Nine British ships have been shadowing seven Russian vessels in waters around the UK, say the Royal Navy.
“Type 23 frigates HMS Kent, HMS Sutherland, HMS Argyll and HMS Richmond joined Offshore Patrol Vessels HMS Tyne and HMS Mersey along with RFA Tideforce, RFA Tidespring and HMS Echo for the large-scale operation with support from NATO allies.”
Three Steregushchiy-class corvettes, two Ropucha-class landing ships and two Admiral Grigorovich-class frigates were observed during the operations, plus their supporting auxiliary ships and tugs, according to the Royal Navy here.
“HMS Sutherland, fresh from a demanding period of Arctic training on Exercise Cold Response, watched over the Russian presence as part of her duties with NATO’s Standing NATO Maritime Group One – a very high readiness task group made up of frigates and destroyers which patrols northern European waters to provide a reassuring presence. The Devonport-based frigate’s Merlin helicopter carried out a number of intelligence-gathering sorties over the Russian ships as they passed through the Channel.”
The ROyal Navy also said in the release:
“As the Navy’s logistics specialists and military planners work with the wider Armed Forces to help the coronavirus response effort, Royal Navy sailors and aircrew were monitoring every movement of the Russian ships using state-of-the-art radar, surveillance cameras and sensors, allowing them to track their course and speed as they passed the British Isles. They were supported by Merlin and Wildcat helicopters of 814 and 815 Naval Air Squadrons.”
It always amuses me that the Russians always send a tug with the combat ship that they deploy. Is it because they don’t trust their ships not to break down or is it because they don’t have many friendly countries to go into port.
Diffrent subject but does anyone know why there have been Voyager aircraft flying and doing race tracks over the North Sea for the past few days. The one landing just now in BN has been of Peterhead for about three-four hours.
Air to air refueling training, perhaps?
It’s definitely a confidence in equipment, the Russians can’t afford to look stupid again, but a permanent tug with their ships does make them look stupid, imagine the Royal Navy going around the globe with tugs…
Did not one of our type 45 need a tow a while back?
They don’t go sailing with the dam things and we have solutions to the Type 45 problems.
We think we have the solution, until the money is actually invested and the refits happen, we don’t know for sure they will actually happen or if it will work.
Tug is for Ropucha, they are really old and even with maintenance they are not reliable anymore, at the moment there is little alternative. Black Sea fleet has some commercial cargo ships for Syria supply but not enough, other fleets dont
Our Falcon20s are up there too ….war games
You can’t see the military jets their identifiers don’t show up.
Just love the way the Russian Navy go sea with the support of tugs. Heavily armed tugs I presume.
Could be a few reasons, other than the obvious maybes they would use them as sacrificial targets in the event of a conflict. Maybes handy storage otherwise. Or could be a floating weapons base to launch on behalf of other ships but that’s unlikely.
We shouldn’t be so superior given the T45’s engine problems.
I always suggest we just use a tug to shadow them and fly some international flag asking “do you need assistance”.
Possibly they also allow a fuller compliment of intelligence & ELINT.
Love to see some photos-that must be the biggest grouping of RN vessels in UK waters for many years
Agreed must be quite a sight and it’s certainly a heavy response!
Again, just what I was thinking Geoff! So many T23’s.
Showing off their anti-ship missiles before they are withdrawn!
It wasn’t at the same time, this response was over a couple of weeks!
Any information on what the Russians are doing? Are they just passing through or is it some sort of gesture to show that they haven’t gone away?
Mr Putin diverting his people from any problems at home by showing the bear is back with a vengence. 20 years since he first became President today, apparently.
I wonder if they are simply just isolating an entire ships company by sending them to sea? If so an interesting tactic. I also suspect there is something in HF’s comment – to distract from a situation you haven’t got a solution to is not uncommon.
I wonder if we manage to outgun them because from what people have been saying Russian ships are much more heavily armed than ours (my primary area of interests the army so I don’t know myself)
Russian ships are always packed to the brim with weapons. Some of their corvettes have a naval gun close to that on our destroyers. Though, you can always argue it’s quality over quantity. You can also take into account the technology British ships pack which is often ahead of the Russians.
Yeah they are and who has the biggest economy again? It’s the UK… we should arm our ships better.
Ofcourse. The Type 26s are promising. 48 sea ceptor, 24 Mk41 VLS cells and any other deck mounted anti ship missiles that may come in the future. The Type 45s were ordered coming out of a global recession, where defence budgets are an easy way to cut spending. They were meant to have an additional 24 mk41 cells forward of the Sylver launcher silo. Russia also spends twice as much as a percent of GDP than we do. That will negatively impact other economic and social areas.
in real war these Russian ships would be nowhere near the confines of the channel or even the north sea. so their weapons filled to the gunnels would not count for much as the NATO airforce bombed or missiled them to bits.
You should see the North Korean ships every spare inch has a gun poking out……….. however meaningless. 1 torpedo can end any ship . The Russian navy could resurrect the Potemkin and add hypersonic missiles to it wouldn’t make any difference. Spearfish around since 1992 more deadly than any missile . Mark VIII designed 1927 and used in 1982 sank the Belgrano a heavily armed cruiser history tells us all just how deadly these munitions are . You can have all the hypersonic supersonic ultrasonic new wave sonic sonic the hedgehog missiles you want but at the end of the… Read more »
How many subs do we have in the water?
I don’t know that would be classified , me i’d Guess 1 maybe 2 , it only takes 1 sub to send an entire navy back into port . Fact 1982 Falklands war .
I’m talking about hunter killers not our Trident ? carrying detergent where we know always 1 out on patrol
Auto correct is a bitch get your Persil ?
I doubt any of the major powers would give up at the 1st loss to a submarine, even us. It’d be like having an army but surrendering after a couple of hundred got killed. Only small navies might do that but it’s never certain. Why buy all that gear, train & develop the capabilities to hunt down subs just to give up 1st time? Besides, no point basking in the long lost “glory” of the Falklands when the escort fleet is but 1/3, & the submarine fleet less than half of what it was back then. Had we not been… Read more »
Not enough!
SSN are the Battleships of the fleet in my view and should be a priority.
Nicholas is right we definitely need more than 7 hunter killers, I would love to see a follow on batch of at least 3 or 4 astute type 2s built either concurrently with or immediately after construction of successor class SSBNs
With Submarines you best build them in multiples of 4 for operational purposes. I agree we probably need 12 to secure the North and other strategic interests. One every 18 months used to be the rate. Now its less organised and more a question of what the Treasury ultimately sees fit.
I have always wondered how much a trimaran would resist sinking from a torpedo, but I guess it depends on where it hit/explodes. I know Spearfish is supposed to explode underneath a ship creating a pocket in the water (vacuum), that’s designed to break the back of a ship. But if a ship had three hulls would it have a better chance of survival?
Not really. In the warship configurations studied so far, the outriggers do not have sufficient buoyancy to make a difference in your scenario.
I take it the bubble created under a ship by the torpedo explosion can be larger than the beam of the ship?
Would the “outriggers” not be useful in the event of a sea skimming anti ship missile attack, acting as a sacrificial defense?
Quality over quantity? Well they usually carry twice the number of anti ship missiles than we do & they’re usually newer & far more capable. What we have are obsolescent Harpoon ASMs that we only just stopped ourselves scrapping entirely with no replacement in sight for over 10 years. Their CIWS gatlings are probably more effective being larger calibre, longer ranged & usually present in twice the number on their ships. I support our RN, but we’re in desperate need of raising numbers of everything rather than stumbling along with numbers & capabilities well below what’s needed. Now we’re taking… Read more »
I have in the past been on soviet and russian vessels. With a knowing eye it was interesting to compare their way of doing things to western navies. They bristle with sensors for a reason. Reliability and availability was poor so they required duplication. CIWS systems are split into radar and gun for the same reason. The radars break so other trackers can take over. On things like Phalanx this is less of an issue as reliability it in the very high 90% The OPS room was not integrated. Info from seperate radars and sensors was plotted using chinagraph wax… Read more »
Yes, a note of caution should be made when discussing how great and well armed Russian warships are comparable to western navies. The reality,is perhaps not quite as simple.
And remember the super tank the press in the west were getting excited about not too long ago ?
The reality doesn’t always match the brochure.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-military-insight/despite-putins-swagger-russia-struggles-to-modernize-its-navy-idUSKCN1QA0U7
I wouldn’t worry Ryan as even if armed to the teeth they wont be able to detect the squadron of F35Bs coming in at medium altitude to drop 4x 500lb laser guided bombs each onto their decks from 10,000 feet. Or the astute or Trafalgar class SSNs 10+ miles away firing a ripple of wire guided heavy weight torpedoes travelling at 90+ knots in their direction. I dont think any of that group of ships has a radar suite capable of detecting 5th generation stealth aircraft let alone able to defeat a heavyweight torpedo undertaking evasive manoeuvres as it closes… Read more »
At this juncture, I really can’t see why we couldn’t announce the purchase of two to three dozen NSM’s and more Meteor missiles if required? At roughly £700,000 per missile, three dozen would cost us £25,200,000 plus integration of course and Meteor’s Unit cost: €2,000,000 as of 2019.
I’m not sure how far we got with this?
https://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/archive-world-worldwide-news-air-force-aviation-aerospace-air-military-defence-industry/defense-security-exhibitions-news/air-show-2017/lima-2017-bis/lima-2017-news-coverage-report-bis/3367-kongsberg-s-jsm-missile-to-be-added-to-eurofighter-typhoon-weapons-package.html
I’m certain theres something in the works, because currently we dont have anything to put in the Type26 Mk41 cells except more Sea Ceptor missiles.
In the report I read someone felt it necessary to say they weren’t posing a threat to the country taking advantage of the current crisis.
People Dont you see whats happening now The Chinese have inflicted biological warfare on the western economies (which they are seceding ) There has not been a lot of news coming from Russia re the outbreak Now all this movement of military hardware Now i see on AlJazeera news Spain has put in an order for $450m if medical equipment from guess where yes from China So the plan is working Whilst the anti British BBC moans and keep adding about gloom and doom every news broadcast So i think the military shoud be put on high alert if they… Read more »
It will be interesting to see how things pan out once Covid 19 is over especially if Trump wins reflection. I’m not sure if the Chinese deliberated instigated this thing or if it really did come from eating a bat but Trump will definitely want to inflict as much economic damage back on China as has been inflicted on the US. If he could have his way the US would not import a single thing from China.
Seriously autocorrect is a curse sometimes
So is believing anything the orange one says.
I have very grave misgivings about the PRC’s ambitions, but if they wanted to hit us with this as a bio weapon why start in the middle of their own country causing at least as much death & disruption as anywhere else? I don’t believe their figures are anywhere near the true numbers affected.
It’s like the Japanese starting war with the USA by sinking half of its own fleet.
I see some Far East nations are coming out of lockdown. Thanks to pollution, they have a habit of wearing masks & the supply chain for them. I understand the UK lockdown, but fear what it is doing to National wealth. UK Gov budget deficit is predicted to treble. Many shops, pubs, hotels, airlines may never reopen. We cannot have 18 months of on/off lockdowns without bankrupting many individuals & firms, while the gov has so much debt it leads to twenty+ years of austerity. Many UK chemical & brewing firms have switched to hand sanitiser production. Great, but we… Read more »
All advanced countries are going to have bigger deficits.
And if we have any sense we will be wanting to supply our own tat rather than buy it from China. Surely we will have to make sure we buy our own strategic supplies from closer to home as well.
So this business OUGHT to leave Chinas economy weaker than it should. We will gave to see.
Every cloud has a silver lining.
Corona virus is Nature’s way of reducing carbon emissions ?
There is absolutely zero evidence that this virus is a bio weapon. On the other hand, there is significant evidence that it naturally evolved.
Add a carrier and couple destroyers and submarine and we have the largest carrier battle group we have seen in many years from the UK,
Come on Russia, do it again. Keeps the RN in HMG’s mind.
I’m with you on that one, there is no such thing as bad publicity. The down side is it allows all the daft conspiracy theorists to come out of the woodwork, see above. I always thought Barry White had a deep voice, not a whiny one!
I like the idea that comrade Vladimir is a cheerleader for the RN as well as the RAF! Does anyone know where the tug and support ships where heading?
He needs to be!!!
HMG of all hues forget about Defence of the Realm at the best of times!
I know the Russian Tug gets a good laugh here, but, could there be merit in it? Not in case one of ours breaks down, but as a usable asset?
Could the RN use the Tug concept? Operated by an escort acting as “mother”?
Fit it with missiles, use it as a decoy? Or as a comms relay?
During Overlord we had barges packed full of rockets for saturation shore bombardment.
Or as a sacrificial shield?
Seems to be what the T31s will be. Not light in size, just ruddy great under armed liabilities, as the Rivers will be. Good luck recruiting crew for forlorn hope ships. All the arguments that we won’t ever put lesser ships into hostile situations go out the window when conflict kicks off as the reality is very unpredictable & assets usually end up in harms way. The enemy doesn’t pull punches for weaker ships, it just takes advantage of easy kills & doesn’t wait for us to equip them properly after kit is FFBNW.
I see the RN fleet growing in quantity at the expense of ‘quality’. T31 is one example. MRSS is another; 2 cheap MRSS versus one expensive LPD.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/plans-for-lss-and-fsss-vessels-may-be-scrapped-in-favour-of-mrss/
I do expect T31 will get an AShm but in a shooting war, especially an opposed landing, there will be losses. I think the philosophy will be save the crew and sacrifice the ship.
Just a little more effort & minor expense & the T31s could have a few more SAM silos, a 4 to 5″ gun, up to date AshMs & so be a decent GP frigate. It’s faffing about making stupid decisions that’s running the RN down & could cost na lot of lives if thrust into conflict before it’s all sorted out.
In an opposed landing you definately want all your FFGs with a decent medium gin to pound those shores, not a 57mm.
And a decent medium gun too 🙂
If we do put only a 57mm on the T31s that’ll mean only the far too valuable T45s & T26s will be capable of NGS, just 14 ships. That’s our primary air defence & ASW assests. Both of which are essential to look after the carriers & vital to many other task groups too.
Yes. T26 and T45 are high value targets. We were originally planning 12 T45 and 13 T26 ‘Global combat ships’. Times have changed. Given where we are I would have thought it makes more sense to put the 5in on T31 for NGS and the 57mm on T45 and T26 both of which would benefit from the upgrade in AAW. All types should have a credible AShM.
Re the T45 it was i recall conceived under a Labour Government. and 12 were to be ordered and then 8 and then 6 on the utterly lame and bogus excuse that they were more capable than previously though.Utter B”””””t
Yes, I used the term Decoy.
Not crewed of course.
Would love to see some modern type of The Landing Ship, Medium (Rocket) LSM(R) like in WW2
The RN used to have 8 or 9 fleet tugs in the inventory. Why did they drop them?
They did?
What era? I’m only aware of the varied Tugs and support tenders of the RMAS, which became Serco Denholm.
That fleet is modernised and still exists at all naval bases and some other places today.
Belonged to the Royal fleet auxiliary, taken over by Serco Marine sub-contracters. c29 tugs for RN duties but few ocean going.
On a different note, Does anyone know if a Britten-Norman defender 4000 could operate from HMS Queen Elizabeth (with additional foldable wings) because they are STOL and only take 15 meters to land and 15 to take of they also have 1000 odd mile range and can go 200mph. They also have an AEW variant and we could use them for early warning and ISTAR, there’s also hard points for weapons ect. Just a thought
Sadly the aircraft is not capable of landing or taking off from the carrier without assistance. The details you’ve quoted from wiki are not correct. The details should read: the required length of runway to reach an altitude of 15m is 565m and the required runway length to come to a stop from an altitude of 15m is 589m. The aircraft simply does not have the power to take-off even using the ramp. It would need help to stop from either arrestor cables or a barrier. To use the aircraft from the carrier you would require a new wing and… Read more »
Thanks, wiki does seem a bit off at times!
I think a better aircraft to look at for the on board AWAC/AEW/AsuW, in conjunction with the Merlins, is the Leonardo AW609 tilrotor. Though less capable than the Osprey in terms of flight and lift capabilities, it will be cheaper to prcure, take up less hanger space, and it can reach 25,000ft with a payload of 1200kg and thus can easily accommodate the Crowsnest airborne radar plus possibly in AWAC/ARE role currently assigned the Merlin helicopter. Patrol range for the 609 is at least 200nm from the carrier with 2-3 hours on station. This is the aircraft I would look… Read more »
But can it carry the crew to perform the fighter control? I believe the Merlin has 4 in the back to do that.
