A new contract has been signed between BAE Systems and Irving Shipbuilding Inc. (ISI), marking a significant step forward in Canada’s River-class destroyer programme—the largest and most complex naval shipbuilding project undertaken in the country since the Second World War.
This agreement follows the Canadian Government’s award of an implementation contract to ISI for the first three of 15 planned warships, along with training, spares, and maintenance support.
The River-class destroyers will form the backbone of the Royal Canadian Navy’s future fleet, providing decisive combat power for naval operations and joint-force missions ashore.
The multi-billion-dollar programme aims to equip Canada’s armed forces with cutting-edge capabilities, ensuring readiness for counter-piracy, counterterrorism, intelligence and surveillance, humanitarian assistance, and search-and-rescue missions.
BAE Systems, which designed the destroyers to meet Canadian requirements, will provide technical support and consultancy services throughout the build phase. This will allow Irving Shipbuilding to leverage expertise gained from the UK’s Type 26 programme and Australia’s Hunter-class frigates.
Anderson Smith, International Programmes Director at BAE Systems, described the contract as a major milestone:
this contract marks a significant moment for the River-class destroyer programme, and I’m hugely proud of our team for their collective hard work and determination to bring us to this point. As we move into this next phase, our expertise and collaboration with our industry partners will be key to delivering a world-class capability for Canada.
Dirk Lesko, President of Irving Shipbuilding Inc, also highlighted the strategic importance of the deal:
this is a major milestone for Irving Shipbuilding and for Canada. This contract validates more than a decade of hard work by industry and government and provides stability for the hard-working men and women who design, build, and maintain Canada’s surface fleet.
The River-class programme is part of a multi-national effort between Canada, the UK, and Australia, all of whom have selected BAE Systems’ Global Combat Ship design for their future fleets. In total, the collaboration covers the construction of up to 29 ships across the three nations.
The 15 River-class destroyers will be constructed at Irving Shipbuilding’s Halifax yard in Nova Scotia, with BAE Systems’ naval shipbuilding team in Glasgow providing production support. BAE Systems already employs nearly 500 people on the project and expects to have up to 200 personnel based in Canada during the programme’s peak.
Great news. Now lets sell them a whole bunch of Typhoons. Maybe some T83’s too.
Portugal could be in the market for Typhoon as well🤞
I can see a bright future for Typhoon if the UK also add a couple of dozen. Turkey, Ireland, Saudi Arabia, Germany and Portugal would keep all the production lines busy for years. Tranche 4/5 could be pretty useful against much of the potential opposition aircraft/threats.
Ireland is never going to buy any Typhoons. 😆
Re the Typhoons. I read that the Canadians are looking at something that can specifically handle the high north / arctic in which case perhaps the Gripen is a better choice? After all, the Swedes and the Finns are using it in similar conditions to Canada. What we wish for doesn’t necessarily translate into a better operational fit?
I watched it display at RIAT 2 Years ago, it was very impressive. Only problem is it uses a license built US GE engine and that’s a major concern as the US is allegedly starting to play dirty games at the moment by blocking the sales of Gripen to encourage sales of the F16.
To be honest I can’t see Ireland buying Typhoon but Gripen would be an excellent fit.
I don’t understand, ABC, why people get so excited about the Saab Gripen – it’s comparable with a late-block F-16. But to give credit to SAAB, it does have a great radar and BVR performance – reputed to be better than Rafale.
Ireland hasn’t operated any fast-jets for over 25 years – and even then it was only a few butterfly-tailed Fouga Magisters.
It’s a noble ambition, but Ireland has a very long-haul to get fully into the fast-jet combat business.
Ideally, what Ireland initially needs to do is form a joint squadron with an air force experienced in flying long-range interception missions over her Western Atlantic approaches.
Any ideas, fellas?
The big Gripen hype I tend to see is that it’s a lot less delicate and maintenance reliant than a Vth Generation aircraft like F-35, so it can return to distributed flying off motorways actions much easier (also relatively cheap, both to purchase and to operate).
Ermm Please sir..Could it be with the RAF and with Typhoons ? It would make sense.
The gripen hasn’t won any sales to block.
You mean besides Brazil, Czechia, Hungary, South Africa, and Thailand?
They want something twin engined.
Although the F-35A Lightning is single engine.
