Babcock International and BAE Systems have been awarded a five year contract extension by the Ministry of Defence to continue in-service support to the Royal Navy’s 4.5 Mk8 Medium Calibre Gun (MCG).

The agreement is worth £43m and will see the continuation of in-service support to the 4.5 MCG across 19 Type 23 Frigates and Type 45 Destroyers as well as HMS Collingwood.

According to a news release from the firm:

“The continued collaboration between Babcock and BAE Systems, the Gun’s designer, offers the capacity, proven capabilities and infrastructure to safely and effectively run in-service support. Babcock has also opted to implement innovative Digital Twin technology to drive an increase in reliability and availability of the weapons system and work to extend its service life. The effort to increase efficiency will also see the roll out of BAE Systems’ design interventions.

The Digital Twin enables digital connection with the asset presenting near real time insight to the materiel state of the Gun. It combines Babcock proprietary data capture technology and data science capability, augmenting Babcock’s engineering pedigree in Naval Gun support. The technology provides the on-board maintainer with the information they need to optimise maintenance and provides Babcock the foresight needed to predict future faults and proactively intervene to keep the asset operational and increase availability.”

 Will Erith, CEO Babcock Marine said:

“The 4.5 MCG is a key weapons system on board the fleet, helping to keep personnel safe during operations. By creating a digital twin to better predict performance and define maintenance requirements, we are delivering real-world use of technology for our customer. It’s an exciting new era for the 4.5 MCG and with our proven track record, expertise and capability on this programme, it means we can effectively maintain asset availability for our customer. We look forward to continuing to deliver a first-class service package, in conjunction with BAE Systems, to the Royal Navy.”

The Mk8 MCG is a modern, semi-automatic variant and can rapidly fire high explosive rounds against land and sea targets with pinpoint accuracy, say Babcock.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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49 COMMENTS

  1. Umm, so we are getting the 5″ on the T26 but there seems to be no ambition to put it on the other platforms. I would have thought, in the long term, it is going to be cheaper to put the 5″ on all escorts?

    • No too sure what you mean by other escorts. Cant quite understand why the Type 31 isn’t being armed with the 5″, perhaps it political. And regards the Type 45, perhaps the PIP put paid to any such upgrade. That said its a 5 year extension to when? and the T45 OSD is the late ’30s. So, who knows.

      • Bah, who needs efficiency of training or logistics, afterall, the RN fought WW2 with about a dozen MCGs, 4”, 4.5”, multiple 4.7”, 5” US and UK, 5.5” and different 6”s.

        That upstart the USN managed with a 5” and 6”, but what do they know…

        • Or indeed to maintain guns on 19 escorts when there are 17 that will exist…..shortly….as the T23’s are phased out…..

          • But it’s ok we can go to 17 as they all now have a digital twin, so we will still actually have 34 of them.

      • Probably cost: if you add 5” to T31 it breaks the set price per ship.

        5” is significantly more expensive (and capable) than the 57mm likely to be fitted.

        All that said with the new ‘uparming’ & ‘modernisation’ agenda I’d be surprised if T31 enters service as specc’d.

        The T31 lineage is designed to take a 5”.

          • I found the below, which suggests if we include ammo, training and parts that one gun would come in at 55 million GBP. So if we got 5 for the Type 31 at about the same cost it would be equivalent to getting another Type 31.

            “The Government of India has requested to buy up to thirteen (13) MK 45 5 inch/62 caliber (MOD 4) naval guns and three thousand five hundred (3,500) D349 Projectile, 5”/54 MK 92 MOD 1 Ammunition. Also included are other ammunition, spare parts, personnel training and equipment training, publications and technical data, transportation, U.S. Government and contractor technical assistance and other related logistics support. The total estimated cost is $1.0210 billion.”

          • I wonder how the Otobreda 127/64 compares pricewise to the MK45,could it have been a better option ?.

          • At a guess the t31 is spec to export. Plus aren’t the 5 inch guns from bae and not babcock.

          • For constabulary duties the type 31 armed with 1x57mm gun and 2x 40mm guns plus I hope canister or VL antiship and hopefully land attack missiles. Norwegian anti ship missile or LRASM. Are fit for purpose the 57mm gun due to rate of fire can lay down an impressive weight of steel. Not effective for naval gunfire support but against fast attack craft, helicopters, UAV and light warships upto and including medium frigates it is effective.
            The 2 40mm mounts are very effective point defence systems and a useful back up for Sea Ceptor in air defence

          • Adding LRASM would really add some firepower to the ship, especially if it can be used as a land attack missile, too.

