In a video message, Airbus CEO Tom Enders has again urged UK decision makers to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

The world’s second-largest aerospace group employs 14,000 people in Britain, including 6,000 at its main wings factory at Broughton, Wales, and 3,000 in Filton, western England, where wings are designed and supported.

You can watch the video message here.

He praised the UK for having been at the forefront of global aviation for more than a century, but states that a no-deal Brexit will lead to Airbus making “potentially very harmful decisions for its operations in the UK”.

Enders condemned the uncertainty over the UK’s arrangements as a “disgrace” and describes any suggestion that the scale of Airbus’s large production operation assures its UK presence as incorrect.

“Please don’t listen to the Brexiteers’ madness which asserts that, because we have huge plants here, we will not move and we will always be here,” Enders said in a statement released by Airbus.

“They are wrong.

“Of course, it is not possible to pick up and move our large UK factories to other parts of the world immediately. However, aerospace is a long-term business and we could be forced to redirect future investments in the event of a no-deal Brexit.”

Katherine Bennett CBE, Senior Vice President for Airbus in the UK, adds:

“We fear some MPs see no-deal as a genuine option and for this reason we’re speaking out louder than ever before because this is too important a moment to let pass without some truths being known.”

Airbus is one of the largest commercial aerospace employers in the UK and its biggest civil aerospace exporter; the biggest supplier of helicopters in the country; the UK’s largest space company and provider of military satellite communications and bills itself as the biggest supplier of large aircraft to the Royal Air Force.


    • Yep. It’s not just airbus. Sony and Panasonic and p&o and Dyson are already shifting. The medicines and backing agencies are going too. There’ll be more. The pride and confidence we have in our country does not keep people their jobs. They are separate issues.

      • Dyson having been a lead proponent of Brexit is a huge hypocritic. Having promoted he should be sticking here sink or swim. As with Boris, Davies et al. seems was quite happy to promote it but when actually happens quietly moves out of the limelight and looks after own personal interests.

        • Dyson just tripled his UK work force to over 4000, he is only sending two UK executives to Singapore! He’s just making the most of the opportunity of cheap labour and huge markets in the Far East. He will be staying in the UK.

        • DYSON is a global player . He doesn’t design stuff in his shed anymore ( or was that Trevor Bayliss and the wind up radio) Anyway, as said he is moving some execs only to maximise the push into the Far East.

      • Some like Dyson are moving more out of fear of UK politics shifting left. Handing over 10% of a company you built from scratch and higher tax bill are great incentives to move to a business friendly environment. Brexit is a great cover for moving without making your decision political.

          • Dyson is merely responding to the dynamics of the world economy. To be really competitive you have to operate on a global basis. Even the likes of Boeing and Lockheed Martin operate this way. But as far as Britain’s membership of the EU is concerned, Dyson is well and truly ‘living in a vacuum’! Sorry…

  1. Currently you have a pretty short supply chain, eg Kitts Green to Wales for wing spars. Moving production and keeping costs low would also mean moving suppliers, renegotiating contracts (an airbus specialty) and generally screwing up their operations. All at a time when they’ve just been unable to fulfill the A400M contract they initially promised, with Boeing making noises about being keen to take over if they leave.

    Might not be too wise for Airbus to rock that boat.

    • Airbus are being used as a bargining chip on both sides. The UK knows they cannot up sticks and leave immediately and that the EU are unlikely to put in obstacles that screws up their production line. But if there is no deal you can bet the EU will tell them they have x number of years to move all production out of the UK. All re-location costs would likely be funded through the EU or countries themselves trying to attract jobs.

      • Moving AIRBUS wing production and the associated cost of doing it would make a huge hit on their bottom line. Boeing would be rubbing their hands with glee at the ensuing chaos and cost over runs that would develop.

    • Highly likely that this outburst from Airbus is at the behest of Phillip Hammond. The biggest problem arising from his back room shenanigans is that all the gloom and doom becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

      • Even if you’re right, do you think that leave supporting MPs aren’t involved in back room deals? There’s back room stuff going on on both sides, Davis and Johnson are being paid by JCB for example. However the weight of evidence is that leaving with no deal would be devastating to our economy and people. Belief alone is not enough, it is NEVER enough. Belief can help you carry out a plan, can push you through to the end, but the plan itself must be sound first. And leaving with no deal is not even a plan, it’s an abandonment of all reason.

