The US State Department has approved a potential Foreign Military Sale to the Government of France.
The deal involves AGM-114R2 Hellfire Missiles and related equipment, with an estimated cost of $203 million, according to a press release issued on July 7, 2023.
“The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of France of AGM-114R2 Hellfire Missiles and related equipment for an estimated cost of $203 million. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.
The Government of France has requested to buy up to one thousand five hundred fifteen (1,515) AGM-114R2 Hellfire Missiles. Also included is technical assistance; non-standard books; publications; other Hellfire publications; integration support; and other related elements of logistical and program support.
The estimated total cost is $203 million. This proposed sale will support the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States by helping to improve the security of a NATO Ally that is an important force for political stability and economic progress in Europe.
The proposed sale will improve France’s capability to meet current and future threats by building its long-term defense capacity to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity in order to meet its national defense requirements. France will have no difficulty absorbing this equipment into its armed forces”, stated the official press release.
This proposed sale will enhance France’s defence capabilities, and help the nation meet current and future threats by building its long-term defence capacity to protect its sovereignty and territorial integrity. The notice asserted, “France will have no difficulty absorbing this equipment into its armed forces.”
The prime contractor for this potential sale is Lockheed Martin Corporation, based in Orlando, FL. The notice confirmed that “there are no known offset agreements in connection with this potential sale” and that the sale “will not require the assignment of U.S. Government or contractor representatives to France.”
The release also noted that there will be no adverse impact on U.S. defence readiness as a result of this proposed sale. It emphasized, “This notice of a potential sale is required by law. The description and dollar value are for the highest estimated quantity and dollar value based on initial requirements.“
I love how the US acts like it does everyone a favour when it’s sells them missiles or weapons.
Clearly every country has to go through a similar vetting and approval process but everyone else keeps it’s quiet and acts very thankfully towards their customer that’s buying their kit and providing well paid manufacturing jobs for their people.
You can always choose not to buy American.
I already do, I got my I phone from China 😀
The US State Department has legal responsibilities under the Arms Export Control Act when it notifies the US Congress of a proposed military arms sale. The Congress must approve any such sale and the State Department must ensure Congress that it has complied with the legal requirements for any such sale under the Act. It is an open, legally mandated, process that cannot be kept quiet. That’s the US law. You may not agree with the law, but the US doesn’t care that you don’t agree with it.
removal of ITAR is a key provision of AUKUS so clearly the US does care about what I think.
ITAR is far more about grand standing of US politicians in the house and senate than anything to do with arms control.
That’s my issue with it, clearly all countries issue export licenses but everyone else manages to do it with out turning it into a political circus.
Many western nations are moving to be completely US component free in weapons systems due to this specific issue.
Completely false.
US domestic manufacturing is increasing at the moment.
Suprising purchase by the French (who usually go out of the way to buy the best for its armed forces) seeing as the replacement for the Hellfire (AGM-179 JAGM) is already in production and has been ordered by the UK and Holland. With the JAGM-MR iteration having twice the range of the Hellfire.(16 Klicks over 8)
The French usually go out of their way to buy French?
France already had Hellfires. This is another buy.
I fail to see the UKDJ motive for posting this.
Alex wrote: “”France already had Hellfires. This is another buy.”” Not the point i was making, which was 2 other European users of the Hellfire have ordered the newer and more capable JAGM, meaning they have future proofed their ATGM capability beyond the effective life of the Hellfire missile which despite upgrades is a 39 year old missile with an 8Km range which as seen in the Ukraine is now far too close for comfort for the latest SHORAD systems which is why the US purchased a load of Spike missiles in 2020 in which to afford its AH64Es an… Read more »
The motive is it’s a news story about defence and an ally. It lets readers keep up to date with what one of the U.K. closest neighbours is doing. It also generates a lot of interesting chat where people discuss and learn new things.
As quite a few have said in the chat they didn’t know they operated hellfire.
While u and I perhaps already knew this a lot didn’t.
Ok.
They are to equip its Eurocopter Tiger, Hellfires are already integrated and its specifically ordered the latest version of the Hellfire II’s (AGM-114R2) which significantly outrange JAGM (12km vs 8km) while being 1/3rd the price by not having a dual mode seeker (France uses Israeli Spike for anti-armour). JAGM-MR (16km) isnt in service yet and is even more expensive, in the order of $500k a round compared to $80-100k for Hellfire. Do you really want your soft/anti-light armour missile to cost $500k a round?
I’m not a fan of jagm missile so far for issues pointed out. Over priced, worse than what’s in service and brimstone was already available. Americans could of produced brimstone and made other variants.
Rant over.
The US did develop a very similar missile to the Brimstone, the AGM-169. Unfortunately though it was around the time of the 2nd Gulf War and ironically a period of US belt tightening where procurement programs were axed to allow for wartime operational spending.
Maybe the Americans decided not to buy Brimstone in order to spank your monkey because all you ever do is rant and rail against them.