After operating FA-18 Hornets , the Typhoon is a similar plane and with AESA radar and Meteor missiles makes sense.
How about Mosquito’s?
That’d be an amazing purchase and they count as stealth.
I will be very put out if one of our drone concepts doesn’t get named either Hornet or Mosquito when it gets into service!
To be fair, Canada has flip flopped for many years on which aircraft they should buy. Can’t see any real advantage in the Griffin option personally but then again I’m not a politician.
…Maybe the Canadians should go with interim Typhoons, then buy some Tempests. Given that the good ol’ USA put the boot in to their original Avro Arrow all-weather high-arctic long-range-interceptor, maybe a long-range interceptor version of the Tempest would fit the bill?
Come on UK Commonwealth…join the dots!
My Canadian cousin is still angry about how uncle sam killed the “arrow” and he was only a kid when it happened!
I really think this too. Time to reconnect with our loyal friends and former brothers in arms who didn’t toss their Tea Leaves overboard and killed so many English. There’s bloody Gratitude for you. A Nation born of mostly English endeavour (mostly) throwing it all back in our faces and now seemingly doing the same.
God Bless America.
This is true, but whether Typhoons or Griffens, we still have to get out of our F35 contract with the U.S.A.
Oh that’s easy, just do what the Turks did and buy an S400…
Certainly, Gripen is reputed to have a better AESA radar and BVR performance than Rafale – although the French jet is a better all round performer.
But the best operational fit for Canada is undoubtedly the Typhoon, a long-range interceptor, with multi-role capabilities. And when equipped with the powerful CAPTOR ECRS2 radar, it will have the ability to operate in a contested battlespace that will parallel the F-35.
Where the F-35 can survive using LO; Typhoon with ECRS2 will survive using EW.
Nothing about the Typhoon is long range. It has the same fuel capacity of a legacy hornet.
Yes the Gripen lost out to F-35 in the first place and they offered to open a production line in Canada. Makes a lot of sense cold proof, cheap and flexible and damn good for its cost. Considering their declining relationship with the US it makes sense as it can help re-establish their once impressive aircraft industry when a lot of top notch uk talent moved there. This might be the kick it needs to become one of the new powerhouses of the mid 21st Century, it’s rather relied too much on its big brother in the south to truly exploit its fantastic resources and potential wealth. However I think it certainly helps with Tempest Bae already has close ties to Saab and could be a useful lead in to that programme later now that otherwise automatic US programmes will be anathema as it will to many other countries contemplating F-35s. Suddenly Tempest potential has pretty much doubled overnight and will remain so u less MAGA is completely demolished which seems highly unlikely even if it starts taking big hits due to Trump and Musk mis management and dictatorial intent.
Recent article stated the Canadians are reasessing F-35 commitment. These decisions tend to occur when one unduly antagonizes long-term allies, while pandering to the MAGA political base. 🤔🙄
It’s not just that. There is the factor of ongoing costs of R&D, continued cost over runs, delays in deliveries of final production models, and most recently proclaimed, the concern over a failed code sharing with end users to access the aircrafts full abilities buy the purchasers. In other words, good old Orange blossom special could get upset and order certain features or systems be deactivated on the airframe putting the purchasing countries pilots at risk.
The gripen has an American engine
The gripen has an American engine . So it’s still gives the USA leverage
I do wonder how hard it would be for SAAB to replace the RM12 in the Gripen with the EJ200.
There similar sizes (4.04×0.87 vs 3.98×0.73) and seem to have broadly similar characteristics. I’m not suggesting that SAAB retrofits existing Gripens with the EJ200, but, with a hot Eurojet production line, SAAB could introduce a JAS39G model that it could start pitching to places like Canada….
We can only afford “a whole bunch of Typhoons” if our government gets out of the F35 deal.
Eurofighter Typhoon, equipped with the new powerful CAPTOR ECRS2 radar being built in Edinburgh, would be a good fit for the Royal Canadian Air Force. Journalist Jon Lake tweeted recently, “F-35 relies on not being seen, while Typhoon relies on an enemy being unable to do anything about what it can see!”.
