Steel has been cut today on Warspite, the third of four new Dreadnought Class submarines, currently in build at BAE Systems’ Barrow-in-Furness site.
Warspite is the third of four Dreadnought Class ballistic missile submarines being designed and built by BAE Systems.
Due to enter service from the early 2030s, the boats will carry the UK’s nuclear deterrent and be the biggest, most powerful and technically advanced submarines ever delivered to the Royal Navy.
Construction of the first two boats, Dreadnought and Valiant, is already well underway.
Steve Timms, Managing Director of BAE Systems’ Submarines business, said:
“Today’s milestone is a really significant moment for the thousands of employees here at BAE Systems and across the submarines enterprise who are working together to deliver the Dreadnought Class. We are immensely proud of the role we play in delivering this truly national endeavour for the Royal Navy and our contribution to protecting national security.”
Attending today’s ceremony, Defence Procurement Minister Alex Chalk KC, said:
“Our nuclear deterrent protects every UK citizen from the most extreme threats, every minute of every day, and progress on the Dreadnought Class is crucial to maintaining our national security. This milestone is a significant step forward in the Dreadnought programme, supporting thousands of jobs and apprenticeships across the country, and protecting the UK and our allies for decades to come.”
This sub looks very futuristic and a bit ‘Voyage To The Bottom of The Sea’ if my memory serves me right.
Except for the lack of windows 😃
Cheers CR
😀
Minus the flying sub Maurice
Not too far off!
Perhaps one more generation (20-25 yrs.) w/ combination UUV/UAV? Interesting how often science fiction transforms into science fact, over an extended timeframe. 🤔
Agreed!
No windows though
Maybe on the Columbia 😀
During my time in the Barrow yard it became the thing to call the various technical offices after Barrow-built boats rather than acronyns for the departments that occupied them. When some new offices were built down the side of the old inclined building berths (“slipways”), some new names were required. The office at the far end, overlooking the water, was occupied by a team headed by a Sci-Fi fan who stuck a picture of Seaview, similar to the above, on the door and started calling the office “Seaview” – the name stuck!
Interesting story and quite a history too!
“The shipyard at Barrow–in-Furness was founded in 1871, and over the past 150 years, it has produced some of the most significant marine vessels.”
Apparently the ‘wings’ were added as a modification to the original model design for “Freudian anatomically analogous issues”…
Just needs windows at the front…
How can the sub see the enemy subs without any windows🙈
the photo above with the x design rear control surfaces appose to + makes her look like a F-22
The X form tail is more complex and expensive to build but it reduces drag, is quieter and gives increased agility. They look cool too.
The design looks great. I didn’t realise they were up to the third boat already. It’s a shame we couldn’t acquire an extra or see one of the four dreadnoughts turned into a cruise missile, drone, or special forces carrier. H I Sutton did a concept on the Vanguard class in this configuration. He made this in paint.
SSN(R) would be a better choise
Something like this (Link) Same guy that did the concept mothership above.
Yeah but it will take two decades to get any in numbers.
The Common Missile Compartments are flexible enough for other vertical launch options, as I recall.
Third attempt at posting, this time without the link! (awaiting approval) MBDA NCM in details “During mission preparation, The flight profile of the missile (waypoint, altitude, speed etc) is optimized to make the NCM low observable (by making it fly low in valleys for example). It is typically prepared at headquarter level and then passed on to the frigate or submarine. But a dedicated workstation allows for mission preparation onboard the vessel too. Once the missile is launched however, it is not possible to update or change the flight path or the target. The NCM launch phase starts with the… Read more »
Is this in a context that it could be placed in the VLS?
Very good question, I’m not sure if that is the case, but it might be possible.
Can fit Sylver VLS apparently which raises a few potential questions I guess. Also Is there any indication that this may be acquired and does it have any potential overlap with the Anglo-French Future Cruise/Anti-Ship which might account for the proposed optimistic time frame?
Found it! The Anglo-French Future Cruise/Anti-Ship missile is intended for surface fleets and air launch only, but I could be wrong.
