The UK is the first country in the world to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine for use.
MHRA has authorised the supply of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine for emergency supply under Regulation 174; Companies are reportedly ready to deliver the first doses to the UK immediately.
“The government has today accepted the recommendation from the independent Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) to approve Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 vaccine for use,” the government said.
“The vaccine will be made available across the UK from next week.”
The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is understood to perform even better than previously thought with 95% efficacy, this paved the way for regulators to grant an emergency licence and vaccination campaigns to begin.
Albert Bourla, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Pfizer, said in a news release:
“Today’s Emergency Use Authorization in the U.K. marks a historic moment in the fight against COVID-19. This authorization is a goal we have been working toward since we first declared that science will win, and we applaud the MHRA for their ability to conduct a careful assessment and take timely action to help protect the people of the U.K. As we anticipate further authorizations and approvals, we are focused on moving with the same level of urgency to safely supply a high-quality vaccine around the world. With thousands of people becoming infected, every day matters in the collective race to end this devastating pandemic.”
Who will get the vaccine
The NHS will start giving the coronavirus vaccine as soon as it is available. At first, the vaccine will be offered to people who are most at risk from coronavirus, before being offered more widely.
The vaccine will first be offered to:
- people who live in care homes and care home workers
- people aged 80 and over
- health and social care workers in England
A Department of Health and Social Care spokesman said:
“The NHS has decades of experience in delivering large scale vaccination programmes and will begin putting their extensive preparations into action to provide care and support to all those eligible for vaccination. To aid the success of the vaccination programme it is vital everyone continues to play their part and abide by the necessary restrictions in their area so we can further suppress the virus and allow the NHS to do its work without being overwhelmed. Further details will be set out shortly.”
There is one aspect of COVID that has astonished many scientists, and that’s the dramatic ramifications it has wrought across the globe. Sadly, this could reignite interest in germ warfare by those who only seek to harm? If proof were needed to demonstrate the effectiveness of a pandemic this was it. To guard against the use of germs by terrorists, a lot of medical countermeasures are surely going to be needed in the coming years to protect against new strains of COVID being developed?
I agree. I also see inspiration for the next James Bond film….
Not sure I’d pay to go and see James Bond sat on his sofa watching Netflix and interfering with himself…..
That’s most folks experience of Covid. 😉
I am of the opinion that this is already rather too close to the ‘germ warfare’ category for comfort. Bearing in mind the timing of the virus, the suspected origin and the category of people it affects worse, i.e. those who are old, those whom are already unwell and those who are obese. It doesn’t take much to look at the countries who have obese, aging populations and good healthcare systems (so able to significantly prolong the lives of people with underlying health conditions) to see who this would hit the hardest.
Pretty much every illness would affect those categories the most.
So just let them all die then ??????
Of course not. He was implying Covid was unleashed to target those groups, whereas they are always the most vulnerable to disease so it’s hardly evidence of a conspiracy.
I agree RobW. Are there any diseases that affect the young and fit bodied more than the old?
Spanish Flu is one that comes to mind. There are others though. Not all illnesses affect obese people either. Not wanting to repeat myself, I merely found the combination of all the factors I listed above to be somewhat eyebrow raising, especially within the context of germ warfare.
Lung problems can affect young and old, there are millions of people with respiratory illnesses not just caused by smoking, It’s these people that are at risk, whatever their age, as well.
I see people saying things like ” But It’s only killing Old and Ill people ” on other sites, that just horrifies me. 1.5 million and counting, poor souls.
Yes I have seen many comments like that, as if its OK to kill off the older generations before their time. Bet they won’t think like that when they are older.
Indeed mate.
COVID is an economic germ in the wrong hands and has possibly demonstrated a degree of discrimination? It’s almost a tailor made contagion and it’s that aspect that’s concerned me the most. I know it’s unlikely, but is it possible that it was a deliberate act on the part of some third party? China may have been the source but not the perpetrator, as it certainly did great damaged them too!
