Argentina intends to purchase 12 JF-17A Block III fighters from Pakistan according to a draft budget presented to the nations congress.
CORRECTION: THIS APPEARS TO BE INCORRECT. IT HAS BEEN DENIED BY ARGENTINA.
Argentinian statement w.r.t the JF-17:
"Likewise, this ministry clarifies that it has not been issued regarding the purchase of supersonic aircraft of any origin and is in the technical-economic and financial evaluation stage of five alternatives."https://t.co/AR369OGOF2— Saurav Jha (@SJha1618) September 22, 2021
Open Source Intelligence account @PSFAERO uncovered the news earlier today. He tweeted the following:
“ARGENTINA SELECTS PAKISTAN’S THUNDER JET – The Government of Argentina has officially included $664 Million in funding for the purchase of 12 PAC JF-17A Block III fighters from Pakistan in a draft budget for 2022 presented to its Parliament.”
The Argentine Air Force has thus chosen Pakistan’s JF-17 Thunder, discarding offers from Russia, USA and India.
The 12 JF-17s will include 10 single seater Block IIIs and 2 dual seat Block IIIs.
The PAC JF-17A Block III is a supersonic, multirole 4+ generation fighter aircraft pic.twitter.com/94P2rLD3tN— AEROSINT Division PSF (@PSFAERO) September 17, 2021
The two nations have had friendly relations for a while, Argentina has been part of the consensus in favor of the resolution put forward by Pakistan on the right to self-determination which is debated annually at the General Assembly of the United Nations.
Pakistan has voted in favor of the UN Resolution stipulating that “the continued existence of colonialism is incompatible with the ideal of universal peace held by the United Nations”, which has relevance for the Falklands Islands issue. The chair of the Pakistan Senate has said of the relationship that “Pakistan and Argentina have very close cooperation in various fields and unanimity of views on international issues”.
What is the JF-17?
The JF-17 Thunder is a single-engine multi-role combat aircraft developed jointly by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation of China. The builders say that the JF-17 can be used for multiple roles, including interception, ground attack, anti-ship, and aerial reconnaissance.
58% of the JF-17 airframe, including its front fuselage, wings, and vertical stabiliser, is produced in Pakistan, whereas 42% is produced in China, with the final assembly taking place in Pakistan.
You can read more about the jet here.
Didn’t Argentina try and buy new jets recently?
Yes, the nation has attempted to buy jets a number of time from various places witht he deals being stopped due to lack of funds or British objections. Most recently last year, Britain blocked the sale of South Korean fighter jets to Argentina.
The Argentine Defence Minister described the move as British “imperial pride” before posting “Malvinas Argentinas” on Twitter.
You can read more about that here.
Only 12?
The minimum amount to allow for training and maintain QRA.
To have 4 Airworthy all the time they will need to buy 40 of these pieces of junk. Ok maybe not, I don’t know much about them, I can’t trust Pakistani reports because like INDIA and China they bend the truth ever so slightly…
The JF-17 is not junk, it is a modern and perfectly credible light fighter.
Firstly why do you assume I am Pakistani? It is perfectly possible to be well informed about the JF-17 without being from Pakistan.
You were the one who stated these aircraft to be I quote “Junk”. The caveat that you are ignorant about them doesn’t change that.
The JF is actually the Mig 21 in new clothing
No not really, it is a new design but with a design lineage going back to the Super-7 variant of the J-7.
And the J7 is the licensed built version of what Russian Aircraft..
I dont think your Pakistani, I was referring to how Pakistanis act when talking about Pakistani millitary stuff, they think it’s the best ever.
And after I said “junk” i said “ok maybe not” that cancelled out my junk statement.
Fedaykin is from the book Dune, (Which I read as a teen) fantastic story and currently waiting for the new film to come out.
Regardless of that, not a match for anything currently stationed on or near The Falklands.
You don’t know abc about planes
its made from tin foil and sheep hides and its Avionics are borrowed from Russian and french sources. light is the word as it will have little in the way of ordinance. IMPERIAL PRIDE, yes when a country cannot feed itself. yet buys fast jets,
It can sink any air craft carrier which may be refuelled by South American neighbours.
It would last precisely 0.5 seconds vs an F35B in combat. And about the same time on its approach to a tyoe 45 destroyer guarding one of our carriers. So no I dont think 12 jets can sink any aircraft carrier.
Ha ha ha hilarious! The number of trolls on this story is amusing.
JF17 is the backbone fighter of PAF developed from scratch when US blocked defense purchases for Pakistan. It is proven in dogfight with Indian Air Force on 27th Feb 2020 IMPERIAL PRIDE has doomed in Afghanistan.
India kicks your arse every time, another one story troll, very boring.
So why use a number of avatars? Troll behaviour, sad but true! The world has changed, sure, sad people now troll others either due to their own sad lives or a few sheckles and a bucket of potatoes!
You think the JF17 was developed 100% by Pakistan? lol, pakistan can barely design a working Sink or toilet.
Oh ouch it really hurts when a Muslim country is building and selling fighter jets. I can understand your frustation
Why mention Muslim troll? Who cares?
Its not troll its reality. I can see you and others are feeling the pinch which is understandable. The world is changing
Sorry Ali, but can you please name one world leading invention by a Muslim nation? Or anything atall? honestly Ali I’m not taking the piss I want to know. And the west is not intimidated by any Muslim nation
Hmm but UK has setup Hawk production in Saudi and if Saudi orders more Typhoons they’ll probably be built their so your comment makes no sense.
No one cares what a Muslim nation builds,no let’s be honest they can’t do anything without western help. If they can, name one thing please? And not some bullshit mathematics either.l.
Ha 😀 love it (tin foil).
No issue – Pakis may offer a KAMIKAZE in the tinfoil. What will they do, then????????
It is is not built out of tin foil and sheep hides…sigh. It has a fairly conventional fuselage built with Aircraft grade aluminium, composites and steel for hot sections. The engine is Russian albeit there is now a domestic Chinese option yet to be taken up by any customer. On that engine the PAF decided to retain the Russian powerplant as their logistics chain is now built around and it wasn’t worth the change. There is no Russian or French avionics inside it, the avionics suite is 100% Chinese in origin (this has been well reported). It has a very… Read more »
To be proud of CHINESE avionics ect is really embarrassing… it’s not a good thing mate.
Where did I declare that I was ‘Proud’ of Chinese avionics. I can’t help it if you are ignorant on the subject.
He was flying a Mig 21 at the time !
An upgraded Mig-21 (bison), which was as good as F-16’s earlier blocks.
So JF17 is not allowed to shoot down MiG21? What about Su30 which was shot down in illegaly indian occupied Kashmir. Which india has always denied it to avoid further embarrasment. I can understand yout frustation and jealousy that a Muslim country is selling fighter jets and nucler armed.
Didnt they find parts from an AIM -20 missile ….which can only be fired by the F16 in the Pakistani airforce ??
THEY actually find parts of AmRam Misslies and alledged it came from pakistan F16. The problem is those parts are available everywhere as F16 has been sold around the world. Indian claims cant be trusted as they also claim shooting down an F16 from a MIG21 which is utter nonsense. According to lock heed martin the manufacturer of F16 pakistan hasnt lost any F16. Then they came up with another crap of a video showing a downed F16. The casing was of GE Engine surprisingly all the pakistan Airforce F16 has whitney and pratt engines. Will india ever confirm with… Read more »
if you wanna is it piece of junk then you should ask it from INDIA what happened 26 February 2019. If they start to curse PAKISTAN and start to abuse Pakistan. Then you will know is it a piece of crap or a heavy duty item. 😉
Similar comments yet different avatars, is that the best the Pakistan trolls can come up with mmmm you must make more of an effort.
Right you don’t know much about the aircraft and calling them pieces of junk ?
Look Capro, the JF17 is junk. Always will be.
I think u have to do ur own production maybe u can make more smoothly and arrange full
My country already does do its own PRODUCTION mate…
To begin with yes. Argentina have said that they want to licence build the aircraft. They have an aspiration of 40 single seat and 8 two seat trainer/light attack aircraft.
Whether they actually have the money to pay for this is questionable. However, they Foreign minister trade talks they had with the Chinese, will probably try to offset this with food exports and fishing licences.
Fishing licenses in the Falklands territorial waters no doubt. Can imagine the Chinese trying that.
first time in decades that argentina is investing in its armed forces
Decades to soon.
12 can hold and guide to earth 120
Ha ha haaaaaa sad troll.
Yes, only 12 in the first round. 10 are single seater and 2 are twin seater B varient. They will need to setup the infrastructure to manage these birds. I read in Chinese and Pakistani defense journals there have asked for an option for an additional 8 jets at the same price. My guess is there can be a continuation of this contract within 3 to 4 year. With Argentina ending with 20+ of these birds.
Do all you newbies ‘commenting’ on JF17 understand everyone on here is laughing at you ? It’s a piece of crap. It might good enough for Pak but in the big boys league it’s a piece of crap.
Finally someone who doesn’t want to bum pakistan. Pakistan can’t build anything that’s at the top table… seriously what does Pakistan build that’s among the best? Apart from terrorists. Do they invent anything decent? Have they?
Alongside the Mig-29 the JF-17 was really the only game in town that wasn’t hampered by the issue of UK content.
The JF 17 is fitted with the Martin-Baker Mk-16LE zero zero ejection seat
JF-17 is offered with two ejection seat options the Martin Baker PK16LE a derivative of the MK16 is one. The other is the domestically produced AVIC TY-5B zero zero ejection seat. The JF-17 prototypes and early examples delivered to Pakistan were fitted with the TY-5B and the examples exported to Myanmar.
Yes the J17 does come with 2 ejector seats, but the ones the Pakistani build all come with the MB, in contrast the Chinese built ones can be fitted with their own EJ, the article states that Pakistan is going to supply Argentina.
Doesn’t mean the jet can’t be supplied with the AVIC seat if that enables the sale, Pakistan did operate the JF-17 with the Chinese seat prior to adoption of the PK16LE. It would be absurd for them to not offer it as an option on Pakistan built examples.
Did is the optimum word, they replaced the Chinese one with the MB one.
For their own domestic use, again the JF-17 is offered with two seat options and it would be ABSURD for Pakistan to prevent a potential sale because the AVIC seat is requested by the customer.
won’t need an injection seat, Never get off the ground UK will cut its Aid to Pakistan.
if they supply Arms to the Tinnies
Pakistan is not dependent on any aid from UK.
The UK gives Pakistan hundreds of millions, to help its homeless starving children…same with India.
Uk has lost its influence on Pakistan.if they block aid they will lose military assistance in the region. Uk has a lot more to lose there mate. No wonder they all were begging pakistan to help in Afghanistan. Last week Dominic Raab visited pakistan and litterally beg pakistan to get their citizens out of Pakistan. No wonder Pakistan is out of red list.
Ali and Capri different avatar same troll as same spelling errors and comment style! So easy to spot a sad troll.
I can understand your frustation but that is how it is now. The world is changing different people will be ruling unlike current ones. So get use to it
Yaaaaawn, sorry did you reply, your not even very good at trolling, please you must make more of an effort.
I am not good at trolling yes you are right. I am not troling just talking facts. May be you dont want to know the facts. Like a pigeon who closes his eyes than assume no one is watching him.
WTF was that’s analogy supposed to mean ha ha a ha ha! When trolling on different avatars maybe try to change your spelling errors and style. Very sad.
You are acting like a penguin now
Wow the bot troll is now struggling!
Unlike India Pakistan don’t rely on aid and I don’t think Uk will ever dare to do that and Uk knows why 😉
Why? Pakistan is a shithole of a country..everyone knows that, it’s the starving homeless children I feel sorry for… Pakistan has millions… shame on you..
Even that ultimate peace lover Ghandi wanted the nonces to fuck off out of India and create their own shit hole to wallow in!
Yep exactly lol
I’m surprised China hasn’t offered them large subsidies and military aid in return for beef exports.
Although I don’t think Argentina have any interest in beefing up their military after decades of military dictatorship. But it should be noted China could supply them with credible resources to retake the Fakwlands in the not to distant future if it wanted to.
They have sought of. The Chinese now have or are in the process of getting fishing licences from Argentina. Beef will also be another major export along with crops. I think it was last month that their Foreign Ministers had a meeting to discuss trade. I guess this was part of the deal. I’d expect Argentina to announce they are acquiring other Chinese military equipment in the very near future, probably a couple of corvettes. In the past Argentina have reneged on pretty much every loan repayment. Thus most Countries wouldn’t lend them money. I’m not sure its wise to… Read more »
The Chinese tend to accept land reparations for failed payments let’s hope they don’t include the Falklands
I think that is correct and why not
Please see the results of 10 years of training and supplying of top-rated kit to the Afghan Fighting Force. China could supply all the weapons Argentina wanted.
but their Army is now one of the worse trained in the world. and would more likely rob their local supermarket than go to war.
Argentina has sold China huge areas for food production . As for Argentina taking (Not retaking) the Islands, the Islands are in a much better position now than they were in 1982.In 1982, Argentina had a powerful and well equipped military and they lost big time, today that isn’t the case, yes they could carry out pin prick attacks, but a major invasion I doubt it.
You would be surprised how much they could do.
No no-one would be surprised. Except you !
no, we wouldn’t, chucking bombs out of 737 won’t work this time. as they have no Air Transport, and Navy is errrrrrrr Sunk in the Harbour
No South American country will refuel British warships. Without that Malvives is sunk.
We dont need refuelling by any South American country. The Royal Navy has the Royal fleet auxillary for that purpose. Wave class, Tide class RFA can easily support a carrier task group should Argentina even with Chinese invokvement attempt anything against the British overseas territory of The Falkland Islands.
Troll time on this story, same troll, different avatars, sad.
Britain also had other islands in the Atlantic, accension is a key island.
Hercules ramp down bombs gone 82 !!!! Ramp down political prisoners gone prior to 82
Ouch harsh but true.
Can’t beat around the Bush
Nope, no we wouldn’t. They are currently in the worst state they have ever been and are incapable of any sort of offensive military action.
The British built a huge new base on the Falklands after the war, new airbase, new anti air missile stationed…The garrison n the Falklands alone could protect an Argentinian invasion.
I think the operation of 2 QE class carriers, astute class subs, type 45 destroyers would prevent any Falklands invasion. Argentina would have to massively expand their military with 1st world order kit to succeed. Such an expansion would be obvious and offset by an increased defence posture on the islands. I think the best the Argentinians could attempt would be some sort of spoiling event or to temporarily capture some of the islands to increase public support back in Argentina or to get international allies to aid them with direct military support against the “colonial power” which is all… Read more »
The Garrison on the Falklands is more than enough to protect the Region.
Curious to hear the US made an offer? That seems…strange.
Might be prudent to consider moving more Typhoons to the Falklands? That’s super etendards and now JF-17s that Argentina have acquired
Last I checked their Super Etendards had been retired and 12 JF-17s aren’t a real threat to the jets and Air defence already on the islands.
Also the Argentine navy doesn’t really have the capability to deploy forces en mass to the Falkland islands or really anywhere anymore.
This is a great video on the topic, even though it’s a bit out of date.
They received replacement Super Etendards from France two to three years ago
At least according to Wiki they are no longer in service, but it’s interesting to know 🙂
I’d be curious to see what the actual answer is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Air_Force#Current_Inventory
I suppose we should always expect they are still flying.
The Super Etendards are Navy not Air Force aircraft but they are currently listed as non-operational. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Naval_Aviation#Naval_aircraft_inventory
They couldn’t get spares to recommission the Martin Baker ejection seats fitted to those Super Etendard.
they received OLD retired S Es retired from the Navy, plan was to upgrade their fleets using there’s and the retired french. put parts dont carry over, even the newer engines dont fit.
Also curious as to what exactly the US was offering or intended to offer?
Certainly wouldnt have gone down too well in the ‘special’ relationship.
US priority is to stifle China everywhere.
True, US priorities overrule everything else I suppose.
They offered 8.5 f16 front canopy’s, 7 wings, 9 half built engines, and 13 wheels.
A huge upgrade for Argentina.
Lol, did Argentina accept the deal initially!?
They wanted 16 wheels not 13 and an extra two wings but usa wouldn’t budge so they pulled out! On the bright side Argentina just bought 3 Cessna wings and 2 Cessna air frames for £79.50 and are hoping to get the Air Force back up and running once they find another wing on eBay! They spent their whole budget so they now have to crowd fund for a new Jerry can as the other one got ran over! But once crowd fundings sorted they can steal fuel from passenger planes again to refuel the Airforce and sell to feed… Read more »
The US were offering F16s, in the hope that they wouldn’t turn to the Russians or Chinese. Umm….
Maybe better they have F16s ….Then if the Argentinians start sabre rattling again the U.S can withold parts etc ……grounded . Cant do that with the JF-17??
Super Es are ex-French retired Airframes, with lower hours than their own, they were going to cannibalize the fleet to put airframes in the air. but the lack of spares and mismatched parts. Supa Es was good 40 years ago. But won’t get near a Typhoon and as soon as they take off, would be watched. and fire what
I think the yanks offered 6 main f16 fuselages minus 5 wings and 7 half built engines to Argentina, and that was an upgrade to what they currently have, so it was really nice of the yanks and a fair offer.
