HMS Prince of Wales is leading a fleet composed of assault ship HMS Albion, an unnamed Astute-class nuclear submarine, destroyer HMS Defender, frigates HMS Richmond and HMS Northumberland, minehunter HMS Grimsby, tanker RFA Tidesurge, auxiliary landing ship RFA Mounts Bay in addition to over a dozen NATO warships.
Assault ship HMS Albion tweeted the following this morning.
Joining our #NATO partners in the Norwegian Sea π³π΄ #ColdResponse22 @RoyalNavy @HMSPWLS #WeAreNATO pic.twitter.com/3Oh0cXSxZG
— HMS Albion (@hms_albion) March 14, 2022
Respected defence commentator @TheBrit96 posted the below on Twitter, if you don’t follow him I’d really recommend you do so now.
https://twitter.com/TheBrit96/status/1503349940428615691
The Royal Navy say here in a news releaseΒ that around 35,000 troops from 28 nations are expected to be involved in Cold Response, which will show how a unified multilateral force would defend Norway and Europeβs northern flank from a modern adversary. Roughly 900 Royal Marines will spearhead the UK involvement fromΒ HMS Albion which is already in the region,Β the Royal Navy add.
βAircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales will deploy to the exercise, with frigate HMS Richmond, Type 45 destroyer HMS Defender, a Royal Fleet Auxiliary tanker and a nuclear-powered attack submarine escorting her.Β UK Merlin and Wildcat helicopters will patrol the skies, supporting commando operations and hunting submarines alongside a wide range of aircraft from across NATO, including F-35 fighter jets and attack helicopters.β
Brigadier Rich Cantrill, in charge of the UKβs commando forces,Β was quoted as saying:
βThe UK is making a strong contribution to one of the largest Cold Response exercises for years. NATO as an alliance needs to be ready for anything, ready for all environments. Itβs essential for us to support Norwegian partners and thatβs why we train in the Arctic so often.Β Cold Response is an amazing opportunity for key NATO allies and partners to come together in the most challenging environment of the High North, prepare for any eventuality and learn to work together. What weβll see is a strong maritime task force and then land exercises. We will see many nations come together from the UK to Norway, the USA, the Netherlands, France, Germany and Italy.β
The exercise will run from March 10 to April 10. You canΒ read more on this from the Royal Navy here.
9 Royal Navy & RFA vessels is pretty impressive! Great to see us getting back into the swing of larger task-groups and providing a show of strength in Ivan’s backyard.
Hi @Challenger, Norwegian Sea isn’t generally thought of as Ivan’s backyard, whereas the Barents most certainly is.
As a broad rule of thumb, the dividing line between the two is roughly 25 East.
Yes but Cold Response is to demonstrate the ability to defend Norway and the Northern European flank from a potential adversary which at the moment can only really be Russia and pretty much all subs, surface vessels and aircraft have to traverse The Norwegian Sea when coming out from their northern bases.
Yes, fully agree with you on that score fella.
Which in my view means we would have to strategically defend Sweden should events ever go there. Letβs hope it doesnβt come to that.
Happy days back in the 80’s playing with the Soviet warships in the Barents…π
Oh yes…
After seeing how badly Putin’s forces are doing in Ukraine, I reckon this task force alone could smash the Russian Navy
As a silly question , are there any F35s on the POW this trip?
No simple, however you never know all could change.
Don’t be silly my old friend. Where are we going to find a handful of F35’s? The QE and POW were designed to look nice, not carry warplanes!!
It’s a shame, but Norway has 24 or so F35As.
What a mess we haven`t got sufficient planes to man this aircraft carrier, surely they should have some to defend the carrier, I know its a joint exercise but you cant go into it with basically one hand tied, this would be an ideal exercise to get good training in all units working together, if we are overstretched and dont have sufficient planes for the RAF and enough for our carriers we should restrict our commitments or spend more money and equip them with the proper numbers. Getting rid of a separate navel air arm and doing away with a… Read more Β»
well, the next 24 jets will come when they come, they’re ordered. Wallace seems to be being vague about how many more we’ll buy in an effort to negotiate cost decrease, which in fairness worked for Trump
Apparently the Indians are looking to buy discounted Russian oil. We should, if we haven’t already, cancel all aid and minimalise any investment we have with them. Also the West should remember India’s actions when they inevitably call for help when, in future, they get into a conflict with China and find out just how stupid they have been in believing that Russia will side with them
India has to figure out a way to pay for any Russian oil or arms, given the Western control of the world banking system. They can’t pay in dollars or euros and won’t pay in renminbi. Rupees aren’t a readily convertible international currency, so they are of no value to Russia. India could barter but India really has nothing to barter.
