Local media reports that Israel plans to share its experience operating the F-35 with the US and the UK in an upcoming exercise.

The operational experience acquired by the Israeli Air Force in recent months is of great interest to the United States and other countries that operate the F-35, according to local media.

Last year’s operation fighting in Syria has made the Israeli Air Force one of the most experienced operators of the jet. Local media reported that one of the primary reasons for Israeli involvement was among other things, to share operational experience related to using the aircraft in combat.

The Israeli Air Force and the Royal Air Force are holding a joint exercise soon but it’s currently unclear if this is part of this upcoming exercise in which Israeli jets will visit the UK or an exercise in which British jets will visit Israel, or something new entirely.

Earlier in the year it was confirmed that Israel will join the RAF’s Cobra Warrior exercise in September along with aircraft from Germany and Italy.

The Cobra Warrior exercise traditionally includes crew and aircraft from other allied air forces that train together with their British counterparts in complex combat scenarios. Formerly named the Combined Qualified Weapons Instructor, Cobra Warrior is focussed on providing the combined assessment phase for the RAF’s Weapons Instructors.

An MoD spokesperson told the UK Defence Journal:

“The Israeli Air Force will be participating Exercise Cobra Warrior in Sep 2019. This is the culminating event for the UK’s Weapons Instructor qualification course. The exercise will be run out of RAF Waddington.

The Israeli Air Force role, basing and footprint during Ex Cobra Warrior is yet to be determined. Israel are planning to bring an, as yet, unspecified number of F15 aircraft with appropriate support personnel. Other participants in Ex Cobra Warrior 19 include Germany and Italy.”

It is unknown whether or not this is an additional exercise or whether Israel are now sending F-35 jets to the UK.

Another possibility is that with the Royal Air Force expected to take part in the Israeli Blue Flag 2020 exercise, which would be the first time British aircraft have trained in Israeli airspace however, this is where the joint F-35 exercise will take place.

Last year, Israeli combat pilots attended a joint training seminar with the Typhoon aircrew at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland, but reportedly did not arrive with their own aircraft.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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46 COMMENTS

      • @ John Martin – Well that question could open up a difficult debate on many fronts but lets just stick something called ‘trust’. I was somewhat castigated by someone some weeks ago when I expressed concern (nothing more) about an Israeli supplied rescue device that broadcasts a downed pilots position. Excellent idea. My concern was that we would have no idea if this safety device on a pilots harness was also broadcasting where he was BEFORE any emergency. Not a good idea. I was told I was being stupid.

        We now find out that an Israeli company called NSO Group which markets various cyber tools (like Pegasus) is associated with the malicious loading of software onto any WhatsApp platform and will then broadcast messages, images and take control of the camera and microphone on the device.

        In 2016 this same company was credited with creating malicious software capable of “jailbreaking” any iPhone with just one tap of the screen, and then installing vicious spyware.

        So at the risk of being castigated again (not that I give one) my ‘concerns’ at having anything to do with the Israelis have not been eased shall we say?

        • I’m with you Chris also the NSO group seem to be incredibly close to the Israeli government. Considering how many NATO countries are outraged about huawei doing something very similar.

        • Considering how the UK has treated Israel in the past, I am sure the “Trust” factor is mutually lacking on their part with regards to HMG.

          Two old sayings come to mind in this scenario:
          1) The enemy of my enemy is my friend(ally).
          2)Keep your friends close and your enemies (or ‘Friends’ that you don’t trust) closer.

    • Replace “Israelis” with ‘Ugandans’ or ‘Nigerians’, and your comment appears worse. Why do you hate Israel? Is that you, Jeremy? Or you, Adolf? George Galloway?

      • What on Earth are you talking about, Israelis, Germans, Italians, Ugandans, Brits, American’s etc etc.

        Stop looking for something that isn’t there.

        Would you call the thousands of Israelis that protest against their own governments actions “Adolf” as well?

    • Are you not aware the Israelis are first class at what they do they have immense amounts of actual combat experience in operations? . They don’t @&€% about .

      As for somehow implying they are to be likened with evil dictatorships and are an enemy with your “worse” comment whiffs a bit ?

      I don’t know if you are aware but Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. They are surrounded by dictatorships and hostile nations who want to destroy them. Don’t believe the propaganda and bias anti Jew anti Israel ? the media pumps out.