Before anyone starts saying “what about the Martin Baker Ejection Seat”. The JF-17 is offered with a Chinese domestically built AVIC TY-5B zero-zero ejection seat. The AVIC seat is fitted to CAC built jets and the FC-1/JF-17 prototypes including those delivered to Pakistan were fitted with that seat. Pakistan switched to the MB PK16 after the type was adopted for service. In operation and design it is very similar to a Martin Baker MK10 and AVIC have admitted its design benefitted from technology transfer in the 80’s from Martin Baker.
They pinched it in less polite terms.
No actually in this case probably not pinched, there was significant tech transfer with China in the 80s and Martin Baker played a part in that exercise. It is for the same reason that China produces a RR Spey derivative in the form of the WS-9
How’s China not embarrassed with all the blatant Copy anc pasting of everything!, from knock of Blackhawks and Land rovers and RR to Apple phones. Just look at a chinese millitary parade with rip off guns, cloths, humvees and MAN trucks! And Anything they build not to western standards sucks. Granted they are getting better but they still copy most things, how don’t they get embarrassed and lose face, any other nation would. China is a joke of a country. Why we put up with their shit is beyond me. look at wuhan lab, they partnered with the French but… Read more »
I wouldn’t say everything they don’t copy is junk. They don’t just reverse engineer.
They stole TB of data on the F35 and were even dialled into conference calls between partner companies during its development. They essentially closed the gap and in places overtaken us (the west) on 50 years worth of RnD. Sadly money has trumped common sense and we pretty much handed over IP to get a position in country, too afraid to loose a piece of pie and only now are we waking up to what this is costing us.
Really, China has over taken the west in stealth tech?, also I heard indians who have flew along side china’s “stealth jets” like j20 they say that they aren’t so stealthy. And Experts point out glaring faults with Chinese stealth jets like the j20, the canards suposedly would cancel out any stealth it thought it had! And China can’t build a good jet engine apparently never mind a next gen modern one, they still build Russian knock offs… Money talks sadly even if it’s corrupt Chinese money. And the west really needs to stop selling so many big businesses and… Read more »
It’s certainly true that canards are a terrible device on a stealthy aircraft indeed Typhoon pilots have strict instructions on their settings when in high risk environments to reduce their radar signature. Also true that China is having serious problems with engine development which has so far reportedly stopped the J20 reaching its design performance and left them desperately trying to get hold of superior Russian engines though Russia, despite their public pronouncements of friendship and cooperation is understandably reluctant to supply them.
what would China be like without western tech…
There’d be in their Paddy fields without Wellington boots
I was using the F35 as an example of how China has hacked our IP. Parts of the F117 downed iby Serbia ended up in China, they took parts from the stealth helicopter used in the Bin Laden raid and probably had full access to the RQ170 drone that went down in Iran. There’s also suspicions that the Chinese helped bring it down. They are probably not ahead on stealth but their efforts go well beyond creating poor quality knockoffs. Areas like hypersonics the the US admits its falling behind China and Russia. The point is, don’t underestimate them. I… Read more »
They have very different cultural attitudes to intellectual property rights in China. They also have a strong “let’s not reinvent the wheel” attitude to technology and their defence needs. Also technology that at face value looks to be a slavish copy will often be very different under the skin, their defence electronics sector is in particular capable of cutting edge R&D.
Copying? The Americans copied the Russians
& the Russians copied us.
The Labour government of 1945 gave Stalin a Rolls Royce jet engine the Rosenbergs gave Stalin secrets for the Bomb
The first rule of communism “If at first you don’t succeed Cheat ‘ and thats true with both China and the then Soviets ie the AK 47 copied from Germany as was the RPG China is only good at copying without Licence
AK-47 copied from Germany Tommo, in what way??
I heard that, and if m right they did look a bit similar too.
In Chinese Culture copying an established Master is a source of pride. The better/closer you copy him the better you are.
My Dad worked for Martin Baker for at least 35 years. He came home one day with a sequence of photos of an American pilot ejecting from a carrier. He was proud that his work had saved so many lives.
Well, this has been on the cards. Its been obvious for a while that China has been itching to engage in sub-threshold warfare over the Falklands…
Well if the UK wants to help Australia acquire/operate nuclear subs then we should expect retaliatory measures.
!!!
Theres not a huge difference in weapons comparing conventional and nuclaer atack Submarines so why would the Chinese be that bothered, But Does the Ozzie Collins class hold tomahawks? Their new nuclear atacks will so that should annoy China. And I think the Ozzies should go for VLS on their new subs.
China would sell its grandmother to anyone if it was making money to mate, not everything’s got sinister motives.
As GB and Deep32 would attest, the main issue is range and speed. An AIP boat will need to run diesels every now, so it will need to snorkel and slow down near the surface. Whereas a nuke will stay at depth and just plough on at cruise speed. That’s the main difference between the boats. Although an AIP can be quieter than a nuke it doesn’t have the same patrol range. Which is why the Chises are unhappy. By having a nuke boat the RAN can sail easily within the disputed SCS. Yep, the Australian PM announced the subs… Read more »
Read a Comparison yesterday the differences are stark, the OZ diesel boats despite being state of the art for the type, would have had around a max 11 day mission endurance while a nuclear alternative can operate for around 77 days on station. Equally while the cost of the 12 non nuclear Barracudas had risen to $70 billion, the French were claiming 6 nuclear versions for theirselves were to come in at $10b. You can see why they jumped ship, 8 nuclear boats will be exponentially more effective than 12 non nuclear as things stand while with China’s long term… Read more »
As Daveyb alludes to above, the difference is speed, a SSN can leap 600+ nm in a day, a SSK can manage about 230ish, on the surface(not exactly stealthy), less if dived, even though they have a higher speed dived – they burn through the battery capacity quicker, having to come to PD to recharge the battery, which takes more time then the time to drain it. If you have long distances to transit before you reach your patrol area, a SSN wins every time, which is probably what your quoted figures reflect. If we had both SSNs and SSKs… Read more »
It’ll be interesting to see if the RAN opt for vertical launch tubes for their Tomahawks (as per the USN) or whether they go for torpedo-tube launch (as per RN).
Yeah it’ll be interesting. What other missiles can be fired from a Sub VLS? Long range Anti ship missiles ect? Anti balistic?
Also Is there torpedo launched Anti ship missiles? that Astutes could use?
Interesting indeed and as I refer to above there seems to be some pressure inside the US to abandon vertical launch tubes and concentrate new SSNs on torpedo tube launched weapons which seems strange to me as I would have presumed big advantages and flexibility from vertical launch. But I guess there are compromises too for a hunter killer as specialising in that role was expressed as a big part of the reasoning though little further enlightenment was given. Don’t know if that was the reason why VLS wasn’t included on Astutes the RN does like to specialise after all.… Read more »
Yes there is torpedo-launched anti-ship missiles, they are called “torpedos”
Yes Tony, but I’m on about an anti Ship MISSILE, with superior Range.
Superior range yes, but vulnerable to being shot down. Hard to shoot down a torpedo…..
There is the anti torpedo Torpedo, the yanks used to have them on their carriers, not sure if they still do. I Wonder if the RN has ever had anti torpedo Torpedoes.
There is the anti torpedo Torpedo, the yanks used to have them on their carriers, not sure if they still do. I Wonder if the RN has ever had anti torpedo Torpedoes.
If they go for VLTs the Chinese will cry SSBNs that should upset them
Interesting about the VLS I had tended to think we were short sighted in not including them on Astute like the US and French have done, seems to offer more flexibility and I had concerns that tube launched Tomahawks will be one obsolete and few new weapons become available to them in the future. I thought the logic and the future was clear. Then yesterday I read that as the US goes through the design process for it’s new attack subs to eventually replace the Virginia class boats, there is strong pressure to specialise as sub killers, dump the VLS… Read more »
Would love it if they (Australia) ordered 10 astute class. Which just happen to be the best nuclear attack subs in the world.
Astutes with VLS…Perfection ♥️
And maybe the RN could get an extra 1-3 Asute subs too…if it’s replacements are still a way off. Even plus a small fleet of 4 diesels for more regional ops.
Should never have sold the Upholders. But that boat has sailed.
I doubt that the deal was put together in 48 hours somehow. This is a long held Chinese policy and South America is the third wave after SE Asia and Africa in being put under Chinese economic hegemony. The Falklands no doubt will become a useful if tiny useful tool in achieving their aims of surrounding the US and Europe indeed, with pro Chinese sympathies even if they are effectively achieved through implied threats and economic and political reliance. Unlikely they would do anything overt with the Falklands mind as it could be an Achilles heel for them as it… Read more »
Apparently the Aussies brought it up with Adm Radakin when he was over there I think in March. UK and Oz approached US and it snowballed from there. The top level discussions were at G7 in Cornwall.
I want China to Arm Argentina!, then that Might help save the British Millitary. Just like how the falklnds saved a chunk of the British Fleet.
That’s akin to wanting Germany to rearm in the 1930’s in the hope the U.K. would abandon the Washington Treaty on warships 🤦♂️
It’s not so dumb, Argentina wouldn’t invade again even if it had the means, but the threat being there keeps the UK on her toes and helps keep our millitary a credible force down there and at home, but sadly much of that is eroding away now…
Exactly the first thing we did in 82 when Argentina raised the Flag in South Georgia was Boycott Corned Beef that would put them in their place 😳😀🤔😉🙄
What was the second thing?😆
Laughed at the Sun’s front cover “UP YER JUNTA ” then dallied around until April 4th when Maggie said to Sandy “Sail south Sandy” and the rest is History
The Second thing was laughed at the Sun headlines like “UP YER JUNTA” then got ready for the Cricket, season , Then on April 4th Maggie told Sandy to Sail South ,then Sandy told us to Sail South and the rest is History The Sun’s Headline Don’t Cry For Me Argentina didn’t get to read that until the first mail RAS
Chinese fishing fleets are having to fish further and further from home shores as they empty the sea with their industrial hoovering-up of all fish stock. The South Atlantic will definitely be a target for them, but Britain’s defence of the Falkland Islands waters could be an issue for them.
What about all the other huge areas of ocean, like south Georgia and our ant arctic territory…Pitcairn?
You’re a bit out of date, the Chinese fishing fleets are already operating off and in some cases poaching squid from Argentinian waters. The Argentinians sank a Chinese fishing boat that took actions risking collision between the vessels when it was failing to stop after being caught fishing illegally. Do a web search for Chinese fishing boats off Argentina and you will see them all lined up along the EEZ, going “dark”, etc.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-35815444
Well I predicted that years ago, but it’s no satisfaction to hear it’s already happening. The future will see increased competition for resources, partly due to population growth but predominantly due to climate-change, and the Chinese will be the most aggressive – including militarily. They aren’t building a blue water navy so they can hold impressive naval regattas.
The western allies need to be match fit and combat ready to face China in the 2030s. That is rhe forecasted time when China could develop enough military force locally to overmatch US and allies. The Chinese are adding the equivalent of the entire French or Royal Navy to their order of battle every 3-4 years. Our response….lethargic and reduced type 26 frigate order. Type 31 barely begun construction. Type 45 power issue still needing resolving. Type 45s not yet fitted with strike vls despite having space and top weight allowance for that arnament. Inadequate F35B order. Typhoon needing another… Read more »
I’ll take that bet, if you want to put the money up, that the U.K. DOES NOT gift Astute’s 6 & 7 to Australia. Your pessimism is ignoring the fact that the Australians are committed to building their submarines domestically and that they haven’t chosen a design yet. (Though my money would be on a revised Astute build, with an X-tail plane arrangement and the reactor from the Dreadnought class. Reactor built and shipped to Australia as a sealed unit. Possibly US combat systems added, etc.) As for the your fantasy military shopping list. The Defence Budget would need to… Read more »
The Chinese fishing fleet is global now.. there’s not a sea they aren’t industrialy fishing.