The thing I struggle with Is, assuming it was made deliberately, what government would be heartless/ foolish enough to release it on their own population? Maybe if they could limit the area the infection occurred in before it went international and then shut the borders? Still seems incredibly risky though. Only thing mitigating it would be a pre vaccinated population (which would be very suspect for the rest of the world), or enough power to keep it local with a vaccine pre developed for rapid roll out.
You are quite right though, the economic impact of this virus has been and will continue to be devastating. Whether that was by design or a happy coincidence can only be speculated on.
Strong economies allow strong militaries. Find a way to crash countries economies without wrecking your own and you almost guarantee a deteriation in their militaries without a shot being fired.
The thorny question that must be confusing the powers at be, is who pays for the increase in biological developments going forward. If it can be proved that the COVID-19 was in fact a test tube creation, would any future anti-COVID developments come under the MOD as it appears Cyber has, or the Department of Health?? Whichever way it goes, someone will need to find a huge sum of money, and what programmes will have to go to pay for it?
That’s the thing isn’t it? I read some article the gist of which was that some countries are looking to sue China for COVID, if this is true I very much doubt it will work and even if it did work it would be too late to use the money for COVID preventative measures.
IMHO the cheapest way to prepare a country for this sort of thing is to have a fit and healthy population. I understand previously in history this basic understanding of the correlation between population health and war fighting ability did lead to greater improvements in public health. Other than that, I do see this as a very good push for us retaining native manufacturing for items such as PPE and also ensuring our PPE stockpiles are kept at suitable levels and that this is routinely audited.
Unfortunately I cannot really see too many of these lessons being adapted due to COVID as there has been so much government disinformation around it the simple truth of items such as the above gets completely lost.
I always thought Ridley Scott was onto something with Prometheus. With mRNA vaccines now I’m sure 🙂
This is excellent news.
Just wondering why this is on an otherwise great Defence related Site ? …… It’s being done to death on every other FarceBook and Twatter site.
Because aren’t the military going to be involved in transporting it as well as setting up vaccine clinics for it. I’m only assuming skip.
Yes, I agree with this. Have said so before. Although the comments from the people on this site are usually fantastic, or spark interesting conversations, so from that angle it’s not too bad.
Because if you look at the clues, you can see that western civilisation is possibly the most fragile civilisation ever to exist in regards to bio security and resilience. A quite frankly middle of the road novel seasonal respiratory virus has shatter our economy and paralysed our society for a year.
ive spent a lot of time considering pandemic risks and mitigation, what has happened with Covid-19 has really shown that western society would not manage a really significant pandemic.
key character of covid, Natural R03, case mortality rate 1% (ish), seasonal respiratory virus, impacts mainly of the frail elderly (not economically active).
if you think that most infectious diseases have a natural R0 of 12 to 18, the most deadly a cases mortality rate of 70%, many are not seasonal or impacts more in the young. So Change any of covids key characteristics up a peg, say give it the case mortality of SARS-Cov1 of around 10% and think very hard about how our county would have managed with half a million deaths on a couple of months and a population to scared to leave their houses…or something with the the R0 of measles…..everyone would have got the disease before we even started lock down….7 million people needing a hospital bed and 1% of them dead all in the space of a month.
The next pandemic could end the western nations as major geopolitical powers. Simpler societies that have less complexity and movements ( of goods and people) are more resistant to pandemic risks to its wider systems. Medieval European nations managed to retain civilisation and structures even with the loss of up to 60% of their populations over a few years.
As a final note we are going to be living with covid for ever more….managing a new major seasonal respiratory virus…the cases, hospital admissions,deaths, long term health implications and the need to spend money on more hospitals beds and vaccines programmes Will sculpt our society for ever ( there is no end to managing a nasty seasonal respiratory disease, at best it will move from the pandemic phase be like the flu and just need the mobilisation of massive resources and kill 10k of our population every winter). The Victorian and Edwardian ages were marked by how our society changed to manage the major infectious diseases of those ages….they are still there waiting for us to stop spending money on water, Sanitation, housing and childhood vaccines and Imms…the 2020s-3030s will be defined by the re sculpture of the eastern world to manage respiratory diseases.
