The government have again confirmed that the new Fleet Solid Support Ship will see “a significant proportion” of the build and assembly work carried out in the UK.
Stephen Morgan, Shadow Defence Minister, asked via a written Parliamentary question:
“To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, what the timetable is for the Government to make a decision on where new Fleet Solid Support ships will be maintained.”
Jeremy Quin, Minister of State for the Ministry of Defence, responded:
“The Fleet Solid Support (FSS) ship competition will be launched in the spring. It is anticipated that the competition will require that the winning bidder must be a UK registered company or consortia and a significant proportion of the build and assembly work must be carried out in the UK. We will seek to deliver UK social value in recognition of the opportunities for prosperity and levelling-up that the programme presents.
No decisions have yet been taken as to how or where the FSS ships will be maintained. Such decisions will be made at an appropriate time before the ships enter service.”
We recently reported that the Fleet Solid Support ship competition is to resume in Spring.
The ‘Spring 2021’ restart date was reconfirmed this week.
Stephen Morgan, Shadow Defence Minister, asked via an earlier Parliamentary written question.
“To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, pursuant to the Answer of 30 November 2020 to Question 120779 on Fleet Solid Support Ships, what recent assessment he has made of whether that target will be met.”
Jeremy Quin, Minister of State for the Ministry of Defence, responded:
“It remains our intention to commence the Fleet Solid Support ship competition during spring 2021.”
Fore more on the programme, bidders etc I recommend heading over to NavyLookout for an in-depth look. Just click here.
GOOD!
?
What I meant was…Good
Good for the UK?
Yes…and that the build was still in the pipeline.
Harland and Wolff will invest, like theybhavein a new panel line at Belfast. The future is good.
I think so…fingers crossed.
Yes. I think Harland and Wolff with infrastrata are getting the massive fabrication ability they need for many projects. Obviously, fitting out/outfitting is a large requirement in MoD projects too.
This was previously stated last year. The phase ‘significant amount of work’ is pretty open to interpretation. I’d like to think it means the majority of the work would have to be done here, but such a vague statement leaves room to allow Navantia to take the lead with final assembly in Spain and leave H&W only providing blocks. Hope not!
It would be marvellous if the UK consortium won but will the UK industry have enough capacity to do it alone what with the frigate programs ramping up?
It’s about time Cammell Laird was given a leading role in a major project to sustain and grow English shipbuilding for a change! Perhaps they’d be better suited to taking on the new research vessels announced last year given the experience gained with RRS David Attenborough. They could still produce blocks for FSS in the meantime though!
As these are now being classed as warships the construction/assembly would need to be in the UK. Blocks could be made elsewhere .
That said I wouldn’t want to make blocks in Spain and tow them to the UK for assembly it wouldn’t be cost effective or very practicable.
Look up how the Canberra class LHDs were constructed. They were built up to the flight deck by Navantia in Spain then transported by heavy lift ship to Australia for completion by BAE. Maybe a similar system could be used here? Basic hull built by combining blocks in Spain then moved to H&W at some point for completion, with some blocks built in the UK. I think it is a possibility.
H&W haven’t built anything floating for a very very long time. And even then look how well that worked out……
Asking them to fabricate precision build blocks would be a disaster.
Asking them to fit out a big hull would be even worse.
The skilled workforce to do either doesn’t exist. Learning on the job is possible but a deverstatingly inefficient way of doing things both in terms of speed/cost and QA.
The only advantage of using NI is that it is still, effectively, in the EU. So collaboration with a EU shipyard would be easier.
What we really need a is a proper state of the art block fabrication facility close to an assembly yard(s) like the Australians have done – preferably somewhere big enough that you can have multiple final assembly sheds for different projects. Then lease it to the project main contractor.
OK that means everything in one place and as we have been busy turning all our historical port areas into ‘vibrant bars/cafes/flats’ we probably don’t have the footprint anywhere to do it?
CL have at least done something recently…..
Plenty spare capacity at Rosyth and its not like the T31’s are taking up the drydocks. Just sayin’…..
Nothing should go North of the border…
Behave yourself
Indeed, H&W Belfast doesn’t have a panel line. Realistically they possibly get back to assembly but would need significant institutional help from Navantia. I see a build in Belfast using blocks built by Navantia and the InfraStrata yard H&W Appledore.