What China wants is food to feed its population.
And we really aren’t giving any real thought to the implications for us here. As a Country that can produce about half the food it needs one has to question where we will get out food from (at least at an affordable price) as vertically every producer will not only be feeding it’s own population but will have virtually all it exports acquired by China in deals we simply will not be able to match. Anyone wondering why China is lending all this money to and investing in all this infrastructure for poor and near bankrupt regimes only needs to… Read more »
Yes, an allotment is a good investment.
Yes Paul not even the Moat at the Tower of London was excempt from being turned into an allotment
Funny how India don’t seem to have the same issue, with about the same population!
India is self sufficient in food production. It is a fertile country with a and climate. Its down to basic geography.
http://www.fao.org/india/fao-in-india/india-at-a-glance/en/
I’m sure Xinjiang and Tibet might not be the most fertile land in the world (although they seem to be able to grow plenty of cotton in Xinjiang) but China is a pretty fertile country herself…
China is working hard and just about holding its own in terms of food security. It has 20% of the world’s population but only 7% of the world’s fertile land. Hence it’s aggressive fishing.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21551079/
Cotton doesn’t taste very nice
India’s food production is only half that of China. China mainly imports soybeans to feed their animal husbandry. China is completely self-sufficient in wheat, and rice can even be exported
Great choice, one of the best versatile vfm fighter jets around.
I’ll believe it when I see it. Every previous deal has fallen apart when it comes to “where are the $$$$$” Argentina doesn’t have any of those currently and inflation is running at about 32% per month. Nobody will lend Argentina any money as it has a delinquent credit rating. Stuff like this would not trouble Land Ceptor or Astor or the Typhoons so why get excited? Super Etendards may have been a worry in ’82 but they are decades out of date and easy meat for modern AAW systems. Argentina has close to zero navy compared to ’82. Nothing… Read more »
BUT IT’S FUN TO FREAK OUT ABOUT ARGENTINA!
Indeed this has no immediate concern, but if it is a sign at all then it might just be pointing to an eventual scenario of concern that would be a generation or so away before it is there to see.
Yes it is fun! But seriously, agreed with Supportive Bloke, the four Typhoons on the Falklands loaded with Meteors could probably see off all 12 JF-17s without breaking a sweat, they know it and we know it, so it’s really a non-issue.
Spot on.
That’s because I was there look at my email address
“Pakistan has voted in favor of the UN Resolution stipulating that “the continued
existence of colonialism is incompatible with the ideal of universal peace held by the United Nations””
And more hypocrisy again from Pakistan, with them retaining the Pashtun Homelands, which should be part of Afghanistan.
And of cause, Balochistan should be a nation in its own right!
Maybe sindh should another country too, punjab as well. There are more pushtuns in Pakistan than there are in Afghanistan, these tribes choose to be part of Pakistan, these tribes fought voluntarily for Pakistan in the wars following the partition, so with that said Afghanistan should be part of Pakistan, dont you think? As for Baluchistan, India, and soviets tried in the early days to fuel separatists elements, Soviets were taken care of, but india continues, kulbhshan yadhav, a serving indian officer was caught and admitted to terror financing, (india admitted he was an indian officer), then came the US,… Read more »
Outside states fuelling terror groups in Pakistan. What’s that feel like ? But if I were you I’d be more worried about Iran ! But don’t worry you won’t get anything you don’t deserve.
The real irony is Argentina was itself a colony the colonials sort their own future through independence. The Falklands were uninhabited unlike Argentina at the time the Spanish (and Welsh) started to settle there. UK position is the inhabitants have the right to choose.
Still think Argentina should of handed over their half of Patagonia as war reparations. That would have made them squeal!
What a grand idea, Maggie missed an opportunity! 🙂
And then handed patagonia over too the Chileans Maggie did miss a trick
Imagine the steaks we could have been tucking in to!
Indeed the same irony that the US always argued they were anti colonialist you couldn’t make it up. Not only are they the actual colonialists, the boots on the ground who’s main reason for seeking Independence was because the ‘colonial’ Govt was actually trying to stop or at least control the colonists preventing them from being as colonialist as they actually wanted to be in exploiting this great new continent opened up by the British army saving them from the French in the 12 years war that in North America the colonialists actually started and we’re then losing. Oh and… Read more »
Yes of course it would.
if china attacked, i was in usa in during the falklands war and there was little outright support for helping britain on the tv channels. usa was fighting communism in south america and not wanting to piss off argentine govt.
The US quietly provided assistance, the aviation fuel at Ascension Island was pumped from US Tankers offshore, not to mention stocks of AIM 9L Sidewinders for our SHARs. Reagan offered us an Iwo Jim class LPH in the event that either of our carriers were damaged, plus of course all the intelligence quietly fed…..just the tip of a large iceberg…..
Yes if China were exploiting it but no if it weren’t which leaves that grey area in the middle that could get murky.
Great is Col Oliver North still available
The PRC is a colonial power. Ask Tibet, the Uighurs, or all the nations being gazzumped in the SCS. Empire building is their goal, hence the belt & road program & massive military expansion. Argentina is a colonial construct too. Tried exterminating Patagonians in the late C19th. We’ve spent the last 70+ years giving back our long past empire to its own peoples. When’s the last time China restored sovereignty to anybody they ruled?
Article five doesn’t apply to the Falklands
If it was American it would.
No limit to hypocrisy, Pakistan itself only exists due to colonialism be it from pre British conquest creating the ground work to Britain controversially chopping it out of India. That’s why it’s claims in Kashmir are ridiculous it’s akin to Northern Ireland claiming bits of Eire. India may tolerate but never accepted the dissection of its land. As for Argentina it itself is just a colonial construct the people talking about colonialism and certainly those in control are themselves greatly the colonialists be they of Spanish or Italian origin. After independence these colonialists then expanded their empire into the south… Read more »
they must be referring to China :”the continued
existence of colonialism is incompatible with the ideal of universal peace held by the United Nations””
Talking nonsense, if you go by that criteria, the world should be completely reconstituted.