          • Do you really need a 57mm or even a 40mm gun for constabulary duties? I would have thought a GPMG and a handful of marines would do the job.

            The only thing that the t31 appears to be geared for is Iran and small boat swam attacks, but even then i am not sure you really need all 3 guns.

            Maybe defending landing crafts that need to operate close to shore.

            Hopefully we will never find out, but it would be interesting to know what the role would be, in the event of an actual war.

          • Depends on the constabulary duties, desperate men will need to know they are completely outgunned or they will inevitably be tempted to fight or flight. If your pirate has a couple of RPG and a squad support weapon they may just go for the fight when a few marines backed by a GPMG try to board. I’m sure they would get the job done, But the risk of a harm/death goes up. A big grey boat putting a few 40-57mm shells in front of said pirate boat means it’s less likely someone makes a bad decision.

            a constabulary vessel needs to be able To Find, catch and sink small civilian and commercial boats if needs be and cow the sort of groups who will happy gun down those they have advantage over.

          • To be fair if it’s just for constabulary duties a 57mm, couple of 40mm mounts, a pair of ribs and a rotor are more the adequate. That out guns any conceivable piracy, drug or terror threat as well as provides the ability to find, catch and board.

            if you want an escort for war fighting that different beans. I think the problem is the 31s as they are at present are neither fish nor fowl, the rivers are easy, they are constabulary vessels and no idiot with even half a brain would place them in harms way. The 31s have a medium gun, Self defence capability’s ect, it looks like a warship, but not really at present to the level you would want to bet a crews life on in a risky environment, but you know someone will do just that, it’s inevitable.

            At least what has been procured has the potential for significant improvements, If I was a betting man, I would lay some money on that happening, but the question is what will they spend the money on, ASW, soft kill, more AAW capabilities, land attack, AsuW or even something like the old leanders, with different capability in different ships. It will be interesting to see.

          • If I was a betting man, I would bet they don’t get upgraded, just like the t45 never got their strike tubes. Unless there is a real marine threat, successive govs will want to confirm fleshly new hardware but not spend the money on making then fully effective.

          • Constabulary duties is just a smokescreen for cuts to RN capability. With such few escorts we don’t have options & any escort needs to be able to stand toe to toe with any enemy escort. If we had 35+ then it might be theoretically possible to keep 2nd rate ships out of harms way, but it’s hogwash to expect T31s to be exempted from full-on duties with so few escort. Especially so when there’s carrier battle groups to be escorted. I think they must a have decent MC gun that hits a lot harder than the 57mm.

          • I got the impression that it is fitted out this way as we will you them in the littoral sphere in the Persian Gulf etc.

        • T31 will get 57mm and 40mm – already ordered. Naval guns are not really battle winning weapons these days, nor have they been for about 90 years. However dream on.

          • Respectfully I don’t think anyone is thinking that a surface to surface gunnery engagement is ‘a thing’.

            However, NGS and the emerging ASW functions for a main gun are ‘a thing’.

            I don’t think 57mm -> 5” is very likely but I do think that other areas of up arming are highly likely.

          • Yes agreed, although the US FFX are also using 57mm, and the French 76mm. Rapid-fire smaller calibre weapons maybe more useful for the general purpose role, as they are better at countering fast small boats and have utility in CIWS -especially counter-drone and policing roles. They also have a wide range of ammuntion these days. I can imagine small loitering drones and even rail guns giving the 5″ a run for its money in the NGS role longer term.

          • “nor have they been for about 90 years.”

            The Falklands war taught us that medium guns were essential for escorts & as a result we stopped designing escorts(or conversions) that had none. It may be 40 years later, but I think we throw away the ability to use cheaper MC shells for both anti-surface & NGS very foolishly. Especially when out army’s artilliary is rather outdated.

        • It appears we will be getting these instead.

          BAE Secures Bofors Naval Guns Order For UK Type 31 Frigate Program
          “The contract includes five Bofors 57 Mk3 medium caliber guns and 10 Bofors 40 Mk4 small caliber guns. Both close-in weapon systems are designed to protect the ships against modern and future complex threats. The guns also offer the Royal Navy optimized ammunition types, including the cost-efficient programmable Bofors 3P all-target munition.”

          https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/10/bae-secures-bofors-naval-guns-order-for-uk-type-31-frigate-program/

      • My thoughts would be as T23 is withdrawn, a weapon transfer will take place to newer ships. I understand the Phalanx is already a “hand me down system” installed on the new carriers. Makes financial sense.

