The United Kingdom’s Defence Secretary, Ben Wallace, announced on Thursday during a meeting with fellow defence ministers at the Tapa army base in Estonia, that the country plans to provide military support to Ukraine.

The support package includes the provision of 600 Brimstone missiles, as well as Challenger tanks, to assist Ukraine in its ongoing conflict with Russia.

“I can say we’re also going to send another 600 Brimstone missiles into theatre which will be incredibly important in helping Ukraine dominate the battlefield,” he said.

Here’s the full rundown.

“The United Kingdom’s accelerated package consists of a squadron of Challenger 2 tanks with armoured recovery and repair vehicles; AS90 self-propelled 155mm guns, while preserving their commitment in Estonia; hundreds more armoured and protected vehicles; a manoeuvre support package, including minefield breaching and bridging capabilities; dozens more un-crewed aerial systems to support Ukrainian artillery; another 100,000 artillery rounds; hundreds more sophisticated missiles including GMLRS rockets, Starstreak air defence missiles, and medium range air defence missiles; 600 Brimstone anti-tank munitions; an equipment support package of spares to refurbish up to a hundred Ukrainian tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

The package is further augmented by continuing basic training and junior leadership training for the AFU in the UK with 9 International partners. With the aim of training around a further 20 000 AFU personnel in 2023.

The UK is also coordinating the International Fund for Ukraine which has raised almost £600M with partners. The first package of support from the fund will be announced shortly.”

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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237 COMMENTS

  1. Wonderfull news! In the defence of the UK the frontline against Russia is in the Ukraine. Meanwhile Germany sits on it’s arse and prevaricates on the supply of Leopard tanks.

    • I don’t know if Germany are or have positioned themselves as the leaders of the EU militarily but they have shown themselves to be severely lacking in this respect. When it calls for big decisions they can’t make the call. They should pass the baton to Poland and let them get on with it.

      • How can Germany realistically expect anyone to follow their leadership in military matters ? They are not a permanent member of the UN Security Council, they are not a nuclear power and are completely spineless.
        Besides which why would anyone with a single brain cell follow a country with over a century of complete 100% Military failure ?

        Just pointing out the obvious 🤔

        • Trump was the only POTUS with the guts to tell Germany, Merkel, to pull her finger out of her arse and start providing for their own defense. Merkel and the liberal media just ignored Trump. Just another thing Trump was right about.

          • So Trump was right in his decisions twice a day, every day … for 4 years! A nice compliment to him, Sean.

          • Trump only repeated what people had been saying for years and tried to own it.
            The message was directed at a lot more nato members including Germany as well.
            Alot of nato countries never actually thought they would have to use armed forces. The silliest mistake politicians make is to think everyone in the world thinks and acts the same way they do.

          • Frightening now to think how naive so many have been. Again today we get the ‘no nuclear armed Country will allow itself to lose a conventional war’ from Putin’s attack dog Medvedev. Equally the Foreign Ministry claims it will not allow military infrastructure to exist close up ‘threatening’ its borders. So it seems every time it expands it’s borders it’s effectively saying anyone beyond those borders (didn’t state a distance) must disarm or it seems they will be threatened and invaded in yet a new ‘defensive’ war which ultimately if they look like losing will use nuclear weapons. It seems despite being the biggest geographical Country in the World they will never have enough defensive land to feel safe. The insanity coming out of that Country be it real or feigned is mind blowing.

          • Europe is not just Germany.
            Do not forget that Trump drooled over Putin. Would he have spent a penny on Ukraine? I think not.

          • Would he have spent a penny on Ukraine?

            Maybe you should get information of who was the first US president to send lethal equipment to Ukraine…

            Trump was right about a lot of stuff. He was just clumsy and his worst enemy.

            Obama: Putin invades Ukraine Crimea
            Trump: nothing
            Biden: Putin invades remaining Ukraine

          • All part of Putin’s plan, he was banking on Trump being President in which case Ukraine would likely have now been vanquished and he was hoping the Senate and HofR would have gone in an avalanche to Trump acolytes and now that failed he is simply holding out sustaining the war hoping for Trump or a Trumpalike in the White House forcing Ukraine to give up half its Country under the banner America First under the delusion it doesn’t effect them despite it in reality creating new threats to Europe, threatens the Atlantic Alliance only delays Russian attacks on Ukraine and likely the Baltics, Moldova and Finland amongst others creating the ground work for the New World Order Russia and China aim for and most of the World seeing the writing on the wall and no innate love of the US and the West will turn to leaving the US an island in a hostile World with ever decreasing other islands to play with. In the end that’s what America First in Trumpest terms will lead to and Putin read and understood that underlying text far better than Trump and his hangers on and gullible supporters ever could comprehend. Talk about butterflies in South American jungles flapping their wings eh.

          • In my view probably the only thing he was right about. At one stage Germany only had 7 Typhoons flyable, barely any tanks too so yes it was right to give them one big kick, their maniacal faith in Russian political and military intentions despite all the evidence to the contrary while being happy to sell its weapons to others to benefit its ultra powerful economy while letting others often less well off preserving their independence. Totally mad and unsustainable and right that a U.S. President (shame a French on didn’t too) told them how it is, even if he was more interested in getting one over Germany in the doing to look good at home which I’m sure only encouraged Putin to pursue his overall plan to intimidate Europe and separate it from the US so as to control it by fossil fuels, ominous threat and manipulation threatening individual Countries economic and political Independence allowing a breeding ground for its mafia like gangs and State sponsored thuggish Oligarchs and even Wagner as is happening in Serbia. Of course Removing military infrastructure from hundreds of miles beyond its own borders as Russia demands, only empowers this infiltrating clandestine influence far deeper into Europe uncontested and through fear emasculates even law enforcements ability to even dare combat it.

          • This Ukraine war would never have happened if President Trump was still in power. No show of weakness in Afghanistan, that empowered Putin.

          • Mate, pulling out of Afghanistan (and at such short notice) was his deal.

            The Biden adminstration even had to extend the deadline, infuriating the Taliban.

          • Completely wrong I’m afraid. Trump negotiated a US contingent remaining at it’s base but pulling out a large number. Biden pulled them ALL out with no notice of the change of plan – to the utter shock of their Allies and the Afghan Government. Facts, dear boy, bring light!

          • Indeed. Under Trump, the Ukraine wouldn’t have got the support it got to fight back. Without Biden’s support leading the way – and – early warnings to Ukraine – Russia would likely have succeeded with its initial attack.

          • There wouldn’t have been a war because either; the Russians would have backed down in the face of a strong US stance. Or a solution would have been found, removing any alleged justification Putin had to invade Ukraine.

            You are obviously aware of the well recorded persecution of Russian speakers and ethnic Russians by Kiev/Ukrainian nationalists, post 2014. It was the justification given to the Russian people for the military intervention.

          • As I recall, it was President Trump who actually delivered Ukraine actual military aid, rather than just talk about it. He did not try to blackmail Ukraine by insisting they first sack the man investigating Hunter Biden’s corrupt dealing with the Burisma oligarchs. That would be Russian oligarchs BTW. The quid pro Joe even boasted about it in front of TV cameras!

          • You mean the ‘deal’ in Doha that he, er ,”negotiated” with the Taliban?

            Ironically, you could be correct though, had Trump still been in power last February, it is most likely that he would have shared US military and intelligence assessments of Ukraine with Putin, withheld aid to Ukraine, blocked sanctions against Russia and probably tried to pulled the US out of Nato . He would have facilitated his boss Putin in any way he could, thereby enabling Russian forces to overwhelm Ukraine.

          • Not exactly the deal because quid pro Joe is a weak corrupt senile old fool. You will remember the quote from Pres. Trump. “If bad things happen, we’ll go back with a force like no-one’s ever seen.”
            ISIS know what that feels like. When the US military is ordered to eliminate an enemy and given free rein to do what is necessary. The Afghani Taliban and Al Qaida do not.

