The location and status of Britain’s F-35 fleet has been listed by the Ministry of Defence.
The information came to light in a response to a written question submitted in the House of Commons.
Mark Francois, Member of Parliament for Rayleigh and Wickford, asked:
“To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, what the (a) location and (b) operational status is of each of the 48 F-35 aircraft on order from Lockheed Martin.”
Jeremy Quin, Minister of State at the Ministry of Defence, responded:
“21 Lightning aircraft have been delivered to the UK by Lockheed-Martin. The remaining 27 aircraft remain at various stages of production.
The location of the 21 delivered aircraft in mid-July 2021 is broken down as follows:
17 Squadron, Edwards AFB USA – Three
207 Squadron, RAF Marham – Eight
617 Squadron embarked on HMS Queen Elizabeth – Eight
RAF Marham Maintenance and Finishing Facility – Two”
How many F-35Bs is the UK hoping to purchase?
The First Sea Lord said previously during a webcast that the UK intends to purchase ‘around 60’ F-35B jets and then ‘maybe more up to around 80’ for four deployable squadrons.
According to the recently released Defence Command Paper released today titled ‘Defence in a Competitive Age’, the UK intends to increase the fleet size beyond the 48 F-35 aircraft it has already ordered.
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Hi folks hope all are well.
Nice to be kept updated. However I’d like to see more information about the proposed increase in numbers.
HM government needs to be more informative in demonstrating a firm commitment in placing orders for an increase. So far so good.
Cheers,
George
Absolutely George, they should really get on with it and order more and sooner. Even it’s a block 3.5 or why not bring the block 4 forward? Have the will, find a way.
I’m with the Govt on this one. If this is their strategy…dear LM and US Inc.. no more orders with upgrade contracts to follow….till you are ready and able to supply the product we want and you have been contracted to, and have been developing, for decades. LM and US Inc are milking it.
too true
Couldnt agree more, pointless ordering aircraft to then have to alter them later, spend this years budget on other stuff like new ships and when LM finally release the platforms we want take them out of that years budget.
Theres a suggestion they are withholding orders as a stick to ensure Lockheed progresses weapon integration. After they place an order they lose some of their leverage if the manufacturer decides to reprioritise resources.
The usual reply from the Minister, with a Delphic statement that there are more in production, but he doesn’t say when they will be delivered. Do we have any inkling as to when 809 squadron will actually be formed, obviously it can’t be at present because there are no aircraft, unless they take some from the trainers at 207.
Can’t quite recall where I read it but I believe the final deliveries of the 48 on order has slipped by a year or 2 which means 809 NAS won’t now stand up until 2025 (it was 2023).
They have slipped due to the issues that LM are having with the rollout of Blk4 software, throwing Turkey out of the programme (parts due to be manufactured by Turkey need sourcing elsewhere) and current issues P&W are having with engine reliability to name but a few!
Incorrect. The last batch was slipped by the UK by one year as a cost saving measure.
There is that too!!
Yes
It’s a mess which ever way you look at it.
Im intrigued, whys it a mess?
Maybe he’s looking at it from a different angle than the rest of us. To me it seems like it’s relatively well planned out for once.
Me too, possibly a slight slow down of inervening numbers but end state should be the same.
Personally I think F35 is progressing slowly but surely, which is fine by me when an undertaking as complex as reintroducing carrier fixed wing capabilities is involved.
What’s the rush with BIV integration costs?
The fleet is evenly split between the OCU and 1st operational squadron.
Why ?
Why order early batch less capable and more expensive aircraft earlier than take more capable cheaper aircraft a little later?
The ordering is bang on with this im afraid.
ZM156, the 22nd F35B for the UK is currently undergoing its flight testing at Lockheed Martin in the US, which suggests that the fleet at Marham will be growing this year as there are (I believe) another 5 UK airframes slated for delivery in 2021 as part of the overall fleet size growing and NAS 809 reforming next year : https://www.f-16.net/g3/f-35-photos/album502/album521/ZM156
Nice that Francois is keeping the Government under pressure about the state of our Armed Forces…
It is time the unquestioning supporters of the F-35 started to recognise the serious problems rather than just regurgitating Lockheed’s propaganda.
