Ukrainian troops will arrive in Britain soon for training with the British military, the UK Government has confirmed.

Minister James Heappey said the UK would step up its support for Ukraine’s military, he told LBC Radio today:

“There’s 120 armoured vehicles that are in the process of being made ready. The Ukrainian troops that will operate them will arrive in the UK in the next few days to learn how to drive and command those vehicles.”

Host Nick Ferrari asked:

“That’s tremendous, so we’re going to be training Ukrainian blokes and women on our kit here in the UK?”

Heappey responded: “Yes.”

Mr Heappey also said in an interview with the BBC:

“There are more shoulder-launched anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles that we are sending as well as loitering precision munitions, and as you heard the Prime Minister say at the weekend, we’re also sending an anti-ship capability as well.”

Britain has been training Ukrainian troops for some time already, since 2015. Operation Orbital is the code-name for a British military operation to train and support the Armed Forces of Ukraine. It was launched in response to the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea.

Ukraine praises ‘wonderful, powerful’ Britain as ‘most sincere friend’

What has the UK done for Ukraine?

The following is an open-source list of aid measures.

Military Aid

  • Trained 22,000 Ukrainian troops since 2015 as part of Operation Orbital.
  • Sale of two Sandown-class minehunters.
  • £1.7bn agreement to support the acquisition of eight missile craft and one frigate.
  • Delivered “thousands” of NLAW and Javelin anti-armour weapons. Stated to be over 4,000 as of 16 March 2022.
  • £25 million in financial backing for the Ukrainian military.
  • Unspecified further military aid, on 28 February 2022.
  • Unspecified number of Javelin anti-tank missiles, on 10 March 2022.
  • The UK announced a further 6,000 defensive missiles will be sent to Ukraine, on 24 March 2022.
  • Starstreak man-portable air-defence systems.
  • UK announced the supply of an unspecified amount of “armoured vehicles and long-range artillery” to Ukraine, on 31 March 2022, on 9 April a figure of 120 armoured vehicles was given along with an unspecified number of anti-ship missiles.
  • British Army donates 84,000 helmets to Ukraine.
  • UK announced an additional £100 million in military aid, on 8 April. This includes further Starstreak missiles, 800 NLAW, Javelin anti-tank missiles & precision loitering munitions. Further Military helmets, night-vision equipment and body armour will be provided on top of 200,000 pieces of non-lethal military equipment supplied so far.
  • Deployment of RC-135W Rivet Joint surveillance aircraft to provide information on size and position of Russian forces.
  • ISTAR (intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance) support, both standalone and in partnership with the United States.

Financial Aid

  • 23 February pledged £3.5bn in UK export financing, underwrote $500m in MLDB borrowing and provided a £100m loan via the World Bank for economic development.
  • 23 March UK donated $100m directly to the Ukrainian government budget to mitigate financial pressures created by Russia’s unprovoked and illegal invasion.
  • 9 April UK increased its World Bank loan guarantees to £730m ($1bn).

Humanitarian Aid

  • £100 million of humanitarian aid announced on 23 February 2022.
  • £40 million additional humanitarian aid announced on 27 February 2022.
  • Additional £80 million in aid to help Ukraine deal with humanitarian crisis on 1 March 2022.
  • £4 million in humanitarian aid to Ukraine on 28 February 2022.
  • £4 million combined package of financial and humanitarian aid, announced on 1 March 2022.
  • UK announced “supplies of rations, medical equipment and other non-lethal military aid will also be increased” on 10 March 2022.
  • On 14 March 2022, the UK government announced plans to provide vital energy support to Ukraine through the Ukraine Electricity Network Support Taskforce. The UK donated more than 500 mobile generators.
  • £2 million in vital food supplies for areas of Ukraine encircled by Russian forces.
  • UK announced the donation of a “fleet of ambulances” to Ukraine, on 6 April 2022.
  • UK announced the amount it had donated through multilateral donor conferences for humanitarian aid totaled £394m so far on 9 April.

 

George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also works for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Peter tattersll
Peter tattersll
1 month ago

Harpoon should be taking out them rusty Russian war ships black sea.

AV
AV
1 month ago

Dont think its Harpoon we’re sending?

dan
dan
1 month ago

Biden will nix the Harpoons. Since they contain US parts Boris needs sleepy Joe’s approval.

David_s
David_s
1 month ago

Apparently Ukrainian Neptune missiles just did for the Moskva – the 12,000 ton flag ship of what the Russians call their Black sea fleet*.

(I’ve never seen a collection of rusty hulks crewed by chronic alcoholic peasants called a ‘fleet’ before, but at some points you do have to use the enemy’s terminology.)