          • True to a point, the US military, if given free rein would destroy all opposition. However, I wouldn’t put too much credence in Trump’s statements, not only was he outflank by the Taliban in his Doha deal, but he also abruptly terminated the US military campaign against ISIS, not for any operational reasons, but most likely because he wanted to suck up to Putin.

            Defence Secretary Mattis , someone who knows what he’s talking about, considered it one of the most catastrophic decisions taken. “Felony stupid ” I think was his term for it.

          • Trump was Putin’s glove puppet and a lot of his supporters are still pro-Putin. It was his work to undermine NATO and his “run away” policy in Afghanistan that gave Putin the go ahead to do what he wanted. Trump praised Putin for the Invasion of Crimea. He sided with Russian lies when they shot downan airliner. He couldn’t even outwit the fat boy with the bad haircut in Korea. Note that it is Trump supporting Republicans who have attempted to stop military aid to Ukraine. Biden just didn’t reverse the Trump initiatives because he is almost as isolationist as hTrump. To suggest that the loud mouthed coward would ave done anything other than carry on grovelling to Putin is laughable.

          • The only word applicable to your comment is delusional. Pres. Trump and Sec. Def Pompeo were tough and realistic when dealing with Russia.

          • Yes, George, the Trump-Russia collusion hoax, perpetrated on the American people by the Democrats continues to get traction amongst the unread. Now the Republicans have the House, this deep and vey real conspiracy against Trump’s Presidency will be fully exposed.

          • Cult member! That’s rich coming from a rabid TDS sufferer.

            Trading insults aside. A leader of a nation annexes a large part of a neighbouring country Crimea, without firing a shot or being opposed with force by the sitting US President Obama. I would describe that as a piece of evil genius too. Akin to reoccupying the Rhineland, annexing Austria (Anschluss), taking the Sudetenland and then Czechoslovakia. Right under the noses of the allies. FYI, Allied generals admired the achievements of Rommel and Kesselring too, without accusations of being their best buddies. It just so happened that Donetsk and Luhansk turned out to be Putin’s Poland. It’s the way the game has been played in Europe for hundreds of years.

            After being told by Pres. Trump. “No you can’t do that.”
            Putin waited for him to leave office and biden to run from Afghanistan. Before chancing his hand. Did you miss that in your politico article.

            At least Pres. Trump didn’t ship millions and millions of cash dollars to Russia by military transport plane. Which is exactly what Obama and Biden have done to axis of evil Iran, twice! The worlds leading sponsor of terrorism. Neither did Pres. Trump sell Putin’s Russia, huge amounts of American enriched Uranium like Obama/Clinton.

            Your righteous indignation is as bitter and twisted as your politics. You have a nice day now.

            TDS – Trump Derangement Syndrome.

          • Do you have anything factual to respond with other than talking points from the right wing swamp? I won’t turn this into a political debate on a defence site but your entire post is so easily disproven it’s hard to believe that someone in 2023 is still repeating the rubbish that was shown to be rubbish several years ago.

          • Every statement is factually correct.
            Your righteous indignation is as bitter and twisted as your politics. You have a nice day now.

          • Hahaha

            You didn’t rebut even one of the things that is publicly documented for everyone to see. Avoided them at all cost. You got nothing huh? lol.

            You have a lovely day as well.

          • Every statement made was factually correct. If you think otherwise then support your assertions with evidence. Not adhominems.

            For example, the cargo planes loaded with cash that the Obama/Biden syndicate supplied to Iran. It is true, they admitted to it. Even negotiating with iranian terrorists in the process. So nameless individual, either put up or shut up soft lad.

          • Short of the Leclerc MBT the next best thing is the AMX10R which France is offering to the Ukraine. The Leclerc is a good tank but untried in real combat and isn’t as numerous as the Leopard 2.
            Quite simply the Leopard is the best fit for them, spares, ammunition and lots of countries able to supply some.
            All they need is Germany to understand that the best way to ensure the safety of Germany is to help the UA reduce the threat.
            Personally I’d take a completely different tack and ask Germany if they are willing to supply the U.K. with Leopard 2 tanks 1 for 1 for every CH2 we supply to the UA and give them the lot.
            And then build a better tank from scratch.

      • Totally agree. Sadly however, once the dust settles and 🇪🇺 begins to uparm, I can see Germany being first in line to sell its wares. And many will buy.

      • Not sure what is going on with Germany and the tanks, but it’s not just them. The US has a large stockpile of tanks it could offer but it’s not doing so. I really don’t get the nervousness of it, with the amount of kit already supplied there is no question now that it would cause any response from Russia as that would have happened months ago. The only thing that makes sense is they are nervous that the tanks won’t perform as good as promised when actually battle tested against a near peer opponent.

        • Perhaps the nervousness is Russia getting it hands on modern NATO tanks, or wondering what Putin might do if the Ukrainians threw the Russians out? That would finish Putin, unless he pulled an unexpected rabbit out the hat first. Maybe even a nuclear one.

          FWIW, I can’t see that happening and think he’ll be forced to the negotiating table to agree to leave, with some face-saving concessions to crow about.

          • Hello Jon. Before 1945 and subsequently, all conflicts including some civil conflicts, were resolved by negotiation. The problem here is Putin wants the lot and has trumpeted this aim plus advances against other countries. He’d have to go and then a successor negotiate. But I cannot see this happening at present.

            So far, I judge the U.K.-U.S. position is Putin is sawing steadily at the branch that supports him and that suits them. Perhaps not poor Ukraine.

            Putin is a bastard and has to be stopped, sooner rather than later.

          • Putin’s only justification to his own people for military action in Ukraine. Has been the well reported (if a little exaggerated) persecution of ethnic Russians and other minorities, particularly Romani and Rusyns – note the spelling. By right wing nationalists, who are openly following the doctrine of Stepan Bandera. Hence the NAZI and denazification propaganda. Clever really. Col. Putin is behaving exactly as expected for someone proud of his training and indoctrination. Once a KGB officer, always a KGB officer.

            The justification/foundation for Putin’s actions are also the weakness of his position. Ending ethnic persecution by partition or relocation is achievable. See the former Yugoslavia, where things were much worse. It is the route to meaningful UN negotiations and possibly peace. But NATO/EU, must not add fuel to the fire by making this a potential drive on Moscow, using western MBTs. That will have one effect on the Russian people. They will unite behind their leader like never before and everything changes. Nuclear war being a very real possibility. Many do not like Putin but as they frequently say. “He is our leader and our problem, not yours. We are Russians.”

            Your average Ivan has 29 million reasons to fear invasion from the West by Nazi/fascist forces. The old soviet state and KGB, cultivated that fear and used it very successfully.

          • Thank you this measured response. I completely agree with two of your points: Discrimination against ethnic Russian communities must be part of the international conversation. I don’t believe any sane person wishes for a ‘drive on Moscow’. That too can be easily made plain.

          • You are very welcome Barry.
            We know that no sane person wishes to do it. But the important thing is how it is spun to the Russian people. What they believe will determine what happens next.
            It is one thing to explain military intentions to astute, crafty Kremlin negotiators. But making it plain to the average Russian citizen may not be as easy as you think. Western democracies generally do very badly in propaganda wars against more totalitarian regimes. Modern Russia and it’s people have better access to the web than ever before. However, it is a double edged sword given the FSBs cyber warfare capabilities.

            Supplying 14 Challenger 2 tanks may not be enough to drive on Moscow. In truth the logistical burden for such a small number will be counter productive. Farcical actually and the Russian military know it. But in the hands of the FSB info warriors, it will feed their propaganda machine like mana from heaven. Add the numerous reports of hundreds of very fast German made Leo 2 panzers being prepared for supply. Suddenly the Rodina is threatened and full mobilisation warranted. Images of ethnic Russians from Donetsk and Luhansk, digging tank ditches and trenches are already being broadcast on Russian TV.

