Turkish Defence Minister visits British aircraft carrier

sorry.

Is he racist? According to his niece he is a narcissist that will do almost anything to get his own way. Many noted the freedom granted to white protesters whilst BLM supporters were given the stick. I would argue that if you pursue policies that have a racist element to them then you probably are a racist!

Or smart enough to use peoples fears and prejudice for his own gain. Continuous use of the term racist is both lazy and used to prevent the accused arguing against the accusation. The more it is overused reduces the impact when needed for overt and real racist agendas and abuse.

I take your point…but racism is a form of tribalism and is therefore a natural feature of the human condition. It follows that it is ubiquitous! May as well call it what it is!

Hear hear.

So funny…madness breaks out in the US military…from Fox News…what utter far right guff!

And so anything YOU don’t agree with is “Far right”, that must make you “far-Left”

Complete tosh…that isn’t a logical argument. Fox news has a very right-wing agenda….some of which is reminiscent of extreme right activists. You don’t have to be bloody Karl Marx to work that one out! I fervently hope that the UK doesn’t go down the route of heavy political bias as far as TV and radio are concerned!

My argument is as logical as anything you say. You disagree with Fox News, so they’re far right. You disagree with Trump so he’s a racist, or a fascist or whatever is the trigger word for the day.

You must be a communist then, comrade.

Biden is. Wonder what his mini-me boy has been up to …

Hunter Biden: What was he doing in China and Ukraine? – BBC News

I’ll try it one more time. Fox news advocates a far right platform…that is why I disagree with them. I really don’t think that you have the intellect to understand anything other than simple ‘yes it is..no it isn’t’….

Cannot argue with actual facts, so just call the opposition names.

Anything to the right of Neil McKinnock is far right then, is that it? Got it.

Citing Fox News to support your claims doesn’t provide the most amount of credibility this side of the pond. Regardless of what is in his heart, Trump at the very least said things that could be construed as racially charged and seemed to be dog whistle statements to his base.

why of course 2 sugars and a milk.

HAHA! 😂😂😂😂😂

please state one thing that i said that was racist

Hmm, “racist cunts” for starters.

So anyone that despises Trump is a Democrat. As I understand it there are plenty of Republicans that detest the man. He was completely unfit for office…..but of course that is irrelevant for people like you!

I said absolutely nothing like that. I made absolutely no partisan Political comment. Maybe you should actually read posts before making condescending uninformed grunts. I said that the FACTS demonstrated that the living standards of African-Americans improved considerably due directly to Trump’s policies. The implementation of these policies fails to support the trite accusation that Trump acted in a racist manner. But these FACTS are utterly ignored by many as the FACTS do not support preconceptions. If he was “completely unfit for office” and he was directly responsible for some of the biggest improvements in living standards since records began, then what does that say about his predecessors?
Personally, I think he was an ignorant oaffish buffoon, but the FACTS indicate he was NOT “completely” useless or a racist.

It was Covid19 that punctured the economic balloon, inflated by tax cuts for the wealthly! T’s handling of the pandemic got off on a bad start, by saying ‘it’s a hoax’!

I agree with most of that but there are respected opinions that do not agree with the Left’s condemnation of Trumps tax cuts.
Foe Example Bloomberg concluded, ” Vice President Joe Biden’s campaign website says, “Tax experts estimate that over the long run, 83% of Trump’s tax giveaway will flow to the top 1% of earners in this country.” That’s not quite fair to the president, though. While the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 was far from perfect, it did cut taxes on the middle class and fueled the economic growth that brought unemployment rates to half-century lows before the pandemic.”….”it’s only fair to acknowledge that just about everyone, from rich to poor, got at least something out of the Trump tax cut.”
The point of all my posts is that some of the FACTS are being completely ignored as they do not fit comfortably with preconcieved political opinions and agendas.

He never said that. You might also look at what Dr. Fauci said about the pandemic, masks, etc. back in March of 2020.” You can wear mask if it makes you feel better.” Among other things.

And yet John, you simply can’t get away from the fact that Trump utterly disgraced and insulted the most important high office in the world.

