Britain is donating a number of Stormer armoured vehicles fitted with Starstreak anti-air missile launchers, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said on Monday.

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said on Monday:

“I can now announce to the House that we will be gifting a small number of armoured vehicles fitted with launchers for those anti-air missiles. The Stormer vehicles will give Ukrainian forces enhanced, short-range anti-air capabilities both day and night.”

Starstreak was recently used to shoot down a Russian helicopter in Ukraine for the first time, according to a report. A Ministry of Defence source told The Times a video (you can see it below) showed Starstreak being fired over Ukraine. The source added that the system had been used by Ukrainian forces for almost a week.

The footage circulating online shows a high-velocity Starstreak projectile destroying an aircraft in the Luhansk region of Ukraine.

According to the manufacturers Thales, STARStreak is a short-range, man-portable, air-defence system manufactured by Thales in the UK and is optimised to provide defence against air threats including fixed-wing Fighter Ground Attack aircraft and late unmasking Attack Helicopters.

British supplied missile downs Russian helicopter in Ukraine

To read more about Starstreak, please click here.

Britain will also send an unspecified number of Mastiff heavily armoured vehicles to Ukraine, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace confirmed. It is understood that the vehicles will be stripped of sensitive equipment with British troops sent to a country neighbouring Ukraine to provide training.

Mastiff is the British version of the Cougar 6×6 and can be armed with a 7.62 mm GPMG, 12.7 mm heavy machine gun or 40 mm grenade machine gun.

What are Stormer armoured vehicles?

Stormer armoured vehicles are 13.5-tonne armoured vehicles manufactured by BAE Systems Land & Armaments. They were modified from armoured personnel carriers to launch high-velocity Starstreak missiles. Ukrainian troops have been in the UK training to operate these vehicles.

Ukrainian troops arriving in UK for British weapons training

Britain has been training Ukrainian troops for some time already, since 2015. Operation Orbital is the code-name for a British military operation to train and support the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It was launched in response to the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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320 COMMENTS

  1. We only got bloody 62 and the fact now its apparent they will be needed by the UK more with advent of drone warfare I just hope we don’t give away to much to put us at a disadvantage.

      • Exactly, at least they are being put to good use.

        Hopefully the MOD is able to do some creative accounting to sell them to the foreign office at full price to allow them to fund upgraded versions on boxer.

      • Exactly and they can do final combat testing for us too.

        At the present rate of attrition the Russian tanks won’t be any threat to NATO. I’m sure that is part of the reason we and the Swedes are cheerfully sending the Ukranians loads of NLAWS.

        • I read last week that though the MoD has ordered new NLAW that the warhead is made in Switzerland and have said that no such new weapons can be supplied to Ukraine or (get this) Russia, so we can only supply from our existing stocks. Anyone know if this is true for if so wondering if we have many more we can send. Thought Switzerland had come off the fence for the first time to support Ukraine. Ut perhaps not where it matters. Wonder if in future we seek alternative sources for such key items.

          • Switzerland has restated its neutrality and only recently stopped Germany from sending Swiss made ammunition for Germany’s Gepard anti-aircraft gun to Ukraine.

          • I read that Germany only had 23k rounds of ammo and the Swiss wouldn’t provide anymore so the Brazilian’s have offered another 300k- which altogether is peanuts really.
            No idea about the warhead but if true I’d be surprised if the Swiss would block the replenishment of our stocks on the basis they *may* be sent to Ukraine.

          • Well they reportedly said they would supply them as long as they weren’t sent to Ukraine. If this goes long term as seems likely this could become a problem. Especially as the US reportedly is concerned about its Javelin stocks depleting.

          • The international arms trade is operated by shadowy figures with contacts in the even more shadowy world of intel.

            Dodgy end user certificates can be obtained for a decent sized backhander and the Swiss are well aware of it. Our replacement NLAW will undoubtedly get pukka Swiss warheads

          • Mi6 will be hard at work on this one, a similar operation was carried out during the Falklands war where we went about buying up Exocet on the open market. However if Stormer works well watch the orders come flying in, it could well be on the shopping list around the world.
            As for UK stocks in the short term we are doing the right thing in helping Ukraine degrade Russias conventional armoury, in the longterm I hope the MOD are seriously looking at replacement or replenishment.

          • Such hypocrisy on their part, happy to sell munitions as long as they aren’t actually used in defence. Time to cut them out of the gravy train.

          • I dont know anything about a new warhead (lost a lot of info when i became a big fat hairy civy and lost access to the units Janes) but I did find this very interesting video on how the MBT law works:

          • Hi all, I have been a keen and somewhat avid reader of all that is written on this site and the forum within in it, I am not an ex serviceman, nor do I work in the defense Industry, in fact I work in the television production industry. I just wanted to say that as a standard member of the population I am so confused by all of this and can’t quite believe what I am seeing, still, even after 50 something days. I may be being very naive, but how on earth can a neutral country produce arms that they then deem banned for use in a conflict zone, it doesn’t make any sense, if you are neutral, then don’t produce arms, of any kind. I know that money makes the world go round but we should be able to produce everything we need independently of anyone else, especially at this time. WTAF. it’s a good job that the rest of us can fight to make sure Switzerland can maintain its neutral status, let’s face it, it’s been proven very recently that if 1 person deems it necessary to take control of another country, peaceful, neutral or otherwise then they will just do it regardless of the political official position of that country. side note,: been raging since 24 Feb!

          • That only applies to the new build ones not to existing stocks.

            The Swiss can’t retrospectively impose re-export controls!! Otherwise the whole arms industry grinds to a halt.

            Although this does underscore, to any who doubt it, why fully sovereign production is needed.

            Germany now Switzerland arsing about. It would be a lot worse if USA wasn’t inside as it only takes one tiny bit in a weapon for it not to be re-exportable if that was stated in the end-user documentation.

          • I lived and worked in Switzerland for many years on and off, what an expensive country to live in a big mac and fries could set you back £45 but I digress. Switzerland is governed by concensus, big ticket items or any major shift on government policy has to go to a referendum.
            Currently Swiss are urgently looking to replace thier F18s and F5s and was agreed by referendum with the French and German speaking people of Switzerland. The Swiss Air force hold annual excersises at RAF Waddington with us Brits and have done for years.
            The government of Switzerland are under a great deal of pressure from the EU and US.
            Having said all of the above for Switzerland to claim and promote thier neutrality to the world deals will bo done.

          • I don’t get why we’d have the parts in the supply chain coming for a known neutral. Even without Ukraine it would be a risk they would block supply to protect their neutral status.

          • I think the warhead is made by bofors Switzerland. So part of the firm that developed the weapon to start with. Multi national companies can be complicated but in this case the warhead can probably be made else where if needed.
            NLAW i typical of modern systems. Bits coming from all over the world. Some chips from Japan, electronics from USA etc etc.
            task and purpose on YouTube did a video about NLAW saying how modern systems are multinational and this maybe why only western nations have made 3rd generation anti tank missiles.
            With Swiss neutrality it does seem a bit silly to sell weapons that have a do not use in against enemy sticker on them. Gepard ammo being another issue.

          • Good point on Bofors, Sweden’s another neutral (for now) but don’t seem to be as fussed as the Swiss or Germans for that matter. The ‘Do not use on the enemy sticker’, lol

        • Yes the brutal and cruel truth is the more Russian tanks and aircraft that Ukraine destroys are more tanks and aircraft our forces will not have to worry about one day facing.