            The Ukrainian border is only 250 miles from the outskirts of Moscow, over nicely frozen tank friendly steppe. Russians have not been permitted to forget what happens when Panzers cross their borders.

        • Well fact is even the US struggled to support the Abrams in the gulf war and it was surrounded by oil. 3 miles to the gallon and horrendously difficult to maintain. So the logic that the Ukrainians would seriously struggle to operate them in their environment is totally valid. That said why not offer 15 to 20 or so of their redundant ones more as a Token to force Germany to at least allow the 5 to 7 other Countries to supply Leopards. If nothing else the Abrams like the Challengers would make a great defensive or reserve line north of Kyiv or near Kherson or similar.

          • M60A3 would be good for Ukraine. Perhaps the US swaps surplus M1A1 for Taiwan’s M60A3, then gives M60A3 to Ukraine?

        • I’m not sure the Abrahams would be a good fit for Ukraine, I could see that turbine engine causing them problems when and if it breaks down, Leopards would be a much better fit in my book. On the plus side I see from the package the US announced this morning that it does include Stryker and I also note there is a variant that has a 105m gun, I wonder if they might be included in the package?

          • You and Spy (plus a few more) have got this correctly as far as I am concerned.

            This war. Stuff the Germans; who is it that really defends Germany today? Send in the Leopards.

        • Politics comes into the equation – sending ex-Soviet hand me downs is somehow acceptable but sending modern western Tanks from current stocks is seen as an escalation.

          • I don’t get that. I can’t understand why it’s an escalation over providing HIMARS and artillery which fundamentally changed the equation in the favour of Ukraine. Not saying it’s not the reason, but it doesn’t make sense.

          • It doesn’t make sense i agree – from what i understand Herr Scholz is being vary cautious and looking to the USA and saying ‘you first’.

          • I am wondering if all countries are at the same game. Germany keeps saying it hasn’t blocked and transfers, so if true then Poland is just blaming Germany to avoid doing anything. Are all countries playing a giant game of chicken.

            Maybe a coincidence but almost immediately after Boris said he was flying to Ukraine, Sunak announced Chally tanks being issued, could vanity utimiately unlock this with the UK blinking first.

          • I think it is because tanks (with accompanying infantry) can take and hold ground (ground that the Russians had control over, but then don’t).

        • I own, armchair, view is that the Abrams needing speacial attrntion and jet fuel might be a bigger stumbling block.

          Germany need not send many more Leopards than the British are planning to send Challenger 2’s. The real Leopard numbers would come from other countries once Germany agrees. If it agrees ..

          • The Abrams gas turbine engine can run on Jet or standard diesel. It doesn’t really matter. Jet fuel is slightly safer, as it has a higher flash point than diesel.

            The other question is what would Germany actually do, if Poland, Finland etc gave Ukraine some Leopard 2s?

          • That’s the case with everything donated to a lessor or greater degree. There were stories not long ago that all the donated gear was out of service getting repairs outside Ukraine, who knows if true. Whether true or not I’m sure they made a difference whilst they worked.

        • The problem with the American Abrams is it is high maintenance requirements and its fuel consumption of its gas turbine power plant. The leopard is a better procurement for Ukraine

      • The E.U. supposedly has no ‘leadership’ but Germany is the only country that counts. Hence the E.U. is nick named the Fourth Reich. The talk about raising an E.U. (German) Army was accelerated by Europe’s contempt for the United States democratic election of Donald Trump – the same United States that re-financed the entire Continent after the fascist era – and was pure politics. I agree about Poland excepting I wouldn’t ask Germany for the baton. Finland joining N.A.T.O. is also a win.

        I have German connections and like the country in many ways but politics – well …

      • Ouch! I have a little bit more respect for Biden than you have. Let’s not forget the support packages that the USA have already given to the Ukraine.. * Huge amount and more to come* I prefer Biden to be in power now.. Trump could of been a disaster in this crisis/situation.

        • Nope! Biden said a little incursion is OK. It was Biden who pulled our marines out, clearing the path for Russia. It was Biden who hesitated and said Ukraine should negotiate and not fight. It was the Americans that delayed stinger missiles. Biden is the kind of guy who won’t make a decision until the gang gets together and chants ‘go joe go. He advised Obama not to strike Osama in case something goes wrong. The only nation that stood up right away while America quivered was Great Britain.

          • It’s true. His blundering demolition of US strategic ambiguity on the matter of Ukraine is a matter of record.

          • Nope! As I said before.. I’m greatly relieved that the current president of the United States is ‘Biden’. By the way.. Another 2.5 Billion dollar package announced by the US administration for the Ukraine today. When it comes to my own country (UK) Yes, the Brit’s are giving excellent support to the Ukraine. Whatever you say about Biden, I’m glad that he is in the White House not Trump.

          • Me???
            I didn’t and don’t like either one and voted 3rd party. I know I sound cynical, but to me, there is little difference. I was shocked, absolutely shocked when Trump won his first primary and became the nominee. Moving on, it will be interesting if the Germans can be turned around and ship those tanks. Once again, Great Britain is leading the way. Sincerely, Randy Anderson

          • Good to see Germany sending tanks soon. Hugely important move. Perhaps more will be sent further down the line. I think the Leopard and challenger MBT will be first. Abrahams later, but still all very welcome to hear.

        • May not be popular with some but the damage he has done in international relations and the horrendous internal rifts that were and likely again will be close to civil war and a total disregard for foreign affairs have created the whole environment for foreign dictators to preach NWO and see the opportunity to exploit the weakness it now portrays to the World while the rest of us become collateral.

        • ‘Could’. Wasn’t.

          I am not an American so my opinion is not significant I suppose. Donald J.Trump is everything his detractors say about him but his record in office demonstrates why so many blue collar Yanks adore him. In many ways flawed human beings make good politicians whereas the more humane ones are the worst. Sadly that’s our world. But, I suggest, paradoxically, many more people around the world are better for the past actions of men and women we wouldn’t invite into our own homes.

          • My comments above are about Trump/Biden and the current crisis in Europe (Ukraine). That is why I prefer Biden. There are many more comments I could make about Trump/Biden and there politics, but that is not for today. My previous comments were all about the Ukraine crisis.

            Have a good Friday/Weekend All !!!

      • Due to all the butt polishing that Trump did to Putin, is anybody surprised that Putin was embolden to believe that he could get away with the invasion of Ukraine.

        • Absolutely so, to the right wing Republicans all those commie bastards of yesteryear are now like brothers in arms extreme nationalists with a healthy contempt for we little people.

    • To be fair, they have eventually supplied a lot (after sending just a few bits if body armour and some rusty weapons). Why they insist on provaracating yet again… (well, we all know it’s their business interests)

      Their demand that US send Abrams is hardly a hard one to meet though. How much those fuel guzzlers will help Ukraine directly is very questionable, but if it is what is required to get Germany to allow Leopards to be sent, then so be it.

    • Apart from all their other issues regarding arming Ukraine, I suspect that there is also an element of “East German” influence/mindset still with the Berlin Government.

    • Depending on which source you look at, Taiwan still has 300-450 M60A3 tanks. They want to replace them with M1, but the US has only agreed a small number. What if the US did a swap? Surplus M1A1 for M60A3. Taiwan would have a better deterrent against Chinese invasion. The US would have simpler M60 tanks to donate to Ukraine.

  2. I wonder if this batch of Brimstone has been supplied in which to tackle any possible Russian thrust into the Ukraine in the near future.

