Russian missile cruiser ‘Moskva’ has suffered serious damage and the crew has been evacuated after explosions on the vessel, ammunition has detonated, reportedly due to a Ukrainian attack on the warship.
On the 13th of April 2022, Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych and Odesa governor Maksym Marchenko said that Moskva had been hit by two Neptune anti-ship missiles and was on fire in rough seas. Arestovych said there were 510 crew members aboard.
The Russian Defense Ministry however said that a fire had caused munitions to explode, the ship had been seriously damaged and the crew fully evacuated, without any reference to a Ukrainian strike.
OSINT analysts reported that distress signals had been transmitted from the Moskva, and that multiple assistance vessels had appeared near the last known location of the ship.
The ‘Snake Island Warship’
In February 2022, the cruiser left Sevastopol for the Black Sea as part of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.
The ship was later used against the Ukrainian armed forces during the attack on Snake Island together with the Russian patrol boat Vasily Bykov. Moskva hailed the island’s garrison over the radio and demanded its surrender, and was told “Russian warship, go fuck yourself“. After this, all contact was lost with Snake Island, and the thirteen-member Ukrainian garrison was captured. The exchange has been translated as:
Russian warship: “Snake Island, I, Russian warship, repeat the offer: put down your arms and surrender, or you will be bombed. Have you understood me? Do you copy?”
Ukrainian 1: “That’s it, then. Or, do we need to fuck them back off?”
Ukrainian 2: “Might as well.”
Ukrainian 1: “Russian warship, go fuck yourself.”
“Ukrainian 1: “Russian warship, go fuck yourself.”
Seems to have worked!
Now it’s the warship that is f****d
😂
It has, Russian State Media has just confirmed she has sunk under tow in stormy weather. The US earlier stated she was still on fire.
Were there any casualties?
No no, it is a special underwater operation as a token of goodwill. And don’t forget, every ship can be a submersible , at least once.
there are multiple (unconfirmed) reports going around on social media that the Moskva has since capsized and sunk. Is there any confirmation of this?
We can only hope. Well if nothing else often expressed claims (most recently on a thread here) about the amazing anti missile capabilities of Russian ships has been put into context. Just looked up this (claimed) missile i.e. Neptun and has an interesting story though its roots go back to the late 70s the Ukranian modified missile is only just now coming into service with their forces (hurriedly no doubt). Great first use if so though I don’t know if their previous claim of hitting a destroyer might actually have been this missile rather than others reported. More concerningly perhaps… Read more »
If this war has done nothing else it’s exposed Russian ‘high tech’ as a contradiction in terms.
Yes on paper there kit is fab but in reality we are leaning the truth. Neptune is not that advanced, not that fast and not that stealthy… and two may have it their target.
who says Harpoon is passed its sell by date!
Read a quote from a retired US general. He said before Ukraine we saw the Russians as a 7 foot tall monster now we see they’re about 5 foot 2 !
Will thar make them more reasonable or more paranoid? My money is on the latter…
5′ 2″ might be a bit tall for a pygmy 😉
Rob Not once have I seen a yellow use by sticker on any munitions used by the Navy or is it now used too be more user friendly
We know the old Soviet era ships are really deteriorating now and that as viable blue water navy, it is the submarine fleet that preserves the status
Kursk
It looks like Ukraine has a better anti-ship capability then the RN! How ironic… it shows just how badly the UK Governments have let UK defence down…. I can only hope we are learning a few lessons and we will grow our defence budget.
JohninMK will know.
Maybe he was aboard, would explain his silence 😏
Difficult to get a signal when the dingy was bouncing around.
Are you under tow? That is one thing that the Russian navy has superior experience with!
You called? This is what the MoD in Moscow are saying
The source of fire on the cruiser “Moskva” is localized. There is no open fire. Explosions of ammunition have been stopped.
Cruiser “Moskva” keeps buoyancy. The main missile armament was not damaged.
The crew was evacuated to the ships of the Black Sea Fleet in the area.
Measures are being taken to tow the cruiser to the port.
The cause of the fire is under investigation.
UPDATE
She has just entered Sevastopol under her own power. No photo yet.
MoD in Moscow…… Those well known purveyors of truth.
Said no one ever.
Either way more shite skills and drills from your Russkie Nazis JohninMK! You’ve got to thank your mate Putin for showing the west just how fucking bad at soldiering (and now sailoring) your half trained wasters are! Coupled with rapists and tortures, add on looting, and it’s a fucking shit show! And yet you still support this illegal invasion.
Hear hear Airborne old bean. Totally agree. No fear of Russia anymore. My grandad could go over there with a few NLAWs tucked down his trousers and defeat the whole Russian army.
Methinks we have been bluffed and a bit too afraid of the Russkies during, and since the Cold War! Their kit is actually mostly shite, as is there people and doctrine!
So, … Your side not too downhearted?
Just being reported by State media as sunk…. In Sevastopol perhaps, wouldn’t be a first for a major Russian ship sinking in harbour.
BBC news said she has sunk under tow.
UPDATE Oh dear, going going…..gone!
With Glass bottom boat keep it up Ukraine could have a fleet review with Said Glass bottom boats get a good view
Nah mate. It’s at the bottom of the sea.
LMAO!!! Russian MOD just confirmed it has sunk under tow , another embarrassing event for the Russians , this war just keeps on showing up you Russians johnski lol.
He most certainly will, unless he has now been conscripted 😉
just an update on this, Russia is stating that the fire has been localised and the ship will be towed to port. So likely the vessel is at the never least afloat for now.
And for the first time we are supposed to actually believe a word the Russians say????
Dont believe it. The grainy video of Moskva on fire that is widely available on twitter. Filmed from a nearby cargo ship shows Moskva was in the middle of a large grouping of cargo ships. So well done Ukraine for targetting her whilst surrounded by maritime clutter. Really syrprised the Neptune missiles got passed the Russians famed CIWS and air defence missiles. Must have been a failure in detection and tracking surel? The video ive seen on twitter showed Moskva from 3 miles away totally ablaze from bridge superstructure back to the helicopter hangar. Id put money on Russian half… Read more »
The first video you refer to is fake. It’s a video showing a cargo ship fire in 2019, ironically, off Crimea somewhere. Someone just flipped it and added a rather crap night vision effect.
Thanks Mr Bell ,casualties? Moscow has now posted a film apparently showing the Crew of the Moskva on parade in Her home port of Sebastapol (no date shown for parade) another piece of Soviet era Propaganda I wonder when families start asking questions as too why their little Ivor wasn’t on parade with the rest of the Supposed Moskva crew? If they do ask questions then they will probably get the same response as the Kursk families an injection too the Bum and silence
Either way, it’s out of it. Nice one, whatever.
Sheffield lasted over 24 hours before she rolled over and went down I don’t know what kind of watertight integrity system that they use, but íf like royal navy she would have been at least half closed down inside the ship and that reports of it already sinking may be off.
COV went in 20mins Andy
She was hit by a stick of 4×1000 lb bombs so much more damage to COV than the undetonated exocet that hit Sheffield. Its all about effects on target, where the ship was hit, extent of blast and subsequent fire and then the ability of the crew to undertake effective firefighting and battle damage control and repair.
Coventry being a 4200 ton type 42 batch 1 destroyer was never going to survive 4x1000lb bomb hits.
I think it was 3 x 500 lb (out of 4 dropped) from the second wave of A4’s that did for Coventry and a lad I went to school with. It was the fire from the still running rocket motor on the dud Exocet that wrecked the Shef. She was scuttled after the tow through heavy South Atlantic seas became too much to handle. 41 years in the Barrow shipyard, but the Shef was just a bit before my time – still remember walking past the first of the streched 42’s (Manchester) the day the Shef was hit like it… Read more »
Both the Shef and Cov lads made up the first crew of the Manc those that hadn’t put in their 18mnt notice my bessy Oppo said they got away with so much as quite a few were devolping self coping mechanisms (Drinking) he said BOST and COST was just one constant argument with FOST staff
I served with a fair few from both ships and some of the 21 club. Some drank, some had twitches. And yes FOST got told to do one on numerous occasions.
That said the FOSTies learnt and applied the lessons when all the lessons learnt came out.
RN FF/DC was the better for it as well. Incidents on Southampton, Brazen, Broadsword, Nottingham all proved that knowing your DC and FF pays off.
Cheers Gunbuster , I remember how FOST implemented the 21 scenario too see if a ships FF and DC teams could defy the odds and save the ship working on my 20ts and 30ts stayed right out of the mayhem that ensured
Correct – the Argentinian Navy used different Bombs on their A4’s (Snakeye 500lb Retarded) which didn’t suffer the fusing problems the Air Forces standard Iron Bombs did.
I know Mr Bell my oppos were on her The Sheff could have survived if the FF Ringmain hadn’t been shattered Batch 2s had an extra Firepump installed Lessons learnt from Corporate
Applied to T23 with zoned firepumps, vent, air compressors etc.
The Exocet that hit Sheffield the warhead didnt detonate, and it was a fire that consumed Sheff. then Broke her tow and consumed by the rough seas. Atlantic Conveyor lasted about 48hrs
Johan the one that hit the Glamorgan did and the Lads were finding Chain links that were apart of the destructive package of the warhead it sliced through the dining hall turning formica into Razor shrapnel
I. Was on Antrim in 82 on the way down the mess leading rates were told for exercise to secure the mess decks for action.nobody had done it before and it wasn’t in any training program so we (the Stokers)just did what we thought was best.everyting stowed away,drawers and furniture tied together no clothing which could foul pumps and an issue if whatever tape could be found to put an’X’ on to stoop mirrors or anything that could shatter doing so.there are gaps in training and sadly they are only realised after an event.
According to the BBC and CNN, the Russians have stated that the ship has sunk.
At least they can spell sunk why didn’t we ever hear about the frigate that was also allegedly hit?
Well the Russians know they are vulnerable and we know their CIWS EW is as useless as the rest of their ancient garbage. Neptune isn’t that sophisticated as it is based on an old and not terribly agile Russian/Soviet design. It’s nearest comparator would be…..Harpoon! I wonder if the Indonesians gave a few Neptunes back? Or if what was fired was actually a Harpoonski? Neptune + bits of Harpoon guidance system? Something changed otherwise this would have been done a while back to shut down Russian naval activities. People bang on about Russian weapons systems not realising that most of… Read more »
Yes it’s really interesting as it’s seems to have been a launch of two missiles that Ukraine says were Neptune’s. Now the Moskva is a major surface warship and the Russian navy does not really have any newer major Surface combatants ( any large surface warship which is newer is still of that generation of soviet war ships). All they have actually managed to build in the last 40 years are a handful of 3500 ton frigates and a pair of 4500 ton frigates. So if one of their updated 12,500 ton armed to the teeth guided missile cruisers can… Read more »
Not particularly surprising considering, at least from what I have heard, that much of the Soviet shipbuilding happened in Ukraine, hence why they had problems with maintaining or replacing junk like the Kuznetsov. This is exactly why I don’t agree with the UK focusing too much surface fleet shipbuilding in Scotland.
I agree.
At least Appledore and H&W are not being turned into flats.
Most of the high end metal work was done in Ukraine. Even things like rocket engine parts and some of the high temperature jet engine parts were made there.
I think this is part of the real reason that Putin went in as they could not fulfil export orders as supplies were cut off post 2014.
Seriously, Russian warship gets hit by anti ship missiles in the Black Sea and you have a dig at Scotland for building ships?
He didn’t mean it like that. To me, he meant centralisation in one place. Lose that place and you are in difficulties.
However, we build fast jets in Lancashire and no one bats an eyelid.
Are you worried about the Lancastrian separatist movement?
Nope! Just trying to understand what Christopher meant. I’ve no issue with out ships built in Scotland either, it’s our SOE for them.