Dern
Dern
1 month ago
Reply to  David_s

Clearly you’ve not heard the story of the 2nd Pacific Squadron… that was technically a fleet.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

Maybe we won’t just be training them to operate Mastiff. Genuinely hope we don’t find out until this war is won by Ukraine. I know in the modern age of social media it’s getting harder and harder to keep this kind of thing secret but let’s hope we are/can.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

We it could mean that we have other things in the toy boxes that haven’t made the headlines or that what is already in the toy box has added functionality?

Lets face it, the Russians are not the most tech or tactically competent opponents so decent kit that is in good shape should do the trick.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago

Think/hope your right.

Gazzer159
Gazzer159
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

In my opinion we wouldn’t need to bring Ukrainians back to the uk to train them on how to use a vehicle such as Mastiff. This feels more like we are sending something in addition to Mastiff but there has been no official word on it. Maybe something like Scimitar or Scorpions if there are any stored?

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

Its not just the passengers, you have to train the mechanics to maintain them as well.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Level 2 and Level 3 maintainer training is by far the more complex and time-consuming area of training.

Passengers (aka dismounts) won’t need any training which would take more than an hour or so – it is the crew who would need operator and Level 1 maintainer training.

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

How long do the training take? I assume it’s not something that can be done in a couple of days.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve

I left REME in 2009, so am somewhat out of touch – assuming you start with Ukrainian army vehicle mechanics (VM) who have finished basic national trade training at least, then you need a module specific for the Mastiff vehicle – a thorough module might take a month given language problems, but I expect as time is of the essence they will cut it down to 10 days or 2 weeks – or mayb ea bit less. Vehicle electrics will have to be covered too – REME has not had a seperate trade for that for decades and I don’t… Read more »

Jack
Jack
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

Exactly. I hope we give the some GMLRS so the Ukrainians can shower the Russians with some steel rain. Apparently, Eastern Ukraine is wide open countryside so it would be ideal for wiping out concentrations of Russian armour, similar to what we saw in the deserts of Iraq in the first Gulf war.

Ian M
Ian M
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack

M28 bomblet rounds no longer in UK MOD inventory. M31 Guided Unitary rounds only.

Jack
Jack
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian M

Snowflakes: 1
Defence interests: 0

Ian M
Ian M
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack

M28’s accurate to a football pitch, M31 accurate to 0.5m at 85 Km. No snowflakes here.

James
James
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack

Funny joke as the bomblets fall like snowflakes!!

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  James

More like really big exploding hailstones.

Mark B
Mark B
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack

I think we score on moral high ground though …

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack

I’d rather be a snowflake than take Russian example of clusterf**k the area.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Yes indeed.

Jack
Jack
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian M

Do the US or other operators still have them ? Maybe we could buddy up to help Ukraine.

Ian M
Ian M
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack

The US declined to ratify the treaty banning them.

grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  Ian M

so thats a yes then…

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack

Anything we send them won’t be replaced, and as we are lacking already in that area, I can’t see us giving them any GMLRS.

I assume we gave them MLAW on the basis the army has been cut so significantly since the purchase, that the logic was we didn’t need as many in supply. A decision that is likely reversed now they have been seen to be so effective.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

What kit do we have stored ? CVRT ? Then what about Striker/Swingfire ? The speculation is fascinating but endless.

Gazzer159
Gazzer159
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

This is just it, the MOD don’t share equipment that’s in storage. There was FOI request that mentioned that they store stuff that’s still within its in service dates. After seeing the 50 leopard 1’s being handed over and BMPs already being sent it would be interested to see what the UK does seeing as we are one of the leaders in providing military aid

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

What they need is large quantities of ex Soviet stuff they are trained to use immediately and which uses Russian ammunition. As many T72s as many can be got there + spares. Don’t really understand the delay in getting the Polish T72s to Ukraine. Plus long range heavy Soviet artillery – 122mm and 152mm. I think the UK is brokering the deals needed. Farouk has posted that the Russians are gathering missiles – their equivalent of GLMRS. These are a real problem and could be decisive. Ukraine has no equivalent. The launchers are mobile. Without something like Typhoon with Spear… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

Agreed. It’s impossible to know what is impossible to know. The only people with current knowledge of what is in storage will have signed the official secrets act. Potentially we could be training them on any system that has left service within the last 20 ? 30 ? or more years.

Last edited 1 month ago by David Steeper
Simon
Simon
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

It would be interesting to know what is tucked away. trouble is would we still have all the spares for the equipment ? There some very old stuff that pop up at WITHAM SPECIALIST VEHICLES so maybe

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

Store stuff still in service date, is surely spin for we haven’t stored anything as it’s all out of service date or would be active service.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

It could be that the Ukrainian response to overwhelming Russian bombardment in Donbas might benefit from a kind of guerrilla approach: 100 squads in a Mastiff with Javelins, Switchblade and Starstreak and maybe towing an artillery piece?