A sobering post Jonathan.
A bit too gloomy a view I think. Agree on public health; clean water, sewers etc. Our failure to manage covid was really due to neglect of well understood infection control measures; clean hands, don’t get in other people’s face and quarantine, Only 1/4 people testing positive did the self isolation. Did they not understand the importance of this or did self interest trump community spirit? Are too many people living hand to mouth? Why did gov not trust local public health strucrures? Is this a reflection of institutionalised mistrust between central and local government; of a vertically broken society in fact? Or had decades of dependence on antibiotics and flu vaccination, an explosion in food outlets and cuts in central government funding of local authorities resulted in too much focus on food poisoning and complacency in regard to infectious diseases? There’s a lot to learn out of this covid ‘experience’.
Regarding overpopulation, Europe is in fact ‘dying’, failing to produce enough babies to replace the elderly who pass away. The continent actually needs immigrants. They have babies and create wealth. Think about it man + woman plus 2 children = an r rate of exactly 1. Assume a few deaths from disease and accidents and you get the magic 2.4 children for sustainable population. This is not rocket science. BPAS is reporting that women are requesting abortions because there is no child benefit for the 3rd child. This is a mistaken policy.
In the meantime every cloud has a silver lining. I suggest retraining redundant Debenhams staff as customs import / export clerks since it looks like we are headed for a no deal Brexit, 🙂
Hi Paul it’s not so much about being gloomy. I’ve saved many a life because I assumed and planned for the worst. I’ve also seen and investigated many deaths caused in the main by the human unwillingness to accept that the worst is just as likely an outcome as the best. But the difference is “not planning and thinking” about the best never leads to death and misery, but not thinking aboutbelieving the worst can happen and planning for it does. I admit I have a very different view than most but that’s because I have seen more than most could imagine. I have to walk into rooms of people and try and tell them that their systems and practices may kill people. I’ve also had to personally walk into many a room and tell people “ that thing you never conceived could happen on your watch just did and x people are dead or have had significant harm”. I’ve also had to face the relatives and tell them why and balance risk that I know could cause harm and death either way I go. It’s a jolly life I’ve lead, but one thing I known “IT” will happen and the difference between killing people and saving people is preparing for the things you hope will never happen. And one thing my over educated brain is trained to do is to review complex systems and find that which will allow a failure and kill you.
I probably am gloomy but that’s what seeing 30 years worth of preventable deaths does for you.
The title was hardly misleading, you didn’t need to read the article if it doesn’t appeal to you.
Oh please Andy, it was a perfectly fair question to ask on a Defence site. It’s not like I bother to reply to all the Political rubbish that gets thrown about on here.
Not these days…anyway 🙂
You are right mate, I’m back here and I’d like to just get on with you and everyone else. So If it’s OK with you, I’d like to say sorry for my previous comments towards you and move forward. This is a great site with some brilliant posters, all mixed in with a dash of humour, Passion and Expert Knowledge. Personally I had my third wake up call earlier in the year with a ruptured Intestine, I’m happy to just be back on here and able to post. You OK with that ?
Sorry to hear about your intestines! Serious illness does tend to put things into perspective. At least you didn’t get Covid 19 to go with it!
I would not live after contracting that , due to Sarcoidosis ….. 32 years living with it now. 30% capacity as I type. The Diverticulitis was a real shock, 12 days not eating a thing, with 9 days not having a dump, all mixed up with 10 days of heavy dose Laxatives…… The Rupture was just a relief in many ways.
Sarcoidosis you say, snap, I’ve had it for 17 years. Started with crippling arthritis and lung issues, these days it’s affecting my eyes and arthritis popping up all over the shop…. The gift that just keeps on giving!
I’m lucky, It’s only my lungs, you are really unlucky to have it in other parts too. It’s something no-one really knows about but many many of us have it.
You are very unlucky to have it in those places. It’s horrible.
Mine originally presented as atheists, then hit the lungs. I used to do a lot of running and one day my ankles blew up for no apparent reason, whole body arthritis rapidly took hold and a bad cough.
