With the news that 20,000 British troops, tanks, artillery, jets, attack helicopters, submarines, warships and even an aircraft carrier are to deploy around Europe, we take a look at what is going where.
Defence Secretary Grant Shapps has announced that in the first half of 2024, 20,000 service personnel from the Royal Navy, the British Army, and the Royal Air Force will deploy across Europe to take part in Exercise Steadfast Defender 24.Ā
The exercises will see the UKās Armed Forces join thousands of personnel from 31 NATO allies and Sweden, operating across multiple countries, coinciding with the NATO Allianceās 75thĀ year.
Here’s a breakdown of what is going where.
The Royal Navy:
- The Royal Navy will be deploying eight warships and submarines, and more than 2,000 sailors.
- A UK Carrier Strike Group, centred on a Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carrier and her air group of F-35B Lightning jets and helicopters, and surrounded by escort frigates and destroyers, will operate as part of a potent naval force of allied warships and submarines in the North Atlantic, the Norwegian Sea and the Baltic Sea.
- More than 400 Royal Marines Commandos will be deployed to the Arctic Circle at the heart of an allied amphibious task group designed to land in the high north and defend the alliance in one of the worldās harshest environments.
The British Army:
- 16,000 troops from the British Army will be deployed across eastern Europe from February to June 2024, taking with them tanks, artillery, helicopters, and parachutes.
- There will be live fire manoeuvres, parachute jumps, an Army and Navy jointĀ helicopter force, and Army Special Operations Forces on deployment.
- The British Army will deploy to test and strengthen the readiness of the UKās land forces in defending NATO, and to bolster its ability to operate jointly with allied armed forces.
The Royal Air Force:
- The Royal Air Force will be making use of some of its most cutting-edge aircraft, including F35B Lightning attack aircraft and Poseidon P8 surveillance aircraft.
- The RAF will practice flying in simulated conflict scenarios against near-peer adversaries, proving its ability to deter and defend against threats.
All very Impressive… Interesting to see that the RN will send a CSG with “Frigates and Destroyers” do we therefore assume at least two of each ?
Doesn’t necessarily mean our frigates and destroyers. Probably 1 x T45 and 1 x T23 with a Dutch and maybe Norwegian adjunct?
As this is a NATO sphere thing I would assume that from the off.
I did think that but then I re read the Article and it seemed to suggest that the RN was in fact deploying “Frigates and Destroyers” maybe George can help to clarify this ?
We are certainly getting our money’s worth out of the T45 proving again that the order of just six was a bad move.
Always be carful of headlines and jumping to conclusions..when I read the headline I thought there had been a report on how our deployment and support to Europe had broken downā¦not that this would be a āBreakdownā of of the deployment of British forces in Europe..the English language is a tricky little bugger.
ļ»æšļ»æ
Bound to be a mighty river and an archer somewhere amongst it
8 Ships and Submarines…. so a QE, two T23’s, two T45’s, two Tides and an Astute ? or will we see Bays or dare I mention a Fort or Bulwark in that number ?
It says Frigates and Destroyers I doubt they will all be ours not with tge trouble in the Gulf.
Well I’m reading it as RN ” Frigates and Destroyers” because that’s what it says….. Personally I can’t see it either being in the Plural but that is what the article says and in particular what the sub heading says.
Have we got a plural
Over four hundred Marines as part of an Amphibious Group. So not even a full Commando Unit. No second line support. So basically they can fight for a day. What ship are they embarking on. A Bay ?
A typical political announcement. Once you give it the most brief of scans you can see its full of holes.
Exactly mate….. A Bay is my assumption….
Another grey taxi
Yes, the article seems a tad light on all things Amphibious, no mention of how either they or their kit are getting to Norway? Perhaps we are renting a P&O ferry for the purpose!!!
Ryanair, again!
For me, should ideally be a Commando Group, so Four Five, plus bits of CLR, 30 Cdo, 29RA and 24RE. As you say, not even a Commando with just 400 personnel!
Yes take your pick from 40,42, or 45 then add your assets to bring it up to a Commando group. That would probably bring it to a strength of closer to 1000 +
The 400 sounds like two companies with some add ons. Probably a couple of Helos and the like.
Yes, I picked 45 as I thought they’re the primary arctic outfit.
Historically you would correct in your thoughts. 45 were the only MAW warfare unit. They deployed every year to Elvergardsmoen just north of Narivk from January the 1st to end of March early April each year. Then as the Brigade was fully committed to the Finland Gap scenario the other units become involved. So to give you an idea in around the mid seventies 3 Cmd Bde headquarters on deploying fielded two HQs. A and B. One was wheeled one tracked in BV202.