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

The Ukrainians have shown conclusively just how effective that kind of warfare is. I’m not sure that would be the best use of Mastiff they’re probably best suited to theatre movement by road of troops and essential supplies. Something like Jackal would suit them down to the ground for shoulder launched weapons teams.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper
bill masen
bill masen
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Asymetric warefare is very effective against forces of the type and structure of the Russian military. Fast moving motorised Inf and Armoured Inf should be able to devastate large russian formations PROVIDING the sky is kept clear of Russian aviation.

Thorsten W
Thorsten W
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Keep in mind the there are no woods in the SE. Not like on the way to Kyiv.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

We won’t have stored any Striker – they were sold from about 2003 onwards, many being in private collector’s hands.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Thanks.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

They were a brilliant bit of kit, reliable CVR(T) platform with 5 Swingfire (4,000m range) on the roof in raisable launch bins and 5 reloads inside.

A real Strike weapon system of which all 48 were operated by RA (surprisingly) from ISD in 1976 then transferred to RAC to equip formation recce regiments.
Never replaced, astonishingly.

Crazy to think the Ajax family was never conceived of as having a similar variant – were recce forces hoping to kill tanks at 4,000m with a 40mm gun!!

Matt C
Matt C
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

I suspect it is for faster deployment time. As it is much faster to ferry people than armoured vehicles, Ukrainian troops can train on vehicle sets in the UK while the donated equipment is on its way to Ukraine. This would cut at least a few weeks off the timeline versus only beginning training after the donated equipment has arrived in-theatre.

Pete
Pete
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

Could be training on the rumoured brimstone Sea Spear supply using some sort of hastily put together land platform (mastiff?) that MBDA have been working up for Ajax for future land launch Overwatch Capabilty project.

https://youtu.be/kNGLC1SbVyQ

AV
AV
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

Totally agree. Bravo UK!
More likely Martlet training and ‘other’ unspecified systems ( loitering kit etc ) for the training 😉
No way this is for Mastiff alone.

Last edited 1 month ago by AV
Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

Mastiff, if issued to UK spec, is sophisticated in places. But it would make more sense to ship the 120 Mastiff to Poland and train the UKR there.

Mike
Mike
1 month ago
Reply to  Gazzer159

Scimitar….I thought we were trying to help 🙂

David
David
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Give them Exactor and replace it with something else. Mounted on 4 x 4s they might be able to get mobile and close enough to take out some of that artillery the Russians will hammer them with.

Marked
Marked
1 month ago

Sleepy Joe Biden will be wetting himself more than normal now! God forbid we upset that nice reasonable Mr putin 🙄

James H
James H
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Sorry? America has been supplying Arms for years

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  James H

You must have missed the sight of him panicking about anything that putin could see as an escalation then. This is taking ukraine troops out of country to train them. A step up from what’s been done since the invasion started.

Hunter
Hunter
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

The USA has brought over Ukranian servicemembers to CONUS to train on the switchblade system.

patC
patC
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

There are Ukrainians in the US right now being trained on Switchblade.

Jack
Jack
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Taking the threat of nuclear war seriously may not be such a bad idea.

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack

Rendering the free world open to nuclear blackmail is a bad idea.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

I’m afraid that ship sailed a long time ago. There are too many nuclear powers now. Putin is a female snake on heat. Biden is right to tread carefully.

Last edited 1 month ago by Paul.P
David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

LOL thank you for that disturbing image of Putin ! 😯

Martin
Martin
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

That’s been the case since 1949. I can’t think of a single time a western politician ever mentioned the use of nuclear weapons yet it’s been the first thing out of every Russian and Soviet leader since Stalin.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

The free world? 😂 you jest you jest 😁

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  James H

Obama/Biden forbid the sale of lethal weapons to Ukraine. It was only Trump that reversed that stupid policy and ok’d the transfer or Javelins, ect in 2018. Facts matter.

Pete
Pete
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Lol…you think that will keep him awake…US is already training Ukranians in the US, and French media is full of this…. https://www.indianarrative.com/world-news/elite-us-uk-forces-in-ukraine-since-beginning-of-conflict-with-russia-says-french-daily-163587.html

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  Pete

Nothing keeps Biden awake… waking him up is the challenge…

Marius
Marius
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Correct! 😄

AV
AV
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

😂😂😂😂👍

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Some news outlets now say Biden can’t even dress himself anymore. How did America end up with this old fool?? lol

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  dan

It seems that after taking a phone call from Zelensky the ‘old fool’ has authorized the sending of 18 US 155mm howitzers with 40,000 rounds, 200 M113 APCs, 100 utility vehicles, more Switchblades and Javelins, 10 counter artillery radars and 2 air surveillance radars.

Mac
Mac
1 month ago
Reply to  Pete

I don’t believe any of that nonsense about SAS/Delta being active in Ukraine. Just a Tabloid fantasy.

