The US and the UK Governments are working out the details of an approximately $2 billion sales agreement for extended-range Chinook helicopters.
The UK indicated its intent to buy 14 new H-47(ER) units in a letter of offer and acceptance and reconsidered the set of costs associated with the purchase plan.
The Bloomberg report said Britain also wants to postpone the delivery schedule by up to three years due to pandemic-related financial concerns.
The agreement was confirmed in a letter from the UK’s embassy in Washington.
The letter serves as “acknowledgment that the UKG wishes to extend its Chinook Vertical Heavy Lift capability by proceeding with the acquisition of quantity fourteen (14) new build Chinook H-47(ER) helicopters,” adding “However, as a direct result of the worldwide impact of Covid-19, the UKG has had to reconsider the expenditure profile of this project.”
“Work is at an advanced stage to commence the procurement of a number of new Chinook helicopters to replace older airframes in the fleet,” a spokeswoman for the U.K. embassy in Washington said in an email here.
“The delivery schedule and exact costs for the new Chinook helicopters are to be confirmed, but it is expected delivery will be completed before the end of 2030.”
As was mentioned in the Review and in the Report published on here a few weeks back…. This is excellent confirmation of that. One could say “Bravo Two Zero”.
More like “Bravo November”, The sole operational Chinook during the Falklands,and still operational I believe.
Gordon Brown’s government was going to purchase 22 (2 to replace lost aircraft). I believe that Cameron reduced that to 12! So we are now two aircraft ahead…..but how many of the older airframes are to go?
I believe it is like for like – 14 to go, replaced 1 for 1.
That would seem probable…..quite a few airframes are significantly older than the pilots, though not on the B52 scale. Brown’s government also toyed with buying the Blackhawk….had they done so, we might be ordering Blackawks instead of a possible Leonardo chopper!
Yes the Blackhawk has Been mentioned along with the AW149 to replace the Puma
The Blackhawk airframe design is very old and there have been lots of improvements in newer airframes.
The black hawk purchase was considered probably 15 years ago now when we really needed them in Afghanistan. They would have cost peanuts compared to wildcat but obviously no benefit to industry. We basically could have cleared out all of our gazelles, lynx and pumas in one go and they would have been good for 25 years. It doesn’t make sense to go with them now though I think the government will go for the aw149 if they are made in the uk
Blackhawk is now outdated the new concept aircraft are to replace Black Hawk.
so we missed that boat but we didn’t have a requirement for Blackhawk.
like KFC everything American is not solid gold, as chlorinated chicken and growth chemicals in foods.
they all think there Captain America
Hmmm. Yes, Gareth Ainsworth the DS at the time announced that as a carrot for the closure of RAF Cottesmore and the cutting of 3 and 4 Squadrons of Harrier GR9. They did not order the Chinooks but kicked the can down the road for the next government. You could add the Boscombe Hanger Queens too, so overall I think we are doing OK as far as the Chinook force is concerned. The 3 operational squadrons and joint Puma OCU cannot operate the 60 odd the UK own at the same time, so losing some with newer replacements will not… Read more »
I hadn’t realised that we had collected so many. Still, 60 sounds a lot but in a serious conflict they would come in handy! Is BN the Falklands veteran….I’m surprised that she is still flying. Time for Hendon perhaps?
Oh in fairness to Brown’s government, he was hardly in office long enough to order a bag of chips….at least when it comes to MOD contracts!
He had plenty of time in office to release the choppers that were in storage and desperately needed by the guys in Helmand and he never did that either..
The SF eight that were not airworthy because of an avionics cock-up you mean? That was a mess from the start, but was certainly not a quick fix by any means. So, release them from storage so that they could fly into mountains? Still, I suppose you could always blame the pilots!
They did that with Mull of Kintyre. Scandalous.
Disgraceful by any standards….no wonder the MOD has such a great reputation! I’m inclined to support the Mekon and advocate a complete clean sweep for that bunch!
Indeed Daniele. We visited the site a few years back, where it went down. Sad spot. You can see the Antrim coast there on a clear day
That one still has a lot of spooky question marks over it.
