The government has defended its support for the Eurofighter Typhoon as MPs pressed for a fresh order of the jets for the Royal Air Force, during defence questions in the House of Commons.
The Labour MP for Hyndburn, Sarah Smith, raised the tens of thousands of jobs in Lancashire that depend on fast jet production, telling the House that Britain needed new jets and had to maintain the skills required to build the next generation. She asked the government to commit to ordering British-made Typhoons for the RAF to protect those jobs and preserve the associated skills.
Defence Minister Luke Pollard, who holds the readiness and industry brief, said the government was proud to support the Typhoon and listed the steps it had taken. He pointed to a £500 million upgrade for the aircraft, including a new radar, and to the government’s role in securing the export of 20 Typhoons to Turkey.
“We are continuing to support the brilliant jobs in Typhoon production at Warton and Samlesbury and across the United Kingdom, and we are expanding into more autonomous craft as well, supporting the Typhoon for many years to come,” he said.
Pollard did not commit to a new RAF order in his reply. The Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, noted afterwards that the House was still looking forward to the next order.
The Typhoon is assembled in the UK at BAE Systems’ sites at Warton and Samlesbury in Lancashire, where the company carries out final assembly and builds major sections of the aircraft for both domestic and export customers. The wider programme is a four-nation European venture involving the United Kingdom, Germany, Italy and Spain, and the Lancashire workforce has been a recurring focus of concern as the RAF’s existing orders are completed and the production line looks toward future work.
The export deal Pollard referred to is part of an agreement under which Turkey is to receive Typhoons, a sale that helps sustain production beyond domestic requirements.
“We are continuing to support the brilliant jobs in Typhoon production at Warton and Samlesbury and across the United Kingdom, and we are expanding into more autonomous craft as well, supporting the Typhoon for many years to come,” he said.”
Is that it? Stating the obvious, throwing in “many years to come ” then mentions “autonomous craft”
What autonomous craft? And what has that to do with the lack of Typhoon?
What is the point of Pollard if he cannot answer questions clearly and give reasons as to why the RAF is not getting another order? We know why, F35 and GCAP. Because the military is not given enough funds despite the rhetoric of the likes of Pollard.
And just as bad, MPs remain utterly clueless for the most part so do not hold the government by the balls with the vagueness of their questioning, or are only asking because they have a vested interest, as usual, a local MP. All correct and good that she asks about her constituents jobs, but clearly, the fact that the RAF has too few assets is not on her radar at all.
Thus, nothing changes.
As you say Sarah Smith MP couldn’t give a rats arse if the RAF don’t have enough Typhoons to defend and project. She just wants her constituents to re-elect her. She doesn’t care if its Typhoons or Morris Minors being built on her patch.
There is no point to Pollard. He is, and always has been, a Labour luvvie who will say anything to keep his job.
Yeah but his Sister was brilliant in Hi De Hi. 😎
The reason why the Typhoon isn’t getting anymore orders is because its obsolescent and more expensive than the F35. They can’t say the truth without upsetting armchair experts and their union paymasters.
It has one enormous advantage, it has had most UK manufactured weapons integrated already. How many do the UK F35s offer now and in the next 5 or more likely 10 years?
That’s magically going to change it’s out of service date how?
Nope. It had AMRAAM/ASRAAM when it entered service. 1000lb Paveway 2 came in 2008. StormShadow, Paveway 4 and Brimstone came post 2018 under project Centurion. 15+ years after first entering service.
Mate, we have said it often enough about politicians, self interest, corrupt and liars to boot. We need another Cromwell to drain the swamp. They are nothing but fetid pondlife.
RAF scrapped 24 T1 Typhoons without replacement – it has a need for them to be replaced
The F35 is cheaper and more capable.
Nope. We don’t need Stealth Fighters to defend Falklands, so we can order the replacements for the 40, yes, 40 retired Tranche 1s.
The RAF could use some aircraft to take the role as the Bomb or Missile truck that draws enemy attention as the F-35Bs “sneak” through the lines, or as far as their Combat Radius can go, which the B variant is shortest of the lot.
And of course, Combat Air Patrol over safe skies, you don’t need stealth and you might want more weapons and staying power weapons wise.
So your idea that the taxpayers fund the purchase of a more expensive, less capable aircraft, with an out service date in 15 years time because we dont need the cheaper, more capable aircraft that has an out of service date of 2060. Are you in fact Rachel Reeves?