Jack
Jack
1 month ago
Reply to  Mac

This is precisely the role SOF exist for. Tabloid fantasy ? A French intel officer talking to a French journo about US/UK ops is not the usual UK red top waffle.

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  Mac

Me neither. Biden went full on panic over the thought of providing soviet era jets. There’s no way he would sanction troops on the ground, even if confined to a training or advisory role.

JamesD
JamesD
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Pretty naive to think there wouldn’t be special forces operating in western Ukraine at least, and plenty of ex UK forces already there

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 month ago
Reply to  JamesD

Assumed Russia targetted Yavoriv, partly due to their presence.

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  JamesD

Ex forces is a whole different matter, there’s thousands from across the globe there. I don’t believe Biden would dare risk having serving US forces in country though.

Pete
Pete
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

He has.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

America is right to be nervous, if any country is going to push Russia to nuclear war its America. European countries can get away with more.
America has done way more for Ukraine under the current administration than it did under the previous administration.

Esteban
Esteban
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

After they were invaded, yes. The previous admin was the one that originally started delivering arms.

Pete
Pete
1 month ago
Reply to  Esteban

US sold $1.2 billion worth of kit to Ukraine in 2013 to 2014 timescale.. and more each year after that
https://tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/weapons-sales

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  Pete

Obama/Biden forbid the sale of “lethal” weapons to Ukraine. That kit is mostly just vehicles, medical stuff, ect. Facts matter.

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

LOL! Its was Obama/Biden that forbid America from arming Ukraine and that stood by and did nothing when Putin first invaded Ukraine. Trump reversed that policy and ok’d the transfer of lethal weapons to Ukraine. Biden did nothing till he saw Boris grabbing the headlines with weapon transfers. Biden is still scared to death of Putin and wets his diaper thinking of WW3. lol

dan
dan
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Biden panics when his Depends gets full. lol

Expat
Expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Mac

Hmm not so sure you always here about the daring raids etc but there main role is intelligence gathering, undetected, something they’re very good at.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Mac

Who knows if they are in ukraine. Certainly not some French dude. The lines get blurred as you can have intelligence assets under the security services which can include army units as well as civilians.
Maybe in 30 years time channel 5 will make a documentary about it

AV
AV
1 month ago
Reply to  Mac

Possibly correct 😉
Loads likely just over the border in adjoining countries offering ‘assistance’.

Pete
Pete
1 month ago
Reply to  Mac

I can assure you i have every reason to understand it’s true!

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 month ago
Reply to  Marked

Today the news opened with reports of a chemical weapons attack from drones on a town – Biden said such an attack would be met in kind – where and when did Biden’s troops fire chemical weapons at Russian troops – I missed that story

Daniel
Daniel
1 month ago

“loitering precision munitions” – I’ve seen the coverage on the US sending switchblade, it looks like impressive kit but what does this mean in a UK context?

Last edited 1 month ago by Daniel
Mac
Mac
1 month ago
Reply to  Daniel

Maybe they don’t want to publicly say what they are. As well as sending Starstreak AA missiles in a very public way, apparently, on the QT, we sent them shoulder fired Martlet missiles as well.

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  Mac

There won’t be any QT behind this. Ukraine troops are playing the social media game, anything we donate will be instantly posted.

Daniel
Daniel
1 month ago
Reply to  Mac

To answer my own question, after brief research it appears the British Army purchased a number of Switchblade systems in 2021. This seems to have been news which passed me by, but that now seems like the logical candidate for this transfer.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 month ago
Reply to  Daniel

Yeah it was a small purchase for evaluation, UK can always order more and I understand the Ukrainians will be fielding the 600 before the US does as it hadn’t received any serial production units as of a month ago. Though there may be non-publicly announced British equipment of similar capability as well.

AV
AV
1 month ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

In field evaluation? 😉👍

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  Daniel

Agree Daniel. UK purchased some reasonable numbers of Switchblade 300 back in 2020 I think. There is a newer more capable 600 model that we probably have and this has “freed up” the donation to Ukraine for the 300.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Different roles, the 300 is like a guided mortar round (around $6000 a pop but will likely come down to around $3000 with increased production). 600 is anti-tank but too expensive to use against infantry (no published price yet but likely considerably more expensive as it uses the same warhead as a hellfire missile which costs $150,000.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Daniel

Perhaps they and no doubt other non advertised weapons were for the special forces and are in the inventory and now being made available. Also doesn’t hurt to keep the Russians guessing esp in terms of ‘anti ship’ missiles which may become crucial vital if Odessa is targeted for occupation.

Mac
Mac
1 month ago

These vehicles are going to need a huge amount of logistical support, spare parts and mechanics, familiar with them enough to keep them going in a war zone. Learning how to drive them is only the tip of the iceberg, really.

