British transport aircraft are now in their third day of delivering “thousands” of anti-tank weapons to Ukraine in the face of a massive build-up of Russian troops.
Minister James Heappey told Times Radio that the Ministry of Defence has given “thousands” of anti-armour weapons to Ukraine. According to a statement given by the Defence Secretary in the House of Commons today, the 17th of January 2022.
“We have taken the decision to supply Ukraine with light, anti-armour, defensive weapon systems. A small number of UK personnel will also provide early-stage training for a short period of time, within the framework of Operation ORBITAL, before then returning to the United Kingdom. This security assistance package complements the training and capabilities that Ukraine already has, and those that are also being provided by the UK and other Allies in Europe and the United States. Ukraine has every right to defend its borders, and this new package of aid further enhances its ability to do so.“
You can read the full statement here.
I was on the ground at RAF Brize Norton and photgraphed the arrival of vehicles carrying explosives to the base which were later loaded onto a C-17. An image of the arrival is shown below.
The flights started on the 17th of January, with Royal Air Force C-17 aircraft departing RAF Brize Norton for Kiev multiple times per day, today is the third consecutive day of deliveries.
This is a screenshot of flight tracking software showing two British C-17s in flight at various part of their journeys to and from Ukraine.
Video from Ukraine even shows the aircraft being unloaded.
RAF C-17s arrive in Kyiv with ATGMs pic.twitter.com/JEz1rA9C89
— OSINTtechnical (@Osinttechnical) January 18, 2022
What weapons are being sent?
Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon, or NLAW for short. The Next Generation Light Anti-Tank Weapon (NLAW) is described by its makers Saab in the following way:
“The Bofors NLAW (Next Generation Light Anti-tank Weapon) is the first ever single soldier missile system that rapidly knocks out any Main Battle Tank in just one shot by striking it from above.”
You can read more about the system from respected defence commentator ‘Think Defence’ by clicking here.
Here’s a video of the system in action.
Soldiers from D (Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire) Company, The Poachers have been spending the last couple of weeks preparing for operations and firing the NLAW anti tank missile.
What have you been doing?
Join The Royal Anglian Regiment now!#RoyalAnglianRegiment #armyconfidence pic.twitter.com/umNA0RsG0j
— Royal Anglian Regiment (@RAnglians) November 20, 2020
I’m just impressed we actually have stuff to give away, I’d love a look around these storage facilities are whats hiding in them
I was going to say the same myself 🤣 we must be running low. I wonder if we still have Milan ATGMs for a rainy day. I’m sure they could take out an APC.
I take it we don’t publish our stock piles of NLAW, Starstreak, Javelin, 81mm mortars, Grenades and ammunition etc.
I mean, we won’t need them in the short term and can easily get more if long term we did.
At least they are being put to good use. Most would likely have wasted away in storage anyway.
What about supplying some surplus Rapiers?
Silly question, but why are we telling the Russians exactly what we’re sending? Sending ATMs is great and good on the UK but I’d also be worried about their artillery and attack helicopters and tanks. The two former will need to be effectively tackled.
This is more of a deterence move than a realistic hope of defending Ukraine. Russia has a massive air and artillery advantage over Ukraine and so they will pound defensive lines well before anything gets into range of these short range missiles.
I guess the hope is that by publically letting Russia know that it will be harder than they expected, might give them second thoughts.
The real question is what has the US given them.
Stingers on the way from Lithuania
The Russian bear must be worried that a full invasion may not be a quick affair. This sort of publicity will heighten his doubts and raise the potential losses for him, on the other hand perhaps other hardware is already en route.
Hope that was our stockpile of PIATs circur 1944 issue
You beat me to it!
I just Sprung into action couldn’t resist it
Global UK in action, exerting its influence for peace with freedom. On the one hand sending defensive weapons like NLAW but also inviting Lavrov to London for talks. Talks with the US have brought no result; Germany is no use. The EU is no use. Kudos to Ben Wallace. 👏👏
Good Grief! Wallace is grandstanding. That’s his MO. The UK is a minor player in all of this and sending some antitank weapons to Ukraine won’t deter Putin if he decides to invade. Why would Lavrov talk with Wallace? Wallace has no power. The players here are the US, NATO, and Germany. Calculations by the Russians would most certainly come to the conclusion that the UK cannot affect the situation. It’s all fine to root for the home team but don’t get carried away and let’s deal with reality.
The UK defence budget is the same as the Russian defence budget.
We should be looking to learn something from them then. Sure, not all is ideal with their forces, far from it. But they seem to have a hell of a lot more to show for their spending.
can’t really compare based on budgets, since a lot of other things come into play, like relative pay of soldiers etc.
A lot of old outdated stuff, the UK prefers quality not quantity.
Yes but they don’t have the incompetent UK defence procurement set up.
The Budgets might be the same but the forces certainly aren’t. The British have 80 tanks the Russians 15,000, the British have around 100 front line fighter Jets,the Russians over 4000, the British have only a tiny fraction of artillery,no S400,500 missiles,no hypersonic missiles,a few thousand troops, 12 navy jets, almost no troops ect…In short,the British force is tiny and would be swatted by Russia like a fly. The fact they are supplying a few anti tank missiles is nothing but propaganda to show they are supporting Nato’s aggressive expansion east to Russia’s doorstep.
Please.
Russia has 2500 modern tanks of which half are facing china
The russian airforce has approx 450 su27 series ac. In both cases what is the real availability? Also note – zero 5th gen ac operational
The UK operates through ALLIANCES. Now this is a difficult concept to grasp for some. For example our close partner Poland operate 900 frontline tanks (and soon F35s). Andthey border Ukraine.