The wording of this announcement allows the wiggle room to work in that way.
Agreed.
Block assembly is all very well but you need a lot of people who can weld to Mil spec – not easy to find those bods to do the difficult bits.
It take years to learn to weld and to learn to spot a dud weld or know when to call for other eyes as something is not quite right.
For final assembly they would need to do what BAE Systems have been doing on the Clyde and Babcock (+the Carrier Alliance) in Rosyth bring in people to do the complex welding.
Build at Belfast would be a severe risk for the programme however politically attractive it would be, I just don’t see how they could deliver the contract without blocks being built by Navantia.
Built in Belfast is a terrible idea as they have no recent history of doing that.
It will be a program nightmare and a quality disaster.
Particularly with getting anything from the mainland……TVM Boris for the unnecessary internal border foisted by the EU on the bollocks of the AIA. That was terrible negotiating.
Not the EU’s fault, they are just trying to protect the integrity of the single market and the Good Friday Agreement as well as represent the interests of a member state The Republic of Ireland. If the UK had remained in the Single Market as promised by the Leave campaign in 2016 this wouldn’t’ have been a problem.
Technically all very correct but please spare us all the EU was just trying to protect the GFA, the single market and represent ROI interests when within a month they unilaterally decided to in effect close the border. They may have backtracked but little old Ireland has been used a bargaining chip in a much bigger game. BREXIT and its legacy has not been either the U.K’s or EU’s finest hour.
As for ships sadly I don’t think this is the right project to resurrect shipbuilding Belfast.
No I won’t spare you that because that is the reality of the situation. The UK is now a third country and the EU will protect its own interests and that of a member state….FACT end of story get used to it! My position on Brexit on this site has been covered already, I hate it, I regard as a gross assault on my rights, the arbitrary loss of my EU citizenship plus FoM fills me with an utter fury that has not faded with time and I am not afraid to state that. The EU is trying to make the best of a bad situation whilst the UK is trying to force it to deliver the Unicorns that the leave campaign promised.
You are obviously angry about the U.K. leaving the EU but my point was the EU have nonetheless exploited the Irish border question as much as hardened BREXIT supporters ignored it. The fact is the EU couldn’t give a damm about Ireland as proven by its knee jerk reaction to the vaccine debacle.
The Irish Taoiseach was not even consulted!
“EU have nonetheless exploited the Irish border question as much as hardened BREXIT supporters ignored it. The fact is the EU couldn’t give a damm about Ireland as proven by its knee jerk reaction to the vaccine debacle.”
Utter nonsense not even worth a detailed reply.
Yet you still did EU fighting over a vaccine that is embarrassing. Happy to support a democratic power that you have not voted for. Personal reasons only
I thought you were more grown up than that but your bitterness is clouding your judgement on this issue.
My judgement is not clouded and I have made my position clear as is my right, I can’t help it if you don’t like it. The problems in Northern Ireland are because of Brexit…pure and simple. The EU is making the best of a difficult situation and defending the interests of a member state. I am bitter because my rights have been taken away and a fundamental part of my identity as well…my EU citizenship. I am not afraid to state that loudly and clearly!
The point I was making was more nuanced but you just don’t seem to accept that some people who have not got a totally polarised view of the BREXIT fiasco can see that border issue has been used by some in EU as a tool in those painful negotiations.
That mask momentarily slipped with the EU announcement regarding the border, they knew it and backtracked. Even pro EU supporters were taken by surprise and it reenergised hard line BREXIT supporters but most importantly it allowed the U.K. Government off the hook because they negotiated a bad deal.
On your broader point it is only fair to ask we’re U.K. citizens ever specifically asked if they wanted to become EU citizens. We both know the answer and that reflects on how broken our democracy has become and I see neither party committed to changing that. I leave in hope we may see change.
Democratic vote. Cannot fight it But if Cameron hadn’t done such a piss poor job of defending it. But do wonder how many voted to leave just to spike the government because they are anti tory
Your identity is now exposed even more so in your comments.
You lost me, what identity would that be?
Why not?
eu have never protected the good Friday agreement. They are using it for their own interest, don’t be so gullible.