Last edited 1 month ago by Mac
David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  Mac

Set up a REME LAD on the Polish Border.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

Yep thats my view. Position logistics support hubs on the NATO side of the border. Dare Putin and his crappy military to try to take them out without resorting in a massive NATO strategicair campaign that would bomb Russias military back into the stone age.

grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

’tis a fine that would be walked there….just saying.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I suspect Russia would go nuclear in some way if NATO started to attack Russian military units on Russian soil. They have more or a hair trigger around the use of tactical nuclear weapons.

Esteban
Esteban
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Very big talk…. Can you back it up?

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  Esteban

Can you disprove it? That is the issue with MAD, you can’t risk it. One nuke hitting London and you have 5-10m deaths, it’s not worth the gamble.

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago

As said on the other thread, assuming this war drags out bring their Navy lads a d engineers over and start reactivating / training on Monmouth and Montrose. The Ukrainians need some naval punch.

AdjectiveNoun
AdjectiveNoun
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

I’m not sure they could even get them back to Ukraine. Turkey has shut the straits to belligerent warships that aren’t homeported in the Black Sea I believe.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 month ago
Reply to  AdjectiveNoun

You can declare a homeport in the region, Russia did the same early on. However I wouldnt like to sail a ship into that sea as with observers in Istanbul they would always see you coming and be prepared to pick you off one by one the moment you left Turkish waters.

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  AdjectiveNoun

Turkey has shut the Bosporus to all naval ships, regardless of homeport, apart from its own.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Yes maybe they don’t want the Russkie rust buckets sailing down the Bos filled with stolen loot.

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Those “rust buckets” seem to be launching Kalibres quite successfully.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

‘successfully’: Against civilians.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Anyone can launch missiles at civvies! But now your answering me, any condemnation of Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine?

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Pride before a fall eh. Painful I know but that’s what comes with being smug.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Hey Johny bot we haven’t seen Kayaker avatar used for a while, when you going to get him back out?

DRS
DRS
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

If we can get the harpoon to work based on a test laptop plugged into a testbed launcher like solution that would be good …

Can the UK supply anti-ship missiles to Ukraine? | Navy Lookout

Means we have even less for us but if these are stock that are out of certification dates still worth lobbing at Russian boats as will keep them back/away from the action and not able to resuply.

The biggest thing is we could work out the Ukrainians how to resupply Mariupol but that seems like it is about to go.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  DRS

The latest US aid package includes armed Mi-17 helos. I think helicopter has been the only route for resupply of Ukrainian troops in Mariupol.
The Russian have split the Ukraine forces into 2 pockets, one of which looks like it has run out of ammo and surrendered.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

2 frigates wont be enough. The Russian black sea fleet would sink them in quick order.

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Not if ”our” shore based missiles can vectored onto them. That then opens the Russians up to the ship based harpoons as well. I’m not Navy tis true, but, I seem to remember some upstart colonists handed the Royal Navy its arse just over 200 years ago 😉

Should the Russian Navy be as dire as the Airforce and Army, miracles could happen 🙂

Of course, the other course is attack on their SLOCs in the North Sea, it would draw off a huge effort from the Russians.

Choices, choices.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

I’m not sure handing them their arse is fair. The US navy managed individual victories against individual RN ships that were essentially out numbered two to one. An RN 5 rate was a completely different beast to an American heaven frigate, which was essentially constructed as effectively a single deck ship of the line. In essence the American navy gained local superiority and if the RN 5 rate was unable to evade it was done for. When the RN and US Navy engaged with similar rated ships the RN tended to win, a good example is USS Chesapeake vs HMS… Read more »

OldSchool
OldSchool
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

If you mean the War of 1812 then no. The US won a few ship on ship battles – and lost some too. They were also somewhat successful early on with privateers. But when the RN applied the blowtorch it crippled the US and practically bankrupted it. The war was a US strategic failure tbh.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  OldSchool

Indeed one has to remember it was the Americans who sued for peace in that war they knew that it was only going to get worse from then on.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

I think you are buying into the US version of the War of Independence, it really isn’t, like so much of ‘victor’ orientated writings the accurate version at all, indeed far from being a Colonial victory it was a combined victory of the French, Spanish and Dutch who declared war on Britain keeping the navy Europe focused combined with the shocking state of navy ships neglected after the game changing victories of the seven years war (which gained the Americas for the colonists and thereafter the cost involved in securing it that caused the later war) that fooled us into… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

They would never get much beyond the Sea of Marmara. As soon as they came out of the straits and beyond the Turkish waters the Black Sea fleet would murder them. Any navel engagement in such restricted waters against an enemy that would know exactly when and where you would appear is just the navel equivalent of walking battalions of men across no mans land into heavy machine guns. There are a few reasons that the great powers agreed to the montreux convention. One was forcing the Black Sea would simply be a quick way to loose whatever navel forces… Read more »

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

People forget that Gallipoli was the direct result of the failure of the RN to to force passage through the states as it claimed would be a doddle… bit like Putin really. The shore batteries caused considerable damage to the fleet and forced it to retreat leading to the hastily put together plan B of a land invasion. Some interesting photos exist of warships being recovered under fire, it was nearly a catastrophe bar some considerable heroics. Plan C was the later Greek campaign, none of them went as planned and Churchill lost all credibility as a result.