So still in transition.
In theory all units are now MAW trained. For my money none of them are. Penny pinching has reduced Artic deployments to a few hundred guys. The training has been cut beyond a level that is safe. I honestly think that the brigade could not carry out an Amphibious landing in the depths of an Artic winter. The experience is not there. It’s not the troops fault it’s the bean counters. The Marines have always lost men in training in Norway. The Artic teaches you hard lessons. So easy to be caught out. No two winters are the same. We assume things about our capability and our training. The Artic has a cruel way of telling you otherwise.
Thanks for that, ex R.
Respect.
SackT83, more 45’s please l
Ryanair! On standby
Not sure if you are aware of TACA they were the National Airline of El Salvador. Very professional in many aspects with a fairly new boeing fleet at the time. Nevertheless they had a Caribbean flair. Colloquially know as Take A Chance Airways buy us military types.
I think that is the UK MOD approach to everything. So may well be their airline of choice.
That would leave nothing actually active in UK
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a River batch 1 (maybe Mersey with her new paint work) join the group to make up the numbers?
And an archer
Meanwhile back at the ranch, not a lot of anything else
Just can’t understand it. The government clearly understand the utility and essential role the armed forces play and are more than happy to make full use of them, but are still (allegedly) planning to cutting them? Boggles the mind
The cuts have been going on for many Decades mate… despite claims of a “growing navy” these cuts are decreasing numbers almost monthly at the moment… Mine Sweepers, Frigates, Ocean Surveyors, Forts, Assault Ships, it’s all heading down hill. Yes we have a healthy ship building order book but there are so many cuts and uncertainties it’s all rather worrying.
Those scissors āļø must be very big/strong ones maybe Cameron knows where they are.
We don’t have a ‘government’ in the sense of a properly led organisation with a coherent strategy- we have a bunch of departments doing their own thing. The Treasury is right to suspect some of them of profligacy and needless empire-building. Unfortunately it seems to suspect all the wrong ones.
And victor meldrew starmer on the other side of the house.š
If the camel drivers actually were. To strike one of our ships, would anything change? Other than a bit of tub thumping in the commons and the usual we need a bigger navy talk, the fact is, NOTHING would change.NOTHING AT ALL.
But when you look at the equipment plan. A, huge amount of new tech and kit is coming.
Comingā¦and thatās the problem..we have potentially seriously missed the boat and royally messed up..china will be at the hight of its geostrategic strength in around 2027..itās told the itās population prepare for a struggle in 2027ā¦our capabilities are coming on line 2030-2040 and our lowest ebb as the key ally to the US will be 2027ā¦will china wait ? or will the RN face a global conflict with the escort fleet it will have in 2027ā¦itās completely unforgivable..we knew this was coming..china and Russia both made significant moves a decade agoā¦while our leaders were still playing letās pretend with the āend of history peace dividendāā¦itās a mess it really is.
There is a massive black hole (financial shortfall) in the Equipment Plan, so not all that kit will get bought.
Eventually
This is what you get when you make the navy expeditionary based on for the 70’s again l.
Sure we have the numbers to do that…..?
To deploy… possibly just a couple of weeks. Semantics from a sophistry schooled Government. Cons conning.
When all the proposed new kit arrives there’ll be nobody left to use it l
Is this a NATO exercise or just another exercise in provocation, like America does now and again in the Straits of Taiwan.
By provocation, do you mean sailing in international waters illegally claimed by a hostile power?
ļ»æšļ»æ
Provocation obviously. Can’t have NATO and/or the US sailing around exercising there right to go anywhere they want. It might upset the peace loving Chinese or Russians. Heaven forbid.ļ»æšļ»æ
Maybe the Russians will hold a similar one of their own off Portland.
Ha ha you do realise that every year china practiceās actually invading Taiwanā¦.we donāt bring together a huge invasion force and sit it on someoneās coastline while telling them we will be invading in the next 4 yearsā¦or build life sized replicas of other nationās government buildings and navel bases and blow them up with missiles..china doesā¦thatās provocative..what we are doing is called deterrence its showing if you do invade or cause a war..this is what you will fightā¦.to prevent a war you have to show what you have and that you can use it..worked for the 50 years of the Cold Warā¦when the USSR was desperate to invade and āliberateā Europe from the capitalist oppressors.
We won’t have Albion or bulwark for taxiing our people to the party
It’s all about deterrence and preparedness. You do want us to deter a major war?…and be trained and ready to fight one if deterrence fails?
A CSG , just where are the escorts coming from . 2 frigates retired early down to manpower issues , many more ships in dock for one reason or another . This is all for show , we have neither the assets nor the manpower to defend anything at the moment .
