The Marine Scotland vessel Jura expelled an Irish trawler from UK waters off Rockall on Monday.

The Irish Department of Foreign Affairs said it was aware of “contact between an Irish fishing vessel and a Marine Scotland patrol vessel” and was now in contact with Scottish and UK authorities.

Skipper of the ‘Northern Celt’ Adrian McClenaghan told RTÉ News he had been issued with a temporary licence to fish in UK waters but that the permission came with a stipulation that he cannot fish within 12 nautical miles of Rockall. That is because it is classed as an ‘EU vessel’.

McClenaghan was quoted in the Irish Examiner as saying:

“We were fishing in Rockall and members of the crew from the Jura boarded us. They informed us that we could no longer fish inside the 12-mile limit of Rockall. The Scottish navy are continuing to patrol and we’re waiting on further instructions from the Department of Foreign Affairs on what their next move will be.”

Readers should be aware that there is no such thing as “the Scottish Navy”, the vessels belongs to Marine Scotland, a civilian organisation in Scotland responsible for leading the protection of Scotland’s coastal waters and seas. Marine Scotland is responsible for enforcing the Marine (Scotland) Act in devolved areas such as commercial fishing.

The Irish Times also make the mistake of referring to “the Scottish Navy” here.

MPV Jura was built at Ferguson’s Shipyard, Port Glasgow. She was launched in 2005 and entered service in March 2006. Currently the largest vessel in the agency fleet at 84 metres in length and with a tonnage of 2,181. She has a crew of 17, a top speed of 18 knots and is used mainly for offshore enforcement tasks.

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John Clark

I’m surprised, I thought the Scottish government would welcome an EU fishing vessel …. So leave the lights on for us, but please don’t fish in my pond!

Bit of a conflicting message 😉

4th watch

Its the Cake Fish speaking- ‘have and eat’.

Mark

We want to stay part of the EU, however we have an election coming up in May and want to try and get fishing communities votes.

In other news, two more Irish Navies ships are out of service with Covid outbreaks, and another hull with a potential case. Yeats and Ciara are the two ships.

John Clark

“We want to remain in the EU”

That particular Scottish fishing protection vessel has already sailed Mark….

Fedaykin

Yes a majority of people who live in Scotland myself included wanted to stay in the EU.

You wait and see how things start to pan out after the upcoming Scottish Elections…

Mark B

If there had not been a 2014 referendum and we had not just come out of Europe and we were not dealing with a pandemic and the polls in Scotland were showing a two thirds majority in favour the UK would just draw up the terms and sign the deal. No more referendums anytime soon we would rather quell an uprising.

Douglas Newell

You wait until the Scottish People realise what SNP Separatism would lead to … * A hard border between Scotland & England and all the paperwork it entails. England amounts to over 60% of Scottish Exports (the EU only 16%) and Passports needed to visit friends and family in the rest of the UK. * A continuing hard border between Scotland and EU for at least 10 years, and would the Scots actually vote “yes” to return to the EU and give up their fishing industry to the French. *No additional monies from the UK via the Barnett System. The… Read more »

Fedaykin

* A hard border between Scotland & England and all the paperwork it entails. England amounts to over 60% of Scottish Exports (the EU only 16%) and Passports needed to visit friends and family in the rest of the UK. Quite possibly, it would be a worthwhile price to get my EU citizenship back eventually. * A continuing hard border between Scotland and EU for at least 10 years, and would the Scots actually vote “yes” to return to the EU and give up their fishing industry to the French. No way to know if it would be ten years… Read more »

Alan Reid

Fedaykin

I can read that your wish to remain an EU citizen is passionate and genuine – but it should not be achieved at the economic detriment of myself and fellow Scots!

I think some of your “manifesto” is highly questionable.

SNP supporters are not Europhiles, they’re only kidding you on!

Scotland will not be back in the EU anytime soon – either as part of the UK, or as an independent state.

Fedaykin

“I think some of your “manifesto” is highly questionable.
SNP supporters are not Europhiles, they’re only kidding you on!”

I am not an SNP member or supporter, as I have mentioned before here I am a card carrying member of the Liberal Democrats…the most pro EU party in the country.

Scotland will not be back in the EU anytime soon – either as part of the UK, or as an independent state.”

Well from my position I hope you are wrong about that…

Andy P

Like Fedaykin, I’m not woad wearing FREEDUMMMM fighter but when I read the list of woes that get presented when Scottish indy gets mentioned I can understand why it gets so many peoples backs up. Do you think that Scotland would somehow be uniquely unable to manage their own affairs ?? Did you believe the tales of woe that the media were telling us about the UK leaving the EU ??? I don’t want Scottish independence and I didn’t want to leave the EU. I’m sure that the UK will manage fine outside the EU and while I have more… Read more »

Douglas Newell

The Separatists love to tell us about the land of milk of honey we’ll live in when Scotland leaves the UK, I like to point out the realities of this. Which part of the what I said was wrong? * The Hard Border between England and Scotland? * The loss of Barnett Consequentials? * Scotland’s current deficit? * The difficulty we’d have to meet the 3% deficit target to get join the Euro and get back into Europe. I’m sorry that hearing about hard realities of what Scottish separatism really means, gets your back up, but I feel that the… Read more »