On 7 July the US Government Accountability Office (GAO) released a report that concluded if current costs continue the US will be unable to operate the F-35 at numbers planned and required. Even allowing for the cost reductions already achieved the GAO report concludes,quote. “the service’s only available remaining options to meet the affordability constraints are to reduce the total number of F-35A aircraft they plan to purchase, or to reduce the aircraft’s planned flying hours.”
The GAO report is damning and there is little evidence that Lockheed’s promises on support costs can or will be realised. One interesting detail is that even if spare parts were provided free, the labour costs of support and maintenance would blow the USAF’s planned budget.
If costs cannot be further reduced and the US is unable fund and operate the required numbers of F-35’s it is absolutely certain that the UK cannot purchase the planned 138 aircraft.
If Tempest does not arrive in time, is there a case to do what the US has done, by ordering F15’s and even considering an F16 replacement, for the UK to place a top up order of enhanced Typhoon’s?
Think we need to realise especially if US cuts orders it will drive our costs sky high. Maybe we need to realise F35 will be speciallity aircraft hopefully lanca/mosquito loyal wingman will fill the gaps. 1 F35 with 3 drones maybe. I refuse to believe the cousins havent got a top end jet drone already flying at skunk works.
More Important issue that is still being ignored, HOW MANY PILOTS DO WE HAVE TRAINED.
never gets answered last count it was guestimated 11.
Way more than that, where did you get that figure from, its actualy nearer 30 plus.
Currently the last guestimate from the National Audit office is or was 14.
Based on Red Flag USA
UK sent 5 F35s with 10 pilots in play.
3 Pilots completed their carrier ops on QE in the north sea.
now allowing for the pilots based in the USA. the 3 final pilots were the last in the chain.
As the NAO confirms the RAF is so far behind on its training program and its taking longer.
IF THE UK HAD 30 pilots ready why is there only 10 on the QE NOW. we would have no need for the USMC.
Also explains the slower delivery process and the failure of the training program, F35s take a different pilot than say the Typhoon.
Does the NAO do guestimates? Wow that’s hardly scientific. So if there were 11, (although you now say 14, but let’s stick with your 11 for now) and you say 10 are on the QE, you are now telling me there is just 1 pilot sat at Marham, and there are no IPs taking any sort of training or any trained F35 pilots left in the UK? Sorry Johan your own figures confirm that having just 11 trained pilots isn’t realistic at this time. Now I’m just Army, and a casual observer to the F35 saga, but to have just 1 trained F35 pilot in the UK as not realistic and not the way it would be planned. As for training we all know RAF training is slower than it should be, but as over 50% of F35 training is planned to be synthetic then it won’t (shouldn’t) have a long term impact. But what do I know when we have so many keyboard experts knocking about, cheers.
The major factor in having the amount of F35’s we do is a combination of money and very sensibly waiting for the next batch upgrade to be available on the planes before taking them.
We didnt put more aircraft on the QE for a number of a reasons, one of those is training itself and keeping aircraft based in the UK for people to train on.
The numbers you are making up are just that, made up.
We know what the delivery schedule is
– 20 by end 2020
– 7 in 2021, the first of which delivered
– 8 in 2022
– 7 in 2023
and one assumes the final 6 of the 48 order in 2024.. All seems to be proceeding to plan so far.
I think it was said that 809 squadron would not stand up until 2024, not 2023, due to RN pilot recruitment and training time. That ties in fine with the delivery schedule.
It makes sense not to rush ahead ordering more until LM sorts out some of the big issues – the ALIS system, which is still dysfunctional, the reliability issues with the engine, the very high operating cost and, in our case, weapon integration. A big issue for the budget is the Block 4 upgrade, which will allegeldly cost £20m per aircraft, increasing the unit cost to £100m.
Going by Typhoon FGR4 and F-35 deliveries, the budget for new fastjet aircraft is about £600m pa, so max of 6 F-35s a year on any further order. But there will need to be a 2-year gap in deliveries at some point while we fork out for Block 4. It is going to be a slow process.
“ 809 squadron would not stand up until 2024, not 2023, due to RN pilot recruitment and training time” 809 is jointly staffed, same as 617, 60% RAF, 40% RN. Not sure this can be described as RN pilot recruitment,