The Two that are being withdrawn are in a shocking state, just like the other two in Portsmouth….. I’m expecting at least one more in the next 6 months.
Which leaves us with what , 9 , seaworthy frigates . This is my point , the T26 & T31 are years away from joining the fleet and the T 45 never seem to at sea for one reason or another. As welcome as the new frigates are the RN should not have been allowed to get into this dangerously low state of numbers .
Mate, I/We wish….. 9 is the whole total, 5 is all we can hope for and that’s at a push….. It’s Disgraceful and I hope those in Power actually get to see the concerns that just so many of us have on this and other sites…..With a whole section of the World re-arming, It’s incredible that we are still cutting….. Something very wrong about that.
Are any European nations are increasing escort fleets?
Well yes…. what’s your point mate…. Poland are for one…. Germany and France are re-equipping too….. as are we but our own desperate situation is pretty dire don’t you think ? Are you happy with that ?
I’m just simply asking what other nations are doing. No, I’m not happy, but we have new ships in build with some fantastic capability coming. Is France increasing its escort fleet much larger than RN numbers?
Yes, sorry, I was a bit blunt there…. I agree with you on the fantastic capability coming along, I think Grant Shapps is getting a clear view of the state we are in, reading his comments it certainly appears he is concerned, trouble is, it all takes time and a heck of a lot of money to change things.
It’s taken a long time for too long, our ability to get kit into the field from building it, is a joke. How longhas it been sinc first metal being cut for Glasgow? This is where questions should be getting addressed to
Probably laughing at our pathetic inpu.Glkbal Britain? Global laughing stock more like.
I doubt that. Striking targets in Yeman. Deploying Typhoons and Voyager to Red Flag in Nevada. T23’s in the Gulf. Carrier strike is deploying to the Indian Ocean later this year. Continued deployments across Europe and Estonia. Continued support for Ukraine. QRA North/South and the Falklands. And that’s just a tiny snap shot of our globally deployed Force’s. That very few nations can do. The only people who think we are a laughing stock. Is the great uniformed. Many of who use this website. We have big problems to solve. Manning being problem no1. But we are still very capable. And a tiny number of countries can do what we can do. š¬š§
Only Italy rn, they’ll eventually have 12 Fremm frigates, 7 OPV/Frigates and 4 destroyers. But the Destroyers are the only ones with a decent VLS count.
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At least 2 more new destroyers funded, some 14000 t, and plans for 3 new large amphibious ships. They are really pushing it
The 2 destroyers are replacements for their 2 older destroyers same with the amphibs. But theyre certainly benefiting from consistent orders.
And they’ll get it done, and we’ll still be waiting for Glasgow.
Italy has more Idea of what it is doing than we do
How so
It doesn’t really matter what others are doing Robert but whichever way you look at it the UK in numerical terms is going downhill. I won’t bring up my usual numbers as you’ve read them often enough but we are desperately in need of a politician with some sense of the future and of commitment in order to take us forward. The problem with the parties we’ve got is where we’re going to find one.ļ»æšļ»æ
At least we know we will eventually be back up to 19 escorts with a big increase in capability compared to today. Plus the T45 weapons upgrade. We have to hope T32 will make it off the drawing board.
I just hope you’re right.ļ»æšļ»æ
It’s not so much the vision of an individual, it’s the mindset of everyone the U.m forces have been pushed into the background for too long. The world is the most volatile it’s been since the end of WW2 THAT THE NATION HAS TAKEN SO LONG TO REALISE AND RESPOND TO IT IS CRIMINAL negligence
How many European nations are island nations entirely dependant on sea based trade? How many have a carrier to protect on top of other commitments?
All European nations are dependent on sea trade. And most would dearly like to have a carrier to protect. And we can protect our own. We also work closely with allies.
Working closely with allies is a good point. Still history shouldn’t be forgotten. Even in WW1 the German blockade almost succeeded to deny food imports
Funny how well we can mesh well with the other nations and yet go into a mad fit when a united European forcesare mentioned.
And then expect that they’ll ride shit over the hill to save us after theā°ļøhas hit the fan.
That doesn’t make any sense. but ok.
We’re putting too much hope in the carriers, two of them don’t cover the embarrassmen we’ve become
unfortunately Robert itās our enemies which are dumping major surface warships in the sea faster that you can count them..well china is anyway and that the real enemy..letās be honest Russia for all its troublemaking would be buried by the European nations if it really startedā¦.china on the other hand that becoming a navy even the USN needs to respect..its a far greater force than the USSR ever had.