Fedaykin

If you look at my answer at no point did I say it would be milk and honey but I did point out that I wasn’t bothered about some of your ‘negatives’ and I saw the rest as pure speculation. I made it clear that I see real challenges in the concept. I at least took the time to respond point by point. “Part of their modus operandi is to join areas such as this and spread their propaganda.” Projection, I participate on this site primarily to comment on defence related matters. I would strongly argue that you are also… Read more »

Douglas Newell

I never said you mentioned the “land of milk and honey” — that was a comment in general about the lies of the SNP. I primarily use this site to learn about and discuss military matters. But I see it as my duty to challenge Scottish Nationalism when I see it as as so many in Scotland have been cowed by Cybernat bullying. (For the record – I am not accusing you of that.) Why? Because Nationalists are trying to make it seem like what they say is the will of the Scottish people. Cue Ian Blackford weekly in Parliament… Read more »

Fedaykin

“As one of the million or so Scots who voted to leave the EU, and who stopped voting Lib Dem in Westminster elections due to their Pro-EU stance, I’m glad we’re finally out. And I’ll fight like hell to stop the UK, and if necessary a newly independent Scotland, from ever joining it again.” Well that is your democratic right but I do ask when you do commence that fight to stay in the Union and prevent rejoining the EU with perfectly reasonable passion you will take a pause to understand why people like myself who are passionately pro-EU feel… Read more »

Douglas Newell

You do know that in terms of trade and movement of people, the UK matters a hell of a lot more than the EU to business and people in Scotland.

I have a heck of a lot more family and friends in England, Wales and NI than in Europe. As an Englishman, I assume you do too.

But yes, Armistice.

Mark B

Andy, regardless of the merits (or otherwise) of an independent Scotland I personally cannot foresee any circumstances where the UK population as a whole will want to put this proposition back on the table. This might be upsetting for some Scots but this is the reality. Referendums produce division and hatred and everyone has had their fill of that. No good can come of it. The Scots have control of almost everything other than defence and foreign policy they need to be content with that whilst we all heal from Brexit.

Andy P

Mark B, for better or worse, Scottish independence isn’t down to the UK population, its down to the people of Scotland, to suggest otherwise is supremely arrogant. Using extreme numbers to make a point but if 90% of Scots voted for a party that said “vote for us for independence” then it would be hard to ignore. A Westminster government that did ignore it would just be building up more resentment and desire for independence. This isn’t something I want but I fear its going to happen. BoJo can say NO as and when the SNP romp the next Scottish… Read more »

Mark B

In practice though Andy you must accept that you need a UK Government sympathetic to the idea of yet another referendum when the population is fed up to the back teeth of them. To put it in a manifesto would be suicidal. For MPs to vote for one especially in a marginal constituency would be folly. Yes I agree the Scots can make a lot of noise but as neither of the main parties have anything to gain by associating themselves with such a move it is difficult to see how to move forward. That said if the Scots were… Read more »

Andy P

Mark B, You don’t seem to get my point on this. To try and give an analogy, if the EU had said that the UK couldn’t leave unilaterally I’m sure there would be a few folk with something to say about it. Its the same with Scottish independence. If the SNP get in with over 50% of the votes they will see this as a mandate to push for another referendum (they’ll probably do it anyway with less than 50% of the votes but the most seats). You can’t fault the logic, all they’ll be saying is there is grounds… Read more »

Mark B

Andy until 2007 and the Lisbon Treaty there was no mechanism to leave the EU. Whilst as a sovereign parliament we could have revoked the appropriate legislation and break international treaties that would have been problematic and would have lost us friends worldwide. I doubt the population would have supported it. When Catalonia declared UDI the world supported Spain and would not recognise Catalonia. The reason is obvious – the vast majority of Countries have autonomous states or regions or even Countries. Florida or Texas could not leave the Union it would be unthinkable and the same goes around the… Read more »

Andy P

An independent Scotland isn’t something I crave Mark, just putting that out there for starters. I’d be delighted if the current ‘Dear Leader’ and the previous title holder implode the party in the latest round of ‘Eck-gate’ but I can’t see it. I get the fear that Scotland will leave the UK, not for any ideological reasons but for the practical ones like finance etc but I didn’t want to leave the EU for similar reasons, we did though. From a selfish perspective I reckon we’d be alright in an indy Alba but plenty wouldn’t I fear. There really is… Read more »

Mark B

I have to say that I am perfectly happy with an independent Scotland if done in an amiable way but would resist parting on bad terms as it cannot be good for anyone. I would not be surprised if that were a common viewpoint either side of the border. . The people thing is interesting. People are by their very nature very tribal. For instance in the US people are firmly Democrat or Republican it is almost like it is in their DNA and they will come out and support their party. Donald however found out on Wednesday that votes… Read more »

Andy P

Mark B, I’ve no idea if you’re on the wind up or just a bit ‘blinkered’.

Mark B

I like a good wind up but not today. The fact is that Scotland is not a priority anywhere other than Scotland. We have other fish to fry. No distractions permitted. If that is blinkered then what am I missing?

Andy P

Ah, gotcha, just blinkered then. Fair enough.

