The United Kingdom has offered to launch a major training operation for Ukrainian forces, with the potential to train up to 10,000 soldiers every 120 days.

The UK is no stranger to doing this, in 2015 the UK launched Operation Orbital which saw the UK train more than 22,000 Ukrainian personnel from 2015 until the full-scale invasion of Ukraine. The skills taught by British forces to Ukrainian troops during the seven-year programme enabled Ukrainian forces to launch a ferocious defence against Russia’s invasion.

The new programme would train forces outside of the country.

According to a statement:

“During a visit to Kyiv today, the Prime Minister told President Zelenskyy the UK could spearhead the landmark programme, which would fundamentally change the equation of the war, ensuring the Armed Forces of Ukraine have the resilience they need to be victorious in their fight for enduring peace.

The offer to President Zelenskyy came as the pair discussed the situation in Ukraine, and how the Ukrainian people continue to inspire the world with their incredible resistance.

The UK-led programme would train and drill the Armed Forces of Ukraine using battle-proven British Army expertise, allowing them to accelerate their deployment, rebuild their forces, and scale-up their resistance as they continue to defend their nation’s sovereignty against Russian invaders. International partners would be invited to host the programme, if the offer is accepted by Ukraine.”

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said:

“My visit today, in the depths of this war, is to send a clear and simple message to the Ukrainian people: the UK is with you, and we will be with you until you ultimately prevail. As Ukrainian soldiers fire UK missiles in defence of your nation’s sovereignty, they do so also in defence of the very freedoms we take for granted.

That is why I have offered President Zelenskyy a major new military training programme that could change the equation of this war –harnessing that most powerful of forces, the Ukrainian determination to win. Two months on from my last visit, the Ukrainian grit, determination and resilience is stronger than ever, and I know that unbreakable resolve will long outlive the vain ambitions of President Putin.”

It is understood that each soldier would spend three weeks on the training course, learning skills for the front line, as well as basic medical training, cyber-security and counter-explosive tactics.

Alongside the training offer, the leaders also discussed how the UK can play a pivotal role in ending the blockade of grain, say the UK Government.

The Government added that the UK has already pledged more than £1.3bn in economic and humanitarian support to Ukraine – including more than 5,000 NLAW anti-tank missiles, long-range multiple launch rocket systems, and artillery systems including 155mm Self Propelled Guns.

George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also works for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Farouk
Farouk
4 days ago

That 3 weeks mirrors roughtly what reservists have to undertake (Oh I used to be a PSI Permanent stressed instructor)

Last edited 4 days ago by Farouk
Airborne
Airborne
4 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

God don’t go there!!!

David Barry
David Barry
4 days ago

Foxtrot me, are there any soldiers able to be pulled off the line to be trained?

Bravo Sierra from a tosser of a PM.

Ukraine is our fight and we need to send the weapons the poor buggers need to fight it not this BS.

BobA
BobA
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

You are assuming that this is us forcing it on them rather than a request. If I was in the UKR Army and was asked what we needed I’d probably say ‘actually, if you could train our blokes to go to the front line that’ll enable me to release thousands of experienced NCOs to go forward.’ One thing the British Army is good at is training good quality soldiers with a limited budget, equipment and time. Also, we’ll get serious lessons from this about how to grow an Army that is combat capable, rapidly. One of the last jobs I… Read more »

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
4 days ago
Reply to  BobA

Yes I suspect this would be allied to the news that they are considering conscripting another 300,000 men into their army. From some of the stuff I have read too many Ukrainian and indeed foreign fighters are not getting this basic military training, vital if they aren’t to become cannon fodder. Surprised it wasn’t offered earlier considering the ongoing training we have provided since 2014.

David Barry
David Barry
4 days ago
Reply to  BobA

Was assuming nothing. It’s been stated they lack the promised over reach of Western Arms. Simples.