Shame about the rate of production if we’ve got the venture building, why isn’t another t31 being built with venturer?
No the Cornish!
Personally I would like to see the re-instated kingdom of Wessex, make Sherborne its capital for the crack. Let’s be honest all the best bits of the U.K. are in the kingdom of Wessex.
**** Scottish independence bring back Northumbria 😀
AND the Mediterranean fleet I’m hoping that more than 5 t31’s will be built, the T83 destroyer will come from the T26, harpoon and/torpedoes will be put into the archers,the batch2rivers will get th Thai navy fit to their river derivative KRABI (A76mm oto melara rapid)and two extra 30mm cannon aft of the bridge wings and called corvettes. Not much to ask is it?
Including the statues of Alfred the Great
I think its the Cornish bunch
Good comment. A little less digging at the Scots, even allowing for the shrill crap that comes from the SNP and parts of the net, would raise the calibre of the debate.
I don’t think anyone is having a go at the Scots. I don’t think it will happen but if Scotland leaves UK our surface warship building capacity will go with them. It’s a statement of fact.
If Scotland left the union hardly anyone would notice
We’d have too deport quite a few jocks to Rwanda
Who knew Rwanda was the place to go. What I want to know is if say an Afghan linked to the U.K. or A UKrianian is intercepted getting into the county illegally are we going to send them to Rwanda ? All seems a bit random to me, I wonder if the Home Secretary wandered around random second and third world countries with a wad of cash trying to find someone who would take immigrants for cash….its sort of counter slavery….we will send you this worker and a wad of cash. smells of crap Badly thought out idea to me,… Read more »
Very badly thought out. Unless and until they manage to get the Nationality Bill thru the Lords, they cannot do it. Looks as if the main purpose of the announcement was to distract from the fines levied on The PM and Chancellor. Called something like “Exercise Save Mad Dog”.
Yes it’s all a bit well timed “ save lame mutt”
I think that putting it out on the ether is a scare tactic too those about too pay smugglers why pay only to be sent back to Africa ? Johnathan
Or mullet70’s haircut
…and they kept the whole 9 or 10 months discussions ‘secret’ – no Parliamentary debate. The first we hear of it is when Patel pitches up in Rwanda to sign the paperwork.
But it is better than just opening the door and leaving it open. If they want to deport those who are here they should have been stopped in the first place
And politicians
Just remember the ‘our’ when you referring to warship building capacity also includes Scotland. It’s like if Scotland did become independent someone in that nation saying ‘our’ aircraft building capacity is at risk because it’s in England so to be safe some of that carport should be located north of the border.
Wow.
Yes one might have thought the similarity can be seen and accepted without the knee-jerk reaction that it’s an attack on Scotland. It doesn’t matter what part or your Country it is, it’s the question of whether it’s likely to NOT be part of your Country at some state in the foreseeable future that’s the ACTUAL point.
Until it isn’t this is one country. ‘Our country’ 👍
I’ve got no dog in this fight but, surely, it is two countries? However, joined by union.
Jocks want to go and get the majority, feck em off at the high port. I’ll start buying the popcorn now.
The past few governments should have invested in reopening the still existing yards in the north East. There are quite a few marginal seats up there. More jobs are always a good vote winner.
Really good point, if there was actually a vote and Scotland left the U.K. It would be a major problem rebuilding U.K. warship building.
But Nicole will be worried about English forces mustering on the border and recognising the English Republic of Faslaine Johnathan
‘Nicole’ ‘Papa’ Have you got Sturgeon confused with that attractive young lady from the old Renault adds ?
My word David you must have a Commercial phonographic memory or ate you Nicola’s Dad ?
Not her dad ! 😁
So you didn’t get the Royalties for all those adverts £££££🤲££££
😂😂I would have been happy to be paid in kind ! Ok gonna stop there this is not that kind of site.
Now let’s be honest Nicole was…. well let’s leave it there as I’m now a middle aged married man.
If Scotland breaks away i’m up for recognizing the Kingdom of Galloway, Shetlands & Orkneys when they go for independence from Scotland.
Must admit I didn’t realise that all the major islands were Norwegian once so surely have a historical right to independence.
Shetland is closer to Norway than it is to Edinburgh
Shetland a s Orkney would ask for a vote to return to the U.K. I have family up there and they don’t do independent from the U.K. at all.
Do the Cyprus thing and make it a sovereign base area. Could also do the same with Lossie….
Could dothat for Holy lock Faslaine and Helensburgh nice one Gunbuster
As we have discussed here before with Gunbuster, Russian warships are indeed utter death traps, they were absolutely horrendous 25 years ago and now they will be an order of magnitude worse!
Holes cut through bulkheads to route new highly flammable cabling, virtually no one trained in fire fighting and little in the way of firefighting equipment anyway….
A horrible way to die…
In 78 visited Gydansk on Hms London had a look round an OSA 2 some of their crews slept by the internal stowages for missiles and we thought Hardlay pay was needed for our sleeping arrangements if your Pit was in the mess Square
I read somewhere that they fired a decoy missile first then fired two Neptunes in quick succession. The decoy missile was something else.
Turkish drone winning the votes at present.
The Type 42 was commissioned 9 years before, it also had a supposedly professional crew.
It did I was part of the staffing at h.m.s phoenix which was the fire and damage control training establishment. All R.N sailors are light years ahead of the majority of navies in this field
Ah! That’s why RN warships are FFBNW, they are hiding photon torpedoes given their light years ahead sailors and technology.
Did Phoenix John knott put the dampners on that establishment It was then up too Horsea or Rayleigh until HMS Excellent came on line loved every minute of a 2day FF course ( Black and White minstrel show ) oh and black Snot for a week
NBCD35Q course was the one to do… Loads of FF, DC, CBRN, Stability etc. Visits to civvies especial the Southampton Fire Brigade fireschool. Hornsea Lake still sucks though and it was a lot of death by PowerPoint when in Excellent. .
There are reports that there was loss of life when the Moskva went down while under tow.
Maybe I’m being naive but, if the ship is in a good enough condition to be towed, surely things can be organised so that everyone can get off if the sea state gets the better of you?
See comment on type 42 losses in Falklands. RN learnt a lot. Larger ships are better than smalker light escorts for damage absorption. Distribution within the hull of critical components and redundancy etc. CIWS and point defence missiles now fitted on RN warships. Improved radat vs sea skimming missiles and saturation air attack. Sheffield was lost to an undetonated exocet that caused a large midships hull breach and extensive fire damage. Floundered whilst under tow to South Georgia due to wave water ingress. Coventry was hit by 4x1000lb bombs drop by a skyhawk from low altitude high speed attack. Very… Read more »
Hindsight ,IF cov hadn’t altered to Stbrd and crossed in front of Broadsword and Broadswords Seawolf had a clear Shot I wouldn’t be bothered about May 25th
Look how hard ardent died as well, a 3000 ton warship that had mobility even after a couple of 1000Ib bombs.
It will be interesting to see how sanctions will impact on the repair and maintenance of their navy. They may not be able to fix damaged kit.
They’ll have too call in salvage experts too refloat her and the best salvage experts are Dutch oh their NATO ,
The French were still supplying state of the are cameras and laser rang finders for the Russian Tanks and Aircraft up until a few weeks ago, their excuse was that as the contract’s were signed before the Russian invasion of Crimea they were not subject to the sanctions. They have since stopped delivery due to the scandal on the French media. I just hope the RN has a rethink about retiring the Harpoon as this Neptune system is of similar ilk and capability and it still works so we might as well keep the Harpoons on the RN vessels as… Read more »
A point that I have been making for a while but when I do it just attracts loads of abuse….and to be fair so has @GunBuster.
I would say that upgrading Harpoon to the latest block would be the best interim AShM as it is a kit based upgrade that can be had for a fixed price.
The upgraded Harpoon has some pretty handy electronics and can be retargeted in flight.
Save the pennies and then go the Anglo French effort which will be a step change better.
Considering the age of our Harpoons wouldn’t it be cheaper or at least better value for money to buy a new build AShM ?
It might well be but the issue is we’d have no AShM until at least 2030 if we just wait for that.
Really we should have an interim missile until FCASW is ready.
In both cases need to be launchable from F35 and ideally Typhoon as well as ship to ship.
F35 we’re back to the same old problem. Waiting for Block 4 before we go all in. Typhoon or even just 1 sqd of sounds doable. Poseidon would be ideal if only we had more of them.
Marte-ER is already integrated on Typhoon.
Have found no evidence for that. Do you have a source ?
Part of the Typhoon for Qatar contract.
It isn’t integrated. Just a nice picture exists of missiles fitted to a Typhoon for PR pictures. But it could be integrated.
We could make very good use of this particular missile @ John Hartley. “Conceived and developed as a multi-platform intermediate-range anti-surface weapon system capable to be launched from naval platform and coastal battery, rotary-wing and fixed-wing platforms, including both combat fast jets such as the Eurofighter Typhoon and advanced training/attack platforms, the Marte ER features a 3.6 length constant 316 mm diameter airframe with a new propulsion package based on a Williams International WJ-24-8G turbojet and new fuel system with a single ventral intake allowing the missile to achieve a range of beyond 100 km. During NAVDEX 2019 MBDA unveiled… Read more »
The CDS command and control suite can be provided in two forms, either a single shelter hosting both sensors and the C2 suite, or a two-shelter system, one dedicated to C2 and one to sensors, which can be deployed at 1 km distance linked by fibre-optics, a safer solution in case of use of anti-radar missiles by the enemy. The standard C2 shelter architecture includes two-console, each with two screens, one for the sensor officer and one for the tactical control officer, however, a third console can be added. The sensor suite includes radar and optronic systems; Italy’s GEM and… Read more »
I thought that was generally what he was suggesting get a new build but asap interim or otherwise. I know there are cost implications but I rather like the idea of having two options anyway including whatever new build was obtained now and installing it on or moving it to say T45 and let it run on into the lifetime of those vessels as we install the new Anglo/French missile systems onto all new ships. At least it means we will have some anti ship capability throughout and cover any delay in the system under development. It also means not… Read more »
The smart move is to buy a limited quantity of NSM. It’s clearly an easy integration effort, very new with lots of users including some major allies (Norway, Poland, US and Australia), could be moved to other vessels as FCASW arrives, or could be easily moved to a land battery, which is a capability we’ve lacked since the 90’s when the Exocet Excalibur system was retired. The best way to get it is as a dual deal with Norway…we buy NSM, they join with us in adapting Stingray for P-8 Poseidon (we both use Stingray already). Add in buying the… Read more »
Sounds like a plan.
Geez can we make you Min of Defence, would do exactly what we need.
NSM was selected as an RN stopgap ASM, but the project was canceled for lack of money… we would just carry the gap… that ‘wisdom’ looks more and more foolish…
Odds of FCASW being certified on F35s and P8s is in all likelihood very small though so that leaves us with one missile for two platforms, another missile for another two platforms (assuming Typhoon gets FCASW) then a weird smorgasbord of four lighter missiles strewn haphazardly across the aviation fleet.
Where’s the consolidation and what loses its ASuW capability?
Yes, as posted previously the RAN here are fast forwarding their NSM onto both the Hobarts AAW destroyers and Anzac Frigates, I think it was to 2024 so this timeframe should also doable by the RN. And I think the air launched versions plus LSRAMs for the P-8s and F35As and also TLAMs for the Hobart’s. There must be some grounds for commonalities here despite different navies and prime areas of operations. If there’s mk41 vls space on the T45s why not utilise this and go for side silos/ExLS for the CAMM as shown the Spartan and Venator concepts? Seems… Read more »
And even the latest T31 Arrowhead for Poland now showing 4×4 AShMs plus possible 32+CAMM? Quite punchy. Hope the T31s have the same potential, even half of this would be good!