        • I think that this has to be the cheapest and lowest risk conflict that we’ve been involved in since that 38-minute war with zanzibar!
          That we’re militarily degrading Russia’s full time active force, to the point where it’s a stump of its former capability, is a significant removal of a threat we’ve been needing to account for since the end of WW2.

      • What we do next to fix the gaps will be interesting. I fear the answer is nothing and the capability will just be lost.

        For sure massively weakening Russia will be a massive bonus to our defence, as Russia was reastically the only miltiary threat to the mainland UK and so donating gear is without a question the right thing to do.

        However we haven’t been gearing for a fight against Russia for a long time, our focus has been on the middle East, and that hasn’t exactly stabilised and drones/tanks are plentiful across the region and will only increase in numbers.

    • Blasphemy, we must continue to funnel weapons into Ukraine in order to “achieve peace” right up to the point where we could provoke Russia in to a Thermonuclear exchange, welcome to 2022.

      • Yes because brutal dictators always stop invading other countries because everyone else is nice to them and just lets them invade one little country.

        The simple fact is the only trigger point for a general war is if Russia invaded a NATO county (as nato will never invade Russia). The most realistic driver for Russia invading a NATO country is if NATO did nothing to stop its conquest of Ukraine and Russia thought it could get away with pushing nato.

        As the the U.K. and France doing nothing to curtail Germany in the 1930s inevitably lead to a world war, so NATO being completely passive now would do the same.

        The sad truth is there may be nothing to prevent a general war, if Putin is so far gone to push all the way ( as Hitler allowed his whole nation to burn) or if China feels it can take the republic of China then there will be a general war anyway, but that will not be because of the actions or in actions of NATO at present.

      • What missile would this utilise, Martlet? Starstreak? The latter now seems to be getting updates, the originals seem to have has an out of service date of 2020 so no wonder they are happy to use them up. MBDA seem to be a little vague beyond Brimstone what missiles it might use just ‘existing and future portfolio’ is all I could find, showed 3 missiles but only recognised Brimstone.

        • Only anti aircraft missile that I have so far seen offered for it is Mistral which hardly seems cutting edge. I guess Starstreak/Martlet combo would be best solution. Hey the sweet spot would be if you could add a few Brimstones separately, seem to be proposing that as a vertical launch solution currently so as a fire and forget it might theoretically be possible to combine all three. Means it could tackle anything from low flying jets, through drones and light armour to heavy armour in an emergency. Geez that would be one hell of a lethal threat, so I’m sure won’t materialise.

      • i don’t think that number was modified for StarStreak but I would acknowledge we had many more hulls at one point.

        • I believe near the end of the cold war the aim was too have a regiment of 3 batteries each with 36 stormer to provide each division with 36 Javelin, 36 stormer, 12 tracked rapier and 12 towed rapier.

    • It’s a great sales pitch for the weapons and vehicles so we’ll recoup whatever we lose in increased sales, or rather the British manufacturers will and then they will supply more to us at a reduced cost, if Ukraine holds they are one of the largest suppliers of precious minerals and metals like silicon, platinum, rhodium, uranium, they also have the second largest natural gas reserves in Europe after Iceland, on top of that there’s massive untapped oil reserves and iron ore so they will end up paying financially the dept to us like Europe did to America after ww2, also British companies will be able to mine those resources in future goodwill business deals so for us it makes sense.

    • Think of it as the Ukrainians testing them out in real war setting. The info gained from that alone is worth a lot. Just like all the other weapons being supplied to them. They are all reporting how well or not so well they perform is real combat.

    • It’s been hinted that if we give them these the government will have to replace them quicker with the boxer so not to deplete our capabilities.

    • These must be the ones put in storage.what worries me more is there doesn’t seem to be a boxer or Ajax based replacement for Stormer or the retired striker..

  2. Putin must be doing his nut in. Western hand me down weapons held in reserve seem to be far superior to Russias most modern frontline equipment.
    His vile foreign secretary is right about one thing. NATO and Russia are in a state of proxy war with Rusdia over the Ukraine. Lets just hope the brave men and women of Ukraine can use this equipment to defeat Russia and defend their sovereign democratic country.

    • Hi Mr Bell, generally agree but just to clarify one point it’s not a proxy war, this a a Russian war of aggression, with NATO supporting an independent but friendly nation to defend itself. A proxy war is a state of war between two actors who are acting on behalf of other nations. Russia is invading on its own behalf, Ukraine is defending on its own behalf, if nato did nothing they would still be at war.

  3. Couple of comments, I have not heard of another aircraft or helicopter downed by a Starstreak since the one posted above just about 4 weeks ago. Has anyone else here? If not, this is surely disappointing given the number of RUAF in the air over Donbas.

    Great plan to ship the Stormer, excellent PR and good reaction here. But, how are they going to travel, as a tracked vehicle, the 800 or so miles (John o’ Groats to Land’s End) to the front in Donbas given that the RuAF have last night destroyed the only railway link from Romania and key links in the railway, including its electrification, west of Kiev, plus their shortage of diesel? Any ideas?

      • Not me personally but generally the Ukrainians announce to all and sundry any success like that, especially if it can make donors feel good.

        • Give it a rest you russian muppet, no one on earth is driving a tracked vehicle 800 miles anywhere for a start, and why the hell do you think these would go thru Romania?
          And for the other comments bemoaning the UK’s lack of these vehicles -they were being phased out anyway so might as well use them for what they were designed for -destroying russian aircraft.

          • Hi James D.

            Not defending JMK, but he didn’t suggest they would, only that the railways have been hit, allegedly.

            As for Stormer, I’m not aware of them being phased out, as the HVM Stormer combination is still very much our SHORAD system. The great loss from 150 plus to our current numbers is just stupid cuts.

            I’m sure the Ukrainians will find plenty of routes to get this kit where it’s needed, despite Russian attempts to disrupt.

          • “Not defending JMK, but he didn’t suggest they would, only that the railways have been hit, allegedly.”

            Yup, some are very quick to call ‘Troll’ on here, it can lead to ‘hive mind’ and put others off posting.

            It all seems very narcissistic, I mean, apart from winding up some boys on a forum, what real damage would it do to our military etc. There are plenty domestic nutters on here with demands for an extra 50 of this or a hundred of that…. the joys of forums.
            

          • As for trolls mate, take 10 minutes out and read JohninMKs previous posts! Strangely enough pretty much a few weeks prior to Putins invasion! He is a troll, he knows it and so do we! Read his posts and be both amazed and sadly amused! Cheers.

          • True.

            JMK likely isn’t a troll. But he his comments are often questionable. One wonders where his true loyalty lies sometimes.

          • Tams disagree as he does use at least 3 avatars, others are Andrew and Kayaker! The similarities are easy to see when spending a bit of time doing some close investigation. Same hardly used (by most on here or in the Uk) acronyms, style, content, etc etc the list goes on but having a look at all three is interesting. He fucked up when using kayaker on a comment about GCSEs, and since I gripped that avatar, not been seen since! And when one is up, the others aren’t unless one is handed his arse (or makes an error) then the other is up supporting etc. if you have a slow day I do recommend having a look, it’s quite sad but amusing at the same time. Trolls literally inhabit every posting/comment site on the internet, it’s just the numbers per site, based on usage and footfall, which differ. Cheers mate.

          • With your delusions I think you might need to see a specialist. I am the only me here. Why would I need more than that? Not sure what the GCSE comment was about, my children took them, I did O levels.

