with decent soldiers starts.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Oh and there’s enough fuel for the Ukrainians to start their tractors to harvest the abandoned Russkie kit. Fucking pathetic group of wannabe soldiers the world has ever seen. Absolute laughing stock

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

It’s a poop show. Country destroyed and for what? Whatever the rebuild bill is, it will happen if ukraine can hold off the invaders.
It’s going to keep getting destroyed until war stops. Looking at Mariupol and other cities they are totally destroyed. Such a waste. I can’t even imagine how much hatred someone would have from a country that causes that to there neighbourhood.

Grizzler
Grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Yep it really is soul destroying isn’t it. We have unfortunately become accustomed to seeing destruction in The Middle East and have to our shame become somewhat blase towards that.Now it’s encroaching in Eastern Europe it becomes far more visceral,we’ve not really seen the like since The Bosnian conflicts of the 90′.Ironically if this resolve had been show towards Putin in 2014 we wouldn’t be here now. Let’s hope the scale of the destruction brings those realities home to more people before it’s too late.

Jacko
Jacko
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

You have been asked more than once where you get you ‘information’ from please do tell!

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Jacko

As many information sources as I can monitor.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

FFS you are the joke of this site. In the land of the Nazis headed by your Putin, your sources are your head sheds who tell you want to say, what to read and what to believe!

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

It will be nice to see all the seized Russian assets and various central bank reserves being used for the reconstruction of Ukrainian infrastructure. Ironically, every time a Russian commander directs a strike against Ukraine, he’s helping to write that cheque.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago

Agree that is precisely what should happen. All the corrupt oligarch Putin cronies slush money should be held onto then handed over to Ukraine for reconstruction once the damn war finishes.
A footnote would be that the money goes to Ukraine after the Western allies have been reimbursed for the defensive equipment given. I dont see why UK and USA and Poland etc should be out of pocket because of Russias war. Whilst Germany and other useless EU allies sit back having done very little and have accrued little to no expense.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

Interesting that the UK will supply Challenger 2’s to Poland to free up their stock of T72’s to be transferred to Ukraine. With the US announcement on supplying M777’s to Ukraine the west seems to be getting more and more serious about the war in Ukraine. Very good news.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Who knew that NATO members not spending the 2% target and still having shit Soviet equipment would actually turn out to be such an asset. Good to see the challenger 2 getting used for something useful. They will be guarding our eastern boarder weather they are crewed by British solider or Polish.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Spot on. Everyone wins except Putin.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Is that true? Interesting tank developments. I’m going internet browsing

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Yes, I wonder if that proposal isn’t a hint to the US to ship Poland the Abrams they have bought ….

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Interesting that the UK will supply Challenger 2’s to Poland to free up their stock of T72’s to be transferred to Ukraine.

Wow, thats the first I’ve heard of that. Is it in the papers or something ???

Have you got a link mate ???

Deep32
Deep32
1 month ago

UKDJ have just put an article up.

Paul42
Paul42
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Which Challengers woukd they be? We only have very ltd numbers these days and I suspect we’re going to need those ourselves…..

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul42

I believe we have over 300. Even though 148 are required for updating going forward. The rest are in storage.

The army could increase the 148 to be come CH3 slightly to ensure the survival of the third armoured regiment which is scheduled to be re rolled to Ajax, but I would not go bigger than that on Tanks.

grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago

“rerolled to Ajax”…ever the optimist hey.
Id send some CH2 to UKr & watch how they fair ,Do the all of the rest rest to CH3- and/or look to whats needed for a new tank following Ukr , scrap AJAX and also get a proper tracked vehicle replacement in for Warrior…but thats never gunna happen (ever the pessimist).

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago

Agreed mate, three tank Regiment’s will be enough for the number of BCTs planned. More effort now should be the RA, depth fires, AD and UAV/counter UAV.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Hi Airborne,

“depth fires”

I would love to the see Army get some truck mounted Brimstone 3 that apparently is being reportedly looked at for Ukrainian coastal defence.

Even better would be SPEAR 3 to give the British Army a stand off AFV killer. Relying on the RAF to deliver Brimstone or SPEAR capabilities when they probably have less than 100 fighters available at any given time is taking a risk, if we ever have to go toe to toe with Russia and or China.

Cheers CR

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Absolutely. A system like that for the army should be NO 1 priority along with more AD systems and artillery with the likes of Excalibur complementing Javelin. Not more tanks.

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago

I’d be happy if our current in-service 227 were all upgraded. 168 (56x 3 regiments) plus 59 spares would do nicely.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul42

From Tams link…”I don’t think it’s a crazy idea,” says Gen Sir Chris Deverell, former commander of the UK’s Joint Forces Command.
He tells BBC Radio 4’s Today programme the UK has surplus tanks and could theoretically give up 79 of them without affecting operational capability.
So there you go …according to the General we have more than enough ……

Last edited 1 month ago by Paul.P
Grizzler
Grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Phew ,Thank god for generals

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
29 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

We have more than enough if you think that 148 tanks is a good number.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
29 days ago
Reply to  Paul42

We bought 386 Chally 2s and one was written off on Op TELIC following the friendly fire incident. Some years ago we declared that just 227 were active (in-service), thus 158 were placed in storage and many of those have no doubt been pillaged for spares.

Of those 227, just 148 will be converted to CR3, so a further 79 will no doubt join those 158 in storage.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
26 days ago

This is a test.

George Allison
Admin
26 days ago

This is a test, too.

Sean
Sean
26 days ago

because they’re the only bombers they still have flying(?), the rest having been shot down by the Ukrainians 😂

Farouk
Farouk
18 days ago

Test

Farouk
Farouk
18 days ago

Test
one

Farouk
Farouk
18 days ago

One

Farouk
Farouk
18 days ago
jump