He’s quite simply an odious individual, with zero respect for anyone who doesn’t share his strange blinkered view of the world, or would you say otherwise? Genuinely interested….

okay. what about him asking his followers to attack the CAPITAL!!!!!! thats like someone asking someone else to blow the houses of parliament!

Hardly an “attack” … a protest where the police stepped aside to let them into the capitol thereby allowing a small number of extremists

Given the artillery that a lot of the protestors were carrying its amazing there wasn’t a gun battle during their coup attempt, its almost as if they weren’t actually planning to attack and overthrow the government. Imagine that.

Keep taking the idiot pills Douglas. You don’t have the same doctor as Donald do you?

Yup – first one guy uses the C word, the now you are calling people idiots. That what I like about you progressive liberals, you are neither progressive or liberal.

Name calling is all you guys have.

There was certainly a lack of police to prevent elements of a crowd of 20000 trump supporters to push past the police and forced their way into the Capitol, on that day.

It was a attack by a determined element of the crowd of 20000 trump supporters!

That’s not racist, he didn’t use the term attack, he simply used his followers fears and narrative for his own end. With all due respect as you mature , tegzrdles if you agree or disagree, you will realise that’s politics. No matter what party, left, right, communist, liberal, facsist it’s all pretty much cheeks of the same arse. Sad, but true.

Tegzrdles…..is that a dinosaur! Auto correct, small I phone, big fingers, should say regardless.

excatly he know that dumb americans would take it this way but he still told them to do it despite the fact

Don’t give them facts! They don’t like facts,

Well Douglas, at least he has an excuse then for his stupid comments!

What’s yours then?

I’m old and half senile…..which is infinitely preferable to someone who, living in a moral vacuum, thinks that Trump is a marvellous fellow. Lack of judgement to that extent is more than ignorance, it’s a personality disorder!

You’re making an awful lot of assumptions about, I never said Trump was marvellous, I never said I’m a supporter.

What I AM, is: not keen on the current so called liberal mindset of calling people racists, fascists and far-right just because they disagree with you politically. just because they disagree with your politics either. It’s like being back in the 1980’s with Rik from the Young Ones, it was ludicrous then, and its still ludicrous now.

And I’m not too keen on calling people c**nts (which I know was someone else, but which started the debate)

As for your clear support of Biden, that highlights your own “ignorance” if that’s the term you want to use. I’m glad he ain’t in charge of my country.

There you go…I am not a Biden supporter as such, I just think that he is infinitely better for the planet than Donald Trump. But not to worry as I am sure that Sir Kier will live up to your expectations in the next election!

You don’t have to think he is a marvelous fellow, any more than you need to think he is the Apotheosis of Evil.

Yeah, this is pretty much my view.

I thought the Turks were in for a carrier… good sales op, just de spec the electronics; leave it up to them to get the right planes and let the Generals decide which side their Yufka is buttered.

Turkey is going to build an aircraft carrier, probably two. The Turkish Navy is larger than the British or French, and has a long tradition

Or steal the plans.

In many ways you could say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. We see a Tory government creating a generous furlough scheme, renationalising major rail services, rebuilding the armed forces and the shipbuilding industry, recruiting nurses and making concessions to sensible opposition proposals for emergency covid measures. Bellicose Corbyn and his acolytes have been replaced by a more courteous and constructive opposition front bench. Meanwhile Sturgeon, the UVF and the EU are doing their best to sink the ship. I for one am happy to see people of good will co-operating across the parties in the crisis.

Well said Paul, I do wish Labour would find its feet, because every government requires a good opposition to keep them on there toes.

The problem is, they need to play a ‘Blair’ type card (as much as I detested that man), for a true sea change and they already played it……

I’m beginning to think Labour is an utterly spent force to be honest.

Not a spent force but a more contrite and mature force who are learning to work by influencing and rational argument rather than yelling. As I see it we have a constructive opposition assuming a supporting role in what is a de-facto government of national unity lead by one nation tories. Given Brexit, Covid, the passing of Prince Phillip, Ms Sturgeon and riots in Belfast that’s absolutely appropriate. Strikers don’t score without an assist.