David Barry
David Barry
2 days ago
Reply to  BobA

Re read your post. Great post, thank you.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
2 days ago
Reply to  BobA

Actually believe this is a rational proposal. There is a general consensus in US military that the British military is a top tier organization in terms of personnel (approximately equal to US and Israel), but unfortunately often burdened by second class equipment and/or insufficient sticks of first class materiel. Believe the slogan was, “Lions led (occasionally) by Donkeys (and unfortunately too often equipped like beggars). Fortunately, there is eminently straightforward remedy for this situation–if it ever hits the fan in Europe or Indo-Pacific, simply arrange to deploy next to US units. Show up w/ appropriate requisition forms and the (supply)… Read more »

Steve
Steve
2 days ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

The US miltiary industry wouldnt be able to keep up with China. China has all the advantages, it has more natural resources, more people and way more active civilian factories that could be converted in time of war. The only question is how effective is the Chinese gear. We have found out over the course of the last 30 years that US gear hasn’t been as effective as advertised when first deployed, but combat experience has mainly fixed this, for example look at patriot during gulf 1 Vs it’s current state. There is still a lot of stuff untested, for… Read more »

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
2 days ago
Reply to  BobA

The other movie I was trying to recall was the Clint Eastwood flick entitled “Kelly’s Heroes,” perhaps even more appropos.

maurice10
maurice10
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

A bit acid Barry, this appears to offer, possibly the best training available anywhere? Maybe we should judge Boris more on his Ukraine initiative than that bloody party gate, it’s a far better way to burn energy than carp on endlessly about issues that have in terms of law have been dealt with.

David Barry
David Barry
4 days ago
Reply to  maurice10

Nope. He is an appalling individual. Best rid of.

DMJ
DMJ
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

Absolute drivel from you. You have made clear your political preferences on many occasions

David Barry
David Barry
4 days ago
Reply to  DMJ

The politics comes from his grand standing and his chancing the optics for his own future. He and his followers are doomed in Cumbria and Tiverton will give the Cons the wake up call they need.

DMJ
DMJ
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

Your first sentence describes politicians of all parties and at all levels. “Grandstanding” is word people use when the particular politician spouting does not wear their favoured colour rosette

Tams
Tams
3 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

Johnson is an utter tosspot and does need to go.

But he’s absolutely right on this (not exactly hard, but eh).

And as a fellow Cumbrian, but already in a non-Conservative constituency (set to be merged into one – urghhh), you’ve taken your bloody time!

David Barry
David Barry
3 days ago
Reply to  Tams

Sorry Tams.

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago
Reply to  DMJ

And your contribution is?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

On Ukraine I think he’s doing ok. How was Starmers curry with his 20 plus mates btw? And he’s not yet answered on the issue of mystery payments either I believe.

They’re all the same. I’d bet you within a few years a future Labour government will have ministers in the shit, just like this government and the last Labour one.

David Barry
David Barry
4 days ago

Danielle, he has answered the police. Mystery payments, I have no idea – travelling 4 hours a day just to work a shift, so I’m totally knackered at the moment, sorry.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

Cor! Take it easy mate. That is extreme!

Simon
Simon
3 days ago

The payment was a late filling issue and it was being donated to charity

Jack
Jack
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

So your plan is to send weapons to untrained Ukrainian soldiers ? SMH.

David Barry
David Barry
4 days ago
Reply to  Jack

Simplistic. Trade training takes how long?

Gordon Bain
Gordon Bain
3 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

in my case 3 years lol

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

I’m probably being too cynical but just look at his body language in the pic patting Zalensky while smiling into the camera I think we can see what his priority is. Just thankful in this case it at least hints as doing the right thing and being on the right side, but I simply can’t doubt some of his motives in so doing I’m afraid. Again I hope I’m reading too much into the convenient pr effort.

Sean
Sean
4 days ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

2 + 2 = 64,464,756 methinks…

Do you think Zelensky cares what Boris’ motives are so long as he keeps supplying Ukraine with it needs? 🤷🏻‍♂️
I’d rather have Boris in charge than any of those EU leaders who drag their feet over sending weapons to Ukraine.

David Barry
David Barry
4 days ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Agreed. Photo op.

DMJ
DMJ
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

As is every visit by any politician anywhere. You sa y you are standing for your local council, so will you not be trying to get local press coverage of your activities?

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago
Reply to  DMJ

¿Que?

George Parker
George Parker
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

Is it really our fight David. There are several peoples of different ethnic origins in Ukraine but none of them are British.
Unless you know something that has not been made public. I cannot think of another reason for us to be so heavily involved, other that a payback for Russia assassinations on British territory. Do you remember what Boris said while he was Foreign Sec.

Last edited 4 days ago by George Parker
JohnH
JohnH
4 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

George, don’t you think the Budapest Memorandum might have something to do with it?

George Parker
George Parker
3 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

I think that went out of the window when ethnic Russians were being persecuted by Ukrainian nationalists. Both in and out of local/national government.
If memory serves, the Budapest Memorandum was primarily about nuclear weapons and disarming former soviet states. It mentioned nothing about removing the right of self determination from the various ethnic groups.