RAN is certainly ahead of the RN. I think the Type 45 ship has sailed on NSM. Type 31 on the other hand.
I think the current T45 Sea Ceptor planned fit is good but too slow in delivery. I would just speed up delivery and add 4 quad NSM in the area where the Harpoon was fitted. Latter on you could fit a better replacement.
The accelerated RAN NSM buy also means RAN Harpoons which are Block 2 as against older RN Block 1C, will potentially become available. They are much newer & RAN has 11 ships fitted with them. None of the Harpoon system is reusable by NSM, so electronics & canisters as well as the missiles could be obtainable. The original interim AShM plan was for less than half this number of ships fitted, plus RAN war stock reloads could be used to replace the existing 1C missiles on existing ships. Perhaps an affordable interim buy.
I’d agree the latest Harpoon performed very well in testing.
Maybe but it is still slow compared to the latest missiles that are super/hyper sonic…
I would say it is better to have, than not have, If we get rid of Harpoon and wait till the 2030’s for a potential replacement we will have ships at sea with no offensive capability, it is extremely limited at the moment with an over reliance on 6/7 SSN’s that simply cannot be every wear at the same time. If we look at our potential adversary’s in the next few years Russia and China have to be at the top of the list and what the war in the Ukraine is showing us is that state of the art… Read more »
Perfect idea is buy Neptune anti ship missiles from Ukraine. It gets them money which they need. I gets the U.K. new interim anti ship missiles and they don’t cost a fortune. A win win all round.
Maybe the UK can work with Ukraine on upgrading its Neptune?
Although considering the fact a 12,500 ton cruiser was taken out by a 150kg warhead, maybe something smaller with a greater load out is fine, spear 3 for instance. After all the warhead size of the Cold War heavyweight anti ship missiles was about countering the Sverdlovs 4 inches of belt armour. i would imagine 8 spear 3s would do for a project 1164 cruiser, on the Moskvas performance. But also Harpoon would clearly would still do the job as well, so if an update is cheap we may as well do as you said and life Extend harpoon as… Read more »
But was Moskva totally taken out? She did not sink. I would have thought she would have sunk if 2 good AShMs had hit her?
Is the Moskva now a heavily armed cruiser significantly affecting the balance of power?
“Taken out” indeed.
Nobody has indicated where the ship was hit and we won’t until the satalites pictures are made available
There is a decent video on twitter taken from about 2-3 miles away. She was hit amidship. Then a huge conflaguration likely from secondary explosions of her S1000 vulture cannister mounted heavy anti ship missiles.
Total loss.
It’s actually pretty hard to sink a warship, especially big ships, unless the sea state is being a bit brutal. Reviewing the damage that second war cruiser took before floundering is scary. Although a Second World War cruiser had a thicker skin that a modern cruiser size warship, the modern warship has greater internal compartmentalisation. Generally speaking cruiser sized warships have alway taken a Number of big punches to sink them. as an example the Belgrano may have stayed afloat if it had all its water tight compartments sealed, there was a reason conqueror fired three Mark 8s Totalling a… Read more »
It’s sunk. Been on bbc news amongst other sources. Sunk while under tow.
Sorry too say this Johnathan but the Sea state in San Carlos Waters wasn’t exactly Harry roughers but we still lost 2 type 21s
Harry Roughers!
I cannot say things like that out here nobody bar Mrs Gunbuster has a clue what I am saying.
Harry Redders? = It’s hot…
Harry Black Maskers? = Masking tape.
👍👍👍
Hi Tommo But the 21s died hard for such small frigates the Ardent especially, she took 2 bombs exploding aft as well as an unexposed bomb but keep steaming, them had a further set of hits from bombs that mobility killed her and some near misses exploded and Sprung her hull open. So she went down after taking a couple of 1000pound bombs, a load of 30mm cannon fire and a few 500 pound bombs, staying afloat for 12 hours to get the crew off was impressive. Just shows what to can take to actually sink a modern warship (… Read more »
Great answer. I learned a lot. Many thanks.
Takes a lot to sink a ship….ammunition and secondary fires sank her. Lots of crew lost despite the official statements. ‘Choppy seas’ according to the Russkies 😂😂😂😂
Hi graham, I use “taken out” as a shortening for taken out of the conflict, floundered or mission and mobility killed with no ability to be repaired within the timeframe of the present conflict is all Taken out, as I don’t like needless deaths I would alway preffer a limped home and in dry dock for 2 years over sank with all crew.
2 words. Secondary explosions Moskva was hit amidships close to the externally carried S1000 vulture heavy anti ship missile cannisters. This is the problem with Russian or more accurately soviet warship design. They displayed a frightning number of externally mounted weaponry covering almost all available deck space. When hit these weapons are a very very high risk of secondary explosions. Moskva was destroyed yes by Ukraine successfully tracking, targetting and hitting a premiere Russian warship but its own weaponry exploding caused her loss. Therefore all Soviet era Moskva, Udaloy, Sovremy class warships are at risk of being similarly destroyed. All… Read more »
Yes most warships designs tend to try and protect the stuff that goes bang… Soviet designs do seem to have worked on the if you’re hit your done mindset. which if you are a totalitarian state makes morbid sense. After all it’s easy to mission kill a ship and as Cold War doctrine was always any major Soviet nato war would be over in weeks, there is little sense in keeping a damaged ship afloat, better to make it as offensive as possible so it can do the most damage before dying. So maybe it was by design that the… Read more »
SP, You’re my mate you are!
Yep looks like Harpoon isn’t as obsolete as everyone thought. Yes it needs an upgrade and a data link for modern ROE but subsonic sea skimmers with a step down or pop up terminal phase still have a place.
Totally agree!
France €152 million & Germany €121.8 million in military sales to Russia since the 2014 embargo.
As I understand France main contribtution for Ukraine has just been a few dozen milan anti tank missles.
As I understand it was only external pressure which had prevented the sale of two Mistral class ships to Russia for €1.2bn.
The French tried to sell the Russians two of their nice helicopter landing ships. They were eventually pressured out of it. The French are a disgrace. They just don’t think right.
For someone so keen to eradicate ‘Nazis’ Putin sure has a lot of extreme right wing friends. If Le Pen gets in she’s keen to keep taking oil and gas.
The French were under contract by the Russians to build 2 Mistrel’s but after the invasion of Crimea there was so much flak from the rest of Europe and Nato they (France) then sold them off cheap to the Algerians.
Pity that the RN didn’t get one of them at a discount!!
With outside toilets the French way
Wasn’t it to Egypt not Algeria?
Correct, they went to Egypt.
The French? We gads Mann surely thou dost jest that would be unthinkable even if they’ve got previous for doing it will the Exocet in the 1980’s
The French will sell anything to anyone. During the Falklands they were supporting Super French planes and missiles as the UK was fighting Argentina. The have also sold kit to China and see it as a customer. I suspect this was one reason they went mad over AUKUS, they did not want to have to chose sides and loose a customer. The fact they are selling to Russia does not Surprise…
The French have previous for clandestinely supplying missiles and parts to nations going back as far as the Falklands when it sold Exocet to the Argentine’s
Amusingly the Moskva itself was built in Ukraine.
Sunk near where it was made. I found out today it the class have 10 533mm heavyweight torpedoes that a fired from doors near the back.
On paper the ship has good air defences . S300f missiles, OSA anti air missiles and 4/6 kashtan 30mm CIWS.
What a mess the war is. Russias kit is going to be decimated. Hopefully they give up soon.
Perhaps it was a RN Harpoon that is being said to be a Neptune… we said we would give them anti-ship missiles.
US sources (Atlantic Council) say that the UK has supplied Harpoons to Ukraine.
I know Ukraine made most of the sensors for a Russian weapons, in particular the air to surface Kh32s. New factories were set up in Belarus and Russia, to reverse engineer these sensors. But I believe they were having issues sourcing some of the components. Might explain why they’re being so frugal with guided weapons and using dumb bombs and rockets instead.
France also supplied the optics and fire computer for the latest T90s. That were then being built in Russia. They also pulled the plug on those. I’m not sure what they’re using instead!
Never trust the frogs it was them, you must remember sold the Exocet to Argentina then said they hadn’t.
The Anti-ship missile will do to the surface fleet what the anti-tank missile is doing to tanks. I’ve had quite a few lively discussions on this site with people who remain skeptical about how effective AShM are and I remain convinced that these things are lethal to any surface vessel not equipped and crew not rained properly. It has not been confirmed if this ship was hit by the Ukrainian neptune missile but if it was, it is noteworthy that the neptune isn’t even considered one of the more advanced AShM out there. Not hypersonic, not stealthy and likely not… Read more »
👍
So was it really a Neptune missile. There’s quite a few NATO jets flying ‘air policing missions’ in neighbouring countries. LRASM is stealthy and has a range of 500km. 🙂
Two things I read that might help explain what happened. The fire control radar (the one with the ability to look in detail) on the Slava Class only has a 180 degree aspect and its was claimed that the Ukrainians had a drone up at long range from the ship, but in a direction away from the missile approach. The other thing was that there was a storm in the Black Sea yesterday evening. Neptune is an all weather system.
True, if tanks are obsolete because of anti-tank weapons then so are all AFVs. Dismounted men are obsolete because of the myriad ways they can be killed or wounded by anti-personnel weapons. This inescapable but bizarre logic would cause you to disband armies.
Tanks fitted with an active protection system are not out of date.
Thanks rob. You beat me too it. Does of course mean only buying 60 Trophy APS for our fleet of 148 proposed Chally 3s is madness. Trophy needs fitting to ever Chally3, Ajax (if it ever enters service) Boxer, Warrior (until retired but as long as in service it needs Trophy) AS90, MLRS, etc etc. In essence every armoured vehicle going into a conflict zone. Not sure what the price per Trophy unit is but surely better than taking the casualties Russian army has taken, which British army at current size couldnt sustain or tolerate.
Is trophy system really that good against all incoming missiles and rounds? I don’t know much about how good it is. I know roughly how it works. There will probably be a way to beat it somehow.
If it comes that all incoming threats can be defeated that is a fantastic capability and a real game changer
I don’t hold to the view that tanks are obsolete, whether they have APS or not, although it is clearly better that they have it rather than not.
I was narrating the ridiculous logic that follows if anyone thinks tanks are obsolete merely because a counter exists, then everything in an army’s inventory including its soldiers would be obsolete.
Tanks (and any other hardware) will only be obsolete if and when most tank-owning nations take them out of service.
Although it’s not as laughable as you may think. The way heuristic AI is going as well as things like quantum communications we may see battle spaces filled with nothing apart from massive swarms of drones that would overwhelm any human based assets and can only be combated by another drone swarm. The future battle my be dominated by loads of drone swarms murdering each other. Last drone swarm standing wins.
Forecasts can be wrong. Sounds like when the death of the music CD was predicted 20 or more years ago. I still listen to mine.
That because your old Graham, sad but true. I’ve finally begrudgingly given up on my CDs after it was explained to me that I could simple say an artist or album and it would play for me in any room I so wished…..never looked back. The world moves on even if you don’t.
Looks like the Russian doctrine of maximum firepower and mobility applies to the design of their ships as well as their land based armoured vehicles. The T-72 was found to be a glass cannon with appalling ammunition stowage. Evidently their major surface units are the same, formidable firepower but limited defensive measures. If the crew has been evacuated then presumably there’s no more damage control measures and she’ll likely sink?
Putin has lost. The Russian forces might stay on, even claim ‘mission accomplished’ but the war and its aims are lost. My fear is that that nasty bastard will pulverise Ukraine regardless.
