Local media reports that Israel plans to share its experience operating the F-35 with the US and the UK in an upcoming exercise.
The operational experience acquired by the Israeli Air Force in recent months is of great interest to the United States and other countries that operate the F-35, according to local media.
Last year’s operation fighting in Syria has made the Israeli Air Force one of the most experienced operators of the jet. Local media reported that one of the primary reasons for Israeli involvement was among other things, to share operational experience related to using the aircraft in combat.
The Israeli Air Force and the Royal Air Force are holding a joint exercise soon but it’s currently unclear if this is part of this upcoming exercise in which Israeli jets will visit the UK or an exercise in which British jets will visit Israel, or something new entirely.
Earlier in the year it was confirmed that Israel will join the RAF’s Cobra Warrior exercise in September along with aircraft from Germany and Italy.
The Cobra Warrior exercise traditionally includes crew and aircraft from other allied air forces that train together with their British counterparts in complex combat scenarios. Formerly named the Combined Qualified Weapons Instructor, Cobra Warrior is focussed on providing the combined assessment phase for the RAF’s Weapons Instructors.
An MoD spokesperson told the UK Defence Journal:
“The Israeli Air Force will be participating Exercise Cobra Warrior in Sep 2019. This is the culminating event for the UK’s Weapons Instructor qualification course. The exercise will be run out of RAF Waddington.
The Israeli Air Force role, basing and footprint during Ex Cobra Warrior is yet to be determined. Israel are planning to bring an, as yet, unspecified number of F15 aircraft with appropriate support personnel. Other participants in Ex Cobra Warrior 19 include Germany and Italy.”
It is unknown whether or not this is an additional exercise or whether Israel are now sending F-35 jets to the UK.
Another possibility is that with the Royal Air Force expected to take part in the Israeli Blue Flag 2020 exercise, which would be the first time British aircraft have trained in Israeli airspace however, this is where the joint F-35 exercise will take place.
Last year, Israeli combat pilots attended a joint training seminar with the Typhoon aircrew at RAF Lossiemouth in Scotland, but reportedly did not arrive with their own aircraft.
The idea of training with the Israelis makes me uneasy. Still, we are “allies” with worse.
What is wrong with Israel,they have the experience we need.
@ John Martin – Well that question could open up a difficult debate on many fronts but lets just stick something called ‘trust’. I was somewhat castigated by someone some weeks ago when I expressed concern (nothing more) about an Israeli supplied rescue device that broadcasts a downed pilots position. Excellent idea. My concern was that we would have no idea if this safety device on a pilots harness was also broadcasting where he was BEFORE any emergency. Not a good idea. I was told I was being stupid. We now find out that an Israeli company called NSO Group… Read more »
OK I did not know about what you posted so I guess we have to be careful when dealing with them.
I’m with you Chris also the NSO group seem to be incredibly close to the Israeli government. Considering how many NATO countries are outraged about huawei doing something very similar.
“”I’m with you Chris also the NSO group seem to be incredibly close to the Israeli government. “”
Just for your info, NSO was bought lock stock and barrel by the US in 2014.
Farouk, did I say they were owned by the Israeli govement or did I say incredibly close ties to them.
@faoruk – Well not ‘the US’ but a US based company. And in 2019 it was sold back to its management in Israel.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/.premium-israeli-cyberattack-firm-nso-bought-back-by-founders-at-1b-company-value-1.6937457
And it is clearly very ‘close’ to the Israeli Government. As Wiki states:
“Its former chairman of the board of directors was retired general Avigdor Ben-Gal, previously head of Israel Aircraft Industries in the 1990s. The founders are said to be ex-members of Unit 8200, the Israeli Intelligence Corps unit responsible for collecting signals intelligence”
Considering how the UK has treated Israel in the past, I am sure the “Trust” factor is mutually lacking on their part with regards to HMG.
Two old sayings come to mind in this scenario:
1) The enemy of my enemy is my friend(ally).