Your last sentence is probably the daftest Iv’e seen you come up with. A young man died because there were no helicopters to pick him up. Another friend of mine was also in Helmand and the constant complaint was about Blair and Brown, who dragged us in, weren’t willing to put up the money for more helicopters and better armour on the ground.
Thank-you Geoffrey, I am quite sure that HM government could have done much more than they did. Not taking us into a war that we were ill-prepared for, and was probably illegal, might have been a good idea. I was one of the 250.000 protesters on the North Bank that made that very point to the government. I also returned my Labour Party membership card! But that is by the by; your claim about not releasing the chinook helicopters in storage was answered by me…they were unflyable. They had been in storage in the US and had aroused some interest… Read more »
I don’t dislike you . I don’t know you . I do apologise though for getting angry at what I perceived to be a flippant remark. I picked a word..storage.. whereas I should have picked up on the broader issue of the lack of funding given to the people on the ground at the time. My own experience leaves me remembering a young man dead because he couldn’t be picked up and another who is still with us but had years of dealing with PTSD. I.m not sure he is over it even now. Thank you for your stand. Rightly… Read more »
No worries…I understand your anger. Unfortunately, that is the nature of warfare…the wasting of young lives! Even the Americans took heavy casualties and they, supposedly, had the best of everything!
I think for balance, on the helicopter issue Brown and Blair, like other Tory ones since, do have a case to answer. The SABR “Support Amphibious Battlefield Rotorcraft” programme to replace Sea King HC4 in the CHF and the Puma in the RAF SHF was shelved by Brown when Chancellor, and I’d read at that time that 3 billion had been removed from the rotary craft budget. On the plus side we did purchase 6 Danish Merlin not yet taken by them in rapid time. On the wider helicopter front Geoffrey is right that we were woefully short and underequipped… Read more »
It is all the more frustrating when you consider the incredible importance of helicopters to the success of the Falklands task force. The sight of all those Wessex using the downdraught of their rotors to blow the life rafts ashore was so poignant.
Vanishing into the black smoke!! Will never forget seeing that and the lift raft coming ashore with that lad with his leg hanging off.
Someone else with a case to answer making the decision to leave the men aboard with air attack a possibility surely??
Is her indeed! Reading her story is amazing. Yes, Hendon, in pride of place.
Where I live I do not see many low level movements by jets but Odiham is close by so Chinook has always been my fav as see them most days chugging about.
I live in Gloucestershire and the Chinook is a regular, at least one a day, used to get a regular Merlin as well….but that stopped some time back. They always fly over GCHQ….whether there is any significance to that, I don’t know?
As for BN…I heard a story that she hit the sea in appalling weather but managed to keep airborne. I guess the occupants will be eternally grateful to her!
“They always fly over GCHQ”
Interesting… probably just as a waypoint? No idea.
When I was living in London the Chinooks would always fly down the Thames in the same way.
Yes, I guess the ‘Doughnut’ is hard to miss…I expect the Russians think so as well. I think that most choppers (other than the Met) use the Tames as a transit route…safety considerations I think? Sometime back (a Battle of Britain anniversary I think) I was having lunch on the terrace of a restaurant on the North Bank, when a Spitfire appeared with a Typhoon hanging off its tail. I mean that literally….it was right up the Spitfires arse! The attitude of the Typhoon was so nose up the pilot could have barely seen the Spit. Must have been on… Read more »
For me the highlight was seeing 8 Apache helicopters fly over where l live. Awesome!!! Also fairly regular Chinook helicopters fly over here. Every now and again we have Typhoon jets too.
*East Anglia area
No wonder then with Wattisham and STANTA.
Yes true, was a very impressive view though.. Usually have one or two flying over this way each week!
they pick up the Thames at Sunbury (up until there they have followed the M3 from Odiham), fly up to Canary Wharf and then veer off northwards. Rational is if they have to ditch, they can do it safely in the water! I used to work in the City and would always marvel at the stream of Chinook, Merlin, Apache and Lynx flying west-east. Sometimes they would land at HAC on City Road – I saw the osprey too when they were being trialled for SAS. Never forget the site of 2xOsprey, 2xApache and 2xChinook in formation. The old Chinook… Read more »
Was that project Julias…Julian?