JohnH
JohnH
3 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

George, I think it’s a good idea to acknowledge the real reasons for the Russian violation of the treaty, and not be taken in by the fabricated pretexts.

George Parker
George Parker
3 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

Real reasons. Pray tell John, what would they be?
With references if possible.

JohnH
JohnH
2 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

Well, there are many contributing factors, but essentially it’s down to just one thing, which is that Russia has been taken over by an evil megalomaniac. I do wish that we could introduce mandatory annual mental health checks for all national leaders – indeed all politicians, in order to prevent this sort of thing in the future.

George Parker
George Parker
2 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

I’m certainly no fan of Putin, but he is just part of the problem. Something of a puppet for the real power in Russia and Ukraine for that matter, their very corrupt oligarchy. Including those in Ukraine that have direct and dubious links with Americas first family. Mental health checks sound like a very good idea, long overdue. But in my humble opinion, anyone looking to make a career in politics, is precisely the type who should be banned from it for life. Failing the megalomaniac mental health test at the first hurdle. I would also add, that before they… Read more »

David Barry
David Barry
4 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

It is totally our fight but we need SMEs in there not a clown like Johnson.

Derek
Derek
3 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

A Clown? Twice became London Mayor, then Leader of the Conservative party, then Prime Minister. How are YOU doing?

David Barry
David Barry
3 days ago
Reply to  Derek

I’ve been casted for the master of clowns but someone beat me to it.

George Parker
George Parker
3 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

I disagree. We should be involved with finding a solution to the problem and preventing genocide. Ukraine is very similar to Yugoslavia, with the same tensions and likely outcomes.

Tams
Tams
3 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

The solution is Russia being completely pushed out of Ukraine, and ideally domestic upheaval there that sees Putina nd his cronies gone (hanging from lampposts or not I don’t care).

George Parker
George Parker
3 days ago
Reply to  Tams

“Russia.” So, what about the majority ethnic Russians living in Luhansk and Donetsk Peoples Republics?
More ropes and lampposts or just camps and gas chambers.

BTW I appreciate your fully committed gung-ho approach.
In the perfect world I’d pay good money to watch the leaders of Ukraine and Russia fight to the death in the arena, winner takes all. The only weapons permitted being socks filled with sloppy dog turds.

There would be a negotiated peace within 24hrs of the declaration.

Gordon Bain
Gordon Bain
3 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

You need to read the lead-up to WW2….the parallels are obvious.

George Parker
George Parker
3 days ago
Reply to  Gordon Bain

Gordon, I have studied that period of history extensively. Also the Cold War and afterwards. Both while in and out of uniform. I agree there are similarities.
WWII was a direct result of the treaty of Versailles and war reparations. The current Russia v Ukraine conflict, has it’s roots in the end of the Cold War and the collapse of the USSR. However, the devil is in the details.

Gordon Bain
Gordon Bain
3 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

I’d say the conflict actually goes back pre-WW1. As you say there are a lot of details and Mad Vlad seems to have cherry picked his own to justify his special operation

George Parker
George Parker
3 days ago
Reply to  Gordon Bain

I’d agree, as nothing in history can ever be considered in isolation. As for cherry picking and spinning facts. That would be something every leader has done since our species was confined to Africa. It’s called politics. Mad Vlad is as much a product of the Cold War as the current conflict. Col of KGB trained and moulded by the STASI of East Germany. Little wonder he is a vile human being who takes great pride in his past. Something quite common in that region given he is not the only former USSR piece on the board. The similarities with… Read more »

Last edited 3 days ago by George Parker
David Barry
David Barry
2 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

There’s an interesting video on Youtube.

Apparently, the claim is that the Ukraine has huge gas reserves, bigger than Russia’s. That’s noteworthy.

However, Russia destabilising neighbouring countries is situation normal, but, should the Ukraine have these reserves this would reset the global order and Russia would be bereft of power. Not a bad thing.

Sean
Sean
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

And how exactly are they supposed to fight with weapons they’ve not been trained with? The old Soviet stocks round Europe are quickly running down and while the Ukrainians are doing good work these, they can do much better with modern NATO weapons.

David Barry
David Barry
4 days ago
Reply to  Sean

The training is not about specific to arms.

It is basic training and I taught 6 STANAG courses in Slovakia to Slovak officers, each over three months – it is tough for all let alone you must add military training as well.

Then, cyber training… wtf is that about? Some of the best IT programmers are UKR.