I wouldn’t underestimate poor little insignificant Britain
Glad you replied in a little depth as I couldn’t be bothered to try to educate the uneducated!
Oh dear, military knowledge and subject matter experience not your forte it seems.
This doesn’t deserve a reply but sigh….
There is no aggressive NATO expansion. Merely democratic nations joining a defensive alliance because of an existential threat from Russia.
Anyone who believes otherwise is either a liar or stupid. Your call
Britain would not plan to go to war with Russia without being part of some massive NATO effort.
Graham,
We have a declared 227 CR2 tanks out of 408 purchased. Where do you get the figure of 80 from?
Do you think Britain’s forces are going toe-to-toe with the Russians on our own??
I wouldn’t desribe NATO’s expansion eastwards to be aggressive, but it certainly rattles the Russkis.
Russia has indicated from its actions at the 3 meetings held last week that it is only interested in talking with the Boss, the US, not the underlings NATO. The UK is Russia’s eyes is just a poodle of the US and a badly defended one, against Russian weapons, at that. As to Global UK in action, that’s a farce if applied to the military.
You’re talking rubbish, show me the Russian carrier strike group?..
Why would they need one? As far as I know they have no plans to attack some second or third world country. Anyway, they are not much use now against a proper foe armed with decent AShM.
You stated Global UK was a farce militarily, but as one of only 2 nations on the planet that can deploy a 5th gen CSG I disagree somewhat.
The French might dispute that. Also it is a valid viewpoint that having a CSG is a bit of a millstone.
Which 5th gen aircraft are the French currently fielding as part of their CSG?…
Sorry I didn’t link the aircraft. They might argue that their carrier plus their aircraft would be an equal to ours.
Suggest you do your homework re Charles de Gaulle v Queen Elizabeth at least…then overlay the air group comparison…and top it off with with a comparative study of ship compliment/ group make up re: CSG 21 and the French CSG.
You didn’t think of aircraft when discussing carrier capabilities? That’s like comparing battleships but forgetting their guns 😆
Disagree as the French CDG was at certain times the only option for France to carry out offensive ops against IS from a sovereign location, without requiring overfly permission etc. And the CDG does not operate 5th Gen assets.
OK guys I probably got the comparison wrong, sorry.
CSG is a millstone?? – more like an incredible strategic asset, globally deployable.
A proper foe? What would that be?
One of the increasing number of countries that have realised the potential of long range AShM both shore and air launched.
Not quite that simple, as war is about evolution. Mitigation’s, TTPs and new and ongoing tech will have a solution both hard and soft kill defence, moving to a more kinetic reaction, until the next new “evolution” comes along. Military capability is about a balanced capability, and no country in the world, apart from the US at this moment, has that full spectrum.
You are correct but only the US and its allies have a need for full spectrum, most of the rest, including Russia, only have a need for the defensive part.
Russia purely defensive? Your posts up to know have been reasonable and thought out, but including Russia in a defensive postured force only, unfortunately lets you down somewhat and maybe defines your politics.
That is not what I meant to say. Clearly many military assets can be used as offensive and defensive but very large amount of Russia’s military budget has gone into systems that are primarily defensive, especially their multi layer IADS with its SAMs and aircraft as well as their nuclear deterrent.
Russian doctrine has always been about multi layered SAM and Arty. It’s part and parcel of the old Soviet doctrine, even when the “defensive” Soviet’s parked dozens of Rifle Divisions in Europe facing West. Situation, no change, it says nothing about any overt defensive policy on the side of Putin!
So you’re pushing a Russian defensive only agenda?…there lies your true colour my friend. Do you think us all that stupid?..
Of course not, to both questions. My ‘colour’ is to present a view that others here might not agree with but is valid. Some of those views may be uncomfortable but that is the way of the World.
Lol, a post that basically admits what we’ve all suspected…👍
Thanks, I’ve had enough, off to bed.
Yes sorry forgot you’re a few hours ahead of the UK (if not geographically, very much politically) Night night.
Hilarious rather than uncomfortable 🤷🏻♂️
How was invading Georgia or Ukraine defensive?…
Too busy invading first-world countries… 🤷🏻♂️
But they are about to attack a democratic European country
That is not what they are saying in Kiev, they say that the current situation is similar to last April.
That John is just not true. The U.K. is as it has always been a great big European leveller. If you have significant Northern European ports and your trade or warships need to transit Northern European waters you simply have to always consider the U.K. view point as we do have a navy and airforce able deny access to the Atlantic if he UK got it in into head. You then also need to consider our other overseas assets which are in most cases significant geopolitical pieces and a nightmare to any other nation that engages in international trade. The… Read more »
Thank you for your considered response and as a Brit I know exactly where you are coming from historically. The problem as I see it is whilst we are still a top European power we are trying to behave as if we are a top World power which we no longer are. Just look at our shrinking MoD budget as an example. Even as a top European power or strength is one sided, offence. If attacked we are effectively helpless, our only response would be to call on everyone else for help and pray that we were covered… Read more »
Number of facts wrong John, budget increasing in real terms but not spent effectively, maritime movement will be just as important and more so in the future and the long oft repeated story we need US approval to use Trident. Also war is changing yes, but that’s moreover about individual countries inability to carry out effective and prolonged war independently and therefore all countries need and utilise Allies.
Were our buget spent well, yes it would be different. Got the deterrent wrong, I now know better. Our views clearly differ on the other points. I’ll leave it at that.
Agreed but the deterrent view is a very contentious one with people having different views and interpretation of its sovereignty. And it will always be so methinks.
Hi john I very much agree on the comment around defence, I do think the U.K. has underestimated the risk around a European conflict or a conflict in which traditions alliances are less likely to be supportive of So I do think the U.K. needs to very much look at its own ability to defend its areas of responsibility and influence. That does mean looking at areas of weakness. Which I think you can see happening. Better ground based air defence capability, the ability to disperse aircraft more frigates for the RN ect. Because of our geography a lot of… Read more »
More good analysis. Thanks.
