The British Army has demonstrated a range of robotic and autonomous systems that, in the near future, will operate as part of Human-Machine Teams.
At Salisbury Plain training area several automated vehicles were put through their paces, including:
- ATLAS, a Terrier Armoured Engineering vehicle with remote and autonomous capabilities.
- THESEUS self-driving air and ground platforms that will deliver combat supplies in the crucial ‘last mile’ of the battlefield.
- A robotic platoon vehicle.
The closest objective on the horizon for the Army’s Human Machine Teaming Project is the delivery of a Robotics and Autonomous Systems (RAS)-enhanced light Brigade Combat Team by 2025.
“RAS will operate as part of Human Machine Teams, providing and exploiting data allowing better decisions to be made faster. The technology will ensure that the Army is ready to fight and win when the nation and our allies are threatened.
The Army, with our allies and industrial partners, is well placed to accelerate into the technologically enabled future. The density of human soldiers is reducing, in favour of smaller, cheaper, and plentiful platforms that increase combat mass whilst reducing risk to life.”
Major Matt McGarvey-Miles, SO2 Experiments, Future Force Development said:
“Technology alone will never deliver genuine warfighting transformation. It is only when technology is evolved into a new way of fighting that true opportunities are realised. That’s why developing and testing Robotic and Autonomous System capabilities is so important. These systems will play an increasing role in delivering deployed sustainment.
Doing so will increase combat power through increasing mass and tempo of resupply, as well as reducing risk-to-life for our people, leading to an increased probability of mission success.”
More details can be found here.
Terriers complexity makes it expensive to maintain, JCB could have come up with a more cost effective solution to dig holes etc!
A JCB digs holes in a benign building site in a country that is not at war, and can be very simple, low cost and manned by an operator who is at no risk of being attacked by lethal weapons. The army’s combat engineers do not have that luxury, and have far more complex military engineering tasks to perform. The Terrier vehicle does far, far more than dig holes. It is fitted with a large earthmoving bucket and side mounted excavator arm. The earthbucket can be replaced with other devices such as the Pearson Engineering surface mine clearance device and… Read more »
How many are fully fit ?
Peter, How could we possibly know that? However, when I was a REME officer we had to keep a minimum of 70% of equipments fit at all times with a further 20% fit after 24hrs work.
JCB builds more than just backhoe diggers! I have seen JCB equipment being used by our forces.
Adrian, I just looked at the JCB Defence website – as well as backhoe diggers they make fork lift trucks and telescopic handlers and some construction plant for the forces – thats it!
https://www.jcb.com/en-gb/products/defence-products
So more than what you originally posted/commented about. My son in Law works at JCB building telehandlers for both civi and defense markets. 🙂
Andrew, I believe in brevity. It is wrong to suggest that JCB make an enormously varied range of kit for the British forces. They produce some equipment largely for the RE and once built Eager Beavers for the loggies.
Graham, JCB provide far more vehicles to the forces than there are Terrier’s
Er… BAE delivered this solution (@ Barrow?)
You do understand what BAE means, right?
Terrier was designed by BAE in Leicester and built in Newcastle. Both sites are now closed.
Mr Wait, your comments are often misinformed at best but this one takes the biscuit.
CET could have gone on saving money !
When I was based at Chatham. I was part of the RE sales team and we used to show off the Combat Engineer Tractor (CET) at the pond at Upnor. Part of the display was for the CET to drive off the side of the jetty into the pond, swim across the water and then firing its anchor pull itself out of the water. I don’t think JCB have come up with something similar yet.
I was the Robotics and UGV officer for the Army in 1989/90 working in RARDE/DERA Chertsey – our R&D work was cutting edge (despite very taut budgets) and we were probably 15 years ahead of civilian industry.
Sad to say that the level of interest shown by senior officers in the army for this subject bordered on nil. I hope attitudes have improved.
…a familiar story I’m afraid. Advances in tech not recognised by those without strategic vision. This is why I argue for a dedicated agency in the UK tasked with nurturing strategic resources and capabilities (funded by a Sovereign Wealth Fund), and not leave it to the MoD or individual armed service.
