Russian missile cruiser ‘Moskva’ has suffered serious damage and the crew has been evacuated after explosions on the vessel, ammunition has detonated, reportedly due to a Ukrainian attack on the warship.

On the 13th of  April 2022, Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych and Odesa governor Maksym Marchenko said that Moskva had been hit by two Neptune anti-ship missiles and was on fire in rough seas. Arestovych said there were 510 crew members aboard.

The Russian Defense Ministry however said that a fire had caused munitions to explode, the ship had been seriously damaged and the crew fully evacuated, without any reference to a Ukrainian strike.

OSINT analysts reported that distress signals had been transmitted from the Moskva, and that multiple assistance vessels had appeared near the last known location of the ship.

The ‘Snake Island Warship’

In February 2022, the cruiser left Sevastopol for the Black Sea as part of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.

The ship was later used against the Ukrainian armed forces during the attack on Snake Island together with the Russian patrol boat Vasily Bykov. Moskva hailed the island’s garrison over the radio and demanded its surrender, and was told Russian warship, go fuck yourself. After this, all contact was lost with Snake Island, and the thirteen-member Ukrainian garrison was captured. The exchange has been translated as:

Russian warship: “Snake Island, I, Russian warship, repeat the offer: put down your arms and surrender, or you will be bombed. Have you understood me? Do you copy?”

Ukrainian 1: “That’s it, then. Or, do we need to fuck them back off?”

Ukrainian 2: “Might as well.”

Ukrainian 1: “Russian warship, go fuck yourself.”

George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also works for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Ian M
Ian M
1 month ago

Ukrainian 1: “Russian warship, go fuck yourself.”

Seems to have worked!

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian M

Now it’s the warship that is f****d

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

😂

Paul42
Paul42
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian M

It has, Russian State Media has just confirmed she has sunk under tow in stormy weather. The US earlier stated she was still on fire.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul42

Were there any casualties?

Tim Godderis
Tim Godderis
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian M

No no, it is a special underwater operation as a token of goodwill. And don’t forget, every ship can be a submersible , at least once.

hmslion
hmslion
1 month ago

there are multiple (unconfirmed) reports going around on social media that the Moskva has since capsized and sunk. Is there any confirmation of this?

spyintheskyuk
spyintheskyuk
1 month ago
Reply to  hmslion

We can only hope. Well if nothing else often expressed claims (most recently on a thread here) about the amazing anti missile capabilities of Russian ships has been put into context. Just looked up this (claimed) missile i.e. Neptun and has an interesting story though its roots go back to the late 70s the Ukranian modified missile is only just now coming into service with their forces (hurriedly no doubt). Great first use if so though I don’t know if their previous claim of hitting a destroyer might actually have been this missile rather than others reported. More concerningly perhaps… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  spyintheskyuk

If this war has done nothing else it’s exposed Russian ‘high tech’ as a contradiction in terms.

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Yes on paper there kit is fab but in reality we are leaning the truth. Neptune is not that advanced, not that fast and not that stealthy… and two may have it their target.

who says Harpoon is passed its sell by date!

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob N

Read a quote from a retired US general. He said before Ukraine we saw the Russians as a 7 foot tall monster now we see they’re about 5 foot 2 !

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Will thar make them more reasonable or more paranoid? My money is on the latter…

OldSchool
OldSchool
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

5′ 2″ might be a bit tall for a pygmy 😉

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob N

Rob Not once have I seen a yellow use by sticker on any munitions used by the Navy or is it now used too be more user friendly

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago
Reply to  spyintheskyuk

We know the old Soviet era ships are really deteriorating now and that as viable blue water navy, it is the submarine fleet that preserves the status

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

Kursk

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  spyintheskyuk

It looks like Ukraine has a better anti-ship capability then the RN! How ironic… it shows just how badly the UK Governments have let UK defence down…. I can only hope we are learning a few lessons and we will grow our defence budget.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
1 month ago
Reply to  hmslion

JohninMK will know.

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

Maybe he was aboard, would explain his silence 😏

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean

Difficult to get a signal when the dingy was bouncing around.

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Are you under tow? That is one thing that the Russian navy has superior experience with!

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

You called? This is what the MoD in Moscow are saying

The source of fire on the cruiser “Moskva” is localized. There is no open fire. Explosions of ammunition have been stopped.
Cruiser “Moskva” keeps buoyancy. The main missile armament was not damaged.
The crew was evacuated to the ships of the Black Sea Fleet in the area.
Measures are being taken to tow the cruiser to the port.
The cause of the fire is under investigation.

UPDATE
She has just entered Sevastopol under her own power. No photo yet.

Last edited 1 month ago by JohninMK
Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

MoD in Moscow…… Those well known purveyors of truth.

Said no one ever.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Either way more shite skills and drills from your Russkie Nazis JohninMK! You’ve got to thank your mate Putin for showing the west just how fucking bad at soldiering (and now sailoring) your half trained wasters are! Coupled with rapists and tortures, add on looting, and it’s a fucking shit show! And yet you still support this illegal invasion.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Hear hear Airborne old bean. Totally agree. No fear of Russia anymore. My grandad could go over there with a few NLAWs tucked down his trousers and defeat the whole Russian army.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Methinks we have been bluffed and a bit too afraid of the Russkies during, and since the Cold War! Their kit is actually mostly shite, as is there people and doctrine!

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

So, … Your side not too downhearted?

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Just being reported by State media as sunk…. In Sevastopol perhaps, wouldn’t be a first for a major Russian ship sinking in harbour.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

BBC news said she has sunk under tow.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

UPDATE Oh dear, going going…..gone!

Wolf
Wolf
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

UPDATE
Russia’s Defence Ministry has confirmed that the Russian cruiser, Moskva, has sunk.

Special Underwater Military Operation is a go.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Wolf

With Glass bottom boat keep it up Ukraine could have a fleet review with Said Glass bottom boats get a good view

Luke Jones
Luke Jones
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Nah mate. It’s at the bottom of the sea.

dave12
dave12
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

LMAO!!! Russian MOD just confirmed it has sunk under tow , another embarrassing event for the Russians , this war just keeps on showing up you Russians johnski lol.

Rob Emms
Rob Emms
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

He most certainly will, unless he has now been conscripted 😉

Ross
Ross
1 month ago
Reply to  hmslion

just an update on this, Russia is stating that the fire has been localised and the ship will be towed to port. So likely the vessel is at the never least afloat for now.

Rob Emms
Rob Emms
1 month ago
Reply to  Ross

And for the first time we are supposed to actually believe a word the Russians say????

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Ross

Dont believe it. The grainy video of Moskva on fire that is widely available on twitter. Filmed from a nearby cargo ship shows Moskva was in the middle of a large grouping of cargo ships. So well done Ukraine for targetting her whilst surrounded by maritime clutter. Really syrprised the Neptune missiles got passed the Russians famed CIWS and air defence missiles. Must have been a failure in detection and tracking surel? The video ive seen on twitter showed Moskva from 3 miles away totally ablaze from bridge superstructure back to the helicopter hangar. Id put money on Russian half… Read more »

Lusty
Lusty
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

The first video you refer to is fake. It’s a video showing a cargo ship fire in 2019, ironically, off Crimea somewhere. Someone just flipped it and added a rather crap night vision effect.

Last edited 1 month ago by Lusty
Tommo
Tommo
28 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Thanks Mr Bell ,casualties? Moscow has now posted a film apparently showing the Crew of the Moskva on parade in Her home port of Sebastapol (no date shown for parade) another piece of Soviet era Propaganda I wonder when families start asking questions as too why their little Ivor wasn’t on parade with the rest of the Supposed Moskva crew? If they do ask questions then they will probably get the same response as the Kursk families an injection too the Bum and silence

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 month ago
Reply to  hmslion

Either way, it’s out of it. Nice one, whatever.