You talk absolute tosh, ….and I love it (free evenings entertainment)…the truth is totally contrary to your agenda. The one thing the global pandemic has shown is the ‘Total’ reliance on the global free movement of maritime trade and goods hence a renewed importance with regards sea power and freedom of navigation. Total opposite of what you’re selling. The more you post the more you don’t make sense 👍
On your point about sea power I would argue that the sea is now even more strategically important, there is no nation on Earth ( or continent even) that has the required access to all the natural resources to run a 21centery manufacturing economy. China, Europe, America and Russia all need raw materials that are scattered across the globe. Chinese whole strategic goal ( the replacement of an American led liberal democracy hedgmony with A Chinese led hedgmony) is dependent on a Mercantile strategy than needs A web of interdependence things to succeed, remove any one and its strategy will… Read more »
Then why is China obsessed with securing seaports around the globe and rapidly expanding its navy?…
John wrote:
“”, or in a final resort to plead with the US to be allowed to use ‘our’ Tridents.””
That is misinformation pushed out by the left of the political centre. The UK Nuclear deterent is a totally UK call.
Realistically, we have zero influence over Russia. The only way to influence them is talking trade, and we wouldn’t remove our sanctions on them without the US first giving us the nod. That gives Germany more influence as they already have trade with Russia that they could cut.
Russia isn’t scared of the US military as it knows they won’t get involved and same goes for ours.
Well ‘Global Britain’ currently has a RN vessel en route to deliver aid to Tonga, thanks to our new permanent presence in the Pacific.
As for talks, Russia wants to talk to the US rather than NATO because it uses every opportunity to try and drive a wedge between the US and other member nations.
Care to explain what makes Germany a player?
Wealth, population and industrial base. they aways talk with a big voice in geopolitics. Normally the state of The Germam armed force And the nations lack of willingness to support armed conflict would lessen that voice (Consider the French third republic and how that went). But this does not matter one iota in The case of Germany, NATO and being surrounded by friends means the actual state of its armed forces is meaningless to its geopolitical power, it’s simply can ignore military power and it can with impunity throw around that very significant Wealth and economic power with its full… Read more »
Ah the “We’ll just turn off the Russian gas ourselves” play.
Reminds me of when they were saying we’d use our economic weight, and threaten to stop buying German cars, to get whatever Brexit deal we wanted.
Yes well the less said about Germany making itself depended on cheap gas imports the better. But it’s no more stupid than us inviting china to build a nuclear power station or our 5G infrastructure ( thank god we saw sence). The west has been generally very foolish about both China and For Germany Russia. You don’t feed you strategic likely enemies money and influence and you do not destroy your own industries because they make stuff cheaper. The west dropped the ball big time from the 90s onwards, all the end of history, the world will become liberal democracy… Read more »
IMO Germany is more a supplicant than a player. They have spent the last years supporting Russia’s building up of its armed forces, whilst undermining Ukraine. Plus they have tied their future energy supply to Putin’s apron strings with no plan B, whilst closing down both their nuclear and coal-powered alternatives. They have not even built the LNG terminals to get gas supplies other than from Russia. To begin to remedy that will take 10 years or more. Until then their strategic autonomy from Moscow is limited. It’s not a pleasant thing to write, but that is how I see… Read more »
Most accurate post out of some of the rubbish listed above 👍
Germany stopped the RAF using it airspace to transport weapons.
Agreed!
Spot on summary of the situation.
Disagree, we’re an ally that’s offering and delivering assistance whilst half of Europe stands idle, Russia will certainly be taking note.
We should increase the credit line to Ukraine to allow them to buy more and include Georgia as well as Poland.
So you are happy that we are supporting a country ruled by oligarchs, is riddled with corruption (like Hunter Biden and Mr 10%, his Dad), that has, due to its policies since 2014, lost most of its working population (to both east and west) as well as its industry (aircraft, helicopters, ships, tanks etc), is heavily in debt (to the EU, IMF, US and UK) with no hope of repaying it, is authoritarian (all TV opposing the Government shut down), honours its NAZI heroes both now and in the past, actually has a NAZI type military unit, plus has virtually… Read more »
I think you’re reply says more about your politics than it does mine my friend 😉
Maybe but that was all facts. I just missed out the bit about a very major source of Ukrainian revenue being gas transit fees, with the current contract ending at the end of 2024. So what is going on now has nothing to do with that and the risk that the West has of having to stump up another $1.5B in support.
Have you an agenda with this topic?…or am I missing something lol
Not really, just expressing a contrary view.
And whose people are free to express their opinions, demonstrate against their govt and vote for who they like. You do any of those things and let us know how you get on ?
👍😉
Well I voted for Brexit and Boris, both went rather well.
Your political views somewhat contradict that statement 😳😂🤪…
Don;t see why, I’ve voted Conservative since roughly 1965.
Lol, think you’re more John in Minsk, than John in Milton Keynes….even if I’m wrong I’d perhaps advise a move to the former..
What, with the weather they have at this time of year? No way, there is no John Lewis branch there!
Boris? Leader of the party Party.
So you don’t like the Ukraine? Putins Russia the democratic light of the East then?
Not particularly no. I saw enough of their actions in 2015 to put me off for life. I have claimed nothing here about Russia’s political system and wont as I know very little about it.
Cheeks of the same arse in my view, but, regardless of this, Putin has no right to carry out further operations in another’s country, regardless of what justification he comes up with, ie ethnic Russians in Donbas etc. Same shit Hitler come up with in 38 regarding invasion of the Sudetenland.