      • Even if you’re right, do you think that leave supporting MPs aren’t involved in back room deals? There’s back room stuff going on on both sides, Davis and Johnson are being paid by JCB for example. However the weight of evidence is that leaving with no deal would be devastating to our economy and people. Belief alone is not enough, it is NEVER enough. Belief can help you carry out a plan, can push you through to the end, but the plan itself must be sound first. And leaving with no deal is not even a plan, it’s an abandonment of all reason.

        • Amazing this no deal lark.

          First we had sift brexit. Equals no brexit.
          Then we also had hard brexit. Which in real terms means brexit. Leave.

          Notice how those terms have vanished from msm and now it’s no deal, cliff wages and crashing out.

          A deal basically means remaining in the very things the majority voted to leave.

          A major problem. As any “deal” is constructed by the EU to hamstring the country leaving. Us. Brill.

          And one of mankind’s biggest mysteries how other nations cope perfectly well on WTO rules augmented by free trade deals where possible yet the UK is totally unable to and we will run out if sandwiches shortly!

          • Thats Because most of the nations in the WTO have trade deals already thats why they are doing fine, we will have none when leaving the EU.Correct me or explain other????

          • But they don’t though. In fact no other nation on earth uses only WTO terms, none! Even North Korea has some preferential trade deals. WTO regulations are not a panacea they are the bare minimum of what is required for countries to trade, all other countries try to improve on them. Throughout the referendum no one seriously claimed we would leave on WTO terms.

            This is a problem that is rooted in no one on either side defining what they actually wanted, only what they didn’t want. You’ve acknowledged that people voted leave for many different reasons. In order to make progress we need to know what will actually command majority support and crucially where that intersects with what is actually achievable. There isn’t a majority opinion for no deal, in fact the latest polls indicate there is majority support for ANY option that is NOT no deal.

            Liam Fox said doing a deal would be the easiest in the history of mankind and that he’d have 40 trade deals done the second we voted to leave, it wasn’t and he hasn’t. There is precious little left of what vote leave said could be accomplished. But we voted to leave, and I accept that, despite the evidence of foreign interference and the certainty that vote leave were found to be cheating by the electoral commission.

            Brexit means leaving the European Union. EFTA would place us outside the EU, the PMs deal places us outside the EU as do other ideas around a single market, customs union deal. Would we be subject to some EU rules, of course, but how else are we to maintain common grounds for trade? All trade deals with any other nation, come with rules, regulations and a method for dispute resolution, all of them.

            There is no outcome in which this country can prosper on its’ own, so the question is who do we ally ourselves with. Our closest trading partners geographically, which is what every other nation tends towards, for reasons of practicality and logistics, or throw all those deals to the wind and attempt to trade with countries thousands of miles away instead, at first on WTO terms, which every other nation tries to improve on.

            The majority support is for a deal of some kind. We should pick whichever of those gives us the most economic benefit and still means we’re outside the EU. If you still think leaving with no deal is a good idea, you’re not in the majority and you’re advocating against the weight of evidence, in effect you’re gambling with the livelihoods of every citizen of this country.

          • Additionally. Nigel Farage said during the referendum that airbus would never move production from Wales. Apparently he was wrong about that too.

          • Richard. That is what I said. We would have FT deals. With the EU and many others. So problem being?

            The EU have structured these talks on withdrawal agreement first. Money first. Rights first.

            Trade talks are yet to start. And when they will there will be a FT deal, because their trade deficit depends on it.

            I did not say no FT and WTO only.

            People are deliberately confusing a deal and a deal, to suit their narrative.

          • Strange Richard the latest ICM poll in the Guardian ( of all places ) showed no deal has the greatest support.

            Crooked deals leaving us tied to the EU in all but name are the premise of the globalist elite, of which the “establishment” in this country have vested interests. Take Mr Soames for example.