That name sounds familiar, might well be.
no idea but damn impressive. Scared the shit out of everybody – they thought a war had started
So, now I know. That makes total sense.
Yes, the Osprey’s over London caused quite a stir.
Back in 80s there used to be long leg chinook flights from Aberdeen to Sumburgh in Shetland ….quick refuel … and onto the platforms to the north. About 500 km each way…long way in an immersion suit. Chinook disaster in 86 put and end to those flights. Mechanical failure of gearbox but nothing to do with Boeing.
Yes, a took a number of flights out of Sumburgh airport …usually in a Puma. The immersion suits were ghastly, and so was Dan Dare!
Dan dare….blast from the past. If I recall it was a Dan Dare aircraft skeleton that was in the water off the end of the runway at Sumburgh…always a sobering sight.
I wish that I could say that they were the good old days….unfortunately I cant. A work colleague of mine was killed in the 81 Wessex crash. They were still doing basket transfers then as well. Fortunately I spent most of those years in the Middle and Far East.
Yep. Knew a couple of people on the chinooks as well which had just left the platforms and was almost back at Sumburgh. Scary days when a certain big operator…let’s call them Pectan…. had an aviation engineering team who thought they knew best and directed modifications to gear box to improve fuel consumption……..xxxnkers.
Will say ..worked for some dodgy Operators…the above being one of them and worked for a couple of great Operators from an integrity and risk management perspective. Hess in UK and Asia were fantastic. Believed in their simplistic yet robust IMS.
Better than Hendon would be Duxford. Just imagine having a ride on an air day?!
I agree, but what an inglorious fate…from warrior horse to seaside donkey!
I wonder if this is part of the sweetener DSF was assured when told the Hercs were going? An extra Atlas or two fitted with AAR as part of this process, prob not, but quite possible? interesting to see what develops.
I think it is. This will be a fleet within a fleet and I think it will make chopper AAR a necessity
Might be mate. Could do with a few more Atlas too, 22 too few. Even if just back to the original 25.
Agreed…wouldn’t hurt would it?
Hope it’s on the cards.
almost 60 years of service now! I wonder why we didn’t buys its older model the sea knight.
This same news story appeared a while back and then nothing happened. Hopefully this time the money is put down, although delays due to covid doesn’t seem promising
As a french, if I can say something about the frenchie being jealous of our brothers of UK.
You have a good heavy lift capability in comparison of us…
The CH47 and the C17 are a good combination for ops.
And us, we wait to see enough H225M/NH90 and A400M.
It’s time to launch the strategic A800M.
I can dream no ?
Do you think that Airbus would want another project like the A400? I can’t see them venturing that far unless they get together with Boeing or LM….flying pigs are more likely!
For a strategic only cargo, it cant be a mess like the A400M. Airbus is already on the A200M (to replace the Transall). The mess of the A400M is the “all in one” formula from the start with so much country involved. Starting to work on a strategic heavy cargo with UK/FR/IT (Not the germans please..) can be enough to achieve the goal and developp a new gen C17+. And out of the planes, it will be very good for the UK to be involved in such program for the sake of the Airbus employment in UK. Also for what… Read more »
The problem here Hermes is the ‘small numbers’ that would be involved. I understand from US contributors, that the high number of flying hours of the C17 is worrying as the production line has closed. A future project would almost certainly be successful if it included the US. The numbers required would then stack up!
You are right for the size of the fleet, small means costly, it’s the problem of such assets. The problem is, you dont include the US, they include you, it’s not the same thing. The A330MRTT in US is the perfect reason of why its not viable for european industries to work with the US. I think I’m too frenchie to accept that. I prefer to pay more for a french or european stuff than US. Except some real specific needs, where the reasonnable is out of limit. (Like the cat traps / Hawkeye & co) At least until they… Read more »
That is a big problem the UK have. We have great kit in many areas, but as HMG won’t reduce commitments it gets worn out faster as fewer assets take the load.
Now I’m against the UK stepping back from world affairs, and we’ve debated that enough so not going there. I’m happy our forces are used as opposed to sitting shiny on base never used but numbers are an issue. I read we have worked the C17’s hard.
And now we cut Hercs too putting the same stress on Atlas with the SF mission.