Hi Barry, yes, Putin could get very nasty in not accepting defeat and pushing in regardless. Let’s hope that the Ukrainian’s are well armed in quantity and quality to take them on wherever in their homeland and win through in the end. I wish the West would not keep broadcasting to the world exactly what they are sending and how much. They hopefully are sending more than they say. I hope the Russian forces in Mariupol treats the Ukrainian POWs (if reports of their surrender are true and not staged) with respect but not sure that they will not to… Read more »
I don’t think we are broadcasting everything TBH.
It would be pointless denying the fact that the Ukrainians have loads of NLAWs.
Other things are broadcast as a deterrent effect such as the anti aircraft weapons. The Russians cannot fly low because of Starstreak and they cannot fly high because of the remaining S300’s that the Ukrainians have.
I’ve been wishing for this war to be a bit more subtle and under the radar but this is not really possible, it’s bloody and nasty. I agree on demonstrating a “deterrence” factor to the Russian forces. The Russian’s do seem to like threatening with their ability to lob things over the fence into Ukraine. Hope the Ukrainian forces can land some knockout punches on that bloody long convoy, blow the Kerch bridge up and sink some more fat naval vessels lying around just to shut up their bloody silly propaganda for a moment at least! The ruling political elites… Read more »
Never mentioned Martlet and any state of the art will not be until it’s spotted I suspect.
When you look at video from Syria and Ukraine shelling the hell out of civilian areas is pretty much Russias default war strategy. Short of chemical weapons (god forbid) I don’t know how much worse the Russians could get.
FOAB just behind the Ukranian frontline in the East. They would probably see that as not crossing the continually moving red line set by NATO/US
You’re talking about chemical weapons. Took me a while. Safe to say I hope you’re wrong.
According to the BBC althogh not confirmed, Russian troops have been removing dead Civilians and having thr Bodies cremated with their portable crematoria’s too hide evidence of WAR crimes
Sorry not getting notifications. Yeah they’re bastards but they’ve not gone as far as Syria yet with chemical weapons. The only positive I can see is they wouldn’t be able to go ‘not me guv’ Assad can’t reach Ukraine.
More likely a missile strike rather than a fire (as reported by Russian media) Either way it makes the Russian navy look incompetent. To lose such a large capital ship so easily is a massive blow to morale.
I was wondering the same, The Slava class has some very old AA missiles, as you said, maybe they put too much effort into the offensive weapons and have not tested or trained their defences for missile attacks?
Neptune missiles are a derivative of the original russian KH35/ SSN 25 Switchblade sometimes called a “Harpoonski”. Its similar in many respects to the original western made Harpoon missile. If the Moskova was hit by 2 of these missiles chances are they will go for the biggest radar reflective area. That would appear to be right underneath the missile launchers down the port/stbd side. Those cutouts beneath the missiles are massive radar reflectors. A slava’s radar is hardly state of the art . It doesn’t have a fast rotation speed when compared to say a T23 or T45 and its… Read more »
I agree with all of that.
Oh I don’t know. The Argentine Navy doesn’t hold many records. They might be cheesed off ! Still hold the record for the only warship to turn turtle while tied up alongside so that might help !
Some of the Argentinian’s still think they sank HMS Invincible…
Mind you some think we sank the ARA Santa Luis….the only RN ship within 2000 miles was a River Class patrol Ship…in many ways it would have been worse to have been sunk by one of those (which has no ASW kit or weapons) than to just have had an accident…
I know apparently it’s still on the AAF’s homepage with accompanying picture of USS Hornet being sunk by the Japanese Navy during WW2. ARA Santa Luis was messed up even for the Argentine Navy. A sentence you don’t hear very often.
Such a sad pointless waste of life.
A submarine that should never have been in service due to its poor condition.
If they had got the Sinvincible We wouldn’t have had any trouble with Andrew Winsdor
Cheers Gunbuster. Good detailed reply. Just checked Belgrano and Moskva are roughly same didplacement give or take full loading.
So they are vulnerable to anti ship missiles but we still don’t see the sense in arming our ships with them. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so tragic.
Spearfish torpedo, Stingray torpedoes. Martlet & Sea Venom. Sea Ceptor has a secondary anti ship capability for small craft, and Spear 3 will also be able to saturate a warships defenses. Nothing is laughable or tragic.
The usual sad excuses.
How many subs do you think we have? Of them how many are available? Of the available how many are likely to be in the right place?
The other systems you mention are for small craft. If you think anything would survive to get in range to launch against a large ship you’re deluded.
Spear 3 is the usual jam tomorrow story.
If you don’t think having a navy with next to no ability to sink enemy ships is tragic then your are beyond help.
It’s not like the raf can even help either!
The only thing that is tragic is your reply. We are part of NATO. It isn’t our 7 Nuclear subs against the rest of the world. You need to educated yourself pal.
Other NATO countries don’t leave long range, heavyweight SSM’s off their escorts (even the countries that underspend on defence against the 2% target). I think that the RN is in a sad minority of 1 because of bean counting not as a result of a thorough analysis of the capabilities it needs to have and those that it can rely on others for
How many escorts do the Dutch, Danes and Norwebians have out of interest to escort our ships in the North and Arctic seas. Can’t always rely on the US having too many spares to protect them and the subs will have their prime task of finding and trailing Russian equivalents.
Probably about 10 or so ASW assets between them, throw in 5/6 German ASW ships and our 8 T24s, and you get just shy of 24/25 ASW ships. Clearly all wouldn’t be available at the same time, but you get the gist, not to shabby a force if required. If you include the US (Atlantic fleet), Fr and ourselves, we probably outnumber the available Russian SSN force by some 3 or 4 to 1. Yes we would still have to deal with their SSBN force, but then again they would have to deal with ours to. I suspect we could… Read more »
You already know you played top trumps when you cited our 8 T24s (sic) and you of all people know there is a fraction of that fleet at sea.
Equally, other NATO forces have similar issues, so, yes, quire shabby for the Atlantic, North Sea, Arctic climes.
Don’t answer, are all the Atutes at sea?
Ah typo on my part. Should of course have said T23. Numbers I stated are roughly what those countries have in ASW ships, clearly not all available at any one time as posted!
Assume it referring to an Astute with your last line,?? No idea, less then 4 as that’s all we’ve currently got in service. Do you know then?
You need to look at a map pal. The other nato nations also have their own waters and defence to look after. You have the naive assumption everyone is going to make supporting our toothless navy a priority. Carry on deluding yourself if it makes you happy.
I don’t think defence is for you Marked. your angry comments are so wide of the mark. Anti ship warfare is incredibly complicated. The kill chain, find, track, engage is very complex. We use helicopters to sink ships in the littoral, nuclear subs to sink big vessels. Just 1 or 2 Astute class could create havoc for any fleet. They are the best anti ship killers in the world. Surface vessel anti ship missiles are mainly as a fall back option. To target a moving warship at great range, that could be a low observable design, deploying EW and ECM,… Read more »
This bizarre belief that people have that somehow escort vessels will be launching Heavyweight ASMs at each other from hundreds of miles away. Some the radar and electromagnetic horizon/conditions don’t not matter if you have a large anti ship missile with a range of 200miles.
I think a lot of people also underestimate what an SSN is. How strategically mobile they are compared to surface vessels and what deadly weapon a heavyweight torpedo is to a surface ship. There is a profound lack of understanding of What a single western SSN means.
We’ve far to much for the Russian navy fact
We certainly wouldn’t need any help from Nat fighting Russian. UK would win easy . The bloke replying to you is a Russian troll taking sh..
Can’t believe how deluded you guys in here are. The royal navy has absolutely nothing bar a couple of available subs to fight off a surface threat.
Really! What do you propose our surface fleet fires at them? Strongly worded insults?
As the only navy that has actually fought a blue water engagement post 1945 the RN does have reasons why ASM ship and aircraft launched are seen as secondary weapons.
Did you miss the fact that anti ship missiles caused heavy losses in that war?
Did you miss the fact that Russias flagship had just been lost to the same weapon type?
It’s true that anti ship missiles caused heavy losses in the Falklands war, but they were air launched from aircraft, or in HMS Glamorgan’s case a shore battery. There isn’t one example of a missile being fired from a ship and I honestly can’t find one case of a surface combatant detecting, tracking and launching ASM against a modern warship.
Yes but none of these missiles were launched from ships. The RN has probably the most combat experience of any navy in the last 40 years and has never fired a ship launched anti ship missile in anger.
Ummm, I think you may be being a bit extreme here. You have to look at the who Navy and it’s operations not individual ships. Russian surface vessels are armed as they are to be surface raiders, they are designed strike targets for as long as they can before dying. Western and specifically the RN escorts are escorts they are there to keep shipping lanes open and defend other assets. The RNs key strike assets revolve around air and undersea. Yes we only have a few SSNs but one SSN can hunt and kill any number of surface ships, Infact… Read more »
I agree with you regarding Spear as long as the F 35 can get into range a swarm of those will be as good as impossible to stop and you don’t need to sink a ship, as good as that looks for pr you just need to disable its ability to operate, it’s eyes and ears in particular. That said it would be great to have the option once that operation had taken place and reduced its capabilities to then hit it with something heavier. In any long conflict indeed when capabilities are gradually reduced and compromised both capabilities would… Read more »
Getting 8 spear 3 hits on a ship covered in so many large missiles would probably be very fatal very quickly.
Clever ambush indeed. Heavy storm provides cover and maximises effect. I can only imagine what it’s like to be on a ship hit by missiles on fire in heavy seas. I read somewhere the Ukrainians have some 70+ Neptune missiles. I have no idea if its true. But its got to get the Russians thinking. We’ll done Ukraine.
It seems all the crew survived – seems strange? With ammunition going off and fires creating dense smoke and heat. Just surmising but could it be sabotage?? The areas Russia is invading are mostly Russian speaking; he is murdering his own people.
With that last sentence you sound like Macron. Never a good sign.
Agreed. No chance – if the magazines detonated, far fewer than 500 sailors made it off that deathtrap
Unverified figures out of Sevastopol, where she is now alongside, are 20 injured and 5 dead.
No it has sunk.
Funny, every other media report says it’s at the bottom of the Black Sea where it belongs 😂
You sure about that…
I think the Russian media have said she’s sunk under tow. That’s what the bbc and others are quoting. Where did you get the info that she made it to Sevastopol?
If that’s true I’m sure satellite pictures will verify shortly. Then these unverified figures you should surely be questioning.
She’s not in Sevastopol matey. She’s at the bottom of the black sea.
No way casualties were that light. She was on fire from bridge back to hangar. Total loss. Likely with very large casualties.
If she is in sevastapool post a picture or link to prove that.
Pentagon says she has sunk
Bbc says she has sunk
Dont believe Putin’s media. They are all controlled by the Kremlin and talking utter tosh.
This propaganda didn’t age well Ivan…
Russians can’t lie without sounding like a comedian.
Not quite, look again. It was a fine-looking ship until Neptune arrived on the scene.
Just a coincidence that a Slava class destroyer explodes and bursts into flames. Judging by the amount of NATO Intel assets in the east of Romania at the time it looks as though the Ukrainians have pulled off a major coup.
Whatever the Russian Ministry of Defence says assume the opposite to be true!
Lets hope she’s either ruined beyond repair or has sunk. Will hopefully make them a bit more wary of littoral operations and enable Ukraine to redistribute some of their resources eastwards.
A co-incidence that Boris said a couple of days ago that the UK would be giving Ukraine ‘anti-ship missile systems’?
No it won’t be a coincidence. We gave them something that helped them to do this and turn what they already had into a ‘system’ would be my guess. Try this: It might be that as UK were collaborating with Ukraine on new navy vessels there was a system being built that allowed them to fire with some particular piece of sensitive tech. As it has become clear that the Ukrainians are not going to roll over it is worth risking the sensitive tech to kick the Russian navy into touch. Maybe, maybe not. It might just have been a… Read more »
I think this incident is a turning point. Putin will see that plan A for taking Odesa won’t succeed.