      There never was an ancient Palestine or Palestinian people. The Jews lived in the land in the B.C until the Roman Empire occupied. Then around 70A.D due to an uprising by the Jews which was put down by the Romans and the region renamed “Palestina by the Roman governor as a big F U due to Jews ancient enemies the philistines. And here we are today .

      As for their intelligence agencies monkeying about with spyware that’s on WhatsApp ,so what ? Nothing the NSA or GCHQ dont do everyone’s at it.

      • @ Los Pollos – You just demonstrated why I said ‘on many fronts’ and avoided that area of discussion. Suffice to say I fundamentally disagree with your synopsis and version of history. But here is neither the place nor the time. We are discussing security of the UK and its military personnel.
        However I will correct you on the usually peddled falsehood that it is the only democracy in the Middle East. There are many but right next door to Isreal we have Jordan. A Parliamentary Monarchy modelled on our own arrangements and with which Israel has had a long standing peace accord.

        • Chris H, can you take your political rants somewhere else please?
          Political views are difficult to keep out of some military discussions, but ranting on about Israel, Zionism, Palestinians…has no connection whatsoever with this article, or any other articles to date, on this site.

          • @Ian – with the greatest respect that was precisely MY point when I wrote in my first posted reply:
            “Well that question could open up a difficult debate on many fronts but lets just stick something called ‘trust’”

            I then posted:
            “You just demonstrated why I said ‘on many fronts’ and avoided that area of discussion”
            Followed by:
            “But here is neither the place nor the time. We are discussing security of the UK and its military personnel”

            So I am not sure where that can in any way be called a ‘political rant’. Neither was I ‘ranting’ about Israel I was expressing my concerns about its cyber activities. I also never mentioned bloody Zionism or indeed the Palestinians.

            So by all means criticise me but at least get the foundations for said criticism accurate please.

        • Hmm well agree to disagree we shall have to. It’s not my version of history it’s simply called history you might not like it but it doesn’t change the fact the ancient land of Canaan (modern Israel) was conquered and occupied by the Romans the revolt of the Jews was finally crushed and the land renamed “provincia Syria – Palestina” from that time forward all those living there were known as ‘Palestinians’ right up till modern times with Arafat (an Egyptian) and his terrorist PLO who stirred up the strife we see today .

          As for Jordan it is a constitutional monarchy in name only everyone know it’s the monarch who pulls the strings. The people cannot vote for anyone who is actually in control so no it’s not a democracy like we have in the west. And where are the rest you claim many ? Name 1 all are basically dictatorships.

          I only brought this topic up as it’s obvious the anti Israel bias runs through the views of many. Israel is not a threat to the U.K. or it’s security and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional .

          • @ Los Pollos – As I said “But here is neither the place nor the time”

            You are not dragging me into this debate thank you.

          • What a silly argument

            There was no ancient England either, England was inhabited by Celtic people’s until the Romans came, then the Anglo Saxons and finally the Normans, the native people were pushed west and north, which is why we have wales and Scotland, where do you think the Gaelic language comes from.

            So I suppose based on your argument if the Welsh/Irish/Scottish highlanders started taking back large areas of England, forcing families from their homes and demolishing them in front of them, started treating us like second class citizens, turning England into an apartheid state you would be fine with that then? Because the Gaelic people lived here 1500 years ago?

            What a load of tosh, only fanatical Zionist supporters who see Muslims as nothing with no rights use that argument, it paints a clear picture of the mindset of Zionism, “we lived here millennia ago so we can use kids as target practice for our snipers, flout international law for decades under the protection and dollars of the US and illegally annex territory at will, and it’s the same people who cry about Russia “annexing Ukraine”

            Funny how when it comes to Israel nobody mentions international law or the rules based order that Russia so frequently gets accused of flouting.

          • Uh oh I’ve awakened the ‘Everything’s the Jews fault” brigade ? it’s all a conspiracy those pesky zionists control the world . Good grief man

          • I had an idea you would play the man not the ball, which is the classic default position of any Zionist when debating, “you’re blaming Jews! Anti-semitism!” Pathetic.

            So when people criticize.. let’s say Syria, or Iraq, or ISIS, or Russia, or even the US, how come it’s never “oh here we go let’s blame all the Muslims, or let’s blame all the Russians, let’s blame all the Christians”

            It’s got nothing to do with Jewish people, there are thousands of Jewish people that protest against Zionism, loads of Jewish groups that are anti Zionist.