      • That does look interesting. Would prefer an Ikara type system of a homing torpedo delivered to area of submarine by missile. The newest heavyweight torpedoes carried by attack submarines are lethal and out range any ship launched torpedo currently. Hence why delivering ASW via helicopter is a good stand off solution.

    • meh we are British after all. we must abide by the gentleman’s code of war and show fair play to all our opponents.

      • I’m not sure that’s true at all, small islands with a few 10s millions of population do not end up ruling the largest empire the world has ever known by playing fair. The British have always above everything been pragmatic and done whatever worked best. We may at our best have been able to use enlighten self interest, but you don’t ended up owning a quarter of the globe by being fair. When it worked for us we were utter bastards, when being the voice of reason worked we were good at that as well.

        The NHS is a perfect example of British pragmatic thinking. you can’t get a more communist idea that a national health system free at the point of delivery. But we as the the supreme advocates of capitalism and the market realised It’s also the most cost effective way to keep you population healthy by a long shot ( check out market let health systems, rubbish population health and expensive) and a nation needs a healthy population to be economically competitive as well as fight wars ( hint, every single major improvement in public health has tended to come after a big old war).

        Slavery is another example, we realised our bonded working classes all dropped dead in sugar plantations so we held our noses and started working the transatlantic slave trade like no other nation….We started to feel a bit bad about it and band slavery in this country very early on, but kept up slavery in our plantations until the Jamaican slave revolts about 70 years later and it became to costly in lives, pragmatic to the core.

    • It would’ve been great if the fleet could be standardised on the 5” but sadly know. That said, I understand cost comes into this and the resources could be better used elsewhere.

      • The 5inch gun system has to be built into a ships design. It requires significant below deck modifications for ammunition silos, handling and carriage/ storage systems. Once its carousel of 20+ ready rounds are used up its rate of fire does drop vs a 57mm gun with rapid and easy reload. 5inch gun does however have a range advantage. The chinese navy are interesting as they have gone midway between and opted for a knocked off French 1980s and 1990s 100mm naval gun design for most of their frigates and corvettes. These 100mm guns are accurate, relatively long ranged but I dont know about FAC or helicopter/ UAV effectiveness. As usual China reversed engineered the design and then built in large numbers. I would think the best solution for a main frigate gun would be a weapon in the 90-105mm class. A navalised and improved light field gun with enhanced accuracy and rate of fire?

        • Mk 8 4.5 gun is based loosely on the 105mm Abbot SPG. with a greater calibre.
          4.5 is the minimum you need to put lare enough rounds on target at range. Its always a balance between bigger shells, longer range and slower rate of fire Vs Smaller Calibre, shorter range faster rate of fire.

        • Is this the gun fitted to their Type 55?

          “The People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN’s) lead Type 055 (Renhai)-class destroyer, Nanchang (pennant number 101), has for the first time joined the escort group for the aircraft carrier Liaoning and, according to Japan’s Ministry of Defense, deployed into the Pacific Ocean east of Taiwan on 3 April.”

          https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/type-055-destroyer-joins-pla-navy-carrier-group-for-first-time-in-deployment-east-of-taiwan

          • The destroyer being part of a larger task group is I think a more profound ” front page news” item, especially as they sailed between Okinawa and Taiwan, then into the Pacific for a training exercise. The task group included the carrier Laioning plus a Type 052D destroyer, a Type 054A frigate and a Type 901 supply ship. The ships were shadowed by PLAAF Y9 maritime patrol aircraft, along with a pair of H6 bombers. The carrier also carried a number of J15 aircraft.

            This exercise shows that China are serious at up their game when it comes to Naval matters, from a purely littoral fleet to a true blue water navy. By sailing around Taiwan whilst carrying out carrier exercise, gives a very strong message, especially to the Taiwanese.

          • Yes, I believe we can expect to see a land grab from China before the end of this decade as we witness similar tactics here in Europe by Russia.

            The US has already stated that it would be impossible to manage wars on both fronts at the same time and intends to concentrate its efforts to deter China from future aggression.

            Technically, we are more advanced, but numbers count in a shooting war and they clearly have the numbers!