I’m sure you had the same issue, it takes a lot of medical head scratching before its diagnosed and and they fill you full of steroids.
I was bad for a year before it finally eased off and it’s left me with rolling arthritis. It comes as goes and shifts about….
Interesting with the Covid vaccine, I was always told not to have the flu jab every year, because it triggers the immune system, this can ‘potentially’ trigger Sarcoidosis, as it’s effectively a runaway immune response by its nature…..
I am going for the Covid jab though Captain, it’s worth the risk, roll the dice mate!
Ten years before doctors actually diagnosed it, Open lung Biopsy and the thing up your nose into the lung with a sort of pliers to nip a bit ! then about 8 years on steroids, As you say mate, I don’t have the jab but will this one. For anyone interested, I personally have less Oxygen than someone standing on top of Everest without a bottle. it’s interesting how you can adapt though.
Good question; perhaps because covid is the enemy of all mankind which can only be defeated by ceasing to fight amongst ourselves; at least for a while. Hands, face, space while we wait for a vaccine developed by Turkish immigrants to Germany working with a US company; arrogant Europeans and Americans being taught a lesson in social cohesion by Asian nations such as South Korea……
Thank you President Trump! So sad America believed all the lies the media told about you. God help us all from leftist Biden and his gang. Ugh
Sorry Dan, not following, not sure what Trump had to do with the US vaccine, more to do with with the excellent US Scientific community??
Excellent news all round all round chaps and the UK vaccines is hot on its heals….
Wait for the conspiracy theories from the fu**wits, its going to be fun…
“I wont take it because the government is injecting me with tracking nanobots”
Personally, I would say, absolutely fine, don’t take it, but you cant travel abroad or send your ‘Typhoid Mary’ Children to school if you don’t…
President Trump had a lot to do with the speedy development of the vaccine. If you get your news from the BBC, Sky News, or CNN you wouldn’t know anything about Operation Warp Speed, Trump’s plan to get a vaccine by January 2021:
Fact Sheet: Explaining Operation Warp Speed | HHS.gov
Yaaaawn!!! thank god Biden is in and introduce a little common sense to the brain dead.
And you don’t think Biden would have done exactly the same? (While simultaneously supporting covid measures and wearing masks? Oh and not deliberately trying to start a race war or deny democracy?)
Are you a Trump support or a republican pkcasimir?
He was also right about disinfectant. The citriodol eucalyptus spray the British army were using when they were distributing PPE was tested by Porton Down and it does actually kill the covid virus.
So does soap and water, cleaning handies and good enviromental hygiene are very underrated, just look at how men wash their hands ( or don’t ) in public toilet. How many people sneeze into their hands and wipe the snot into their pocket to something else…spitters, sneezers, None hand washers….just cus we have modern medicine does not mean you can wander around leaving yourself and others open to infectious disease…
Indeed. My girl friend tells me women are no better. Young Hand washes for young women are she says a cursory business. This virus survives for days on hard surfaces like door handles, toilet flush handles, stair rails, plastic packaging….thats why supermarket checkout staff suffered badly. They scan lots of padkages. Young restaurant staff not taught how to clean a table properly…clean cloths were not the norm. Hospital porters with unkempt long hair and plimsoles…and so it goes on.
Yes but they don’t wear plimsoles for long, just until their toes get run over by a trolley fully loaded with 20stone patient, oxygen cylinders, monitor, defibrillator and ventilator all being powered along by the ED staff nurse who really does not want be in the corridor for any longer than they have to…..and will not give any sympathy for the idiot with a now broken toe or two….
I can assure you i wouldn’t be allowed to do my Job Wearing Plimsoles for the reasons Jonathan has stated,and where Hair Hygene is Extremely Important where Covid is concerned ive yet to Encounter any Staff with Long Hair that is ‘Unkempt’.
Glad to hear it. I have no reason to doubt the source of my information, a long time NHS employee, though now retired. We must hope that your experience and standards are the trending norm.