Certainly radar developments are threatening the F-35s longer term value. Not only are the likes of Musk slagging it off to agent orange but even its supporters are deeply concerned about its effectiveness by mid thirties if not before. Its short range, smallish size and compromised aerodynamics represent a real problem longer term and the US to compensate was planning a fleet of expensive stealth tankers as the viability of present day conversions are increasingly looking vulnerable to long range weapons, whi h F-35 operations are rather dependent on esp as carriers are now having to operate at greater distance. Fact is the F-35 would never have been designed today as is, even NGAD was delayed due to re-contemplating these factors. As its worried about US Orders being cut (or worse) its relying on exports so it must be wetting itself presently. Worse still I only read last week that even now as deliveries have resumed the latest spec is still only being used under test conditions with another new in service date later this year and that’s just for US forces. It seems to be in a race between reaching its full potential thus becoming truly useful and hitting a point where its potential frontline strengths start to be outbalanced by its inherent weaknesses that are already looking uncomfortable. Sadly the B version is going to hit that point before the others.
Not sure why everyone says that F-35 is so short ranged, it’s got a longer combat radius than either Gripen or F/A-18, hell even F-15 needs an external fuel tank to match F-35A’s combat radius.
(a) The F35 is not short-ranged
(b) It’s aerodynamics are not compromised anymore than any other stealth aircraft, or do you just object to stealth.
(c) The stealth tankers are not for the F35 to address your imaginary issue with its range. They want a stealth tanker as all current tankers are based on commercial airliner designs and with the increasing range of air-to-air missiles they fear existing tankers won’t survive long in a war. These stealth tankers will refuel everything from F16s to B21s and B52s.
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I was thinking aloud: Could the Canadians build two T26 (RN spec) along with a follow-on order of two more from the Scottish yard? We need more surface vessels, and sharing the work with partners may be one solution. The mandate that only RN fighting ships can be built in the UK could cloud the process.
Maurice have you any idea how much the Canadian ships cost ? Same with Australia their labour costs are colossal compared to ours hence nearly 3 x the cost of ours. $8 billion for 3 ships.
The costs are key, however the urgency has more gravity. I’m talking about expediency as shown in WW2 when the RAF used Canadian-built Landcasters. The current downward slide in international affairs requires war preparations even though few countries have an appetite for conflict. Within a few years, the UK population may face air raid drills and the establishment of a Civil Defence so the public can be guided in the event of a non-nuclear misslie attack. In my mind, that’s how urgent the situation will be unless there is a significant change in defence spending, hence the purchase of warships and other kit from friendly powers.
What, you joking? Buy warships equipped with Incompatible combat systems to RN vessels? Agreed they need more warpons.
Someone did some number crunching regarding the River Class contract – taking into account exchange rates and through life costs their first Three come pretty much in the same Ball Park as our Batch 1.
That’s pretty much what I would have expected maybe the fit out would have made them a bit higher cost in my mind. Ours aren’t exactly cheap ships even though not by any means over armed.
👍Exactly!
In turn, some have long believed that either the Hunter or River Class would be a significant improvement over the Consternation Class. Oh well, another miscue and misadventure by the USN. It is not that we may require a functional fleet during the next 25 years…🤔😳🙄☹️
It is not as though…
TBF, the USN didn’t go for Type 26 because they wanted to de-risk the project by working with a design that was already in service….
And then completely mangled that design so it’s now a design that is in service anywhere… The irony 🫣
The River didn’t meet damage control specs and didn’t exist. They also want it to do 30 knots to keep up with a carrier group.
Saab needs to ditch GE jet engines. What about EJ2000+
Not, unless Canada wants to renegotiate the contract, which would certainly delay RN getting full order of 8 T26.
Excellent news. Now I’d like HMG to shove at least 2 but hopefully 4 more type 26s onto the RN programme. Now is the time to re arm whilst we can before we are thrust headlong into a war having to stop a dictator trying to build an empire via conquering our allies.
Is that comment aimed at Vlad or Donald? The sad thing is it could be either?
Or both
Both
I agree people have no real understanding of just how close the US is to a constitutional crisis, indeed I don’t think even a fair proportion of the American public do. If Trump as he is now trying can neutralise the Courts and defies them (the Venezuelan flights yesterday may already have done so) then de facto dictatorship is a certainty it’s just how long it takes, how deep it will go and what physical resistance takes place. Many have said the mid terms are likely the last chance to stop it if they can get till then and if they aren’t cancelled. I just hope Milley is right when he said the forces are responsible not to any one man or body but to the Constitution because presently Trump and Musk are carving it up into little more than meat balls and Musk knows it’s either dictatorship or prison for unlike the President he won’t have immunity after he leaves office which is why he is trying to even buy elections for judges presently to try to gain any form of protection he can.
