Babcock International has today announced it has taken the difficult decision to exit operations at its Appledore facility in Devon, ending its site lease in March 2019.
The news comes days after people marched in Bideford at a protest to save the shipyard and after a petition signed by 8,000 people was handed in to the House of Commons.
Babcock say its focus is now firmly on its workforce and its determination to protect their employment within the business. To that end, the company will offer relocation opportunities for all 199 Appledore employees at other Babcock facilities, 140 of whom are already on short-term redeployment to its Devonport operations.
“Babcock very much regrets having to take this course of action and recognises the impact it will have on its dedicated and professional workforce. The company will now engage in a consultation period, working closely with its employees and their Trade Unions representatives during this difficult time.
In 2017/18 Appledore generated around £24 million of the Group’s total underlying revenue of £5.4 billion.”
Where does this leave their Type 31e bid?
Most likely with BAE
Navy Lookout have said that the Arrowhead 140 is still very much in the race, but they can’t say anything else, lets assume its from a well informed source, so thats a small bit of good new s at least!
That’s good news. The Leadner design would be OK for the Gulf role if the RN are going to station a ship there permanently. We could perhaps then cut 2 hull from the budget and just build 3. But Arrowhead is a better design for fleet work. And then I would only buy 3 for the budget, but in Arrowhead’s case on 3 for 1 would make it a bit of an orphan design. Perhaps buy another T26 then which would help availability of the first rate ASW platform (on a 3 for 1 basis).
It’s not. The Arrowhead 140 is deader than the Dodo.
I do believe that BAE/CM have this contract locked down! but from what i can tell/hope Babcock are still in the race, but I have feeling its more or less on life support.
After speaking in person with somebody who works in Babcock’s sales department just last week, I was left with the very firm impression that Arrowhead 140 is still very enthusiastically in the race.
There’s no helping the delusional.
Well Mr BAE representative, you would say that wouldn’t you .
What i DO know is that as late as last month they were showing of the Arrowhead 140 design in Poland.
another piece of heritage gone, chatham, pompey,Devenport don’t get the chance to build warships anymore BAE get the business from the blinkered M.O.D
Pompey and Devonport haven’t built warships for over 50 years. Leanders where the last warships built inthose HM Dockyard’s in the late 60s.
Modular units for T45 and QE don’t count as ship building. They could have been built anywhere.
You are incorrect. OPV’s are warships and Portsmouth had built plenty of them in the 2000’s when Vosper Thornycroft’s, BVT and BAE. Modular blocks are pure shipbuilding too.
Exactly! And future ships! It built all the New Irish OPVs recently! And I bet Babcock close down rosythe in Scotland also!!! This shouldn’t happen! The government should step in! We have far to few capable yards with capable men as it is!!!
Shame. Shame. Shame.
No orders, no orders, no orders.
It’s shame when anybody loses their job or anything closes.
You should try being a little kinder. 🙂
Nobody has lost their jobs. Read the press articles.
Plenty of people will lose their jobs in the local economy.
Yet more erosion of our ship building industry all because the government cannot get a comprehensive and affordable strategy together. There should be enough work to keep the few yards we have left with work. Instead, we get sporadic work streams that leave some programmes artificially slowed and others requiring lots of ships in a short space of time.
It’s not rocket science, are they just thick as shit?
An insult to shit tbh.
Much thicker.
We’ve far too few shipbuilders left. If we ever need new warships in a hurry, we’re screwed.
Very sad for Appledore. Feel for the workers there. The shipyard I worked at closed in 1993.
With an escort and patrol ship fleet of less than 30 and little hope of it getting to 35 we don’t need more than one yard. With two yards and ships having a 25/30 year life that’s not much more than one ship every two years. That’s bound to be a very expensive way to go.
We absolutely need more than 1 yard, are BAES going to build the Type 26 and the Type 31? And solid support ships? And aircraft carriers?
It’s not about being dependent on just MOD orders for pity sake. Babcock is like BAE.
It really depends on what you want. If you (and I don’t mean you personally) insist that the nations finances are run the same as household finances then we are all likely to be disappointed and see a lessened navy. The government says that national debt is at 85% of GDP at about £1,764 billion. This is not true. £435ish billion worth of the UK’s national debt, is owed to the Bank of England, which is owned by the government. £1328bn is about 64% of GDP and no worse or better than most. So ignore the debt for a bit.… Read more »
Must be part of the shipbuilding strategy. Open goal for BAE with the Type 31e then?