I have no idea if we intend to buy the MBDA NCM, but clearly an option.
If we got an extra one we could use 3 as SSBN and 2 as SSGN. We only need 4 so we have a spare. Given the dire need for any form of SSN the MOD should really look again at the proposal to life extend the Vanguards as an SSGN/Drone ship. Vanguard already had her reactor replaced which admittedly was not cheap but compared to the cost of a new submarine it was not expensive. Keeping those four Vanguards even as a strategic reserve would really increase the navy’s capability at a vital time to deter China and Russia… Read more »
I mentioned somewhere else that Vengence should be repurposed and would be the better pick as a stopgap for the time being as a SSGN/Drone mothership. Sadly, I’m sure that is even stretching it for a cash strapped MOD.
That mans MS paint skills are unbelievable. I struggle to make any thing in paint looking remotely decent.
It is indeed good news that the 3rd of 4 has been laid down I just have reservations that the nuclear deterrent should have its own budget as at the moment it is taking up to a 1/3rd of the total defence budget, as was the case up until Mr Osborn decided to muddy the waters with defence spending lumping a lot of items that had there own funding streams into the defence budget just so he could cut defence spending in real terms but could still stand up in parliament and say we are spending 2%.
No that’s simply not true.
The cost of CASD is 6% of the defence budget.
The total cost of the Dreadnought programme is £31billion over approx 15 years.
The U.K. Defence budget is £49billion per year.
The nuclear deterrent is clearly NOT making up a 1/3 of the defence budget as you claim.
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8166/CBP-8166.pdf
Come to think of it when is the Defence review due ?
March
Mind you they are doing a review presently to decide whether March is presently up to the job of being so early in the year and if it should be moved back so that it can sit between July and August. All part of the UK innovation initiative to save costs apparently.
👍
Read some speculative article which stated that the date was originally forecast to be March 7th, but may be postponed because the reviewers did not believe the correct conclusions had been drawn from Ukrainian conflict! ?!? Duh…Orcs bad, NATO good! Need more of…everything! Succinct executive summary, short enough even for politicians. 🙄
It’s not just the cost of the Dreadnought programme Sean, it also includes the AWE sites and all the work they do. It might not be 1\3rd of the budget, but it is substantially more than the figures you allude to. I admit I don’t know the exact figures, but the total costs do impnge on the defence budget. I’m in agreement with @SAR, the cost of building the Dreadnought class and the supporting AWE infrastructure should not be bourne from the MOD budget. Running costs, fair enough, but the rest, no. It’s not a RN asset as such, so,… Read more »
The document I linked to does include AWE costs as well. Including these and all other nuclear related costs the figure rises to £6billion, 14%.
Still less than half of the figure SAR invented.
(BTW – I’d take nuclear out of the defence budget too, but under NATO rules, HMG is allowed to include it in the 2% spend.)
Fair play fella, especially as I didn’t look through your link!
Like I say, I don’t mind if the whole lot sits within the mod budget or not, so long as there are extra funds to compensate if it does.
Problem is the treasury won’t do that, so in reality the Mod budget is smaller because of it. Not the Navy’s fault, but you can see why the other services might be somewhat pissed by it.
MOD budget may be smaller but some other budgets will be bigger, the money/funding prior to it being merged must have been allocated from somewhere.
Do France or US fund the nuclear deterrent from the respective defence budgets? Personally ive not looked into it but id be surprised if they have completely separate spending streams set up for them.
TBH James, I have absolutely no idea how France/USA fund there deterrent, you m ay well be correct in your assumption.
Good Morning Deep. Two things-” not a RN asset as such..”. Now here I must say that I agree with John Cleese in his famous inference in the use of the phrase” …not as such! ” What does it mean? Surely it is a Royal Navy asset or it is not? My gut feel says that it is clearly an RN asset semantics notwithstanding. The second thing-is it a Defence item? Absolutely!! So then it must come out of the Defence budget no matter what kind of linguistic acrobatics the men from the Ministry employ? Certainly if the UK chose… Read more »
Sorry…”the amount SAVED could be allocated…”. Also HMS His Majesty’s Ship Warspite complete with the White Ensign suggests it is a Royal Navy asset.
