UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has hosted Turkish Defence Minister Hulusi Akar on board HMS Prince of Wales.

The Ministry of Defence say that Minister Akar is on a two-day visit to the UK “to reaffirm our two countries’ close cooperation on defence and security as NATO Allies”.

According to a statement:

“Minister Akar was welcomed to the UK with a Guard of Honour from the Coldstream Guards at Horse Guards Parade, ahead of a bilateral meeting at the Ministry of Defence. Both defence ministers took the opportunity to discuss how the UK and Turkey could work together and with international partners to support regional security and the ongoing fight against Daesh terrorists – both nations are members of the Global Coalition to defeat Daesh.”

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:

“Turkey is an important NATO Ally and partner for the UK in upholding security in the Mediterranean and Black Sea regions.

I was delighted to welcome Minister Akar to the UK for fruitful discussions on how our nations can build on our strong defence relationship in a range of areas – from NATO exercises and operations to industry co-operation.”

The Ministry of Defence say in a news release about the visit that the Defence Secretary was able to showcase the “significant maritime capabilities” the UK can offer towards upholding international security aboard HMS Prince of Wales, docked at Her Majesty’s Naval Base Portsmouth.

On board the aircraft carrier, Mr Wallace and Mr Akar took part in a meeting with representatives from the British defence industry.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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131 COMMENTS

  1. That seems a bit of a gaffe, reminding the Turks we have F35B equipped carriers whereas they’ve been thrown out of the F35 programme and will have nothing to fly off their carriers.

    • Biden will let them back in, he is a idiot after all… and just wants to undo anything Trump signed or did. will turn USA into a 3rd world country

        • He’s a buffoon but I don’t believe he’s actively racist, he’s arrogant with a sense of self importance, but not overtly racist. His policies were more to do with gaining votes, and he will do whatever it takes to whatever audience, to get them. Like any politician will do either side of the pond. And throwing about the term racist is easy to say, harder to prove. It’s an overused term, as once thrown into the debate scares people into submission.

          • Is he racist? According to his niece he is a narcissist that will do almost anything to get his own way. Many noted the freedom granted to white protesters whilst BLM supporters were given the stick. I would argue that if you pursue policies that have a racist element to them then you probably are a racist!

          • Or smart enough to use peoples fears and prejudice for his own gain. Continuous use of the term racist is both lazy and used to prevent the accused arguing against the accusation. The more it is overused reduces the impact when needed for overt and real racist agendas and abuse.

          • I take your point…but racism is a form of tribalism and is therefore a natural feature of the human condition. It follows that it is ubiquitous! May as well call it what it is!

          • And so anything YOU don’t agree with is “Far right”, that must make you “far-Left”

          • Complete tosh…that isn’t a logical argument. Fox news has a very right-wing agenda….some of which is reminiscent of extreme right activists. You don’t have to be bloody Karl Marx to work that one out! I fervently hope that the UK doesn’t go down the route of heavy political bias as far as TV and radio are concerned!

          • I’ll try it one more time. Fox news advocates a far right platform…that is why I disagree with them. I really don’t think that you have the intellect to understand anything other than simple ‘yes it is..no it isn’t’….

          • Citing Fox News to support your claims doesn’t provide the most amount of credibility this side of the pond. Regardless of what is in his heart, Trump at the very least said things that could be construed as racially charged and seemed to be dog whistle statements to his base.

        • Trump has been gone for over two months. Think you could get over it now and post something relevant to defense or the military or almost anything else?

        • If your information comes from the main stream media, everything you think you know about Trump, Biden and many other things is incorrecr.

        • I suppose for people like you there is no room to deviate from the party line.

          Irrelevant that African-American unemployement sank 5.5%, its lowest recorded level in history.

          Irrelevant that in 2019, the latest data available, the African-American poverty rate was 18.8% – which is the lowest on record, beating the previous year, since the official count began in the 1960s.

          Irrelevant that Trump increased federal funding for historically Black colleges and universities by 17 percent to a total exceeding $100 million — more than any president in history.( Obama, actually reduce this funding.)

          Irrelevant that under Trump, the Purchasing Power Parities ( PPP measures how much spending power an actual individual citizen has and how much it changes each year) from 2017,18 and 19, the US PPP grew a massive 9.2%. During this time the EU27’s PPP grew 0.9%. This massive improvement in the US standard if living and increase in disposable income, generated by Trump’s policies, of course is never mentioned by your parties propaganda organ, the BBC.