Biden has announced he is sending 155mm artillery from US inventories, with 40,000 rounds, locating radars and air surveillance radars. The last week the UK and the US between them have gifted Ukraine 400 APCs and protected mobility vehicles and a whole load more ATGM.
Plan A was taking Mykolaev, and then going to Odessa. That plan has failed miserably, as Ukrainian forces are pressing to reverse the Russian advance back over the Dnipro, encircling the 22nd army group around Cherson in the process. If that happens, the road is open to Armiansk, Feodosia, Kerch. Which would basically seal the fate of most Russian troops in Southern Ukraine, and may be the last nail into Putins coffin.
You know your navy is in a bad state of affairs when claiming your flagship was lost by a onboard fire, is more believable then it being sunk by enemy fire.
😂😂
More believable and apparently more desirable. ‘No we weren’t hit by a contemporary AshM….no…..our vessel just spontaneously combusted setting off a chain reaction..’. Well that would fill the Rus Navy boys with confidence.
Hence why I lean more towards Russia side of the story. No discredit to the Ukrainians but why would someone admit to such an embarrassing situation if not true.
Because they are hiding a worse case scenario behind half truths. The truth is Moskva was targetted by Ukraine. Hit by 2 sea skimming but not particularly advanced Anti ship missiles which triggered a massive series of secondary explosions from the cannister mounted S1000 vulture heavy anti ship missiles. Russia doesnt want to admit their inability to detect, track, target and destroy 2 such less than cutting edge weapons. Russia also doesnt want to admit that the Slava class (also probably their Udaloy and Sovremy class warships) are death traps by design. Having so many heavy weapons monuted externally and… Read more »
Because an act of god, is not strategically important, not being able to operate of the Ukriane cost for fear of lossing major surface vessels is. This is about internal optics not what the rest of the world thinks.
Did they even have defences switched on?
Do they even work?
Or were they jammed. Just like the wonderful S300 or S400 systems that never seem to work when Western or Israeli Jets are around….?
I’d bet on the latter as they won’t be very sophisticated and the Ukrainians probably have similar systems so understand how they work anyway.
That’s blasphemy, s400 can take out all of NATO Air Force on its own. America has been spending $200 billion a year on air forces for two decades with no idea how to knock out a single GBAD 😀 worlds most advanced radar somehow built by a country that can’t make a CASIO watch.
I generally agree with you the S400 is very advanced indeed but that said all missile systems have their weaknesses and to work at their most effective they also have to compromise their ability to be unseen and invulnerable it’s all about expertise in hitting the sweet spot. Out of interest it’s been said that Israel’s ability to operate in Syria relies to a fair degree to cooperation with the Russians who allow them to target Iranian targets unmolested. This is because of the very strong links between the two countries many Israelis are from Russia of course, they sell… Read more »
I think there was some heavy sarcasm in Martin’s comment about how great the S400 is. It is no doubt a very capable system but I have no doubt it would be quickly bulldozed by a coordinated NATO attack. As I’ve been saying for years, if there is ever a conventional fight between NATO and any adversary, the least desirable job is to be the soldier manning a SAM system like the S400.
For sure, clearly NATO airforces having known about it for 20 years have not sat around doing nothing. I also find many of the claims dubious. Advanced radars need massive computing power and I find it hard to believe that Russia had access to the programmers and engineering capable of delivering.
Casio watch wasn’t that, that put NASSA on the moon ot was it a Casio pocket calculator ?
The usual grandstanding of supposed Russian military superiority.
What experience do they have in defending against an ASM? Their people may be as incompetent as many in their army appear to be.
The RN, which was already well trained, learned the hard way in 1982.
I look forward to more of their fleet sinking to the bottom if they show their noses off Ukraine’s coast. Now F off back to Sevastopol.
Slava Ukraini.
> Now F off back to Sevastopol
If it’s all the same to you, I’d rather they go all the way back to St. Petersburg, and Ukraine gets Sevastopol.
Hmmm, Sevastopol was retained by Russia when Ukraine got independence, so even by some miracle Ukraine got Crimea back the port is even more unlikely.
Pretty sure russia violated the terms of the Sevastopol 2042 lease back in 2014. It is ukrainian territory. legally if not de facto.
I’ll raise you wiyh Vladivostock.
By all accounts she’s still afloat and fire is out. The Russians are planning to tow her to port? That sounds surprising as without a team fighting it, I would have thought the fire would actually be spreading……
Which port? Mariupol?
Sevastopol. If she’s still afloat.
If it’s being towed that means the engine rooms have been destroyed and / or flooded. No casualties? An ammunition explosion and fire are a sailors worse nightmare. All this in a heavy sea state. I’d put money on hundreds of casualties.
She went back to port under her own power, not towed.
Then she’s the first Russkie rust bucket to return to port without using the default SOP ie a tug!
High mate. Do you know if Milton Keynes is a Russian Oblast or does John come from somewhere else? Just asking. 🤔
Twitter ( Ukraine weapons tracker) now saying she’s sunk while under tow.
It was towed, all media outlets have the same story. The thing is broken, burnt and it was so bad at least some of the crew were in the water. If the Captain isn’t dead he soon will be once the Court Marshall starts. On the up side we know it wasn’t towed by 🚜s unlike the rest of the Russian forces.
Actually even the Russians have admitted it has SUNK! 😆😆😂😂👍🏼
No,No. Its not ‘officially ‘ sunk until JinMK says so 😂.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61101906?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral
Sure Pinocchio 😂
Even Russian media has reported her sunk. But going by their constant lying she could be afloat & operational! Or maybe it’s a cunning experiment at making major warships submersibles? A human tragedy though.
Prove it. Post a picture of her back in port. She is at the bottom of the black sea. Sunk. Total loss.
Out of interest can you provide sources where you get your info. I’m genuinely interested in getting a broad spectrum of info. This is what I found MOSCOW, April 14. /TASS/. The Moskva missile cruiser sank while being towed amid storm because of hull damage sustained during the detonation of ammunition, Russian Defense Ministry said Thursday. “During the towing of the Moskva cruiser to the designation port, the ship lost stability due to hull damage, sustained during the detonation of ammunition because of a fire. Amid the heavy storm, the ship sank,” the Ministry said. The Ministry underscored that the… Read more »
Her new port in this case being the bottom of the Black Sea.
Even Russian state media said she was under tow when she sank in rough seas.
For once I’m tempted to believe them.
Pmsl! Ivan embarrasses himself again.
MOSCOW, April 14. /TASS/. The Moskva missile cruiser sank while being towed amid storm because of hull damage sustained during the detonation of ammunition, Russian Defense Ministry said Thursday.
“During the towing of the Moskva cruiser to the designation port, the ship lost stability due to hull damage, sustained during the detonation of ammunition because of a fire. Amid the heavy storm, the ship sank,” the Ministry said.
The Ministry underscored that the crew was evacuated to nearby Black Sea Fleet ships, as was announced earlier.
There’s a claim going around that they (the Ukrainians) took advantage of the weather and Russian technological/training limitations to pull off the strike. According to some sources, they flew a Bayraktar drone around the ship to effectively ‘distract’ Moskva.. then they hit it with their Neptune missiles. That’s unverified of course, and it should be taken with a pinch of salt at this moment. What is true is that they have been flying their drones over the Black Sea, and the Russian MoD released a video of a frigate allegedly targeting one only a few days ago. What’s also true… Read more »
Look what the cat dragged in….! Hello mate!
Well hello there!
Fire that caused munitions to explode, yet no casualties? What utter tripe from the Russians!
Surely any fire that caused an explosion of munitions would have torn the ship apart. No way that happens with no casualties, surely.
It is not clear from the translations from Russian exactly what the ‘munitions’ were as it covers everything from small arms to the missiles. The ship was on the end of life list so no upgrades, like sprinklers done.
Shite skills and drills from looting, raping, Nazis! The Russkie navy must be gutted missing out on the spoils of war such as televisions, clothes, kids toys, oh, and raping young girls! Scum!
Christ nobody has used sprinklers on a warship since the 70’s.
If sprinklers were the ‘upgrade’ god help the crews.
The QE class carriers have sprinklers in the hangar. Went off accidentally once, see: https://www.forces.net/news/hms-queen-elizabeth-set-leave-portsmouth-resume-sea-trials
Harpoon has sprays/sprinklers on the launchers. Magazines have manually operated sprinklers or fully auto sprinkler/spray systems tied into smoke and heat detector systems. Main boxes have sprinklers… The use the same pipe as the halon or co2 system but you switch to water /foam to cool the compartment prior to reentry for fire fighting. Hangars have sprinklers on carriers and FF/DD. LPD vehicle decks have them. Most messdecks have dry riser sprinklers. Connect a hose and spray the compartment before making a reentry.
Especially when the whole superstructure is flanked by essentially exposed magazines, exactly where the ASM would have hit. Many sailors will have died
I know I’m going off the point a bit but this shows how capable the Ukranians are. Now, Imagine them with the Polish MIG’s and more artillery We must have all sorts of stuff in storage that could be released?
I’d be surprised, sadly. Maybe not “we” as in NATO but UK. We have large munitions stockpiles and complex weapons stockpiles in several places. All of which our own military use which would need replacing. We have thousands of vehicles, again many in use that are not held by front line units but rotated in and out of use in JAMES. Same again with helis and jets in storage. DSA website shows assets recently cut that are for sale. Not much would be of use to Ukraine I suspect. People mention old FH70 155mm and AS90s, we might have the… Read more »
Given that Ukraine is fighting Putin for us, it’s arguable that we should let the Ukrainians have just about anything we have in service. Obviously there’s items they wouldn’t be interested in, or would take too long to train up to use.
The proviso would be that the Treasury needs to cough up to replace any kit given away. Perhaps funds could come from the Foreign Aid budget given that we are aiding Ukraine.
I agree, the U.K. will be providing lots of behind the scenes support too.
Problem with some of our kit would be training and maintenance. The Ukrainians are still mostly Soviet era kit. Depends what’s already happening that we don’t know about on that score.
Thought i’d deleted comment sorry.
It would have to be kit that needs less than 2 months training on, the aim has to be to defeat Russia within 6 months if we’re hoping for regime change to happen in Russia. For major repairs, NATO should establish maintenance depots in NATO countries. The Ukrainians can then transport donated in need of repair/rebuild to nearest across border depot.
Good call. Plus we don’t know how much training has been going on behind closed doors. The longer this goes on the more deeply we’ll get involved.
We could start with the aid we give to India and Pakistan and reassign it to the Ukraine to help pay for some of the kit and aide that will have to be donated after the war is over to help rebuild the Ukraine.
I can’t agree more, Ukraine is the front line for western democracies. If they can use it we should provide it, after all it will be serving its purpose, which is protecting the UK and U.K. interests. We are not going to be using all the challenger 2s for conversation to challenger 3 so maybe we could donate those. As you say this war may still be going in six months. 50 challenger 2s would make a big impact. I would suggest long range fires, but we have fuck all of those ourselves. We should talk to Finland about proving… Read more »
Biden announced he is sending 155mm howitzers 18 off from US stocks and 40,000 rounds.
That’s good news, that’s the sort of thing Ukraine will need to remove Russia from its boarders.
It would make my day if the Moskva sinks to the bottom, I suspect our recent anti ship collaboration with the Ukrainians maybe improved the Neptune missiles in some way to give the ship a good smacking, and to give the Russians headaches of how to play it down now. It takes something like this to make ordinary Russians question what putin and his awful generals are doing, maybe another ‘Potemkin’ catalyst to act as the first step for change.