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago
Reply to  hmslion

Sheffield lasted over 24 hours before she rolled over and went down I don’t know what kind of watertight integrity system that they use, but íf like royal navy she would have been at least half closed down inside the ship and that reports of it already sinking may be off.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

COV went in 20mins Andy

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

She was hit by a stick of 4×1000 lb bombs so much more damage to COV than the undetonated exocet that hit Sheffield. Its all about effects on target, where the ship was hit, extent of blast and subsequent fire and then the ability of the crew to undertake effective firefighting and battle damage control and repair.
Coventry being a 4200 ton type 42 batch 1 destroyer was never going to survive 4x1000lb bomb hits.

Audax
Audax
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I think it was 3 x 500 lb (out of 4 dropped) from the second wave of A4’s that did for Coventry and a lad I went to school with. It was the fire from the still running rocket motor on the dud Exocet that wrecked the Shef. She was scuttled after the tow through heavy South Atlantic seas became too much to handle. 41 years in the Barrow shipyard, but the Shef was just a bit before my time – still remember walking past the first of the streched 42’s (Manchester) the day the Shef was hit like it… Read more »

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Audax

Both the Shef and Cov lads made up the first crew of the Manc those that hadn’t put in their 18mnt notice my bessy Oppo said they got away with so much as quite a few were devolping self coping mechanisms (Drinking) he said BOST and COST was just one constant argument with FOST staff

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

I served with a fair few from both ships and some of the 21 club. Some drank, some had twitches. And yes FOST got told to do one on numerous occasions.
That said the FOSTies learnt and applied the lessons when all the lessons learnt came out.
RN FF/DC was the better for it as well. Incidents on Southampton, Brazen, Broadsword, Nottingham all proved that knowing your DC and FF pays off.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Cheers Gunbuster , I remember how FOST implemented the 21 scenario too see if a ships FF and DC teams could defy the odds and save the ship working on my 20ts and 30ts stayed right out of the mayhem that ensured

Paul T
Paul T
1 month ago
Reply to  Audax

Correct – the Argentinian Navy used different Bombs on their A4’s (Snakeye 500lb Retarded) which didn’t suffer the fusing problems the Air Forces standard Iron Bombs did.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I know Mr Bell my oppos were on her The Sheff could have survived if the FF Ringmain hadn’t been shattered Batch 2s had an extra Firepump installed Lessons learnt from Corporate

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

Applied to T23 with zoned firepumps, vent, air compressors etc.

johan
johan
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

The Exocet that hit Sheffield the warhead didnt detonate, and it was a fire that consumed Sheff. then Broke her tow and consumed by the rough seas. Atlantic Conveyor lasted about 48hrs

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  johan

Johan the one that hit the Glamorgan did and the Lads were finding Chain links that were apart of the destructive package of the warhead it sliced through the dining hall turning formica into Razor shrapnel

David
David
1 month ago
Reply to  hmslion

According to the BBC and CNN, the Russians have stated that the ship has sunk.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago

Well the Russians know they are vulnerable and we know their CIWS EW is as useless as the rest of their ancient garbage. Neptune isn’t that sophisticated as it is based on an old and not terribly agile Russian/Soviet design. It’s nearest comparator would be…..Harpoon! I wonder if the Indonesians gave a few Neptunes back? Or if what was fired was actually a Harpoonski? Neptune + bits of Harpoon guidance system? Something changed otherwise this would have been done a while back to shut down Russian naval activities. People bang on about Russian weapons systems not realising that most of… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

Yes it’s really interesting as it’s seems to have been a launch of two missiles that Ukraine says were Neptune’s. Now the Moskva is a major surface warship and the Russian navy does not really have any newer major Surface combatants ( any large surface warship which is newer is still of that generation of soviet war ships). All they have actually managed to build in the last 40 years are a handful of 3500 ton frigates and a pair of 4500 ton frigates. So if one of their updated 12,500 ton armed to the teeth guided missile cruisers can… Read more »

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Not particularly surprising considering, at least from what I have heard, that much of the Soviet shipbuilding happened in Ukraine, hence why they had problems with maintaining or replacing junk like the Kuznetsov. This is exactly why I don’t agree with the UK focusing too much surface fleet shipbuilding in Scotland.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago

I agree.

At least Appledore and H&W are not being turned into flats.

Most of the high end metal work was done in Ukraine. Even things like rocket engine parts and some of the high temperature jet engine parts were made there.

I think this is part of the real reason that Putin went in as they could not fulfil export orders as supplies were cut off post 2014.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago

Seriously, Russian warship gets hit by anti ship missiles in the Black Sea and you have a dig at Scotland for building ships?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

He didn’t mean it like that. To me, he meant centralisation in one place. Lose that place and you are in difficulties.

However, we build fast jets in Lancashire and no one bats an eyelid.

julian1
julian1
1 month ago

Are you worried about the Lancastrian separatist movement?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  julian1

Nope! Just trying to understand what Christopher meant. I’ve no issue with out ships built in Scotland either, it’s our SOE for them.

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago
Reply to  julian1

No the Cornish!

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

Personally I would like to see the re-instated kingdom of Wessex, make Sherborne its capital for the crack. Let’s be honest all the best bits of the U.K. are in the kingdom of Wessex.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

**** Scottish independence bring back Northumbria 😀

Nick C
Nick C
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Good comment. A little less digging at the Scots, even allowing for the shrill crap that comes from the SNP and parts of the net, would raise the calibre of the debate.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Nick C

I don’t think anyone is having a go at the Scots. I don’t think it will happen but if Scotland leaves UK our surface warship building capacity will go with them. It’s a statement of fact.

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

If Scotland left the union hardly anyone would notice

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

We’d have too deport quite a few jocks to Rwanda

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

Who knew Rwanda was the place to go. What I want to know is if say an Afghan linked to the U.K. or A UKrianian is intercepted getting into the county illegally are we going to send them to Rwanda ? All seems a bit random to me, I wonder if the Home Secretary wandered around random second and third world countries with a wad of cash trying to find someone who would take immigrants for cash….its sort of counter slavery….we will send you this worker and a wad of cash. smells of crap Badly thought out idea to me,… Read more »

David
David
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Very badly thought out. Unless and until they manage to get the Nationality Bill thru the Lords, they cannot do it. Looks as if the main purpose of the announcement was to distract from the fines levied on The PM and Chancellor. Called something like “Exercise Save Mad Dog”.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  David

Yes it’s all a bit well timed “ save lame mutt”

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I think that putting it out on the ether is a scare tactic too those about too pay smugglers why pay only to be sent back to Africa ? Johnathan

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  David

…and they kept the whole 9 or 10 months discussions ‘secret’ – no Parliamentary debate. The first we hear of it is when Patel pitches up in Rwanda to sign the paperwork.

Something Different
Something Different
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Just remember the ‘our’ when you referring to warship building capacity also includes Scotland. It’s like if Scotland did become independent someone in that nation saying ‘our’ aircraft building capacity is at risk because it’s in England so to be safe some of that carport should be located north of the border.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

Wow.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Yes one might have thought the similarity can be seen and accepted without the knee-jerk reaction that it’s an attack on Scotland. It doesn’t matter what part or your Country it is, it’s the question of whether it’s likely to NOT be part of your Country at some state in the foreseeable future that’s the ACTUAL point.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Until it isn’t this is one country. ‘Our country’ 👍

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I’ve got no dog in this fight but, surely, it is two countries? However, joined by union.

Jocks want to go and get the majority, feck em off at the high port. I’ll start buying the popcorn now.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

Really good point, if there was actually a vote and Scotland left the U.K. It would be a major problem rebuilding U.K. warship building.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

But Nicole will be worried about English forces mustering on the border and recognising the English Republic of Faslaine Johnathan

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

‘Nicole’ ‘Papa’ Have you got Sturgeon confused with that attractive young lady from the old Renault adds ?