Interesting turn of phrase there. The fundamental problem in Ukraine is that the Government will not implement the Minsk agreement that it signed up to in 2016 when they were under extreme military pressure. If they did all this would go away.
I thought it was 2015? But anyway which part is it not implementing as both sides do not seem to be complying with the requirements which were agreed?
You are right, my mistake. The onus is on the Ukrainian Government to implement it as it covers the whole country and they haven’t started to do so.
I will have to re-read the thing again but having read updates and reports on what is actually happening then our perception of events will be different. Both countries are not complying or implementing what was laid down and if we are honest it is in Putins favour for it not to be.
Only one country in the agreement, Ukraine, no other. Russia made sure that it was not part of the agreement and has the same status as France and Germany, the others in the Normandy Four. The Parties are the Ukrainian Government and Donesk and Luhansk..
I will need to peruse the details once more but verify you are talking the Minsk II?
Yes Minsk 11
Perhaps Russia should first honour the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 to honour Ukraine’s sovereignty and existing borders?…
From memory, Lavrov’s view on that was the Memorandum was abrogated when the elected Government in Kiev was overthrown by the coup in 2014.
Well the guilty would claim that wouldn’t they 🤷🏻♂️
I like that, cheeks of the same arse, works for so many things,I’m pinching that. Can’t really disagree with the sentiment either.
No worries 😂👍!
Looking for NAZI’s as usual! Go look in Eastern Germany or France, sponsored of course by your friend Mr Putin!
Try searching Azov in Ukraine, their logo is the “Wolfsangel” rune used by the 2nd SS Panzer Division ‘Das Reich’ or Stepan Bandera, the WWII leader of the Hitler supporting Ukrainian nationalists, who led the slaughter of thousands of Jews and is now a national hero. The Russians hate Azov.
Interesting read John, but alas from my experience with Russians and certain military organisations, white nationalists and blatant right wing “Nazism” is rife in the Russkie mil also. Both countries are about 30 years behind when it comes to race relations, diversity, equality and fairness!
Agreed but Azov proved in 2014/15 to be not just ‘normal’ right wing militarism but an active unit that viciously and without mercy applied its techniques in an ethnic cleaning campaign agaist the DNR/LDR separatists. Very proud of their beliefs they were too. Which is why virtually everyone with any interest in the area believes that if Ukrainian forces striking south releases the Russian Army special measures are planned for Azov. Civil Wars can be extremely vicious, as we know from our past.
Special measures are planned for Azov? See cheeks of the same arse, Russkie extremists taking revenge on Ukrainian extremists! Nothing changes or are the special measures planned for the Azov forces, by the Russians ok?
Ukraine is a young democracy, the TV stations shut down were controlled by oligarchs you moan about. The country has set sights on the democratic road, unlike your friend’ country despot Putin.
RU troll alert?
Your troll alert is faulty. I just say things outside the Borg here.
Hi john yes, Ukraine is not really any different from many other states and they don’t go over the real red lines. But we also support some completely totalitarian states that a pretty much on the same level as China in regards to oppression of their own population. In truth Ethics ( and don’t get me wrong I don’t like this fact) have no place in Geopolitics, all that matters is your own nations security and interest, that can be best served by enlightened self interest or supporting other nations. But no nation has ever done a single thing (… Read more »
Very good, but what I can’t get my head around is why the UK Government thinks it is in our interests to pour thousands of good anti tank weapons into Ukraine, as opposed to the US’s 300? When everyone knows they can be used offensively. They are thus effectively encouraging Kiev to attack Donbas. It looks like the UK supplying munitions so the Ukrainians can die fighting Russia in the hidden interests of the UK.
No I think you need to remember we have a shared interest with Ukraine, they want to be free and independent and it’s in our interest that they stay free and independent. U.K. interest is best by free, strong independent European nations. At present Russia is using naked aggression so we do need to strengthen that nation to resist this. If Russia invaded it will not be Ukrainians dieing for a hidden U.K. interest it will be Russians and Ukrainians dying because Russia did not respect Ukraine sovereignty ( that’s the bottom line and you can’t wrap it up any… Read more »
We have different views on Ukraine as a nation. Many on here disagree but I still believe that the only way that Russia will attack is if the Donbas is attacked. What Russia is doing now is maintaining its deterrence posture against a re-equiping Ukrainian army none of which was withdrawn from positions at the front last year.
Hi john, yes but differing views is fine geopolitics is chaos and complexity incarnate when you add in the behaviours of individual people to the mix it’s impossible to predict and you never know if your right wrong or a bit right until the fat lady sings. Personally think this a more about a Russian Nato negotiation than anything else. I don’t think Russia wants a major war neither does Ukraine or NATO ( if I though anyone did I would be stocking the bunker now). This is about the future boundaries of NATO how russia can feel safe and… Read more »
You are right but Russia views NATO as a US tool so is really only negotiating directly with the boss, the US. Trouble is that the State Department is not used to dealing with a country that is imposing demands on it instead of the other way round, so is having big internal problems coming up with a written response to Russia’s proposals.
The other key problem is that Russia has completely miss understood that NATO is not the US and actually the US cannot negotiate for NATO. It’s a really significant miss understand and not understanding power that even small NATO nations have in the decision making of NATO, the US can be considered first amongst equals but that’s it, it’s one reason Trump hated NATO so much.
I think you are wrong but correct if it were the EU. Up until now the US has had economic, military and personal control over NATO, a factor recognised by Russia. It is clear that part of Russia’s strategy at the moment is to try and drive a wedge into that power structure and, with France, Italy and Germany breaking ranks re Ukraine responses, it seems that they might be making some headway. In some ways the current incompetence being shown by US diplomats could well lead to the end of NATO and the emergence of new groupings.