I suppose it could join the new Chinese system π€ͺ
Transfer the money from an Indian bank to a Russian bank, it wouldnt be in Dollars so what would sanctions do to prevent it?
Although im sure it would be delivered in suitcases with used notes as opposed to a legitimate route!
You can expect India to side with Russia, They have been very quiet on condemning Russia, however today the ‘Times of India’ chose to report on a Ukrainian missile that hit Donetsk and nothing else about the conflict.
I previously thought of the Indians as more pro west than say for example Pakistan.
However this conflict has opened my eyes to this particular geopolitical oddity.
Suffice to say India has gone down in my esteem.
Just think in the west we get our IT Services from India ,our manufacturing fromn China , and our energy from Russia.
Its a good job we are still a major customer to all three economies isn’t it- once that changes…well all bets are off.
There is still a lot of hatred for the British, which seems to be growing as the younger generation seems to be more sensitive/angry to what they see as the historical injustice of colonialism. Whereas in Pakistan the anti-western stance is more about religious ideology.
The younger generation are cross that the British were not driven out of India at the point of a bayonet. That did not happen because the Indians as a whole did not wish it to be so. As for the centuries of ‘pillage’ the British left the social system comprising of grasping Maharajas alone; there was no attempt to change India in any fundamental way, not that Britain was immune from Indian influences. Modern India was built on British concepts by an elite that spoke better English than the majority of the English and left with a functioning society, politically… Read more Β»
Yes, I know all this, but facts do not have much bearing on identity politics/victimhood culture that is endemic in our modern times.
indeed.
I think you make some good points. British involvement in India was on the whole a good thing for India. The problem is this left wing woke rubbish that they teach in schools.We should constantly remind the world, the US apart, no one kicked us out. We left voluntarily. I suspect if we still ruled India it would have a lot less poor people, but with less moon rockets and A bombs.
Yes well India are surly not pleased Putin is snuggling up to China for support, they are truly stuck in the middle with most of its equipment army wise and some navy wise needing Russia for the parts and of course gas/oil for industry.
Weirdly enough Rep Ireland is the same. IRA/PIRA have never been more popular than they are right now. After next election they’ll be running the country. Something to ponder that’s for sure.
Yeah, strange how a generation that was not involved in the ‘troubles’ are angrier than the generation who lived through it.
You’d like to think in a global world where countries are dependent on each other for resources, governments would see how pointless and destructive wars are. No one wins, everyone loses in some way.
Yet the Great Game of global influence that we thought ended with the Cold War is up and running once again π’
To be honest Grizzler the west has lived in a bit of an end of history bubble for some time and has missed that fact the rest of the world is not so pro liberal democracy as the west thought.
Itβs time the West wised up a bit and started playing geopolitics as everyone else does and how we used to.
I feel that Russia has been laying the ground work for this for a while now, for example India has been suffering from a huge lack of coke for its steel industry and last Nov it signed a deal with Moscow for 4 million tonnes a year, followed in Dec with a deal to supply 2 million tonnes of oil by the end of this year, also Putin when he visited (Dec 2021) signed a deal for the production of 600,000 Ak203 in house. The icing on the cake was how Moscow supported India over its Kashmir problem at the UN.… Read more Β»
Siding with Russia and against China. All nations act in their own interest and this is broadly accepted internationally. Except when the country is either the U.K. or Israel. Then it’s very wicked.
No surprise there. If Putin got mad and cut off military support to them India would be in deep trouble. Maybe India will stop buying Russian gear. Maybe not. lol
France and Germany sell a fair bit to India and I am sure China wouldnt say no to someone waving a cheque book at them.
Yes you are spot on with your assessment of Indiaβs thinking. They naively believe cosying up to Russia will help defend theirselves against China. If they have any sense left at all they will surely be seeing how iffy that looks, no way would Russia be in any position to do anything to help them even if they wanted to quid quo pro and all that. India really does have think out itβs future very carefully because only the West can or could help them in any conflict as much as I understand them βwantingβ to sit on the fence… Read more Β»
A very impressive collection of ships, but if PoW doesnβt have any F35s on board it will be horribly lacking in offensive threat.
F35’s aren’t required to operate from the carrier for this exercise. Norwegian F35As are provided 5th gen capability to the NATO task group. Interoperability is the name of the game.
One coudl ask what is the point of the PoW in the group then?
The article tells you what POWs role is.
HMS-Prince of Wales is currently operating in its secondary role as a Helicopter-Carrier/Command-Platform this year, HMS-Queen Elizabeth is the current Strike-Carrier.