Ascension Island airbase is a joint American/British base. so would look the other way again.
And there was a Beer can Vending machine in the departure lounge or go up the crater bar
The issue Pakistan will face is as soon as this try to get agreed, UK Will cut all foreign aid to Pakistan, as they’re not going to give Aid Money to a country supplying Arms to a country on an embargo.
lols and how much aid Britian is giving us some million dollar. Your colonial mind set need to upgrade especially after living Afghanistan when your ministers were requesting support from Pakistan. This century belongs to Asia not any butcher anglo saxon nation. Most of the aid is for Afghan refugees and world food program.
Pakistan is part of BRI and we don’t care about whatever the west thinks. The geopolitics of the region are pretty much changed.
“Not any butcher Anglo Saxon national ” oh dear you do seem quite angry, rude and nationalistic. Calm the racist terminolgy down pal.
Of course Argentina is loved by Pakistanis hahahaha don’t talk nonsense
so, you know Pakistan better than on. We export 80 percent of the world handmade football and most of them goes to Latin America. You guys seems pro india and racists towards Pakistan. So, i don’t think i need to discuss with colonial minds.
Two more abusive, childish and offensive comments. Time fo flag you up fellah.
lols. i am not a western power who use to left when find some resistance. so stay calm i don’t care what you guys think, as most of you guys have very limited knowledge about today’s geopolitics. Some times i really enjoy the level of your know how.
You don’t care what we think, so much so you reply to our posts trying to justify your silliness and stupidity. Your still a sad racist, using silly out of date terminology which only uneducated, weak and boring people use. Grow up son.
Oh dear, silly angry boy.
Interesting how many newbie’s and trolls have flooded this thread in particular.
Actually dumbass, the uk has the third most Global influence after usa and China, the UK is a global power iNDIA and pakistan are regional powers, the uk is the second most influential soft power on earth after usa. The uk knows all about world affairs,
Auck I was enjoying him making a fool of himself.,
Tell you something David Shanghiia’s China Town isn’t worth visiting
Student from Zejiang can be found in Pakistan. And so called ex colonial power has several politicians from Pakistan. So, fuck and your hate towards muslim states. stay their in fools paradise.
You really are weak, rather than try to debate a point you throw the usual boring “racism” comment out there. Sorry son, doesn’t work as the only person throwing racist comments is you. Sad bell-end.
Your struggling aren’t you I can see that. Your the only one talking about Muslim states. Why does everyone hate your country ?
The Falklands is classed as an overseas territory where as Newyork and Washington mainland USA Nato
What about Scotland?
Argentina supports the idea of self determination ? Oh the irony. “Malvinas Argentinas” my little donkey 😂
That’s almost as bad as the anti fascists who are the actual fascists, or the “anti” racists telling white people they aren’t allowed into black only meetings and groups, that’s Racism lol
Why are we not taking a harder line on Pakistan. They obviously backed the Taliban, Bin Laden was found in a hide out in Pakistan’s secret service city and now this? Note to UK FO Pakistan is not our friend. Why are they still in the Commonwealth?
Why do we still give hundreds of millions in foreign aid yearly to Pakistan when they have their own space program and nuclear missiles.. you can see they have the right priority’s!. And a muslim/Islamist nation holding Nukes is scary, I’m sure USA/UK has an eye on Pakistan at all times.
US and Pakistan are relative enemies now the US won’t back them any more and they have become puppets to China. India As a result are while still friendly with Russia very much friendlier to the US and the West these days, this really is like an episode of soap. Pakistan I think is being kept ‘ close’ by Britain because in that old adage keep your friends close keep your enemies closer. I think we are just trying to keep them from totally going over to the dark side I don’t see it succeeding long term mind as that… Read more »
Your an optimist about UK and Pakistan. I’m inclined to think it’s because the F.O. are clueless.
Nah. The foreign office clueless? Come on…
Damn, that puts Argentina back in the game should they ever want to try a rematch over the Falklands.
Joke ?
No it doesn’t
I think their point is that even though great for the money (and even then who knows what weapons they will be sticking on them) realistically these things are no match for the small Typhoon squadron at Mount Pleasant, let alone if a single T45 wandered down. And not sure hows it’s a step towards a heavier fighter, I don’t imagine Argentina can even afford these let alone the next step!
The interesting thing here seems to assume weapons somehow win wars, if that is the only element then why did US, UK, NATO etc still lost in afghanistan after 20 years with all the advanced weapons and prior to that russia lost in the same land.
We didn’t lose the war we pulled out. And if it was a war where everything was in the table the taliban would have been destroyed along with most of Afghanistan, only thing is there’s a constant stream from pakistan.
Buying some second rate 4th generation fighters doesn’t put Argentine “back in the game” for the Falklands. You’re conveniently forgetting they’d need frigates, troop transports, landing craft, armoured vehicles, air-defences, etc etc etc.
And by far the most important thing that they don’t have, some big ass balls…
So bearing in mind the typhoon is far better they would still have us outgunned 12 to 1.
Patrol river class no problem
Also I bet they are good enough to avoid the air defences as we have ripped out rapier and the new system isn’t in yet???
Time to divert foreign aid to Pakistan to air defence of the Falklands I think. If China and Pakistan are serious about supporting Argentine’s military ambitions we have a problem looming I think.
Huh ! How’d they get there ? Canoe ? Balloon?
There are 4 Typhoons stationed on the Falklands, so it would be 3:1. Not to be cocky or arrogant but it would be hard to see how the JF17s would survive a Typhoon/Meteor combination at BVR….
Pl15 and pl21 I believe out range the meteor, fit this platform and are comparable in speed and quality according to US military
Not necessarily, MBDA are notorious for quoting the minimum guaranteed ranges of their weapons while China tends to quote the maximum theoretical range. Differing political motives there, the former playing it coy, the latter trying to intimidate.