Within the next 4 years we could see
• a police state established in the USA with Putin-style rigged elections (the FBI are already being used like SS goons to break-into agencies that operate outside of executive control)
• a split, with Democratic and Republican states forming rival nations
• civil war
• a miraculous recovery of democracy, separation of powers, and a return to the rule of law.
The last is what I hope for, but I’m not counting on it. Unfortunately too many Americans are naively closing their eyes in despair, keeping their heads down, and hoping it will all go away in 4 years…
You guys have lost your marbles. Turn off the BBC propaganda channel.
We thought we needed almost 20 ASW focused frigates in the relatively benign 1990’s which should tell us something.
Yes they still had over 200 submarines. Now Northern fleet have maybe 18 operational and Baltic has 1 🤞🏻
This or the Hunter should have been RN T26
Why?
We have T45s, so our T26 fit out is perfect for the AWS role.
Only issue is we really need 12/13 ASW hulls and ideally another 2-3 AAW destroyers.
Excellent news, Canada really needs to sustain its increase in defence expenditure and buy European if they can’t rely on America for now
The realities of ship and weapons procurement largely preclude any rapid changes in spec. Things are awkward right now to say the least, and while the Rivers are based on Type 26 hulls, their combat system, armament and sensors are largely American. The RCN is out of time on the River class, they needed them in service a few years ago and they have no time to change things at this point. Any change at all would likely add years to the first ship.
A silver lining is that by the time the first ship is delivered (2032-ish), the current US administration will already have been out of office for a couple of years. I can only imagine that things will have settled down by then.
Unless they amend the constitution to allow for more Trump Terms, or JD Vance gets in…
Trump is 78, unless they figure out a way to turn him into the Emperor from Warhammer 40K, he just won’t last forever even if he manages to get re-re-elected. I don’t know anyone who actually likes JD Vance, even the MAGA people I know don’t have anything good to say about him, even as they idolize the tangerine Mussolini. Trumpism seems very tied to Trump himself. Even so, a lot will depend on who the Democrats here pick as their front runner, I hope they don’t screw it up.
Boy are you ever out of touch. It’s obvious you are a Democrat and haven’t a clue how Republicans and Independents view Vance. MAGA loves J D Vance and he will be the Republican nominee in 2028. The Democrat Party is now at its lowest polling point in its history -a 29% favorability rating and its prospective list of candidates for the 2028 election is a joke. Kepp living in your fantasy world.
It is Europe that do not invests in defence but it is USA-Trump that is unreliable…
Trump is angling to create a political dynasty, one to overshadow the Bushes or the Kennedys. Let’s face it, getting a relative to succeed him is probably the only way he’s not going to face jail time once out of office.
As for Vance, he’s worse. Trump is in this purely the power and opportunity to enrich himself; a kleptocrat. But Vance is an ideological zealot mentored by Peter Thiel – who back in 2009 wrote that he “no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible”.
You may need to suspend your imagination, it won’t be as simple as that as we know Trump has three options, abandon elections through martial law or some excuse for an executive order, do a Putin and try to force through extra terms with corrupt elections no doubt, after all Musk is getting information on every voter to manipulate, or he will ensure MAGA have a winning candidate one way or another to take over and cover his ass. That MAGA candidate/President could very easily be worse than Trump however difficult to believe that may seem. The illegality of so many of Trump’s henchmen and women not to mention the useful idiots suggests to me they have a plan never to be called to justice and that’s scary.
Where was the panic when the DoJ was sending staff to the NYC prosecutors office to start a political witch hunt of Trump? Or when the Steele dossier was outed as a complete fabrication of British intelligence?
Or do we pretend those things didn’t happen?
Let’s hope they fit a better multi-purpose radar from the Cannucks or Aussie T26’s, remove those mushroom farms and fit mk41 only
So you don’t understand radars then, or air-defence missiles either 🤦🏻♂️
No chance of that now! CAMM used for point defence, is a fraction of the price of ESSM, and taking into account of recent probs with it on European frigates armed with ESSM.