          Irrelevant, that Trump appointed a truely odious, incompetant, Democrat African-American to high Office, Omarosa something, ignoring her colour but believed ( wrongly) in her abilities.

          No. People like you never bother to let FACTS interfere with your bigoty.

          • So anyone that despises Trump is a Democrat. As I understand it there are plenty of Republicans that detest the man. He was completely unfit for office…..but of course that is irrelevant for people like you!

          • I said absolutely nothing like that. I made absolutely no partisan Political comment. Maybe you should actually read posts before making condescending uninformed grunts. I said that the FACTS demonstrated that the living standards of African-Americans improved considerably due directly to Trump’s policies. The implementation of these policies fails to support the trite accusation that Trump acted in a racist manner. But these FACTS are utterly ignored by many as the FACTS do not support preconceptions. If he was “completely unfit for office” and he was directly responsible for some of the biggest improvements in living standards since records began, then what does that say about his predecessors?
            Personally, I think he was an ignorant oaffish buffoon, but the FACTS indicate he was NOT “completely” useless or a racist.

          • It was Covid19 that punctured the economic balloon, inflated by tax cuts for the wealthly! T’s handling of the pandemic got off on a bad start, by saying ‘it’s a hoax’!

          • I agree with most of that but there are respected opinions that do not agree with the Left’s condemnation of Trumps tax cuts.
            Foe Example Bloomberg concluded, ” Vice President Joe Biden’s campaign website says, “Tax experts estimate that over the long run, 83% of Trump’s tax giveaway will flow to the top 1% of earners in this country.” That’s not quite fair to the president, though. While the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 was far from perfect, it did cut taxes on the middle class and fueled the economic growth that brought unemployment rates to half-century lows before the pandemic.”….”it’s only fair to acknowledge that just about everyone, from rich to poor, got at least something out of the Trump tax cut.”
            The point of all my posts is that some of the FACTS are being completely ignored as they do not fit comfortably with preconcieved political opinions and agendas.

          • He never said that. You might also look at what Dr. Fauci said about the pandemic, masks, etc. back in March of 2020.” You can wear mask if it makes you feel better.” Among other things.

          • And yet John, you simply can’t get away from the fact that Trump utterly disgraced and insulted the most important high office in the world.

            He’s quite simply an odious individual, with zero respect for anyone who doesn’t share his strange blinkered view of the world, or would you say otherwise? Genuinely interested….

          • okay. what about him asking his followers to attack the CAPITAL!!!!!! thats like someone asking someone else to blow the houses of parliament!

          • Hardly an “attack” … a protest where the police stepped aside to let them into the capitol thereby allowing a small number of extremists

            Given the artillery that a lot of the protestors were carrying its amazing there wasn’t a gun battle during their coup attempt, its almost as if they weren’t actually planning to attack and overthrow the government. Imagine that.

          • Yup – first one guy uses the C word, the now you are calling people idiots. That what I like about you progressive liberals, you are neither progressive or liberal.

            Name calling is all you guys have.

          • There was certainly a lack of police to prevent elements of a crowd of 20000 trump supporters to push past the police and forced their way into the Capitol, on that day.

            It was a attack by a determined element of the crowd of 20000 trump supporters!

          • That’s not racist, he didn’t use the term attack, he simply used his followers fears and narrative for his own end. With all due respect as you mature , tegzrdles if you agree or disagree, you will realise that’s politics. No matter what party, left, right, communist, liberal, facsist it’s all pretty much cheeks of the same arse. Sad, but true.

          • Tegzrdles…..is that a dinosaur! Auto correct, small I phone, big fingers, should say regardless.

          • excatly he know that dumb americans would take it this way but he still told them to do it despite the fact

        • I don’t want to see language like that on this site. I can swear with the best of them, but I draw the line at the C word. And certainly not on a defence website. Keep it for Facebook.

          • I’m old and half senile…..which is infinitely preferable to someone who, living in a moral vacuum, thinks that Trump is a marvellous fellow. Lack of judgement to that extent is more than ignorance, it’s a personality disorder!

          • You’re making an awful lot of assumptions about, I never said Trump was marvellous, I never said I’m a supporter.

            What I AM, is: not keen on the current so called liberal mindset of calling people racists, fascists and far-right just because they disagree with you politically. just because they disagree with your politics either. It’s like being back in the 1980’s with Rik from the Young Ones, it was ludicrous then, and its still ludicrous now.