          • I have never wondered at all. It is as clear as day. ‘He’ goes quiet when the news stream involves digging up hundreds of Ukrainian civvies saved from Nar-zzim by being shot in the back of the head and put in the earth. ‘He’ or ‘they’, don’t comment, instead weedle and provoke for Russia and against Ukraine and N.A.T.O. Fortunately a lot of blokes around UKDJ have served and are world class banter mongers.

          • Not sure ‘banter’ in the House of Commons is going down to well at the moment, the females are gagging on the bit, the blokes are wondering what’s the problem and no ones mentioned the sore knees of one or two females who would seem to have been gagging for it rather than gagging on it.

            I’ll git mi anorak.

            Meanwhile, keep kicking Russian arse Ukraine!

          • Thanks, yes some of my comments are questionable, in war few of the real truths appear, so people should discuss not abuse them here. To some a troll is as simple as someone who doesn’t agree with their view, that’s clearly me.

            My loyalty? I’m an English patriot but I’m not blinded by propaganda. I try to see any issue from both sides, which as you can see on here seems to generate a stunning amount of bigotry and abuse from some who are polarised towards one side, almost as if they were brainwashed.

            What I find really sad and depressing is the content of AndyP’s comment a few above this re “hive mind and put others off posting’. The constant attacking of anyone putting even a mild comment against the entrenched view of others, let alone agreeing with me, cannot be good for the quality of educated discussion on this site. I have little doubt that some take one look and don’t come back.

            It might be fun and games for some but it is clearly bullying, turning this place into a one sided, closed mind site when it could be so much more.

          • Ok so as a UK citizen, why do you think it’s “not to bad” that only, as you claim, only one Russian cruise missile has been shot down?
            As a UK citizen why will you not condemn Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine?
            As a UK citizen why have you spent hundreds of posts justifying this illegal invasion?
            As a UK citizen why have you claimed that the Russians weren’t going to invade (all NATOs propaganda) and then they did, and as a UK citizen you then justify the invasion by following Putins party line that it’s anti-Nazi? And as a UK citizen why did you revel in your post that “the Azov will be hunted and shot” War crimes, no trial, uniformed opposition, it’s illegal! There’s so much more but we can all spend ages moments reading your previous garbage over the last 2 months!
            As for bullying if you don’t like it then flag it upto admin, and then raise your head above the parapet so they can both check your own posts and then have a dig into IP address etc! Give yourself a day off son, you are a troll and it’s very sad!

          • We’ve discussed sometimes, but, you do present as carrying the flag for Russia.

            Should that be said, come out and say it.

            Again, over on Defencetalk ‘feanor’ presents material that shows AFU taking a malleting – he doesn’t gloat over it and it adds balance. Perhaps, study his style?

          • Hi DM. Am Are the retired Stormers in long term storage and not sold? Surely there is an Army contingency plan to reactivate stored units in times of a crisis , or am I way off the mark?

            I have wondered if that might extend to other stored assets like Challenger. It does seem like a logical thing to do.

          • There are a huge number of AFVs that have been sold in previous years including CVR(T)s of various types both to foreign armies and to private citizens, but I am not sure about Stormer specifically. As the army has contracted, and it is my contention that the army has been reduced once or twice a decade since the end of the Korean War, then the total numbers required of equipment is reduced. The fleet size for AFVs is UE+RP+Trg Org+WMR. UE is split between Unit holdings and depot stored equipments under WFM. Happy to explain more. So what is stored is a proportion of UE and WMR which some call Attrition Reserve. Any equipment above this required fleet size is in theory disposed of by sale or scrapping.
            In theory all kit in storage is 100% complete to CES and is fully serviceable. The reality is rather different and many vehicles will be unserviceable and/or stripped for spares at least to some extent.

          • There is a Starstreak Stormer parked just up the road from me in a farmyard so some definitely have been sold to the genral public.

          • As Graham has alluded to there are a few in storage, but it costs money to keep them in an environment controlled area, serviced and tested, and if needed upgraded. Sad to say mate we dispose of to much effective kit to soon. There are Stormers in storage but not many out of the 150 plus we originally had. In fact the Stormer body minus the AD kit is quite a common vehicle being used privately by firms giving people a paid ride in a “tank”. Cheers mate hope all is good with you and family!

          • Thanks AB – great explanation, It seems a worthwhile cost to keep some of this gear , but I guess budgets are tight.

            All good with me thanks, trust you are also keeping well.

          • All good here mate, sun is out and I’ve got time off work! Whoop whoop….hang on Mrs Airborne has got me building another patio, bloody wacker plating the sub base, no need for gym today 😂👍

          • Does she know you might be digging her own grave… 😉 Will there be spare room for my missus?

          • There were 29 Stormers carrying Shielder for the Sappers up to 2013/14. They must be in storage unless they were sold to private collectors.

          • Hi Graham, I think that the Shielders were Spartans with the rear crew compartment gas axed off and a flat bed built to take the mine dispenser. Stormers are a modified Spartan too

          • I correct myself…Stormers have an extra roadwheel each side, so a different variant entirely.

          • There is no “allegedly” DM re the ongoing destruction of the railways in Ukraine. First they hit a couple of important junctions, then the marshaling yards in Lviv and a few stations. Then they went for the substations, about 7/8 at last count, that power the primarily electrical powered system. They have around 1600 electric and 300 diesel locos. There was no problem powering the former due to electricity from nuclear power stations but the latter need scarce diesel. The head of Ukrainian railways has been complaining about it.

            Its a game of cat and mouse now.

          • Cat and mouse? You mean the civvies are the mice hiding and trying not to get murdered and raped and your half trained Russkie amateur incompetent military is the cat (a piss stained, half fed, scraggly Tom cat which has been injured after being run over) Yes johnksie you are right in your assessment, well done, cat and mouse!

          • (a piss stained, half fed, scraggly Tom cat which has been injured after being run over)

            You’ve been reading Oscar Wilde again! (Brilliant though!)

          • Bombing train stations that are full of fleeing civilians isn’t the same as making the railway infrastructure unusable.

          • Indeed it isn’t. The term ‘train station’ usually incorporates the tracks either side which may includes complex switching, the actual target, especially goods yards. There have been few if any claims of dead at these attacked areas. It is also why the electricity sub stations are prime targets, also often just outside stations.

          • Militarily, I would – so would you 😉

            However, ‘John’ forgets just how fast engineers can bring a line back into operation – think airfields – and the fact that Ukraine will be bereft of H&S to impede work

            Oh, and 4 NATO countries border Ukraine with multiple rail connections.

          • Definitely, the puzzle is why Russia didn’t attack the railways sooner.

            No I don’t forget. The Ukrainians, as all Soviets did, have specialised railway troops tasked with repairs and they are good at it. Which is why the electrical infrastructure, much more difficult to repair, is critical.

            As I said elsewhere, the sole southern route has had its vital bridge damaged, which is a lot more work than a bit of rail.

          • Tried posting a very long reply and failed.

            Diesels can be supplied from the Balts, if needs be, on skates via the Standard Gauge in Poland.

          • Me too mate I also would say they are legit targets! However I would have replied sooner but replied to myself! Well at least I won’t get into an argument that way! I was just intrigued in Johnskies possible answer.

          • It’s ok mate I would, however just testing the water as JohninMK isn’t very good when he gets into a convo and makes schoolboy errors!

          • Why has Russia’s – I mean Putin’s – war against the Ukrainian people been such an unmitigated disaster John?

            Over to you.

          • Disaster? We are reading different reports. Anyone who expected an easy fight against the largest, best trained and well armed, most dug in army west of Russia was misinformed. At to that a without par PR system.

            The Russian forces are currently grinding their way inexorably forward in eastern Ukraine in the Russian way. That is artillery, a bit more artillery, then a bit more to be certain.