Jay R
Jay R
1 month ago

“loitering precision munitions” Could this be ALARM for use on Su-27?

ALARM is no longer in use in RAF, but I believe still in production for Saudi Arabia.

Steve
Steve
1 month ago
Reply to  Jay R

Could be absolutely anything. This is polcitjcal talk. The US give javlin, we give mlaw, the US gives stinger we give starstreak, the US gives switchblade we have the be seen to give something similar.

Jack
Jack
1 month ago

Anti-tank missiles and anti-aircraft missiles but he said anti-ship “capability”, what does that mean ? Call me a cynic but i have learned that what a politician doesn’t say is often as important as what they do say and they choose their words very carefully.

Last edited 1 month ago by Jack
Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Jack

Trouble is I have seen so many errors and misunderstandings in statements from both politicians and civil servants that it wouldn’t surprise me if they consider Martlet an anti ship missile and I guess as the major concern after Mariupol goes will be a attempt to attack Odessa from the sea they certainly could be very effective against landing craft so in their eyes fit that bill.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 month ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Fire anything out to sea and it can be an anti ship missile.
Hopefully it has the Russians as puzzled as everyone else.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Martlet would certainly be lethal against landing ships I suspect esp if in swarms.

Rob
Rob
1 month ago

The thing we should be training them on is GMLRS. Very good for counter battery work.

Ian M
Ian M
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob

Apart from the fact we don’t have any to spare. An M31 in airburst mode, vertical trajectory in the middle of a battery…….Ouch!

Marked
Marked
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob

Shame we got rid of the most useful payload though, the cluster munitions were fantastic for taking out artillery batteries, a wide area being rendered incompatible with life.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob

It’s being reported that the US is sending 18 155mm howitzers and 40,000 rounds in Biden’s latest aid package.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Now that will be wonderful in giving the Russians a taste of their own medicine.

farouk
farouk
1 month ago

Talk about sending coal to Newcastle:(as reported by the Guardian) Russia ‘using weapons smuggled by Iran from Iraq against Ukraine’ Russia is receiving munitions and military hardware sourced from Iraq for its war effort in Ukraine with the help of Iranian weapons smuggling networks, according to members of Iranian-backed Iraqi militias and regional intelligence services with knowledge of the process. RPGs and anti-tank missiles, as well as Brazilian-designed rocket launcher systems, have been dispatched to Russia from Iraq as Moscow’s campaign has faltered in the last month, the Guardian has learned. An Iranian-made Bavar 373 missile system, similar to the… Read more »

Opera Snapshot_2022-04-12_150551_www.theguardian.com.png
Last edited 1 month ago by farouk
Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

Two things.
1st stuff in western arsenals is starting to run dry and all we are doing is donating, Russians must be burning through stock and theyve already asked China, Syria, India, North Korea and all their client states for help with munitions and so far only ones who have said they will help resupply Russia is North Korea.
2nd, if this is demilitarising the Middle East getting weapons out of the hands of terrorists this is an indirect good thing to come out of the war.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago

Whatever assets we are now training them in, and depending how long this goes on for, be prepared for British Army/NATO logistics, training and R&R hubs being based in Poland and Romania. This is an opportunity to cause Russia such attrition in men and machines that they become a zero conventional threat in the future (although going on there performance thus far they are pretty much there already). Big question, do we have serving SF assets in place, to assist and guide Ukranian forces in certain niche areas, not at this time, however do we have a number of recently… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

Bravo.

I’d say we do. All well to the west and in regards to SF possibly a la Increment/E Sqn / UKN style. Deniable and not uniformed.
“Contractors”

As for our overall contribution, quite a list which puts others to shame.

Most of our help can be done without people in country though, with targeting and real time intel stuff. Wyton would be a fascinating place to be right now.

Glory to Ukraine.

Crabfat
Crabfat
1 month ago

Yeah – there was a Rivet Joint over Romania this afternoon, no doubt having a look at Odessa and Crimea.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 month ago

Yes, even from down here in 🇦🇺 I’m damn proud of 🇬🇧 support for 🇺🇦, it’s president, people and armed forces! Let’s hope Ukraine’s forces can hang on in Mariupol and successfully counter-attack in the East and even in Crimea with Western support. And blow that bloody Kerch bridge off its hinges!!

Jon
Jon
1 month ago

The caption on the main photo mentions British troops in the Ukraine in 2015, and shows a Ukrainian BTR-4. Does this mean that Ukraine has previously trained our soldiers on their armoured vehicles?