            Zionism is not Jewish, go read and educate yourself.

          • @ Los Pollos – You do understand the difference between the Zionist political ideology and the Jewish faith don’t you?

            You do understand that it is perfectly valid to criticise a nation’s Government and foreign policy without even knowing their religion don’t you?

            As for lecturing me about ‘calming down’ when I haven’t even made a comment and deliberately avoided any engagement with you because I could see a mile off where you would take it I think you need to wind your neck in. For the record I have Jewish blood so do please call me antisemitic …

          • @Solesurvivor – This is why I have studiously avoided being dragged into their game and refusing to enter into their world. And for that I am accused of ‘ranting’ and I need to ‘calm down’.
            Your analogy is of course perfectly valid. But of course what you missed out was of course the perfect right of some Italian fellah living in Rome who evidently has a right to come to England, kick me out of my home, steal my business and shoot my family if I kick up a fuss because the Romans lived here over 2,000 years ago. People in Bath must be somewhat concerned don’t you think?

          • lol I noticed Chris, you were actually genuinely trying to stay out of this sort of debate, you said it in your first comment, but when they have so much as a hint that you’re not “pro Israel” they will go on the attack, it’s usually always the case.

            Yes that just proves how even more silly the argument is.

    • What the link does not discuss is how a stealth aircraft can be employed to defeat an air defence network. In simple terms the traditional RAF doctrine of low and fast will still defeat the majority of ground based long wavelength radars as the aircraft (target) will get lost in the clutter and land topography. But also depending on the frequency the target will need to above the horizon to be detected. Which if the aircraft is flying at 100ft it is only 12.3 miles away. This is why the airborne radar is a more important requirement at detecting a stealthy target.
      If we consider a F35 on a strike mission, it will not be dropping dumb bombs on a high value target, it will use a Paveway or a guided missile, therefore it will release this weapon some distance from the target. admittedly it will be required to use a loft attack with the Paveway to make sure its not detected as it pops up to gain altitude. With the missile it can stay low to evade detection.
      A stealth aircraft is made up of various components to reduce radar reflection, these are the aircraft’s material composition, minimising control surface gaps, no corner reflectors, incremental shape change (sawtooth forms), conductive and absorbent paint and overall airframe shape. The drawing of the B21 Raider is a brilliant example of how to design an aircraft that has a multi-frequency stealth capability. The smooth flattened shape and has no vertical/canted stabilisers. The wing tips width will still be in the range that could develop the resonance effect. But a lot of this will be negated by targeting that area with radar absorbent material and paint.
      The only real counter is to use bi-static radar techniques, but then the B21 has been designed to minimise reflection from all round. The F35 will struggle to remain undetected against bi-static radars when flying at altitude. But then the aircraft has been designed to be multi-role, so must be aerobatic unlike the B21 which is purely a high altitude bomber.
      The S400 has primarily been designed to counter F35s, it uses multiple radars operating in different frequencies to build a local radar picture. However, it does have a major flaw, for low level defence its uses networked Pantsirs. This system is designed to counter low to medium threats. This uses two radars to detect and track targets. A C band for search and Ku/Ka for tracking with a passive elctro-optical and infrared search and track backup. The current missiles operate using radio command guidance. This then requires the Panstir to maintain constant lock on the target by either radar or with its passive devices.
      Depending on the C band frequency it can generate the resonance affect off targets. The Ku/Ka band will not, this operates at a very small wavelengths (25 to 7.5mm) This will give fantastic target definition however, F35s have been designed to counter these frequencies.
      Therefore, to defeat a S400 or S500 fly low and fast launching ground hugging missiles to take out its radar or command centre, using the local topography to evade the Pantsir’s passive systems.

      • Like Typhoon or Tornado, with longer range air to ground missiles as I have said previously on many occasions. Roll on Tempest, and thank you very much for your detailed and informative reply!

    • @Jack – Nothing to do with Left and Right. Its to do with trust and whether the Israelis, who have never done us any favours, are a State with whom we wish to do business and whom we can trust if we do.

      • Weather we like it or not the Israeli’s do operate under continual threat of attack and very often fly in contested airspace. Getting info on how the F35 performs in real world scenarios could save British pilots in the future.