    • It could well be. Supposedly the route from the north is quite limited in where attacks could come from. Kill zones have hopefully all been worked out.
      Best thing Ukraine could do is get Russia out of the south to cut down the size of the front. Russia being east is going to be a threat even if they are pushed right back to the border.
      Belarus leader would be nuts to invade as I don’t think the population will stand for it. Dictators normally are a bit nuts 🌰

      • Spot on that south is the key if it can thrust through to the sea off Asov only about 70 miles it would completely threaten Russias plans and alter the dynamic and Crimea would be seriously isolated and under potential fire as would the bridge. Have they the strength though those tanks are probably a vital ingredient to achieve it.

        • Trying to hold the lines with 20k soldiers in bakmut and then battalions scattered without putting pressure on Russian forces elsewhere is proving difficult.
          I hope Ukraine are getting a plan in place as they are losing small amounts of territory. Russia is losing a lot of forces to get those areas but Ukraine’s casualties are not a small number either.
          It’s a meat grinder and human is top of the menu.

          • I visited Ukraine twice this year.. I know it’s not great to publish exactly what’s what but Ukraine’s losses are a hell of a lot. Local news is still upbeat though, especially about USA, Poland, UK. They are just trying to pull in as much kit as possible before march/beginning of spring.

            All people i spoke to said they need tanks, civilians and others

  3. Just bought Febs issue of Airforce monthly. They have an article on how the Spanish Airforce has selected Brimstone for their Eurofighter, with an op date for the end of the year.

    • That’s good news. More operators of brimstone could help keep manufacturing running and newer, better, cheaper versions coming.
      I do like the newer Small diameter bomb version, the 4 bomb racks on a hard point. I guess we will see how it does in Ukraine. Hopefully really well.

      • Hi Monkey Spanker, Here’s an interesting thought, If Germany holds nuclear weapons how can they be trusted to deploy them if required to do so when they cannot even agree to send a shipment of tanks to Ukraine?

        Good news on the Brimstone front, if only Ukraine could get close enough to use them on Russian Ships.

        • MARITIME BRIMSTONE

          Maritime Brimstone has been designed to be modular and can be integrated to a wide variety of vessel types/classes.

          The same missile can be used from fixed wing and naval platforms, minimising logistic support infrastructure

          Maritime Brimstone is a modular, flexible system adaptable to a wide variety of existing ship system configurations

          The system is user friendly with mode selections via a touchscreen control panel

          The system is fire and forget and in salvo operation can rapidly cope with both swarms of targets and individual target(s) situations

        • Honestly I don’t know the complete process for the special weapons. I know the USA holds them and will release them onto the aircraft.
          The tornado retirement would of given Germany the perfect excuse to get
          out of the nuclear sharing deal if they wished. They seem to want to stay in it.
          Final thought is I don’t actually think in a hot war that the few weapons Germany has access to would be necessary or change the outcome used or unused. They are a hangover of the Cold War where the role would of been to drop them on massing troops moving west. If after first strikes anything was left, that is when the bombs may be used now or in the future.
          Most of us are dead or dying slowly if a hot war did kick off properly anyway. Hopefully I’m near a target for instant vaporisation.

          • Oh no not sleeping. I want to make a great shape next to a wall to leave a shadow imprint. Perhaps jazz hands, bruce Forsyth generation game pose 😂😂😂😂😂

        • Germany’s nukes are actually US nukes on loan. The US holds and stores them on German soil, they can also veto their use. Germany has to ask the US for the nukes.

          • Perhaps it’s time to transfer them to other NATO members if they fail to agree on the supply of Leopards to Ukraine.

            13 Oct 2022

            “The US also has an estimated 100 nuclear warheads stored across Europe on air bases in Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Turkey, according to the Centre for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation.

  4. Great news on giving the vehicles to operate challenger 2.
    The spares for Ukraine’s vehicles will be useful.
    It’s a quite a bundle of stuff there. Same again next month probably needed.
    I was thinking if the old grid square removal tactic for the MLRS would be useful where the Russians are concentrating. They know where they massing around towns. Just know the Ukrainians are losing a few towns to large concentrations of Russian troops.
    Lots of allies seem to be giving equipment as well so hopefully it’s can help. Sweden with archer, USA with SDB on the MLRS rocket.

    • Unfortunately we signed up to the banning of cluster munitions, which effectively got rid of the grid square removal rockets. Instead we now have the long range sniper rocket.

      One option being looked at by the UK, is Spear-3 loaded in to a MRLS magazine.

      • 🤣😂😁, you have just passed the entrance exam to train as a US gov’t spokesperson! Online classes should be starting spring semester soon. 😁

      • I would still put out the begging bowl for ex USMC M777, as an interim replacement for the AS90 the UK has sent to Ukraine. The UK ought to buy cheaply a few hundred ground launched small diameter bombs to give our M270 MLRS a 93 mile precision strike capability.

    • Very complex answer. Do u replace an out of service CVRT with another out of service one.
      For missile stocks some are.
      The uk forces have plenty left for the roles they plan for.

  6. Only problem with supplying Brimstones is that they destroy tanks. Which initially actually sounds good until you realise the Russian Army is currently the largest donor of tanks to the Ukranian Army 😏

    • UKR will simply have to become more discriminating in its choice of which Russian inventory to accept! 😉

      By the end of this minor dust-up, UKR may have the largest, most seasoned and well equipped army w/in Eurasian theatre. 😳

      • I suspect that the Ukrainians would accept any Russian gear, if only because they are likely familiar with it and have spares.

        I love your use of understatement, this is the largest war in Europe since WW2 and it has a while left to run. The biggest problem the UA has is probably the insistence of its political masters that it should hold the line, the concept of tactical retreat seeming to be unacceptable. With Russian artillery pounding away at UA positions creating the need for almost constant movement of replacement troops. The infamous ‘meat-grinder’. Whether there will be much of a “seasoned and well equipped army” left after this is probably moot.

        • Explained that so clearly you don’t listen, however the Ukrainians have in the past shown a penchant for tactical withdrawal so clearly have no strategic dislike of it, indeed it was the Russians who for months refused to do so and thus lost large numbers of its troops and equipment certainly until they changed that particular tactic. As for how many tanks passed over to Ukraine by Russian forces nobody knows exactly neither me nor you especially from the sources you frequent. The seasoned army seems to be holding up pretty well so far however if the mighty Russian Army is truly as adept as you claim in gaining a few miles but then that’s mercenaries for the most part not the Russian Army at all which perhaps says something about seasoned troops on that side of the fence.

        • You really are clueless aren’t you?!?! 😆

          You claim that Ukraine finds “tactical retreat as unacceptable” in the very week that they performed a tactical withdrawal from Soledar.

          Russian artillery aren’t “pounding away at UA positions”. The Russian artillery is so poor they have to conduct area bombardment to try and hit anything meaningful. Which is why they’ve been firing over ten times the shells that Ukraine has. It’s no surprise the Russians are running out of munitions and been forced to drastically cut shell expenditure recently.

          Yes it’s sad to see so many young men being out through the meat grinder. But then they shouldn’t have joined the Russian Army. With casualties an order of magnitude higher than that of the Ukrainian Army, it’s clear which side will run out of soldiers first. The war isn’t a year old yet Putin has lost more soldiers than the USSR did in its ten year war in Afghanistan.

        • All war is a neat grinder. You engage the enemy to try to kill them. That’s war. It’s messy, tragic and horrifying. Still you wouldn’t know about that sitting in the basement of the Kremlin

    • Apart from the first 2/3 months I have seen little evidence of the Ukrainians capturing more than a few handfuls of Russian tanks. Since then it has been the hundreds of T-72 from eastern Europe that have been the source of most extra tanks to the UA.

      Have I missed something re your ‘current donor’ comment?