I do.
Mostly by panel lines in which H&W is investing in. You are talking about front line warships like Destroyers and Frigates, these warships are different.
Then I’m very happy that they are investing in those kind of items.
But my question is still where do they find the skilled and experienced workforce from?
These things required highly skilled and knowledgable operators and QA teams.
If you start getting a long term strategy which looks like this government is giving. Business which needs certainty, will invest in those needed skills, technology and facilities.
Wrong
What is wrong?
This vile eu empire are explioting the Irish border. People need to get over our Country and her people wanting independence from this empire.
Riiiighhht…
1) The EU is not an Empire and anybody who does think that is a foaming at the mouth Brexit-loon Gammon, it is a political Union and all members have to petition to join it
2) It is the British Empire that partitioned Ireland in the first place introducing a land border where there wasn’t against the will of the majority of people on Ireland in favour of a minority population
3) Million of of people in the UK myself included were proud to be citizens of the EU and resent being arbitrarily stripped of our EU citizenship against our will, so calling the EU a vile empire is hardly conducive to healing and also why as referenced above I call Brexit supporters foaming at the mouth Brexit-loon Gammon…
Clear about that now?
I made a resonable response and answer. I could not have wished better for a reply like this.
You think calling the EU a ‘Vile Empire’ is a reasonable response…wow you are special!
No bore off!
Ok, a bordering on total vile empire? It’s what many people correctly see it as, becuase it is just that. I veiwed it as this in the early nineties (eec ec what ever) as a kid and I have no different feeling or fact to it.
Nooooo … just no. The EU is not that and as I have already stated millions like myself were proud to be a citizen of it. I am not interested in debating this. Now again … bore off you tiresome man…
It is just that and note who is getting personal here. I am just stating facts to your good self.
You made this personal when you responded in a manner that would get a rise out of someone who is clearly pro EU. You can’t have your own personal ‘facts’ you have not stated anything that is remotely true in your responses to me. The EU is not an Empire, calling it vile is just petty hyperbole. You are a childish bully nothing more and nothing less.
I made this personal? So when everyone speaks about the break up of our Country, I should take this as personal too? No, I take it as the right to speak out about our Country and why they want it to break up, I don’t take it a s personal even if they become personal like you have to me. I am a childish bully? I think you need to look at the vaccine roll out and this disgusting eu empire’s actions and see who is the bully, that is Just one of many examples. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ralocq9uE I would say there is a will with this empire too. You cannot pool sovereignty. You cannot be a bit pregnant.
F off you loony! I am not interested in debating this!
O dear.
Oh no did I hurt your your precious fee–fees?!
I can do better than that, I look forward to Scottish independence and Irish Unification if it causes upset to ghastly people like you!
I do care for groups who act like this. Here are some links that may help: https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/learning-disability-support/ also: https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/your-mental-health/getting-help and: https://www.mentalhelp.net/intellectual-disabilities/additional-support-for-people-with-and-their-families/ . There is help out there. It’s not just me, we all care.
Like I say. You are just getting personal and with no coherent thought or answers. Think about what you have said, yet what I have said about an empire that is not a real friend and did us no favours when we were in it and ruled by it.
You are the one who made it personal with your incoherent rant about Evil Empires you cretin! Don’t pretend to take some moral high ground, everything you typed do far is utter drivel….
Enjoy Irish unification
If people want to break up a great Country, if that is their wish, then it will happen even though it would be a tragedy caused. We could go further and I would say why not the North of England too, from the Severn to Wash border north and if they want to, unite with Scotland so be it.I would say London could be separate, the West Country too, from the eastern extremities of Hampshire West Sussex border (West Sussex is firmly in the South East) right up to the Forest of Dean and to Cornwall (that is if Cornwall does not want to be separate too). Plus different parts of Wales itself may want to break up along with parts of Scotland too or stay with what ever is left of the UK. I never said anything about evil empires, only a vile and disgusting empire which is what this eu is. The past few months with actions by eu have shown what it is really all about from the Irish border to the vaccine war they have created along with trashing a vaccine that was made to help people around the World.
“I never said anything about evil empires, only a vile and disgusting empire which is what this eu is.”