The AW609 is Not an option leonardo/Agusta Westland have an agreement with Bell helicopters that the aw609 can’t be used for military purposes other than search and rescue. The only options tilt rotor wise would be the EV-22 proposal that we dismissed as to costly to run v-22s or the V-280 when they release the Marines version, we buy 16 of them and get 6 fitted with an early warning suite and get Marshall’s to fit the remaining 10 with a refuelling system and removable internal tanks, so they can still be used for longer range transport and we solve… Read more »
Hoi Putin. Leave it alone you muppet. Dont you know there is the small matter of a worldwide pandemic? Does he even read the newspapers or watch the news? Fact is that little group of ships wouldn’t have got into the English channel in any conflict let alone sail its length. NATO outclassed and out guns the Russian navy in every area. By sending groups like this into the English channel all he is doing, for which I am grateful, is raising the profile of the Royal Navy. Still, you would think Russia would have something better to do with… Read more »
Hi Mr Bell, To be fair they are probably just transitting back to the Northern Fleet after supporting Assad’s offensive in Northern Syria. Any poke at the UK / NATO will just be an added little bonus to for them. The English Channel, like the Straits of Hormuz, has international transit rights, within specific shipping lanes, so the Russians have every right to pass. To answer your question to Putin (as I suspect he doesn’t read these pages); given the rate at which the pandemic has moved in the last 2 weeks I supect that these ships started their move… Read more »
The pandemic has just claimed a very large USN naval unit.
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/unfolding-nightmare-pacific-us-carrier-diverts-guam-covid-19-cases-spike
We’re only seeing the beginning of all this.
Cheers and Stay healthy All.
Hi Helions, Looks grim and I bet they are only too well aware of what can happen on a crowded ship. I wish the crew of USS Theodore Roosevelt all the very best and their families who must be worried sick for their loved ones. This whole pandemic is highlighting how much we rely on a few key workers to keep us safe and healthy from all kinds of threats. From cleaners to medics, from truck drivers to service personnel – they are under appreciated, under valued and all too often under paid. Here in the UK we stepped outside… Read more »
yes. we would be in mess without cleaners.
It’s terrible to see all the rubbish littering our roads. a certain group of people are disgusting.
Agreed CR, it’s times like these when the folks who actually do the heavy lifting in society are highlighted.
Update:
https://news.usni.org/2020/03/26/coronavirus-outbreak-sidelines-aircraft-carrier-uss-theodore-roosevelt
Cheers
I’m just amazed we can put 9 ships together at once with the size of our fleet.
I tell you what chaps – some fairly arrogant comments here regarding the tug. It’s not really such a bad shout given it is pennies in the grand scheme of things but when you need one – you will be very very happy that it was there. It can be used for a number of supporting roles the other assets cannot – not only towing.
Lol, tug!
Slightly off topic, but I saw an item on defense-aerospace.com. Pratt & Whitney awarded $7,681,734 to produce & deliver seven Lift Fan Inter Stage Vanes for Marine Corps JSF. “The new LF ISV will provide lift fan operations over an increased temperature range, improved trailing edge angle conformance and will address vibration and flutter concerns.”
Any idea if UK F-35B will get this?
There seems be a lack of balance when discussing the Russian fleet.
The attitude from some is “look at all the scary weapons they have”. But how well do they work in reality ?
https://jamestown.org/program/new-generation-of-russian-naval-vessels-riven-with-serious-shortcomings/
No surprises then!
Royal Navy combatants – fitted for, but not with anti-ship missiles
https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/royal-navy-combatants-fitted-for-but-not-with-anti-ship-missiles/
Hate these fu..ers even more now, that said I thank them for providing our military with the experience in such times that we’re all in.
Remember the 4 D’s people in the Russian play book.
Deny, Deflect, Distract, Divide.
Just a thought. Do the French send out any units to escort this Channel dash?
Do the French send out any units to escort this channel dash?
Yes.
French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle deploys to North Sea region for first time in 10 years
https://www.janes.com/article/95162/french-aircraft-carrier-charles-de-gaulle-deploys-to-north-sea-region-for-first-time-in-10-years
CdeG is not monitoring the Russians. Jeesh.
In reply to BigH1979
Do the French send out any units to escort this channel dash?
At least try to act like an adult on this forum Ron5 and post something factual that might just be useful to others on here instead of your usual rhetoric, it’s really boring.
Guys,
You are missing some more importents
Ropucha-class main purpose, to carry troops, big bunches with vehicles
Pretty surprised we had 4 frigates for the task, normally there is only OPV’s around for it.
French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle deploys to North Sea region for first time in 10 years
https://www.janes.com/article/95162/french-aircraft-carrier-charles-de-gaulle-deploys-to-north-sea-region-for-first-time-in-10-years