Last edited 1 month ago by David Steeper
Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

My word David you must have a Commercial phonographic memory or ate you Nicola’s Dad ?

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

Not her dad ! 😁

Last edited 1 month ago by David Steeper
Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

So you didn’t get the Royalties for all those adverts £££££🤲££££

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

😂😂I would have been happy to be paid in kind ! Ok gonna stop there this is not that kind of site.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

Now let’s be honest Nicole was…. well let’s leave it there as I’m now a middle aged married man.

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

If Scotland breaks away i’m up for recognizing the Kingdom of Galloway, Shetlands & Orkneys when they go for independence from Scotland.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago

Must admit I didn’t realise that all the major islands were Norwegian once so surely have a historical right to independence.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Shetland is closer to Norway than it is to Edinburgh

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

Shetland a s Orkney would ask for a vote to return to the U.K. I have family up there and they don’t do independent from the U.K. at all.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

Do the Cyprus thing and make it a sovereign base area. Could also do the same with Lossie….

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Could dothat for Holy lock Faslaine and Helensburgh nice one Gunbuster

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

As we have discussed here before with Gunbuster, Russian warships are indeed utter death traps, they were absolutely horrendous 25 years ago and now they will be an order of magnitude worse!

Holes cut through bulkheads to route new highly flammable cabling, virtually no one trained in fire fighting and little in the way of firefighting equipment anyway….

A horrible way to die…

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

In 78 visited Gydansk on Hms London had a look round an OSA 2 some of their crews slept by the internal stowages for missiles and we thought Hardlay pay was needed for our sleeping arrangements if your Pit was in the mess Square

David A
David A
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I read somewhere that they fired a decoy missile first then fired two Neptunes in quick succession. The decoy missile was something else.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 month ago
Reply to  David A

Turkish drone winning the votes at present.

Dave Wolfy
Dave Wolfy
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The Type 42 was commissioned 9 years before, it also had a supposedly professional crew.

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago
Reply to  Dave Wolfy

It did I was part of the staffing at h.m.s phoenix which was the fire and damage control training establishment. All R.N sailors are light years ahead of the majority of navies in this field

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

Ah! That’s why RN warships are FFBNW, they are hiding photon torpedoes given their light years ahead sailors and technology.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

Did Phoenix John knott put the dampners on that establishment It was then up too Horsea or Rayleigh until HMS Excellent came on line loved every minute of a 2day FF course ( Black and White minstrel show ) oh and black Snot for a week

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

NBCD35Q course was the one to do… Loads of FF, DC, CBRN, Stability etc. Visits to civvies especial the Southampton Fire Brigade fireschool. Hornsea Lake still sucks though and it was a lot of death by PowerPoint when in Excellent. .

PG
PG
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

There are reports that there was loss of life when the Moskva went down while under tow.

Maybe I’m being naive but, if the ship is in a good enough condition to be towed, surely things can be organised so that everyone can get off if the sea state gets the better of you?

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Dave Wolfy

See comment on type 42 losses in Falklands. RN learnt a lot. Larger ships are better than smalker light escorts for damage absorption. Distribution within the hull of critical components and redundancy etc. CIWS and point defence missiles now fitted on RN warships. Improved radat vs sea skimming missiles and saturation air attack. Sheffield was lost to an undetonated exocet that caused a large midships hull breach and extensive fire damage. Floundered whilst under tow to South Georgia due to wave water ingress. Coventry was hit by 4x1000lb bombs drop by a skyhawk from low altitude high speed attack. Very… Read more »

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Hindsight ,IF cov hadn’t altered to Stbrd and crossed in front of Broadsword and Broadswords Seawolf had a clear Shot I wouldn’t be bothered about May 25th

Jonathan
Jonathan
29 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Look how hard ardent died as well, a 3000 ton warship that had mobility even after a couple of 1000Ib bombs.

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

It will be interesting to see how sanctions will impact on the repair and maintenance of their navy. They may not be able to fix damaged kit.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob N

They’ll have too call in salvage experts too refloat her and the best salvage experts are Dutch oh their NATO ,

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
1 month ago

The French were still supplying state of the are cameras and laser rang finders for the Russian Tanks and Aircraft up until a few weeks ago, their excuse was that as the contract’s were signed before the Russian invasion of Crimea they were not subject to the sanctions. They have since stopped delivery due to the scandal on the French media. I just hope the RN has a rethink about retiring the Harpoon as this Neptune system is of similar ilk and capability and it still works so we might as well keep the Harpoons on the RN vessels as… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago

A point that I have been making for a while but when I do it just attracts loads of abuse….and to be fair so has @GunBuster.

I would say that upgrading Harpoon to the latest block would be the best interim AShM as it is a kit based upgrade that can be had for a fixed price.

The upgraded Harpoon has some pretty handy electronics and can be retargeted in flight.

Save the pennies and then go the Anglo French effort which will be a step change better.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

Considering the age of our Harpoons wouldn’t it be cheaper or at least better value for money to buy a new build AShM ?

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

It might well be but the issue is we’d have no AShM until at least 2030 if we just wait for that.

Really we should have an interim missile until FCASW is ready.

In both cases need to be launchable from F35 and ideally Typhoon as well as ship to ship.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve R

F35 we’re back to the same old problem. Waiting for Block 4 before we go all in. Typhoon or even just 1 sqd of sounds doable. Poseidon would be ideal if only we had more of them.

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Marte-ER is already integrated on Typhoon.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Have found no evidence for that. Do you have a source ?

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Part of the Typhoon for Qatar contract.

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

It isn’t integrated. Just a nice picture exists of missiles fitted to a Typhoon for PR pictures. But it could be integrated.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  John Hartley

We could make very good use of this particular missile @ John Hartley. “Conceived and developed as a multi-platform intermediate-range anti-surface weapon system capable to be launched from naval platform and coastal battery, rotary-wing and fixed-wing platforms, including both combat fast jets such as the Eurofighter Typhoon and advanced training/attack platforms, the Marte ER features a 3.6 length constant 316 mm diameter airframe with a new propulsion package based on a Williams International WJ-24-8G turbojet and new fuel system with a single ventral intake allowing the missile to achieve a range of beyond 100 km. During NAVDEX 2019 MBDA unveiled… Read more »

MBDA-MarteERfinal-CopyrightMBDA-14122021.jpg
Last edited 1 month ago by Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

The CDS command and control suite can be provided in two forms, either a single shelter hosting both sensors and the C2 suite, or a two-shelter system, one dedicated to C2 and one to sensors, which can be deployed at 1 km distance linked by fibre-optics, a safer solution in case of use of anti-radar missiles by the enemy. The standard C2 shelter architecture includes two-console, each with two screens, one for the sensor officer and one for the tactical control officer, however, a third console can be added. The sensor suite includes radar and optronic systems; Italy’s GEM and… Read more »

DIMDEX-2016-MBDA-CDS-02-MBDA-Copy.jpg
Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve R

I thought that was generally what he was suggesting get a new build but asap interim or otherwise. I know there are cost implications but I rather like the idea of having two options anyway including whatever new build was obtained now and installing it on or moving it to say T45 and let it run on into the lifetime of those vessels as we install the new Anglo/French missile systems onto all new ships. At least it means we will have some anti ship capability throughout and cover any delay in the system under development. It also means not… Read more »

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

The smart move is to buy a limited quantity of NSM. It’s clearly an easy integration effort, very new with lots of users including some major allies (Norway, Poland, US and Australia), could be moved to other vessels as FCASW arrives, or could be easily moved to a land battery, which is a capability we’ve lacked since the 90’s when the Exocet Excalibur system was retired. The best way to get it is as a dual deal with Norway…we buy NSM, they join with us in adapting Stingray for P-8 Poseidon (we both use Stingray already). Add in buying the… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

Sounds like a plan.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

Geez can we make you Min of Defence, would do exactly what we need.