When we first leased the C17, it had an annual flying hour limit. But as we were involved in OPs in both Iraq and Afghan, we tripled the annual flying rate. This kicked off a massive penalty clause, i.e. overflying agreed hours. So for five odd years we ended up pay the penalty surcharge, before someone was brave enough to raise it up the chain and make the MoD finally buy them. As the airframes had clocked up so many hours and so quickly Boeing didn’t want them back! Thankfully we bought a few extra. In a perverse way, cutting… Read more »
I will bet my pension on it and say that Airbus will never, ever involve itself in a programme like A400M again. Certainly not with a ‘commercial approach’. If it was cost-plus maybe. But not at risk to the company. And Hermes, stop knocking the A400M. There are enough knockers out there already. It’s a fantastic piece of kit and your country in particular should be proud for preserving with the programme when everyone else was having doubt or wanting to play footsie with the Russians or just outsource our aerospace capability to the Americans.
SR as you allayed to earlier, you have a lot of insider information on the A400M and the workings of Airbus. BAe definitely won’t go down this rabbit hole on its own, especially after Airbus got its fingers burnt. So a multi-country collaboration is I think the only way to go, when the requirement to replace the C17 comes around. Having stood on a sand dune in Wales and watched the A400m land on the beach in front of me was an epic occasion. I to believe the A400M is undervalued, but then it has big shoes to fill. In… Read more »
C-17 is a brilliant aircraft. The C-17/A400M/Voyager combo is the perfect airlift/AAR mix. The RAF is lucky. When we seriously looked at certifying the An-70 for use by the West we rapidly came to the conclusion it was a non-starter. They are not bad aeroplanes, but the design and maintenance philosophies are just totally different. Boeing did approach Airbus with a view to jointly market the C-17 and A400M, more as a political ploy to kill the C-130J and the Marietta plant. Airbus never even considered it as we knew that if we were ever to sell A400M to the… Read more »
What ? I dont said anything about the A400M.
It was hard to him to birth but today it’s a good cargo.
But, it’s a tactical cargo, we have a need for a heavy lift in the class between the C17 and the C5.
That’s why I talk about the A800M litterally.
A strategic plane with a 80-100tons capability with a good range is something we need.
It was so important at a time that the refit of the A380 to a cargo like the C5 was on the table, despite the huge cost…
Apologies Hermes
I don’t think the conversion to A380 was a serious consideration from what i have read, just wishful thinking on internet forums First the A380 is limited by the few airports that can accomodate it. Secondly the A380 has no front or rear ramps for loading. Lastly from what i have read, the floor between the 2 decks is an integral part of the airplane’s structure so you cannot just remove if to maximize internal cargo space. I seriously doubt Airbus is considering developing a heavy lift military cargo, just like the development of a heavy lift helicopter never went… Read more »
A200M is already on the way.
The “A800M” is a need, not a project.
I remember reading somewhere that France planned to lease two from Boeing.
Found it!!!
https://aviationweek.com/shows-events/air-warfare-symposium/french-air-force-studying-chinook-buy-caracal-replacement
Also worth noting.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/first-newbuild-ch-47f-helo-arrives-in-netherlands
It was on the table but our General Staff has cut the idea for our current “LPM” (Military spending programs).
It’s also more important with the COVID, its better for us to buy more H225M build in France/Europe than US stuff.
From an economic view, at least.
It was our error from the last 30 years to not have these babies (CH47).
I tend to agree with you, homegrown is a better option where possible! The AW149 is a very good example of this! “Leonardo’s AW149 multirole utility helicopter is our proposal to replace the UK’s ageing Puma fleet,” Nick Whitney, managing director at Leonardo Helicopters UK, said. “Choosing a British-made helicopter, the Leonardo AW149, as the UK’s next military helicopter would create a cutting-edge new production line in Yeovil. It would be an investment in UK skills, UK design and manufacturing, and UK intellectual property, which would support thousands of jobs, boost exports, and help towards reversing the damage caused by… Read more »
Unless they can match the price of Blackhawk, I doubt the AW149 will win. As the US Army has so many and is still buying them. It would be far cheaper to tag on to the next US Army buy. Sadly, I think cost will be the deciding factor.