Open goal ? More like an own goal, SMH.
So if they are making £24 million, why is it closing?
Revenue doesn’t equal profit.
Making £24m this year. With no solid orders lined up that flips the other way next fiscal year. Shipbuilding is one of the most capital intensive enterprises you can engage in. The only one that costs more between orders is aircraft manufacturing.
Very intensive when trying to build something like Appledore. In today’s prices would be around 65 to 70 million pounds. But Germany spends 200 million on just modernizing their facilities! Ha! They are far more expensive too, Ha Ha!
Appledore contributed/ generated 24 mil towards the revenue stream of Babcock.
It does not say that the yard was operating at break even or profit.
Wages, materials, equipment maintenance , insurance, power bills etc all need to be covered.
Best guess is the 24 mil did not cover the yearly running costs hence its being closed.
Then we have to look at our insurance and energy industry and why it is killing the UK industry!
24 Million in turnover-not profit
Ah, I missed that part.
..and not even 1% of turnover but still very sad news
Appledore earned 280M GBP with the 4 Samuel Beckett OPV, within 2012 to 2018 (7 years). 40M GBP per year. If Babcock is to win T31e program, among the 1.25B GBP for ~10 years (125M/year), more than 40M GBP must have been used in Appledore.
So, Babcock though the T31e contract is risky?
According to this research note from a Hedge Fund Group, Babcock has a couple of major issues to deal with.
https://theboatmancapital.com/
That report has been linked to short sellers targeting Babcocks stock.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/10/15/fears-babcock-target-shortsellers-mysterious-report/
Babcocks do have problems there is no denying it.
I know they were competing for a contract to build OPVs for Malta but didn’t win.
They’ve realise it would not be competitive moving blocks from Appledore to Rosyth for the t31, Babcock bid maybe a single yard build.
Wasn’t Appledore the only remaining English yard that has built a warship in recent times?
Cammel Laird and Barrow-in-Furness still remain, but obviously BiF only builds nuclear subs and CL’s most recent warship experience is either blocks of the QECs or the Upholder-class diesel subs in the early 90s.
This is definitely worrying though. Appledore was a key aspect of the Babcock bid, which means the T31 competition is probably going to devolve into English shipbuilding vs Scottish shipbuilding (Cammel Laird vs Rosyth most likely, although Harland and Wolffe may still play a role). This situation really didn’t need more politics thrown in
It’s a pity they have not been able to secure more exports for this ship beyond the ROI. I believe they even considered increasing their order beyond 4 when the pound dropped against the EURO, they do have quite a large EEZ they are supposed to patrol. I think they where also exploring building a hospital ship along the same lines as New Zealand. I’m not sure if UK yards would be favorites for that order or not.
Shameful HMG. SHAMEFULL!
What of the National Shipbuilding Strategy?
This is worth a read, scroll to the part from Geoffrey Cox, MP for Torridge and West Devon is interesting.
https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/live-appledore-shipyard-closing-babcock-2171221
So Babcock are pulling strings trying to force an order?
We should order 5 more River B2 and offer them to the yard, conditional that they can build them at a sensible price. Not 300 million plus like before.
I understand Babcock are bidding for the Solid Support Ships and T31. Reading between the line they’re saying 60m and then what. Babcock own it to their workers to take the 60m and then wait for the outcome of the 2 tenders, unless of course Babcock management believe bids will fall short then you have ask why would we want to give them an order when there’s yards like CL who seem competitive.
I actually think a UK yard will get the SSS if reasonably priced.
Same here, I think the government will want to be seen supporting British industry for once.
£60m of work offered to Babcock to keep the yard open but Babcock refused. You have to wonder are Babcock trying to play a political game here to secure T31e. They know the unions will do their upmost to ensure the general public get a message that the government is at fault.
Babcock are not being offered £60m of new work, it is future work already awarded and scheduled to be completed at Devonport … what the government is offering is to bring that work forward to now.
Issue is that no work is guaranteed for Appledore after this, and leaves a gapping whole in the scheduled work at Devonport . Babcock took the decision to ensure the viability of one yard rather than put two at risk.
And when the government cave and give the Scottish a second independence vote, and they do leave… What happens when we don’t have enough shipyards?