Well certainly good that on this occasion their lies couldn’t be maintained for long and the Ukrainians released news it had sunk before they had got round to putting the best gloss on their version of the sinking they could.
So which is going to be more embarrassing for the Russians; a sunk cruiser or photos of a damaged and burnt hull being towed into harbour?
Either way that’s one third of their cruisers rendered combat ineffective. They may be an old class from the 80’s, but the Russians have yet to begin building their planned replacements.
I’m sure they’ll claim its a new camouflage or paint job and all part of the plan.
I don’t think they are capable of building large complex surface warships. All they have managed to build in the post Soviet age is six 3000 ton frigates and 2 4,500 ton frigates. That’s less than a thousand tons per year since the end of the Soviet Union.
Yep that ship was built in Ukraine as were their carriers if I remember correctly, correct me if I’m wrong. Certainly remember that a lot of the problems renovating the Indian one was because they had no yard that had ever worked on it before and thus completely under estimated time and costs.
Yes the slava’s were built in Ukraine, in-fact there is still a half built one sitting in a Ukrainian ship yard.
If, as according to the Russian government it somehow spontaneously combusted and had to be abandoned then it shows how terrible the condition and standards of their navy must be.
If it was a missile attack that they didn’t detect or defend against then it goes to show that their naval defences are every bit as good as their armoured formation defences.
Either way they look as clueless as their Army.
I suspect all this humiliation for the Russians will take about 5 years to reach the Russian public. Russia is now the best North Korea in the world!
My friend in Russian seems up to date in all this, thanks to VPNs, which have seen huge growth there since the start of the war. But for those who just watch tv news, which is all state controlled, they’ll only learn the truth when the regime falls.
Has the Russian Govt blocked the internet to all citizens?
They blocked pretty much all Western social media – they classified Facebook as a terrorist organisation 😂 – blocking news sites like that well known mouthpiece of HMG, the BBC 🤣
Pretty much.
A Russian friend of mine, who despairs of this madness (her words), had her mother call her asking if she was able to feed her family with the food shortages in London.
No joke: Russian propaganda is saying London is starving.
I get the same thing living here.
“What’s it like with all the terrorist incidents and bombs on the streets” I have been asked…
I text back “oh its manageable”. Whilst sat in a 4/5 star hotel at an all you can eat and drink Brunch shedded by 1400 with another 2 hours to go and then the BOGOF happy hour starts that is actually 3 hours long… At some point drunk dancing and kareoke will be involved as well.
Yes I’m sure they will claim the ship didn’t sink the sea just rose unexpectedly.
Appears all levels of Russian military are donkeys which is not really that surprising. We have given them too much credit for 70 years but I can’t really point at a time when they were good at war. They lost more men taking just Berlin that the western Allie’s lost combined in WW2. Shooting down an ASM is difficult for anyone. For a country that’s barley past transistors it’s not surprising they don’t have the capability. Even with T45 I doubt we would be sailing up and down the coast in range of ASM batteries.
😂😂
Well if you are talking 400 miles or so it’s a bit tricky not to at times or keep a bit of Crimea in the way. As for Berlin you are right Stalin taking control again ordered tanks in without sufficient infantry support (sound familiar?) and they were taken out in their hundreds by simple Panzerfaust and as a result many units rebelled, (also sound familiar?).
I think a type 45 or type 23 would easily manage an attack by a dozen neptune class missiles. British SAM systems are without any doubt the best in the world. Supported by very very advanced and effecyive radar technology.
Seems Slava class warships radar is beam focussed to a 180 degree threat axis. Therefore drawing it off with a drone acting as decoy would then allow the Neptunes to attack from the opposite side. Really rubbish radar technology worse than even the County class RN destroyers sent to the Falklands in 1982.
I think they could however ship defence systems often go wrong. I’m sure we would not have such a unit sitting in range unless it was on task then it would be for a short duration. It’s like sending tanks in unsupported.
Speculation I’ve read is the Ukranians used a bayraktar TB2 drone to distract the Moskva’s air defences to a high level target, while the Neptune’s were sea skimming, with the drone taking footage of the ship after it was hit.
Have any of those pictures made it into the open yet, and if so where do we look?
Not yet, no. I’d keep an eye on the Reddit page CombatFootage when it does
Video on twitter of the Moskva on fire. Taken from a civillian cargo ship from 2-3 miles away. Moskva is a total loss. Sunk for sure with 100% certainty.
Apparently Ukraine now has a smaller bayraktar drone for surveillance. This would make more sense, the Russian Navy probably would want to waste a air defense missiles on a drone and thinking any intel they get would be useless. Reality is the the bayraktar was sending back precise location and intel for the strike whilst pre occupying the crew.
Reading up about the CIWS on the Moskva is that it’s not independent like phalanx, it’s linked into the ship board electronics.
Has no one learned anything from the sinking of HMS Antelope, 40 years ago and just how can the Russians make basically make the same mistake that the British in WW1 made with ammo handling,
I seriously don’t get how the Russians could make the same mistake with missiles
The Russians are having a mini-HMS Hood moment with Moskava right now
Antelope was bombed. Moskva was hit by 2 AShMs it seems. It was HMS Sheffield that was sunk after an Exocet AShM in 1982.
The HMS Sheffield springs to mind
Maybe he means Antelope because of the ammo explosion? Antelope was hit by a 1000lb unexploded bomb lodged in her hull right next to weapons silo. Whilst attempting to defuse it it exploded.
Not quite the same as having all your ammo parked outside the hull exposed on deck. Soviet era ship designs are utter death traps for their crews.
It is why I’m never that keen on deck canister launched AShM.
Whist the tubes are containment devices that would focus the blast overboard they are still more vulnerable and can be used to amplify a small inbound charge on a precision weapon.
Forgive me if someone has mentioned this above. I wonder if the Neptune missile hit one of the side arrayed Bazalt missiles?It seems an obvious design flaw to arrange massive strike missiles along the side of the ship. One little hit would send the whole lot up.
My thoughts also. You wouldn’t need a big warhead. Someone in a dingy with an anti-tank or Star Streak weapon could do a a lot of damage 🙂
Or with a small precision missile(s)?
Others pour scorn on the idea of taking out a big combatant like that but I’d bet that one air burst into the radars, one into the bridge and one into a deck canister would finish off most ships. Maybe a couple into the machinery spaces to flood them for icing on the cake.
Back to the small swarming approach.
Yep that’s why spear 3 is a lot more than many people seem to think, good range, very clever missile, duel warhead, swarm enabled missile. You a pair of F35s firing off 32 of these is going to overwhelm any ship, with its clever targeting you have a mission kill all the time. after all the USN managed to mobility and mission kill one of its own air defence cruisers with a pair of shrikes. we could easily slap 8-16 of these on any of our escorts. Add in CAMM and the small ship fight and anyone playing games with… Read more »
If an incoming AShM had hit one of the ship’s main P-1000 missiles that would have been that. The type of missile defined the shape of its host, there was no choice back when it was built.
Well there was a choice because no contemporary NATO warship is so configured. They are now saying it is being towed to port. In which case the engine rooms have been destroyed and / or flooded. The claim that nobody has been hurt is for the birds.
Actually it could be said the Zumwalt’s have a similar though more elegant implementation of this design. Instead of concentrating missile launch tubes in a farm, the launch tubes are placed around the edge of the hull.
Though they are flush with the deck rather than looking like oversized oil drums strapped onto the side like the Moskva 😂
Main difference being the zumwalts cells are able to take a hit and the Slava can’t. 😂
It’s built and designed so fuckwit half trained morons can operate it, simple really!
Be fair, some of the crew could be quite switched on, but being clever is never a replacement for good training and I’m not even sure the conscripts are half trained.
I think the Russians tried to plan for that eventuality by the positioning of the ships CIWS so that 4 guns could target any missile
Their Kashatan CIWS are not independent mounts with their own radar and trackers. They are all linked to the ships radar suite. Which clearly didnt detect the incoming threat.
Hey ho. Soviet ship design. Soviet levels of technology.
Yes the Slava class are big and look frightning with so many heavy wespons mounted on deck but the reality is they are death traps for their crews.
Hence why Phalanx is Independant so if the main radar is down there is an active last ditch system.
I’d love to see a video of the strike if it exists to see if the Russian CIWS did anything and if it did just fired lead all over the show.
I’ll say it again, Marte ER for Typhoon, please. Eurofighter Typhoon Weapons Package by MBDA at Dubai Airshow 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjE9aNlmKZc “Compared to the first firing, which took place at the end of 2018, several additional features and functionalities were tested. These included an integrated navigation system, proximity fly-over fuze, with weapon controller and actuation system in advanced configuration. The missile also featured the terminal guidance with a new seeker, engineered and developed by the MBDA Seeker Division. The floating target was hit with “almost zero” miss distance after a flight of about 100 km. The missile pushed its envelope to… Read more »
Is this weapon integrated on any of the Typhoon customer nations aircraft?
The missile itself works but I can’t find any reports of integration.
This report is dated Dec 2021.
https://www.italiandefencetechnologies.com/mbdas-marte-er-has-successful-final-test-firing/
Isn’t their a naval version of storm shadow used by the French, wouldn’t that be a batter option for the EF?
Hi expat,
I seem to recall something along those lines but I’m not sure?
This appears to be an excellent option for us as it has been tested with Typhoon.
December 15, 2021
MBDA completes final test-firing of Marte ER anti-ship missile
“For the testing, MBDA used a telemetric production standard missile equipped with complete functional capabilities and production hardware.
The missile is expected to become operational early next year.”
https://www.naval-technology.com/news/mbda-completes-final-testing-marte-er-missile/
Bit of digging and the anti ship version although based on Storm Shadow is larger with a longer range. So it wouldn’t be easy to integrate into the Typhoon. I think the Kuwaiti Typhoons have the Marte ER integrated.
I wonder what the cost per missile is between them? but clearly, both are useful options to have.
Missile de Croisière Naval wouldn’t even be easy to integrate on our ships, as it needs a Sylver 70 launcher on the FREMMs. A strike length Mk 41 could probably take it too, but we don’t have any ship in current Royal Navy service likely to get either until the Type 26 comes on stream. That should be getting FC/ASW.
FC/ASW will be integrated into Typhoons as well and it’ll be a generation further along.
Why bother? I’ll bet the latest version of Storm Shadow has an I/R seeker option.
Should go for the Kertch bridge. !!!
Absolutely, cut Crimea off the Russian mainland.
Do we still have x craft in museums we can give them, how I would love to see that bridge brought down.
It’s such an obvious target, it must be really well protected
So those missile/s have a range of up to 190 miles!!! Wow is there any point to having a Navy anymore? 😮
Expressed the same point myself, as an island nation surely land based anti ship missiles with getting on for 200 miles radius would be a relatively low cost capability
Poland and the USMC are investing in land based truck mounted NSM, we should definitely do the same, if all the North Sea coastline could have these (Germany, France, Netherlands, Scandinavia and UK) the Russians would have a very hard time doing anything, especially with Germany, UK, France and Norway having very capable MPA.
Yes but you have to find the ships and keep track of them before you can fire the missiles at them and most navy’s tend to operate more than 190 miles from their coast lines.
Also remember Moskva was a 40 year old ship, it was effectively as outdated as the General Belgrano was when faced with an RN SSN.
One thing this war is teaching is obsolete Cold War platforms are nothing more than coffins when faced with 21C missiles and Weapon systems.
A bit on her defensive weaponry Moskva has search radars and tracking radars, the search radars can detect hundreds of targets and keep track of them. The naval version of the S-300F can track 6 targets at once while guiding 12 missiles towards those targets. In addition it has two naval OSA missiles which are effective against sea skimming subsonic missiles and drones, as well as 6 x 30mm gatling guns and 130mm guns as well, each with radar guidance and the ability to independently shoot down subsonic targets at a range of distances. The S-300 and OSA are of similar… Read more »
Quite an impressive submarine.