            That is not a disaster, that is modern peer to peer warfare. We should all be bloody thankful that it is Ukraine in the firing line not us.

          • Wrong again. Not one objective secured. Russian military defeated in the North and being spent in the south. You do not know what peer to peer warfare actually is. It isn’t piling dead civilians on top of more dead civilians on top of bombed hospitals and schools. The only person misinformed is you. You said earlier Russia wouldn’t attack, then it would roll over Ukraine quickly, that it was all about the far right, or the ‘Moskva ‘ wasn’t sunk. Your lies trip you up all the time.

          • He trips up so many times he’s like Basil fucking Fawlty! He forgets we can all see and read his hundreds of previous posts!

          • That’s not what you were saying just prior to the illegal invasion, you were saying that Ukraines army was full of reservists, civvies, old kit and low in numbers, and as they won’t stand a chance against Russia they should give in and hand over the Donbas! Go back and read your own posts if you are having trouble remembering pal! Amazing what getting your arses kicked does for your memory!

          • No. To the civilians who were assembled in the train stations awaiting transport to a safe destination that wide interpretation of what constitutes a prime target is irrelevant. They were in their own country, fleeing a barbaric onslaught and were attacked by Russian cowards. The freshly dug graves are everywhere.

            You just cannot bring yourself to admit that Russia is wrong and is the aggressor here.

          • So far as I can see HVM works so don’t fix it; unless the engine won’t start or you can come up with a better missile. By all means put it on the list of carriers to be xferred to Boxer but I don’t see any urgency. Let’s get WR and Ajax sorted first.

          • Yes mate, it is with 12 RA at Baker Barracks.

            3 Batteries with Stormer with HVM, which are T Battery ( Shah Sujahs Troop ), 9 ( Plassey ) and 58 (Eyres ) these 3 support our 3 Armoured Infantry Brigades. And you’d assume going forward they support the two remaining armoured brigades – 12 and 20 BCT, and the new 7 LMBCT.

            I believe each of these batteries have 12 Stormer. They once each had 36, massively cut.

            There was also a 2nd Regiment once.

            The regiment also has 12 ( Minden ) Air Assault Battery that supports 16 AA Bde and the paras. This uses the LML instead of Stormer.

            The RM also have a AD Troop with LML within 30 Commando.

            A Boxer AD variant? Nothing official has been ordered regards Boxer variants beyond the 4 basic ones on order so far. There will be more, there have to be!

          • Tracked vehicles need a flatbed, either road or rail. Which is the big problem as Uktaine is geared up to use rail flatbeds and have hundreds but far fewer of the road version. The point I was making was with the reduction in rail capacity due to attacks it becomes far more difficult to transport them long distances.

            You clearly have not cottoned on that not everything goes through Poland and the the railway from the south up through Odessa has been an excellent low key way of taking ‘heavy stuff’ much further into Ukraine than going via the western border. But no more as the key bridge has been hit twice this week and is now unsafe.

          • As I keep reiterating Johnskie we and NATO have logistic professionals who can PLAN and move kit! It’s their job! Your Russians should have spent some time doing similar and maybe they wouldn’t be the current laughing stock to the world!

          • Indeed they do and they will be seeing much clearer than me the problems that I am identifying and I doubt that they view the Russians as the ‘laughing stock’ you describe, more like an increasing challenge.

          • Trust me son, it may have come as a surprise but after a full career in the mil, let me assure you our logistics people will see no increasing challenge, only a logistic problem to be solved! These people are professionals at their business and get the job done, unlike your Russian thieves and rapists!

          • Unlike AS90, Warrior or Challenger. Stormer like the rest of the CVR(T) family can self-deploy. Due to their much lower weight (12t in Stormer’s case) they don’t put so much strain on the drivetrain, suspension or tracks. They can easily do 100 miles hops with just a regrease. Tensioning the tracks is a bit of a job, but nothing compared to what’s required on Challenger and to some extent on Warrior.

        • Perhaps someone with more wisdom than yourself might have suggested the Ukrainians keep stum as to the true number of Starstreak kills, so as not to over stress your master?..
          Pretty pretty sure the Stormers and Flakpanzers will make it John.
          Try not to worry about it.
          You’ve more important things to worry about.

          • Last week it was announced in Ukraine if I remember correctly but without elaboration that a dozen flying targets had been downed by UK missiles, not sure what period they were referring to. Two further points though, they have claimed well over a thousand vehicles, including 700 tanks (over 500 Confirmed) taken out and hundreds of air targets, even 7 sea vessels, expert analysis with confirmed numbers are less but but still very, very substantial. They have film of only very few of those being taken out ( hey they have better things to do most of the time) in fact not myself seen one of an NLAWS in action though we know plenty have been used successfully. Indeed they have not specified other than the odd video what weapons took out what targets, only a fool would publish such information once the proof of concept has been demonstrated to the World.

            Even by the way, an ex Spetsnaz goon on his blog ranted on yesterday while damning Putin and demanding he should pursue total war because they have lost so much equipment they aren’t now capable of another campaign and it will take them many years just to replace what they have already lost.

          • There’s plenty of NLAW footage on Twitter. There’s one where two guys are stalking a T72 though some woods. It looks like one has a GoPro attached to his lid. They get about 200m from the side of the tank, then fire the NLAW at it. The NLAW has a direct hit on the side of the hull. The tank starts smoking immediately and the commander and gunner are seen getting out of it smartish, the driver didn’t! It looks like the ERA did not work!

          • They may well do and I don’t worry, its just an increasing problem.This is a comment re the Gepard, the last one of which was put into store in 2010.

            “I remember them well from my time in the Bundeswehr. While my primary training was as a gunner on a real tank, the Leopard 1A3, two people I knew were trained as gunners for the Gepard.
            There was a huge difference though. It took 6 months of training to become a reasonably good tank gunner. It took 12 month, including hundreds of hours in a simulator, to become a gunner on a Gepard.

            The commander role required even more training.
            The system was excellent for its time but also really complicate. The two radars have various modes for different purposes. One would better use the right one or risk to attract explosive countermeasures. The startup of the turret systems and the handling of their various error modes that could occur were not easy to handle. The tank chassis is also more complicate than the original one. It has an additional motor which powers five electric generators, two Metadyne rotary transformers and a flywheel to handle the extraordinary fast movements of the turret (2.5 sec for a 360°turn).
            There are probably less than ten people in the current Bundeswehr who still know how to operate and maintain a Gepard. There is thus little chance to find German crews for them.
            If the Ukrainians really want to use these outdated systems they will have to train fresh crews for at least a year. Otherwise those guns will be ineffective and of little use.”
            https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/04/politico-germany-approves-tank-sales-to-ukraine-bowing-to-pressure/comments/page/2/#comments

          • The Gepard is still more than capable, especially considering they’re being ‘tweaked’ before deployment. It would seem apart from a myriad of AD assets now deployed your compatriates seem more troubled by the weather and the rain.
            Without biting please elaborate on the Ru air superiority and control of air space?…

          • OK. Background first. At the start of all this the Ukrainians had by far the largest, most complex, layered and capable AD system west of the Russian border, it dwarfed anything in NATO. Virtually all of it was mobile, increasing its resilience. Originally planned and implemented as a very tough nut to crack against large numbers of NATO aircraft. Once the latter became allies it’s CC was enhanced to incorporate data from NATO assets, airborne in particular. This latter element being a game changer.

            On the other side, the Russian attack systems were designed to overcome NATO style AD, not the enhanced Ukrainian type that they are now facing. Any aircraft, at any height is potentially vulnerable from AD systems that in many cases only had to turn on their tracking radar for a short period, due to being fed targeting data from an AWACS in protected airspace, fire a missile and then quickly move to another site. But given that Ukraine is the best part of 1000 miles across AWACS is far less effective in the east.

            The net result is that until almost all UkAD systems are gone there is no chance of RuAF superiority or control of airspace over the country as a whole. Given the current rate of destruction claimed by Moscow of around 3-4 a week each of S-300 and Buk this will take months.

            Operationally the situation is nuanced depending upon how far away the AWACS is. In the western half of the country this has forced Russia to use irs long range ballistic and cruise missiles against targets where they might have expected to use manned aircraft. Whilst in the east they have more flexibility with MANPADs being the main risk forcing them to increase operations at night.

            That’s my summary hope it was OK. Many lessons are being learnt by all.

          • Ah excuses are like arseholes, we all have one! Any condemnation of Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine?

          • Deflecting again. If this invasion was really about nazis in Ukraine then why all the destruction to infrastructure, the murders of thousands of civilians, the destruction of towns, schools and hospitals?? If as you say Ukraine had the most capable of air defences and a well equipped and dug in military , then why didnt someone tell Putin that fact?? He thought that the invasion would be over in 96 hrs. Neither you nor him can disguise the fact that they are continuing to lose this war.

          • It’s amazing what can be done in a hurry if needed.
            Starstreak being an example. Training in normal times is long. Loads of simulated launches, training launcher then training with actual systems etc. but Ukrainians were using it within days.
            For the gepard if it’s really difficult the troops going to Germany will no doubt state so and the plan will change. There might be work arounds, cheap simple upgrades, Even just using the backup manual sights will be good enough for UAV and direct fire support.

          • Seems to me the Ukrainians are doing ok with SHORAD and their Migs; plus their S-300 systems which I think are partially effective against cruise missiles. They need as many S-300 systems as can be found, but they have too many targets to protect. Ideally we should be supplying lots of Sky Sabre systems or equivalent to protect key logistics hubs; but I don’t see this happening. They need to be able to take out the cruise missile launch sites; Black Sea ships and subs.

          • Are you not related to that Sgt from Royal in Afghanistan… he didn’t like taking prisoners either…

            I know, I know, bad form and all that.

          • Certainly not mate…..I know when go pro and body can needs to be turned off!!!! 😉! I know I know, I should grow up and be more constructive like Daniele and Farouk, but I find him amusing in a sad, pathetic, no mates, low on spuds sort of way!

        • Talking about doners, the Ukrainians farmers Union would appreciate it if you can say thanks to your head sheds, for having such untrained uniformed fuckwits, that they donate all their armour when in contact, by legging it. The Ukrainians were surprised that this SOP was taught, but appreciate it anyway. The farmers just ask for a bit more diesel please for their tractors.

        • No they don’t, otherwise we’d have had thousands of reports for all the tanks and AFVs they’ve destroyed. They tend to only report if they have videos or if it’s something notable like the Mockva.

    • JIMK wrote:

      I have not heard of another aircraft or helicopter downed by a Starstreak since the one posted above just about 4 weeks ago. Has anyone else here?

      Yes, it has been reported knocking things out of the sky

      But, how are they going to travel, as a tracked vehicle, the 800 or so miles (John o’ Groats to Land’s End) to the front in Donbas given that the RuAF have last night destroyed the only railway link from Romania and key links in the railway, including its electrification, west of Kiev, plus their shortage of diesel? Any ideas?

      Really?

    • All that matters Johnski is your nation has lost 10% of its SU34 fleet lol shameful, and yet peasant Russia still has no total control of Ukraine’s airspace , the comedy show of Russia continues.

      • Interesting. My nation, which is the same as yours, doesn’t operate them. The Russians who do have around 130 so your figure is 13 shot down which seems a bit high. Of course they don’t have control of the airspace, that would be almost impossible, but so far it seems only one cruise missile has been shot down so its not too bad.

        • They don’t need to be shot down, on 80-0 hrs per annum it’s a job for your flying rapists just to take off and fly in a straight line! Lots of attrition because they at shit, and it’s hard to fly with a looted 50” plasma telly on your lap!

          • Oh, but you are good at this! Did you go to night school or is it poor old John in Magnitogorsk is just too much of an inspiration for you?

          • Night school, but some day school at Shitsands for a couple of years attached! Easy to spot bullshit, ID trends etc and johnskie in MK is like a training aid!

        • Not so bad? Surely if your the same nation as us you would want to see cruise missiles being shot down, even to the effect of no one then being killed? OOPS, as Britney says “you’ve done it again” Fucking muppet, your not even a decent troll!

        • Given 50% of your cruise missiles fail – either fail to launch, get lost, crash, etc – it’s moot how much the Ukrainians should bother with them. Especially given all the Russian jets and helicopters they can shoot down instead.

        • The ready answer is that the Ukrainians have had little to shoot at. The Russian airforce has been in a race with the ground forces to see which is the most incompetent. Your team has resorted to using long range missiles against urban targets regardless.

        • Its not to bad!! What kind of prat are you that thinks even ONE getting through onto innocent civilians is not too bad? And just out of interest where did you do your budeswher tank training?

          • I thought that as well, methinks he may have tried to cut and paste a link by some German geezer? Well, that’s what I’m thinking, but you never know when trolls post!

        • Johnski you trying to pull you are from the UK is like Mussolini claiming he was democratic , you Russians really do not get it , its sad such a people is easily lead , Russians are a very weak people like yourself.

    • Like I’ve said many times, we and NATO actually have well trained and capable logistics with decent people who know their trade, unlike you amateur Russkies! So don’t worry johnskie the platforms will be getting into theatre. As for your lack of shootdowns, oh dear another knowledge gap, as the use of starstreak isn’t just about shootdowns it’s about getting your half trained, average about 80 hours per annum flying rapists to both change their (very basic) tactics and making them even more incapable of completing their missions of killing civvies! So all the A2/AD assets are a current success.

      • Johninmk goes into the comments section like the VDV in hostomel,comes in all guns blazing gets annihilated and then goes very quiet

      • Russian equipment aircraft are quite capable. It is the bad tactics and poor execution of missions that is failing them. For example if Russia had fleets of Typhoons and F16s, the outcome would be the same. Also the lack of PGMs is a major problem to them. There is a picture in the latest edition of Air Forces Monthly (May) that shows a Russian Su25 returning to base with considerable damage from a SAM, one engine is destroyed and there is significant damage to the airframe surfaces. Also I would imagine there is a significant amount of western electronic warfare capability being deployed in Ukraine that Russia can’t counter, this is probably why the Ukraine air defence network is largely still intact. I am not really surprised that Russia have failed to gain air superiority.

        • Most of their kit isn’t capable or modern at all, and the bits that are, are operated by half trained wannabes who are an embarrassment to the trade of soldiering! And I do agree with you, but will elaborate, the Russians seem to have no concept of combined arms tactics or have any sort of skill set above basic platoon (very poor) tactics! Part of the issue is their doctrine of a very weak and inexperienced SNCO group, who cannot make (incapable of) a tactical decision, and an officer Corp who follow doctrine to the letter and are terrified of being seen to make a mistake! I have absolutely no respect for their military, they shame the trade of soldiering and I have more respect for the Taliban!

          • Given what we have witnessed during Russia’s special needs military performance, everything Airborne has highlighted is entirely correct.