      • ” …..I have seen little evidence of the Ukrainians capturing more than a few handfuls of Russian tanks. ”

        Yeah, you’ve missed a lot. Firstly you’re not on the front in Ukraine, so you are in no position to judge , given your previous spinelessness, I would expect you to be the pants – shitter in chief if you went within an asses roar of a war zone. Secondly, all of your, ahem, “information ” is provided by the Kremlin or its various sock puppets, and they are liars, pure and simple. Thirdly, you are a propagandist for the Russian, nothing you have posted has survived basic scrutiny or is even a first cousin of the truth.

        The Russian retreats from Kharkiv, Kyiv, and other areas gifted Ukraine hundreds of armoured vehicles, artillery, ammunition and tanks, this has been well documented by independent experts and seasoned military observers.

        Something that you could never be described as.

        • I agree with your third para, which is exactly what I said. So where is the evidence of what Sean wrote “Russian Army is currently the largest donor of tanks to the Ukranian Army”? My highlight.

          • Leaving aside your sophistry and hair splitting about what defines current, it is probably impossible to penetrate that locked bunker you reside in , even your lauded Russian milbloggers have acknowledged the capture by Ukraine of Russian armour.
            Incidentally, your gleeful reporting of Ukrainian officials claiming the Dnipro apartment missile strike was somehow caused by Ukrainian AD turns out to be wide of the mark. The official resigned, admitted he was wrong and apologised to the relatives of the murdered residents. Perhaps you should consider doing the same, or at least apologise here for posting incorrect Russian propaganda.

      • You miss pretty much everything, starting from honesty, moving through to a lack of impartiality, closely followed by an absolute lack of morals, tactical knowledge and a gap in your reality, ending in a whole load of vomit inducing Nazi supporting posts, which confirm your disgusting lack of condemnation for this illegal war and therefore showing your tacit approval of the Russian Nazi tactics of rape, torture and murder! Glad you agree!

        • Damn, thats an total dissection of his character as a human being…!
          But totally accurate and deserved.

          Well done Airborne 👏🏻

      • As in any war sorry special operation there are spoils of war equipment. I watched a video dated the 12 January of a Russian T72 and 2 BMPs been dragged out the bushes from the north Kharkiv region.
        Oryx is a great resource for keeping proven records of things destroyed, captured etc.
        The recent order that the Russians in Ukraine are to be clean shaven is either so there gas masks fit properly or some general doesn’t like beards.
        Really hope it’s the latter. Knowing Russian equipment the gas masks and NBC kit probably doesn’t work properly anyway. Been in a damp bunker for 40 years.
        I guess we will find out just how horrible the russian leadership can be

      • You’ve seen little evidence because you obviously only watch RT and other Putin propaganda channels.

        Ukraine has received dozens of tanks from other former Eastern Bloc nations, but they don’t match the numbers abandoned by Russian crews or captured. Ukraine has more tanks now than it had when the war began, and more than the number committed by Russia to the invasion.
        It’s one of the reasons why the Russians have reverted from tank warfare to an artillery war. That and they don’t know how to conduct tank ware far as part of combined arms, which leaves they prey to infantry with javelins and NLAW.

        (I imagine Russian tankers have been singing a variation of the The Clash’s hit song, “I fought the NLAW”)

      • JIMK wrote:

        “Apart from the first 2/3 months I have seen little evidence of the Ukrainians capturing more than a few handfuls of Russian tanks.”

        2 to 3 months would refer to March and April when Moscow was forced to retreat from all the land between Kyiv and Sumy and up to the Russian border which means they left behind a load of equipment .

        In September Moscow was pushed out of virtually the entire Kharkiv Oblast.

        In November Moscow was pushed out of the eastern half of the Kherson Oblast.

        in both cases it is well documented on the vehicles the Russians left behind, (Including main battle tanks) not only that, but they left behind huge stores of ammunition, spare parts (Also well documented)

        • I agree with you up to Kharkiv but I’m pretty sure the UA didn’t capture much then.. As to Kherson there is no evidence that the Russians left more than a handful of armour behind. They say that they evacuated around 45,000 civilians, 25,000 troops and 5,000 pieces of equipment. Ammo etc I’ll agree with you.

          Love to see the documentation showing otherwise, should be lots of photos as the UA loves publishing stuff on dead Russian gear.

          Regardless of that you are avoiding the point. I again state that there is NO evidence that the Russians are CURRENTLY the largest supplier of tanks to the UA as claimed above.

          Can posters please address this point rather than attack me with fatuous comments or skirt around the subject?

      • Your masters filter what you see knowing you haven’t got the intellect to question them.

        Those of us allowed access to the real world see countless clips of captured vehicles being driven/ towed away.

        You keep on following the script though like a good little orc.

      • What world are you in? The recent Ukranian advances scattered an entire Russian army group and captured the equivalent to approx 2 brigade sized groups of abandoned heavy equipment.
        So yes Russia IS the biggest donator of heavy equipment.

  7. Some pictures on Twitter show Russian far Eastern factories refurbing large quantities of T62 tanks so Putin is clearly going for the good old soviet tactic of huge numbers vs no fecks given to casualties.
    Unless the west has secretly ramped up production then advanced ATGM stocks could run out, along with 155mm so this war is going to drag on.
    These 600 should help, it would be preferable if they manage to intergrate them on something like SU-25 to exploit the range.
    Hopefully enough newly pledged kit gets there in time.
    On another point. Why would anyone now buy German or Swiss weapons, needing permission.
    Hopefully Boxer and the spares package means 100% uk control for re export, if not we should think seriously about going all in on it.
    It may be a good reason not to go for 155mm on Boxer.
    With Team Thunder visiting Korea in the last days and with Korea having lots of K9, a loan of 36 pending UK production of new ones could mean we could hand over all the AS90 and spares.

    • The US is spending hundreds of millions modernising ammunition plants and has vastly increased munition aquisition. Has anyone else? The war will soon be a year old. What is everyone waiting for?

      • Both the UK and the Czechs are ramping up production. If the Czechs numbers are true, then they have the largest 155mm production capacity in Europe at present. Perun on YouTube did a fantastic video a few weeks ago on the efforts in Western and Western-aligned countries to ramp up production and their stockpiles of critical ammunition.

        • That’s good news! Haven’t heard that, but I do think that we should be looking hard at our capabilities to produce ammunition in quantity- glad the MOD are thinking on the same lines. 

      • There have been a lot of upscaling of ammunition plants across nato. Europe as a whole can out produce the USA in artillery.
        What we find is the USA puts out a press release/notice to Congress/etc of everything they are doing. Other countries don’t so it can appear nothing is happening.
        The latest round of talks for donations to Ukraine is quite substantial.

    • How quickly could a K9 factory be be in production over here? I wouldnt want to hand over all our AS90 until it was producing in-spec K9

      • 17.01.2023

        UK Team Thunder moves forward with plans for British variant of K9 Self-Propelled Gun

        “Business leaders and engineers from five defence companies in the U.K. visited the manufacturing facility of the world’s most proven K9 Self-Propelled Howitzer (SPH) in South Korea to progress plans to compete for the U.K. Mobile Fires Platform (MFP) programme.

        The companies include Lockheed Martin U.K.; Leonardo U.K.; Pearson Engineering; Horstman Defence; and Soucy Defense. Hanwha is leading the team to bid for the MFP programme aimed at procuring up to 116 self-propelled guns for the British Army.

        There are over 1,700 units already in service with seven NATO and allied nations, including Turkey, Poland, Norway and Estonia. More recently, Australia and Egypt have joined the K9 User Club, bringing the number of K9 customer countries to nine, while Poland signed a framework agreement in July 2022 to procure over 600 more K9s.

        “K9A2 Thunder is being proposed by Hanwha Defense as a replacement for ageing AS90 as part of the British Army’s Mobile Fires Platform (MFP) program. K9A2 will be on display at the upcoming DVD 2022 defense exhibition that will be held at UTAC Millbrook in Bedfordshire between 21-22 September 2022.”