I do agree with you, but reading the comments i so dislike how people dislike others having an opinion different to them now.
Since the economic crisis in 2008 we have tried to get investment from outside which has led to a situation with china where we are constantly at odds with ourselves but that is similar to Australia’s position.
I just wish our moral compass wasn’t so swayed by money

The problem is if you are only prepared to deal with people who agree with your ‘moral compass’ you wouldn’t trade with anyone. The trick is to avoid being tempted to lower your own standards so you can keep a clear conscience. I used to have a German accountant colleague who explained to me that in Germany bribing a German company was a crime but bribing an export customer was tax deductable.
I do sense a sea change government attitude away from the Cameron strategy of **se licking potential external investors towards standing on our own two feet and having some faith on our own abilities, which has got to be a good thing.

Undoubtedly the French are key to securing the area, we both need each other vastly until Germany starts to pull its weight properly.

Germany pulling it weight properly? I wish, but will never happen. People still react to what took place over 76 years ago.

They have certainly gone in the right direction, injecting more cash and ordering/fixing assets, if its just a small move to divert attention from them who knows lets see.

Russia are also developing such things oh and Iran too but they funnily enough very rarely see the light of day. Turkey is a growing power but its not at the forefront of technology yet, the only country in the region that has such abilities is Israel and Turkey are a long way behind them.

Surprised Blair didnt set up Hertz rental for anything we had in the fleet, mates rates discounts providing he got paid to an account in Panama.

Maybe your clock starts with brexit , but the last I remember we invaded Iraq and destroyed Libya which ended in the death of millions, and the cost of that war is still being repaid by the treasury. Turkey was not the one that bombed Syria and caused the civil war there nor did it destroy Libya . It’s supporting in Libya the UN recognised government against a warlord backed by France who did war crimes .

Syria like Libya was a stable country until it was destroyed by Europeans and the US. Turkey was not getting 1 refugee from Syria before that and now host over 4 million refugees as a direct result of the endless adventures of NATO members. Turkey has no interest in Syria other than stability and needs not a tiny piece of land. Turkey has created a buffer zone that houses millions of refugees that otherwise would head to Europe and those that caused problem dont appreciate the Turkish work there.

And Libya let’s not even think about getting into Cameron war and Obama leading from the back famously. You can lecture army recruits teens but not those that saw what happened . Libya has been turned into a failed state by Cameron Sarkozy Obama. Let’s not act we have clean hands in the name of patriotism because history will judge everything

Turkey in 2015 shot down a Russian jet due incursion into its airspace . The turks work with the Russians but confront them when it needs to, something we no longer have the balls for anymore other scream Russia Russia without any policy towards Russia . We no longer know how to handle big powers like Russia or China or the US even as we once used to like in the Thatcher era. Erdogan was in good terms with Trump Xi and Putin, played them, putting his national interest first rather than sucking up to powers as we do with the US constantly.

Right now Erdogan is playing peace maker between Russia and Ukraine brewing war while the US is confused and the EU is hopeless and the UK missing from the world stage over a decade

One big flaw in the argument you have, the government the UK has now is not the government that invaded Iraq (by the hands of the USA) or the one that meddled stupidly in Libya (again at the hands of the USA). Both the US and UK governments have changed, something that is no longer allowed to happen in Turkey since Erdogan installed himself as a dictator.

Turkey acting as a peacekeeper? You are having a laugh surely. Its movement into Syria as a ‘buffer zone’ is just propaganda its a blatant land grab, it would have went further if it wasnt for Russia/Iran.

I neither stated it started the war in Syria or created it, however when the country was weak it saw a horrendous opportunity to invade which it did, it also created an even further tidal wave of refugees which it then used to leverage cash from the EU to prevent them being released. It may well have set up shelters/camps for the people now with EU money but it did nothing of the sort for years and used them as a bargaining chip.

Libya yes is a mess, not from Turkey’s doing again I never said it was however it is complicating matters by sending forces in to secure oil/gas reserves something its also doing in a China eque style in the med against Greece.

If Turkey is playing peacemaker with Russia why did it fight a 2 month war against it in Armenia/Azerbaijan?

Also as you like to drag up the past and are adamant Turkey is not after a land grab, when is it going to return North Cyprus?