Any kinetic active weapon system can be used in the offensive role! However the type and effect/range of NLAW ensures it is most effective in the defensive role to include OBUA, fixed or fluid defences.
Agreed, but they I assume could be useful in trench warfare when the sides are 1-200 meters apart as a bunker buster.
We don’t give a toss about your US domestic stuff.
But you seem hell bent on denigrating the West. I at least hope you don’t live in a Western country.
I’d want you to leave here, but your comments are good entertainment.
I admire your confidence in using ‘we’. Shame you can’t take a bit of reality comment. All is not wonderful anywhere in the world and the West is doing its bit too. There is a hint in where I live in my name.
Germany has done sod all. It stopped exports of defensive equipment to Ukraine according to the FT and stopped RAF flights using its airspace to transport any defensive equipment.
Germany has not got rid of Nordstrum 2. It is too busy paying fhe rearming of Russia.
Germany? Really? Germany certainly isn’t a player, it’s a payer, for Russki gas and Putin knows he has them by the balls and they won’t rock the boat.
Agree with most of your posts Airborne so take this as its ment…Germany certainly is a player but not in the military sense…they’ve been playing the EU and Russians for decades. Their toast always lands butter side up….and all whilst contributing the bare minimum 👍
Agreed in that respect mate 👍!
Thought you would mate 😉👍
It won’t deter putin from invading. However you underestimate the effectiveness of the Nlaws in guerilla warfare, which is what these will be used for. Thought some old rpgs and milans were dangerous in Afghanistan? The Nlaws will be much more effective. Combined that with the fact that Ukraine has conscription and although standards aren’t very high, much higher than your average Afghani or Iraqi insurgent. So you have a decently trained population trained from conscription, carrying out guerilla warfare with much better weaponry, that and they don’t have a coalition like in the Gulf war so they’re effectively sinking… Read more »
Spot on!…too many confuse NLAWS with the likes of ‘light’ LAW 80 etc…
This thing might be light in weight but certainly heavyweight in delivery …and all at the hands of a relatively un-trained operative. NLAWS will defeat all current MBT in top flight mode irrespective of counter measures or reactive armour. An inspired move by HM government as basically gives Joe Bloggs the ability to defeat a MBT….if that isn’t deterrence I’m not sure what is.
One error by both of you; Wallace invited Shoigu, the defence minister, not Lavrov. Now on to the important bits… calling the UK a minor player in most things, let alone global political influence, is not true; for political influence… well we’re in the top three. Debatable how you measure. Soft power number one, hard power perhaps four or five, overall probably right behind US and China. Calling Germany a player and not the UK is flatly ridiculous; their military capacity is far smaller than ours and their influence equally outmatched. Calculations by the Russians? Well, I speak Russian and… Read more »
Russia will be very concerned about the U.K. we are in a position to isolate their shipping from the Atlantic. Most people really underestimate our strategic position sitting across most of Europe’s access to the Atlantic, although reduced in number the RN and RAF would still be able to pretty much completely interdict Russian movement in and out of the North Atlantic. To really have a chance to hit the U.K. hard back Russia would always have to stretch it’s armed forces which would likely hurt them very hard. How many bombers and fighters would make the trip back to… Read more »
Our geographic position is only really of use in wartime. We surely are not going to inhibit the movement of Russian ships and submarines to/from the Atlantic in peacetime, even in times of tension.
Hi Graham it depends, although you can not deny passage to one specific nation ( onside of war). The U.K. could start ensuring complete compliance with legislation around pollution control of shipping, by stopping and inspecting all ships of a specific age or without prior evidence of compliance with national legislation on pollution control. So actually a nation that manages a strait can if so wishes make it very problematic especially for a nation with a very old and likely polluting warships. But the reality is Russia always has to have in the back of its mind a war between… Read more »
Nice try. The reality is Putin is a bully of weak people. He’s never had to face serious pushback. The reality of the situation is Ukrainian is a sovereign strategy and senior nato partner with whom we have a longstanding defence relationship including trainers on the ground now
So what are the Germans doing!? Waiting to deploy the medium range Nord Stream 2?
Daniel,
Is Germany a player, really? Or a victim of high Russian gas prices, like the rest of us. What military hardware has Germany supplied to Ukraine? Are they involved in talks with the Russians? Their military readiness is appalling and they have scarcely any more tanks than we have.
I am certainly not arguing that UK is a major player in all this – you are right there.
The UK is the second most powerful member of NATO.
Are They from British stock?.
Interesting question, from what other stock could they come from?
The yanks have a massive store at RAF Welford!!
The US don’t use it.
Don’t use NLAW or Welford? They do use RAF Welford.
I was just enjoying reading your other comment😂
Yes, and realised I probably had the wrong end of the stick!!
He means NLAW of course
Yes, my 1st comment was wrong.
Sky News!
Britain’s armed forces have flown some 2,000 anti-tank weapons to Ukraine this week amid fears of an imminent, new Russian invasion.
“George Allison, of the UK Defence Journal, a website focused on defence news, posted on Twitter a time-lapse of the flights, which he said began on Monday.”
https://news.sky.com/story/russia-invasion-fears-as-britain-sends-2-000-anti-tank-weapons-to-ukraine-12520950
The US doesn’t use the NLAW
It looks like there’s manufacturing in the UK for the NLAW.
In Northern Ireland I think with Contributions from various other sites. All under the auspices of Thales it seems.
Surplus, war or reserve stocks – these weapons will probably need replacing soon – so it’s a win win – Ukraine get more weapons, and we get rid of the stuff we don’t need.
SAAB say a shelf life of 20 years so as it came into service c.2009 there’s a few years left yet.