            WTO is the initial default position in time supplemented by 45 bilateral comprehensive FT agreements and morphing 70 other EU ones into UK ones.

            Short term pain or disruption, for long term gain.

            Sadly so many cannot see that.

      • That’s just another theory and typical of Brexit rhetoric. Why take the risk? Absolute craziness and for no proven benefit

      • Dave, please dont question the leavers fantasy, first the claims wer that the EU needed us more and we had the upper hand, now its all for no deal, funny how that was never mentioned at the start. No matter the argument, leavers will keep claiming a no deal is good and make excuses for some mythical “short term pain” whatever that means

  2. ……and this is all because hundreds of thousands of people voted in a pointless referendum to stop the “bloody immigrants taking our jobs” If it wasn’t so sad it would be laughable.

        • Which has not changed a bit. As the population is still rising at 300,000 plus a year.

          But it suits your narrative to suggest it was ALL about that, when in fact people have varied reasons for voting out, over decades of forming an opinion.

          • Think back to the referendum Daniele and the two main complaints from people on the streets intending to vote leave and they were about immigration and the money we “sent” Europe. You are right about immigration though and it will continue to rise because otherwise our economy will grind to a halt.

          • No narrative from me. It’s clear that the Turkey lies tipped the scale – after which the clown Johnson, as Foreign Sec, was talking about helping Turkey join.

          • What I find sad is that y’all genuinely believe that is why they voted that way. Making a caricature of your opponent is why your side lost as inevitably you make a caricature of yourself.
            Instead of approaching voters as a fellow and patriotic citizen, Remain inevitably came across as a snide preacher passing judgement, a shrieking kindergarten school mistress, or even and much worse as someone claiming to be your fellow citizens master “who know what’s best for the ignorant racists”.
            Never once did Remain approach voters as fellow citizens who believed being in the EU was what was best out of filial love of Flag and Country. At no time did the Remainers drape their movement in the Union Jack instead the Flag of Europe was displayed prominently with remainers still painting their faces with it to this day at protests.
            Instead they tried coercion by fear and double dealing by parliamentarians who vote against the stated will of their districts. Of course it was rejected as a malignant force by the working class. As it would be by any sane country.

    • And of course Geoffrey the irony being that millions of immigrants will continue to come but just from other countries. Britain has a massive skills crisis and always will due to its culture. Without immigration, many businesses and sectors would collapse as would the NHS. Even financial services are “Crown Jewels” is rammed with foreign workers. Britain creates an environment for companies to excel but this happens in the most part because of our immigration policy

  3. Fortunately, the annals of history will still say ‘The United Kingdom left the European Union at 11pm on the 29th March 2019’.
    And at the bottom there’ll be a footnote that will say ‘repeated statements of Blackmail from European manufacturing CEOs didn’t make a blind bit of difference’.
    So jog on.

  4. Airbus should be lobbying the French Government with the same intensity! The reality of Brexit is that both sides stand to lose billions if handled badly. It’s about time the thousands of European companies who trade with the Uk, woke up and made their voices heard in Brussels. We all know the zealots in the EU high ground, don’t understand the concept of challenging their intransigence, but Airbus won’t welcome the prospect of establishing an alternative wing manufacturing plant, as main production lines could grind to a halt.

  5. My view, Airbus knows it will require a huge cash injection from the rest when the UK leaves. That is money which will be less than it wants and will be late . A little why the entire EU crowd want to reverse a legal vote (Like it did with France/Denmark and Ireland) so as to keep their spending going.

    Oh and by the way, I voted remain, but I am sick to death of the bullying , lies, misinformation and backstabbing from the remain crowd. Personally I would like to see all the remain MPs sacked. the likes of the BBC (Tax payer funded) censored and silly little idiots happy to promote that they want to see old people killed off fined £1000 each in which to show them the errors of their ways.