Off topic, but it seems the NLAWs are going a great job, so shouldnt we be placing an order for a large restock, so we can gift more of the current stock to Ukraine
I think we all expected anti tank missiles to be effective, but I don’t think many realised just how effective they would be if you ensure your enemy is funnelled though flooding etc
one of the roles of the Sapper (Hurrah for the CRE!) – counter-mobility & canalising the enemy into the killing zone.
Just hope that Ukraine forces have lots of these in Mariupol to give the Ruskis a very bloody nose and push them back over the border!! 💪 💪 to 🇺🇦. What a people, what fighters!
Hope they can still sink some ships and take out more aircraft, missiles launchers, tanks. Time for Putin to be “kaPutin”!
From what I was reading Mariupol is close to calapse. As the defenders are going to have to choose between keeping their current defensive line to the east or pulling back and to reinforce the western side of the city or to fully retreat to help defend the capital. Either way it would be giving up large amounts of held land allowing russian artillery closer.
Difficult to see any other outcome for Mariupol right now than outright victory for the Russian forces. There is no way of reinforcing the Ukrianians there by land or sea. The US Switchblades would have helped against artillery pieces but too little too late. Need a miracle. Ukrainian counter attack from the north or something.
Think I read the nearest possible Ukrainian forces are roughly 100km away, would take them quite some time to reach in contested space.
With no supplies, water or being restocked with ammo it is only a matter of time sadly for everyone left in the city.
You are all correct. There will be no miracle, Mariupol cannot be saved. DNR and Russian forces are grinding their way in from three main directions. After they have moved on the Chechens mop up and sort out things, any Azov members being killed. Those were facts. I have more detail on this if you want to ask questions but I will ignore the stupid ‘Ivan’ posts that I seem to garner.
They may take the city but then it’s easy for the defenders to blend in to the background. Russians don’t have the forces to hold it especially if they then have to go on a take more cities.
Not in this case. As above, every living person, even if wounded, is being processed by Chechen units of the Russian Guard. They are basically emptying the city to ensure no post capture activity. Soldiers from ‘normal’ Ukrainian Army units are treated as PoWs whilst those from the Right Sektor like Azov and Aidar, are ‘terrorists’ and either arrested or shot. Those were facts. As I again wrote above, I have more detail on this if you want to ask questions but I will ignore the stupid ‘Ivan’ posts that I seem to garner.
But Azov are wearing uniform and therefore should be afforded the rights of a uniformed combatants? And it’s only a small part who seem to be tight of the agenda, whole it seems the vast majority of Russian head sheds, certainly Poop Tin, are the Nazis here. And the Ivan posts aren’t stupid, they are correct, oh and Andrew is a bit quiet isn’t he?
Then Russia is in breach of the Geneva convention, again.
I think the defenders of Mariupol are the Azov battalion. This group has a right wing neo-nazi culture and will be hunted down to a man to fulfil Putin’s ‘de-nazification’ agenda.
The current Russian head sheds have the same right wing neo-Nazi culture. Communist or fascist, cheeks of the same arse with only a crack between them.
Quite!
Agreed.
Correct.
Right wing neo nazi culture? Just like the culture in the Wagner group, the Kremlin’s headcase PMC of choice. You’re no doubt aware that their leader Yevgeny Prigozhin is covered in Nazi tattoos. Do you think that he’ll be questioned by your so called Chechen police?
The city is encircled so no routes to retreat, its two options fight to the death or surrender and become a POW.
I’m guessing Russian lines are pretty thin, probably possible to penetrate them if not simply throw away your uniform and blend in it the background wait for the Russian forces to move on then hit their policing units.
The DNR/Russian/Chechen lines are not thin. Most people fleeing, on foot or in their cars, are quickly processed and passed on to humanitarian groups. Males of military age go through an enhanced checking including examination for Nazi tattoos which identifies them as ‘terrorists’ for special processing often resulting in death. Many have tried disguise and failed. The policing units are Chechen who are not to be trifled with.As I wrote above, those were facts. I have more detail on this if you want to ask questions but I will ignore the stupid ‘Ivan’ posts that I seem to garner.
You’ve repeated yourself very often and seem very glad about the execution of uninformed combatants? Your agenda is there for all to see so most read your posts with a passing wry smile and a sad shake of the head. While you on the other hand get very excited.