I can see the day when the RN will get the job of facing down the PLANs blue water navy in the western Indian Ocean while the USN is in a death struggle in the pacificā¦.it it already permanently based 6 major warships in that region and has 3 navel bases ( one built, one just opened and one building)..Plan has around 90 major surface combatants so it can surge a good sized force into the Indian occean ( thatās not including its 120+ green water frigates and corvettes that will be fighting in the china seas)ā¦I suspect thatās where it will also send a carrier battle group and itās larger amphibious vessels to cause trouble.
we donāt need to match the PLAN as it sticks 10 major warships a year in the occeanā¦( not including its carriers, amphibious vessels, fleet support vessels and green water warships) but the west as a whole does need to match that. PLAN is aready bigger than the USN..and itās not stopping the building programme for anything.
I would always argue that the RN could outfight the PLAN in an equidistant navel campaign ( say in the western Indian Ocean) but not anymore..the PLANs blue water capability is now really significant. Huge numbers modern large surface warships some in the 7000-13,000 ton range, large numbers of fleet support vessels, large amphibious vessels etcā¦it had already build a huge green water attrition navy that was going to be hell for the USN to engage..now itās blue water navy is huge as well.
In the Indian ocean, don’t forget that there is India right next door who have no love for the Chinese and have an aircraft carrier with another coming along. Hopefully, they would recognise the danger of a fully militarised China and if they join in, Pakistan would probably not let the Chinese use their bases for fear of Indian reprisals, so that is one less problem to deal with.
Of course, there is a risk that India maintain studied neutrality but any attempt to interfere with shipping in “their” ocean will likely annoy Mr Modi and his ilk.
Hi yes India is one of the key political warfare battle grounds, china will be trying to ensure its military and economic neutrality and the west will be trying to make it an allyā¦at present India is very much part of the block trying to combat western economic and political influence, itās a good friend of Russia, but it also sees china as a strategic threat ( as it sees the west to be honest) so it will be very interesting to see which way that goesā¦if India falls heavily into the wester side I think it would significantly reduce the risk of china going for the war option.
And Glasgow will STILL BE FITTING OUT.
We’d take 4 years to build a caravan l.
Are you saying HMS Argill was found in poor material condition 18 months into her refit? Surly that should be picked up on at the preliminary inspection or at least early work stages?
It’s a terrible position to be in at the moment, one that won’t be rectified until T26 and T31are in service in numbers, with hopefully T32 and the new RFA ships to follow.
But from a NATO perspective it is probably a good strategy to have UK CSG escort ships from other nations, to practice integration and allow their crews to be part of a meaningful offensive capability.
European navy?
CSG? Our mighty one wouldn’t bother the Belgians 12 F 35’s and a few tomahawks lobbed from a submarine? strike group, it’s more of a trade group.
How times have changed … I browsed some old issues of Navy News at the weekend. In 1970’s the RN/RM alone would routinely involve 20,000 personnel on major NATO exercises, e.g. 3 Commando Brigade plus lots of helo’s to Norway, an amphibious TG headed by Hermes or Bulwark sailing the fjords, the Ark Royal carrier strike group with its 26 Phantom’s and Buccaneer’s providing distant cover, a barrier of 8-10 SSN’s and SSK’s across the GIUK gap, and perhaps a dozen frigates and destroyers on convoy escort and other duties, all supported by numerous RFA’s and minor warships. In addition, a small TG headed by a County class destroyer or a cruiser (Tiger or Blake) might be playing Red!
I sometimes think of (but don’t live in) the past having served 1975-2009. At the start of my army service we had a British Corps of four armoured divisions in Germany, and a Div-equivalent in NI (albeit many soldiers were locally recruited UDR), and many light role brigades in GB. 900 Chieftain tanks on the books. 180,000 regulars and about 60,000 TA.
Granted the Cold War ended, as did the Troubles in NI. But Government has cut well below what a post-Cold War army was set at in the ‘Options for Change’ defence review, which included – 120,000 regs and 386 tanks. A single armoured division retained in Germany.
I understand that Shapps has said in the Telegraph (yesterday or today) that the public should not worry that the army is fast coming down to 73,000 regs as the UK will still be defended. Does he think the army just does Military Home Defence (MHD)?