Mark B

😂😂😂

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken

Just a wee note of clarification. The majority of those who voted in the motherland voted to remain ‘‘tis true but only from a 67% turnout., about 1.5 million as opposed to a million who wanted out. That’s not the same as your statement that the majority of Scots who live here wanted to stay in the EU as unless they all could vote you just can’t make that claim. The last GE 1.2 million voted for the Scottish nationalist party. I think you will find when Joe public realise the sky hasn’t fallen in on them now we are… Read more »

Well said, from a Scotsman not an English….er, interloper….The most vocal always seem to be the most recently converted. Stay safe LP Chicken.

Daniele Mandelli

Bravo Artist, bravo.

By Toutatis!

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken

Ha ha I’m a jock mind so excuse my ignorance but I don’t use Latin or foreign lingo like Gaelic 😂 I could google but you can tell me By toutatis ? I can honestly say that’s a new one on me man 😃

👍🏻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken

Oh and a i’ll Just add to my earlier post a wee tit bit of further info for my fellow Brits who owing to them being from the south are sometimes a wee bity less informed (not yourself Daniele 😃) but the people of Scotland care more about the issue of the Union here in the U.K. than the issue of the union with the EU as clearly demonstrated for all to see with the turnout of 84.6% for Scot Indy vs the Eu ref of 67% It can all be summed up by the legend that is Rab C… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli

Mate, sorry.

You said “Joe public realise the sky hasn’t fallen in on them”

Well it reminded me of the Asterix books where the Gauls were terrified of the sky falling on their heads! And “By Toutatis” was a well used Gaulish catchphrase.

Toutatis was a Celtic deity worshipped in Gaul and Britain.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken

Ha ha ah yes Asterix I read all the books as a whippersnapper . Had forgotten all about it.😂

Alan Reid

Fedaykin As a Scot, I also voted to remain in the EU during 2016. However, your statement is misleading – or cannot be substantiated. “Yes a majority of people who live in Scotland myself included wanted to stay in the EU“. In the 2016 EU Referendum, from a Scottish Electorate of 4M ….1.7M voted to remain in the EU, 1M voted to leave – and 1.3M couldn’t even be bothered to vote! There is no doubt that “remain” was the decisive sentiment of those Scots who voted. But turnout was well down on the 2014 independence referendum. But we also… Read more »

John Clark

I honestly don’t think it will matter how the vote goes to be honest Fedaykin, when people realise that their world hasn’t imploded post BREXIT and we pull out of Covid19 and really get into our stride, the craving for Indipendance and EU membership ( quite the odd juxtaposition that one) will naturally die back. The SNP have whipped up quite the anti English sentiment, oh the mock outrage, Academy awards standard acting …. All credit to them, they learn from their past mistakes… As Mr Trump has found out, you can’t keep that level of divisive politics going forever,… Read more »

Last edited 7 days ago by John Clark
Fedaykin

“I honestly don’t think it will matter how the vote goes to be honest Fedaykin, when people realise that there world hasn’t imploded post BREXIT and we pull out of Covid19 and really get into our stride, the craving for Indipendance and EU membership ( quite the odd juxtaposition that one) will naturally die back.” I’m sorry but no it won’t the genie is out of the bottle now, the UK now ironically has one of the largest and most active Pro-EU movements in all of Europe, this is not going away. Many myself included will never forget or forgive… Read more »

Airborne

As an outside observer who would give Scotland another Indy ref, and who wouldn’t care less if they vote to leave the union, leave or join the EU or vote to move to the moon, Fedy, as a supposed Englishman living in Scotland, you do seem to be quite fanatical about the issue. So much so that your posts give the impression you seem to be what is so wrong with our country at this time. We have so much division, so much anger, that no one wants to see, or make an effort to understand the others position. I… Read more »

Fedaykin

The seething anger I felt on the issue passed a few years back but I do feel strongly about the loss of my EU citizenship not only for myself but my whole family. I feel the country has gone in the wrong direction and like many Remainers deeply disenfranchised (yes I know Brexiteers felt disenfranchised about EU membership before someone brings that up). Four years of being told “You lost get over it…” rather than as you rightly point out any attempt to understand the viewpoint of those who are pro EU has only hardened my position. The attitude of… Read more »

Airborne

I have to admit that I never felt the same close confederancy with Europe, even though I was a 51-49 percenter for remain. We can still travel, work or live, we just need a visa. Same as the students who come here, workers etc. Why should an Indian brain surgeon, for example, have to jump through visa hoops, pay money, when a Romanian (for example) street beggar can get on a coach and be here in 24 hours? That to me can be deemed as totaly unfair, none inclusive, possibly deemed even racist and arrogant (let’s ensure white Europeans can… Read more »

John Clark

Well said Airborne and I would echo your sentiments, hope everyone stays safe and we all get the vaccine soon.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken

John I’m beginning to think you have shares in Pfizer ? ..you do don’t you you cheeky wee rascal 😝