    • Matey well said , here’s me thinking even this site had succumbed to a bunch of rather silly people who spout baseless opinions and display a woeful understanding and knowledge on matters military now talking brexit .The armchair general crowd who’s posts read like they are still 12 playing with toy soldiers in their bedrooms whilst simultaneously acting like they are privy to the latest gov intel or were present during design phase of weapons or know what is being discussed by the top brass or political elites. These folks just basically devalue what is a rather sporting and informative site only spoiled by having a comments section.17.4 million of us gave a simple answer from a remain leave choice. Airbus ,mr Enders and the rest of the globalist elites,big money corporations and the like will do say anything to try and prevent us from controlling our LAWS MONEY BORDERS and deciding our own regulations so on and so forth. Who dares Wins!

  6. I am getting all confused, Airbus is saying that they will leave the UK if there is no deal on the table. The EU is saying that the withdrawal agreement must be signed before they will negotiate a trade deal. Rheinmetall has just bought a 55% share of BAE land systems for future potential development. If the UK is going to be in such a bad place after Brexit why would Rheinmetal invest? If the UK is going to be in such a good place then why would Airbus think about leaving. It seems that it is not only the politicians that cannot agree on what will happen but industry as well.

  7. Hmm, i thought the value of the GBP was going to collapse if we leave, wouldnt that give AIRBUS a cost advantage in the global competition for sales ?

  8. Im not eqnomics except buy any means. However, in my mind wouldn’t the best option be to just declare ourselves a completely free trade country. Along with making central London a low tax zone for business management especially for the financial industries. That way not only would we attract more international business but we would also have less disruption if we have a no deal brexit as British industry suppliers would not be delayed from coming in to the UK from the EU. In fact they may latter find better and more cheaper resources from outside the EU.

    • We don’t want wealthily people or international business, they’re the evil global elite. We have no need for their money.

      Joking aside your right imagine if we could attract companies like Google or Apple to locate their HQ to the UK we’d get some nice increases in tax so we could spend more on defence. Google Amazon Facebook Apple (GAFA) make more than the entire UK economy. Sadly the UK is more likely to drive business away than attract them.

      • Why would google and Facebook leave sunny CA for rainy uk? The US government is all over them and they get away with everything. We would regulate the hell out of them (and rightly so), not an attractive proposition for them

      • I thought the elites were the ones blocking Brexit?

        “the globalist elites,big money corporations and the like will do say anything to try and prevent us from controlling our LAWS MONEY BORDERS” – los pollos

        So are we meant to like them or hate them in post-Brexit Britain? All gets very confusint.

        • I think the general public have no idea of who the supposed Elite are, they’re not given names. Are they people like the boss of Heineken, I mean how dare she live in London and bring money from global beer sales to the UK.

    • Because our market would be unprotected from cheaper imports, developed to lower safety, environmental and worker standards. While ours exports would be taxed and uncompetitive abroad. Or companies would start to fold and be bought out and our trade deficit would balloon even further. Our service exports make up for our goods deficit, stopping us hemoraging currency. No deal is economic suicide. Our economy has been signing with the European Union economies for forty five years, you can’t cut that off suddenly.

  9. Depends on if it is a chaotic no deal or a managed no deal.
    A managed no deal need not be a disaster. However, it will need time to set up.
    MPs who want to delay Brexit, should listen to senior EU voices. That senior Belgian MEP, said he would be happy to delay Brexit until 1st July. That is when the new Euro parliament meets without UK members. He wants Britain out by then, so there can be a fresh start.
    1st July Brexit gives both sides time to work out arrangements at ports/airports, buy new equipment, train staff, etc.
    A managed no deal on 1st July could work, but it needs both sides to agree to it PDQ.

      • If you are trying to do a full deal, then you are right.
        If on the other hand, you are just trying to agree the minimum to stop the borders (ports/airports) seizing up, then there is time for a simple deal. The full deal would come years later.
        Two years of posturing on both sides, is not the same as six months mutual hard graft to stop chaos.

  10. Would the UK be in this position ( facing Blackmail from a large multinational throwing its toys out of pram at a democratic vote ) if it’s aerospace industries were still by and large home owned?

    Perhaps we should take a leaf out of Corbyn’s book and actually support home industry ( I agree with him ) and dare I say start another wing making business using some of the money at present going to the EU in fees, or using some of the money in coming in future due in tariffs on EU goods, which will be vast until they wake up that a free trade deal is in all our interests.