Ah chechens, another war which didn’t go well for your underfed, undertrained and corrupt two bit military. Come on son, tell your head sheds to get a grip as I’m struggling to think of a war you started to which you haven’t fucked up.
Yes. I’ve questions. Where do you get this absolute gibberish from ?? What detail do you think you have?? Rubbish from Lavrov ? Gaslighting from Kremlin news channels?. For the benefit of slow learners like you, the Nazis are the Russian military and their mercenary Chechen animals, they are no police unit, they are sub human psychopaths along with those jihadi Syrian nihilists. You do not know what you are talking about.
Agreed!
Something I can agree on…most on here are also ignoring the stupid Ivan posts. 😂
The more you post the more you make an ass of yourself.
If the Ukrainian forces are making gains as reported maybe a counter attack can be launched in the Mariupol area…first wait for all the Russian forces to be huddled together then let her rip! Hopefully they still well stocked with atms!
And armed drones!
Yes they are, but we need a reality check. Putin is waging all out medieval war, siege tactics against civilians and infrastructure; implemented using the reach of ballistic and supersonic ALCM. Syria was the alarm that failed to wake us up and get our heads out of the sand. Had Ukraine had 1000 Abrams or Challenger tanks and a fleet of tranche 3 Typhoons or equivalent Putin would not have invaded.
Even now we should be talking to Sweden and installing RBS15 to defend Odessa. Putin’s forces need to be given a good kicking somewhere.
I think the issue is Putin surrounded himsele with yes men, who over sold the capability of the Russian miltiary and were probably on the side pocketting huge amounts of money that you was meant to go to modernisation.
We have seen this to a lesser degree with our miltiary, multiple independent reports after the various recent conflicts have all critised the ‘can do’ approach and lack of realsim when it comes to what realsitcially can be achieved.
Morning Steve, ‘yes men indeed’. They are saying yes to the little Putin inside themselves. You can achieve good but you have to decide to change direction. As an example the UK is finding it difficult and sometimes embarrassing to free ourselves from our imperial history warts and all but we are not using gay parades as a excuse to raise cities to the ground and attempting to paint the world map pink again, no pun intended. A little grace goes a long way. The likes of Lavrov and Kirill are defending the indefensible.
What really worries me is if the army is in this poor state of maintance with clearly money being funneled off, what is the status of their nukes or worse their SSBNs. A few of these going off by mistake could be end of the world stuff.
Medieval siege warfare is a good example. The besieging force always has to worry about attack from the rear. The Germans has 1.5 million in the region in 1942 and got wiped out conducting one siege. The Russians have 10% of those numbers and will have to conduct dozens of sieges against an enemy that’s far more capable in close combat. The Germans found it that turning a city in to rubble dose not kill the defenders, it can help them in many ways and encircling a city takes numbers the Russians don’t have. If they can’t take Mariupol with… Read more »
As I posted above I think Mariupol is an exception for two reasons. 1) the Ukrainian defenders are drawn from the neo-nazi Azov battalion and 2) if or rather when the Russian control the city it would present an opportunity for cease fire negotiations. Putin woulf bargain his hostages for a permanent land bridge from Donbas to Crimea. A bitter pill for Zelensky to swallow but a possible basis for peace…
It is the Ukrainian leadership, with no doubt much advice from NATO, that decided that their strategy was to build medieval, as you put it, fortified defensive cities with their populations as part of that defence. Hence forcing Russia to do what it is doing. We and Germany are much richer than Ukraine and we couldn’t afford that level of military. How could they? How could RBS15 get to Odessa? The Russians have settled down to a steady pace, rather than rushing forward as in the first week or so, amended their plans to reflect what they face. Regardless of… Read more »
Oh I see, it’s all the Ukrainians fault for having the nerve to defend themselves. Nothing to do with the Nazi gangster in the Kremlin who has launched a genocidal invasion. The only kicking getting done is women, children, elderly and civilian targets such as schools, hospitals, shops and housing. Your Russian military is so incredibly incompetent in combined arms and manoeuvre warfare that they are reduced to a murderous campaign against civilians. The courts in The Hague are waiting for those Russian commanders. Justice will come for them. Where on earth do get your fantasy news from?Nowhere reputable that’s… Read more »
He is just a muppet, one of the many trolls who inhabit cyber space. He doesn’t think any of us have noticed his continuous Putin man love comments, and tries to make out he is an impartial observer.