2)Keep your friends close and your enemies (or ‘Friends’ that you don’t trust) closer.
Replace “Israelis” with ‘Ugandans’ or ‘Nigerians’, and your comment appears worse. Why do you hate Israel? Is that you, Jeremy? Or you, Adolf? George Galloway?
What on Earth are you talking about, Israelis, Germans, Italians, Ugandans, Brits, American’s etc etc.
Stop looking for something that isn’t there.
Would you call the thousands of Israelis that protest against their own governments actions “Adolf” as well?
Are you not aware the Israelis are first class at what they do they have immense amounts of actual combat experience in operations? . They don’t @&€% about . As for somehow implying they are to be likened with evil dictatorships and are an enemy with your “worse” comment whiffs a bit ? I don’t know if you are aware but Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. They are surrounded by dictatorships and hostile nations who want to destroy them. Don’t believe the propaganda and bias anti Jew anti Israel ? the media pumps out. There never… Read more »
@ Los Pollos – You just demonstrated why I said ‘on many fronts’ and avoided that area of discussion. Suffice to say I fundamentally disagree with your synopsis and version of history. But here is neither the place nor the time. We are discussing security of the UK and its military personnel. However I will correct you on the usually peddled falsehood that it is the only democracy in the Middle East. There are many but right next door to Isreal we have Jordan. A Parliamentary Monarchy modelled on our own arrangements and with which Israel has had a long… Read more »
Chris H, can you take your political rants somewhere else please?
Political views are difficult to keep out of some military discussions, but ranting on about Israel, Zionism, Palestinians…has no connection whatsoever with this article, or any other articles to date, on this site.
@Ian – with the greatest respect that was precisely MY point when I wrote in my first posted reply: “Well that question could open up a difficult debate on many fronts but lets just stick something called ‘trust’” I then posted: “You just demonstrated why I said ‘on many fronts’ and avoided that area of discussion” Followed by: “But here is neither the place nor the time. We are discussing security of the UK and its military personnel” So I am not sure where that can in any way be called a ‘political rant’. Neither was I ‘ranting’ about Israel… Read more »
Hmm well agree to disagree we shall have to. It’s not my version of history it’s simply called history you might not like it but it doesn’t change the fact the ancient land of Canaan (modern Israel) was conquered and occupied by the Romans the revolt of the Jews was finally crushed and the land renamed “provincia Syria – Palestina” from that time forward all those living there were known as ‘Palestinians’ right up till modern times with Arafat (an Egyptian) and his terrorist PLO who stirred up the strife we see today . As for Jordan it is a… Read more »
@ Los Pollos – As I said “But here is neither the place nor the time”
You are not dragging me into this debate thank you.
What a silly argument There was no ancient England either, England was inhabited by Celtic people’s until the Romans came, then the Anglo Saxons and finally the Normans, the native people were pushed west and north, which is why we have wales and Scotland, where do you think the Gaelic language comes from. So I suppose based on your argument if the Welsh/Irish/Scottish highlanders started taking back large areas of England, forcing families from their homes and demolishing them in front of them, started treating us like second class citizens, turning England into an apartheid state you would be fine… Read more »
Uh oh I’ve awakened the ‘Everything’s the Jews fault” brigade ? it’s all a conspiracy those pesky zionists control the world . Good grief man
I had an idea you would play the man not the ball, which is the classic default position of any Zionist when debating, “you’re blaming Jews! Anti-semitism!” Pathetic. So when people criticize.. let’s say Syria, or Iraq, or ISIS, or Russia, or even the US, how come it’s never “oh here we go let’s blame all the Muslims, or let’s blame all the Russians, let’s blame all the Christians” It’s got nothing to do with Jewish people, there are thousands of Jewish people that protest against Zionism, loads of Jewish groups that are anti Zionist. Zionism is not Jewish, go… Read more »
@ Los Pollos – You do understand the difference between the Zionist political ideology and the Jewish faith don’t you?
You do understand that it is perfectly valid to criticise a nation’s Government and foreign policy without even knowing their religion don’t you?