With all associated deterrent costs it’s about 1/3rd of the equipment budget which is around £20 billion a year. There is about another £30 billion a year spent on services mostly personnel and pension costs. This is an expensive decade for the procurement costs though and there is an £10 billion contingency that the MOD will have to pay back later. By the 2030’s annual costs will drop a lot.
The more bits of paper you rattle in the air the more you look like a government troll, 31 Billion is the estimated costs, so that just assume that the Dreadnought programme comes in on or around the estimate, that is 31 billion that could have been spent on conventional forces.
As I said the Nuclear Deterrent should have it own budget stream completely outside the defence budget as was the case before Mr Osborn.
It’s convenient isn’t it, having someone posting the actual facts and showing everyone that you’re a liar. I’m no government troll, I doubt the government is even aware of the website. And I could reel off a long list of things I think the government has got wrong. No I’m just someone who is sick of liars, from dangerous conspiracy theorists to lazy types like you. It took me less than a minute to find the true costs of the nuclear deterrent, but you couldn’t be bothered to use Google, you just made up a quite frankly unbelievable figure and… Read more »
Here’s an FOI re Defence. Old from 2019, but still informative on the fact that Pensions are from the Budget.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/788393/00481.pdf
We as you are so up to date with the government official paperwork I would suggest you look in the rear-view mirror as the original estimates for the the new SSBN’s was 30 to 100 billion the 31 billion quoted by the government is for the build not for the equipment yet to be installed in the new boats or the upgraded missiles also to go into the new boats. Then there is also the matter of the Nuclear deterrent being paid for by the defence budget an not having its own budget as was the case prier to Mr… Read more »
Oh look, the liar is back.
You are obviously having a few problems in your life and seem to have a need to slag people off on public site like this .
I have a thick skin you however seem to take any question of your integrity as a personal insult to your superior education.
May be a better way would be to use you superior education in a positive and constructive way by proposing a way forward instead of ridiculing any and all alternatives.
You’ve been shown to invent statistics in your posts, repeatedly. You insult the both the host of this site, and everyone who contributes in these debates by fabricating facts to try and support your view.
That you’ve been caught, so easily, on multiple occasions, shows that you’re not just a liar, but stupid too. 🤷🏻♂️
The only person who appears to be insulted is yourself and let us look at who are more comfortable with generating lies. Mr Putin, a highly educated person who lies to further his own agenda. Mr Johnson, a highly educated person who lies to further his own agenda. Mr Trump, a highly educated person who lies to further his own agenda. That is just the first 3 names that came to mind and you profess to be a highly educated person so what agenda are you pushing You say I’ve been caught out,! May be in your highly educated mind… Read more »
So because other people; Putin, Trump, etc are habitual liars you think it’s ok to tell lies too… So far: • I’ve shown you’re a habitual liar because you post comments containing statistics that you invent and which I’ve shown – through providing links to authoritative sources – that you’re figures are not true. • You’ve shown yourself to be stupid by repeating to post fake facts and getting caught yet again. Actually according to Einstein he’d classify that as madness. • And now you’ve demonstrated that you have no conscience, believing it ok to be immoral because others are.… Read more »
So far what!!! You have shown nothing apart from the fact that you try to turn around what people say to try to make your self look good in front of your fans. “Authoritative Sources” you mean official government web sites well anouther official government web site is the National Audit Office (NAO) which stated at the beginning of the new SSBN saga that the actual cost for the program of 4 SSBN’s will come in at 30 to 100 Billion that is dependent of what type of equipment the boats carry and how many missiles they will carry. The… Read more »
The liar spouts outrage at being unmasked as being a liar 🤷🏻♂️
You seem to have a problem in understanding, do you actually read the reply’s or just like gobbing off.
I bet you do not get out much do you ? been filled in one to many time by squaddies that’s probably why you have a chip or 2 on your shoulder.
Well that’s 2 mins of my life wasted reading that argument.