            And I’m not too keen on calling people c**nts (which I know was someone else, but which started the debate)

            As for your clear support of Biden, that highlights your own “ignorance” if that’s the term you want to use. I’m glad he ain’t in charge of my country.

          • There you go…I am not a Biden supporter as such, I just think that he is infinitely better for the planet than Donald Trump. But not to worry as I am sure that Sir Kier will live up to your expectations in the next election!

          • You don’t have to think he is a marvelous fellow, any more than you need to think he is the Apotheosis of Evil.

        • You should be banned from this site until you at least can speak in standard English without infantile profanity,

      • Biden has Not undone anything on foreign policy, China sanctions stay in place etc.
        Turkey would only be let back in, if they comply with US policy in the region!

      • A bit of a hyperbolic statement surely? I think it’s in the UK’s national interest to have a bit of stability in Washington. As for the question in hand the selling of F35s to Turkey really should depend if they play ball regarding Russia.

  2. The sheer size of it sends enough of a message: oh and the fact we have F35B and they ummm don’t.

  3. Turkey has got to be kept on our side as it’s strong and willing to fight.
    We’ve got to increase cooperation with ‘her’ and keep her sweet, ie not to take umbrage only to see her come under the influence of Russia. What about buying some of their drones? Politically untenable?

        • Both can be true they could be a bigger threat than Russia in a decade who knows things with both are very unpredictable, but yes presently we have to bite the bullet see bigger pictures and keep them onside and hope they get a more civilised leadership, or at least reduce the likelihood of driving them into the Russian/Chinese camp. One thing we don’t want to do however Is think they are a friendly power and arm them in ways that come back to bite in ways that most Middle Eastern countries are not likely to do for varying reasons. This is a complex high risk game that needs to be carefully, flexibly and intelligently managed. There is no black and white.

          • I thought the Turks were in for a carrier… good sales op, just de spec the electronics; leave it up to them to get the right planes and let the Generals decide which side their Yufka is buttered.

          • Turkey is going to build an aircraft carrier, probably two. The Turkish Navy is larger than the British or French, and has a long tradition

    • WTF they steal all the architectural rights to what ever they buy, and then reverse engineer them, its like a modern 70s russia

    • Erdogan is already buying Russian equipment and has heavyweight financial debt to China. Turkey should be kicked out of NATO, not cosied up to

      • When you mention heavyweight financial debt, balance of trade deficit, do any other countries come to mind that should be kicked out of NATO…

        …certainly NOT Germany for example.

      • China (government, banks, companies and individuals) owns more than $1.1 Trillion of US debt. If you want Turkey to leave NATO due to it’s debt to China, how do all the other NATO member fare…?

  4. I find it an odd juxtaposition that while the French and pals are at the Turk’s throat, we seem to be closer to them than ever before. I should add we just signed an FTA with them as well. Not only that, but we also lent them drilling ships while France was desperately trying to look tough and stop the Turks drilling in the Eastern Med

    • levi wrote:

      Not only that, but we also lent them drilling ships 

      Actually we haven’t, the Turks purchased a drilling ship which was built in South Korea for a Brazilian company in 2012, the company went bankrupt and it was seized March 2019 for unpaid debts. It was moored off Port Talbot in Wales until it came up for auction, where it was sold off cheap in which to recuperate some of those debts.

      • They got them from Norway but next drilling ships will be made in Turkey . Turkey has a large shipping industry that produce civilian cargo container ships , cruise liners , yachts , corvettes, frigates submarines and soon destroyers

  5. Little bit of “look at our cool carrier and big bearskin hats! BTW, could we have some of those fancy budget drones and EW systems you’ve been kicking arse with recently?”

    • Our drone capability will be soon put theirs in the shade.

      There was little point in deploying immature systems that are no use in near peer.

      The budget drones would not survive for 5 minutes in an environment with naval CIWS and point missile systems.

      • Yeah their drones were pretty much designed on the quick when they were refused higher tech ones from abroad. If we can’t at least match that then we truly are wasting our time. I think the direction they went in is probably somewhat similar to the old Fairey Swordfish where a very low tech but surprisingly competent platform completely caught out an u prepared defence. That however while massively a wake up call doesn’t mean the very same tech would be equally useful for us or for any length of time. As Steve Jobs always highlighted while learning from what you see, you always go to where the puck is going to be not where it currently is.

      • “The budget drones would not survive for 5 minutes in an environment with naval CIWS and point missile systems.”