Got me confused with one of the other American haters. I love our American cousins. Nothing wrong with pointing out where I think they go wrong and where they get it right.
Can’t improve without seeing where things go wrong or could have gone better.
American politicians and military have asked several times why they don’t use brimstone.
Congress even put $10m for integration onto super hornets in 2015.
UK’s Brimstone loses out again. Seems like it’s now mainly for fast jets, out of the back of trucks and tracked vehicles and some naval mounts?
The French never buy British equipment. Unlike the UK MOD the French government have common sense, and actually get value for money.
Get back in your box or dingy hole in the basement of the Kremlin Frost. When we want to listen to Ruskfascist propoganda and Putin’s mouthpiece, we will tune into Russia Today.
Cheers old bean…. in short bugger off.
How is life in post brexit uk? Making you a bit grumpy?
Chapter two: John in Minsk had now left for the front, the word around in the MSB vodka cooler was that he had indeed received a HIMARS handshake, courtesy of the Ukrainian Army on his first day…. The shock of the attack was making John in Minsk mutter crazy things about Putin’s mental health and doubt the special operation! Obviously he was shell shocked and the talk of transfer to Wagner was on the cards. Frost 002 knew he had to raise his game quickly, the recruiters would surely be in the basement looking for more ‘volunteers’, could he make… Read more »
I think you have watched Rocky 4 too much!
You should write some more, you have a gift! 😄
As it happens, has JinMK been removed? I cannot see his posts on older UKDJ articles any longer?
Cheers mate, well that’s interesting, I wonder if he’s struggling to churn out his rubbish on the front lines!
Think he has been chinned off (he will be back, different avatar, email etc) after making sad comments in regard to Russian war crimes in Ukraine.
Thinking about it, we may see him doing some low level tank turret flying, now he has lost his purpose in the troll farm.
The more the merrier! 💣💥 F found one from a month ago.
Post Brexit UK seems ok. You have a fetish about this post Brexit silliness don’t you, as your arguments have no depth, knowledge or experience, so always mention Brexit……most amusing.
The French buy French and only US as a last resort. They sneer at the US more than they hate the UK!
Reminds me, by way of a little 🙂.
On family tour of Canada back a while, had a French Canadian coach guide at one point (cannot recall city). Bemused when he revealed that he far preferred his British passengers, as the French visitors disdained the way the French-Canadians ‘massacred’ the home tongue.
Still bemuses to this day:- filed under the Strange but True category.
Rgs
The French- Canadians actually speak 17th century French, so they are hardly massacring it, in fact they have kept it pure: It does amuse me that their “French” culture is built around ice-hockey, beer and poutine: I found them very welcoming.
And for balance, now, I ought to state that the French I’ve dealt with have also been fine. Many years before the above I attended a language school in Lancashire. That French national required only for us to communicate operationally. Now, even at the course end, I’d be first to admit that my ability likely deserved the guillotine. But, after the vocal exam – and a subsequent pause whilst he processed what he’d just experienced – he stated, yes understood, so good enough. He also revealed, to continue the Strange but True, that the Lancashire English accent most closely resembled… Read more »
C-130J, C-135FR.
That’s a good one…😆 French get value for money
They have cats/traps, Rafale M, E-2C, nuclear carrier. A larger transport fleet, more tanks. the list goes on.
It’s not going well for you is it Frost, no converts to the Neo Nazi cause so far, I can give you a few hints and tricks on AK maintenance if you like, it might come in handy where you’re heading….
Its not top trumps….hilarious how the ill informed always go back to numbers.
Brimstone’s range is greatly improved by being fired from a fat jet up high.
Truck mount is just a quick fix to give Ukrainians something very effective.
We’re buying the Hellfire because we already have the Hellfire platform (Reaper/Tigre).
Otherwise, we’ll buy the Akéron LP.
In any case, not the Brimstone.
Its big advantage is it can be fired at supersonic speeds so helicopters prefer something cheaper even if arguably it’s not so pre use. As one can see from the performance of its wheeled tanks in Ukraine France doesn’t always go for best available indeed it has a lot of average filler items for numbers and cost reasons especially if they are part of their own or even joint programmes. But often it’s worth not going for overkill all the time, maybe Ajax shows that. Balance I guess.
I’m not sure why you’re talking about 10RC here…
It’s a 50-year-old platform with a very French doctrine.
It has carried out countless operations during its service and has served the country well.
It’s just not the right equipment for Ukraine.
Ukrainians can learn to drive and shoot it in a matter of weeks, but using it at a strategic level is a different story, especially as it’s a little too old to be used in a modern conflict.
Better than nothing, but really not adequate.
Spy wrote: “”As one can see from the performance of its wheeled tanks in Ukraine France doesn’t always go for best available”” The AMX 10C is a recce vehicle which also filled a niche slot for the French which afforded them a heavily armed light vehicle which could operate in African desert conditions where it had (and still does) have many bases where tracked vehicles would suffer difficulties affording the French the ability to cut across the desert where others couldn’t. This we saw in 1991 during Gulf War 1 when the French Division Daguet protected the Americans left flank… Read more »
I assume if they are going hellfire rather than other options, that they already have platforms integrated for them. What do they currently use hellfire for, considering they don’t have Apache and there are European options for fighter jets.
Eurocopter?
Could it be…..?
Reaper / Tigre are using Hellfire.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Missiles_Mistral_et_Hellfire_mont%C3%A9_sur_un_h%C3%A9licopt%C3%A8re_Tigre.jpg/800px-Missiles_Mistral_et_Hellfire_mont%C3%A9_sur_un_h%C3%A9licopt%C3%A8re_Tigre.jpg
I find this announcement very surprising. France has a history of going it alone and definitely not buying military hardware from the US. I’m not sure where this antipathy for US made equipment stemmed from, though I bet De Gaulle had something to do with it? The French Army currently fields the Eurocopter Tiger. Which is a a rough equivalent of an Apache. However it does not have a mast mounted radar, instead using a turreted Electro-Optical sensor, nor can it carry as much armament. Traditionally the French have used the Trigat as the primary stand-off guided missile. Trigat is… Read more »
Hellfire is not new to France. We use it for Reaper and Tigre. The Tigre HAD is a lover of Hellfire https://www.helicopassion.com/images/TIGR/France/SG14J1307h.jpg We tend to prefer French purchases when the solution exists, as it’s less costly for the economy in the end. But at present, the Hellfire platform exists, and Akéron LP is not certified for it, nor does it have sufficient production capacity. But in the end, the Akéron LP will probably replace the Hellfire (at least for French made stuff), since we can pool production with the Akéron MP already used by the military, and the next platform… Read more »
France do it sensibly as u describe. There’s no point making stuff to sell that can’t then be sold.
Also there’s no point making something that will cost a fortune and not meet the specs when that something already exists.
The question of cost is more complex.
Easy example:
French weapons are generally more expensive on the market than weapons made in the USA.
But for the French economy, it’s cheaper.
Quite simply because we produce these expensive products, create jobs, and so on, the money stays in France and generates money.
Exactly short term decisions and savings have long term consequences, you could say this is rocket science.
Hi Hermes, cheers for the update and clarification. Worked with the Tigers in Mali, looked like a nice piece of kit. I to have come a cropper due to ITAR, over a simple connector. What was once made in the UK is now made in the US. Even though the company that own the design rights to the connector are still British, As it’s now made in the US and is in a weapon system, you have to get State Department approval, before it can leave the US and be used in my application. Even though it has been used… Read more »
This is not unlike economic imperialism and why Europe (and others) needs to work together wherever possible at least to give us options amongst up and downsides. Increasingly if you want to work with the US this is what they impose upon you while you haven’t a chance in hell of any equivalence.
Very sensible too I would say, wish Britain took the bigger picture more though I think we are beginning to be a little more savvy there, as we have seen with ASRAAM and Meteor freeing them as far as possible from US parts.
Apache is a heavy attack helicopter (also only gained the radar on the D&E variants and was originally developed as a weather radar so the helicopter could navigate around storms with the fire control capability a secondary function).
Eurocopter Tigre is based around the concept of an infiltration helicopter which has reduced radar signature and minimised active emissions. Its what the US tried but failed to do with the Commanche which is closer contemporary to it than an Apache.
The US has an advantage in quantity, which turns into lower cost. Brimstone is now over $250,000 per missile. These hellfires are being sold at $130,000.
Same reason an F-35 is about 80m and a new build typhoon is 130+.
But a U.K typhoon pilot can do what he likes in the aircraft but with F35 u need prior permission to fart. Assessments needed to be paid for incase steaming up on the windows occurs.
The cost of $80 million is misleading same with the typhoon cost.
Norway’s F35 cost 34% more than Finland’s. Canada cost breakdown per jet is $450m each!
Poland pays $4.6b for 32.
The $80m figure is without an engine, pilot stuff, somewhere even said the tires weren’t included.
It’s very hard to actually compare the jet costs as all programs include different items.
Typhoon ‘new build’ isnt £130 mill compared to $80 mill F-35A.
UK purchases use a type of program accounting which includes development cost to the ‘new build cost’ plus entry into service, spares/overhaul for maybe 8 years . We can see this where UK buys US equipment such as P-8 where new build contracts are released yearly by USN and the price paid per unit is roughly 30-40% of the overall program cost divided by number built released by RAF for its ‘P-8 program’
A little unusual ,wonder if this is more of a political move .Fair play to the French there do seem to go for there own systems normally. 🤔
As already said, we use the Hellfire on Reapers and Tigre for a while and the replacement of the Hellfire is the Akéron LP, but still not qualified nor even mass produced.
So, atm nothing French to replace the Hellfire.