You are quite right, it is becoming extremely boring
Why would I bother reading the postings of a proven liar?…
But skimming through your latest diatribe is couple of new things have become obvious.
• You have an inflated ego of yourself, thinking that that the government would bother to hire someone to refute your postings.
• The homophobic slurs you throw are a classic example of latent repressed homosexuality, resulting in a self-loathing that you channel into insults. It’s 2022 Stevie boy, time for you to come out of the closet and embrace your gay identity.
This is becoming boring , you seem to be ranting about your self most of the time, you do not read, or cannot read a reply and then go off on a what can only be described as a drunken rant.
You need to get a grip of your self and invest in that mirror.
Oh I see that last observation cut deep. Don’t worry, I won’t charge you for that psychological analysis.
So are you going to come out of the closet now? You know deep down you’ll feel better about being honest about at least one thing in your life.
Just getting bored of talking to a complete idiot.
Then stop talking to yourself 🤷🏻♂️
I know I got bored of you 3 days ago so I can relate, talking to yourself must be so much worse…
For gods sake “get a life”
Oh I already have several lives with all the activities I do. Literally out every night… but while en route to different things I still have time to put the world to rights, and that includes outing liars 🤷🏻♂️
You really are a sad sack of s–t, I bet you have not set foot out side your house in years, as for liars you really need to get that mirror and take a good look as that mong looking back will be you.
You really are pathetic aren’t you? Because I point out you lie, you believe everything I post is a lie too.
That attitude speaks volumes for your lack of character, and your attitude to the world. I suspect the image you’re projecting of me is probably a very accurate description of yourself… your self-loathing is pretty obvious.
Do your carers know you use their computer at nights, I understand now why you were not allowed to join up, Never mind you can ask them to get you some toy soldiers to play with.
It’s hilarious, all you have to do is stop posting lies and passing them off as facts. Do that, and I won’t embarrass you by pointing them out to everyone on here…
But clearly your life is so empty you need to fuel a vendetta to give it meaning. You need to get out more, assuming you’re allowed out on your own…
And the lies are….. please tell
The lies you make up about the defence budget, and the proportion that’s spent on the nuclear deterrent. As I have corrected you repeatedly about.
Now I agree, spending on conventional forces should be increased. But the way to achieve that is not to invent statistics, that completely undermines the credibility of the case to increase spending. The actual facts are a sufficient argument.
What you’re doing is hindering the cause of increasing the budget.
At last we seem to be making some sort of progress, The “lies” you refer to are based on NAO forecasts and if you would have actually read my artical I stated “up to” a 1/3rd could be spent on the Nuclear deterrent. With the current governments piss poor track record of budgetary matters like the HS2 which looks like it will be coming in at over 100billion just so people can save 20 minuets on the train to Manchester, and the Ajax program which the MoD has stopped publishing how much it will eventually cost you have to take… Read more »
• You stated 1/3 of the budget was on the nuclear deterrent. • HS2 is overly expensive but again you undermine the argument by saying it’s to save 20mins to Manchester. The primary reason for HS2 is the West Coast Mainline is running at capacity. Building the new line will free up rail capacity on this line, and for local services through the west coast and Wales. The primary reason why it’s over budget is that the company building it vastly underestimated the cost of acquiring property for the route. (And the 20min saving is to Birmingham not Machester 🤦🏻♂️)… Read more »
It is indeed good news that the 3rd of 4 has been laid down I just have reservations that the nuclear deterrent should have its own budget as at the moment it is taking up to a 1/3rd of the total defence budget, as was the case up until Mr Osborn decided to muddy the waters with defence spending lumping a lot of items that had there own funding streams into the defence budget just so he could cut defence spending in real terms but could still stand up in parliament and say we are spending 2% Above is my… Read more »
I believe 12 Ajax variant vehicles have been delivered and that testing of solutions to noise and vibration began in October. But the project is years late, and the Army will have incurred costs from this, such as maintaining current old vehicles meant to be have been replaced. It’s difficult with regard to military projects. Is off-the-shelf good enough or is worth tweaking an existing solution, as happened with Ajax. The P51 Mustang fighter and Sherman tank were both American creations that were pretty mediocre… until the British replaced the engine in the Mustang with a Merlin, and replaced the… Read more »
Sleek. I always think, purely from an aesthetic perspective that having the bow planes on the hull rather than the conning tower looks much better. I’m sure there are better reasons than ‘it looks cool’.