Fascinating pk…..Operation Warp Speed….did they come up with an operational Star Trek Tricorder as well. I bet your trusty Fox News hasn’t reported on Donald’s ‘Operation I’ve superglued my arse to to the oval office desk and I’m not leaving’. Not that Fox News want to report on the old loser these days 🙂
oh don’t stop there John. How about use the NHS, Go to a public place, be employed in the UK etc.
We have been at war with this virus. We now need to consider that fact that we might have got off lightly. Do we need to eliminate viruses once and for all?
Bar them from the NHS and public places hmmm.
Well if you think that’s needed Mark, why not! Ha….
Joking aside, the general stupidly of some people has been breathtaking throughout the outbreak, remember the burnt G5 masts in Manchester …. Good grief, there’s good old fashioned thick as sh*t …. Then there’s that!!!!
I wonder if some ‘internet Influencer’ told these people on Facebook/ Mumsnet etc that the answer to Covid19 was up their own arses, they would all disappear up them? We can only hope….
They say 25% won’t have the vaccine, seems about right…..
These is no State engineed virus here, or James Bond vilan at play, it’s quite simply down to the human population doubling in 50 years and now at an unsustainable level for our poor bloody planet.
Overcrowding in some countries and living in close company with animals in unsanitary conditions means viruses will jump species and mutate on occasion….
It’s likely to happen again, there’s an inevitably to it…
Not really possible to eliminate it. HM Gov scientist said as much yesterday. We have to live with it. We will use vaccination, repeated if necessary of those over the age of about 55. The virus will circulate in the young and working age population who will catch it, recover snd probably acquire lifetime immunity. ( notwithstanding some with post viral debility) . Eventually as the older population die off the species as a whole acquires immunity which hopefully will be passed on in mothers milk to the next generation. Charles Darwin strikes again. Fight, adapt and survive to fight the next virus.
dan you’re a moron, **** off back to Breitbart.
So the only views that are valid are the ones that you approve of? And you have the cheek to call the other bloke the moron, time you grew up little boy and accept the fact that people are allowed to have a different view to you
Those aren’t views, it’s a bubch of lies and “alternative facts”. So why dont you grow up and realise that.
You’re a proper cockwomble
And you’re a proper prat.
Can. Anyone join in or is this a private fight..
Fell free to join in. Martyn seems to agree with Trump propaganda and doesn’t like when people dismiss it as the lies and BS it is.
Ahh you Trumpski supporters are so easily manipulated its seems ,but no surprise there lol!!
Nobody makes as much money as Donald Trump by being a moron. The working man in America voted for Trump because he fought for their jobs, Christians in America voted for Trump because he stood up for families. Obama made no attempt to confront the Chinese economic rape of the US. Trump put the problem of Mexican immigration back where it belongs, with the Mexican government who need to win their internal war with the drug gangs. Trump told Europe to start paying a fair share for their own defence. When Trump was elected the US was going south at a rate of knots.
Trump is Trump ,he is only there for Trump ,the rest is make believe and the shallow will follow ,sorry and try and back Trumpski claims with facts, I think you would find it hard to find ,unless you find some nutter on youtube or RT lol!!!!
He has done what he had done; lit the blue touch paper on the firework which a US society which has not dealt with its civil war.
Approved bypassing all prudence and rules we are entering in new dangerous territory.
If they fail, it is the end of the West and its political system.
Which rules have they bypassed?
The rules of the Time for a start.
All other vaccines take Time to be approved.
With knowledge about what does to birth and many medical situations.
Now we even have a new vaccine type mRNA.
Time is a teacher.
This is a very high risk bet.
What more of a Risk than Putin claiming to be the first with the vaccine
while only testing it on less than 30 people, who are you trying to kid lol!!!
Boris just can’t win can he! Come along Alex, let’s not be glass half empty, it’s good news, the UK is the first to get going with roll out…..
It’s the best Christmas present we’ve ever had!
Whoa! I don’t believe any rules were bypassed. All that happened was that the data from the clinical studies was passed from Pfizer to the regulator on a continual basis rather than being batched up at the end of the trial. So the regulator was able to do parallel processing of tasks and assemble results at the end, rather than single threading. Thank Pfizer for handing data over promptly and the team at the regulator for their flexible working practices.
Agreed although the other aspect was merging the phase 2 and phase 3 trials and that hasn’t bypassed any rules either as far as the final analysis is concerned. Phase 2 is a lot to do with financial rather than clinical considerations, do a smaller and less expensive phase 2 trial first and then pause to carefully analyse the results to determine whether efficacy and safety data looks good enough to go on to put the really big money on the table to run much bigger and more expensive phase 3 trials to collect the full data needed for approval. Many governments pre-ordering vaccines from the various candidate companies in advance of confirmation that their drugs will be safe and effective enough to get approval took away those financial considerations for the pharma companies involved so that they could go straight into the large phase 3 trials. Those pre-orders also allowed the companies to start “at risk” manufacturing of their vaccines as well presumably at little or no actual risk to their bottom lines.
All in all a triumph for both science and for (for once) bold and sensible national responses to fund this scientific work.
Do the pharma companies still have the weaving of legal responsibility due to side effects of these vaccines in their hands or not?
So the State and companies agree these vaccines have a potential higher level of risk.
Interesting Point,apparently our Government have Granted Pfizer a Waiver/Non Disclaimer for this Vaccine to avoid any Potential Legal Issues if there are Problems.
Good news. We have been told here in SA that there will be a short wait and see period before we commit to any particular vaccine. There are concerns about the strict conditions, particularly with regard to temperature at which this medicine must be transported. For some reason South Africans have been less seriously affected than those of you in parts of Europe and North America. Our relatively much younger population profile, natural immunities from exposure to a broad spectrum of diseases and perhaps our climate have combined such that we have not witnessed scenes like those in Northern Italy and New York earlier in the pandemic. I agree 100% with John Clark’s remarks regarding overpopulation. Virtually every major problem blighting the planet at present results from this far worse plague-the destruction of the environment,tensions over resources and migration,the quick spread of disease in various parts of the world-in fact the whole ‘Rat Syndrome’. You could ask any reasonably intelligent 8 year old what would happen if you kept adding more people into a single house and you would get the right answer, yet the so called cream of society in the form of our leaders just cant or wont tackle this, the NUMBER ONE problem, especially here in Africa.
Hopeless
Morning geoff.
I have been saying that for years with regards to the UK and wider immigration issue, but apparently I’m a racist for mentioning it!! For some reason when I lay out the consequences after 100 years there is silence.
A bathtub will overflow if too much water is put in it. Likewise a small country like the UK can only support so many. If the inflow of people in the form of migration/birth rate outnumbers the people emigrating/dying AND we have an ageing population too, game over.
I’m glad I won’t be around in 100 years to see the consequences.
Morning Daniele. Same page my friend. Halt and reverse population growth and all good things follow thereafter-the biggest issue facing mankind yet they(apart from you and I) cannot see it!!
Overcast, dull kak(Afrikaans for sh*t) weather here in Durbs today-rain and humidity in between!
Cheers
Overcast, rain and drizzle in Surrey.
And I have learned something. Heard that term “kak” mentioned many times in my life and never thought of its origin.
Now I know.
Cheers mate.
Same weather here, just got back from a Bike trip, not the nicest weather.
“Kak” is a word I used to hear a lot but never knew it’s origins, Every day is a school day on here !
lovely bit of drizzle, can’t beat it. I will take that over a full on rainstorm or baking hot sunny day any day of the week.
ha, you ride too then !
Daniele your basic premise is not wrong ( and it’s only racist if a person focus on specific groups or cultures) But unfortunately modern economies have a very big catch 22 when it comes to population.
1) modern economies must grow to survive, the modern economic model does not allow for stable or negative growth.
2) economies grow by increasing the population of economically active individual ( 18 to 67 year olds).
3) economically active elements of the population turn into inactive elements over time ( retirement and chronic illness). Increasing the burden on the economy…..move to point one and restart cycle.
Now this growth cycle is all very lovely apart from a Couple of universal rules of nature that quite frankly are irritating.