Sean, this was a photo op.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

The press weren’t allowed on the trip so the photos are taken by and released by 10 Downing Street. They will have sent out the photos that show Boris in the best possible light.
Boris went so fast to Ukraine as he needed to find out what the European leaders had said and to try and stay as the top Ukraine supporter.

Sean
Sean
4 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

Rubbish, you’re just letting your political bike for Boris warp your view of the world. You honestly think Zelensky is going to take time out, from running a war, for a pointless photo opportunity for a foreign politician. This training is being provided because it’s been asked for the Ukraine. The Ukrainians haven’t been reticent about turning things down previously that they haven’t asked for or wanted. The U.K. was previously providing training to the Ukrainian military pre-war through Operation Orbital and so is well placed to lead this this wartime training. Unlike yourself I don’t presume to know the… Read more »

Last edited 4 days ago by Sean
JohninMK
JohninMK
4 days ago
Reply to  Sean

“Rubbish, you’re just letting your political bike for Boris warp your view of the world. You honestly think Zelensky is going to take time out, from running a war, for a pointless photo opportunity for a foreign politician.” Conversely you are doing the same. Zelensky is not running the war, he doesn’t have the skills. He is however an excellent front man that has shown from his activities over the past few months that he is up for any opportunity to video link into every meeting around the World that he can and glad hand any politician that can help… Read more »

DMJ
DMJ
4 days ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Your condemnation of Russias invasion and the atrocities carried out by its armed forces is still awaited. Can we expect this soon?

Sean
Sean
3 days ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Not that I care what an apologist for war-crimes thinks but…. No I’m not. I think Boris is a deeply flawed character in both his private and public life. But he got two very important calls right:- • pumping money into the development and production facilities for the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine far in excess and way in advance of everyone else • pumping weapons into Ukraine as soon it became obvious Putin was going to invade. Pretty much everyone else wanted until Putin’s tanks crossed the border. I recognise that life is rarely black and white, except of course for… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
3 days ago
Reply to  JohninMK

He has proven to be excellent and Putin has proved not to be! Well said troll boy! And now you are back any condemnation of Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine?

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
3 days ago
Reply to  JohninMK

So please enlighten me as to who is running the war. And for gods sake don’t say Biden.
It is essential for Ukraine to keep the invasion at the top of everyone’s priorities so they can get what they need.
It only more countries would punish Russia for its actions. If putin invades another country that didn’t support the efforts to punish Russia I hope they don’t look the west’s way for help.
Balls in Russia court. It can withdraw to its own borders which aren’t and never have been under threat and the war would stop.

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Well said.

Dern
Dern
3 days ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Hows’ that statement condemning Putins invasion coming along Tankie?

Gordon Bain
Gordon Bain
3 days ago
Reply to  Sean

Well said.

George Parker
George Parker
3 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

David, I’m assuming the type of training required mid war is somewhat different to peacetime NATO requirements. If we are taking sides and giving them SP90 etc. Some training will be necessary. The only advantage the Kiev Ukrainians have is the complex/advanced nature of the weapons we supply. Switching from old Red Army kit will take some time, even for the surviving experienced bilingual veterans. Not a job I would relish.

David Barry
David Barry
3 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

You’re not wrong. Some good comments have arisen from this thread joust. I never knew that their reservists had not been called up, if true. Taking them through training now by our and NATO partners could see them trained specific to arms and able to commit to the expected lull in the fight given the attrition on both sides, the Russians would be running on empty. Please tell Airborne to put his green back on,they’ll need good trainers. I remember the cold war ending dividend when lots of Russian speaking bods were lost; another capability gap, but, this country has… Read more »

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
4 days ago

Ukraine is suffering huge casualties at the moment and while conscription age men have been prevented from leaving the country only a relatively small number of reservists with key skills have been called up, the rest have been told to stay at home and wait for the call or join the volunteers who are organised into home watch like cells.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
3 days ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Huge casualties on the other side also though. While Russia can only use the weapons it has and the older stuff in storage, Ukraine is getting newer, better suited weapons all the time. Russia only has its soldiers that aren’t the best trained while Ukraine will hopefully be able to get more of there new forces trained better. Only time will tell

Rob
Rob
4 days ago

Some obvious Qs here.
Will this be in Poland or the UK?
If in the UK, will this be through UK Trg Regiments?
If so what impact will this have on UK training?
3 months basic + 1 month special to arm?
Does this include officer & NCO training?
If other countries do the same then Ukraine will not only secure replacements for units already deployed but also be able to create new Bdes and even divisions.