Andy a full air intercept typhoon load out might be 4 to 8 medium range AA missiles and 4 to 8 more short range AA missiles plus a canon for dogfight. Typhoon is the worlds best dogfighter platform at close range. Typhoon wouldnt close to close range meteor/ Amraam kill from +30 miles away vs J17. So the 4 Eurofighters on falklands currently could wipe away these 12 jets with extreme ease
Really I believe china has missles that fit their own j17’s that have a 200-400km range. There missles are one area experts say they have excelled. We can no longer in the west assume technology will win out over numbers as in the past
What missiles can shoot down those Chinese ones? Do our jets carry any? Or is it just decoys for missile defence.
How are they getting the fuel for a 400km range on a small air to air missile?!
They are not small missiles like say our Asraam.
4.5 m long, 40ish cm wide and weigh in at some ,600kg, so not really small.
Range is dependent on flight profile of missile, and they are fitted with a booster motor to increase range. Nothing technically clever, just a big bit of kit.
Calm down, calm down! The PL15 is comparable to AMRAAM, whilst the PL21 is primarily designed for high value targets like an AWACS or tankers. To use these missiles first you must detect the target. As Argentina do not have an AEW type of aircraft. This means they must rely on the JF17’s radar or electronic surveillance measures (ESM). Unfortunately, the nose diameter of the JF17 is similar to the F16’s. This then dictates the diameter of the radar. The radar’s diameter is one of the factors that dictates the effective radiated power of the radar. Now compare the nose… Read more »
Comparable to amraam we hope, plus at least 30% longer range
Typhoon didn‘t have AESA radar but jf17 has. AESA radar has certain advantages over Doppler radar
The standard Captor-M radar has a distinct detection range advantage over the AESA radar fitted to the JF-17. It is purely down to the effective radiated power (ERP) and receiver sensitivity that a much larger antenna cross sectional area (CSA) gives you over a smaller one. The other factor is that both aircraft will have a radar cross section of around 1m3. So the person who can detect the other first will be determined by the radar detecting the other first. AESA does have significant advantages over an “old fashioned” Pulse Doppler radar, especially when it comes to low probability… Read more »
Chiba was all about numbers and screw the accuracy or effectiveness, now they have numbers and accuracy and effectiveness.. scary.
I agree Mr Bell 100%. In addition, our pilots are much better trained than their opponents.
They won’t outnumber the Typhoons 12-1. Even if they threw all 12 at the Falklands it would be 3-1. Even then it’s not much of a threat.
The only chance they would have is if our pilots felt particularly sporting and sent up a single Typhoon. Even then the JF-17s wouldn’t have much of a chance until the Typhoon runs out of missiles.
there are 4 typhoons @ the Falklands 2 on Alert. 2 others so pretty sure the Brillcream boys would have a Turkey and Shoot
The United Kingdom gives Pakistan foreign aid. Pakistan is not a friendly power and has not been for years. When Pakistan said it would recognise northern Cyprus, the first country to take this step, the internationally recognised legitimate government of unoccupied Cyprus said it would recognise Balochistan, a province of Pakistan that wishes for independence. The Pakistanis had second thoughts and withdrew.
Then what will happen?
This did happen. Northern Cyprus languishes. My point is one must see matters for what they are; we have been aiding a government in Pakistan that raised up and supports our enemies. I am also very sceptical about sending aid to many countries where the results never seem to match objectives, particularly when some of those objectives are focussed on women’s rights and education. Time to end this folly of ‘soft influence’.
If we send foreign aid it shouldn’t be money, but equipment thst we bought in the UK like jcbs and land rivers water pumps ect.
This will go down VERY badly with the UK. Expect to see the UK seek closer relations with India because of this.
Yes, you’re probably right about ‘woke’ ‘leftwing wonks’, and Pakistan has totally played us with its support for the Taliban in the last 20 years. But they might have gone too far this time. Maybe?
Nah,
The left are fully entrenched inside the U.K., I mean all the protests on the M25 this week started after that Judge cleared those XR protesters for blocking major roads and let them walk free.
We saw similar with how protesters who have smashed up subs, blocked runways, and huge plate glass windows have all walked free.
It is a religion of peace…..it just doesn’t work 😂
We already are
And this is why I don’t trust Pakistan and why the U.K. should cut all aid to the Islamist country,
Hopefully by the time that these are delivered (if they are) Sky Sabre should be up & running & Meteor on a Typhoon will outrange whatever is fitted to the JF-17.
We have a number of radar station that provide over watch, I know I helped build one.
We won’t ever station an E-7 so why not stick a TARS site at MPN ? Don’t think these are much threat unless Argentina get better AAR capability. I don’t know what the status is with the possible KC-390 from Brazil? if they get some of those then maybe!
We should base a couple p8s, or even buy half a dozen old yank Orions for down there.
In an ideal world. Like the fleet the Island just needs to be able to see further than the horizon to have better chance of defending itself. Crowsnest is a step but not as good as proper AEW due to altitude/endurance, maybe we should buy some old US Navy E2 for Mpn/Asi/Akt
Is rapier still there? Or were they based at the radar sites?
Its a Chinese plane tested by Pakistan
The JF17 is an interesting aircraft. It was designed to replace the Pakistani Air Force (PAF) Mirage III/5s and Chinese Mig 21 copies. It will also replace their F16s to some extent (at least the early Block aircraft), although they may be the first export customer for the Shenyang FC31 aircraft. The aircraft was designed in-house with help from both Russia and China. But, if you look at the aircraft carefully you will see a lot of F16 elements. Pakistan has an agreement with the US on how their F16s are used. They can’t be used offensively and are not… Read more »
Thank you Daveyb – a very interesting and insightful read. Would Typhoon’s DASS also play an important role in any engagement – esp within visual range agains