POWβs prime role at least for the foreseeable and indeed throughout its life a major role, was defined by the Min of Defence before it entered service and discussed on here way back when it was being adapted for littoral support, it is fulfilling that function presently in this exercise.
One role for a RN carrier is as a command and control platform, others are HADR platform, aircraft carrier, commando platform.
4 F35s.
This is interesting.
https://navy-matters.blogspot.com/2022/03/turkish-uav-carrier.html
It’s rammed with tic tac uavs.
The Turkish uavs that are currently doing a very good job in turning Russian armour and Sam systems into scrap in Ukraine. Long may it continue.
The UK currently have deployed F35B to Estonia, and numbers currently deployed are 5 I believe (I stand corrected if anyone e has more information than I have) https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/raf-f-35-lightnings-deploy-to-estonia/
Nine RN ships is impressive… however what isn’t is the anti-surface capabilities of those 9 ships! From what I can see neither of the Type 23 are currently fitted with Harpoon and neither is Defender (Is harpoon already out of service or are they just rotating the sets around?) – which means than other than the SSN the anti ship capabilities of that task group is limited to Martlett or possibly Sea Venom if its carried, neither of which is going to worry anything larger than a corvette… I suppose theres always the good old fashioned 4.5″… I know I… Read more Β»
And we can, with Astute and the helicopter launched AshMs.
^
As much as anti-ship missiles are advancing, submarines remain the most advanced anti-ship platforms in the world and Astutes are among the best of them. Some anti-ship missiles from the 1980s by comparison aren’t much of a game changer.
*Take your point Max that Harpoon is hardly the cutting edge
That’s very true Max.
I would rather have an Astute boat in the anti surface role than most surface assets. it would still be able to deal with enemy submarines too so I donβt think this fleet has anything to worry about.
Martlett is essentially for small raiding craft and Sea Venom isn’t quite up to scratch when its the only option – it doesn’t have the range or the punch to take out a large vessel even if the Wildcat could get close enough to launch without being shot down itself. There doesn’t seem to be any UOR or such to equip F35 with an AShM so effectively in a peer-to-peer engagement we have nothing available to engage large enemy warships other than Astute… Astute is a fantastic piece of kit however we will have 7, how many do you think… Read more Β»
Apparently not our P8’s… I did some digging a little while ago now and I’m pretty sure we didn’t buy the air launched version of Harpoon. Why would we, if we are not buying the latest version for the fleet?
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Cheers CR
I think deep down that I knew the answer before Iβd even typed the question out π
P8 almost seems too good to be true by MOD standards, highly capable and we have 9 of them (Iβd prefer more but itβs not bad compared to other specialist aircraft like wedgetail for example) Iβd read it was only equipped for US weapons to begin with – which would be ok as a stop gap – if we actually bought someβ¦ letβs hope they bought some Mk-54s!
There is a common stockpile of P8 weapons with US forces.
So we havenβt bought air launched harpoon but we can get some immediately.
We pay for munitions on an as-expended basis.
Yeah and the Astuteβs prime job will be hunting enemy subs not taking out enemy ships. Would need about 15 to comfortably do both.
They are very short range missiles.
But very affective in the littoral. The RN wouldn’t have bought them if they weren’t any good.
One of most dire things with no anti surface missiles weaponry is that Russians can act accordingly and change what they have in their ship silos to a more heavy attack missiles instead of anti air.
Exactly – Russian ships are bristling with missiles, in fact most other navies seem to arm their escorts better than we do. Ok Type 45 has a world class anti air capability- Type 23 anti sub but when you look at most comparable warships in other navies they also have anti surface capabilities. I would have thought that having options is pretty important when defending a capital ship. Relying entirely on one or even two SSN to counter all surface threats seems bonkers to me.
After the display of Russian capability in Ukraine, or lack of, do you still believe those warships are any good?
I know what youβre saying – and I donβt doubt that our men and women are much better trained than theirs – however I think the fighting weβre seeing in Ukraine is an altogether different thing to a potential engagement between warships. When all this kicked off I thought well thatβs it then weβll be increasing defence spending, fitting all those toys we fitted for but not with, buying more kit as UORs etc etc Now however I think thereβs a danger of further complacency – thinking that the Russians arenβt doing that well against Ukraine so they wouldnβt worry… Read more Β»
* itβs probably all irrelevant anyway as Iβm fairly certain it would turn nuclear pretty quickly and then a few anti ship missiles will make no difference at allβ¦ (also a view the government might take!)