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

NSM was selected as an RN stopgap ASM, but the project was canceled for lack of money… we would just carry the gap… that ‘wisdom’ looks more and more foolish…

Ryan Brewis
Ryan Brewis
1 month ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

Odds of FCASW being certified on F35s and P8s is in all likelihood very small though so that leaves us with one missile for two platforms, another missile for another two platforms (assuming Typhoon gets FCASW) then a weird smorgasbord of four lighter missiles strewn haphazardly across the aviation fleet.
Where’s the consolidation and what loses its ASuW capability?

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Yes, as posted previously the RAN here are fast forwarding their NSM onto both the Hobarts AAW destroyers and Anzac Frigates, I think it was to 2024 so this timeframe should also doable by the RN. And I think the air launched versions plus LSRAMs for the P-8s and F35As and also TLAMs for the Hobart’s. There must be some grounds for commonalities here despite different navies and prime areas of operations. If there’s mk41 vls space on the T45s why not utilise this and go for side silos/ExLS for the CAMM as shown the Spartan and Venator concepts? Seems… Read more »

Quentin D6
Quentin D6
1 month ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

And even the latest T31 Arrowhead for Poland now showing 4×4 AShMs plus possible 32+CAMM? Quite punchy. Hope the T31s have the same potential, even half of this would be good!

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

RAN is certainly ahead of the RN. I think the Type 45 ship has sailed on NSM. Type 31 on the other hand.

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

I think the current T45 Sea Ceptor planned fit is good but too slow in delivery. I would just speed up delivery and add 4 quad NSM in the area where the Harpoon was fitted. Latter on you could fit a better replacement.

DJ
DJ
1 month ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

The accelerated RAN NSM buy also means RAN Harpoons which are Block 2 as against older RN Block 1C, will potentially become available. They are much newer & RAN has 11 ships fitted with them. None of the Harpoon system is reusable by NSM, so electronics & canisters as well as the missiles could be obtainable. The original interim AShM plan was for less than half this number of ships fitted, plus RAN war stock reloads could be used to replace the existing 1C missiles on existing ships. Perhaps an affordable interim buy.

expat
expat
1 month ago

I’d agree the latest Harpoon performed very well in testing.

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  expat

Maybe but it is still slow compared to the latest missiles that are super/hyper sonic…

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
1 month ago

I would say it is better to have, than not have, If we get rid of Harpoon and wait till the 2030’s for a potential replacement we will have ships at sea with no offensive capability, it is extremely limited at the moment with an over reliance on 6/7 SSN’s that simply cannot be every wear at the same time. If we look at our potential adversary’s in the next few years Russia and China have to be at the top of the list and what the war in the Ukraine is showing us is that state of the art… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago

Perfect idea is buy Neptune anti ship missiles from Ukraine. It gets them money which they need. I gets the U.K. new interim anti ship missiles and they don’t cost a fortune. A win win all round.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Maybe the UK can work with Ukraine on upgrading its Neptune?

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

Although considering the fact a 12,500 ton cruiser was taken out by a 150kg warhead, maybe something smaller with a greater load out is fine, spear 3 for instance. After all the warhead size of the Cold War heavyweight anti ship missiles was about countering the Sverdlovs 4 inches of belt armour. i would imagine 8 spear 3s would do for a project 1164 cruiser, on the Moskvas performance. But also Harpoon would clearly would still do the job as well, so if an update is cheap we may as well do as you said and life Extend harpoon as… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

But was Moskva totally taken out? She did not sink. I would have thought she would have sunk if 2 good AShMs had hit her?

Dave Wolfy
Dave Wolfy
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Is the Moskva now a heavily armed cruiser significantly affecting the balance of power?
“Taken out” indeed.

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Nobody has indicated where the ship was hit and we won’t until the satalites pictures are made available

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy reeves

There is a decent video on twitter taken from about 2-3 miles away. She was hit amidship. Then a huge conflaguration likely from secondary explosions of her S1000 vulture cannister mounted heavy anti ship missiles.
Total loss.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

It’s actually pretty hard to sink a warship, especially big ships, unless the sea state is being a bit brutal. Reviewing the damage that second war cruiser took before floundering is scary. Although a Second World War cruiser had a thicker skin that a modern cruiser size warship, the modern warship has greater internal compartmentalisation. Generally speaking cruiser sized warships have alway taken a Number of big punches to sink them. as an example the Belgrano may have stayed afloat if it had all its water tight compartments sealed, there was a reason conqueror fired three Mark 8s Totalling a… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

It’s sunk. Been on bbc news amongst other sources. Sunk while under tow.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Sorry too say this Johnathan but the Sea state in San Carlos Waters wasn’t exactly Harry roughers but we still lost 2 type 21s

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago
Reply to  Tommo

Harry Roughers!

I cannot say things like that out here nobody bar Mrs Gunbuster has a clue what I am saying.

Harry Redders? = It’s hot…
Harry Black Maskers? = Masking tape.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

👍👍👍

Jonathan
Jonathan
29 days ago
Reply to  Tommo

Hi Tommo But the 21s died hard for such small frigates the Ardent especially, she took 2 bombs exploding aft as well as an unexposed bomb but keep steaming, them had a further set of hits from bombs that mobility killed her and some near misses exploded and Sprung her hull open. So she went down after taking a couple of 1000pound bombs, a load of 30mm cannon fire and a few 500 pound bombs, staying afloat for 12 hours to get the crew off was impressive. Just shows what to can take to actually sink a modern warship (… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Great answer. I learned a lot. Many thanks.

AV
AV
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Takes a lot to sink a ship….ammunition and secondary fires sank her. Lots of crew lost despite the official statements. ‘Choppy seas’ according to the Russkies 😂😂😂😂

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Hi graham, I use “taken out” as a shortening for taken out of the conflict, floundered or mission and mobility killed with no ability to be repaired within the timeframe of the present conflict is all Taken out, as I don’t like needless deaths I would alway preffer a limped home and in dry dock for 2 years over sank with all crew.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

2 words. Secondary explosions Moskva was hit amidships close to the externally carried S1000 vulture heavy anti ship missile cannisters. This is the problem with Russian or more accurately soviet warship design. They displayed a frightning number of externally mounted weaponry covering almost all available deck space. When hit these weapons are a very very high risk of secondary explosions. Moskva was destroyed yes by Ukraine successfully tracking, targetting and hitting a premiere Russian warship but its own weaponry exploding caused her loss. Therefore all Soviet era Moskva, Udaloy, Sovremy class warships are at risk of being similarly destroyed. All… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Yes most warships designs tend to try and protect the stuff that goes bang… Soviet designs do seem to have worked on the if you’re hit your done mindset. which if you are a totalitarian state makes morbid sense. After all it’s easy to mission kill a ship and as Cold War doctrine was always any major Soviet nato war would be over in weeks, there is little sense in keeping a damaged ship afloat, better to make it as offensive as possible so it can do the most damage before dying. So maybe it was by design that the… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Jonathan
Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago

SP, You’re my mate you are!

Yep looks like Harpoon isn’t as obsolete as everyone thought. Yes it needs an upgrade and a data link for modern ROE but subsonic sea skimmers with a step down or pop up terminal phase still have a place.

James
James
1 month ago

Totally agree!

France €152 million & Germany €121.8 million in military sales to Russia since the 2014 embargo.

As I understand France main contribtution for Ukraine has just been a few dozen milan anti tank missles.