Agree. Manufactured in Belfast so we should be able to replace relatively quickly. Id like HMG to announce a follow on order asap
The treasury will ask for them back if there is no invasion 😂🤣
Chris wrote:
Are They from British stock?.
The UK MOD ordered 20000 so I presume yes
Blooming heck! Didn’t know we had so many NLAWs to give away! Someone asked why Atlas was not used. I suspect the A400M is not cleared by the RAF as yet to carry explosives?
Wiki says the UK purchased 20,000.
Its the long way to go simply carrying freight, for this role the C17 is better.
And so far over 2000 have been counted being unloaded (eight flights each carrying around 17 pallets holding 18 missiles)
Let’s just hope these NLAWs aren’t used. If they are it will mean that the dug in Ukrainian infantry are under close assault from Russian armour; it will not be a small war. Such a battle would be more akin to the eastern front battles of WW2 than the limited battles of recent wars. Even a limited offensive would produce thousands of casualties and many thousands of refugees. For an idea of the ground and likely course of such a conflict look at the 1st & 2nd battles of the Donbass.
I had a butchers last night and to be frank the Ukraine isn’t short of Anti-Armour weaponary: SPG-9 range 800 metres (Able to kill a T64BV) RPG-29 range 800 metres (Has proven effective agaisnt the US M1 Abrams) RPG-26 RPG-22 RPG-18 RPG-16 RPG-7 RK-3 Corsar range 2500 metres Skif (ATGM) range 5 kilometres Barrier range 5 kilometres KOMBAT range 4 kilometres Stugna-P range 4 kilometres 9K115 Metis range 1000 metres (extra stocks received from Lithuania ) 9K115-2 Metis-M range 2000 metres 9M113 Konkurs range 4000 metres 9K111 range 2500 metres 9M14 Malyutka range 3000 metres FGM-148 Javelin range 2.5 miles… Read more »
Perhaps they could do with some starstreak HVM as they don’t have anything to counter RuAF assets I believe? I don’t think we have much ourselves when it comes to AA
Ukraine,as you would expect from an ex – Soviet Republic is not short of capable AA/SAM systems.
Russia has moved 2 S-400 battalions into Belarus along with 3 squadrons of Su-34 which speculating could be for a no-fly zone, Given the list OP gave from ATGM capabilities I think they could do with some additional AA systems.
Quite a lot of SAM systems but getting left behind update wise, particularly in their ability to hit small targets like cruise missiles and shells. There is a reason the US has not supplied MANPADs, they are regarded as ‘offensive’ so not allowed in.
Just picked up this months Airforce monthly, and it includes 8 pages on the state of affairs regards Ukraines air defences. haven’t rad it yet, but once I will do, I will upload the entire article on a time out basis.
Soviet weapons are very old, in addition, they rotted, plundered and sold for 30 years, in addition, Russian saboteurs blew up several large warehouses with the remains
P.S.
Ukraine, even in nightmares, was not going to fight with anyone until 2014
greetings from Kiev
It seemed at the time that those ammo dumps may well have been blown to hide the thefts, as you say, the contents having been plundered and sold. Am I correct in thinking that you don’t have the manufacturing capability to make new 122mm and 152mm shells?
Mmmmmmmmmm…..?
Not sure what that means. I have been watching the conflict from the start and when these dumps went up it was via a US site MP.net now defunct. There was a lot of information on there that led not just me to that conclusion. As to the shells AFAIK they were made in Donbas and Ukraine has had to strip the old WP countries of their stocks. I asked the question to see if I could get a more up to date view.
An up to date view, ok thanks for the comprehensive reply.
Can you explain why everyone is suspicious of John?
I’ve seen other people post similar sentiments, or claim we should just let Russia so what it wants, or even claim that we are the aggressor in Russia’s rightful lands and still be considered patriotic pillars of this site’s small community. I feel I’ve missed something.
Don’t worry just pulling his leg a little. Most of his responses and replies are well thought out and respectfully put! However he does occasionally fall foul of that well known trait of doing our own capabilities down with minimum depth to his comment! We aren’t the biggest, and have suffered neglect but we are still a major player with rounded capabilities that few others have. We are both a hard and soft power, still with influence, no matter what our continuous stream of useless politicians say or do to the opposite! Cheers
Oh and asking a Ukrainian if they are still able to produce 122 and 152mm Arty shells prior to a possible war……int gathering never sleeps 😂
I don’t know much about shells production in Ukraine, but I found a video from one of the Kiev factories. It seems they are doing shells https://youtu.be/jjAM-1b31cE
Thank you, I’ll check it out.
I think some payback for MH17 and the Salisbury poisonings! “What goes around, comes around”.
Ah, beat me to it David, the Russians ‘demand’ we don’t let Ukraine, Finland, Georgia and Sweden into NATO!
Or they will start a war …. Well, yep we owe them for Salisbury, this seems like suitable payback, hope we’ve written a few slogans on the NLAW warheads.
“Greetings from Sailsbury and all at Malaysian Airlines” might be apt…..
I say invite all those countries to join, throw an iron curtain around Russia and call their bluff…
Whilst I share your gung-ho desire, you do realise this could go all the way ???
I have no doubt if the Russians start taking heavy losses Putin will throw a hissy fit. So we back down if Putin starts rattling his rockets. When do we stop ? The Baltics ? Poland ? Finland ? The Isle of Wight ? If Putins a big enough nut to start a nuclear war someone in the Russian state will arrange an accident to take care of him.
I would not lay my families life on that one to be honest. A military conflict that involves competing Nuclear powers has been avoided for 75 years for a reason. Im happy that we support Ukraine in every way that it’s not direct war with Russia. To be honest I don’t think Russia will mount a full invasion, I just don’t think it has the mass to conquer Ukraine without massive casualties, and the fallout would hurt to much for very little gain. I do think something will happen and there will be “minor incidental clashes that can be caused… Read more »
Russia invades Baltics and informs other NATO states that if they get involved they will go nuclear ?