          • That’s because my response was correct! Little example, your VDV, absolute embarrassment to Airborne forces the world over and the are supposed to be the best! Hilarious! Now, as you are reading my posts (but to scared to respond or challenge) any condemnation of Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine?

          • You obviously to not have good info back home to know, how badly the VDV have done , I remember your prediction that the VDV would overwhelm Kiev , HAhhhhaahhhahhhaaaajhhhhhhaaahhahah, you Russians are a simple folk aren’t you.

      • It’s good to see the Ukrainians getting more A2/AD assets. They can use the discount code ‘Putin ‘ for an extra 10 % reduction in Russian military reserves….

        • I wanted to make a comment about Putin being Sauron but he looks more like Gollum. Maybe that’s what it’s all about; he’s convinced the One Ring is in Ukraine.

          • TH was my personal favourite. Claimed his dad was in the RN but then advocated that it should have patrol ships for UK waters and nothing else.

          • I did wonder if Harold and TH were one and the same.
            Then lastly came Mike, who was also “sacked” like the others.

          • TH and Harold were definitely the same person in my view. TH turned up immediately after Harold departed (might have been the other way round) and spouted the same garbage using identical language.

          • Well im just waiting for a good battle with Uyla when shes back , although I doubt she has access now , I do remember some well known UK posters on here agreeing with her when I battled with her, that has all quieted down now to no surprise.

          • There were some saddos then mate, however we have one or two now trying to take the sad troll crown at the moment!

    • Think you might be surprised.

      Interesting to note too that Stormers can fire Martlet which could come in handy, in tests both are seen loaded into the launch tubes. Martlet would enable drones to be engaged and both are up to light armour capable and indeed Martlet specialist medium armour capable so a pretty hostile unit.

      • Martlet is better at handling drones compared with Starstreak. Don’t get me wrong, Starstreak can easily take out drones, but it is a bit of a waste. The main reason is that Martlet is a unitary warhead whereas Starstreak splits in to three darts that fly about 1.5m apart. This is great when intercepting a manoeuvring manned fighter. But against a small UAV, two darts may miss. Martlet has a combined fragmentary and shaped charge warhead, so even if it misses, there’s a very good chance the proximity fused warhead will get it in the blast radius.

      • They wouldn’t even need HETs because Stormer isn’t very heavy, just commercial low loaders used for civil construction and agricultural vehicle transport.

          • They don’t really need to be low loaded. They can easily self ferry from the border. Maintenance wise they need very little to keep them going. Just chuck in the fuel and grease the tracks and suspension arms. You may need to check the track tensioning after 200 miles or so, depending how fast they push.

      • By military train from UK. It was prax for Estonia….

        Polish Ukr border is easier – standard gauge all the way.

        However, and no shooting the messenger, Poles have been saying that the wish Johnson would STFU with regard to training operations in Poland.

        • One Polish General.

          Biden said the same thing a month ago.

          Johnson has been a little lippy, but someone is still sat on the lid to keep him in the toybox.

    • Torchwood, the UNIT offshoot, has acquired a transporter they call Time and Relative Dimension in Space, exact capacity unknown. I think it could carry multiple Stormers to the Donbas, but it’s all a bit hush hush.

      Seriously, John. If anyone on here knew details of transportation routes, they’d be mad to write about it.

    • Almost 60 days into Russia’s murderous invasion of Ukraine and not a solitary military objective achieved. Their army defeated in the North and struggling to make any advances elsewhere, thousands of its vehicles destroyed. Its airforce barely operational and only with dumb bombs. Its navy humiliated and completely out of the fight. Economically, financially , militarily, industrially and diplomatically a pariah state and will be for many years to come. Who are you to ask about ideas? You haven’t a clue.

        • I’m not so sure about that. They have performed poorly and changed their objectives, but their military is still huge. Ukraine also seem to be unable to mount the serious counterattacks needed to push Russia out.

          Ukraine’s best hope is to grind them down and make it very costly. The longer it goes on the more pressure Putin will feel at home as losses mount and their economy suffers. Hopefully then it will force him into negotiation but they may already occupy the majority of the east and south-east of Ukraine by then.

          Let’s hope Ukraine can start to push back hard but they will need tanks and aircraft for that.

          • At last a reasoned response but I hope I am not condemning you to purgatory by saying this.

            It does appear that Ukraine, as you say, has lost the ability to seriously counter attack and when they try it is very limited and gets turned back with bad casualties. This is a direct result of very heavy artillery action over weeks by the Russians combined with low levels of diesel.

            Part of the change in Russian’s tactics, especially the slow advance, is to reduce their casualties to a level that Russia will accept. Which incidentally is probably higher than we would.

            Without fuel in large amounts tanks and aircraft have a problem. Also over the front most UkAF planes that appear seem to be being downed.

            What the Urrainians have done very well seems to be their version of the Maginot Line up the demarcation line in Donbas. It and the fortified towns along it are holding up very well.

          • Oh no – hang on I’ll change my post…….

            Seriously though, why don’t you condemn the invasion?

          • It’s not a Maginot line, it’s just tough to take defended built up areas. Russia changed tactics because the original ones didn’t work and were unsustainable. We’ll have to see if the new ones work better.

            You claim Ukraine has lost the ability to counter attack, but this is now a long war. Why wouldn’t you think Kiev might also change tactics? I think Putin wants to take the south and the east and call it a victory. But that would require Kiev to give up at that point. If Ukraine digs in, the counter offensive will also be slow.

            Just like Russia left Afghanistan, eventually it will want to leave the Ukraine, maybe annexing some more land and hoping its proxy forces will hold the rest. It won’t be that easy. Maintaining the water supply to Crimea requires Russia holding Nova Kakhovka and possibly Kherson. That will require Russian occupation and a permanent presence. Without Kiev’s agreement, the war will grind on past any Russian high-water mark. Ukraine has better long term supply than Russia. Going slowly won’t do Moscow any favours.

      • That’s not true, multiple reports coming through constant line, small unit, combined arms probing attacks making progress, albeit, small.

        I wish it was true, but, a new phase in the Russian madness.

      • All sides seem to agree that there were no nukes on her. She is lying in an estimated 30-50m of water so recovery of the classified elements should not be too difficult. Whether they will recover the whole ship is unknown as is the status of any salvage mission. It is in a dangerous location so they will probably leave that until hostilities end.

        • I’m surprised as you had said you have confirmed it was in Sevastopol harbour in previous comments, saying you had it on good authority! Oh dear!

    • How far can a tracked vehicle travel before it breaks? Is 800 miles too far? I haven’t heard if the diesel shortage is still happening. I really wish Russia would give up and just leave. Ukraine is getting destroyed more each day and i just can’t see what Russia gets out of it. Even if it took half the country most of the population have left, the rest hate them. It would cost Russia billions to rebuild and take decades to get a return on investment.
      I would think Ukraine must have plans in place to move kit around. Re supply is so important also

      • Depends on the vehicles weight, what surface they are travelling over and how fast they push to get from A to B. The Russian T72 for example, is notorious for needing very little maintenance even after travelling 250 miles. But they are quite a bit lighter than an Abrams or Challenger. From my understanding the T80 is not nearly as good in this respect and the T90 is just a rebadged T72 in reality.

        They now have the same commander who was in charge of their forces in Syria take overall command. His previous exploits are he doesn’t give a damn about infrastructure or collateral damage so long as he achieves his objective. Very much in the same mould as Marshal Zhukov from what I have read.