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 month ago
Reply to  Jon

After the 2014 war the UK and US helped rebuild the Ukrainian army, training tens of thousands in basic and advanced infantry tactics.

Expat
Expat
1 month ago
Reply to  Jon

More about tactics than equipment at that time I suspect.

farouk
farouk
1 month ago
Reply to  Jon

Jon wrote: The caption on the main photo mentions British troops in the Ukraine in 2015, and shows a Ukrainian BTR-4. Its a BTR 60 and I’d hazard a guess at a BTR-60PB. The easiest way to recognise the BTR 60 is look at the exhaust if it is huge and at 45 degs it’s a 60 it also has no side doors The 70 has one side door (between 2nd and 3rd wheel) and the exhaust is less sloped The 80 has 2 side doors (Both sides between 2nd and 3rd wheel) and the exhaust is horizontal The 90… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by farouk
Jon
Jon
1 month ago
Reply to  farouk

And I, for one, appreciate learning from your expertise. Thank you.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Jon

Yes, it’s fantastic isn’t it. I’m naff at Russian vehicles, wouldn’t know at T64 from a T72, never mind BTRs. Not so bad at aircraft!

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago

Difficult in Ukraine, the Ukrainians have blown them all up…

farouk
farouk
1 month ago

Daniele wrote:

wouldn’t know at T64 from a T72, 

T64 has 6 very small wheels, T72 has 6 much larger ones
T64 has exhaust at rear, T72 has its over the last wheel on the left side of the vehicle

Last edited 1 month ago by farouk
Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago

Can someone enlighten me as to what the Mastiffs will bring to the party?

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Very good protection against ATGW’s and IED’s. Good protection against artillery fire. Downside poor cross country performance.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Thx. I don’t know anything about the off road terrain in the various regions of Ukraine at this time of year. Just speculating if it would be limited to on road use in benign areas like north of Kyiv to release IFVs for Donbass or whether it’s carrying capacity could bring some value when the battle for Donbass hots up; agile squads with Javelins, towed artillery, logistics, ambulance….

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Think of them as very well protected trucks. Spot on about taking on some of the jobs of APC’s and leaving them free to do there stuff closer to the frontlines.

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I see them bringing utility to the Northern sector if the lull persists. Of course, if the Ukrainians put these in harms way, they’ll go the way of all the humvees that were gifted to them and, more importantly, the trained blokes inside; just like the Battle of Britain, Spitfires were replaceable, the pilots were not.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  David Barry

Yeah.

grizzler
grizzler
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

cake & streamers maybe…oh and a few party hats ..no kazoo’s though- too noisy.

JamesD
JamesD
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Rather take my chances in one of these over the Hilux and transits some of them have been rolling around in, probably preferable to a bmp as well

Tomartyr
Tomartyr
1 month ago

Maybe it’s time to start sending aid to Georgia, and really get this ball rolling?

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 month ago
Reply to  Tomartyr

Yes, Georgia looks very vulnerable squeezed in between Russia, the Stan’s and Iran. How could you get any aid to them? Via air?

Simon
Simon
1 month ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

ins’t the current Georgian government pro Russian?

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Simon

No, russia has done the same as they did with Ukraine and supported/actively nipped of but of the County. Georgia is a real minnow that is strategically isolated and so has to run a knife as edge there is no one to back them up.

Last edited 1 month ago by Jonathan
Simon
Simon
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

thanks

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Simon

As it prevented Russia from crossing its territory to support Armenia not long back (the only real way to do so) I would suggest not. As it, like Ukraine for some time has expressed the desire to join NATO without any cancellation of that desire as far as I know in recent times I again suggest still not a fan of Russia. And as they well know they Would likely be one of the next targets to solve the Armenia problem above I am sure they are relieved at the present situation not going as planned.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 month ago

Think Sea Brimstone has been a matured design for quite some time. Ideal for the littoral if it could be brought online quickly enough, I’d have though. Powerful warhead. Also, have heard it can counter not just vessels but also their missiles, but no knowledge.
Similarly, envisage Ceptor could be a possibility. Both can be defined as defensive, within the current western RoE, it appears. Not so sure to what extent Harpoon would tip that balance, though I’ve no issue with its use, if so decided.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Agree, the naval version of Brimstone is a tested, mature design and was proposed as part of the Uk- Ukraine deal for Babcock to build Barzan class ‘missile’ boats. Worth noting that Sea Spear as it is called has a 16kg warhead versus the parent Brimstone which has a 6kg warhead.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-in-talks-to-sell-missiles-in-first-arms-deal-with-ukraine-7fmdddsmk

Simon
Simon
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

A Russian ship has just been hit 25 miles off the coast

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Simon

Yeh, saw that. Ukraine is claiming it was hit by 2 of their Neptune AShM. Good for them.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
22 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Sorry for late a knowledge. Missed reply for some reason.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
22 days ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Here’s the ‘c’!