            “The current head of the command, Adm. Philip Davidson, told a hearing earlier this month that China could be prepared to take Taiwan, the self-governed democratic island that Beijing claims as its sovereign territory, by force within the next six years.”

            https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/24/asia/indo-pacific-commander-aquilino-hearing-taiwan-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

      • Standardisation has many benefits which should recomend it to the bean counters. I’d hope 76mm (OTO) would be the minimum considered & something between 4-6″ ideal. Standardising on the BAE 5″ would be sensible. Unproven new technologies are a risk.

    • There is no real point, considering the OSD for Type-23 and Type-45 it is easier to keep the 4.5″ going on them until they retire.

      As for Type-31, there is some argument for the 5″ as a nice to have but as others have pointed out it would bust the budget for the programme and there is also a good argument that the 57mm is a good fit for that class in its intended role.

  3. Concerning the 5″ on the T26 or T31.

    There was a v interesting slide on Twitter the other day, possibly leaked, on future make up of the 2 LS groups. UKDJ has seen it but no article as yet.

    Both have an escort in attendance, possibly T31 in time.

    Considering much of that slide talked of increased firepower planned for FCF you’d have thought for the LSS role the FCF could do with that gun for NGS when they mount their operations inland. Instead it will be on the T26 which will no doubt spend most if it’s time elsewhere.

    What exactly supports the FCF in these roles was not made clear. Lots if photos but no extra details beyond the initial basic ORBAT of the force.

    What am I missing? Seems logical to me to put it on T31 instead of T26.

    • I think Type 32 will be optimised to support the LSGs – although Type 31 might fill in for a year or two its real role is to take up the overseas stations from the B2 OPVs (which will return to UK waters and allow the B1 Rivers to be paid off). So expect the T31s to be stationed at Gib, Singapore, Bahrein and maybe India, with the B2s in UK, Falklands and Carribean while the T26s work with the CSGs and the T32s with the LSGs with littoral roles including AAW, MCM, ASW and NGS.

      • I think that’s a pretty good and accurate prediction of the future purpose and deployment of the new vessels. 👍🏻

  4. Maintenance overview.

    The RN uses Unit Maintenance Management System (UMMS) a reliability centered maintenance system (RCMS). The days of the old Maintenance Management System (MMS) where you found yourself dismantling equipment , checking it, reassembling it and then making it work again ( Or not making it work, having reassembled it incorrectly or broken a bit off of it!) are long gone.

    UMMS data is inputted into the onboard data base by maintainers whenever a computer scheduled work item is completed. This database uploads onboard changes back to Abbey Wood (Usually Daily) to allow Abbey Wood to see if equipment is being maintained and that all Safety Related and Mandatory maintenance remains in date. If Safety Maintenance is going to go out of date you need to concess the maintenance item with a reason why and get a buy in from the Risk Management Team as to why you cannot do it. ( Haddon-Cave rears its head!)

    The Babcock system appears to be an outgrowth from this RCM system of working. So for something like the Mk 8 Gun the Built in Test Equipment( BiTE) and monitoring software will log things such as individual timings between the loading system steps (Time taken for the loading arm to move from from Hoist to Gun for instance) , elevation and training motor amps, System Positional Accuracy tests, system braking overshoots, recuperator pressures etc. This information can be saved into a database and the data can be sent back and analysed on the Digital Twin simulation. You could then see if anything is deteriorating and needs replacing or it can show that you can tweak something to improve system performance. As you will only be updating changes in a database, not the whole database, the data packet sent back via SATCOM can be quite small.

    There should be no reason why other systems couldn’t end up going down the same route. Radars, Sonar, DG Engines, GTs etc

    The disadvantage may be that maintainers rely on the Digital Sim for solutions instead of taking ownership of the systems, of being proactive in recognising issues and fixing them themselves. This is what Artificers(Tiffs) did as a matter of course . When the RN stopped apprenticeships and went down the road of Engineering Technicians some of this skill set was lost. My understanding now is the RN has seen the error of its ways and is bringing apprenticeships back and the deep diagnostic and engineering skills that the Tiffs of old brought to the party.

  5. While we spend our time delaying in-service dates for our Type 26/31’s, fitted for but not with no doubt?

    09 APRIL 2021
    Pentagon budget 2022: White House reveals USD715 billion topline request

    For example, given the administration’s continued focus on China as the ‘pacing threat’, some top lawmakers have suggested that the navy receive a larger budget next year.

    https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/pentagon-budget-2022-white-house-reveals-usd715-billion-topline-request

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