First ship to ship ship missile that hit in a war was an SS-N-2 Stix, incidentally hit British Z-class destroyer of Israel Navy INS Eilat. … in 1967.
I have very difficulty understanding how some person think here, it seems they think only in binary code.
Things have moved on a bit though in the past 50+ years in both anti ship and anti air systems.
Styx flew in high at around 30m It had a frag warhead behind the fuel tank so that when it went off (before it hit the ship incidentally) it spread burning fuel as well as fragments onto the ships upper deck and hull.
It was a massive wake up for all surface ship operators that the small and at the time much derided FMCs used by Egypt could destroy a far larger vessel.
So they would still be launching the same missile from stocks back then is the highly likely scenario?
A point that I have made on here a lot of times as has @ GB.
I do wonder if we returned any Russian missiles to sender or reprogrammed them to hit Russian targets?
Would explain the low launch numbersβ¦
Are you saying this carrier strike group could not sink enemy ships?
Iβm saying that the Royal Navy element of the deployment, if deployed alone, has very few options for sinking large enemy warships. Effectively only Astute. The two missiles carried by Wildcat are short range and not designed to tackle large vessels, F35 doesnβt currently have anti ship missiles and by the looks of it neither the T45 or two T23s are fitted with Harpoon. So other than relying upon on one or possibly two SSN, which will probably be busy dealing with enemy subs and can also be sunk themselves letβs not forget – we have the grand choice of… Read more Β»
Impressive NATO task group, only a pity the PoW does not have a sqn of F35s onboard and I don’t care if they are British or American. It would have been useful to see how they could support an Amphibious landing. Does anyone know if that is the Jaun Carlos LHD starboard of PoW? I really would like the MoD to build three or four LHDs to replace Ocean, Albion and Bulwark. Two LHDs to one QE carrier would make a very powerful assault group. However the LHDs in my opinion should be used to land an Army armoured battlegroup… Read more Β»
What Army?
It is C551 Giuseppe Garibaldi acting as amphibious task force command.
Good evening threaders ,phone keeps doing a wobbly ,I don’t know if this is correct or not but just read a headline stating that POW has embarked 36 jets I take it that those would be made up of FAA ,RAF, ? as I didn’t realise how many squadrons are F35s
Probably when USMC F-35 were there.
Hi Tommo. I’d say that is unlikely, as the UK does not have 36 F-35B’s. At last count the total is 26, and it’s the RAF’s turn to play with them – many are forward deployed in the Baltic states and Cyprus. It may well have 36 “aircraft” embarked, but they will be helicopters, primarily Merlin and Wildcats, but possibly also Apaches and Chinooks. There will also be an undisclosed number of UAV’s (drones) that are being evaluated. If allies have brought any F35-B’s to play, then it is likely that they will practice landing and taking off from HMS… Read more Β»
Cheers Orcman ,I myself thought that unless we go cap in hand to the USMC again, I think the reporter getting the scoop for his Newpaper got Rotary and fixed wing all jumbled up together and came out with 36 and just threw caution too the wind and put 36 jets
I find that hard to believe. I expect there was a mixup between the number it’s designed to embark and the number it actually has. Do you have a link?
Morning John ,the Story Headline came up on Google News on my Phone
Thanks. Couldn’t find it. Ah well.
The stated capacity is 36 fixed wing AC. There are no F-35 deployed.
Thanks Esteban, it was the headline on Google news thread that the reporter stated 36 jets embarked for this upcoming exercise , when really the POW flightdeck doubles as a Deck hockey pitch when Flyco not embarked
We are going to end having a nuclear war by the sounds of the UN. back to the stone age no one wins Russia is weak same as China big mouths but there only true power is there nuclear arsenal there soldiers don’t want to fight for corrupted governments.
Chaps-any idea whose is the little flat top on the left of the picture?
C551 Giuseppe Garibaldi
Hi Alex. Thanks for that-Italians have a flair for designing and building works of art in cars, ships,bridges and ceilings in the Sistine Chapel among other things ο»Ώπο»Ώ
Nice to see my home associated ship is with this lot – HMS Grimsby π
Is there an HMS Goole to really spook the Russians?
Mazda, Did Grimsby 1989 ,when on the Chiddingfold great game of footie against grimsby CID and their Dog squad police great Sunday game and piss up after amazingly no one was booked for driving under the influence after the game
π
The POW does not need to carry any planes as they can fly to wherever the carrier is and land on it….
We must build, build and build again open every ship yard we have and some we do not have yet or out of commission, we really could be looking at a comprehensive change for the better in the World order we have the right man now we need the kit…