        Video

        • In view of the gravity of the situation in Ukr I would prefer to buy as many of these off-the-shelf as we could. I would leave the building of the factory and the necessary tooling to the private sector companies in the consortium

          That was an interesting clip, 50% of the manufacture – and the build in the UK – looks good. We must keep the MoD out of it at all costs.

          • After hearing about Germany’s reluctance to give permission to Poland and other countries who wish to supply Ukraine with Leopard tanks, I’m beginning to wonder what our contractual agreement is with Boxer?

            Maybe the Hanwa Redback would have been a better choice for us.

            “This new IFV has a 2-man turret. It is armed with a 30 mm Mk44S Bushmaster II automatic cannon. It fires 30×173 mm ammunition, which is used by 19 nations, including the United States, United Kingdom and other members of NATO. Various types of ammunition were developed for this gun.

            The Redback can also use advanced munitions, such as programmable airburst munitions or proximity fused rounds. The cannon is fitted with a fuse setter for these advanced rounds.

            Interestingly the 30 mm cannon of the Redback can be easily upgraded to a 40 mm cannon – only three parts need to be replaced and no modifications to the turret are required.

            There is a coaxial 7.62 mm machine gun, as well as remotely-controlled weapon station. It can be armed with a 12.7 mm heavy machine gun, 7.62 mm general purpose machine gun or 40 mm automatic grenade launcher. There is a launcher with two Spike LR2 anti-tank guided missiles.

            It has a range of 5.5 km. It was estimated that these missiles penetrate more than 900 mm of steel armour behind explosive armour. That’s sufficient to defeat most of the main battle tanks. When not in use the launcher with missiles is retracted into the turret.

            This armoured vehicle is operated by a crew of 3 and can carry 8 dismounts. Troops enter and leave the vehicle via the rear power-operated ramp with integral doors.”

          • We may have backed the wrong horse!

            Korea, Poland to make K2PL tanks based on 120mm K2 Black Panther
            Rumours of a K2PL tank
            At present, there is no specific information on what the tank will look like and what different features and elements will be integrated into it to meet Polish needs.

          • Also interesting,

            October 19, 2022,

            “SEOUL — Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace (KDA), a Norwegian supplier of defence and space-related systems and products, has established a strategic partnership with Hyundai Rotem, the producer of South Korea’s main battle tank, K2 Black Panther, to develop unmanned turrets and drone protection systems to be installed in next-generation tanks and wheel-type armoured vehicles.”

          • Good spot!

            I wonder if this will be a sticking point as the Leopard has become? hopefully not.

            “The main armament of the K2PL consists of a German-made Rheinmetall 120-mm/ L55 smoothbore gun produced under license in South Korea. The gun is fitted with an automatic loader with 16 rounds ready to fire and 24 rounds are stored inside the hull.”

          • Hanwa Redneck has been selected by Australia hasn’t it?
            Agree it looks good as a potential warrior replacement although closer to home the latest variants of CV90 seem to be highly capable platforms too

          • Choices, Choices! My only thoughts were if we were intending to go the Hanwa route, why not build a solid UK infrastructure and create as many jobs as possible?

            Poland seems to be going down this route with some decent workshare.

            One for the experts on here.

          • Hi again Nigel, I read that it’s only got a 520km range and 65 kmh top speed. Does it need a bit more legs and zip?

          • Lol…. Don’t we all! Better “wheels” too! Nothing against “tracked” thoughight be better if you get really heavy. 😁 😂 🇦🇺 🇬🇧

          • I guess it depends on the contract, but export blocks have been a perennial issue with partnerships with Germany (Typhoon being an excellent example). We’ve previously had provisions in there that have allowed us to export because we’re manufacturing them in the UK, as partners in the programme rather than customers (key difference with Poland, here). I would expect/hope that, having rejoined the Boxer team as partners, that we have a similar carve out.

          • As far as the Redback goes, I’d only really consider it if it wins the Australian competition- that would be a decent stamp of approval in my opinion. I wouldn’t be against using it as a replacement for Warrior, but I’d like to know why we can’t make an IFV out of Ajax when we’ve spent so much time, effort, and money getting it to work (which apparently it does now?). I’d also want to put the CTAS40 in the turret rather than the 30 mm Bushmaster, but I’ve no doubt the South Koreans would be very accommodating about that. Also, Javelin or Brimstone instead of Spike in the launchers.

          • I found these two articles.

            LINK

            “Hanwha Defense Australia (HDA) and Elbit Systems of Israel have agreed to support the Redback turret, built in Australia, for the global market.”

            LINK

          • It’s not the MOD it’s the army top brass. They will want a flying variant of the K9 with a electric fuel cell propulsion. The ability to time travel. The ability to fire quantum torpedo’s from its barrel and to be able to communicate targeting data via thought sensitive helmet sensors. End result £5 billion spent and didly squat to show for it
            Agree by off the shelf proven designs and get in with the job in hand.

          • Mr Bell, I think we now will need those “quantum torpedos” to stop those new 🇷🇺 nuclear Poseidon torpedos just coming into service there! Jeez, NATO seriously need to keep an eagle eye on all Russian subs! 1-2 more Astutes please!! If Putin ever uses one of those it’ll be “good night Irene” for him and all his sods. Need the NSM kind of sooner and the FC/ASW to hurry up too! Too much faffing around with that! Maybe time for MK41s and TLAM on T45/26/31s. Japan recently ordered 600! Different threat area but at least they’re responding to it. Plus some purchase of ASMs for the P-8s. Hope the Ukrainian conflict doesn’t spread and that the west’s supply lines are secure.
            TGIF. 🇦🇺 🇬🇧

        • I’d be happy with getting the K9, seems like a good platform. But is there any problem with the underlying AS90 chassis? They may be knackered, but I’m not aware of them having been worked hard. If we could just replace the turret and get a 52 calibre gun with updated fire control systems, maybe uprate the engine if needed (get the uprated powerpack for both AS90 and CR3 at the same time), then I’d be happy with that- especially given tight finances.
          That’s assuming we keep any tracked SPG at all- wheels are popular these days (I know the argument between tracks and wheels, but finances raises its ugly head again!). If we’re going Archer or CEASAR then obviously it become a moot point, although an upgrade of AS90 would potentially come in cheap enough that we could keep some alongside wheels.

    • Trust me, Ukrainians, Poles and Eastern Europeans in general have been taking copious notes throughout. They are acutely aware of the parties who stepped into the breach during their hour of need. The intriguing question is whether UK Defence Technologies, PLC (writ large) has the capability to rearm MoD and a significant portion of NATO simultaneously? 🤔😳

      • Show me the money and everything is possible.
        Artillery shells and small arms will be ok.
        As with all things some items will be harder to get but that is when something else will fill the gap.
        Russia was NATO’s main enemy and if they are exhausted then it’s job done.
        Learning from Ukraine conflict will probably be making items easier to produce at scale and cost is needed. For difficult items enough need to be stored.

      • We should be able too. Just need to ramp up production
        NLAW, 155MM Shells, Brimstone, small arms ammo all within our gift to manufacture and supply

    • I wouldn’t worry about supply of ATGW. Russia won’t be able to field enough tanks to overcome the tens of thousands of ATGW NATO can supply. It’s far easier to supply and deploy an NLAW/ Javelin, Carl Gustav, Milan ER then a fully refurbished ancient piece of junk like the T64.

        • I’d rather be in a T64 than a T62 personally.
          Give it a few months and Ukraine will be having many more western tanks grouping with T72/T64s. Or they may keep them separate but what ever they do T62 will be blowing turrets all over the place.

  9. This just shows the need for us to invest in our own defence and stocks and it shows the complete stupidity and ineptitude of politicians running down our defence particularly our army over so many decades.

  10. Can anybody tell me if Brimstone has actually been making a difference in ukraine and what the impact has been because I haven’t heard anything about how effective it has been since last year. Who has the inside scoop?