As I understand it was only external pressure which had prevented the sale of two Mistral class ships to Russia for €1.2bn.

Jonno
Jonno
1 month ago

The French tried to sell the Russians two of their nice helicopter landing ships. They were eventually pressured out of it. The French are a disgrace. They just don’t think right.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonno

For someone so keen to eradicate ‘Nazis’ Putin sure has a lot of extreme right wing friends. If Le Pen gets in she’s keen to keep taking oil and gas.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonno

The French were under contract by the Russians to build 2 Mistrel’s but after the invasion of Crimea there was so much flak from the rest of Europe and Nato they (France) then sold them off cheap to the Algerians.

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
1 month ago

Pity that the RN didn’t get one of them at a discount!!

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago

With outside toilets the French way

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 month ago

Wasn’t it to Egypt not Algeria?

Frank62
Frank62
1 month ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Correct, they went to Egypt.

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago

The French? We gads Mann surely thou dost jest that would be unthinkable even if they’ve got previous for doing it will the Exocet in the 1980’s

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago

The French will sell anything to anyone. During the Falklands they were supporting Super French planes and missiles as the UK was fighting Argentina. The have also sold kit to China and see it as a customer. I suspect this was one reason they went mad over AUKUS, they did not want to have to chose sides and loose a customer. The fact they are selling to Russia does not Surprise…

Andy reeves
Andy reeves
1 month ago

The French have previous for clandestinely supplying missiles and parts to nations going back as far as the Falklands when it sold Exocet to the Argentine’s

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago

Amusingly the Moskva itself was built in Ukraine.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Sunk near where it was made. I found out today it the class have 10 533mm heavyweight torpedoes that a fired from doors near the back.
On paper the ship has good air defences . S300f missiles, OSA anti air missiles and 4/6 kashtan 30mm CIWS.
What a mess the war is. Russias kit is going to be decimated. Hopefully they give up soon.

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago

Perhaps it was a RN Harpoon that is being said to be a Neptune… we said we would give them anti-ship missiles.

David
David
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob N

US sources (Atlantic Council) say that the UK has supplied Harpoons to Ukraine.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 month ago

I know Ukraine made most of the sensors for a Russian weapons, in particular the air to surface Kh32s. New factories were set up in Belarus and Russia, to reverse engineer these sensors. But I believe they were having issues sourcing some of the components. Might explain why they’re being so frugal with guided weapons and using dumb bombs and rockets instead.

France also supplied the optics and fire computer for the latest T90s. That were then being built in Russia. They also pulled the plug on those. I’m not sure what they’re using instead!

Netking
Netking
1 month ago

The Anti-ship missile will do to the surface fleet what the anti-tank missile is doing to tanks. I’ve had quite a few lively discussions on this site with people who remain skeptical about how effective AShM are and I remain convinced that these things are lethal to any surface vessel not equipped and crew not rained properly. It has not been confirmed if this ship was hit by the Ukrainian neptune missile but if it was, it is noteworthy that the neptune isn’t even considered one of the more advanced AShM out there. Not hypersonic, not stealthy and likely not… Read more »

ExcalibursTemplar
ExcalibursTemplar
1 month ago
Reply to  Netking

👍

expat
expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Netking

So was it really a Neptune missile. There’s quite a few NATO jets flying ‘air policing missions’ in neighbouring countries. LRASM is stealthy and has a range of 500km. 🙂

Paul Bestwick
Paul Bestwick
1 month ago
Reply to  Netking

Two things I read that might help explain what happened. The fire control radar (the one with the ability to look in detail) on the Slava Class only has a 180 degree aspect and its was claimed that the Ukrainians had a drone up at long range from the ship, but in a direction away from the missile approach. The other thing was that there was a storm in the Black Sea yesterday evening. Neptune is an all weather system.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Netking

True, if tanks are obsolete because of anti-tank weapons then so are all AFVs. Dismounted men are obsolete because of the myriad ways they can be killed or wounded by anti-personnel weapons. This inescapable but bizarre logic would cause you to disband armies.

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Tanks fitted with an active protection system are not out of date.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob N

Thanks rob. You beat me too it. Does of course mean only buying 60 Trophy APS for our fleet of 148 proposed Chally 3s is madness. Trophy needs fitting to ever Chally3, Ajax (if it ever enters service) Boxer, Warrior (until retired but as long as in service it needs Trophy) AS90, MLRS, etc etc. In essence every armoured vehicle going into a conflict zone. Not sure what the price per Trophy unit is but surely better than taking the casualties Russian army has taken, which British army at current size couldnt sustain or tolerate.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Is trophy system really that good against all incoming missiles and rounds? I don’t know much about how good it is. I know roughly how it works. There will probably be a way to beat it somehow.
If it comes that all incoming threats can be defeated that is a fantastic capability and a real game changer

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob N

I don’t hold to the view that tanks are obsolete, whether they have APS or not, although it is clearly better that they have it rather than not.
I was narrating the ridiculous logic that follows if anyone thinks tanks are obsolete merely because a counter exists, then everything in an army’s inventory including its soldiers would be obsolete.
Tanks (and any other hardware) will only be obsolete if and when most tank-owning nations take them out of service.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Although it’s not as laughable as you may think. The way heuristic AI is going as well as things like quantum communications we may see battle spaces filled with nothing apart from massive swarms of drones that would overwhelm any human based assets and can only be combated by another drone swarm. The future battle my be dominated by loads of drone swarms murdering each other. Last drone swarm standing wins.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Forecasts can be wrong. Sounds like when the death of the music CD was predicted 20 or more years ago. I still listen to mine.

Jonathan
Jonathan
29 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

That because your old Graham, sad but true. I’ve finally begrudgingly given up on my CDs after it was explained to me that I could simple say an artist or album and it would play for me in any room I so wished…..never looked back. The world moves on even if you don’t.

AJH
AJH
1 month ago

Looks like the Russian doctrine of maximum firepower and mobility applies to the design of their ships as well as their land based armoured vehicles. The T-72 was found to be a glass cannon with appalling ammunition stowage. Evidently their major surface units are the same, formidable firepower but limited defensive measures. If the crew has been evacuated then presumably there’s no more damage control measures and she’ll likely sink?

Jay R
Jay R
1 month ago

What failed here I wonder, the AK-630 weapon system or did the ships electronic systems fail to detect the incoming missiles? It seems Russian warships are extremely well armed with offensive missile systems, but seem to be lacking in defensive and electronic counter measures. It would appear NATO warships are better protected against anti-ship missiles.

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago
Reply to  Jay R

I was wondering the same, The Slava class has some very old AA missiles, as you said, maybe they put too much effort into the offensive weapons and have not tested or trained their defences for missile attacks?

Andy A
Andy A
1 month ago
Reply to  Jay R

Did they even have defences switched on?

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy A

Do they even work?

Or were they jammed. Just like the wonderful S300 or S400 systems that never seem to work when Western or Israeli Jets are around….?

I’d bet on the latter as they won’t be very sophisticated and the Ukrainians probably have similar systems so understand how they work anyway.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago

That’s blasphemy, s400 can take out all of NATO Air Force on its own. America has been spending $200 billion a year on air forces for two decades with no idea how to knock out a single GBAD 😀 worlds most advanced radar somehow built by a country that can’t make a CASIO watch.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

I generally agree with you the S400 is very advanced indeed but that said all missile systems have their weaknesses and to work at their most effective they also have to compromise their ability to be unseen and invulnerable it’s all about expertise in hitting the sweet spot. Out of interest it’s been said that Israel’s ability to operate in Syria relies to a fair degree to cooperation with the Russians who allow them to target Iranian targets unmolested. This is because of the very strong links between the two countries many Israelis are from Russia of course, they sell… Read more »

Netking
Netking
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

I think there was some heavy sarcasm in Martin’s comment about how great the S400 is. It is no doubt a very capable system but I have no doubt it would be quickly bulldozed by a coordinated NATO attack. As I’ve been saying for years, if there is ever a conventional fight between NATO and any adversary, the least desirable job is to be the soldier manning a SAM system like the S400.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Netking

For sure, clearly NATO airforces having known about it for 20 years have not sat around doing nothing. I also find many of the claims dubious. Advanced radars need massive computing power and I find it hard to believe that Russia had access to the programmers and engineering capable of delivering.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Casio watch wasn’t that, that put NASSA on the moon ot was it a Casio pocket calculator ?

