The SNP is not serious about independence or defence and is taking its supporters for fools, Labour MP Graeme Downie has said, responding to an interview in which the party’s Westminster leader confirmed he has written and costed a plan for an independent Scottish army, navy and air force but is holding it back until the next independence referendum debate, in a statement to the UK Defence Journal.
Downie, who has represented Dunfermline and Dollar since 2024 and whose constituency contains the Rosyth yard where the Type 31 frigates are being built, said: “This interview just sums up that the SNP aren’t serious about independence or defence and are taking their supporters for fools.
“They claim to have yet another secret plan for something they have no clue about. For years the SNP have failed to support UK defence, instead choosing to focus on petty ideology.
“They say they want to be in NATO and enjoy protection from a nuclear umbrella but not have it based in Scotland. They say they want to support defence jobs but have taken no action to build the skills the defence industry needs. They say they support our armed forces but stop Cadet units from building valuable community links by banning activity inside state schools.
“This is the same story from the SNP. Secrecy, fantasy and no serious plan for Scotland’s security.”
Dave Doogan, the SNP’s Westminster leader and the member for Angus and Perthshire Glens, told this publication that he drafted and costed the plan about two and a half years ago, that it now needs a refresh, and that he would publish it once enough people were asking the question. “Why not release the defence plan now? Well, a good reason is that it needs a refresh, but it’s designed to answer a question when enough people are asking that question, and that will come when we’re having the next independence referendum debate,” he said.
The plan assumes a budget of around five and a half billion pounds a year, drawn from Scotland’s existing share of British defence spending, and a conventional three service structure generated over time. Doogan also said an independent Scotland would not press a claim on British military equipment if doing so damaged what remained of the United Kingdom, telling this publication that “if we were to claim our share of eight per cent or whatever of UK assets, and that caused major difficulties for the UK, well, we just wouldn’t do it because it’s not intelligent.”
On skills, the Scottish Government confirmed this month that it will match fund two Defence Technical Excellence Colleges, one on each coast, after Luke Pollard offered the money in March as part of a £50 million Scotland Defence Growth Deal. The Scottish Affairs Committee reported in September that progress on the colleges had fallen behind equivalent work in England and urged both governments to act with greater urgency, and this publication has reported that Scotland risks missing out on the defence spending boost without a bigger skills base.
Downie has been among the more active Scottish Labour members on defence since the election, pressing on submarine dismantling at Rosyth and on the industrial base. Wes Streeting told the Commons yesterday that he wants the Defence Technical Excellence Colleges backed with £50 million in England to expand to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and offered to work with the Scottish Government on the defence of the United Kingdom regardless of constitutional differences.
The SNP have no interest in defending Scotland and are a party with questionable morality and common sense. They have been squandering public money on pet projects and are divisive and dishonest.
Actually if you researched you would find every part of your comment to be wrong. Individuals are possible dishonest, but not everyone. The organisation is not dishonest and is no more divisive than the continual swings, historically Labour and Conservative, and now we have Reform, Restore et al ALL indulging in divisiveness. EVERY election is inherently divisive. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong in examining alternative ways of doing things. ALL successful business do that all the time, and so in fact does politics, which is the reason for elections, reviews, consultations and more. What pet projects that are any different in impact than all the pet projects indulged in by the Tories and Labour parties? Pet projects like railways, boat-stopping, and many many many more costing many tens of times more than anything done in Scotland?
By all means make your opinions known, but at the least provide a bit of background and balanced context.
There are plenty of documented plans for the defence of Scotland, and at least they are articulated, unlike the head in the sand attitude post ‘peace-dividend’ and ‘austerity tax cuts’.
The UK’s defence is entirely dependent on membership of NATO, in particular air and naval, and especially reinforcement from the US. It could be argued that we do not necessarily need a large standing army due to the likelihood of being directly invaded, and as such a large army being only really of use on an expeditionary basis in invading/liberating another country. But the other aspects of border and overhead protection are paramount. Perhaps people should watch ‘Wargame’ as that spells out the reality. Beware of pots calling kettles black, especially when it was the pot deciding on plans and budgets.
Nickc,
Can I point you to “Building a New Scotland: An independent Scotland’s Place in the World” 2024.
“Defence, peace and security in an independent Scotland
The defence and security of its people is the first duty of every independent country’s government. This paper sets out how an independent Scotland would benefit from a modern, effective and flexible defence and security capability.
An independent Scotland would have its own armed forces, supported by a modern contract for personnel and strong support for veterans. Decisions on future forces capability would be informed by a comprehensive, expert-led Defence and Security Review. This would ensure that planning and capability were responsive to the threat environment and geopolitical challenges in play at the point of independence. This would be aligned with Scotland’s priorities as an independent country – joining NATO, committing to the EU’s Common Security and Defence
Policy and building a collaborative, mutually beneficial defence and security relationship with the UK as well as other key strategic partners.
This Scottish Government proposes that an independent Scotland would apply to join NATO and would seek discussions with NATO leaders at the earliest opportunity following a vote for independence. It would commit to defence spending of 2% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), recognising NATO’s enduring commitment to invest in defence capabilities.
As part of the EU, this Scottish Government would also participate fully in the EU’s Common Security and Defence Policy. Scotland would contribute to missions that support global peace and security, and in doing so, join the family of nations fully committed to the international rules-based system and multilateralism.
The third pillar of an independent Scotland’s defence and security policy would be our relationships with our nearest neighbours in the United Kingdom and Ireland. An independent Scotland would build on our strong relationships with the other nations and governments across these isles to ensure our mutual safety.
This Scottish Government would make it a cornerstone of defence policy that an independent Scotland would only participate in overseas military operations that are lawful, approved by Scottish Ministers, and authorised by the Scottish Parliament. Furthermore, nuclear weapons should be removed from Scotland in the safest and most expeditious manner possible following independence. Neither of these proposals would prevent Scotland’s ability to act in self-defence or join NATO.”
“At the point of independence” the Scottish Government will start to plan to defend Scotland with what?
That is too late.
Publish the current plan for the defence of Scotland as an independent nation now!
The SNP have already agreed that the defence of the UK and Scotland would be damaged by Scotland taking any (8%) share of the current UK armed forces. So Scotland needs to build it’s own sovereign defence force.
Quote: “The defence and security of its people is the first duty of every independent country’s government.”