    • Those of us outside the classified arena do not know. Since last summer there has been very, very few videos of ATGM attacks using any weapon, let alone Brimstone. This is no doubt due to tightened OPSEC by the UA. What anti tank video there is seems to be mainly Russian and of drones and helicopter launch no their ATGM. Given the UA must have asked for them it is likely that they have been effective.

      • Er no! Damn propaganda, disinformation and bile drip from your every pore. Most footage has been the heli tactics of lobbing unguided rockets as an area weapon, from both sides. Anyone can dig up some shite footage os an Orc heli (if it survives over the battlefield long enough) firing an ATGW, means and proves nothing as you always like to tell us my little troll farm employee.

      • JIMK wrote:

        “”Those of us outside the classified arena do not know. Since last summer there has been very, very few videos of ATGM attacks using any weapon, let alone Brimstone. “”

        JIMK,
        To understand why, is to look at the type pf weapon Brimstone is:
        Infantry Squad based Anti-tank weapons:
        Javelin
        NLAW
        RPGs
        Panzerfaust (and the rest)
        Are all short range weapons which have a maximum effective range of a few klicks  , as they are squad based, there will be somebody around with some form of recording device filming the use of such weapons.
        Brimstone was designed during the 80s to combat the mass armoured fists which the Russians would send into western European . It was designed from the onset to be long ranged and fire and forgot. So it is fitted with a millimetre wave active radar homing seeker a warhead which will kill anything it hits and the legs to reach out to 12 miles (Brimstone 2 can reach 37 miles) As mentioned it is a fire and forget weapon meaning you would launch them (Typhoon can carry 18) in the direction of where the enemy is and they would seek and destroy anything in front of them (They are fitted with the ability to recognise different vehicles) with such a long range weapon (Granted the Ukrainians using them from ground based launches would see a reduction in range) and the ability to seek out their own targets, (Meaning cameras wont be on hand to see the strike , unless fired from the rear as a form of NLOS missile) to support troops on the FEBA.
        But as I mentioned at the start of this thread, Moscow has been selling the idea they are going to launch an offensive once the weather becomes warmer using the so called hundreds of new and refurbished tanks it has knocked out. An offensive which would entail numerous armoured fist containing hundreds of tanks and armoured vehicles. Its exactly the task that Brimstone was designed to combat. So I suspect that they are been held in reserve for such a situation, which with its 90% effective kill rate would blunt any Russian advance in minutes.

        • As I said, it is likely that Brimstone has been effective. Earlier in the war the UA was filming in really good quality from drones, which could cover the beyond visual reach from the launching squad.

        • Russia goes from the north Ukraine goes south. Guess by the summer we will see what has worked.
          Belarus leader will need a safe house from his population if he joins in with forces.

    • think the answer is if you have firm eyes on target you use lower cost artillery, drones or possibly move to MLRS m270/ HIMARS ETC. If you don’t have eyes on target but a reasonable idea of where the armour is you use Brimstone. Hence limited video / Evidence of use.

      Performance and use will come out once dust settles. Sure they wouldn’t be sending if it wasn’t working.

    • The nature of Brimstone means that you aren’t likely to be able to capture footage of its use. Drones don’t last long if they loiter around.

      Plus, the nature of the war has changed. There are fewer traps and ambushes being set as the lines have set in in many places. These Brimstone will be very useful for any offensive though, and we all know Ukraine need to launch one this spring. And if Russia launch one too, then there will be opportunities to use them then.

      And as others have said, the UA seem to have tightened opsec over the last six months. It was already tighter than at the start of the war, but that was an incredibly low bar.

  11. Why tell everybody including the 🇷🇺 how many we’re sending?!!! Keep it quiet for goodness sake! And replace UK stocks asap with the ER Brimstone 3…if you’re not doing that already!…lol. 😆

      • Good evening Mr Bell, I have absolutely no idea. Lots of time, money and resources needed for sure! At least newer, faster, better will replace the older.

  12. As the modern anti-tank weapons supplied by the West have been so effective in knocking out Russian tanks do the Ukraines really need tanks to knock out tanks? Maybe it’s part of a bigger picture of supplying heavier weapons to scare off the Russians.

    • Brimstone, javelin, Milan ER, NLAW can help punch a hole through Russian defensive formations. Especially tanks and IFVs in hull down positions. But you need tanks, support by IFVs, mobile artillery etc to advance and take back Ukranian territory. Seems the big spring slugfest will probably decide the war. Both sides will commit everything to do so. If Ukraine can hold off the impending massed Russian attack and then counter they have a reasonable chance of winning the war.

      • I would think that with all the spy planes etc monitoring the situation a ‘surprise’ attack is not going to happen! Any build up of Orc armour is going to be hammered by HIMARs etc before it crosses the border.

        • Either way an attack will not catch the Ukr by surprise,if Belarus either joins in or allow the Orcs to stage from their country then I will be fairly sure any Orc concentrations will get hammered. I think the time for niceties toward Belarus has long passed. But then there is no guarantee that the Belarusian people will actually take part in Pootins war!

          • Yep agreed but if there are indications of the Orcs moving toward Ukraine all bets are off on hitting them!

      • If the Russians had any sense and mounted a spring offensive from Belarus. They should ignore Kyiv and drive for Lviv. This is because the majority of Western supplied aid comes through Poland straight to Lviv. Cut off Western aid, Ukraine will seriously struggle. Having to reroute supplies through the mountainous border region with Rumania.

        Hope I’m wrong!

        • Hi Wolf. Don’t get me wrong, I do not want to see Russia succeed in its invasion. So far the Russian Army has failed both tactically and strategically. It is over reliant on mercenary groups, who seem to be driving the initiative.

          However, Ukraine’s weakness is its supply of Western weapons and ammunition. Cut these off and they will struggle. Russia must surely recognize this. Yet they only send the odd missile or suicide drone against Lviv. Which is one of the main logistical hubs for weapons entering the country.

          The border between Belarus and Ukraine is full of forests, lakes and swamps. Especially west of Chernobyl. These limit probable invasion routes from the North. There are substantial highways between the two countries which would be ideal choke points for a defending force.

          Yet Russia’s only real advantage is manpower. They have a substantially larger population, where men of fighting age can be easily volunteered into the Army. They are doing another large recruitment drive now. Which will double the size of their Army used for invading Ukraine.

          Granted these won’t have in-depth training, only the basics. Which means they will loose a lot in a fight. Yet Russia can afford to loose numbers, whilst Ukraine cannot. Therefore the loses suffered by Ukraine become more important. Its smaller population cannot match Russia in this respect.

          Thankfully, Russia’s brass seem to be inept. They keep throwing away men trying to take Bakmut. Rather than looking at the bigger picture, of attacking Ukraine’s weak points and thereby overstretching their forces.

          There methods of attack harken back to the Soviet era ie the sledgehammer, they have not progressed in maneuver warfare. Which Ukraine has adopted and used to great effect. However, Ukraine’s forces cannot be everywhere, especially in depth. Whilst Russia to an extent can be, if they’re clever.

          Logistics is the key. If Russia recognize this and start doing something about it in a coordinated way, Ukraine will struggle. Which is why Ukraine must take the initiative. To force Russia to react and be defensive. How it does that remains to be seen, but I have a few ideas how they will. I think we will see come Spring more use of Combined arms groups. HIMARS/M270 will be one of the key factors and getting it closer to Crimea, will force Russia to react.

          • It looks like the Russians did a probing attack from the south over the past 48 hours on the front towards Zaporizhzhia resulting in gains along the whole front. Seemingly due to the UA having moved as much of its forces into Donbas as it could. The next couple of days will show whether this is a ‘real’ strike north by the Russians of just probes and the UA’s ability to resist.