        Tell me what CIWS have ceiling to down a BKT 2 drone? I can only think of Oto 76mm.

      • Agree with Alex S and would add that swarm cheap drones would quickly exhaust point defence Missiles systems. Got to hand it to the Turks. Early utilisation of innovations, gain an advantage, learn from operational use and continue evolving based on real world use rather than a decade or so of research and development trials with concepts eventually shelved while we visualise a new horizon to walk towards.

  7. Is there anyone that we dont mind turning a blind eye to? Moment someone wants to do some trade with us they become our best friend.

    • London is awash with Arab and Russian money. Cameron’s plan was that China would rescue our economy if we left the EU and finance our new nuclear power stations and high speed rail. Now we have a moral conscience about the Uighurs and China is considered a threat. They are too powerful – we cannot control them. So our latest hope for economic salvation is a trade deal with India- more malleable. Asia-Pacific has now morphed into Indo-Pacific. No mention of course of the Modis ambition to turn India into a single religion Hindu state – discrimination against Christians and persecution of Muslims being just fine. Bit like Erdogan really, just a different type of dictator. Apparently we prefer to deal with these types rather than our European ‘friends’ as Boris refers to them. Funny old world.

      • Ridiculous conjecture.
        The U.K. doesn’t need any “economic salvation” anymore than any other G7 nation. In fact, the U.K. is economically in a better position than other members. But I suspect these facts doesn’t suit your anti-Boris prejudice. 🤷‍♂️

        • Some folks just love to bash Boris….

          Simple fact is, he’s led the country from the front, through the most difficult period since the darkest days of 1940.

          He’s made mistakes, any leader would. Thank the gods we didn’t have a bungling Labour government that couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery…..

          To illustrate the point, Labour has sensibly ditched it’s looney tunes left wing elements and sent them scuttling back to the shadows.

          Despite this panicking course correction to the middle ground and electing an ‘apparently’ electorally safe, over cautious grey lawyer type as leader, (who seems terrified to make any decisions of his own, let’s remember that absolutely cringingley awkward ‘ take the knee’ moment) has left them floundering in the polls ….

          So, if Boris is ‘apparently’ the bungling idiot the lefties would have us believe, why don’t the public believe them??

          I would hypothesize that it’s because the majority of the British public sensibly realise that Labour remains untrustworthy with national govenence.

          The party is seen as incompetent and indescisive, always on the back foot, playing catch-up and reactive instead of calling out the government and challenging them with serious alternative policies.

          It still couldn’t find it’s collective arse with both hands….

          Try again Labour, piss poor effort, how about an effective opposition, our democracy needs one to function properly….

          • In many ways you could say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. We see a Tory government creating a generous furlough scheme, renationalising major rail services, rebuilding the armed forces and the shipbuilding industry, recruiting nurses and making concessions to sensible opposition proposals for emergency covid measures. Bellicose Corbyn and his acolytes have been replaced by a more courteous and constructive opposition front bench. Meanwhile Sturgeon, the UVF and the EU are doing their best to sink the ship. I for one am happy to see people of good will co-operating across the parties in the crisis.

          • Well said Paul, I do wish Labour would find its feet, because every government requires a good opposition to keep them on there toes.

            The problem is, they need to play a ‘Blair’ type card (as much as I detested that man), for a true sea change and they already played it……

            I’m beginning to think Labour is an utterly spent force to be honest.

          • Not a spent force but a more contrite and mature force who are learning to work by influencing and rational argument rather than yelling. As I see it we have a constructive opposition assuming a supporting role in what is a de-facto government of national unity lead by one nation tories. Given Brexit, Covid, the passing of Prince Phillip, Ms Sturgeon and riots in Belfast that’s absolutely appropriate. Strikers don’t score without an assist.

        • I’ve no problem with Boris. He is doing a good job. as the saying goes the Lord loves a repentant sinner. I agree with JC’s comments below; he leads a team which has neutralised the labour party by adopting social democratic policies, albeit the covid crisis forced the issue of people before profit.
          My ‘economic salvation’ comment was sarcastic. Sorry you didn’t appreciate that. Have a nice day. 🙂

          • I do agree with you, but reading the comments i so dislike how people dislike others having an opinion different to them now.
            Since the economic crisis in 2008 we have tried to get investment from outside which has led to a situation with china where we are constantly at odds with ourselves but that is similar to Australia’s position.
            I just wish our moral compass wasn’t so swayed by money

          • The problem is if you are only prepared to deal with people who agree with your ‘moral compass’ you wouldn’t trade with anyone. The trick is to avoid being tempted to lower your own standards so you can keep a clear conscience. I used to have a German accountant colleague who explained to me that in Germany bribing a German company was a crime but bribing an export customer was tax deductable.
            I do sense a sea change government attitude away from the Cameron strategy of **se licking potential external investors towards standing on our own two feet and having some faith on our own abilities, which has got to be a good thing.