😆👍🏼
😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Classic. 😆
Didn’t do it much good though.
Helps if you switch that lot on 🙂
It’s got to be serviceable to be switched on…. 🤒
The bloke in charge of switching it on has to be sober.
Well obviously the sales brochure doesn’t live up to reality if they couldn’t spot and destroy a couple of cruise missiles that are based on quite old-technology… 🤷🏻♂️
Radar Clutter from the storm is my guess.
Radar clutter from Moskva being in amongst a load of civillian cargo ships at time targetted and hit.
Don’t believe every video you see on the internet. That particular one was made for someone’s internet ego.
Yes they chose their moment well 👍
None of the above actually work though.
Tell that to the RuAF who have lost aircraft to both S-300 and OSA.
Desperate response, very weak, just 2 out of 10 for that trolly boy! Do make more of an effort otherwise your controller may not let you have any looted items!
He’s going to be upset that they wont let him go to Ukraine to rape, pillage, murder innocent civillians like the modern day Hun the Russian army is.
Yeah, that’s the thing with Ukrainians, they’re very good at hitting military targets. Unlike the Russians.
Which probably accounts for why the Ukrainians waited for the right conditions to attack it. People forget that they were at the forefront of Soviet technology development in engines, rockets and missiles and general engineering even if much of that capability was in the east of the Country. Took Russia quite some time to adapt to the loss of those capabilities let alone replace them.
I don’t think the Russians ever recovered from that being cut off in 2014.
Russia military was effectively strangled from that point as it couldn’t access many of the high end jet engine and turbine components.
The Russians had switched to western avionics which dried up so existing planes couldn’t be finished and it strangled exports so there was no R&D cash.
They are now also cut of from Taiwan semiconductor which could further issues
Yet the stupid crew still set her on fire, well done!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Get a grip JIMK, it’s not defensive weaponry if it didn’t defend. That long list of yours is an index of Russian dreams meeting reality.
Radars can’t do much if they’re jammed, spoofed, broken down or put out of action.
I think the words you were actually looking for “is the Moskva” “had” (past tense) “a large number of defensive systems that proved to be ineffective against a small number of low end anti ship missiles“.
You pillock.😂
For all your blabost, something didn’t work, it sunk. End Ex.
Hopefully, many of the parents of her 500+ man crew will be getting the godd news.
As I posted earlier, killing a tank is one thing, killing a ship is in a different league and while Russian paratroops might come from one town, the ship will have crew from all over the country. Go Ukraine!
Now I see why we put all our anti shipping in one basket, a single torpedo would’ve snapped her in half. However this has shown just how vulnerable Soviet warships are to modern (ish) missiles, so a lot is being learnt by navy intelligence
What I find idiotic is that we as uninformed commentators suspect the Ukrainians have Neptune so the Russians would think that as well, so why would they leave their largest most powerful warship within range, it’s radar coverage extends well beyond Neptunes alleged range so I can’t see any reason for it to be there aside from ad for the frigates but it would seem it can’t even protect itself. Truly a shambles of a military.
How many times has this ship sailed without ‘catching fire and exploding’ ?
Strange coincidence such an event happens in a war zone don’t you think ?
Wut
“Sorry what” or simply “what” show some class man. 😂🤣😂
Reports say she was towed back to port, so she was at sea? How far out and what was she doing?
If it wasn’t a Ukrainian missle strike then The term “Ammunition is Safe, until you forget that’s its Dangerous” must of fell on deaf ears or some conscript couldn’t be arsed , whatever the cause She’s out for the count Mr Putin
If the ship was indeed hit by an ASM then it probably got the targeting info from either a US Global Hawk or some other US/NATO system capable of tracking the Russian ships.
its been reported that it was a TB2, which funny enough Moscow reported as shooting down yesterday:
The timeline seems to have been the US spotting a ship on fire, followed by the Ukrainians claiming ‘it was us Gov’. Later, 6 hours ago, John Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman said on CNN that the warship Moskva is still afloat but clearly damaged. He said it remains unclear whether the damage was caused by Ukraine missile attack. Russia claims that a fire onboard caused ammunition to explode.
JIMK wrote:
John,
Moscow published a story first that that they had shot down a TB2 drone, then Ukrainians stated they had hit a ship yesterday with anti-ship missiles. then late last night the Russians stated that the ship Moskva had suffered a fire and that the ship had been abandoned, seeing as the Ukraine is 2 hours ahead of the Uk, that would mean the below message was posted at 8pm UK time
Why is she at anchor with her colours flying ?
JIMK wrote: Russia claims that a fire onboard caused ammunition to explode. I think you will find the clue to what actually transpired in the wording used by the Russian media regards that fire: “”MOSCOW, April 14. /TASS/. A fire and subsequent broadside munitions blast have done serious damage to the Moskva missile cruiser of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, the crew was evacuated, the Russian defense ministry said on Thursday. “A fire onboard the Mosvka missile cruiser caused a blast of the broadside munitions. The ship received serious damage. The crew was evacuated,” the ministry said, adding that a… Read more »
Timeline was “shit crew board ship, shit crew not sure how to do job, shit crew set her on fire, the whole world laughs at shit crew and shit military” There, that’s about it, saves you the time of trying to justify absolute incompetence!
Don’t forget shit orders.
Or the other one, our flag ship just randomly exploded in the middle of a war zone just off the enemy coastline. At present it is thought this was cause by a randomly spontaneously combusting seaman, under no circumstances could we see evidence of enemy action and we are aware they were all out to lunch at that time, waiting to be happily liberated by the motherland from the shackles of their freedom. We will be interviewing the combusting seaman to understand the cause of the event and provide his remains with free political re-education. To ensure no further vessels… Read more »
Well said 😂😂😂👍🏼
Surely they will claim its aliens next. Would be more convincing actually.
So it was you who redesigned Russian naval training and tasking?
Yes fundamental rule one of navel tasking for 40-50 year old relics crewed by 18 year old never seen the sea before slaves is to never ever ever under an circumstances leave port and only fire up the generators In urgent need.
Spontaneously combustion seamen…….FFS hilarious….
That’s a joke right?
Well it is a joke but he may not recognise it as such.
I just see all these uniformed Russian trolls in a back room somewhere. “How do we explain away this one comrade?” “We haven’t used Aliens before, let’s say Aliens did it”
Bloody Photon torpedoes Jim
‘It’s bullshit Jim, but not as we know it‘.
Lol 😂 totally
I mean, I know you are trying not to be sent to the front, but the timeline you have just put forward is total nonsense, the timeline seems to be drone, Ukrainian claim of hitting Russian ship, Russian counter claim it was an accident.
The fire caused by the Ukrainian missiles that the Russians apparently didn’t spot even after they hit the Moskva 😂
😁
What caused the fire though?
Too many cooks?
The missile must of been an Exochef then Barry
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You really are a tool!…do you think we on here are that stupid!?…she’s on the bottom mate, but that doesn’t fit with your agenda does it.
Here’s a newly released model kit for you to build in your one bed Moscow apartment…not sure how many pieces…but most are underwater now 👍
🤣😅😆😅🤣😅😆 excellent. That made me laugh.
😂 brilliant, I love that!
That would be very interesting had it not been from someone who claimed it had made it back to Sevastopol under her own power just before the truth of her sinking came out.
Very probably
It will in the film, where Zelinsky will be female and Putin played by a British actor, all the know-how will be American and New Zealand will refuse to help. Really, I don’t think the Ukrainians need lessons but we and N.A.T.O. could take a few from them.
Missile hit or crew incompetence, who cares, good result, more please!
If it was a couple of Ukrainian missiles it’s very important as the Russian navy can be held at risk on the Ukrainian coast which is bigger than the loss of one major combatant ( even the flag ship). But if it was just an accident it will not prevent the rest of the Russian navy from activity in the littoral so less impactful, if handy.
Being a flag ship, I wonder how much senior braid were on board at the time? An admiral perhaps.
JohninMK told me personally it sailed into port and tied up, its decks lined with jolly Javk Tarss all waving and cheering to packed dockside crowds! Have you ever known JohninMK to be wrong!? I think we should get to the bottom of this – at least as far down as Moskva is.
😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂Has he been on tonight with his tripe?…
Oh, has he not Avvers! Wrote a comment in reply to my request for enlightenment and said the Moskva had entered Sevastopol under her own steam (!) and tied up after the crew (!) had put out the fire! I await JohninMK’s lengthy explanation for this seeming impossible maritime first.
Yup, I admit it, I got it wrong.
So did Putin!
Absolutely 👍
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Have yet to see a confirmation, but this Russian outlet says, the vessel sank while under tow.
https://ria.ru/20220414/kreyser-1783626130.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-61101906?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral
Breaking…..
Russia admits their cruiser has SUNK. Of course all of the crew are fine (NOT!).
Russia have said the ship sunk .. More Russian rust on the sea bed.
It’s simple, really. Moskva set fire to herself, as she was feeling rather cold and lonely. She then blew herself up, quite… quite randomly. Studies suggest that Russian Cruisers like to do this, as they feel left out when the T72 tanks get all the glory . After receiving word of a horde of Ukrainian farmers charging towards her through the Black Sea, she took her own life. She loves tug boats but fears tractors. Guys, this was just a special operation. Just like the T72s with their Olympic sport and the skeletonised Russian helicopter crew who ate themselves rather… Read more »
She was getting to the end of her life and due to terminal rust decided to make a trip to an assisted dying centre.
Lusty I like your Moscow piss take. This is what really happened. The Moskva was off the coast of Odesa providing command and control as well as air defence for the Russian blockade. However, due to the high sea state and the lack of maintenance their radars weren’t working properly or the crew weren’t sufficiently trained to operate them. The Ukrainians snuck in 2 low flying ant-ship missiles both of which hit the Moskva and ignited the P1000 missiles along the side of the vessel. The ship exploded and the entire crew went down with the ship.
Thanks!
Just to be clear to the internet: I do know what really happened! 😂
It’s rather remarkable. A landing ship and a cruiser lost almost forty years to the day after ships of the same type were also lost during conflict. I heard a claim that 54 had been rescued, but we just don’t know at the moment.
Honestly though, the skeletonised crew freaked me out a little when I saw it. Daniele can probably appreciate it, what with my attachment to choppers.
Lusty, I actually thought your version was more convincing than the Russian propaganda we get 😀
Haha!
Nah those weren’t missiles along the side of the vessel. They were large oil drums holding extra fuel, the same as they do with their tanks 😂
Bollocks, much like Armoured like to use chaff dispensers for their Herforder pilsner, those are massive vats of vodka.
DB wrote:
Ah, yellow handbags
So it’s official the Moskva floundered under tow. That really say something about Soviet ship design. It’s a 12,500 ton warship that sank after being hit by two 150kg warheads, that’s very worrying if your the Russian navy. After all these warheads are smaller than Exocet ( 165kg ) and a OH Perry 4000ton frigate has survived and made its way to port after being hit by two.
It maybe a record for smallest warhead size sinking a 10,000+ warship.
A serious loss for Russia. Moskva wasn’t just the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet. She was one of only 4 cruisers the Russians have got (with one more in refit).
They don’t seem to be capable of building ships of that size anymore. Since the fall of the USSR they haven’t commissioned anything new larger than some 4,500 ton frigates.
Hopefully her loss will create a gap in Russian radar, information and air defense coverage in that area which can be exploited by Ukraine.
and only a couple of those, the other 6 are 3000 ton hulls. Their complex war ship building seems to be more PowerPoint than power projection.
Given the fire power now available that can be fitted into ships that size, does anyone need bigger ships. Especially if, like many navies they have limited objectives.