If you buy some nice shiny typhoons the out of service date will be pushed back. What’s more it’s likely to be pushed back anyway due to the slow progress of Tempest. Better to have a tranche of new planes rather than do a type 23 on us. Different is old ships leak, old shabby planes fall out of the sky. Last but not least, I like the F35 (think we have the wrong version but that is another story), but having a stealthy plane is not much use if you can’t put any bombs on it. We are pretty limited on how it can be utilized so cheaper in this case might not be better.
Yup, and the dependance on the US? The restrictions they can place on its use, Lockheed and it failures?
Pull my other leg, its got bells on.
So instead you want German restrictions instead.
Better than the Orange Idiot eh?
What German restrictions prevents the UK from buying Typhoons or how they are utilized? German restrictions are solely on who we can sell them to are they not? Therefore it won’t effect on any purchase we make.
The funniest thing I have read today.
Typhoon can carry Meteor, Storm Shadow, etc…(not the F35) and largely capable vs potential adversaries, namely Russia
If we placed an order now, we wouldn’t receive the jets until the early 2030s. Typhoon is a great aircraft today, but by the time they’re delivered and have another 20 to 30 years of service ahead of them, are we really going to want to be relying on them into the 2050s and 2060s? I don’t think so.
The plan was to have the 27 F-35s delivered by 2033, but the longer this DIP nonsense drags on…
Then there’s GCAP to consider.
#ThatPlaneHasFlown
And its more expensive and less capable than the F35, which will be flying into the 2050s
But it works, it is sustainable and in regular action. The UK F35B fleet has shockingly low availability and has rarely been used in combat missions.
For air defence, Typhoon will remain effective for years.
Hear, hear… the F35 is an American a Boondoggle that is now being paid for by the rest of the world.
The second funniest.
That’s another thing mate.
We might be about to commit ( or not ) 12 billion to GCAP to develop it, costing that amount in kit for other things, as the big ticket items and industry are prioritised over all else.
All we hear about is Drones?
So, I ask, why GCAP? I don’t want to know about “think of the industrial benefits, think of the jobs, I’m talking purely on military capabilities and needs.
Clearly, Drones are NOT the be all and end all. Otherwise, why GCAP? Build a long range Drone, enabled by AI.
Good question. In part the answer is that a large stealthy airframe that does not rely on 5th generation high maintenance stealth coatings, will provide both air superiority and long range strike. One report suggests a combat radius on internal fuel of 1000 miles and the ability to cross the Atlantic without air to air refuelling.
Yes, I’d read she’s going to be a big girl.
Or even as a mother for Drones?
‘All we hear about is drones?’
Indeed, And of course the ‘game’ has changed. But let’s play a hypothetical for a second. Imagine nuclear weapons weren’t part of the equation and NATO entered the war.
What would we do to defeat Russia? Would we get to the front lines and just exchange drones? No. We’d spend billions in the first few days on SEAD/DEAD, achieve air superiority over eastern Ukraine, and then manoeuvre warfare would make a comeback.
People here say all the time that tanks, helicopters, etc are too vulnerable in the ‘drone age’… but everything is vulnerable without air superiority. That’s why it’s such a major part of NATO spending and doctrine.
So, to summarise (I’m on holiday and a little drunk), Russia probably has more to learn from NATO (about achieving air superiority) than NATO has to learn from this war.
EXACTLY.
On paper the Typhoon is more expensive than F35A in initial procurement cost. Its similar in terms of cost per flight hour. It doesn’t have the versatility of F35B to be used on carriers. It is a 4.5 gen and not a 5th gen fighter. Its not a stealth fighter. We make 15% of each aircraft.
On paper its a no brainer. Why would you purchase anymore typhoons?
The reality? Its a British made so a lot more of each aircraft is assembled in the uk which supports jobs and the economy hence the cost to the government is subsidised by money coming back in through tax. It has British weapons, we are in charge of the time scale and the ability to add new weapons (such as the anti drone missiles added last month in response to the Iran War). Due to the demand of the F35 any new orders are unlikely to arrive any time soon! We may need them before they arrive. Keeping Wharton working and producing planes until GCAP starts production is essential to retain skills. Does Turkeys 20 Typoons fill this gap? Probably not. We dont want to loose that experience like we did in the ship building sector and then go through the expensive program of regenerating the skills.
But in truth there isnt much money for either as its being spent on drones and GCAP.
Fingers crossed for some good news from the DIP
I can see Warton being kept busy with Redhawk T-7 assembly.