Not so fast on the draw DaveyB…….politics may well be the deciding factor. The economic boost to aircraft manufacturing in the West Country and the offset spending ploughed back into the local economy, might be too big for Boris to ignore. AW149 is the obvious answer for the political scenario post-covid! Don’t forget the number of Conservative MPs now in traditional Liberal territory. I won’t bet my pension on it, but I will attempt to eat my waxed Orvis hat if Leonardo doesn’t win this one!
cost or putting money in tax payers pockets, Blackhawk is 10 years from out of service date…..
True, but the MoD was a quick and cheap interim solution. They are hedging their bets and waiting to see who wins the US Army future medium lift program. But then they’ll probably wait a couple of years to make sure any teething issues are sorted out.
If the Army/Airforce have a say, Blackhawk will be favorite. Due to the wider world use and surplus of spares. Plus they have a window dedicated for a gunner leaving the side door unobstructed.
Personally, I hope the AW wins for the reasons I mentioned above. But nothing would surprise me! The next generation of Spear missiles could be added at a later date no doubt? Weapons Outrigger pylons can carry seven, 12 or 19-tube 70mm and 81mm rocket launchers, air-to-air missiles, and air-to-ground missiles. “The AW149 helicopter can accommodate 18 troops or 12 fully equipped soldiers.” The helicopter can be fitted with a 20mm machine gun pod or a 12.7mm machine gun pod with three tubes for 70mm rockets. The cabin can be fitted with window-mounted 7.62mm general-purpose machine guns. The helicopter is… Read more »
NOTHING BUILT IN EUROPE should be considered i would rather give my hard-earned Tax pounds to America than the ungrateful French or Italians.
as there behavior over the covid vaccine means i wouldnt piss on them if they were in danger off catching fire….
Correct me if im wrong but wasn’t it the case that the biggest delay to the A400 were the Engines ? .As far as an A800 goes why try to re-invent the Wheel,just convert the A380 into a Cargo Aircraft.
It was an idea but development costs and the structural reinforcement needed to transform the A380 into a C5-like is too important. Also, the A380, even if it’s a good plane cant land in all airport. That’s why something closer from the C17 is a better way. When I talk about the “A800M” it’s not to make a bigger A400M, but just to make a strategic cargo with twice/thrice the cargo of the A400M and a good range. Without the tactical capabilities of the A400M. In fact, simply a new generation of C17, slightly bigger (up to 80-100tons), but from… Read more »
Not just the engine. The whole propulsion unit was a real challenge. Propeller, gear box and engine as well as nacelle design and packaging. The props are huge and these babies are 11K shp each! It had never been done before in the West. A tarmac to tarmac strategic airlifter with no pretence at tactical capabilities would employ simple turbofans with an easy nacelle to wing interface and be certified to civil certification standards. But the order numbers (unless the US was involved) would not justify the development costs.
No, the engines we fine it was the engine propeller gearboxes that had the issues.
I think there is a gap between the A400M & the C-17. I like the stats of the old An-22. 4x 15,000 shp turboprops, cargo hold 26.4 x 4.4 x 4.4m, payload 60,000kg. For comparison, A400M, 4x 10,000 shp turboprops, cargo hold 17.71 x 4 x 3.85m, payload 37,000kg. To build enough to be worthwhile, the workshare 45% USA, 45% EU, 10% UK. It would look like a scaled up A400M but with those cargo specs from the An-22.
60t is not enough to justifity to build a small fleet… better to buy more A400M.
If you buy a real heavy cargo, you want him to be able to be really interesting.
So… Deploy the next gen MBT with its combat setup, even if not combat ready (For the MGCS, we talk about 70tons! on paper).
So, 80 tons for a next gen strategic cargo, is the minimum to expect.
If the A400M is a C130 on steroids, the A800M must be a C17 on steroids.
Every time you increase the size, you reduce the number of customer nations. My conservative guess is that a 60 ton military transport would sell on its first production run, at least 130 aircraft. An 80 ton transport would struggle to sell half of that number, at least at first.
Some stuff are build to respond of the needs, not to being a commercial success.
60t is too much to be tactical, not enough to be efficient as strategic.