I think the issue with Appledore indicates the complete problem with MoD ship building. The first problem is that the covered dock for new build will not be able to house the new Type 31, if I remember correctly it can only take a new build of 104 m. Yet this would have been enough for the new OPVs and boats of the Gib Squadron. But the new OPVs went to BAE on the Clyde so that the workforce could be retained for the delayed start of the Type 26s. If the Type 26s were ordered on time then it… Read more »
Ron, I see what your saying but the Batch 2 were built because of the delay not because they were needed. Not that a couple more OPVs would not be put to good use and we could have piggy backed on the Irish order to keep costs down.
Interesting on the covered dock, I don’t think BAe Clyde can build the T26 in their build hall.
From what I have read, the government is not offering them new work, rather offered to bring forward work that is scheduled for their Devonport yard at a letter date …. this would create a hole in the work at Devonport, potentially putting it at risk in the future as well
Appledore built hms scott at 130m long!!!
The building dock is 116 meters, but has built ship diagonally too. Not best thing to do I know as it takes up space and is clumsy.
BAE don’t have a dockhall at Govan or Scotstoun. They build the vessels in blocks in large fabrication halls then assemble them outside on the quay at Govan. They move them about using multiaxle trailers. To launch them they move them on to a barge, take it down the clyde, sink the barge to allow the ship to float off. The ship is then towed back to Scotstoun for outfitting at the quay. BAE were going to build a modern covered dockhall at Scotstoun but the SNP got upset because it would have meant Govan would close.
What a disaster, we spent around £500M to house the F35 at RAF Marham, so why not find some more to extend the yard in Appledore to save it if they win the bid for the T31e?
8,000 fewer votes for the current government I guess.
Morning
It continues to amuse and amaze that you manage to find every piece of news to have a go at F-35.
Everyone needs their small mountain I suppose.
Infrastructure is not cheap and F-35 will provide work for at least the next 30 years, specifically around the areas where the aircraft are based.
Babcock have gone very quiet regarding T31, very little on their website. Wouldn’t surprise me if they will withdraw. Bae already had a solid design that just needed stretching, so they are probably way behind especially as they have dropped their arrowhead 140 design now. Maybe to much to achieve in such a short time frame to be competitive?
I wouldn’t call a design that’s a further stretch of an already stretched design “solid”. The adjectives that spring to mind are instead “cheap”, “suboptimal” and “compromised”.
One of the main requirements is that they are cheap, so they have indeed came up with a solid design which fits all the requirements asked of them.
Time ticks on and still no type 31 order. Considering the ships are supposed to be coming into service in 2023 things are starting to look even worse for the future of the Royal navy. The government have no bandwidth or capability for anything but BREXIT.
Meanwhile one of the last and best shipyards in the UK is quietly announced to be closing and nothing is said. It is all just fine. Strategic incoherence yet again Bravo HMG. Just order the damn type 31 and make sure we get enough of them to actually be of use.
tragic shame for quality engineering – the Appledore blocks were the only ones to ever actually fit properly on this recent block builds I hope hope hope its a bit of politics to push through the 31E bid when the other party don’t actually want it and for the record, the Arrowhead is the better design on a proven hull – anyone with more than a decimal point in front of their IQ can only look at the new OPV issues to see how some ships are thrown together we let Swan Hunter go – lets not make the same… Read more »
I would like to see a BMT Venari (sp) 85 built as a future MCM vessel built to test the remote operations etc. Just a single hull for now, with the prospect of more if the testing works out. Appledore would have been the ideal place to build it.
Whether Appledore stays open or not the NSS is just shambolic. There is enough requirement to fund a UK shipbuilding industry, if we do it properly. A 25 year plan could/should look something like this: 25 T31 (unit price £400m) = £400m pa (1 per year) 13 T26 (unit price 1200m) = £600m pa (1 every 2 years) 7 Aegir FFT (unit price £300m) = £100m pa (1 every 3 years) 9 Aegir JALS (unit price £450m) = £150m pa (1 every 3 years) 10 SSN (unit price £1250m) = £500m pa (1 every 2.5 years) 4 SSBN (unit price… Read more »
I like the idea, but you are missing the amphibious assault ships and the Astutes are running at 1.64m for boat 7 and they take longer than 2.5 years to build.