Tarnish
Tarnish
4 days ago
Reply to  Rob

Rob, reading between the lines I would say the choice of the word “Spearhead” says it all. UK instigates initial setup, NATO partners and future NATO partners help where they can. Could be a very useful exercise for all concerned, as long as it goes ahead with speed and not too much dithering by politicians looking for a phot op.

Last edited 4 days ago by Tarnish
Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
4 days ago
Reply to  Tarnish

His words certainly suggested it would be in bordering countries as he said he was seeking partners in the program. Poland for the most part I suspect as they and Ukraine have very close historical links and already at the forefront of support. Will enable great support to the training too as tbh they would be amongst the most reliable and committed NATO fighting forces in a conflict with Russia.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
4 days ago
Reply to  Rob

Three weeks of basic training, cyber and first aid.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago
Reply to  Rob

What a shame they cut the number of ATRs.

Is there even capacity to expand our phase 1 and 2 set up?

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
4 days ago

They were providing the same training mission until a few months ago.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
4 days ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Indeed why I can’t help but be a little cynical about this announcement and timing. At least by regurgitating existing or pre existing programs won’t do any harm and keeping up the noise of support is important. What are the 155mm artillery it states we are supplying? AS-90 I presume unless we are acting as middleman.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
4 days ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

M109 withdrawn from Belgian service and sold to a Belgian arms dealer who was offering it on the international arms market. We bought it, refurbished it and now in process of delivering to Ukraine.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Yes, I was thinking regards putting them through phase 1 in the UK with our lot.

Airborne
Airborne
4 days ago

Thinking long term it’s possible that we can train the new toms to a certain level in order to get them forward and replace the more combat experienced blokes (and females) off the front line and develop them as JNCOs/SNCOs in compressed timeframe cadres! This war is long term now and we need to be planning for it mate!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Agreed.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
4 days ago

I saw that Poland is over in South Korea having talks about getting kit. K2 main battle tanks, KS21 Ifv and the K9 artillery system.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I don’t know anything of those systems other than what I read here, but if they are that good and the price is good why not? The K9 looks like an M109 to my eye. I thought Poland were getting Abrahams? K2s as well???

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
3 days ago

For the artillery the polish use the K9 chassis with the AS90 braveheart turret with the nexter gun. The article said they could be looking to get more chassis’s to mount the current turret on or purchase the whole South Korean system. The main battle tank is being called K2p I think. P standing for Poland. So could well be seeing an Abrams and K2p fleet. Very interesting. I think the AFV is the 25t KF21 that the Koreans currently use. There was also talk of looking at the heavy 37t redback model that was offered to Australia. It could… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Ha! 3 months ago.
They were waiting til 2028 I hear before 1st deliveries of FMFP! I’ve read it may be sped up slightly.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
3 days ago
Last edited 3 days ago by Monkey spanker
Dern
Dern
3 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Hey Airborne, hope you’re holding up well after CGS kink-shamed your regiment.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Dern

😆

Airborne
Airborne
2 days ago
Reply to  Dern

A few careers are now on hold for sure 😂👍! But they got away with it the last 29 times, quality Colchester ladeeeeee 🤮

Airborne
Airborne
2 days ago
Reply to  Dern

And I can’t think of many Battalions taken off a long planned spearhead exercise just through banging a local lady. Although a few lads misbehaved on the last overseas ex and CGS has had enough! Just imagine the shit the Bde Commander must have given the CO 🤬😤💩. I remember a long long time ago something similar happened at Monty lines in the Shot, regular lady popped onto camp, however boyfriend in tow, short drunken while later the lads tried to launch him over the razor wire….didn’t end well for anyone 😂😇

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago
Reply to  Airborne

Inagine the shit the Brig got!

Your Brig got an interview without coffee when NINE MP were put in The Cambridge over a weekend in the early nineties.

I’d say good drills to the lads in Colchester but more as a question… PARA being PARA.

In these times, we need 3 Bns of PARA with supporting arms, ready to go.

A fully equipped and supported Commando would be essential too.

Thoughts?

David Barry
David Barry
3 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

The worry is those experienced NCOs have been attrited.

Should this be a long term war, man management is an important facet.

Hopefully, the cadre can be developed and then create unit cohesion with inexperienced ‘Toms’ Airborne.

Airborne
Airborne
2 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

Agreed as Russia has reared its Nazi head in public and all free countries will need to be prepared for the long haul mate, for sure!