        He did much the same in Aleppo. Completely surrounding the city to control who and what comes in and out. Then using indiscriminate artillery, rocketry and aerial bombing to properly flatten a district. This meant that there were high rise building for opponents to use for ambushes. He also used the encirclement to besiege the inhabitants thus making them use up their available resources like ammunition, food and water. From the sounds of it they are now doing the same to Mariupol, especially as the inhabitants are bottled up and taking refuge in the underground shelter below the steel mill. They will have very few options in the coming days.

        Without sounding to medieval, you could also say that Russia is ethnically cleansing the east of Ukraine. The east has a lot of mineral wealth, but also a lot of the technological centres, though I’d expect a lot are now destroyed. Russia has past and recent history of moving out large groups of ethnic peoples, to then replace them with Russians. Crimea is a good example, following the take-over, there was a very large exodus of native Ukrainians, leaving behind a majority of Russians. Around Sebastopol there has been very large scale building projects, who will be populating these new homes? If Tonto does get one of his key objectives with a land corridor from Russia to the Crimea, how many Ukrainians will be willing to stay?

        • So it’s possible for the stormer to drive to the front if needed. Who knows what Ukraine will use them for. Could be they will stay further east allowing other assets to move to where they are needed.
          I think Russia is going to push for the the land corridor to Moldova. It maybe a case of slowly grinding forward pushing for the whole of Ukraine over a number of years. Will really depend what happens over the next few weeks and the progress made

          • MS wrote:
            “”I think Russia is going to push for the the land corridor to Moldova””

            That’s a very interesting question, personally I feel that’s a bridge too far for Moscow seeing as its forces in the Kherson area are on the defensive from Ukrainian forces and are actually losing ground and for Moscow to take the overland route to Odessa which will open the door for to Moldova and Transnistria they need to take Mykolaiv, the Ukrainians have already blown the main bridge on route to Odessa at Kobleve which is covered by a high ridge around 1km away.
            Expecting a Russian attack on Odessa since day 1 Kyiv has kept the 5th (Reserve) Tank Brigade with its 90 T-72 main battle tanks based in the area, The Russians must have known this until the other week they had their naval assets sailing up and down around 90 miles off shore in which to keep the Ukrainians guessing, until 2 Anti-ship missiles made their mark. Now all Russian ships have been pulled back, but there more, Moscow has 4 Ropucha-class landing ships in the Black sea, 2 were damaged the other week and they lost a bigger alligator class landing ship in the same attack.
            Its now a game of bluff, Moscow needs to keep the 5th Tank Brigade away from the front line and so they will (and have) engineered the threat of taking Moldova which in the short term would entail an amphibious assault, of which the ability to do so Moscow has seen degraded and then there’s the threat does the Ukraine have a few Anti-ship missiles tucked away, as if they do, then that invasion fleet is going to come off worse than the Spanish armada did. The balls in Kyivs court.

          • I suspect that is why Brimstone in an anti-ship role may have far more significance than might at first be thought. If available in enough numbers on highly mobile platforms then it allows Ukraine to reduce forces local to Odessa in order to support action further East.

    • President Zelensky said in his statement that Starstreak had destroyed over a dozen Russian helicopters. And that was a while ago.
      Also it is much easier to target and destroy aircraft in Stormer than by using starstreak Manpads.
      I read a Times reporter found it easier to destroy his targets in a stormer simulation than by using the Manpads simulation.
      So expect a lot more Russian losses.

      https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-zelensky-to-meet-with-blinken-austin-in-kyiv-on-sunday

    • ‘Dear John,

      It wasn’t supposed to be like this. You said it would be a whirlwind love match, ‘I’d be yours in hours’ you said, and we, I in particular, believed you. I wouldn’t listen to those very few who had doubts about you. But I see now that I was wrong! How foolish I was to overlook those telltale details – ‘Milton Keynes is in Sussex’! But I am over you now. I’d like to stay friends but I have just washed my hair.

      P.S. I am sorry about your loss(es). Try to put a brave face on it. If not, just keep lying to yourself!’

    • Do you really think every Russian tank destroyed, every helicopter or plane shot down, every Russian killed in action, is reported?

      If the number of aircraft being shot down has fallen or even stopped altogether, that indicates that aircraft simple aren’t being used on the battlefield as much.

      It’s not disappointing; more likely is that their presence is simply denying Russian aircraft the ability to operate over certain areas so they stop bothering to; which is a positive. It means those weapons are doing their jobs without even needing to be fired.

  4. Whilst I agree in principal with donating weapons to Ukraine, I believe it is also morally wrong to not directly intervene. As Russia becomes more desperate so too does the likelihood of a nuclear escalation. There are two ways this war will end: A nuclear escalation after which all sides will back down. B a diplomatic solution, Ukraine gets split in two. East Ukraine becomes Russian controlled, West Ukraine becomes a western democracy and a NATO member. What is the solution?

    • I hope for a 3rd ending: Willing nations intervene to provide troops & air power which assist Ukr to drive all Russian forces out of Ukraine.

      • Option 4. Ukraine pushes Russia back to the separatist area and stops or back to Russia.
        After that little green men start appearing in belgarod capture the government buildings and declare the independent state of belgarod. Ukraine then says we are conducting a special operation to support the new state and protect ethnic Ukrainians in the region and deploys peacekeepers (in tanks). Putin then threatens his regional governor with a Russian weapon which explodes in his hand and bits of gun shatter his massive ego followed by his skull

  5. Ignoring John and his usual tripe a quick question?.
    Stormer with Starstreak and possibly Martlet, why retire if more than capable?..or is it the dated chassis that’s the problem?
    Also is a Boxer AD variant actually ordered as a replacement?

  6. I’m surprised nobody seems to have picked up on the fact that Putin’s facial features make him look like a rat. The shifty eye’s especially, close together – and the nose – plus a narrow skull. A disgusting and obscene war criminal who hopefully one day will answer for his crimes against humanity.

  7. I’m finding this comment section almost impossible to reply to, really want to reply to a few comments I’ve received but it’s pointless as I can’t respond in any reasonable time, and I’m not receiving email notifications

    • Mine stopped emailing when someone replied a week or two(+?) ago too.
      Seems like you have to click the bell symbol every time you post to activate what used to happen automatically.

      • There is a bell icon next to the “Submit Comment” button. You need to click the icon each time before submitting a comment. Probably done for legal reasons.

          • I only noticed the bell thing a while after notifications stopped. Although I too get that “subscribed” email, I don’t think I’ve actually had any email notifications for any replies yet, so the new system probably isn’t working as planned.

            I often forget to click the bell. When you’re busy reading & following the tread it’s easy to overlook when it all used to happen automatically.

          • Just checked my emails. Even clicking the bell button I’ve not had any replies notified. The last time was the 2nd March, so the new clunky system isn’t working. Someone need sto tell our hard working mate George.

          • Are you getting the confirmation email?

            If so then you also need to click on the “Confirm Your Subscription” link in the email.

            That then brings you back to the UKDJ website where a green confirmation notification pops up in top right of webpage.

            Email image with highlights hopefully attached.

          • No request as such. When I post, as in this response to you, I click on the bell icon just to the left of the “Submit Comment” button. This removes the strike-out line through the greyed-out bell. A short while after I post I receive the email.

  8. Surely you cannot be in the arms industry and then when there is a conflict say oh we cannot play any more. What about Swiss companies contractual obligations ? Also it’s down to holy than thou British politicians ineptitude. Russia or China was in our shoes they would send the war head to their equivalent of Porton Down and back engineer it. Chinese would do it in a week. But of course the Swiss maybe doing a Putin saying one thing and secretly doing the opposite !