As for lecturing me about ‘calming down’ when I haven’t even made a comment and deliberately avoided any engagement with you because I could see a mile off where you would take it I think you need to wind your neck in. For the record I have Jewish blood so do please call me antisemitic …
@Solesurvivor – This is why I have studiously avoided being dragged into their game and refusing to enter into their world. And for that I am accused of ‘ranting’ and I need to ‘calm down’. Your analogy is of course perfectly valid. But of course what you missed out was of course the perfect right of some Italian fellah living in Rome who evidently has a right to come to England, kick me out of my home, steal my business and shoot my family if I kick up a fuss because the Romans lived here over 2,000 years ago. People… Read more »
lol I noticed Chris, you were actually genuinely trying to stay out of this sort of debate, you said it in your first comment, but when they have so much as a hint that you’re not “pro Israel” they will go on the attack, it’s usually always the case.
Yes that just proves how even more silly the argument is.
Not quite there yet, but in the next five years? It will be interesting to see what advances
have been made when you compare the S400 against the newer S500.
“War in the Sky: Russia’s S-400 vs. America’s Stealth F-35 and F-22 (Who Wins?)”
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/war-sky-russias-s-400-vs-americas-stealth-f-35-and-f-22-who-wins-26791
What the link does not discuss is how a stealth aircraft can be employed to defeat an air defence network. In simple terms the traditional RAF doctrine of low and fast will still defeat the majority of ground based long wavelength radars as the aircraft (target) will get lost in the clutter and land topography. But also depending on the frequency the target will need to above the horizon to be detected. Which if the aircraft is flying at 100ft it is only 12.3 miles away. This is why the airborne radar is a more important requirement at detecting a… Read more »
Like Typhoon or Tornado, with longer range air to ground missiles as I have said previously on many occasions. Roll on Tempest, and thank you very much for your detailed and informative reply!
Not a big surprise since the American taxpayer bought Israel their F-35s.
Oh dear the lefties won’t be happy. They don’t like Israel…
@Jack – Nothing to do with Left and Right. Its to do with trust and whether the Israelis, who have never done us any favours, are a State with whom we wish to do business and whom we can trust if we do.
Weather we like it or not the Israeli’s do operate under continual threat of attack and very often fly in contested airspace. Getting info on how the F35 performs in real world scenarios could save British pilots in the future.
Israel has shared sensitive Intel with The U.K. Netanyahu openly stated this! I wouldn’t, for one minute, defend the abuse of software in the public area/domain, but there is a legitimate argument for technological and subversive operations against proscribed terror organisations and rogue theological states. We have to remember that Israel is at war with some very nasty/evil characters, who wouldn’t know what democracy, freedom, human rights…were if it/they hit them on the head! As for Left and Right? I believe it has a lot to do with it, and that you left that open to discussion by ambiguously stating… Read more »
@ Ian – there was nothing ambiguous at all. I had and have no wish to get into the ‘many fronts’ arguments about Israel, its history, 1948, the Palestinian Protectorate and the rest as it is, to this discussion, irrelevant. And those wishing to drag it into this discussion are just out to muddy the waters with the argument that whatever Israel does, whoever it shafts, is perfectly OK because of who they are.
But you did leave ambiguity to drag The Palestinian Question into this, and you have! Your post above is indicative of this.
Back to the article: From a broader view, Israel would also be a valuable addition to the FVEY organisation.
@ Ian – What part of:
“I had and have no wish to get into the ‘many fronts’ arguments”
Are you struggling with? And btw I mentioned the Palestinian Protectorate which pre-dated Israel. No question there at all its historical fact and I only mentioned THAT in rebuttal of YOUR accusations I was bringing in Left vs Right arguments which I was not.
You are fabricating something I did not say to create an argument I did not and do not wish to have and then accuse me of ‘ranting’. At least have some honesty.
What are you on about Chris H?
What does Gaza (The (defunct) Palestinian Protectorate) have to do with anything?