      • Not to point out the very obvious when we left the EU we have continued to trade with them, not exactly 100% as was but the ‘Cliff edge’ and all that other crap has not happened.

        I one for am glad that we have shown an ethical stance towards China as should the rest of the world but the EU for one rushed a trade deal through with them as quickly as they could.

        • Well, mindful of DFs reprimand re political discussions 😊 I will only say that in EU defence matters we should continue to work with French, take a lead role in securing the North Atlantic and do our share in defending NATO and Europe’s eastern borders against Russian aggression. All these assignments are reflected in the defence review.

          • Undoubtedly the French are key to securing the area, we both need each other vastly until Germany starts to pull its weight properly.

          • Germany pulling it weight properly? I wish, but will never happen. People still react to what took place over 76 years ago.

          • They have certainly gone in the right direction, injecting more cash and ordering/fixing assets, if its just a small move to divert attention from them who knows lets see.

  8. Some countries do respect simple brute force. I wonder if anything tangible will come of this meeting or what both countries long term goals are. Perhaps turkey needs western allies in response to their bellicose behaviour towards the USA, France, Germany and Greece. I sorely hope we are sharp enough to be able to trade this for some cold hard benefit to our country, although based on past evidence I imagine there will be some wishy washy benefit to no one in particular, perhaps save to Turkey.
    Turkey always interests me and I think will be a country to watch in the future.

  9. We are in a double act with the US, we are the nice guys.
    The US does the dirty to keep people like the Greeks onside, we keep the contact.

    • I dont think so. But I do think Turkey wants to operate a larger class of carrier than an lphd. They might sign a contract for the QE design and equipment to be built in Turkey. Not sure why we would go along with that but as BoJo is in charge, who the hell knows what will happen?

        • Turkey is developing unmanned fighter jets plus a 5th generation fighter jet . I think most on here know very little about global defence or Turkish defence and focus on the UK only or US at times .

          • Russia are also developing such things oh and Iran too but they funnily enough very rarely see the light of day. Turkey is a growing power but its not at the forefront of technology yet, the only country in the region that has such abilities is Israel and Turkey are a long way behind them.

    • Turkey is interested in acquiring a carrier along similar lines to QE by building one, not buying one of ours.

    • Erdogan is far from Biden’s liking! Very unlikly US would sell F-35’s to Turkey again. Also if the UK sold IP plans for Turkey to build a QE type carrier it would really unset the balance of power in the East Med. BoJo will receive a visiter soon asking him not to do so, in return for something, more likely!

    • Are we to go through this nonsense every-time a foreign dignitary gets a tour of one of the carriers? 🤦‍♂️

  12. It’s up to the EU to let them in now if they want. We are out of the EU so can avoid the consequences.

    Turkey was important to NATO, but it’s all a bit ambivalent now with it being more fundamentalists and effectively totalitarian.

    • EU + Turkey would not suite France and Club Med.

      Turkey are not interested in creating a socialist feather bed where as long as everyone is as inefficient as it each other that is fine.

      Tony Blur was largely responsible for starting on boarding Turkey and then nobody afterwards was that interested.

  13. I’m always impressed by the Turkey bashing on here when it was Turkey a year ago sending aid to the UK with PPE kits and ventilators when others were not selling any to the UK let alone donate , including the US and Israel. Which other country pokes Russia like Turkey in the entire west and gets on their face in Syria Libya Azerbaijan? None !