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago
Reply to  Airborne

Just replied to an early comment, we need a Bde of PARA now, I know 1st are reassigned, 4 and 10 was/is AR, so choose a number, or bring back a Royal Irish Rangers Bn – we were warrier than you!

Andrew
Andrew
4 days ago

It’s a good start. In one of the other threads last week I was arguing we should have been doing something like this from day 1. Despite doing better than some other countries I think the UK has been doing far too little far too slowly.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
4 days ago
Reply to  Andrew

Agreed this seems to be a vital commitment after the initial resistance prevailed so why only doing it now? Seems to be a mix of competing with other leaders. Is it’s yesterday combined with the fact we have little new physically we can now offer. So a sudden investment in training looks good shall we say in the circumstances I guess to show we are still doing our bit and keep the necessity in the news.

Mark Franks
Mark Franks
4 days ago

Watch and shoot, watch and shoot. It can be done.

Farouk
Farouk
4 days ago
Reply to  Mark Franks

Left out:
“Targets will fall when hit, carry on”

Mark franks
Mark franks
4 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

UNLOAD cock, hook and look.

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen
4 days ago

I would like to know why we can’t, or seem reluctant to, supply Warriors or AS-90s. Yeah, they aren’t perfect, but better than the absolute nothing that Ukraine is getting from Germany despite asking for Leopards and Marders.

Andrew D
Andrew D
4 days ago

BJ sending more Rocket systems and 155 Artillery guns AS90s I guess.But do worry about our stocks going down .There again think that speaks volumes for us all 🙏

JamesD
JamesD
4 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

3 M270 and 20 2nd hand Belgian M109s,our stocks were already depleted I wouldn’t worry about them going down any further. Just send anything we have left and rebuild after.

Andrew D
Andrew D
4 days ago
Reply to  JamesD

Live and hope 👍

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen
4 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Can’t be AS90s, we haven’t sent any, Wallace ruled out doing so in this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/apr/25/uk-military-aid-to-ukraine-could-rise-to-500m-mps-told

“Wallace indicated that the UK was looking at supplying Brimstone ground-based missiles that could be used to defend Odesa against any seaborne invasion, but he ruled out giving Kyiv the UK’s dated AS90 artillery”

Dated, my backside, still pretty modern by standards of half the stuff Russia has been using so would be pretty useful, Warrior too, maybe even offer an upgraded Challenger 1 or basic export variant of Challenger 2 considering we’re about to shelf most of them.

Last edited 4 days ago by Christopher Allen
Andrew D
Andrew D
4 days ago

That’s right Christopher Wallace did rule it out ,however ,at the end of this Artcle BJ does mention sending 155mm guns which to me I can only think of AS90s don’t think we have any other type.🤔

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen
4 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

I would like to an official source on that. The only Self-propelled artillery I have seen reported being used in Ukraine was donated by Norway. Not seen any AS-90s. I wonder if the government meant the 105mm L118 artillery.

Rob
Rob
4 days ago

The UK MOD has bought 20 M109 155mm SP guns from a Belgium arms dealer, refurbished them and is in the process of shipping them to Ukraine. Ukraine can already operate the guns as they have a Battalion of ex-Norwegian guns already in theatre.

Andrew D
Andrew D
3 days ago
Reply to  Rob

Thanks for that update 👍

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
4 days ago

Its 20 M109 bought from a Belgian arms dealer and refurbished by UK. Belgium at one point had just under a couple of hundred M109 mainly A2 the same as the 60’s vintage A2/A3 ones the UK withdrew and sold to Austria when it bought the AS-90. Belgium updated around a third of their total to the A4BE standard but have divested most of theirs over the last couple of decades to the secondary/scrap market, a lot picked up by Brazil and Indonesia. BAE have upgraded many A4 to A5 by fitting a longer barrel increasing range, and larger engine… Read more »

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen
4 days ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Okay, thank you for the update. Has the gov provided an explanation as to why they couldn’t just take and upgrade the AS-90s we have wasting away in storage?

Simon
Simon
3 days ago

CAESAR from France as well

Nestor Makhno
Nestor Makhno
2 days ago
Reply to  Simon

Careful Simon, most people on here hate the French nearly as much as they hate the Scottish.

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago
Reply to  Simon

So a great video on Youtube last night. It appears it is being put to very good use.

They just need more.

Simon
Simon
3 days ago

were are you planning on getting Challenger 1 from ? The only ones left are in Jordan

david featch
david featch
4 days ago

Boris should offer the same to Putin if Putin is willing to stop the war and go back to pre-2014 borders.😂

Paul.P
Paul.P
4 days ago

Boris looking after his election prospects again. No doubt a good idea but the Ukrainian soldiers defending Sievierordonetsk need tanks and artillery.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Which they are getting, it does not need to be us who supply them if we can offer other things too on top of the previous.

I’d rather BJ be looking after his election prospects by getting a bit of grandstanding in than be like the German and other leaders hiding and looking after their Russian fuel supplies or Macron who is more interested in offering olive branches to to a dictator like Putin but makes no such gesture to his allies in Britain.

Paul.P
Paul.P
4 days ago

Not in anything like the numbers required Daniele, or quickly enough. The only person Boris cares about is Boris

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

You could say that about just about every politician in existence. Whether Boris is a self centred buffoon ( yes, he can be, and I support him on some things ) or not is irrelevant to what is on offer in this case adding to the earlier assistance. Perhaps his detractors would rather he crawled into his box and let the EU leaders act like the big cheeses on Ukraine? I already know the answer. Earlier in the Ukraine crisis I recall a Finish politician was sniping at Britain’s contribution vs the EUs. They all do it, Macron was trying… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
4 days ago

Actually I am Boris fan; he has made the ‘right’ call on a number of issues i.e. put pragmatism and people before money. This is the reason he is in trouble with his own party, for not following ‘conservative values’. To maintain his credibility with his right wing he has to demonstrate he is a hard man on things like immigration and Brexit. Hence we put up with the xenophobic Patel and also why he has to make a prompt photo stop visit to Kyiv since the (evil empire) EU have just offered Ukraine EU membership candidate status. So we… Read more »

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Latvia closed her borders with immediate effect, employees worked from home at the beginning of February 2020.

Bluffer buffooned his way through the early months and 40,000 pensioners lost their lives as well as many more as the Convict differed over what to do, but, the airports remained open, and British people died.

Simon
Simon
3 days ago

“How many Tanks and guns have the rest of the EU or other world nations offered, like Spain, Italy, Germany, France?”

There is a pretty comprehensive list on Wiki on who has donated what. Also some country have donated cash to buy weapons rather than supply them. There has also been a number of requests from the MOD to industry about the ability to supply/source various items which may be partly related to this

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Simon

Hi Simon. I know! My meaning was suggesting that those countries had assisted somewhat less than the UK materialy, despite the angst in some quarters over a BJ photo op.

Never mind the intelligence side through 5 eyes that as an anglosphere nation we are privy to, that would also be up shit creek the moment the SWP, Corbyn, Guardian BJ hating leftists get in.

Simon
Simon
3 days ago

The link to Wiki is useful one for other poster on here. I get the impression there are other on here (not you, I might add) who seem to be more interested in having a who can piss bigger comparison, rather then what the equipment is actually being used for in Ukraine. The issue of Corbyn being prime minster and 5 eyes is an interesting one (not that he would have got in, as he was unelectable) You do have wonder how much prime minster/minster involvement in it there is (New Zealand for example being a top tier member). There… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Simon

Yes, there are Tier 2 and Tier 3, though what they are given will be minimal compared to the bilateral sharing between the Anglo nations. Agreed a PMs involvement will be minimal day to day , although I’d read Thatcher was an avid devourer of intell. It is Corbyn’s views that would have made the Americans take notice and threaten the relationship. What if he’d withdrawn us from NATO or told the US to vacate their UK locations? Although he is no longer opposition leader it’s never far below the surface with that lot, which will always worry me. The… Read more »

Farouk
Farouk
3 days ago
Reply to  Simon

Simon, Your point about Corbyn is interesting regards his Marxist links. Today I’ve just read that the Teachers and NHS unions are looking at going on strike in line with the rail unions. What hasn’t been made public knowledge is that a large number of the RMT (As well as other union leaders) are openly Marxist , (Despite the huge salaries they receive) openly support the Russian invasion of the Ukraine, which has me thinking I could this be a plan of action by Moscow in which to remove the British Pro Ukr government from power and replace it with… Read more »

Simon
Simon
3 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

Hi Farouk TBH as I said Corbyn was unelectable, my wife is a union rep and she said at the time he will never get in, he has his own little fan club, but there are lots of union members who will never vote for him. he had trouble with large groups of his own MP’s most of the time which is never a good sign. I find it unlikely that we are look at some sort of general strike. The RMT are pretty militant and are not happy about the governments plans, but the rest of them are unlikely… Read more »