Which, in the Russian navy’s case is simply remaining afloat.
Where as the Royal Navy’s 3 are Fight,Float,Move
Tommo, when I was working in design, and the now defunct BR3021 Shock Design Manual was my bible, the tiered design criteria used for RN platforms were, in order of importance:
Operators often raised more than an eyebrow when they learnt that the ability of the platform to fight as a warship was not top of the list.
I think nowadays the “Move” criteria has been replaced with a silghtly wider ranging “Live”.
Cheers Audax , seems using the term “Live” is keeping the Navy pulse on trendy terminology “Fight” will probably be replaced by a term less aggressive
Engage in proactive kinetic operations to minimalise A potential enemies impact in a defined area of operations over a defined period, supporting the UK s optimal outcome criteria.
🤣🤣🤣
Certainly the Russkie surface fleet has limited objectives, such as getting at least one man able to sail a fucking warship.
That level of education and skill would create a danger to the state…who would need to be immediately transferred to support operations in Siberia.
Big ships = big VLS silos. Better sensors (except obviously on Russian warships) more damage tolerance through internal compartmentalisation, except on Russian warships and crucially the ability to carry weapons internal reducing the risk of secondary explosions. Except on Russian warships where weapons proliferate on the open decks.
It depends very much if you want the surface combatant to live. If your just loading for offence yes you can fit a fair bit in. Especially if it’s a brown water combatant with sod all range. but actually a three thousand ton hull is very small. Not only that but the 6 Project 11356 frigates actual started life as project 1135.1 designed i. 1980 dusted off like most russia programmes from soviet designs. Their air defence missile Was first deployed 40 years ago ( the design is a 1960s design) that was updates 20 years ago for inclusion on… Read more »
Not Powercut
Were not most of the big ship yards in Ukraine?
Well the Russians do like their records. I wonder how this will be presented to the gullible public… probably bravely sunk while being dastardly attacked by a deceitful surrendering NATO fleet is about the only thing that might keep spirits up a tad. Just imagine Putin in his bunker, that often spoofed film of Hitler ranting and raving in his in 1945 comes to mind. At this rate Russia will be begging to join NATO to protect it from Finland, esp after the Tsar has sacked all his Admirals.
Georgia just many turn around and decide it’s time think about getting some of its bits back that Russia stole way back when in 2008.
The Russian public are not stupid and are well trained at decerning the truth behind official announcements. There appears to be a lot of anger, not necessarily at Ukraine but at those in their Navy who allowed it to happen.
Given her location near Snake island in the west of the Black Sea there is a view that she hit a mine and the Ukrainians have exploited the PR opportunity to the full. The BSF commander may also be under arrest.
Oh so now it’s a mine ?? It was tied up in port having arrived there under its own power, all fires extinguished according to you earlier. If the Russian public are anything like you then they certainly are stupid. Stupid, gullible, craven apologists who blindly swallow nazi propaganda.
Every time you post, you remind me of that ‘Comical Ali ‘ fellow in Baghdad during Gulf War 2003. I can just see you now, ill fitting fatigues, beret, fake medals, sweating like a rapist as you await your instructions from Dmitry Peskov.
Comical Johnski !!
Like it. I need to change my name.
You already have a few avatars son no need for any more, although bellendskie sounds apt. Or Putin groupie could work.
Or just child murdering rapist
Agreed!!!
How do you know the Russian people are not stupid as you say you have never been there but do a lot of research? Oh dear another cluster comment johnskie. So its a mine now, whats next? Hit a whale? To fast over a speed hump? FFS clutching at straws son.
Hey johnskie, any updated comments on your new submarine? You seem to have gone very quiet now you have lost your flagship, in what is mainly a land war, against a country with no navy! FFS fucking amateurs at every level. Come on son, we are all looking forward to your next words of wisdom.
They couldn’t hide this loss
Wonder if it took the towing ship down with it, 🚢
And people wonder why the RN has invested in Sea Venom and Martlet. Anyone could forgive the RN for knowing what it’s talking about after decades of real world experience on operations.
Yep you don’t need the biggest bang, you just need to find it and hit it with the right sized bang.
👍
While not getting hit yourself. Small missiles tend to have short range, which can put the firing platform at risk. Even if you are using a drone, the bigger the missile, the bigger the drone, the bigger the target. The smaller the drone, the shorter range, the more likely they will locate the originating ship & that ship will be within range of a heavyweight AShM. Helicopter launch Sea Venom puts the helicopter within range of the likes of CAMM. In the littoral space they can work well, not so sure about the open ocean against frigates & up.
Wouldn’t be the first time if you did. Pmsl 😂
Sorry DJ that reply ment for JohninMK 👍
Yes but you do have to look at engagements that actually happen. Ships don’t actually thrown missiles at each other from hundreds of miles away. But remember spear three has the ability to be quad packed and has a range of 100km+ which is quite frankly plenty. with the range of AAW mission systems its all about the radar horizon not the range of the AAW missile. So with your rotor say at 20 meters (60 foot altitude and a radar height of 20 meter, the radar horizon is only 9.9 nm, with a possible maximum detection a little further… Read more »
True, but it’s worth remembering Martlet has a 3kg warhead, not 150kg. There’s small and there’s small.
But Sea Spear has a 16kg warhead….2 1/2 times the size of its Brimstone parent.
And CAMM goes at Mach 3 which makes for the same energy into a hull as a 6inch AP shell, but with a missile body that’s soft will break up and deliver all its energy into the hull and not leave out the back door with most of its energy not delivered.
It really does not take a great deal of warhead to mission kill a ship especially if the can be targeted with multiple warhead functions, blast frag for the radars, Heat for the machine spaces and propulsion. Spear three is going. To be a killer.
Yeah the sinking of HMS Hood and HMS Sheffield is the best historical comparisons i can think of to sum up, how bad news for everyone, the Moskava’s sinking is because Putin will react and we have no idea how he will
Russias Belgrano.
👍👍👍👍exactly!
With that comparison, the response to hoods sinking was to dispatch a lot of assets to get the attackers and sink them. I think it also served as a bit of a rallying call for more action.
Obviously I wasn’t around then so don’t know exactly about the last part😂
I hope Russia doesn’t go full crazy over this. Oh I forgot it sunk by accident. 😂😂
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Russian military doesn’t try to avenge Moskava like the British did for Hood back in WW2
Yes my thoughts perhaps.
They’ve missiled struck a factory in Kiev that apparently makes Antiship Missiles such as those that didn’t repeat Didn’t hit the Moskva oh Fecking really
Well Putin being Macho man This years arse end Water sking trip around the Black Sea is off Oh hang on artificial reef Diving could still be penned in too his busy schedule
On the positive side, this loss will prove great news for marine archaeologists in 2,500 years.
No chance of a steel ship being anything other than a red/brown stain on the seabed after a few hundred years.
Let’s hope it didn’t have any nuclear warheads/depth charges on board…….
Nice thought.
The Turks are unhappy with the S400 now they have had a good play with it
Can you cite a source for this please.
News in Turkey I live in Turkey Marmaris .
Aah on a lighter note that’s a lovely bay lovely place to live apart from the Earth quake when I was there anyway.
The Turks can probably turn a profit on it by opening up an auction for it:-
• Russia bidding to replace its losses
• Ukraine bidding to add to its defences
• USA bidding to tear it apart to see if it’s any good!
He’s just said its no good…
Let’s hope US Intelligence goes into things a little deeper than that.
I wonder if the US would let turkey back in the F35 program if they handed over the S400. I would imaging they are not happy they have started down purchasing russia equipment and may want to get back on side with the rest of NATO.
The US is not going to let Turkey back into the F-35 program. Even if Slow Joe’s handlers would agree to it, the Congress wouldn’t allow it. Instead the US is going to sell Turkey 40 F-16s and upgrade 80 of its existing F-16 fleet. Congressional approval of that deal is by no means a certainty. Turkey has been totally duplicitous in its handling of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine especially in helping Russia avoid economic sanctions and prohibiting US warships from entering the Black Sea. Prohibiting Russian ships from the same is really a pro-Russian move since Russia’s fleet is… Read more »
Turkey is a Danger, and only looking to reverse engineer anything it buys, why they took a huge step in technology quickly for little research and development cost. USA doesn’t trust Turkey any further than they can, there E7s are a dumber version as they don’t have they “Link” update. and Turkey saw the acquiring the F35s as easy way to side step this. and there Love of Playing both sides.
Manoeuvring to get back into the F-35 work.
I’m not surprised.
I’d guess it turned out to be pretty basic and not that resistant to jamming……
Can’t think why that would be…….
Media reports suggest that Russia has a replacement sister ship in the Med. Are the Turks/NATO going to let it through Turkish waters to get to the Black sea ?
I would assume not …unless its like a nigtclub …one in one out
U funny.
The only other 2 Slava class ships were brought to the med before the conflict started. 1 from northern fleet and one from pacific fleet. Most likely to try and put off nato.
More targets for Ukraine if they enter the Black Sea. The ship would have to change home port to get into the Black Sea. I dont know the exact specifics of the treaty. Can’t remember it’s name that governs the straits.
The Montreux Convention.
The Turks declared that no military ship, other than their own, regardless of their home port or nationality would be allowed through the Bosporus during the war in Ukraine. A very pragmatic decision. My suspicion is the the Pacific Fleet Varyag was actually on a PR round the European/Asian landmass trip, probably being the first ship to do so. Able to do this by returning home using the North East Passage. A trip now delayed. The Marshal Ustinov may have been doing the same in reverse. Both started their journey well before the war and there wouldn’t have been much… Read more »
Turkey can in this case prevent passage even if they change to a Black Sea home port. If they feel they are at risk themselves they can block passage of any warship. The only body that could legally challenge that under the terms of the convention was the League of Nations, since they no longer exist there is not legal place to challenge turkey deciding your worships a a threat to Turkish security and closing access.
Glory to Ukraine!
There are no Flowers on a Sailors Grave sorry for being Sombre
A point well worth remembering.
I’d be amazed if there was no loss of life due to the appalling state of the ship.
Their families will be treated the same as the Kursks families if you speak out your end up being sedated with an injection
BBC just posted a Russian ministry of defence video of the Moskva survivors on parade. Oh dear I counted 35 souls. If thats all that survived they have probably suffered similar or higher fatalities to the Belgrano sinking. Remember the Belgrano was an ex USN WW2 cruiser not a modernish warship.
Must have been huge secondary explosions destroying the upper decks from the S1000 Vulcan/ vulture heavy anti ship missiles. Once the upper decks were gutted and on fire there would have been no way out for her crew.
They looked like they had just got off the Holyhead to Dublin ferry, rather than 48 hours ago being rescued from a ship that either: A: Had an ammunition explosion that caused a fire so bad the whole crew had to abandon ship and be rescued, in a storm so bad it caused a large warship to sink while under tow. Russian version. Or B: was hit by two sea skimming missiles which caused the on board munitions to explode and the ship to sink and them to be rescued in stormy weather from sinking/sunken ship. Ukrainian version. Or C:… Read more »
Yes but at least 70% of the crew of the Belgrano got off it. Most of the casualties came from the second torpedo, punching through the aft hull and exploding, so most souls lost were from that one blast.
Unconfirmed reports suggesting only 40 to 50 were flown back to Sevastopol and that onboard missiles indeed went off, there’s a very pixelated Sat pic showing a very glowing object with other barely visible vessels close by and also reports that a Turkish ship picked up some survivors but obviously still nothing clear, Ukrainians seem confident Captain is dead even reports the Black Sea Fleet Admiral has been arrested all very confusing. Wonder if we will ever know the full truth but I suspect Putin’s anger and the reactions since show not only was it hit by missiles (as if… Read more »
Latest photo of the Moskva released…
ROFL 😂