    • Memories of the Belgians and their refusal to supply the UK with 7.62mm ammo during the Falkland’s War. As for little Switzerland – with their cockoo clocks etc – smiling sweetly, looking the other way and and taking the World’s dirty money for years.

  9. The more the merrier and hopefully replace them with some new Boxer variants at the same time.

    If Germany can find an extra 100 Billion euros we can do the exact same thing over the next five years.

    • Liz Truss made a speech yesterday imploring NATO and western nations to spend more and increase production to assist Ukraine. That is a rather empty request if we do not increase spending ourselves, which there is no sign of.

      • Ben Wallace was also asked on Sky News, has the transfer of NLAWS and Javelins been backfilled. His reply was that it is being done. He was also asked if as there is a major conflict has he asked for any more money. As a typical politician he spun it to: “If I was offered more money, would I take it? Yes would be the answer.” So not a direct ask to the Treasury, but a very good hint. (Please sir, can I have some more?)

        • I still can’t see it happening I’m afraid. Sunak has been asked this several times and pointed to the uplift last year. If the war drags on then maybe defence will get more during the next spending review but politically speaking the Govt and MPs will be more focused on the cost of living.

      • Hi Rob, Still not receiving email alerts!

        Words clearly need to be backed up by actions and now is the time to do it.

        More Boxer Variants, Leopard 2A7+ short-term (consider spare parts and next-gen), Marte ER for Typhoon short term and land-based anti-ship missiles like NSM ( I’ve been saying this for the past two years!) which can also be fitted to Typhoon and more of them.

        We could pass on our challenger tanks to other countries like Ukraine who would make very good use of them right now.

        UK eyes Franco-German MGCS future tank programme
        https://www.army-technology.com/analysis/uk-eyes-franco-german-mgcs-future-tank-programme/

        “The US Marine Corps (USMC) is advancing plans to develop a remotely operated coastal missile battery equipped to fire the Raytheon/Kongsberg Naval Strike Missile (NSM).”

        https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/usmc-contracts-for-nmesis-production-representative-models

        “US Marine Corps (USMC) leadership wants to spend USD1.2 billion on ground-based air defence (GBAD) systems during the next five years, with plans to begin fielding a new mobile capability to the force in 2026 that is centred around significant Iron Dome components.”

        https://www.janes.com/defence-news/c4isr-command-tech/latest/pentagon-budget-2023-usmc-details-plans-to-field-three-mric-batteries

        • You have to click on the bell icon next to the submit button, you then get an email alert if someone replies. This needs to be done every post it seems.

          I’d suggest that we may be better keeping all 227 Challys and upgrading to ‘3’ standard. In short-term keep as many as possible in Estonia, while deploying to Poland to allow them to gift the T72s.

      • Why? The UK already massively outspends other major European NATO members not just in Pounds/Euros spent but also in percent of GDP terms as the recent article on this site highlighted.

    • Since the UK government blocked the fire and rehire bill, maybe they should all be fired and rehired at P&O staff wages with benefits slashed. The savings made through that could be spent on defence.

  10. It is a great shame the UK did not develop an upgraded Stormer & keep it in production. Even with a couple of extra tons of protection, it would still be a hell of a lot lighter than Boxer or Ajax.

    • I think the company was still Alvis at this point, but I could be wrong. They developed a Scorpion/Scimitar tracked reconnaissance vehicle replacement based on the longer Stormer chassis. Mounted a 30mm bushmaster and a couple of ATGMs. Not sure why this wasn’t taken up at the time, it was at the beginning of the FRES program?

  11. Forgive me here not been army but isn’t stomer a tracked APC with starstreaker bolted on top of it, I understand we have supplied portable starstreaker already? Why would this alter the odds any more? Sorry for been stupid here but from the news starstreaker has one confirmed kill so far in Ukrainian.

    • Mobility, more ready rounds, ADAD (Air Defence Alerting Device) incorporated, automatic pointing / aiming. Did I mention mobility? Protection for crew………………………..

    • Stormer brings three things to the party. The first is that it is an armoured vehicle, providing protection against armour piercing 14.5mm bullets as well as shrapnel protection from artillery. When Russia are using a plethora of 152 and 122mm artillery along with multiple sizes of multiple launch rockets, you do not want to be in the open, if they have pin-pointed your position.

      The other main benefit that Stormer has is the Air Defence Alerting Device (ADAD). This is a derivative of the Typhoon’s PIRATE infrared search and track (IRST) sensor. It provides much better long range detection than your Mk1 eyeball can provide. Plus it works day or night and in all weathers.

      The third benefit it brings is auto-tacking. This may not sound a great deal, but needing to continuously track a target through the shoulder launcher’s eyepiece which is more than doable, but you do get fatigued carrying it on your shoulder for extended periods. With the tripod mount it’s not such a problem, you can also set up a stand alone ADAD to give you better situational awareness. Stormer combines the ADAD and auto-tracking making it significantly faster at responding to a threat.

      When the ADAD is combined with the vehicle’s codified identification friend or foe (IFF). It means the crew can set up the interception process before the target comes into range of the missile. It also means that a second missile can be assigned to the next target a lot quicker as well.

    • One reported kill.

      Not every kill will be reported, and if Russia stops operating helicopters or low-flying aircraft in an area because of SHORAD weapons like Starstreak, then it’s done its job even if they’re not fired.

  13. Brilliant, budget cuts and a lack of armoured vehicles as it is and now this. It’s literally like the government wants rid of everything this country has to defend itself.

  14. I believe that it won’t be long but this war is going to bring many nations together like never before by them helping the Ukraine army.

  15. Just been on YouTube and come across a site named Ukraine leaks, I don’t know how much is accurate but most of the videos seem to have been recorded on smartphones by people on the ground.

  16. Ukraine desperately needs game-changer modern weapons from the NATO countries. The Ukrainian military is still not receiving the heavy weapons systems Zelensky had been asking the Biden Administration and the Germans (other than M777 Howitzers and recently approved shorter-range HIMARS from the US). Scholz had been shamelessly deceiving the Ukrainians and the German leadership has utterly failed even though Chancellor Scholz has declared that he wants Ukraine to win.
    Right now all military analysts would agree that Russia’s ground maneuvering systems are failing and that’s why the Russian army is heavily reliant on the heavy artillery and its use. This is exactly what is grinding down the Ukrainian forces – Russia’s heavy use of artillery systems. The Russian forces had been bombing civilian urban sectors at the rate of industrial bombardment the EU had not witnessed since World War 2. Putin can stop this at any time, at any moment he can issue STOP order to his forces, since he is the one who ordered full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
    At this point what the US, EU and NATO needs to do is to immediately provide the Ukrainians modern heavy weapons and not just the decades old Soviet junk – T72, BMPs etc. The old Soviet junk does work, however it is still the old Soviet made junk – not a true gamechanger that we need to see on the battlefield. The US, NATO and EU need to step up the game and immediately provide the Ukrainians: longer range artillery rockets (300km range HIMARS), land based anti-ship platforms with longer-range capabilities, M1A1 / M1A2 and Leopard tanks, longer range anti-air capabilities. These systems will have an immediate impact and guarantee the Ukrainians will be victorious on the battlefield. This is the only way we can stop the Dictator Putin and his war criminal generals, oligarchs and cronies (who fund and support the war efforts). This is the only way we can stop this war – make 100% sure Ukraine wins and will be victorious on the battlefield!

  17. War is not good for any nation. Considering what is going on in Ukraine, it is like an Elephant fighting an antelope. Why can’t Ukraine be helped to also have long range missiles to reach any part of Russia too?

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