At best a useful idiot, at worst a cheerleader for a genocide. A waste of oxygen either way..
Agreed mate!
TBF,the rate the “Commanders” are being picked off, there wont be many to face trial in the Hague
A bit pejorative. No-one is forcing Russia to do anything. That perspective would certainly attract ‘Ivan troll’ comments and they would be justified. As I have posted elsewhere the west have been asleep / naive. This has been coming since Syria. To our credit the UK was awake enough to instigate training of the Ukrainian forces and intelligent arming of infantry. I don’t know how you would get RB15 to Odessa. But I suspect it would be possible. I would do it and blow the Russian invasion fleet out of the water. Odessa must not fall. I don’t agree that… Read more »
Fair enough, bad choice of words. Rather than Syria I think this has been coming since Minsk2 in 2015 and the lack of intention to implement it and yes the UK was on the ball. Interesting view on the RBS15 but it is a big and complex system that would be difficult to smuggle in and need serious training. The Ukrainians have their own and ex Soviet based AShM that they are well versed on and are effective. I’m not sure that the Russians are doing more than keeping UkA units tied down in Odessa. As to the cowardly bombing,… Read more »
The dire situation of an illegal invasion by Putin? agreed!
Apologies for delay in replying…medical appt. Re: RBS15 I agree any effective AShM would do the job. Re: bombing strategies and Kinzhal; these are consistent with a certain desperation creeping in to Russian tactics. Ditto the Putin rock concert. Drafting in state employees to listen to ‘Greater love hath no man than that he lays down his life for his friend’. Give me a break.They are only fining the protestors because the jails aren’t big enough to hold them all. The Ukrainians will make the most of media coverage of civilian casualties and the numbers of refugees speaks for itself.… Read more »
The Russians have settled down to a steady pace! Ha ha ha ha ha you know that’s not their doctrine, they have only settled down to a steady pace because they/you totally underestimated the Ukrainians and overestimated your abysmal capabilites. It’s now all about the Russkies saying this was the plan all along……and it’s totalbullshit as it turns out the big Russian bear is a very underfed, weak, confused, scraggly ginger cat which smells of alley cat piss.
Ah thererm MSM, same term your other avatar troll Andrew used, until he got his arse handed to him that is. And the only kicking I see being delivered is the Ukrainians to your Russkie pals, aside for the rather outdated and murderous doctrine of using OS on cities and civvies. Russian doctrine as all about smash shit up from a distance to make up for a lack of skills, decent well serviced kit and combined arms tactics. You must be proud of your brave conscripts killing so many civvies. And, in light of the continued attack on civvies, any… Read more »
NLAW will be the key weapon once they are fighting in the cities. Shorter ranges and the ability to fire from concealed positions will see its effectiveness increase exponentially. The Russians will resort to artillery however with their depleted logistics how much artillery ammunition can they move. Not enough to level dozens of cities and keep forces supplied in the field I will wager.
It sounds like they don’t really need a dozen cities more like two. They want to secure a front from the south to enable their landing forces to depart and then they want to take the capital. It seems they are gambling that the resistance will stop once the capital falls. Hard to know if that is true or not, but certainly it seems the majory if defenders are around the capital, so loss of it would mean a significant loss of defenders and equipment. Horrific stuff, Russia just doesn’t seem to value human life the same way as we… Read more »
Horrific stuff, Russia just doesn’t seem to value human life the same way as we do in the rest, or at least their miltiary / rulers don’t I assume you meant to say “West” rather than “rest”. If so I’ve read some claims on here but that just about takes the biscuit. Remember Dresden, shock and awe in Iraq inc Fallujah and Madelaine Albright’s classic comment re 500,000 children? Yes, as you say, no ruler in history seems to have let human lives stand in the way of military success, including us. But compare and contrast the reaction in the… Read more »
Hang on chum. Dresden was a prime nest of Nazi-ism and many small distributed factories. Having invented firebombing (e.g. