Conservative MP calls for ‘more ships and more capability’ for Royal Navy

Afternoon all
So that battle begins, the RN recovering from the supposed “Year of the Royal Navy” with lots of press and supportive MP’s asking questions prolong enough so that a minister can answer it without promising anything but giving the view that all is well.
Will it be the RAF next, especially is this Y100 for the service or will the Army steal a march?
Change is coming, who is it going to change most?

The MOD is inviting everyone to email their contributions.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/686625/Modernising_Defence_Programme_consultation_-_overview_of_MDP.pdf

The RN growing?
Why was it announced yesterday that Babcock are to lay-off 500 yes i did say 500 workers from Devonport Naval Base
They must have heard that the Albion and Bulwark are going along with all the Marines and landing craft that they use as well
Which means that there is hardly anything based there now
So to save money the place will go
Was this in the news ? No it wasnt as it was the forgotten part of the UK The South West

There need to be military aware MP’s in the house to call out crap statements from ministers that the RN is growing there and then.

What did it grow by? A few hundred ratings I believe by reducing officer ranks.

FFS the conservatives are a disaster on defence.
The UKs armed forces have been slashed back to pathetic levels.
Not that current Labour party would be any better.
We need some new more sensible political leaders that actually understand defence and the need now more than ever to have a capable armed forces.
Everyone in parliament and the MOD seem to forget the cold hard fact, you fight wars with the personnel and weapons you have to hand. That is why we are in trouble now. Not enough weapons not enough ships, not enough subs, not enough jets, not enough personnel.
Get real…go to 3% GDP to defence right now and put trident replacement and pensions right back onto the treasury not the core defence budget.

Its a shame no one in parliament challanges the whole growing navy topic. It seems to me that over the last few years a rather large number of ships have silently gone out of service and a lessor number have come into service.

The only way it seems to be growing is tonnage, but would be the worst case of stat manipulation.

Building more ships, but less capable ones cheaper is the political excuse of the government… It completely shows what the government thinks about it’s people and that of the United Kingdom, not being capable of critical thinking.. I say it here, and I say it now as an example of the right critical thinkers of the nation that even one Type 26, is value for money, is worth more than 5 Type 31E, in it’s capability alone, it’s deterrent factor not included.. You can’t weigh tonnage and capability in the same sentence, and call it an increase in capability. It’s all a built up illusion in order to confuse the rabble which they think incapable of critical thinking.. I’m hear too tell them they are wrong… Who’s with me?

So, leaving aside the Tories and Labour, who do we vote for? And don’t say UKIP, they’re mad as a box of frogs, right wing nut jobs, fast falling apart, stabbing each other in the back whose former millionaire non event of a claim filling MEP Farage and his foreign wife has really lumbered this country with multi billion pound bills to settle and made us a laughing stock.

I’m hoping we are just starting to see the tide turning and our polititions waking up. We have fantastic capabilities but no strength in depth to survive in a major conflict. Let’s hope we get some positive news of a plan for growth soon. Or maybe I’m mad…

Richard Drax is the grandson of Admiral Drax who was sent to Moscow in 1939 to negotiate an alliance with the Russians. He’s an interesting character to read about, should you enjoy that kind of thing.

I think our politicians sense that the voters have little appetite for increased defence spending. While that may be true, it is no excuse for an abdication of the duties of leadership. Clearly, the Royal Navy, in particular needs more fighting ships. Our politicians need to explain that inescapable fact to the electorate. Unfortunately, most seem unwilling to grasp the nettle. They are not making the effort to understand this complex subject sufficiently to guide the electorate that trusts them, or ought to.

The ‘navy is growing’ line? I thought they gave that lie up with the disaster that was the ‘Year of the Navy’.

The RN may or may not be ‘growing’. But it is certainly being recapitalised with new carriers, Opvs, Type 26 and Type 31 to come. Restructuring may be more accurate. Bases in the UK are being rationalised but Gulf bases like Jaffair and Duqm are growing. And the UK is keen to expand into Kuwait. Would be interested to know what the UK contribution is to these large construction projects and whether any of it is coming out of the defence budget, a significant item in which is facilities.

It is possible that we may see an increase in defence spending. Although HMG is still running a deficit in its budget each year, it’s now only due to capital/ investment projects. In other words the U.K. has a surplus on its OPEX budget but this is less than current CAPEX spending for the first time since before the Crash of ‘08. With interest rates so low it is arguably a good time to borrow cash to invest in infrastructure and other capital costs.

That said. The interest the U.K. pays on its current debt mountain is equivalent to the entire annual defence budget. So had the last Labour Government not run up such a huge debt then it would be possible to double defence spending.

I see in the newspapers today some talk that Trump is talking about giving exemptions from the US steel and aluminium tariffs to those allies who are spending at least 2% of GDP on defence. With some statistics claiming that the U.K. isn’t actually meeting its 2% target (I’ve seen 1.96% mentioned) maybe this could be an impetus for the U.K. to at least make sure the target is very clearly met by all measures and hopefully a small safety margin on top to make a statement that we are not only meeting but exceeding the 2% however modestly.

We have to accept that we are in a precarious situation financially with not only the military but also NHS, police and other areas underfunded so I think 3% of GDP on defence is never going to happen unless a closer-to-home war breaks out. I did think though, after reading the Save the Royal Navy article about how much the RN did in Feb 2018 even with its equipment and funding constraints, just how much impact a relatively small injection of extra budget could make.

At a budget now of about £40bn a year just a 5% increase from 2.0% to 2.1% of GDP would give an extra £2bn a year. Allocate half of that to increases in personnel and other annual running costs across all three services (which would really help alleviate the staffing shortages) that still leaves an extra £1bn a year for incremental new equipment purchases. Say the RN got half of that, and using Pacman27’s favoured 20 year drumbeat, that’s an extra £10bn of equipment purchases over the next 20 years. That actually buys quite a lot of stuff. No, it doesn’t get us to some of the fantasy fleet numbers bandied about here but it’s definitely enough to add an extra Astute, a couple more T26, a few more T31 and even some extra budget per T31, including the 5 already announced, to make sure they are credible and still leave cash left over for other stuff besides. Plus the Army and RAF also have another £10bn equipment budget to split between them.

Small increases could make a big difference.

First thing they need to do is to give military a decent remuneration package.

Every trained military person with two years service should be on a minimum of £25k and once they have completed 9 years satisfactory service they should be eligible for an training package which include exemption from tuition fees and a maintenance grant for up to 3 years.

Then we can focus on the equipment, as long as the equipment needs human being to operate and maintain it then the humans come first because without the first the second is useless

For the people thinking of writing to your MP or whoever…please do it but make it constructive. As some of you may have noticed I had a submission paper here a few days ago about our amphibious capability.
What you may not know is that it started as a paper to the Defence sub committee and was taking on board as part of their review, included in the full report, along with others, and subsequently published in the Parliamentary Review which is received by all MP’s and is available to both Houses of Parliament.
My “amateur” paper was taken seriously throughout and I am now preparing for submission to the SOS regarding the upcoming defence review. I think we have a lot of friends and allies at Westminster so go for it.