Advantage: Faster helm response and easier to surface through Ice.
Downside: More awkward port docking (until retractables rather than vertical folding were developed), room needed in the hull for the retracted planes and increased mechanical complexity, fair weather planes can steer X and Y without having to correct for altering the pitch of the nose which introduces Z plane movement.
Wonder if there is any design differences between the 1st and 3rd boats?
That normally occurs after hull three, then any significant changes get backfitted at the earliest opportunity. Usually first docking or refit depending on what the changes are.
If is only 4 in the series would it make sense to change the design on boat 4, all the costs etc for 1 vessel?
Can’t exactly remember why they don’t change things until after hull 3, something about consistency and building experience/costs if I recall correctly.
Have to agree that with a small number might make more sense to wait until the end. Then again depends on what the changes are? Audacious had to have some significant changes from the first three Astutes which prolonged her build by an extra 8-10 months.
When building you often encounter issues that require alteration to the construction method/design/task order to fix. Cheaper to make those changes straight away on later boats than to keep using the problematic design/method and correcting later.
A very proud name.
What influence or design overlap will these have on the next Gen hunter killers I wonder.
Hope the prop shaft ( or caterpillar drive) doesn’t break. BAE ( and I worked for them in Portsmouth) = Bleeding awful engineering Enjoyed my time at HMS Collingwood though. Maybe, rather than ” Windows” they will be operating ” Linux” by then.
H I Sutton thinks it could look like a smaller dreadnought design.
(Link)
If on boat 3 already then production of the new hunter’s may well begin quicker than expected!
Interesting article in breaking defense, Australia’s new SSN could be SSNR. Economies of scale could see us get 12 No SSNR. Maybe a bit wishful thinking, but interesting. https://breakingdefense.com/2023/02/growing-signs-australias-new-nuclear-sub-will-be-british-design/
Most people believe they will retain the same powerplant and fundamental mechanical design, just swapping out missile tubes for a smaller number of VLS silos and possibly a mission bay for a mini-sub/divers.
That sounds (potentially) impressive. More flexibility the better I think.👍
Blimey ukdj, that’s a very old, heavily retouched header photo! That’s a ‘DOG’ class tug in the foreground, either ‘Spaniel’ or ‘Husky’, escorting a submarine through Rhu Narrows on the way to Faslane(not that submarine). They were both sold off back in about 2012 to a towage outfit somewhere in Africa I think. They were both ‘arrested’ in Newlyn in Cornwall on their way south for safety gear shortfalls but they ‘absconded’ in the dead of night, never to return.
Must admit when I do photoshop work of this nature the date of the base picture I might exploit as a background (apart from when crucial elements exist) doesn’t really enter the equation much when judging suitability. So it’s not necessarily any indication whether the actual mash up image itself might have been done last month, last year or somewhat earlier.
From Naval News. The whale influenced bow is very nice and noticeable. I appreciate that H I Sutton drew this in paint.
Have observed that H. I Sutton has generally proven to be a fairly reliable data source. 🤔😊
The back of the boat being a gentle curve towards the props also mimics the back of Sharks.
Hopefully some expensive penalty clauses should anyone in Government seek to cancel these 🙂
At one stage not long ago just before the Trident replacement vote in parliament Nigel Farage Putin puppet and apologist was calling for the UK to abandon ballistic subs and replace them with land based Nuke Missiles I wonder who put that idea in his head .. RT news editor ? Galloway?
Or MK?
So long as they are based far away from his house presumably. I can bet he suggested north of Scotland, Wales and perhaps Yorkshire
Where is the steel being rolled to make this British boat? UK I hope. There use to be a plate mill in scunthorpe did you know.