John Clark

EU Politburo, I thought it was quite funny to be honest, sorry if I caused offence…. Fedaykin, I appreciate your position, absolutely you’re entitled to it, it’s a democracy after all and opposing views discussed in a civilized manner enrich the debate. One of the things that made me deeply uncomfortable about the post BREXIT vote, was the very disturbing lack of loosers consent, the very bedrock of democracy. The anti democratic moves to de-rail democracy have been highly subversive and saddening to see, more so as the driving force encompassed many MP’s! They certainly paid a very high price… Read more »

Fedaykin

No problem, we all need to be a bit more sensitive to what we are saying and how it is perceived. I have lived and worked across the EU and find the narrative that it is some form of Empire building dictatorship by some tiresome. I only have one thing more to say on this in relation to what you have just written: “One of the things that made me deeply uncomfortable about the post BREXIT vote, was the very disturbing lack of loosers consent, the very bedrock of democracy. The anti democratic moves to de-rail democracy have been highly… Read more »

Andy P

Its been an interesting and well behaved debate on this, I’ve enjoyed it so thanks to everyone for playing nicely. One thing I will say Fedaykin…. “ It was 1) A non binding advisory referendum 2) The UK is a Sovereign Parliamentary democracy meaning Parliament can vote to reverse the results of any referendum 3) Remainers and Parliamentarians who supported Remain were campaigning for another referendum, there is nothing anti democratic in that.” Whether we should have had a referendum is a moot point now but as we did it would be a ballsy call to then go against it and… Read more »

Ian

Actually- of all eligible voters in Scotland, about a third weren’t interested in the EU issue sufficiently to actually vote on it (lowest turnout of all Home Nations I believe). 2/3 of the 2/3 who bothered to vote supported ‘remain’, which means that less than half of the eligible vote was sufficiently supportive of ‘remain’ to bother casting a ballot. I don’t think the ‘don’t care as long as I can drink and watch the football’ is adequately represented in Scottish constitutional debates.

sjb1968

Naughty Nicola that is not being a good European is it.

John Clark

I heard the response to Nicola’s appeal to “leave the lights on for us” in the EU Politburo, was, who’s paying the electric bill?

Daniele Mandelli

Wouldn’t Spain veto them rejoining over Catalonia?

SubOrbital

They’ve said they won’t veto them if they left the UK in cooperation with the UK Government. If they just broke away then Spain would veto them.

Levi Goldsteinberg

Only in the case they did a unilateral declaration of independence. If Scotland was given a legal referendum and voted to leave the UK, then Spain said they won’t stand in their way of joining the EU. It’s for the birds anyway, Scotland will never get a referendum

Daniele Mandelli

Quite right too. We had one already. Had enough of them!

Fedaykin

You might, but up here in Scotland the enthusiasm for another referendum on the ‘matter’ is increasing.

Andy P

While I’m coming from 20/20 hindsight, if there was a referendum now instead of 2014 the result might be different but you can’t keep having referendums until you get the ‘right answer. I remember having the debate on a football forum that IF the UK left the EU and someone like BoJo came into power then that should be the time for the SNP to have their election. You could argue that they made an arse of it by going for it when they did. Like I said, lots of hindsight there and who’d have thought we’d have left the… Read more »

Mark B

Yes but you would need support from a large chunk of English, Welsh & Irish MPs. Can you seriously see any appetite for that?

Fedaykin

It will happen eventually, especially when support in Scotland goes over 60% for independence. This question is not going away and the longer Westminster says no the more enthusiastic people in Scotland will be for independence.

Douglas Newell

I worked with an uber-seperatist just prior to the last referendum and he reckoned over two thirds of us would vote Yes.

He was hilariously wrong back then

Mark B

Referendums cost Cameron his job. Who would want to open that can of worms again (either Labour or Conservative)? The Scottish support would need to be overwhelming surely – and the withdrawal agreement providing satisfactory attractive arrangements for defence etc. would need to be pre-approved and appealing to the British people. The Scots will need to win over the other three nations which means a complete shift in tone coming from the SNP and some pragmatic and friendly policies.

Douglas Newell

Is it? The only people I hear battering on about it are Uber Nats on social media and our now “nationalist compliant” media.

julian1

there are circumstances where it could happen, albeit 4 years. deadlock between labour and tories to form next government, labour make an alliance with SNP to form coalition or at least majority gov. SNP insist on indyref2 as part of this. it could have happened last year….4 years far more likely.

the more likely barriers are the lack of scottish national bank (barrier to EU ascension) and the huge debt scottish gov would have to take on with likely inferior credit ratings. scottish consumers would suffer.

Fedaykin

That is pretty much the scenario I envisage, the SNP will request indy2 for a Confidence and Supply agreement. Labour would then state that is contingent on constitutional reform first with an Indy ref at the end of of that Government.

Mr Bell

Scotland can have its referendum if there is a genuine ground swell towards it. In 5 years time. After Brexit implications are well known and understood. The SNP know damn well that if Brexit doesnt turn out to be a disaster and the UK economy does manage a strong bounce back post CV19 then their arguments for it will largely be eroded. The SNP are never honest with the people of Scotland. So on that basis they are the same as the Brexiteers. Promising a nirvana but reality of an independent Scotland will be a very very hard wake up… Read more »

Mark B

Surely 20-35 years at least Mr Bell. I just can’t see “referendum” and “Manifesto” getting together in the same sentence for any Westminster party likely to gain power until everyone has forgotten about Brexit can you?