David Barry
David Barry
2 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

It’s not good for Labour that they are equivocating about the rail unions and strike action. It is complex but inflation is rocketing and people need more money, and yet, average £44k per year on the railway is damn decent money. However, it was Thatcher who opened the tunnel and suddenly Brit drivers wanted parity with the French drivers, Major privatised the railways and drivers used the disjointed system to gain huge salaries. Honestly, 4 hours travelling, 5 days a week, full shift, getting home around midnight, for min wage, I think they are on a good gigg and Labour… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
2 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

I’m in total agreement David. I’ve been a Signalman for 21 years and we have had lots if above inflation pay rises in that time. Drivers get even more. I see no justification for strike action myself.

Have you considered trying for a signalmans role yourself?

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago

The Cumbrian Coast needs automation and subsequent loss of jobs, however, we also need higher line speed to enable far better connectivity to rest of the country.

Applied to clean trains overnight at Barrow – didn’t get a look in.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
2 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

As a rail worker, and RMT member, I can confirm that is true.

And for people’s interest, not all of us railway workers are striking next week.
I myself see it as politically motivated.

David Barry
David Barry
2 days ago

Now, now. Some of us are nice 😉

David Barry
David Barry
2 days ago

That last paragraph is the first key.

One could wish for the systematic elimination of every RusAF Arty Regiment. Give the barstewards the good news and I wonder if they would fold like a pack of cards. EndEx.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
2 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

Slava Ukraini mate. ✌

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago

Daniele, EU are divesting themselves of reliance on Russian energy – about several years too late, after the [email protected] Russia pulled on Latvia, but, it is happening.

Have a Youtube on what French CEASAR is delivering to Russian arms at the mo. 😉

JohninMK
JohninMK
4 days ago

US Grey Eagle sale to Ukraine has been ‘paused’ due to concerns over potential capture of advanced technology by the Russians.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-drone-sale-ukraine-hits-snag-sources-2022-06-17/

Airborne
Airborne
3 days ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Any condemnation of Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine yet? Do you support illegal war, invasion, rape, murder, looting and torture? It would seem you do, very sad, but at least have the balls to confirm and defend your sad shitty opinion. Coward.

Simon
Simon
3 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

I think you are going to have a long wait TBH. you do have to wonder why he keep posting these articles on here as they are out of step with 99.9% of the posters on this group

David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago
Reply to  Airborne

Keep pressing!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago

Interesting that the excellent post from Farouk highlighting the hypocrisy of the Guardian/Left/BBC/others over BJ, Covid and much else has been flagged and removed.

It probably came too close to the truth for some…..

Good job I printed off a copy of it for use later if needed.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
3 days ago

Is the British Army in danger of being over-stretched?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Only for the last 12 years once 8 deployable brigades have shrunk to 4.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
3 days ago

It’s not just operational deployments that constitute commitment; add in the Permanently Committed Forces (PCF), training tasks, MACA/MACM and Public Duties.

Frank62
Frank62
2 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

In every area apart from PR spin! Decades of cuts do that.

Rob N
Rob N
3 days ago

Love or hate Boris at least he is actually helping Ukraine and committing for the long haul. Until recently France and Germany were selling kit to Russia, its nice to see they are sending a few things to Ukraine too. But the UK better follow the French president’s advice a humiliate poor old Russia…..

Steve
Steve
2 days ago

There is an interesting interview with the former head of the army, I think on times radio YouTube. In it, it was clear he was confused how it would be possible to deliver that level of training. If however they are able to deliver on it, then it’s great news, could make a significant difference, assuming it’s backup with weapons. I just hope not another one of boris unrealistic broken promises.

The article itself states previously trained 20k over 7 years.

Last edited 2 days ago by Steve
David Barry
David Barry
1 day ago
Reply to  Steve

Airborne is putting his lid on again, and him and Farouk will sort it in double quick time.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 day ago
Reply to  Steve

It is unclear to me what the details are. Is it Phase 1 training, Phase 2 training (if so, to what arms and services)? Is it training to JNCOs, SNCOs, WOs, Officers? Is it training specific to equipment? Is it individual or collective training? Is it to be done in Poland, UK or somewhere else? Is it 10,000 doing a 120 day course, or 10,000 doing one or more shorter courses over that 120 days? Can Ukraine spare front-line soldiers to come out of the line for such training or is this training of new recruits or draftees or re-activated… Read more »