    Or is my pro Brit wish utterly slanderous to the EU ( Political Union ) loving Remainers?!

      • Then sell….something else? Or make wings better, cheaper.

        Oh hang on I forget T Mays “deal” we are not allowed to undercut others with cheaper tariffs than the EU one. Forget what paragraph it’s in.

        They call it a “Level playing field”

        I call it the EU shitting itself at competition.

          • Yeah cos that’s how markets work. A start up aviation manufacturer with no customer base goes from zero to undercutting the biggest aircraft companies in the world. It’s so depressing hearing stuff like this. It’s thousands of people’s jobs on the line. It seems easy to be blasé about other people’s jobs.

          • If Airbus abandons the UK, what does it do about the A330neo & the A350? These are powered by Rolls-Royce engines only.
            Of course they could switch to American engines, but that would take at least two to three years.
            Do they want Toulouse standing idle for years?

  11. Everyone’s a Bloody politician !!!

    Great thread though, Really enjoyed the “Chicken Chicken” post about Us being “Armchair Warriors ” whilst He does exactly the same. Priceless.

    Can’t wait till Happy Hour Later.

  12. Danielle,

    That’s a simplistic interpretation of the Guardian/ICM poll. It’s true it says that the most popular option is no deal at 28%. but popular and majority are not synonymous, clearly 28% is not a majority. Of the other options, the majority 58% want to pursue ANY course of action that ISN’t no deal. Therefor the majority opinion is against no deal not for it. 11% don’t know and 3% support something else not polled.

  13. I realise my opinion will have no popularity here.

    There is no benefit to Brexit.

    I am not from the armed forces, but I do recognize their importance.
    I work for a company that provides major resources to the military.

    Absolutely NOTHING of Brexit will make things better or cheaper.

    The military are famously capable seeing through BS to see the truth.
    It is time to prove it.

    Most of you have a military background, tell me – honestly – how Brexit will benefit the services.

  14. I think the comments in the Telegraph explain why this is total BS created by eu loving bodies. Read them!

    Plus this written by someone: Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
    Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
    Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
    Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
    British Army’s new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
    Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
    Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
    M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
    Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
    Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
    Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
    Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
    Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
    Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
    ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
    Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
    JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU ‘regeneration’ grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
    UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
    Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
    Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
    The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
    Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it’s Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
    39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
    The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.

    Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn’t paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don’t even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.

    I haven’t detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don’t even go there.
    I haven’t mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.

    Find something that’s gone the other way, I’ve looked and I just can’t. If you think the EU is a good idea,
    1/ You haven’t read the party manifesto of The European Peoples’ Party.
    2/ You haven’t had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
    3/ You don’t think it matters.

    OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it

    To add. When it was said there was too much Steel making capacity in eec, ec, eu who took the hit? When Germany builds taxpayer funded ships, as with France Italy Netherlands etc they don’t abide by eu rules on procurement and undermine the potential of their industries. Another example, Kirkstall Valley Forge, closed and turned into housing. The reason, it was said to be an old site even though it made money. Yet being old and not invested in by it’s foreign owners still saw all the tooling go to Germany! Siemens took over the steam turbine manufacturing at Heaton (the area where the steam turbine was invented). The manufacturing was taken away from there but kept in Germany, with only maintenance and engineering design (to benifit the manufacturing done elswhere) carried out at Heaton now.

    The closest example to me was the Ford Transit site going at Eastleigh with eu money Loans or grants ecb etc (much of it our money) going to Turkey, to set up there. All this happened before the vote in June 2016. I vote for my Country to be Sovereign and because of what has happened above. A vote for some sort of deal was never on the voting paper either!