Sadly what we had is what you need to defend yourself in a multipolar world in which many powers are struggling for primacy and at the core you have a conflict between power groups based on core beliefs ( humanity has alway been willing to cast itself into the abyss over core beliefs).
we are back in the same place as we were in the 1950-1990 period but have not readjusted our think to the fact we may well be in an existential struggle against a peer at any point..
defence in the 1950 to 1990 period was about deterring an enemy so we did not have to engage in another devastating war of destruction or to strategic exhaustion..we and the rest of the western world spent between 5.5-6% or our GDP every year on that task..we had hardened our populations to the goal ( even as a school child in the 1970s I knew we faced utter destruction with one wrong step)ā¦and it worked the west as a whole prevented a devastating war from happening ( in no small part because the USSR knew the Uk was utterly committed to winning wars and would not give an inchā¦Gorbachev was always open about the fact the Falklands had a huge impact on soviet thinking out the outcome of any war and perestroikaā¦as they could not see a way to beat the west via political warfare and knew we would fight a war to destruction).
Yes there was a period between dec 1991 and 2000 where it was possible we could see unipolar world in which china and Russia worked with the westā¦and dropping or GDP spend on defence was a reasonable response to thatā¦
But between 2000-2010 the warning signs were there that neither Russia nor China had really accepted the fall of the USSR as anything other than a lesson in how not to fight the west and that continued geopolitical conflict was a really..at that point we ( as in the whole of the west) should have ended the peace dividend end of history crap and started a steady investment in our armed forces to maintain a credible deterrenceā¦we instead squandered the budgets we had on the War On terror..which in the end we failed to win due to a lack of political will.
by 2011-2020 it was clear we had entered a new geopolitical and geostrategic time of conflict and the re-emergence of a multi polar world..but still the west did not react and cut its defence still furtherā¦backed up by inconsistent but hawk like foreign policy ( all mouth and no trousers)ā¦our enemies at this point started very significant re-armament programsā¦especially china putting 10 major warships a year into the commission each year for a decade as well as building a huge green water navy and vast arsenal of theatre based ballistic missilesā¦political warfare not seen since the Cold War ( and we did not even fight back)ā¦Iran built its axis of resistance and vast stocks of ballistic missiles..even Russia in its own way tried to rebuild its military ( from what was essentially complete collapse) and engaged in multiple wars of aggression. Still we did nothingā¦still spending 2% GDP on defence if your being generous ( pensions are not defence).
by the 2020s it was becoming obvious china was at least planning and preparing for a war..if not yet ready to press the button..Russia had been engaged in a war of conquest in Europe since 2014 and was hardening its rhetoricā¦Iran had but a regional power base and put Balistic missiles in the hands and supported the development of 3 large scale militaries..china stated to its people it would go to war for 2027 and spent and lost untold billions on hardening and separating its economy from the westā¦.Russia undertook a full scale invasion and threatened nuclear warā¦still we spend 2% GDP on defenceā¦itās actually crazy when you thing about it
The Uk controversy enacted the 10 year rule in 1919 ( no war for ten years on the horizon so limited spending on the military)..even the slightly war blind politicians of the interwar period ( they had been so traumatised by the Great War) gave up on the 10 year plan in 1932 as evidenced mounted..this lead to an inability to deter Hitler and the Second World War..but at least by the time it happened rearmament had occurred and we could actually fight and surviveā¦.in the 21c…we have ignored the evidence for a decadeā¦and still we only wish to spend 2% due to the peace dividend..when our enemies are even telling us they are going to go to war.bonkers totally bonkers.
Thanks Jonathan. It’s almost as if British Governments of both stripes over many decades have silently and secretly reintroduced the 10-year rule of the interwar years.
Rearmament in the mid-late 1930s was a success story (just), and Chamberlain played a positive role, despite those who only saw him as an appeaser. But we only just got to the Start Line in Sep 1939 – and that was in an era of much less complex equipment and a very strong defence industrial base.
I assume the RFA are now classed as warships, having said that the scary thing is afterwards, 8 plus the 3 in the red sea I feel a real dip in deployments afterwards
The ancient P2000 patrol boats – notorious for seasick trainees even in harbour – are increasingly being counted as “warships” to inflate numbers in press releases. The recent Telegraph cartoon of Sunak on a pedalo labelled HMS Dreadnought is uncomfortably close to the truth.
We don’t have strength to show . Shadow puppets. I have never felt so despondent over this country. I feel so sorry for the current serving forces ..neglected is the word .
We donāt have enough Sailors, Soldiers or Air force to do this, itās about time this government got theirs arses and more money into our services under the current world situation.
I was wondering whether the loan with an option to buy for one of the LCS freedom class ships from the Americans might be a good idea, the reputation of the type 4t5 was sullied in the same way as the LCS ships have been.. if anyone can get the best out of the class it is the royal navy. To buy them instead of the hassle and expense of the T32 project would be a steal. Th Americans want rid of the whole class. Half a dozen of them could be a big success, plus they are built already and systems such as sea ceptor and the 30mm canon could be cross deck onto them from a T23.