I think at that point nato would push on with an intervention. The real problem would be if Russia then fires one nuclear weapon in theatre, that is the real problem will America be willing to end humanity for a small Eastern European nation?
This is the big problem As in the end we are talking about species destruction not a war with specific aims.
As lines are pushed people make mistakes and misjudgements It’s a worrying time.
Putin won’t start a nuclear war – and I doubt he will launch a mass invasion of Ukraine. What does he have to gain? He stands to lose too much.
I think Putin wants to play toy soldiers and he’s perfectly prepared to bet other peoples lives on it. Am I the only one who sees the parallels with 1930’s Europe here? Let’s call it what it is; a narcissistic dictator claiming to protect his own people so as to invade a sovereign nation. The question is; did he learn anything from history or is he about to make the same big mistake?
and on top of that saying that NATO should not deploy forces in the county s that joined in Eastern Europe post Cold War!!
Thinking the same.
Hope the boys and girls at Cheltenham are on the ball, if this does kick off I suspect the UK might have a few internet problems.
Just a thought – how many flying hours are left on our C-17 fleet? For such a small size (8 aircraft) they do get worked hard. Still, I’m glad we have them as they are a great asset that not many countries have. I know the line is down and there will be no new airframes but just wished we could have picked up a few more before it closed. I read the price tag was 200m each at the time, so not cheap. Any ideas what we might replace them with when the time comes? – and yeah, I… Read more »
Maybe RAF should look at purchasing a high capacity freighter for general duties and save airframe life on the C17 for tactical requirements?
Plenty of old boeing 700 400+x series and transport aircraft around. Could just buy an old civillian plane add a few RAF systems and use that for ferrying supplies around.
It’s a shame that Airbus didn’t design the A380 with freight in mind as well as passengers.
The C17’s were designed for a 30,000 hour lifecycle,this may possibly be extended to 45,000 hours so there’s plenty of life in them.
Hmmm, maybe publishing the departure base is not wise.
Tomorrow a segment of the Loony Left will be camped outside.
…. but it’s not a safe space.
I think everyone knows where the C-17s are based.
Great. Agree. Get the supplies in now before any conflict. That way Russia cant use the excuse of newly delivered British weapons killing their soldiers once conflict has been joined.
The more we deliver now the better the chances Ukrainian military can put up a stiff resistance.
We should be able to replace these weapons fairly quickly as UK manufactured. In Belfast I believe.
Follow on order for 50,000 more needed.
Just below the picture of a delivery to Brize Norton the paragraph says deliveries started on 27th January. Either the UK has a time machine (flight departs 27th and arrives on 17th) or someone should be reminded that, especially with defence matters, accurate proof reading is important.
I magine that average Russians have a niggling doubt in their minds. They’ve seen Putin invade Crimea relatively easily, and the Donbas not quite so smoothly. Neither time having been directly threatened by Ukraine with regard to their own legal sovereign borders, and with the latter conflict still in swing. Now, they are being primed for attacks deeper into Ukraine, extent unascertained, but involving potential fronts to the east, south and north with Belarus (i.e. close to Kiev). All allegedly for the security of Russians – who have still not remotely been invaded during not far short of a decade… Read more »
Gavin, Russian public opinion is key. Don’t believe all this nonsense about Putin getting 97% of the popular vote. Russia is, understandably after the horrendous casualties of WW2, very casualty averse (remember they lost in Afghanistan precisely because of this). Once the body bags start coming back in large numbers Putin’s position will be hard to maintain. And the body bags will come back in numbers; the Ukrainian armed forces are large and well armed. It will not be a walk in the park for Ivan and even once they’ve taken whatever chunk of Ukraine they want an ongoing insurgency,… Read more »
To succeed, it requires that elysian field for all invaders, the short war. Much predicted, rarely if ever attained. Nazis’ came close with Blitzkrieg; if you ignore the following five years.
AND we have Churchill, who’s determined to save the day. For someone, at least. 🤔
We should help the Ukrainians defend their airspace especially, don’t lose it in begin with, the Ukrainians have substantial ground forces with armour to defend their territory.
the average Russian does not think in the coordinate system you proposed. they are sure that no Ukraine exists. In their opinion, Ukraine is such a ridiculous misunderstanding that should be eliminated.
P.S.
greetings from Kiev
we are all here in high spirits about the received missiles
No one knows what most Russians think including Putin. If the last 100 years has taught the Russian people one thing it’s to keep their thoughts to themselves. We’ll find out if thousands of Russian soldiers start arriving home in body bags. You can bet Putin and his cronies are thinking about that too. Good luck and I hope for better days for your people.
A few years ago I worked on a big project for rollout of corporate IT systems to Moscow, Kiev, Kazakhstan.
As you say the Russian team on the project basically did not believe in the existence of Ukraine. They see it as just a different postcode within greater russia. Some fun discussions we had!
Hi Oleg, I been posting for a few weeks, about helping Ukraine to keep control of it’s airspace, this would be most advantageous to your ground forces. I think the West needs to supply early warning radar systems and supply AMRAAM missiles for your Migs.
Does the mod have any stinger manpads in storage I wonder and what the chances they covertly gifted a few of those on the C17s
Keeping state of the art MANPADs from floating around has long been an issue. Things like Stinger are still, rightly, highly controlled because of the risks to civilian airliners taking off. If it was easier for some individual inspired (?) by actions in sandy places to get a MANPAD than to smuggle a bomb on board a plane…….. I am afraid that a lot of the older generation portable MANPADs are a waste of time against airforces with decent countermeasures. So I would be amazed if MANPADs are on those flights. That said we were going to sell them Sea… Read more »
There will probably be nothing left for sea ceptor to defend by the time they get them
The export of the Ceptor system was granted approval.
Did the export permit include the land based version?
Just a thought.
What is the latest Intel? Do we know if the Russians are now at the stage where they are calling up their reserves? Just imagine a war in a country with 15 active nuclear reactors… what could possibly go wrong?
Russia is not going to target a nuclear reactor with the likelihood they would be on the receiving end of the fallout. They do have some experience where such things are concerned.
Russia won’t target them deliberately however in war nothing is certain so will the technicians and management teams within these nuclear sites stay at their posts? I wouldn’t, I’d get the hell outta there.
The Russians know where they are, they built them.
They did at Chernobyl, many paying for it with their lives.
Latest is 6 landing ships have crossed into the Atlantic from the Baltic and Northern fleets probably heading for the Black Sea and Russia has just begun wargames with Belarus on the Ukranian border without providing the customary 42 days notice to other countries or inviting foreign observers which they are legally obligated to do if more than 9,000 soldiers are involved.
Re those ships, they may be off to join the Syrian Express supply line. The Russians might have got everyone looking in the wrong direction and they actually plan to do something in Syria not Ukraine.
US state dept just 10 hours ago said an invasion could be imminent. The amphibious fleet sailing for the black sea could potentially be to enable a 2nd wave or 2nd front along black sea coastline.
If they do invade Ukraine and are involved in the conflict they shouldnt be allowed to sail back to Russian northern and Baltic fleets. Let them try to run through the Med as target practice for Italian,French and Spanish fleets. If those countries have the balls to stand upto Putin.
They won’t intervene on that; neither will we.
I do not see that as any different from intervening with NATO ground or air forces.
Might be different if Russia has already invaded further parts of the Ukraine.
The Spanish might let them dock. They’ve done it before.
That would be an act of war, realistically NATO or countries listed are not going to war with Russia over Ukraine. That point has been made by no country providing supporting land forces.
no doubt tailed by an ssn
in addition to problems with nuclear reactors, there is the possibility of undermining the dam of the Kiev hydroelectric power station. the consequences will be awful
As I type the 8th C-17 has just taken off en route to Kyiv, If all flights are carrying 16 pallets worth that’s a total of 2304 NLAWs delivered.
in Kiev, everyone is discussing this event and many are in high spirits about the received missiles.
I would like to thank Britain
Our pleasure. Im sorry we are not sending an armoured division. Even our elderly chally2s are still a damn sight better than Russian T64/72/80 crap.
I think NATO needs to wake up and rearm Russia and China are about to prove to the world that tin pot dictators are still around and still craving conquest and empire.
TBF that worm has turned (in part), but late in the day and it will take more time.
Actually the Ukrainian T-64MK’s are better than Russian T-72’s, they been upgraded since the 90’s.
Interesting claim. Russia is still making very upgraded new T-72B3M. Do you know which version of the T-72 is being used by the DNR/LDR militias? The main Russian units have T-90A with T-90M now being delivered.
Here is a source of T-64 tank info.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-ukraine-refit-its-t-64bm-bulat-tanks-fight-russia-97467
Interesting , thanks.
Hopefully all we are seeing is an aggressive geopolitical play from Russia and nothing more. Hopefully the rest of Europe showing some strong red lines as well and clearly iterate that an a strong independent Ukraine is the only thing that’s acceptable. I do think we need to also consider the Russian view ( know your enemy and the best battle is one that’s not needed) I suspect a lot of this comes from an inbuilt Russian fear and mistrust of Western European powers (we have invaded few times to be fair) although the need of Ukraine to be independent… Read more »
You seem to have got very naive thinking! The idea of Europe defending itself’ is laughable, because it has a neighbour with lopsided military capabilites.
That’s why we have NATO, post Cold War as well, and into the future.
Meirion the reality is Russia is not an economic peer to the major European economies, it’s only the faulty world view that came out of the end of the Cold War ( the peace dividend and end of history rubbish) that has lead to any military lack of parity, so it’s not the idea of Europe defending itself which is laughable, it the idea that Europe is not able to defend itself which is what’s laughable ( and very sad). Russia is not China, its military would not be able to sustain a major operation that threatened Western Europe, the… Read more »
Maybe time to send some “volunteers” to Ukraine. It’s great that we are sending them missile but would be better if we sent a modern air defence system. I can’t imagine the Russian Air Force being much use against something like Land Ceptor and I can’t imagine Russia getting very far without air superiority.
Just a thought as we know the treasury is nothing if not cheap do you think they included a “use incase of invasion only” and a “if not used return to sender in 1 year” clause.
Or a not for resale clause as if there is a stand down they will be off somewhere as cash sales. A well beaten path in Ukraine. I’d be surprised if some hadn’t been sold as soon as they are/were deployed, to the Russians.
The warpons supplied will be on lend-lease type of terms, so Not for resale, only returned or destroyed.
I’d bet that lots would be stolen if not used. Good money on the black market is a Ukrainian weakness.
Stingers on the way from Lithuania
That will change things.
Nice work. I did fear we had sent them PIATs
Thank you🇬🇧💙💛
Tosh. Great Britain could easily field 500 MBT’s, 80,000 troops and hundreds of warships if shove came to push!
Russia is a paper tiger. Our superior forces would easily defeat them.
we should use all three parachute battalions as shock troops to push them back a few hundred miles from their current forming up points.
our submarines could easily sink all six Russian assault ships currently on route to invade Odessa.
the British bulldog craves a fight, an easy victory for our heroes!!!!!