A couple of ice breaking capable assault ships / frigates would probably be very useful in coming years… High Arctic, Svalbard, Greenland
Commission the Canadian /Norwegian Swedish ect i.e any one but American ship yards at ‘Mates rates’ as a matter of Urgency, UK Politicians get off your lazy backsides and stop bringing down our ‘Amazing Loyal Armed Forces ‘and also to those who adhere to internal service shameful derogatory banter ‘Cease forthwith ‘as a matter of National Security ,Pride as all these Negative comments are only helping and encouraging ‘Our Enemies ‘including those from within.
Maybe Canada should buy Chinese? The apoplexy might kill Trump stone dead!
Whatever they do, and Whatever they buy needs to be kept out if the grubby paws of ITAR, as soon as that’s involved the yanks can put pressure on a project, why does anyone think the Americans want in on the tempest project, its got nothing to do with wanting then at the end, it’s so they can strangle the life out of the project and then offer thier own in its place
Sadly the entire sensor suite, and weapons fit out on the River Class destroyers (minus the main gun) are US made, so too late for Canada to avoid ITAR restrictions on those. On the bright side, the main use of ITAR is to prevent resale of weapons to foreign nations, and Canada is very unlikely to be selling River Class destroyers to anyone any time soon.
I would see it a little differently, US companies want in because it makes them money and they can diversify, sadly it then inevitably brings in the problems at National leverage that you refer to. Lockheed Martin as an example are scared stiff Musk is going to sabotage them so would love foreign orders and work. One little hint of this Musk as Govt representative is trying to cancel Verizon’s overhaul of their satellite networks and support systems worth billions and surprise, surprise replacement it with his own company. Totally illegal in the way he is doing it but who is going to g to stop him beyond the Courts when the White House is being used as a car show room these days.
You forgot to mention Musk is trying to get NASA’s SLS cancelled in favour of SpaceX’s Starship. TBH the SLS is too expensive and too limited, but Musk simply shouldn’t be in a position to influence. But conflicts of interests are far down the list of issues that America had at the moment…
Musk also dreamed up the Hyperloop, by his own admission, to get California HSR cancelled so that California would remain car dependent and he could sell more Teslas.
Sorry folks if I’m totally ignorant on the topic, however, if my understanding is correct, the original tender for the warplane contract included a requirement that the winning bidder set up shop in Canada to build the birds here in Canada and to train both pilots and ground support crews here. The only bid that actually fulfilled all the requirements of the tender was the SAAB Grippon. No contract should have been awarded to any other manufacturer, period. Only pressure from the US on Canada got the F35 the contract. We are still waiting for the first bird to be delivered. We will also remain on the hook for years to come for ongoing R&D for these things. Even the planes that South Korea are flaunting are way cheaper. Best choice though is still the Grippon.
With regard to Naval procurement. The new river class boats have the US mandating systems of theirs that we have to put on board the ships? What kind of B.S. is this? This should not be allowed to happen. Additionally, we also need new subs. Again, the South Koreans have 3 built already to go. Seems like a golden opportunity to buy them and leverage the balance be built in Canada, giving or shipyards knowledge and experience that I’m sure they are lacking. If not their ships, Germany makes a beautiful little sub, nice and silent as well.
The US hasn’t mandated anything be put on the River Class. Compare the Rivers to the British City’s and Australian Hunters (same ships) which have very different equipment on board. The US systems put on board where a choice by the Canadian Govt, back during the Biden days (or even the 1st Trump presidency) when the US was seen as a very stable ally.
The US was seen as a stable ally right up to January 20th, less than 2 months ago…
Ukraine thrown under the bus, allies alienated or threatened with annexation, and a rapid dismantling of the rule of law in the USA.
We are making the Right choice, by building here in Canada. With the expertise from the zlUK. We will learn greatly from their assistance. It’s about time we build our own and keep money here in Canada. At least our Nother Country, the UK, IS providing the expertise. We must develop better ties with the Commonwealth.
Remember when T45 was being built, and the UK Gov, faced with every opportunity to NOT do so, decided to cut the number to 6 – a number bordering complete and utter irrelevance? Now we have to wait for Type 83 to plug what is a disgraceful capability gap for our fleet.
Let’s not let the same thing happen here. Order more Type 26 now while the production is in full swing, or concede that we aren’t taking a leading role in European maritime influence.
How come Canada can afford 15 of these and we can only afford 8!!?