      • Israel has shared sensitive Intel with The U.K. Netanyahu openly stated this!
        I wouldn’t, for one minute, defend the abuse of software in the public area/domain, but there is a legitimate argument for technological and subversive operations against proscribed terror organisations and rogue theological states.
        We have to remember that Israel is at war with some very nasty/evil characters, who wouldn’t know what democracy, freedom, human rights…were if it/they hit them on the head!
        As for Left and Right? I believe it has a lot to do with it, and that you left that open to discussion by ambiguously stating “on many fronts”.
        Like any nation at war, Israel is having to also fight the propaganda war, which never once (in the left-wing media) brings to task, Hamas, Hezbollah…Islamic Jihad, Iran…who are all openly committed to the annihilation of a Sovereign State.

        • @ Ian – there was nothing ambiguous at all. I had and have no wish to get into the ‘many fronts’ arguments about Israel, its history, 1948, the Palestinian Protectorate and the rest as it is, to this discussion, irrelevant. And those wishing to drag it into this discussion are just out to muddy the waters with the argument that whatever Israel does, whoever it shafts, is perfectly OK because of who they are.

          • But you did leave ambiguity to drag The Palestinian Question into this, and you have! Your post above is indicative of this.

            Back to the article: From a broader view, Israel would also be a valuable addition to the FVEY organisation.

          • @ Ian – What part of:
            “I had and have no wish to get into the ‘many fronts’ arguments”
            Are you struggling with? And btw I mentioned the Palestinian Protectorate which pre-dated Israel. No question there at all its historical fact and I only mentioned THAT in rebuttal of YOUR accusations I was bringing in Left vs Right arguments which I was not.

            You are fabricating something I did not say to create an argument I did not and do not wish to have and then accuse me of ‘ranting’. At least have some honesty.

          • What are you on about Chris H?
            What does Gaza (The (defunct) Palestinian Protectorate) have to do with anything?
            Are you confused with British Mandate Palestine? Which was simply a name brought forward from the Roman Empire?
            Your arguments are rather manic at best and unintelligible in general, that’s why I describe them as “Rants”.

          • @Ian – For someone lecturing others on these matters you seem to have a somewhat vague connection with reality. Or as Churchill said in 1906 a “Terminological inexactitude” when quoting history.
            Now I would dearly love have a battle of wits with you but I confess you seem fundamentally unarmed …

            Toodle Pip

          • @ Ian – And you just ably proved my point that:
            “And those wishing to drag it into this discussion are just out to muddy the waters”

            I was and am discussing cyber security and the possible risks to our military personnel and nothing else. I have twice said I am not getting into any wider debate about Israel. Its really that simple.

          • Kinda like how Britain shafted the Jews after the Balfour declaration allowing them to return to their land during the British mandate of the territory then prevented tens of thousands of Jews from returning by turning the ships away ultimately sending thousands to their deaths in German concentration camps , that’s called getting shafted

            Then in 1948 despite the UN declaration creating the rebirth of the state of Israel . The UN sits idle as Israel is attacked by their Arab neighbours , another shafting only 3 yrs after the ultimate shafting saw 6 million murdered. History doesn’t lie these “shaftings” are there for all to see.

            Is it any wonder then they do whatever it takes including the kind of software abuses we see to keep themselves safe and give themselves the edge to prevent them getting shafted again especially since the aim of those who wish to shaft them is to erase them entirely.

            I realise you don’t like Israel and that’s fine and you don’t want history brought into this but in order to put the issue of the WhatsApp hack into context and it’s relationship to U.K. and Israeli airforces conducting joint training you need to understand the historical aspect so it’s entirely relevant.

            Yes by all means debate whether you think this presents a security risk to our forces but remember this everyone in this website is an armchair general to varying degrees of expertise including me. None of us sit in defence and security meetings , none of us really knows what who where the real threats are and nobody has access to GCHQ intel briefings so let’s trust our security services that they know what they are doing and that exercising with Israeli F35’s is perfectly safe and will not compromise our security.Also let’s not fall out over what is healthy and entertaining debate.
            ????????????????????????????????????????????????

          • @ Los Pollos – I am sorry to disappoint you but I am not taking your bait enticing though it would be to totally destroy your arguments. As I have REPEATEDLY said – here is neither the time or the place for THAT argument.