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Jay R

Appears all levels of Russian military are donkeys which is not really that surprising. We have given them too much credit for 70 years but I can’t really point at a time when they were good at war. They lost more men taking just Berlin that the western Allie’s lost combined in WW2. Shooting down an ASM is difficult for anyone. For a country that’s barley past transistors it’s not surprising they don’t have the capability. Even with T45 I doubt we would be sailing up and down the coast in range of ASM batteries.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

😂😂

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Well if you are talking 400 miles or so it’s a bit tricky not to at times or keep a bit of Crimea in the way. As for Berlin you are right Stalin taking control again ordered tanks in without sufficient infantry support (sound familiar?) and they were taken out in their hundreds by simple Panzerfaust and as a result many units rebelled, (also sound familiar?).

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

I think a type 45 or type 23 would easily manage an attack by a dozen neptune class missiles. British SAM systems are without any doubt the best in the world. Supported by very very advanced and effecyive radar technology.
Seems Slava class warships radar is beam focussed to a 180 degree threat axis. Therefore drawing it off with a drone acting as decoy would then allow the Neptunes to attack from the opposite side. Really rubbish radar technology worse than even the County class RN destroyers sent to the Falklands in 1982.

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I think they could however ship defence systems often go wrong. I’m sure we would not have such a unit sitting in range unless it was on task then it would be for a short duration. It’s like sending tanks in unsupported.

Dewey
Dewey
1 month ago
Reply to  Jay R

Speculation I’ve read is the Ukranians used a bayraktar TB2 drone to distract the Moskva’s air defences to a high level target, while the Neptune’s were sea skimming, with the drone taking footage of the ship after it was hit.

Nick C
Nick C
1 month ago
Reply to  Dewey

Have any of those pictures made it into the open yet, and if so where do we look?

Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg
1 month ago
Reply to  Nick C

Not yet, no. I’d keep an eye on the Reddit page CombatFootage when it does

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Nick C

Video on twitter of the Moskva on fire. Taken from a civillian cargo ship from 2-3 miles away. Moskva is a total loss. Sunk for sure with 100% certainty.

expat
expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Dewey

Apparently Ukraine now has a smaller bayraktar drone for surveillance. This would make more sense, the Russian Navy probably would want to waste a air defense missiles on a drone and thinking any intel they get would be useless. Reality is the the bayraktar was sending back precise location and intel for the strike whilst pre occupying the crew.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  expat

Reading up about the CIWS on the Moskva is that it’s not independent like phalanx, it’s linked into the ship board electronics.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
1 month ago

Putin has lost. The Russian forces might stay on, even claim ‘mission accomplished’ but the war and its aims are lost. My fear is that that nasty bastard will pulverise Ukraine regardless.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

Hi Barry, yes, Putin could get very nasty in not accepting defeat and pushing in regardless. Let’s hope that the Ukrainian’s are well armed in quantity and quality to take them on wherever in their homeland and win through in the end. I wish the West would not keep broadcasting to the world exactly what they are sending and how much. They hopefully are sending more than they say. I hope the Russian forces in Mariupol treats the Ukrainian POWs (if reports of their surrender are true and not staged) with respect but not sure that they will not to… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

I don’t think we are broadcasting everything TBH.

It would be pointless denying the fact that the Ukrainians have loads of NLAWs.

Other things are broadcast as a deterrent effect such as the anti aircraft weapons. The Russians cannot fly low because of Starstreak and they cannot fly high because of the remaining S300’s that the Ukrainians have.

Quentin D6
Quentin D6
1 month ago

I’ve been wishing for this war to be a bit more subtle and under the radar but this is not really possible, it’s bloody and nasty. I agree on demonstrating a “deterrence” factor to the Russian forces. The Russian’s do seem to like threatening with their ability to lob things over the fence into Ukraine. Hope the Ukrainian forces can land some knockout punches on that bloody long convoy, blow the Kerch bridge up and sink some more fat naval vessels lying around just to shut up their bloody silly propaganda for a moment at least! The ruling political elites… Read more »

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago

Never mentioned Martlet and any state of the art will not be until it’s spotted I suspect.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

When you look at video from Syria and Ukraine shelling the hell out of civilian areas is pretty much Russias default war strategy. Short of chemical weapons (god forbid) I don’t know how much worse the Russians could get.

Paul B
Paul B
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

FOAB just behind the Ukranian frontline in the East. They would probably see that as not crossing the continually moving red line set by NATO/US

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul B

You’re talking about chemical weapons. Took me a while. Safe to say I hope you’re wrong.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

According to the BBC althogh not confirmed, Russian troops have been removing dead Civilians and having thr Bodies cremated with their portable crematoria’s too hide evidence of WAR crimes

David Steeper
David Steeper
29 days ago
Reply to  Tommo

Sorry not getting notifications. Yeah they’re bastards but they’ve not gone as far as Syria yet with chemical weapons. The only positive I can see is they wouldn’t be able to go ‘not me guv’ Assad can’t reach Ukraine.

Bringer of Facts
Bringer of Facts
1 month ago

More likely a missile strike rather than a fire (as reported by Russian media) Either way it makes the Russian navy look incompetent. To lose such a large capital ship so easily is a massive blow to morale.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
1 month ago

Neptune missiles are a derivative of the original russian KH35/ SSN 25 Switchblade sometimes called a “Harpoonski”. Its similar in many respects to the original western made Harpoon missile. If the Moskova was hit by 2 of these missiles chances are they will go for the biggest radar reflective area. That would appear to be right underneath the missile launchers down the port/stbd side. Those cutouts beneath the missiles are massive radar reflectors. A slava’s radar is hardly state of the art . It doesn’t have a fast rotation speed when compared to say a T23 or T45 and its… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

I agree with all of that.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Oh I don’t know. The Argentine Navy doesn’t hold many records. They might be cheesed off ! Still hold the record for the only warship to turn turtle while tied up alongside so that might help !

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Some of the Argentinian’s still think they sank HMS Invincible…

Mind you some think we sank the ARA Santa Luis….the only RN ship within 2000 miles was a River Class patrol Ship…in many ways it would have been worse to have been sunk by one of those (which has no ASW kit or weapons) than to just have had an accident…

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

I know apparently it’s still on the AAF’s homepage with accompanying picture of USS Hornet being sunk by the Japanese Navy during WW2. ARA Santa Luis was messed up even for the Argentine Navy. A sentence you don’t hear very often.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Such a sad pointless waste of life.

A submarine that should never have been in service due to its poor condition.

Tommo
Tommo
1 month ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

If they had got the Sinvincible We wouldn’t have had any trouble with Andrew Winsdor

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Cheers Gunbuster. Good detailed reply. Just checked Belgrano and Moskva are roughly same didplacement give or take full loading.

Marked
Marked
1 month ago

So they are vulnerable to anti ship missiles but we still don’t see the sense in arming our ships with them. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so tragic.

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Spearfish torpedo, Stingray torpedoes. Martlet & Sea Venom. Sea Ceptor has a secondary anti ship capability for small craft, and Spear 3 will also be able to saturate a warships defenses. Nothing is laughable or tragic.