    Turkish military equipment has proven itself to take out Russian air defence, Chinese drones in battle. And now are building next generation of drones. Turkey has build its own corvettes and now frigates and soon destroyers which all are armed to the teeth. It has turned it’s LHD carrier to a drone carrier first in the world, and soon plans to build a fully fletched carrier with UK design or without. It’s TFX 5th generation jet is progressing fast after delays . Builds own submarines, tanks, Turkey has laser and energy weapons and ballastic missiles, air defence systems, building hypersonic weapons , has a space program. It has bases in the Balkans, The Gulf, North Africa , Central Asia Horn of Africa. Turkey is China largest competitor in Africa now . Turkey is not some joke hence why the UK takes it as a strategic ally serious when Europe is in serious decline

      • That’s nonsense , countries that share values and history have every right to build their own block that looks after its interest in this emerging multipolar world that includes the middle East that suffered a lot the past century and Africa too. They want their own voices heard. The EU has its block the UK wants the Commonwealth and some may accuse it of imperial dreams with their ” Global Britain ” ambition. China is being accused of trying to build an empire and Russia is dreaming of restarting a Soviet Union again haha And uncle Sam is wondering what will happen to his empire ? 🤔

        • The uk isnt going around invading territories as part of Global Britain though is it? Turkey is very much following Russia’s way of thinking by grabbing land in Syria and meddling in Libya. Its also following Chinas way of thinking with territories in the med and causing many tensions with Greece. All the while holding the EU to ransom for money in exchange for migrants, great country to be a rising power in the region.

          Fully appreciate in some ways Erdogan has stood up to Putin on a few occasions and then appears to work with him the following week, not sure if they have some weird agreement in the background but its rather surprising Putin has not given him a very public slap so far.

          • Maybe your clock starts with brexit , but the last I remember we invaded Iraq and destroyed Libya which ended in the death of millions, and the cost of that war is still being repaid by the treasury. Turkey was not the one that bombed Syria and caused the civil war there nor did it destroy Libya . It’s supporting in Libya the UN recognised government against a warlord backed by France who did war crimes .

            Syria like Libya was a stable country until it was destroyed by Europeans and the US. Turkey was not getting 1 refugee from Syria before that and now host over 4 million refugees as a direct result of the endless adventures of NATO members. Turkey has no interest in Syria other than stability and needs not a tiny piece of land. Turkey has created a buffer zone that houses millions of refugees that otherwise would head to Europe and those that caused problem dont appreciate the Turkish work there.

            And Libya let’s not even think about getting into Cameron war and Obama leading from the back famously. You can lecture army recruits teens but not those that saw what happened . Libya has been turned into a failed state by Cameron Sarkozy Obama. Let’s not act we have clean hands in the name of patriotism because history will judge everything

            Turkey in 2015 shot down a Russian jet due incursion into its airspace . The turks work with the Russians but confront them when it needs to, something we no longer have the balls for anymore other scream Russia Russia without any policy towards Russia . We no longer know how to handle big powers like Russia or China or the US even as we once used to like in the Thatcher era. Erdogan was in good terms with Trump Xi and Putin, played them, putting his national interest first rather than sucking up to powers as we do with the US constantly.

            Right now Erdogan is playing peace maker between Russia and Ukraine brewing war while the US is confused and the EU is hopeless and the UK missing from the world stage over a decade

          • One big flaw in the argument you have, the government the UK has now is not the government that invaded Iraq (by the hands of the USA) or the one that meddled stupidly in Libya (again at the hands of the USA). Both the US and UK governments have changed, something that is no longer allowed to happen in Turkey since Erdogan installed himself as a dictator.

            Turkey acting as a peacekeeper? You are having a laugh surely. Its movement into Syria as a ‘buffer zone’ is just propaganda its a blatant land grab, it would have went further if it wasnt for Russia/Iran.

            I neither stated it started the war in Syria or created it, however when the country was weak it saw a horrendous opportunity to invade which it did, it also created an even further tidal wave of refugees which it then used to leverage cash from the EU to prevent them being released. It may well have set up shelters/camps for the people now with EU money but it did nothing of the sort for years and used them as a bargaining chip.

            Libya yes is a mess, not from Turkey’s doing again I never said it was however it is complicating matters by sending forces in to secure oil/gas reserves something its also doing in a China eque style in the med against Greece.

            If Turkey is playing peacemaker with Russia why did it fight a 2 month war against it in Armenia/Azerbaijan?

            Also as you like to drag up the past and are adamant Turkey is not after a land grab, when is it going to return North Cyprus?

  14. If you are going to allow these comments to degenerate into base political conversations, at least have the sense to rename the site.

    • Point taken . Although it has to said that the use of military force is usually rooted in economic and political considerations which in their turn are influenced by history and cultural memory.

      • Of course that is true. Nota bene: I did say base political conversations. No problem with politics per se,

    • Some on here once other countries are mentioned get emotional biased unfortunately and use no logic , and the worst part is they are historically inaccurate.

  15. As long as you are going to allow political comments on a military website, I’m going to put in my two hundred pounds worth.

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