    • Darren
      I share your concern about the contraction of UK industry.
      But I think all your extract from the Telegraph has demonstrated is that other countries in the EU seem to have thriving manufacturing industries. Indeed some, like the Germans, still seem to value making “stuff”! I’m not sure that is universally the attitude in Whitehall, or the City of London.
      I think the loss of sections of British industry is less to do with the EU (or perfidious foreigners), and simply more to do with the somewhat “laissez-faire” attitude which British governments have adopted towards manufacturing industry during the last 40 years.
      The British are free-traders; we have decided to operate an open economy which is relaxed about ownership. Indeed free-trade is regularly extolled by Brexiters in our forthcoming new post-EU world.
      It’s always easy to blame others for misfortune – but I think the fundamental reasons for the decline in British industry may be somewhat closer to home.
      Good to debate with you.

      • The Business rates on industrial sites are three times higher in the UK than the EU average. When it was suggested that UK Gov should help its industry by lowering rates to the EU average, the EU warned the UK Gov that would be considered illegal state aid.
        Its not as if we would be undercutting them, just going to their average.
        The British Gov gave way, as usual.

    • Darren I voted to leave but you cant blame the EU for these industries and businesses leaving or failing in the UK. The fault sits 100% with UK Governments that have happily resided over the selling off or destruction of much of British industry. In a country where the quick buck is king, long term investment in R&D, training and manufacturing is just not the done thing. Much better to undermine a steady FTSE listed company and then make some cash from the takeover or just asset strip it.
      Now in any other developed country, Germany, France, Holland and even the USA national interest would be protected but here you hear the same old tired words “free market, global Britain, open for business etc”.
      Airbus is a great example, 20% funded by the UK taxpayer, those shares passed to BAE when privatised who then sell the stake to France and Germany. All for the sake of placating the City of London and that short termism that hinders UK business.
      Of course 30%+ of UK wealth is generated in the City, the rest has been sold to pay for them. There has of course been one great exception to this rule, The banks themselves who suddenly when bankrupt were too big to fail and got £Bns in state aid.
      Sorry but our problems largely come from our own politicians and lets be honest when given the chance to show how they can work together in the national interest after the referendum they have utterly failed. It is hard to believe but 27 countries look more united than one.
      Instead of acknowledging the vote and developing a united front in what were going to be difficult negotiations with the EU they have played politics and tried to rerun the referendum and to quote one labour MP “because those kids who were 16 and 17 in 2016 could now vote and shouldn’t they have a say”. Imagine that brain with those of Cameron’s and Osborne leading the remain campaign – How could they fail.
      We deserve better.

    • Well said and about time it was said,we have been comprehensively buggered by first the EEC and then by the EU,on the 29th of March we begin another chapter in our long and glorious history free at last from the shackles of the horrid little technocrats that run the EU for themselves and their dictatorial,elitist,illiberal globalist racketeering mates.

    • Interesting comments….if you are right then we should leave. However, I suspect, as other posts have pointed out, that British economic policy is as much to blame. Thatcher started it! A third of British manufacturing bit the dust under her leadership. We need government policies that prioritise British industry. Thatcher railed against Heath for bailing out Rolls-Royce arguing that industry should stand on it’s own feet. RR had significant cash flow problems with developing the RB211….the engine that led to the highly successful Trent family. God bless Ted Heath!

  15. Alan, sorry looks like I said the same thing but you must think and type quicker than me. Of course if you voted remain and I to leave that might suggest that actually normal people on both sides of the argument are just fed up with the incompetence of UK politicians. Anyway perhaps someone could send these comments to our MPs because the quality of the debate on here seems far higher than that which we see on our TVs. All the best

  16. Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium, Ireland and by some measures France all have a higher GDP per capita that the UK – some of them considerably so. Look it up for yourself – it’s very clear.

    They are all in the apparently stifling EU.

    How would a brexiteer explain that?

      • Because since 1979 we’ve mainly had governments pursuing ‘neo liberal’ low tax trickle down economics, aka make the rich richer. Also called voodoo economics by the late Republican US president G H W Bush. That and austerity are among the causes of the leave vote.

        • And yet Bush normally supported those type of policies. Also he was Neoconservative not Neoliberal. The faces of the Neoliberal crowd in the 90s were Clinton and Blair.
          Trickle down works but only so long as you restrict the supply of labor and prevent the export of jobs.
          The issue is governments oftentimes only do the first part and cut taxes without adopting any measures in regards to the supply of labor and the export of jobs overseas. The reason you need the tax cuts is no one has ever gotten a job from a poor man.