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

The usual sad excuses.

How many subs do you think we have? Of them how many are available? Of the available how many are likely to be in the right place?

The other systems you mention are for small craft. If you think anything would survive to get in range to launch against a large ship you’re deluded.

Spear 3 is the usual jam tomorrow story.

If you don’t think having a navy with next to no ability to sink enemy ships is tragic then your are beyond help.

It’s not like the raf can even help either!

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

The only thing that is tragic is your reply. We are part of NATO. It isn’t our 7 Nuclear subs against the rest of the world. You need to educated yourself pal.

SteveP
SteveP
1 month ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Other NATO countries don’t leave long range, heavyweight SSM’s off their escorts (even the countries that underspend on defence against the 2% target). I think that the RN is in a sad minority of 1 because of bean counting not as a result of a thorough analysis of the capabilities it needs to have and those that it can rely on others for

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

How many escorts do the Dutch, Danes and Norwebians have out of interest to escort our ships in the North and Arctic seas. Can’t always rely on the US having too many spares to protect them and the subs will have their prime task of finding and trailing Russian equivalents.

Deep32
Deep32
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Probably about 10 or so ASW assets between them, throw in 5/6 German ASW ships and our 8 T24s, and you get just shy of 24/25 ASW ships. Clearly all wouldn’t be available at the same time, but you get the gist, not to shabby a force if required. If you include the US (Atlantic fleet), Fr and ourselves, we probably outnumber the available Russian SSN force by some 3 or 4 to 1. Yes we would still have to deal with their SSBN force, but then again they would have to deal with ours to. I suspect we could… Read more »

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  Deep32

You already know you played top trumps when you cited our 8 T24s (sic) and you of all people know there is a fraction of that fleet at sea.

Equally, other NATO forces have similar issues, so, yes, quire shabby for the Atlantic, North Sea, Arctic climes.

Don’t answer, are all the Atutes at sea?

Deep32
Deep32
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

Ah typo on my part. Should of course have said T23. Numbers I stated are roughly what those countries have in ASW ships, clearly not all available at any one time as posted!
Assume it referring to an Astute with your last line,?? No idea, less then 4 as that’s all we’ve currently got in service. Do you know then?

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

You need to look at a map pal. The other nato nations also have their own waters and defence to look after. You have the naive assumption everyone is going to make supporting our toothless navy a priority. Carry on deluding yourself if it makes you happy.

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

I don’t think defence is for you Marked. your angry comments are so wide of the mark. Anti ship warfare is incredibly complicated. The kill chain, find, track, engage is very complex. We use helicopters to sink ships in the littoral, nuclear subs to sink big vessels. Just 1 or 2 Astute class could create havoc for any fleet. They are the best anti ship killers in the world. Surface vessel anti ship missiles are mainly as a fall back option. To target a moving warship at great range, that could be a low observable design, deploying EW and ECM,… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
28 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

This bizarre belief that people have that somehow escort vessels will be launching Heavyweight ASMs at each other from hundreds of miles away. Some the radar and electromagnetic horizon/conditions don’t not matter if you have a large anti ship missile with a range of 200miles.

I think a lot of people also underestimate what an SSN is. How strategically mobile they are compared to surface vessels and what deadly weapon a heavyweight torpedo is to a surface ship. There is a profound lack of understanding of What a single western SSN means.

Peter tattersll
Peter tattersll
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

We’ve far to much for the Russian navy fact

Peter tattersll
Peter tattersll
1 month ago

We certainly wouldn’t need any help from Nat fighting Russian. UK would win easy . The bloke replying to you is a Russian troll taking sh..

Marked
Marked
1 month ago

Can’t believe how deluded you guys in here are. The royal navy has absolutely nothing bar a couple of available subs to fight off a surface threat.

Marked
Marked
1 month ago

Really! What do you propose our surface fleet fires at them? Strongly worded insults?

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

As the only navy that has actually fought a blue water engagement post 1945 the RN does have reasons why ASM ship and aircraft launched are seen as secondary weapons.

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  Martin

Did you miss the fact that anti ship missiles caused heavy losses in that war?

Did you miss the fact that Russias flagship had just been lost to the same weapon type?

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
29 days ago
Reply to  Marked

It’s true that anti ship missiles caused heavy losses in the Falklands war, but they were air launched from aircraft, or in HMS Glamorgan’s case a shore battery. There isn’t one example of a missile being fired from a ship and I honestly can’t find one case of a surface combatant detecting, tracking and launching ASM against a modern warship.

Jonathan
Jonathan
29 days ago
Reply to  Marked

Yes but none of these missiles were launched from ships. The RN has probably the most combat experience of any navy in the last 40 years and has never fired a ship launched anti ship missile in anger.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Ummm, I think you may be being a bit extreme here. You have to look at the who Navy and it’s operations not individual ships. Russian surface vessels are armed as they are to be surface raiders, they are designed strike targets for as long as they can before dying. Western and specifically the RN escorts are escorts they are there to keep shipping lanes open and defend other assets. The RNs key strike assets revolve around air and undersea. Yes we only have a few SSNs but one SSN can hunt and kill any number of surface ships, Infact… Read more »

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I agree with you regarding Spear as long as the F 35 can get into range a swarm of those will be as good as impossible to stop and you don’t need to sink a ship, as good as that looks for pr you just need to disable its ability to operate, it’s eyes and ears in particular. That said it would be great to have the option once that operation had taken place and reduced its capabilities to then hit it with something heavier. In any long conflict indeed when capabilities are gradually reduced and compromised both capabilities would… Read more »

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Getting 8 spear 3 hits on a ship covered in so many large missiles would probably be very fatal very quickly.

Dragonwight
Dragonwight
1 month ago

Clever ambush indeed. Heavy storm provides cover and maximises effect. I can only imagine what it’s like to be on a ship hit by missiles on fire in heavy seas. I read somewhere the Ukrainians have some 70+ Neptune missiles. I have no idea if its true. But its got to get the Russians thinking. We’ll done Ukraine.

Puffing Billy
Puffing Billy
1 month ago

It seems all the crew survived – seems strange? With ammunition going off and fires creating dense smoke and heat. Just surmising but could it be sabotage?? The areas Russia is invading are mostly Russian speaking; he is murdering his own people.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Puffing Billy

With that last sentence you sound like Macron. Never a good sign.

Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg
1 month ago
Reply to  Puffing Billy

Agreed. No chance – if the magazines detonated, far fewer than 500 sailors made it off that deathtrap

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Puffing Billy

Unverified figures out of Sevastopol, where she is now alongside, are 20 injured and 5 dead.

Rob
Rob
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

No it has sunk.

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Funny, every other media report says it’s at the bottom of the Black Sea where it belongs 😂

JamesD
JamesD
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

You sure about that…

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

I think the Russian media have said she’s sunk under tow. That’s what the bbc and others are quoting. Where did you get the info that she made it to Sevastopol?

Andy B
Andy B
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

If that’s true I’m sure satellite pictures will verify shortly. Then these unverified figures you should surely be questioning.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

She’s not in Sevastopol matey. She’s at the bottom of the black sea.
No way casualties were that light. She was on fire from bridge back to hangar. Total loss. Likely with very large casualties.
If she is in sevastapool post a picture or link to prove that.
Pentagon says she has sunk
Bbc says she has sunk
Dont believe Putin’s media. They are all controlled by the Kremlin and talking utter tosh.

Wolf
Wolf
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Why is the Russian Defence Ministry then telling us that she has sunk?

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

This propaganda didn’t age well Ivan…

Russians can’t lie without sounding like a comedian.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Not quite, look again. It was a fine-looking ship until Neptune arrived on the scene.