Fedaykin

You do realise how absurdly ignorant of European History stating that the democratic structures of the EU that the UK actually helped create are a Politburo!

I have no particular like for Nicola Sturgeon but she is the democratically elected leader of the Scottish Government and she is reflecting the majority view of the Scottish populous which she has every right to do.

Harold

Well said. And if it occurs, I have money on an expanded SNP return in the parliament in May. If the election occurs of course taking into account Covid.

Airborne

Yaaaaaaaaaawn…..

Harold

Tired little corporal? Try loosing a little weight, exercise, eating better food and to help with the boredom which often reveals itself in yawning, put the Airfix kit and toy soldiers away and exercise your wee mind a bit more.

Airborne

Ha ha ha haaaaaaa chomp chomp chomp…..so easy, yet so amusing. Which hook should I use next?

John Clark

You are probably right Harold, the SNP has a hard core of blinkered support like “Trump’s army”, certainly enough to whip up more howls of outrage against Westminster … Like I said earlier, look how that played out in the US eventually…. The SNP are a one trick pony, people will see through it eventually, you can’t keep that level of cross border ‘it’s all their fault’ going forever you know. Still won’t make a jot of difference, no second referendum until 2040 at the earliest I should think. By which time one of two things will have happened, the… Read more »

Mark B

Nicola has increased in popularity in Scotland because recently she has been acting like a leader mainly due to Covid. People like that. Thatcher vision of an ‘EU’ politburo outside the control of states is the exact reason why it will never happen. Not that an independent Scotland would ever join the EU.

John Clark

Morning Fedaykin, a great bit of taking out of context there …..

I also mentioned the EU giving Scotland the bill for leaving the lights on …. Let’s not go loosing our sense of humour!

I’ve also previously mentioned English occupation of the Irn bru refinery, just for the record, I wasn’t being serious then either, I don’t want to get hauled in front of a clan meeting!

Airborne

Irn bru tastes like shit mate….we don’t want it…just my simple, none binary, none offensive, all inclusive, caring and ozone friendly opinion, at this time. Now if we were talking whisky………..

Trevor G

It’s quite hilarious here; both the SNP and the LibDems are condemning the Brexit agreement as betraying our local fishermen whilst at the same time campaigning for Scotland to rejoin the EU, which would mean the CFP iniquities being reimposed all over again..Shameless doesn’t cover it but the scottish media are so cowed by Holyrood that nobody dares challenge the hypocrisy.

Daniele Mandelli

Apparently the nasty Englanders are obsessed with fish and its all Boris fault. It is only 1% so why bother! ( But it was more before 1973 of course ) SNP’s Home affairs minister does not want the RN in Scottish waters ( seemingly forgetting that the RN FPS does not police Scottish fishing grounds ) Then we get a deal with concessions, which is a good thing for all considering the greater need of the wider economy, which includes 25% more fish for UK boats than previously, increasing after 5 years. An improvement. Betrayal! Shouts the media. Love it… Read more »

Andy P

Their was a spokesman for the fisherman on TV having a rant about the betrayal of fishermen just after the Brexit deal was announced. I’m maybe missing something (and this maybe isn’t the place to get the right answers) but it strikes me that 25% more fish over the next 5 years is a good starting point. Is it as simple as the fishermen are just being greedy and/or impatient or is there some ‘fine print’ at play that means they have been seen off in some way…. Its safe to say that the SNP were going to find fault,… Read more »

Fedaykin

The reason is both the SNP and Liberal Democrats regard EU membership as an overall benefit for the entire economy…also I find it hilarious the amount of Fisherman on the news at the moment expressing their regrets about voting to leave the EU…it all runs in circles!

Airborne

Well mate if the Lib Dems go along with something that is the best reason to treat it as suspect and opportunist.

Daniele Mandelli

Morning John. Oh the irony given the screams from the SNP and the usual media suspects a few weeks back on a mere contingency that the RN will be used to police waters.

Fedaykin

The Scottish Government is Pro-EU membership for Scotland but also has its hands tied by external events. They have no choice to enforce what was agreed in the ‘Deal’ when it comes to fishing and boundaries. This is one of the areas that the Scottish Government regards the ‘Deal’ to undermine devolution.

Douglas Newell

Wasn’t that long ago the SNP was calling for an in/out EU referendum, 2007 i think they passed a convention motion supporting a referendum. Only a few weeks ago they tried to take to Boris to court stop a No Deal Brexit, only to then vote for a No Deal Brexit by voting against the Deal. The SNP have continually flip flopped on Europe — their current position on it nothing more than a tool in their quest to a Separate Scotland. They’d poke their own granny in the eye to get separation. A Seperate Scotland has no chance of… Read more »

Airborne

Amusing mate isn’t it….no deal BREXIT by the Tories is the devil incarnate, we need a deal….so we will vote against the deal and want a no deal….playing politics as per usual by the SNP.

farouk

This isn’t exactly that big a story. Its been an issue between the Scottish and Irish for years. Heres a BBC news report from 2019: Rockall Q&A: Fishing dispute between Scotland and IrelandAn age-old international dispute over a small uninhabited island in the North Atlantic Ocean has flared up, and this time it’s between Scotland and Ireland. Rockall lies 260 miles (418km) west of Scotland’s Western Isles. The UK claims ownership over the outcrop and a 12-nautical-mile territorial sea around it. But the Republic of Ireland does not believe any country should own Rockall and insists the waters around it are… Read more »

Harold

This is the sort of vessel needed by the Scottish navy when it forms. Coastal patrol ships are far more relevant than unaffordable white elephants sent to the far east in a futile attempt to impress more powerful countries.