Hi Paul I think the astute take that long is a political decision, they can build them quicker. I believe the average price is £1.25bn, but even at £2bn each over 27 years it £750m pa. I am not missing the Amphibs – I have rolled them into a joint amphibious logistics ship as the Dutch do with their Karel Doorman vessel. This will give us a greater capability to do both supply and amphibious and we leverage the Aegir hull form. A KD can hanger 6 merlins and has LCU spots and a steel beach, but we could adapt… Read more »
How is a Karel Doorman type vessel a big uptick on our Bays and Albion’s if they don’t even have a well dock?
Where are the LCU spots? Do you mean LCVP’s? How is 3 Cdo going to get everything ashore in LCVP’s?
Am I misunderstanding your proposal?
Thanks Pacman. How many yards would be needed to fulfill that drumbeat? How many do we have?
I think we should go for 4 perhaps 5 sites on this, but I also think we need to move Complex warship building into England now (unfortunately as a result of the SNP). T26 = Clyde (BAES) T31 = Liverpool (CL) Aegir ships = Liverpool (CL) Subs – Barrow (BAES) Small vessels – Devonport (Babcock / Atlas / Others) Specialists – Devonport (Babcock) I have to say I think we should spread the load and hope that this baseline allows the companies to invest and gain other orders. I also have to say that I would prefer the T31’s to… Read more »
You know I like it.
The 500 small vessels would include CB90s or equivilent, LCU/LCVP, UKBA Damen Stan 4207s, and 9-11m RHIBs to match up with the RNLI who have 200+ of them.
This is work for at least 3 small yards, including HolyHead Marine plus maybe Tyneside and Chatham.
New Zealand built a shorter, 85m version of the Irish 90m OPV that Appledore built. The NZ version is ice hardened, lacks the 76mm gun, but does have a landing deck & hangar for a light helicopter (Seasprite size). I would love to keep Appledore open with an order for 4x stretched, say 95m, OPV with 57mm gun, ice hardening + hangar & deck for Wildcat, for the RN as the RN lacks ice hardened vessels. Sadly that extra billion for defence in the budget is just a sticking plaster. So lacking MoD or export orders, Appledore is doomed. The… Read more »
@JohnHartley The UK spends a shed load on defence – it just does so very poorly in my opinion. We try to gold plate everything instead of evolving a design. Plenty of examples of this so won’t go into it. The RN can have a stunning fleet, compact but dangerous with a strategic plan and a commitment to funding (nothing outrageous – see above). We need to stop expensive mid life upgrades and build new. The FSL has already stated this – now we need to give our friends in South America (Brazil, Chile) a heads up and a payment… Read more »
Well there are so many figures for what the UK spends on defence. There is so much spin, so many half truths, so much fiddling on the 2%. Then of course the crazy PFI’s (Voyager I am looking at you). Then huge amounts spent on half thought out projects that end up cancelled. However, there is still a huge black hole in the MoD budget for the next decade. £20 billion would fill it at £2 billion a year, but £20 billion a year extra is pledged to the NHS, so that will take all the spare cash. If it… Read more »
Forget about Brazil … they dismissed the BAE proposal based on the Leander for their project of light frigates / Tamadaré corvettes.
Dare I say the NHS is more dangerous to Britain than anything else!
No doubt an attractive, brownfield site, for residential development, more holiday homes wioth marina?
Don’t want to say i told you so.
Shame though. I watched the INS OPV quite closely.
Dreadnought program is an example of the MoD wanting a gold standard of submarine technology. I very much think the Dreadnought program will be the main source of drain of the Royal Navy’s budget, over the next crucial decade for RN fleet procurement. Priced at around £8 billion per sub. is of poor value of money for CASD, and needs to be cancelled. The UK does not need the range of Trident D5 missile. A Trident C4 or like type new missile of about 10m should fit in a Astute class sub. and will be sufficient to cover the range… Read more »
Beijing is 5500 miles and a D5 has a range of 7500 miles. Why would we send a V-boat to the East?
Any missile launched from North Atlantic towards China, would need to go over Russia.
Do you believe Russia would allow that??
What would/could they do to stop it ?
The Russians will most likely attempt to shoot it down if missile is still in boost stage over their territory, which is most likely.
If not, expect some fired back.
Things launched in Russia go over our heads all day long. 🙂
But ICBM’s are only suborbital(about 70M) then come back down again to nuke you.
Nope it could go straight over the North Pole to china.
A missile launched near Faeroe Is. will go over the North Pole end up in the Pacific near Marshall Islands. US won’t be happy! You are well off target mate!