1) without a natural check on population growth ( that is: predators… we killed them all first,Food supply limitations…. we can use unsustainable farming to feed billions more than the world should support, diseases…. clean water, vaccines and public health thankyou) a species population will grow until its causes catastrophic damage to its environment and food supply, at which point the species will suffer a catastrophic loss of population. That’s as true for humans as it is for ladybirds, (who remembers 1976).
2) very large monocultures ( one species with lots of individuals packed in together) are specifically susceptible to disease ( even with all our cleverness) Our cities and food supplies are lovely big monocultures….to make is even more fun we link all our monocultures together with ( from the natural perspective) instantaneous travel of an organism between the monocultures ( why is this important, well the Black Death traveled around 4km a day across the medieval world, modern diseases can be moved across the globe in one day, from a food point of view we could have a disease hit a big percentage of our crops all in one go, the Irish potato famine happened due to dependence on a single mono-cultured food crop)
its not so much that I dislike the modern world ( it has after all created the greatest amount of wealth and freedoms for the greatest number of people ever). It’s just all my knowledge and experience tells me that we have build a monster tower of cards on unsteady foundations onto which we just keep on stacking more and more layers of cards because we don’t know what else to do, all the while knowing in our hearts it’s going to collapse sooner or later.
It is very interesting, I love the physiology and messaging around the new RNA messenger vaccines.
The reality is we are in such a mess that on balance we are taking a more risky approach with these new RNA vaccines. Covid is on its way to a second million dead in around a year and our mitigation’s are tanking the world economy (we need to have them or the virus will overwhelm our health systems will tank our economies anyway) so we are playing a high risk game and on the other side of the risk balance is the normal cycle for development of a vaccine which takes ten years…. we just can’t last with managing this virus in the way we have for the next decade so we’ve moved to a one year development cycle…the 1.5 million dead gives a reason for this risky behaviour.
The problem is that as individuals if the public think we have been a bit more willing to take risks around this vaccine Development/ introduction they will not take it.
This has lead to a blizzard world in which the mainstream Of health and politics is now engaged in a bizarre place in which we are not quite being full up front with the whole true and nothing but the truth. This has risks in of itself:
1) feeding the anti vaccine movement….because total honesty may impact on uptake and there is an information hole. this is because somethings we still don’t know ( 10 years of knowledge collection cannot be compressed to 1) and some things we suspect but don’t really want to discus.
2) if one of those things we don’t know or suspect come up after we vaccinate millions or billions we will be up shit creak without a paddle and trash all faith in vaccine programmes. Just look at the damaged caused to MMR uptake over decades by one very poor study being published.
so what don’t we know:
1) there are some possible medium to long term safety concerns around RNA messenger vaccines that needed answering in a long term study. Mainly around the possibility of inflammatory response and autoimmune disease. The question was in the published papers before covid and the development and safety studies have not answered this.
2) effectiveness, we still really don’t know how long the immune response will last, is it a year, two three or is it six months…. without knowing this you can’t plan your vaccination programmes or really understand your balance of risks harm of not vaccinating vs vaccination.
3) fragility, RNA is fragile stuff, it’s one of the reasons for the limits on the present licence that means it’s only practical to give in an acute hospital. We need to understand how often that fragility will cause failure in administration. We are always having to recall people for revaccination due to cold Chain failures in traditional vaccines and they are pretty robust ( you can even un plug your fridge for they evening and they will still be efficacious, happens all the time….cleaners and their hovers…what can I say).
is it wrong to get these vaccines out…. no…..covid is killing lots of people…should we be a bit more honest in our dialogue and trust the public to balance the risks….probably….could it all blow up in our faces…..unlikely….. but the possibly is there.
There is no guarantee in this world Johnathan, the vaccine has an element of risk, but far greater risks are being taken every day by all the obese / smoking / heavy drinking / pill popping etc people in the UK….
Roll out and let’s get back to normal by this time next year…..
He is pointing that the vaccine has more risk than other vaccines due to new technology and super short time span for testing.
Your answer is meaningless La Palissade you can say the same about getting out of your bed or staying in it…