Are you confused with British Mandate Palestine? Which was simply a name brought forward from the Roman Empire?
Your arguments are rather manic at best and unintelligible in general, that’s why I describe them as “Rants”.
@Ian – For someone lecturing others on these matters you seem to have a somewhat vague connection with reality. Or as Churchill said in 1906 a “Terminological inexactitude” when quoting history.
Now I would dearly love have a battle of wits with you but I confess you seem fundamentally unarmed …
Toodle Pip
@ Ian – And you just ably proved my point that:
“And those wishing to drag it into this discussion are just out to muddy the waters”
I was and am discussing cyber security and the possible risks to our military personnel and nothing else. I have twice said I am not getting into any wider debate about Israel. Its really that simple.
Kinda like how Britain shafted the Jews after the Balfour declaration allowing them to return to their land during the British mandate of the territory then prevented tens of thousands of Jews from returning by turning the ships away ultimately sending thousands to their deaths in German concentration camps , that’s called getting shafted Then in 1948 despite the UN declaration creating the rebirth of the state of Israel . The UN sits idle as Israel is attacked by their Arab neighbours , another shafting only 3 yrs after the ultimate shafting saw 6 million murdered. History doesn’t lie these… Read more »
@ Los Pollos – I am sorry to disappoint you but I am not taking your bait enticing though it would be to totally destroy your arguments. As I have REPEATEDLY said – here is neither the time or the place for THAT argument.
At which point (to quote the Dragons) “I am out”
Relax man relax might I suggest you take a soothing medicament no need for all this shouting it’s fine honestly you don’t like Israel , you don’t trust the British security services and MOD to be able to gauge whether training with Israeli forces opens us up to threat, and you don’t like history coming into the mix I Get it man……..
C’est La Vie??
@Los Pollos – Tell you what Pal go shove your patronising and personally abusive crap. You are just here to antagonise people because they made a criticism of something that is loosely connected to Israel. And don’t tell me to calm down either … You and people like you are words on a page and nothing more. Trust me you aren’t big enough to stop me being anything but calm.
#FacePalm
Never said anything abusive to you at any time and at no time did I call you anything , you were the one who entered into debate with me and when I challenge you ,you don’t like it . Debate is good I’m not going to get upset because you view things differently or think my views are bollocks . However the comments section is for differing opinions and should be open to challenge. It’s pretty straight forward don’t post if you don’t want people to reply or you are too delicate to handle opposing views or a bit of… Read more »
@Los Pollos – Sorry but here is a reality check. I have REPEATEDLY said I will not engage in a wider discussion in Israel. I am discussing cyber capabilities and threats to our military personnel. NOTHING MORE. It is YOU who has been peddling the rest. And because I do NOT engage in all that you have thrown various personal comments my way. Now frankly I could give a rats arse Pal. Trust me I have had worse in my life and you don’t even come close. But lets have some accuracy: 1) YOU challenged ME. I made the second… Read more »
@Chris H – “I have REPEATEDLY said I will not engage in a wider discussion in Israel” And yet here you are with your *15th* posting on this article condemning anything Israeli / Jewish / Zionist (take your pick of nomenclature)… Actions speak louder than words. Everyone can see from your actions that you turned the comments section towards the political situation of Israel and played the deflection tactic while continuing to argue political points. I for one am no fan of the current Israeli government, however, the sharing of IAF operational experience of the F-35 with RAF personnel will… Read more »
@Jason – Quote: “And yet here you are with your *15th* posting on this article condemning anything Israeli / Jewish / Zionist (take your pick of nomenclature)…” Well here is my 16th effort to tell you and others who wish to attack me for saying what you allege I have said when in fact I have said nothing against (let alone ‘condemning’) Israel as a country, its Government or whatever and have never even mentioned Zionism other than to educate someone who thought Zionists had to be Jews. To be clear THAT WAS A REPLY and was in NO way… Read more »
F35 flight in Cyprus is irrelevant to the subject. RAF just wants some power in the area.