            At which point (to quote the Dragons) “I am out”

          • Relax man relax might I suggest you take a soothing medicament no need for all this shouting it’s fine honestly you don’t like Israel , you don’t trust the British security services and MOD to be able to gauge whether training with Israeli forces opens us up to threat, and you don’t like history coming into the mix I Get it man……..

            C’est La Vie??

          • @Los Pollos – Tell you what Pal go shove your patronising and personally abusive crap. You are just here to antagonise people because they made a criticism of something that is loosely connected to Israel. And don’t tell me to calm down either … You and people like you are words on a page and nothing more. Trust me you aren’t big enough to stop me being anything but calm.
            #FacePalm

          • Never said anything abusive to you at any time and at no time did I call you anything , you were the one who entered into debate with me and when I challenge you ,you don’t like it . Debate is good I’m not going to get upset because you view things differently or think my views are bollocks . However the comments section is for differing opinions and should be open to challenge. It’s pretty straight forward don’t post if you don’t want people to reply or you are too delicate to handle opposing views or a bit of light jesting. Shame you confuse differing opinion with antagonism.

            But it’s still V funny ?

          • @Los Pollos – Sorry but here is a reality check. I have REPEATEDLY said I will not engage in a wider discussion in Israel. I am discussing cyber capabilities and threats to our military personnel. NOTHING MORE. It is YOU who has been peddling the rest. And because I do NOT engage in all that you have thrown various personal comments my way. Now frankly I could give a rats arse Pal. Trust me I have had worse in my life and you don’t even come close. But lets have some accuracy:
            1) YOU challenged ME. I made the second comment on here and you challenged that.
            2) I refused to engage outside the key issue of cyber security
            3) YOU started the personal stuff with telling me to ‘go take soothing medication’ and to stop ‘shouting’ (when I wasn’t).

            I tried to keep away from other issues but you and your best mate Ian have managed to still create a pointless pissing contest with all the attendant crap. I could debate Israel with you, quote historical facts and how the whole thing started but I will not because people like you do not listen to the arguments. You just project YOUR views and then accuse people who hold a different PoV as anti Jewish which to me with my family background is frankly hilarious. You would not like what my old Uncle Emile used to say about Begin and Netanyahu ….

            Well I have better things to do with my life thank you. So I am out of this.

          • @Chris H – “I have REPEATEDLY said I will not engage in a wider discussion in Israel”

            And yet here you are with your *15th* posting on this article condemning anything Israeli / Jewish / Zionist (take your pick of nomenclature)…

            Actions speak louder than words. Everyone can see from your actions that you turned the comments section towards the political situation of Israel and played the deflection tactic while continuing to argue political points.

            I for one am no fan of the current Israeli government, however, the sharing of IAF operational experience of the F-35 with RAF personnel will be highly useful and should be greatly appreciated.

          • @Jason – Quote:
            “And yet here you are with your *15th* posting on this article condemning anything Israeli / Jewish / Zionist (take your pick of nomenclature)…”

            Well here is my 16th effort to tell you and others who wish to attack me for saying what you allege I have said when in fact I have said nothing against (let alone ‘condemning’) Israel as a country, its Government or whatever and have never even mentioned Zionism other than to educate someone who thought Zionists had to be Jews. To be clear THAT WAS A REPLY and was in NO way a condemnation. I have DELIBERATELY avoided it because of the sort of crap you, Los Pollos and Ian keep posting. For example:
            “Everyone can see from your actions that you turned the comments section towards the political situation of Israel and played the deflection tactic while continuing to argue political points”

            Everyone can’t see that at all Old Son because its bollocks. How can someone AVOIDING that political discussion be in any shape or form continuing it? Its YOU and people like you that are doing the ‘continuing’. So maybe again stop projecting a false premise so you can peddle some abuse and I would suggest you also do not speak for ‘everyone’. Bit presumptuous that!

            I have no wish to get involved in that side of the discussion and I will NOT get involved and no amount of ignorant crap from you and your friends on here will entice me to. Now I realise this is exactly what you are trying to do – you are baiting me to react so you can pile in. Well TOUGH…. and bloody do one.

            How difficult is it to understand when you yourself quote it? There is no ‘deflection’ so do not misrepresent me thank you. There is a refusal to engage but I see you find that a really difficult difference.

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