Hamish
Hamish
1 month ago

I hope they don’t mean AS90 given hardly any of them are working anymore and most are sat in the sheds with no engines or spares.

TypewriterMonkey
TypewriterMonkey
1 month ago

Great news. And finally we are willing to arm them with heavier weapons to defend themselves. They need long range artillery and anti-ship missiles. They should have had them a long time ago.

Sooty
Sooty
1 month ago

Ant-ship missiles are mentioned. Which anti-ship missiles? Are these the Harpoons the UK is going to withdraw without immediate replacement? If so, might our politicians realise that it is a capability worth retaining after all?

Quentin Drury
Quentin Drury
1 month ago
Reply to  Sooty

I wonder if Ukraine can rig some Brimstone’s or even Martlet’s onto those Turkish drones but I believe their payload is only 55kg? I think we’d all like to see that 8 mile long Russian convoy attacked and shot up to pieces as well as any Russian ships lying around.

stevethemanc
stevethemanc
1 month ago

Proud of my Country again, keep it up Boris.

AV
AV
1 month ago
Reply to  stevethemanc

👍👍👍👍

stevethemanc
stevethemanc
1 month ago

Worried about that Chinese delivery to the Serbians, any thoughts?

Paul T
Paul T
1 month ago
Reply to  stevethemanc

Serbia chose a Chinese SAM System which was being delivered.

stevethemanc
stevethemanc
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul T

Relief, I thought they were fueling the fire, thanks.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  stevethemanc

Don’t see any problem in this at all. Serbia wants to join the EU even though it is trying to sit on the fence between East and West, Understandably in my view they may have had an appalling past but Govts there have tried to change their image turned over the war criminals and have been treated somewhat poorly over Kosovo in my view. Indeed even Western Govts have criticised Kosovo’s action of late in trying to restrict ethnic Serbians voting rights. Serbia understandably is trying to remain on ‘friendly’ terms with anyone who can support it but are not… Read more »

Andy P
Andy P
1 month ago

It really does make you wonder about what these Ukrainian lads are getting trained on. While it could be as simple as how to drive a Mastiff, I’m intrigued what anti ship stuff we’re giving/selling them.

As a flippant aside, I’m looking forward to the Auf Wiedersehen Pet reboot.

bill masen
bill masen
1 month ago

Hmm Ukranians fighting on home turf with the locals on their side, playing asymetric warfare against slow moving armoured columns. Shoot n scoot could cause havoc to the Ruskies. Even with DOUBLE the numbrs of troops the Russians cannot hold or control the Steppes. Providing Russia top cover is weak the defenders have the advantage, they can choose the killing ground.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  bill masen

Both Poland and Slovakia are willing to donate serviceable Mig 29s. The issue seems to be a delay in the US approving the backfilling of them with already agreed F-16s.
https://www.politico.eu/article/slovakia-mig-jets-to-ukraine-prime-minister-eduard-heger-bratislava/
I see no reason for example why Slovakia should not transfer their entire inventory of 12 immediately and have it refilled from Poland which would not miss them.
Here’s hoping these deals are quietly happening behind the scenes.

AV
AV
1 month ago

Side note: anyone else not getting email notifications when a reply is posted on the comments?
Remedy or solution appreciated 👍

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 month ago
Reply to  AV

Nope me neither.

David Barry
David Barry
1 month ago
Reply to  AV

Me neither

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  AV

Ditto. Cost of living crisis and Brexit I expect. 😉

Last edited 1 month ago by Paul.P
AV
AV
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

At least I’m not alone 👍😉

Peter tattersll
Peter tattersll
1 month ago

EU been a waste of time no real union some helped others very look warm . Nothing like a true union more like a extremely expensive talk shop .

David
David
1 month ago

Could the loitering munitions be the Fire Shadow weapons delivered by MBDA in about 2012 but never taken into service?

JohninMK
JohninMK
1 month ago

This morning the Russian MoD announced that 1026 Ukrainian marines surrendered in Mariupol following a failed breakout attempt.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

You must be delighted Ivan.

Simon
Simon
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

After deploying a huge force, which has taken six weeks to get this far and levelled most of the city, all to get rid of some people who the rest of the population want to be liberated from supposedly

AV
AV
1 month ago
Reply to  JohninMK

I wonder what a Ukrainian marine would do with you Johnny?

Peter tattersll
Peter tattersll
1 month ago

Ukraine tell German president to keep away not welcome in Ukraine .

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago

The BBC is reporting on the latest US aid package to Ukraine. Talk of ‘nrw capabities’ for the upcoming wider fight. From the BBC:
‘ The shipment includes helicopters, backpack-worn Switchblade drones – also known as “kamikaze drones” – and howitzer cannons, armoured vehicles and other supplies ‘

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

President has been in talks with top US defence suppliers to discuss what can be manufactured and supplied. Let’s hope a lot.