          • Ummm actual almost all UK and US political leaders have been basically neoliberals or neoliberal puppets since the 1980s. Even neoconservatism is build on neoliberal principles of market dominance and deregulation. With a specific set of foreign polices added for fun.

            In fact I would say the only US leader since Reagan and thatcher really embedded neoliberalism in the 1980s is president trump, as his protectionist, control of markets for the national good goes against classic neoliberal thinking (of which the purists would see their own citizens lose out if the market dictated it should) I suspect it’s part of his appeal to working class voters.

            Neoliberalism is only really good for an internationalist class of super rich, who effectively purchased our political classes a while back, it hides under many names: Thatcherism, new labour, neoconservative etc etc… its long term aim is to remove nation states from the equation and have pure market forces act between a class of sovereign individuals (everyone else, infact whole populations become tradable assets between these individuals).

            Read the sovereign individual by (Baron) William reese-mogg (a proper neoliberal, just like his son) It’s an eye opening insight into the precieved endgame of the Neoliberal movement.

            You must remember there is nothing of the social liberal in the Neoliberal ( although some of the puppets such as new labour, can have socially liberal views) it’s a sort of ecconomic libertarianism where only the super rich sovereign individual has any liberty.

            Infact the only two places neoliberalism does not generally hold sway is in the nationalist right wing and socialist left wing (not new labour). It probably why we are seen a rise popularity in these to ends of the political spectrum (people sort of get there is an issue with the super rich and global markets)

      • A remainer (like me) wouldn’t try to explain it actually. I use it to highlight the fact that there are countries in the EU which are economically more successful than us and there are those which are worse. It therefore strikes me as odd to suggest that the EU is intrinsically stifling to an economy and we’d be better outside – it clearly isn’t stifling in the cases of those countries mentioned. You prob need to look closer to home if you really want an explanation: the issue is and has always been in Whitehall which has seen manufacturing as a poor relation to service industries. So when I hear Brexiteers saying ‘we’ will take back control, this ‘we’ is actually a group of people who haven’t got it particularly right. I therefore like the check and balance that the EU has brought and will miss it.

        • Your lack of faith in your fellow citizens is inspiring. Have you thought about running for office? With such cheerful outlook on the voters you should garner a whole o.5% of the vote.

          • Is that honestly the best you can do? To basically say cheer up and don’t be grumpy? Really?

            I try to base my opinions on facts wherever possible and while I don’t pretend to be free of bias, I am unwilling to engage in mud slinging based on emotions.

  17. All of this is a result of 40 years of monetarism , everything has been commoditised and sold on the markets. This was OK when wealth did trickle down but these streams have dried up or more likely diverted in to corporate pockets. Its not Europe’s fault, the sensibly devised a political system that ensured coalitions programmatically took decisions free from ideology based on long term plans. We on the other hand only consider short term gains and need foreign expertise to make our manufacturing industries work because we have abandoned manufacturing as a career for professionals due to constant contraction and cost cutting to try and remain competitive. Its a huge mistake that the only national debate about the future we have is about Europe not internally.

    Out of Europe our future is a low tax, low social provision, low wage, low rights economy which is exactly what the Tory hard right wants are furious it took so long to get here.

    • I agree with everything you said because the debate does need to be on how those with privilege have ensured they maintain in fact have increased their share of the cake. The debate about equality is great for them because it is only focusing on gender and not ensuring that those from the lower order get a chance to better themselves through education and of course in representation in parliament. The number of public school educated MPs has actually increased and that is not a matter of left or right but a sad fact.
      However, I am more optimistic about the future because without the comfort blanket of blaming the EU any politician advocating a race to the bottom in wages etc will never be elected, nor in fact will someone suggesting uncontrolled immigration is somehow a good thing. Those ideas belong to internationalists, globalists and those other assorted halfwits who believe we live in some kind of world village. In their view ordinary people should just suck it up because their view of the world doesn’t matter. Step forward Mr T Blair as a prime example.


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