Mark

Unarmed patrol ships?

Jack

You expecting a shooting war to break out ? SMH.

Mark

No, just thinking the Trawler could have pulled an Iceland and it could do feck all.

Fedaykin

They could be armed and it is almost inevitable that they would form the core of a Scottish Naval Service in the event of independence.

Douglas Newell

Could they? What do you suggest? Would Ferguson Marine do this after they finished building the Arran Ferry?

Fedaykin

No real point speculating, it would probably be put out to tender and then something 20-30mm bolted to the foredeck.

Douglas Newell

maybe an outboard engine to help her get by her top speed of 18 knots?

Airborne

There a big difference between being armed and being a warship mate.

Darren.

Go to bed now.

Airborne

Here he is, hello Iqbal….living in a budget electrical item warehouse/distribution centre, and calling himself after an 11 Century Anglo Saxon king……you couldnt make it up.

Harold

🙂

Airborne

So easy…….

Harold

So Neanderthal – ‘ugg ugg, grunt grunt, gun gun’ – Untermensch in action.

Airborne

Like I said so easy….reeling you in is so so simple, no challenge. Please do better Iqbal , for your Alba….cough 😂

Harold

:-)))

Airborne

So easy….

farouk

This isn’t exactly that big a story. Its been an issue between the Scottish and Irish for years. Heres a BBC news report from 2019: Rockall Q&A: Fishing dispute between Scotland and Ireland An age-old international dispute over a small uninhabited island in the North Atlantic Ocean has flared up, and this time it’s between Scotland and Ireland. Rockall lies 260 miles (418km) west of Scotland’s Western Isles. The UK claims ownership over the outcrop and a 12-nautical-mile territorial sea around it. But the Republic of Ireland does not believe any country should own Rockall and insists the waters around… Read more »

Mark

Meh, it’s been running since the UK claimed it back in the 50’s, think Iceland and Norway also have claims on it.

Jack

So Varadker says that noone should claim sovereignty of Rockall but then goes on to say that all EU members should share the catch in it’s waters, excluding the UK in the process ! What a genius.

John Clark

You couldn’t make it up Jack, could you….
EU Neo Colonialism at its finest.

Mark

It’s a rock, think under UN law it can’t have waters since it can’t support life.

whlgrubber

i had the dubious honour of being winched down on Rockall to try and fix the navigation lamp, i failed as i had the wrong batteries. That was not long after that chap roped himself to the rock to claim it for the UK.

geoff

Wow-that is a memory to cherish. You must be one of only a handful of humans to have set foot on that pinnacle. I remember the RN raised the Union Jack there in the 1950’s. In order to reinforce the UK’s claim it might be necessary to construct a small structure and house some Research staff therein!

Daniele Mandelli

Mount a Phalanx CIWS on a plinth….

geoff

Howsit going Daniele! The Phalanx might be enough to establish sovereignty! 🙂

Daniele Mandelli

Wet Cold and “orrible” here geoff.

Good morning my friend.

geoff

I suppose I should not tell you then, that it mainly sunny and 26 degrees here in Durban today Daniele? Pleasant if a little muggy 🙂

Daniele Mandelli

🤔…..😁 enjoy mate.

whlgrubber

three of us took turns to be winched down, i was second. we were all ex-RN working for Marconi on an ASW trial, off RFA Fort Austen. Got some photos somewhere but it was pre mobile phone days, 1989-90 time

geoff

Wow that is a story for the grandkids-what an experience! Do you think there is enough room there for a permanent platform and could it be constructed to cope with the occasional swamping by large waves?

Captain P Wash

I remember that happening.

Bob2

Hi Mark,

I believe rocks are allowed to have a 12 mile territorial waters, but not a 200mile EEZ.

geoff

Morning Farouk. In my youth 50 years ago, Public International Law was one of my subjects for which I got a First Class pass with Merit!(says he blushing). I am sure the Law of the Sea has changed since then but it throws up some interesting questions-how is unclaimed land legally acquired? Can Rockall be considered an Island ? (the other interesting one is the “Shag Rocks” group in the South Atlantic) What are the limits to Territorial Waters? Who has ultimate jurisdiction etc?

Darren.

Good looking ship.

George Royce

Good.

The EU don’t understand, it’s not about the bloody fish. Controlling your own fishing waters is a mark of a truly independent nation. The sooner they get that through their thick skulls, the better.

Andy P

You can take away our freedum but not our halibut….

I’m sure I saw it mentioned on the (Scottish) news earlier that the Irish skipper had previous for this kind of thing, guess he’s happy to be the ‘poster boy’ and likes the controversy. Maybe Wee Jimmy will do a ‘China like’ extension on Rockall, a couple of ship loads of sand and rock to make it big enough to put a ‘government house’ on…. an airfield….

I’m sure it will all get sorted out through the courts and whatnot, one way or another.

John Clark

“You can take away our freedum but not our halibut”

That Andy made me laugh until I cried mate, absolutely hilarious, George should change the title ……🤣🤣🤣

Trevor G

The ECJ will declare Rockall to be a British colony, which will open the way to a claim from Spain…

Herodotus

Didn’t someone put a small hit on it sometime back and lived there for quite a while?

Captain P Wash

It was an ex SAS chap who lived on it, was on the news.

geoff

Morning Herodotus.

Mark

It’s one of the major fishing areas for Squid for the Irish fleet, this hull is from Killybegs so of course they are going to be going to that area fairly often.

Andy P

Mark, I’m not particularly knowledgeable on this (or anything really) but as its a lump of rock sticking out the oggin some country or another will have a flag on it. If it happens to be the UK then that’s what it is, if the UK/Scottish claim is bogus then it will be called out, its a bit of a weird one though as its not like the inhabitants can have a vote. Just my (again, unknowledgeable) opinion but I suspect a lot of this will die down. That boy who was nabbed seems to be a bit confrontational about… Read more »

Mark

Like I said it’s been disputed since the RN claimed it in the ’50’s, it’s not just Ireland that also claim it, think both Iceland and Norway also dispute the claim.

As I said, it’s a major area for Squid fishing so it’s important to the Irish fleet, an its been a long running dispute.

David Barry

Google maps have the area blurred out – is something secret is happening there, the people need to know?

Captain P Wash

China might be building an Airstrip.

Jack

Ironic when the SNP government grovels to Brussels.

geoff

Good Morning Gentlemen. Fine looking vessel is the Jura. As a matter of interest I wonder what flag she flies? I would presume it would be a variant of the Blue Ensign? This is not such a frivolous question as first appears. The First Minister has done all in her power to attach Scottish only identities to places and Institutions North of the Border and note that another article on this from an Irish Newspaper I think describes the Jura as a Scottish Navy vessel which must have pleased her no end!! Remember the Falklands invasion was preceded by the… Read more »

Captain P Wash

There are two of this class, built to do exactly what the Jura has done here they fly the SF Ensign and they were built in Scotland and Poland.

geoff

Thanks Cap’n!

Billythefish

Having worked onboard for the SFPA we were always more than happy to enforce the regulations so I am not surprised at all at this – doing the job and getting on with it despite the political nonsense from the funny farm (Holyrood)

Fedaykin

It is comments like this that drive support for Scottish independence. Holyrood is not a ‘funny farm’, it is the seat of Government for the Scottish Parliament and organisation with significant legislative power over the people of Scotland. It is also unlike the crumbling structures of Westminster with its outmoded not fit for purpose arcane procedures a modern Parliament building that uses modern procedures that are vastly more transparent to the public. Watching Holyrood go about its business is a breath of fresh air in comparison to what you see going on at Westminster which behaves more like a Victorian… Read more »

Andy P

I don’t see a huge difference between Holyrood and Westminster. Yes, there is less ‘baggage’ of historical guff but we still have the same politicians who are divided by party lines and governed by party policy rather than representing constituents. We’ve been hoodwinked into thinking we should tie ourselves to a party. Whether its Left/Right or something like nationalism we’re encouraged to buy into this stuff. For me we sell ourselves far too cheaply by buying into Party’s but I accept I’m pissing in the wind on this. Long story short, while Holyrood doesn’t have the centuries of traditional bollox… Read more »

sjb1968

I think sadly Scotland will leave the U.K. given the poisonous atmosphere north of the border. Reading some Nationalist comments regarding the proposed electoral boundary commission changes, which will see the balance of MPs increase in favour of England. There is no doubt the Scots are heading for the exit as it seems maths and equal representation is not easily understood north of the border. I do agree about the archaic Westminster bubble and our outdated politics. How many unelected Lords do we now have? However, I am hopeful that BREXIT may well in the medium term lead to change… Read more »

Fedaykin

“450 million superstate run by France and Germany.” – not true and sadly shows the ongoing woeful understanding of what the EU is and how it works by many British citizens. As for equal representation and the boundary commission, Scotland was promised in 2014 that it would be a constitutional equal with the rest of the UK. Changing the boundaries to lay even more power in Westminster is the very reverse of that promise. As for the stuff about England bankrolling Scotland, it never fails to amaze me how patronising and ignorant that view point is. We all pay tax!… Read more »

Airborne

I bet there is….

Alan Reid

Fedaykin There is no consensus in Scotland about further powers being devolved from Westminster. Westminster is the seat of Scottish governance (despite what the SNP call the Assembly in Edinburgh) and looking after reserved matters – with Holyrood assuming those responsibilities devolved to it by the UK government. There should be no rivalry between these two establishments, and indeed from 1999 – 2007 they worked harmoniously in co-operation together. I’ve long argued for devolution – but it’s disappointing to see how Holyrood has been recently transformed into a rival power base to Westminster – and now debating issues that do… Read more »

sjb1968

You are discussing this with someone who became a reluctant leaver after following the development of the EU for 30 years. So lets just say we will agree to disagree over who runs the EU but at least you did not try and pretend that it is not destined to be a superstate. Equal representation based on population per constituency is fair based on a single country namely the U.K, with its Parliament in Westminster. The 4 home nations do not come into that calculation. Personally, I would be all for a constitutional convention to review the best way for… Read more »

Fedaykin

Yes the EU is a Superstate and I see that as a good thing, 27 nations (once 28 until the end of January 2020) working together to make the EU a power block that can challenge the US and China as a political trade block. I support greater EU integration… I do agree that Blair bodged devolution but not in the same way you think, his failure was failing to do full constitutional reform, introduce a modern PR based voting system, replace the Lords with a modern upper chamber and procedurally reform Westminster. This failure led to the Constitutional imbalance… Read more »

sjb1968

I am totally with you about constitutional reform and devolution and what it has done to the U.K. I don’t believe Blair pushed through devolution to stave of independence calls. It was more like a cynical political ploy to keep Scotland in the Labour camp. They took Scotland’s loyalty for granted but his own legacy would undo this bond. It is good to see you are an honest proponent of the EU but the bit I find odd is the desire to leave one union because of a lack of representation, which in part I understand. But why then the… Read more »

Fedaykin

I think you are totally spot on in respect of Blair, Labour and their concept of what they thought devolution would do. Their mistake was after spending decades stating that Scotland was getting Tory Governments against its will, which was always frankly a rather crude argument once a Scottish Parliament was setup it wasn’t that much of a mental Rubicon for people in Scotland to translate it to represent all Westminster based Governments which the SNP milked for all it is worth. As for being a proponent of leaving one Union and joining another frankly that is complex matter that… Read more »

Andy P

“Mr Blair’s botched devolution” was the result of Scotland consistently getting a government they didn’t vote for. I even voted for the SNP in ’92 because I was heartfelt sick of what had been a pretty brutal Tory government. I totally get that it wasn’t just Scotland, there were plenty parts of England that were equally shafted but at the time (I was 24 in ’92) I was happy to use the line on the map to get away from that. I don’t see things the same now as a 50 odd year old but I can understand why others… Read more »

Alan Reid

SJB There is no “poisonous atmosphere north of the border” – some people have been ranting about separatism for years! Today they’ve just got an outlet on social media to get such views to a wider audience than their pals! And if you look closely enough, you will see just as much comment on social media in support of Scotland within the UK. Remember during Elections in Scotland, the so-called “unionist vote” is split across Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem parties. At the last UK General Election (Dec 2019), 54% of Scots who voted supported unionist parties – and 46%… Read more »

DaveyB

Worst week of my life. Applied for Adventure Training on got a sailing trip from Mallaig to Rockall and back in the Summer of 2010 after coming back from Afghan (again). Normally, I’m very good at keeping my stomach in one place, not on this trip. The skipper I think believed it would be an adventure of a lifetime. As soon as we got past Uist, it was nothing but sea, sky, sea, sky all they way there and back.

Bob2

Hi All,

Maybe one of you could explain something for me.

With fishing protection being a devolved matter for Scotland, does the Royal Navy play any role in protecting fishing rights in Scottish waters or is it only marine Scotland who get involved, leaving the RN to patrol English, welsh and NI waters.

John Hampson

Rockall is 186 miles off the UK. It is within the UK’s 200 mile EEZ.
It is 261 miles off Ireland.

Bob2

Hi John, I think the issue is that this Irish fisherman has been given rights by the Scottish government to fish within the UKs EEZ, but not its 12mile territorial waters. The UK thinks Rockall is a rock so is entitled to a territorial water area. the Irish do not recognise it as a rock as it is occasionally under water, so does not get a territorial area. it is only 17.5m above sea level, and the Rockall basin has been shown by the RN to have the highest oceanic waves in he world (highest recorded wave was at >29m).… Read more »

geoff

Interesting comments from recent posters re the Scottish question that won’t go away to the extent that I as a passionate Unionist am beginning to feel worn down by the whole affair. Between Nicola Sturgeons constant grinding and Boris Johnsons and many other English politicians ineptitude and clumsiness in handling the issue I fear we could lose the UK by default. What a sad end that would be..Oops sorry I promised to remain strictly on subject this year. Ern nice ship the Jura!

dave12

As I said before geoff polls are not reliable and the Unionist on the the Ref end of . I think Boris is trying to ignore the issue because there should be no issue.

dave12

*the Unionist WON.

John Clark

Sort of the point really Dave, I’ve heard all sorts of reasons for a second referendum, but the reality and backstop of it is really quite simple, there was a referendum and only a few years ago. The Scottish people voted to remain in the Union and by a desisive majority. The referendum was carefully organised, parameters agreed by all parties, overseen by the electoral commission and remain won. That matter decided, we voted as a Union of Nations, one person, one vote, on BREXIT, paramiters carefully agreed by both sides and the whole thing carefully monitored by the electoral… Read more »

dave12

Exactly John but your comment’s message must be hammered to all media ,I believe there is a very silent majority of unionist in Scotland .

geoff

Thank you Dave and John. I hope you are right.