            Little sign of Russian ineptitude. Having captured Soledar the Wagner forces are continuing to press NW, whilst south of Bahkmut Wagner is advancing west. The supply roads into the city seem to be the prime targets. Russia’s strategy seems to be to slowly attack, encouraging the UA to have to continually move troops forward to be destroyed by artillery.

            In Donbas ‘maneuver’ warfare is not really practical as there is so much highly industrialised built up area, a bit like our Black Country. The southern and northern fronts are much more suitable.

            Russia has other advantages on top of manpower, their stocks of weapons, munitions and industrial capability to make more and deliver it quickly by rail to the fronts.

            I think it unlikely, given the geography you describe plus the defensive measures that the UA have taken, that the Russians will attack from Belarus at this time. The large amount of Russian forces there are probably to encourage the UA to move troops there just in case.

    • Tanks don’t just knock out tanks. They deliver shock action. They work with amroured infantry to enabble a combined arms force to advance and seize and hold ground.

    • That’s only one of the tanks envisioned roles. The other which may be more pertinent, is infantry support for any offensives. ATGMs are not really useful for offensives as the majority of them are too static, such as the ones requiring a tripod for support. They are useful if mounted to a decent armoured fighting vehicle. As it gives extended reach and a larger punch for the dismounts in the back.

      The tank is better in this role, as it carries more ready rounds, has decent mobility and with its armour has more durability.

    1. Who is paying for all this support…Are we rebuilding the UK Stock thought that the Challenger armour was secret what if the tank is captured and the russians reverse engineer the armour ?We are very short of Tanks for are own use and  artillery

  14. The “Ukraine” situation should be a massive wake up call for all countries to look more closely at the contract T’s and C’s when they buy from overseas. Many NATO militarise would love to had over equipment to Ukraine but are stymied by the fact they need export licences from the country who originally made them. In most cases this is Germany. If ever there was a reason to NOT buy Leopard MBTs etc in the future, the current situation is clearly it.

  15. It would be nice to know what steps are being taken “NOW” to replenish the equipment being sent or are our armed forces being “robbed” to help Ukrain

    • Peter wrote:
      In answer to the question posed, Parliment knocked out a document on the 12th Dec :
      Military assistance to Ukraine since the Russian invasion
      and I quote:

      “”The MOD has said that the replacement of military equipment donated to Ukraine will be funded from the Treasury reserve and will not come out of the MOD’s procurement budget.”

  17. Perun on YouTube has done an excellent piece on captured Ruskie equipment. In the Donbass offensive Ukraine captured 54.5% of all Russian armour in the field. Equal to 2 armoured brigades.

    • Perun is turning into a legend. He saw some news at the start of the conflict that he didn’t think was right so made a video about it explaining why it’s wrong. So glad he did.

  18. Good to hear, not just that we’re maintaining support, but that 600 more Brimstone suggests that the previous ones sent did a good job. I’ve seen very little information anywhere as to how well they’ve done in Ukraine- anyone else?
    Also, anyone know what minefield breaching gear we have? I’ve heard of those launchers of strings of explosives that create a path through, but wasn’t aware we had any. I presume we haven’t dusted off a load of Sherman crab kits from Bovington…
    I’m guessing medium range air defence missiles are Aster for the SAMP/T that France and Italy are providing, or old AMRAAM for the NASAMS?

    • The launcher of strings of explosives is Python. Its a rocket lauched tube of HE which has a digging in tool at the end with a winch fitted. Once it has dug in it pulls itself taut and once it is as straight as possible it is detonated.

      As a young Sapper, we were taught on the bangalore torpedo for short range clearence, on that note we also spent a lot of time on our front prodding the ground in front of us, if a mine was found we would place a small grey canvas coloured wire cone and move on (if a night time breach) if silence wasnt an issue we would place a small PE charge next to it and detonate it from a distance (In case there was an anti handling device underneath)

      There was talk of using fuel air mixtures in which to detonate a vast area. Not sure if we purchased it, but I know theIsraelis use it (as do the french) , its called CARPET

      • Nice, glad we have something comparable to what I read about the American system.
        Always important to learn the most bassic and unpleasant way of doing a job first, I suppose! I’d agree with wanting to deactivate a mine from a distance if I had the choice- I’ve seen videos from Ukraine of them finding primed grenades underneath them and suchlike.

  19. Look Ukraine is a proxy war and the west cannot be seen to lose. The west’s technology and manufacturing sectors should be working flat out.

  20. As an aside after watching and listening to the US Defence chiefs and the following journalists questions today at Ramstein airbase, what stood out like a sore thumb that several nations within the EU were singled out as the main contributors to Ukraine with military equipment.
    However probably other than the US, the largest contribution, including tanks and the Brimstones mentioned above, the UK did not even get a mention.
    I believe that Bidens Irish heritage is causing a rather bad smell in the North Atlantic Alliance.

    • I too noticed the lack of acknowledgement of the UK’s massive contribution and was very shocked.
      Was Biden in the room?

      • I assume that was rhetorical but NO. Biden is more concerned of never having to answer direct and awkward questions, being more concerned with just maintaining his compus mentus.

  21. News from Ramstein airbase….oh actually no significant news all previously disclosed commitments stay the same but nothing from Germany about allowing export re licensing for transfer of Leopard 2s from Poland and Finland to Ukraine.
    US General is right. Time is ticking and getting ever closer to spring when Ukraine states they need 300 Western MBTs to resist the coming Ruskie massed wave attack of conscripts and hundreds of rust bucket T64/72s.
    If Ukranian troops are going to be trained and skilled in tank use they need training now not when thousands of Russian tanks are pressing forward in a spring offensive.
    Lets hope without tanks adequate numbers of ATGWs will slow the Ruskies down and cause such attritional loses that the assault is stalled and blunted.
    Could the UK/ should the UK give more C2s. I think yes. Should we purchase as many C2s and C1s we can from Jordan or Oman. Yes we most certainly should.

    • I think it’s really only a matter of time before Ukraine gets the leopards . Maybe there are operational security reasons why no public decision has been announced, but I think we can be fairly certain that somewhere in NATO territory, Ukrainian tank crews are being trained in the use of leopard tanks.

    • Very disappointing meeting – and I hear reps from 50 nations turned up. The Germans have really screwed up – and there is ltlle time for the UA to get ready for Russia’s spring offensive – or even to pre-empt it.

      Poland is ready and willing to supply Leo 2s, but sadly there is no ‘piece of paper’ in Herr Scholz’s hand.
      Is there, once again as in history, a secret agreement between the German Chancellor and the Russian leader, to adversely affect Poland (and more importantly Ukraine)?

      I hear only about 43% of the German people want Leo2s to go to Ukraine.

  22. Let’s hope the UK Prime Minister and Chancellor fully support the resupply of arms and material to the UK armed forces together with further investment in UK armed forces.

  23. Wonderful wonderful news at only 175,00k per missile X 600 just another 105 million being spent by those shitehoose politicians on everybody else meanwhile it’s cut cut cut for our own armed forces all cheered on by the boys in here . 😁

    none the less more great news

    👍🏻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

  24. So Germany won’t send tanks or let others provide them…

    But has said it will help rebuild Ukraine once war is over, once it’s been flattened by russian aggression they’ll be their to help. Absolute reason right their why some country’s can’t be trusted

  25. So can someone remind me how these Brimstones are delivered…from the back of a truck?
    Now that the Germans are not going to send Leopard 2, the Ukrainians will be considering carefully what options they have for a spring offensive: T62, T72, Marders, Bradleys, AMX-10RC and Brimstone trucks? The Russians will be well dug in. Can we send more CR2…up to 50?

  26. One assumes we are sending over our old Mk1 Single/Upgrade Dual Mode units. Maybe some Mk2’s. I honestly didn’t think we had so many. If we are giving away 600, that means a fair stockpile somewhere.

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