Any missile that takes a trajectory to China from the Atlantic will pass over Russian territory. It is so huge!
The USA has CASD subs. in both Pacific and Atlantic Oceans.
Any missiles fired from Pacific Ocean not necessarily go over Russian territory.
It is important where you are situated if you are a small country. The USA has a luxury of large space of ocean.
UK Defense Breakdown.
https://rusi.org/commentary/uk-defence-and-2018-budget
Cheers!
It is very sad day,i have worked with Appledore lads in Devonport and a great bunch they are,what we will miss most though will be access to their fantastic team of skilled men who fabricated sections,swaged bulkheads,frames and outer shells in their workshops in Appledore for the type 23 refits ongoing at Devonport. I wish them luck,i know a few have been offered work in Devonport which is good news but we will sorely miss the workshop facilities and the great work that was produced there,God knows who will do this work now.
Thankyou
However good Appledore may be as a shipyard I suspect it suffers from a couple of issues. Compared to other dockyards, i.e. BAES, CL, A&P, H&W and Babcock’s Rosysth, it lacks scale and other existing business to help it stand alone financially. It also seems the lease is expiring in March 2019 requiring Babcock to sign on for an extension. How long would that be? A short term £60M of revenue at who knows what margins won’t help much if Babcock doesn’t win the T31e competition and is then committed to a long term lease with no work to offset… Read more »
Who owns A&P Tyne?
Find that out and ask yourself why would they help Babcock’s?
The point is that Babcock are not dependent on Appledore for T31e. If RN prefer the Babcock design then are you saying A&P or even CL for that matter would refuse the potential to manufacture a module for it if the opportunity arose? Neither are necessary partners at this stage and there are plenty of examples of competitors working together in military contracts should they be interested in future.
good to see the national shipbuilding strategy is going well…
Not particularly surprised, people are forgetting that Babcock acquired Appledore when they bought DML. Babcock has never traditionally been in the ship building business and the Appledore yard is quite frankly sub-optimal as a build or maintenance facility that has already gone into receivership in 2003 and struggled throughout her the latter half of the twentieth century and early 21st. Even with T31e I am sceptical that the yard had a realistic long term future, other more optimal build facilities like Portsmouth have already dropped out of the Ship Building business so it is rather a miracle that Appledore has… Read more »
“I highly doubt that they would give the work to a UK yard if we are following through the Brexit disaster”.Groan.
Yes indeed groan, we are running out of time to stop this disastrous Brexit!
Another Remoaner suffering from Stockholm Syndrome…
Another Quitling not facing up to reality…
Considering that Brexit utterly shafts Ireland both economically and politically why would they be interested in continued defence procurement from the UK?
Don’t be a silly billy. What the Irish do is their concern not ours. We don’t have to close the border our side. What they do their side is up to Berlin. Simples. Calm down now you will give yourself the vapours. 🙂
Couldn’t give a rats tit what Ireland do tbh.
Agree with Marc and Steve. Our side of the border will remain open for trade and peace. What the theologically opposed EU dictates to the Irish to do is their loss. If the Irish wanted too we could come to a bilateral trade deal tomorrow ensuring Ireland’s land bridge to the EU (through the UKs road network) is maintained. Otherwise Ireland is about to get a very ha4d shock to their economy as we charge them WTO rules for imports and exports coming through the UK. 2% revenue to HMG for all Irish trade= about £1.5-2 billion a year extra.… Read more »
Oh good Lord where start Mr Bell! That is a special level of delusion! “Our side of the border will remain open for trade and peace. ” – WTO Most favoured nation status, have a look into it before declaring that the UK will keep its border open for trade or Peace. “If the Irish wanted too we could come to a bilateral trade deal tomorrow ensuring Ireland’s land bridge to the EU (through the UKs road network) is maintained. ” – Not how the Single market works, you deal with the EU or not at all. “Otherwise Ireland is… Read more »
Morning all I hope to answer as many comments as possible above so apologies if I do not name check. It is disappointing to say the least that Appledore is closing now that the Irish order is complete and, as of yet, the yard has received no further orders of work. It is also interesting to note that the work force are not being laid off but redeployed to Devonport, or offered redeployment to Devonport. It is also a shame to hear that the lease is up, in that’s times of having assets on the books I would have thought… Read more »
“Geoffrey Cox is an extremely powerful MP, until recently not widely known outside of government and the party – he’s the legal man now that keeps those that wish to disrupt Brexit in order so has great influence with the PM and those that make decisions.” –
He was that puffed up Prat who made that awful delusional cringe worthy speech at the Tory conference yes?