Very good news, and a true work horse. I had a very pleasant experience in the back of a Chinook. Back in December 2001, I was on-board HMS Illustrious as we headed for Mombasa for Christmas. 18sqn RAF held a sqn raffle, with the money going to charity, and the prize for 10 lucky matelots was a ride in the back. Little did we know, that the flight also included being served up a French breakfast from the very friendly Sgt aircrew men, and a glass of bucks fizz while hovering over the coordinates of the equator!. We then flew… Read more »
Did you do the swim, i.e. north to south and back again?
😄No, it was a good dunking in the makeshift pool full of left over BBQ, and a pretty awful curry cube shoved in my mouth curtesy of the chef’s. 😄 And being chased around the ship the night before from the patrolling ‘Neptune’s police’. Good times.
I remember reading about this on here a few yeasrs ago. It’s good to hear it’s progressing, and that what was implied in the recent phamplet actually holds some weight.
Hopefully BN can earn her retirement in a museum somewhere!
Good news, new chinooks the Defiant was mentioned in other articles to possibly replace the chinook in the future
The Defiant/Valor are being looked at as the future medium lift option not heavy lift, i.e. to replace the Puma/Dauphin and Bell interim replacement, which might be a Blackhawk or an AW149. Either of the Valor/Defiant variants would make a good EH101 replacement. However, there has been some recent news of a new development from Airbus, that builds on the technology of their X3 demonstrator. Airbus are looking at using this technology in a range of platforms including ones in the NH90/H225 class. The X3 compound helicopter technology will surpass the speed of the Sikorsky Defiant, but still be potentially… Read more »
Seems like Airbus and Leonardo are both more focused on the commercial market with Racer and the NextGen Civil Tilt Rotor respectively. That may be no bad thing IMV, if they both continue to dominate WW commercial vertical lift sales, which are much larger, more diversified and more commercially viable markets than the dedicated military platform markets. It still leaves both companies to pursue the paramilitary/lower tier military requirements using militarised or heavily leveraged versions of commercial platforms, e.g. solutions like H145M or AW149. Dedicated military programs like Tiger, AW159 and NH90 haven’t covered themselves in glory by contrast, either… Read more »
$150m each! Bargain! And $2bn spent with zero UK content. I know they are amazing and very usable machines but….
The £2 billion isn’t just for the aircraft, but also includes the spares package and support, plus conversion training.
Great. Its aircraft like the Chinook and C17 that give us a logistical edge over all peer European powers and enable us to fight wherever and whenever
Best heavy lift platform imo. Much cheaper than the Stallion and can also fly at higher altitudes (was usefull in Afghanistan)
Anyone know what is the difference between the G vs ER versions?
The G is the spec ops version. The ER is just a standard model F with fat tanks. Much like the current Mk5s. They were standard model Ds, but had fat tanks fitted. The MoD didn’t want to pay the asking price of the spec ops Model Es, so went for a cheaper option, which ended up costing 3 times as much.
After going down that rabbit hole, the MoD have decided to buy direct from the US Army. Therefore a certain community get what they wanted in the first place.
Thx 👍
Buying new Chinooks? What could possibly go wrong? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Speaking seriously however it’s good to see the Chinook fleet is being renewed, I wonder if this means ‘Bravo November’ will be able to take it’s rightful place in one of the RAF’s museums?
There are a lot of rumors going round, that it plus another couple will be kept for museums. The rest are likely to go on the market. Even though these airframes are nearly 40 years they have been maintained very well and kept relatively up to date avionics wise. So although the RAF fly the pants off them, another country can still make good use of them.
pointless ordering kit and then delay its delivery, someone is painting lamposts and shifting their un-spent budget before they lose it again.
For once, I am glad of the delay. The RAF needs new Chinook, but block II has teething issues. The excessive vibration from the new blades. The possibility of more powerful engines in a couple of years. So, I would like the RAF to get its 14 new Chinook, when the blade issue is sorted & uprated engines are available.
What sort of extra range are we talking from the ER version? I can imagine with the new assault ships/carriers, there will be a push to use the chinooks more from them.
Just under 800 miles-ish, depends on the winds, so around 400miles combat range. That’s still over 5 hours of flight time though!
By delaying the purchase the cost is increased, but not posted until a later year. Typical MoD bean-counter logic.