An absurd distinction and again offensive and wrong…the EU is a not an Empire in any form. It is economic and political Union with a modern Parliament using a modern PR based voting system. The UK on the other hand was an Empire, has an unelected Head of State, an Unelected Upper chamber and an arcane not fit for purpose FPTP voting system
You want to be treated with respect but keep on insisting on doubling down on statements that cause offence to others. I think the break up of the Union is inevitable based upon the contradictions that Brexit introduced.
Deal with it
Yes. The UK does have to change and reform things in terms of our voting system, along with the upper house which has now shown to be completely unfit for purpose as it is rancid pro arm of eu. If something does not work, you have to find an answer to correct it and a solution for the answer, the same with politics.
This empire came about from a common market in which the UK did not have a first vote on, only after. The UK will only be subjugated to foreign oppression through losing a war or the UK populace voting in favour of foreign rule which did not happen and after, they were lied too when already in it.
When this common market came about, nothing was said about a political and economic union, if it was, it was hidden from Britons and not made obvious. The trade ruse was the best way around the real fact of what despotic eu’ers really want, a political and economic union, an empire by the back door.
Anyone in favour of eu is just a provincial. I don’t consider Southern Ireland of any more than, but just a province. That’s what they wanted and before had their vote totally disrespected by eu. Southern Ireland sadly, is just a pawn and totally answerable to this eu empire. As we have seen, Southern Ireland does this eu’s work when it’s prime minister or other politicians speak out which is very sad. Southern Ireland to me looks to be just a county or region of eu, which it should not be, it is far more than that, but this is the reality.
The unelected head of state and upper chamber is our own doing. If bad politics is caused by ourselves, it is caused by ourselves, not by others!
I don’t see any offensive or wrong in what I have stated. The only thing offensive, is this eu. This eu parliament has no power, it’s all in the hands of the commission presidents are elected by secret ballots or appointments. What contradictions has BREXIT created?
I dont need respect, I am thick skinned, do not assume. I leave the personal stuff to others and their rants.
I love Europe and think France is one of the most beautiful Country’s on Earth and the people are decent inventive people. The same goes for the rest of the European Countries that are in or not in this empire.
Utter paranoid nonsense with no connection to reality!
OK.
OK. God help us.
From your paranoid nonsense…
Ok. I don’t normally entertain stuff like this for as long as this from groups like you, but you are one nutter. Mental health is serious though, I hope you find help. You really do need help.
Accusing others of mental health issues because they don’t share your opinions is the lowest of the low when it comes to online behaviour!
You are truly a pathetic man disconnected from basic reality, a bully and a troll unable to back down when challenged.
You disgust me!
Well. I say this, because you have no come back in rational debate, you just rant rubbish. You are upset, I get that. The reality is that I am connected to the the real World, but you are unhinged. It’s quite obvious.
I am just helping you. The reality is what I am speaking to you. You give no explanation in any debate. If you want to troll like this, carry on. I may disgust you, but you only, I am guessing you maybe scum as you come across as this.
Harland and Wolff are investing in new panel lines. Northern Ireland is a very important part of our Country, just like all the other parts.
Accusing others of mental health issues because they don’t share your opinions is the lowest of the low when it comes to online behaviour!
You are truly a pathetic man disconnected from basic reality, a bully and a troll unable to back down when challenged.
You disgust me!
I did not see this, but will reply. I will not back down to nonsense, but you undernmine yourself when you speak like this and no, you are not scum, so I apologize for that. I am not calling you pathetic and getting personal. Why do this? Many comments from you I agree with, so why be daft. Your comments on this though do come across as un-hinged. Don’t do it.
Accusing others of mental health issues because they don’t share your opinions is the lowest of the low when it comes to online behaviour!
You are truly a pathetic man disconnected from basic reality, a bully and a troll unable to back down when challenged.
You disgust me!
You have an issue, I did not realize. I am so sorry. I know you made remarks to me, but I do not care. I was addressing the problem which is eu and how wrong it is.
Accusing others of mental health issues because they don’t share your opinions is the lowest of the low when it comes to online behaviour!
You are truly a pathetic man disconnected from basic reality, a bully and a troll unable to back down when challenged.
You disgust me!
I do not back down to nonsense. I have tried to placate you, but you repeat something you have read to comfort yourself. Don’t waste my time in a reply, I get what you say.
Accusing others of mental health issues because they don’t share your opinions is the lowest of the low when it comes to online behaviour!
You are truly a pathetic man disconnected from basic reality, a bully and a troll unable to back down when challenged.
You disgust me!
Dear oh dear.
You truly are pathetic!
You truly have no answer.
To your pathetic nonsense…cry me a river!
OK. You are constantly personal. When people act like you do, it means they have no answer. I will be personal to you now though and say this. Get yourself a girlfriend.
As if you have a girlfriend you pathetic loony!
You made it personal with your paranoid lies about the EU, calling me ‘scum’ and trebly so when you questioned my mental health… the normal tactics of a troll! You complain about me making it personal…f off you hypocrite!
You have nothing sensible to add to the debate, to circle back to what triggered you in the first place…H&W don’t have a panel line … they have a few machines that have been installed recently. They are high risk for the stores ship contract and will need major help from Navantia to even have a hope bidding on the contract…get over it!
It doesn’t have to be Navantia, that’s the thing. Their (H&W) investment will be ongoing with some sort of certainty as they are now part of a very large fabrication firm. I feel you have to get over many things. Navantia can add some imput with tech support and nothing else, but we built ships like these not so lone ago, and super carriers without any history for a very long time. Get over that one.
Now let me make this clear Darren, this is OVER! Any further response you make however petty or trolling will be ignored! Do not regard this as some kind if pyric victory, I have utterly no further interest wasting my time with a pathetic petty little troll who stoops to gaslighting to get his own way. Any attempts to engage with me on this or any other thread on this website will also be ignored and immediately flagged!
And you have not wasted my time with your personal attacks. I don’t look at any of this as a victory but what is correct and not correct. As with my space in replying to you, I do not have much time unlike yourself. Get a girldfriend and get help. I’ll flag you matey. No one likes an empire especially this eu thing as recent history is showing right now.
I am not saying it is what they should do but what they may do. H&W is indeed a big risk but politically attractive. If Navantia are taking the lead, which is probably going to be the case, then H&W will be involved in some way.
Personally I would prefer Cammell Laird to be taking the lead but that looks unlikely. Assembling these in Belfast looks about as sensible as building Hillman Imps at Linwood but there you have it, sometimes things happen for the worst of reasons.
That would be an option but I doubt they would go for it. My best guess is assembly of blocks in a UK yard with the blocks coming in from other areas.
Where and how?
And Australia got just one fifth of the Contract.
The flight deck means the whole hull by the way.
I imagine the Navantia bid is attractive as it enables a lot of technical support frem a major yard to re-create capacity in Belfast. Also the IP for the design is British, but will need a seasoned builder to take from the drawing board. I’m not against it. I think a bid that gets H&W back in the game with some FDI from Navantia in Belfast complements other work. We have a good order book for the RN coming and need to ensure this translates into a wider shipbulding base in UK.
Every ship built is the product of International design and component collaboration.
Every Ship built with as much national input from design and real material goes back to that Country that funded and built it.
By volume or by value?
Exactly what I was thinking, like the ‘60% by value’ rule for Swiss made watches. Very vague and easily manipulated by the manufacturers who act only in their own interests.
I also think we get over obsessed with low value work in the UK, manufacturer and installation of the complex systems create better jobs these tend to make up the largest cost of the build. These are also the things that other countries cannot do so easily.
Such as for these ships? Because much of the value for Type 26s come from abroad, more than will do for the FSSS. So tell me.
What is low value? Can Percieved low value lead to high value? Is High value, over valued?
Hopefully the aren’t built in Scotland. Would make more sense to get them from the Koreans then do that.
Why?
Because there is no benefit to the UK of building the things in a hostile country which doesnt have a rule of law. ?
The Alex and Nicola show is embarrasing to the whole wider Country and watching it is squirmy stuff.
I am very grateful for the governments decision to build British taxpayer funded ships in the U.K. This would be the perfect opportunity to build up, modernize and improve England’s shipbuilding yards and give us our fair share of shipbuilding, we do after all make up the vast majority of the population of the U.K. and pay the vast majority of the cost of these ships.
Cammell Lairds on the river Mersey should be one, and also, as a Tynesider, I would love to see shipbuilding brought back to the river Tyne, England’s most famous shipbuilding river. A & P Tyne would be perfect having built blocks for R.R.S. Sir David Attenborough, Astute submarines and Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers.
We have lost Swan Hunters, Parsons and Vickers on Tyneside in recent years, we also have mainly single carriageway A1 between Newcastle and Edinburgh. Levelling up isn’t just about Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
So over he years what orders have gone overseas? Out of £10s of billions for carriers subs and frigates only 1 order to date has gone overseas and that was less than £1b. As I recall no British yard even tendered for the order that went overseas. I would suggest a read of Sir John Parkers report, he makes it clear that yards who rely on government order are less efficient than those who compete for commercial orders. The way forward for UK ship building is not reliance on UK government orders but using those order to invest and become efficient then win commercial contracts but its already getting 98% of all UK orders and hasn’t done that to date.
Stephen is requesting England gets its fair share not the U.K. as whole and he has a fair point.
The Sir John Parker’s report makes very valid observations and recommendations but the key one is a drumbeat of orders so U.K. yards can invest to become more competitive in the commercial market. Sadly Government’s of the last 20 years have presided both in a reduction in overall orders but these have suffered massive delays and reductions, which prevents steady and continual investment.
In that same period our Government’s ideological reluctance to subsidise yards as many others do and our entanglement with EU rules has led to the near destruction of what should be a healthy U.K. industry. I would add those EU rules were sometimes used as a tool to support our own Politicians ‘we can’t do anything to interfere in the market’ agenda. I hope this ideology has at last been rightly binned.
They had no chane too tender and that order was so expensive and no good value to the UK taxpayer as it was over one billion pounds for tankers. The Uk could have built them far cheaper. It is a huge scandal.
I’d obviously like to see the FSS built here, in particular English shipbuilders. With the SNP behaving the way they are at the moment, I don’t think it’s right to offer any Scottish shipbuilders a chance at getting the contract.
You could have the main work done here with help from contractors in Ulster and Wales. This might sound petty but it might make the poisoned dwarf change her attitude.
If we want to retain the Union we need to build ships in Scotland and NI.
Just to point out that one of the things said about Scotland leaving the Union is the belief that rump British warships would still be made in Scotland – building up English (or Irish) shipbuilding would send a message on that!
BAE is no a Scottish builder.
What happens as per Tide Class and no UK yard bids. We’re or are the Tides such a disaster. No BAEs supaglued bolt heads and delays and overpriced options added. Built to spec and price could maybe get 4 instead of 3
Hugley expensive with faults from Korea. The UK and her people lost in so many ways!
No UK YARDS BID, TIDE classed delivered on budget, but no supa glue so disagree, UK faults from Korea, we have 2 new carriers with a major design flaw, so nothing new. England was very happy as it keeps the SNP on her toes
What is the major design flaw with the Carriers, please tell me. What these important major flaws?
No. UK yards were invited, they were not welcome into this tender, the press knew years before hand and I think it was Peter Luff who said that they got away with it, so took the likes of you and others of the UK public for mugs again. The Tides were delivered late with loads of faults and over 110 million pounds more (550 Million Pounds) without tax clawback (which make that bit over 900 million Pounds gross then the protected UK works of 90 million Pounds Net) just for the shipbuild bit. They are by far the most expensive tankers bought by the UK MoD in history. Not interested in the England snp crap, I’m talking about the UK here, not individual states of this Country and super glue jibes.
Cannot find the comment, but someone saud about leaving what the UK is going at doing. So that will mean shipbuilding too.Check at al prices and costs fro ships in the past thirty years. Trust me, we are good at it, and better than most people think and assume.
one answer FERGUSON MARINE. wouldnt trust to build a canoe.
New type of ferry with constant changes led to that. It caused Swan Hunters downfall even though the end cost was considered fair by the NAO.
Poorly written.
Cannot find the comment, but someone said about doing the things that the UK is good at. So that will mean shipbuilding too.Check at prices and costs from ships built in the past thirty years. Trust me, we are good at it, and better than most people think and assume.