By the by it is not disrupting Brexit, that is a self fulfilling event. Rather it is patriotically trying to save the country from utter disaster!
“Rather it is patriotically trying to save the country from utter disaster!” Like the utter disaster that was happening, and gaining speed, by remaining. Which was why the nation, by majority, voted to leave. Do you have your one way ticket to continental Europe yet? Because, with the defeatist, unpatriotic crap you come out with and total inability to believe in your nation or support its democratic decision that is where people like you need to go. Once the UK starts to rebuild its place in the world we need people who can see this nations potential, what it already… Read more »
Blah, blah, blah. Lot of words from Lee that add up to a big fat nothing.
By the way, Baes will not be “cutting metal” for the Type 31’s. Get your facts straight.
Afternoon Ron5
Always good to see your responses, good to see you can also count to 3.
If you read the comment properly you would see I said could and not would, but I am guessing attention to detail isn’t your thing.
One other thing, I never profess to state fact, merely and opinion and a view, you however seem very keen to express your facts for us all to read.
Have a great day
As a businessman operating a Devon wide logistics company I am sorry that North Devon is taking another knock as it is this part of the county that is most isolated and can ill afford to loose local jobs. At the same time you have to have a look at the history of the yard which has been in trouble for most of it’s modern life ie. since the sixties when the existing facility was built. It was nationalized in 1974 to save it going under and then sold again in 1989. By 2003 it had been put into receivership… Read more »
Interestingly enough, Babcock’s has not mentioned Devonport as a place to build Type 31 blocks. Maybe they will now.
First class my a** there are no facilities to roll or form thick plate or bend framing the dockside workshops are a disgrace the complex roof leaks like a sieve one of the doors fell off 3years ago and still hasn’t been replaced the whole place is falling to bits but not to worry the lbgt pride bullshit is the priority according to management.
PMSL…
Totally agree…There is no heavy steel works for that kind of work.
The door issue on the complex is a joke. The company who installed them no longer exists so they have no idea what to do to repair it.
This is made worse by the lack of an English Government.
If this was a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish yard, their respective government would be jumping up and down and their First Minister having a meeting with the PM.
But England does not have a government and the UK Government, rightly, thinks on a UK wide basis.
True if they were going for Federalism by making regional assemblies they shouldn’t have denied one to the most populous part.
Ah! Another elephant in the room.
Quite right.
This is devastating! It was one yard I really liked! And had hope for building patrol boats ect for foreign markets! It built a few Irish offshore patrol boats! Why can’t the government step in! We need more ship building bases not less… I’m gutted!!!!!
No budget for more ships so no more orders as that cheerful chap RonnyFive pointed out earlier up the thread. Shame because we do need something between the Rivers and the HMC cutters.
Something like the Rolls Royce Skadi OPV.
Could make a case for four.
Then give the work to a shipyard that will stay in business. Not one that will collapse again once your new orders are done.
The yard is being used by others who have no longer-term interest in it. The yard has not failed, it is successful.
I find it ironic that an English yard has clossed yet Scottish yards were given OPV work to save them! I think HMG should start looking at the whole nation not just try to play to Scotland.
Bin T31e, stretch the River2s, add hangar and build 5.
Sell off the first 5. And repeat.
Our yards need to get away from being dependent on nothing but fockin MOD orders. Being designated as warship builders back in the 80s crippled yards that could do so much more now. Where was the investment from those lucrative orders, the bloody yards apart from Pallion and Appledore (ironically) still look shit!
I want to say it again. Malta gets much in eu funds (which come from the UK as eu has not money of its own), for its military. This scum eu empire has always hated us! Its a fact we need to get over and deal with!
When pro eu left, libdem, anti-British ambition, anti-independence UK newspapers say the contract was lost due to BREXIT, who is at fault or being the bad guy? Not Britain or BREXIT. People died because Britain said no to Hitler, is that Britain’s fault too? This eu is evil pure and simple and British people who support this filth need to take a long hard look at themselves. This Appledore scandal is far bigger than a lost contract, be it eu or Babcock’s sneaky interest and manouvers, but the UK still needs to be slicker in selling itself.