FQRycPuXsAMIdd9.jpeg
Last edited 1 month ago by Nigel Collins
Mark Franks
Mark Franks
1 month ago

Just a coincidence that a Slava class destroyer explodes and bursts into flames. Judging by the amount of NATO Intel assets in the east of Romania at the time it looks as though the Ukrainians have pulled off a major coup.

Challenger
Challenger
1 month ago

Whatever the Russian Ministry of Defence says assume the opposite to be true!

Lets hope she’s either ruined beyond repair or has sunk. Will hopefully make them a bit more wary of littoral operations and enable Ukraine to redistribute some of their resources eastwards.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago

A co-incidence that Boris said a couple of days ago that the UK would be giving Ukraine ‘anti-ship missile systems’?

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

No it won’t be a coincidence. We gave them something that helped them to do this and turn what they already had into a ‘system’ would be my guess. Try this: It might be that as UK were collaborating with Ukraine on new navy vessels there was a system being built that allowed them to fire with some particular piece of sensitive tech. As it has become clear that the Ukrainians are not going to roll over it is worth risking the sensitive tech to kick the Russian navy into touch. Maybe, maybe not. It might just have been a… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago

I think this incident is a turning point. Putin will see that plan A for taking Odesa won’t succeed.
Biden has announced he is sending 155mm artillery from US inventories, with 40,000 rounds, locating radars and air surveillance radars. The last week the UK and the US between them have gifted Ukraine 400 APCs and protected mobility vehicles and a whole load more ATGM.

McZ
McZ
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Plan A was taking Mykolaev, and then going to Odessa. That plan has failed miserably, as Ukrainian forces are pressing to reverse the Russian advance back over the Dnipro, encircling the 22nd army group around Cherson in the process. If that happens, the road is open to Armiansk, Feodosia, Kerch. Which would basically seal the fate of most Russian troops in Southern Ukraine, and may be the last nail into Putins coffin.

Last edited 1 month ago by McZ
Harry Bulpit
Harry Bulpit
1 month ago

You know your navy is in a bad state of affairs when claiming your flagship was lost by a onboard fire, is more believable then it being sunk by enemy fire.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

😂😂

Pete
Pete
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

More believable and apparently more desirable. ‘No we weren’t hit by a contemporary AshM….no…..our vessel just spontaneously combusted setting off a chain reaction..’. Well that would fill the Rus Navy boys with confidence.

Harry Bulpit
Harry Bulpit
1 month ago
Reply to  Pete

Hence why I lean more towards Russia side of the story. No discredit to the Ukrainians but why would someone admit to such an embarrassing situation if not true.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

Because they are hiding a worse case scenario behind half truths. The truth is Moskva was targetted by Ukraine. Hit by 2 sea skimming but not particularly advanced Anti ship missiles which triggered a massive series of secondary explosions from the cannister mounted S1000 vulture heavy anti ship missiles. Russia doesnt want to admit their inability to detect, track, target and destroy 2 such less than cutting edge weapons. Russia also doesnt want to admit that the Slava class (also probably their Udaloy and Sovremy class warships) are death traps by design. Having so many heavy weapons monuted externally and… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

Because an act of god, is not strategically important, not being able to operate of the Ukriane cost for fear of lossing major surface vessels is. This is about internal optics not what the rest of the world thinks.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago

The usual grandstanding of supposed Russian military superiority.

What experience do they have in defending against an ASM? Their people may be as incompetent as many in their army appear to be.

The RN, which was already well trained, learned the hard way in 1982.

I look forward to more of their fleet sinking to the bottom if they show their noses off Ukraine’s coast. Now F off back to Sevastopol.

Slava Ukraini.

Phylyp
Phylyp
1 month ago

> Now F off back to Sevastopol

If it’s all the same to you, I’d rather they go all the way back to St. Petersburg, and Ukraine gets Sevastopol.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Phylyp

Hmmm, Sevastopol was retained by Russia when Ukraine got independence, so even by some miracle Ukraine got Crimea back the port is even more unlikely.

Nestor Mahkno
Nestor Mahkno
1 month ago

Pretty sure russia violated the terms of the Sevastopol 2042 lease back in 2014. It is ukrainian territory. legally if not de facto.

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago

I’ll raise you wiyh Vladivostock.

Paul42
Paul42
1 month ago

By all accounts she’s still afloat and fire is out. The Russians are planning to tow her to port? That sounds surprising as without a team fighting it, I would have thought the fire would actually be spreading……

Nick Cole
Nick Cole
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul42

Which port? Mariupol?

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Nick Cole

Sevastopol. If she’s still afloat.

Rob
Rob
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul42

If it’s being towed that means the engine rooms have been destroyed and / or flooded. No casualties? An ammunition explosion and fire are a sailors worse nightmare. All this in a heavy sea state. I’d put money on hundreds of casualties.

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob

She went back to port under her own power, not towed.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Then she’s the first Russkie rust bucket to return to port without using the default SOP ie a tug!

Rob
Rob
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

High mate. Do you know if Milton Keynes is a Russian Oblast or does John come from somewhere else? Just asking. 🤔

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Twitter ( Ukraine weapons tracker) now saying she’s sunk while under tow.

Rob
Rob
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

It was towed, all media outlets have the same story. The thing is broken, burnt and it was so bad at least some of the crew were in the water. If the Captain isn’t dead he soon will be once the Court Marshall starts. On the up side we know it wasn’t towed by 🚜s unlike the rest of the Russian forces.

Rob
Rob
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Actually even the Russians have admitted it has SUNK! 😆😆😂😂👍🏼

OldSchool
OldSchool
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob

No,No. Its not ‘officially ‘ sunk until JinMK says so 😂.

Sean
Sean
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Sure Pinocchio 😂

Frank62
Frank62
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Even Russian media has reported her sunk. But going by their constant lying she could be afloat & operational! Or maybe it’s a cunning experiment at making major warships submersibles? A human tragedy though.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Prove it. Post a picture of her back in port. She is at the bottom of the black sea. Sunk. Total loss.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Out of interest can you provide sources where you get your info. I’m genuinely interested in getting a broad spectrum of info. This is what I found MOSCOW, April 14. /TASS/. The Moskva missile cruiser sank while being towed amid storm because of hull damage sustained during the detonation of ammunition, Russian Defense Ministry said Thursday. “During the towing of the Moskva cruiser to the designation port, the ship lost stability due to hull damage, sustained during the detonation of ammunition because of a fire. Amid the heavy storm, the ship sank,” the Ministry said. The Ministry underscored that the… Read more »

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Her new port in this case being the bottom of the Black Sea.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Even Russian state media said she was under tow when she sank in rough seas.

For once I’m tempted to believe them.

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Pmsl! Ivan embarrasses himself again.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul42

MOSCOW, April 14. /TASS/. The Moskva missile cruiser sank while being towed amid storm because of hull damage sustained during the detonation of ammunition, Russian Defense Ministry said Thursday.
“During the towing of the Moskva cruiser to the designation port, the ship lost stability due to hull damage, sustained during the detonation of ammunition because of a fire. Amid the heavy storm, the ship sank,” the Ministry said.
The Ministry underscored that the crew was evacuated to nearby Black Sea Fleet ships, as was announced earlier.

Lusty
Lusty
1 month ago

There’s a claim going around that they (the Ukrainians) took advantage of the weather and Russian technological/training limitations to pull off the strike. According to some sources, they flew a Bayraktar drone around the ship to effectively ‘distract’ Moskva.. then they hit it with their Neptune missiles. That’s unverified of course, and it should be taken with a pinch of salt at this moment. What is true is that they have been flying their drones over the Black Sea, and the Russian MoD released a video of a frigate allegedly targeting one only a few days ago. What’s also true… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Lusty

Look what the cat dragged in….! Hello mate!

Lusty
Lusty
1 month ago

Well hello there!

Steve R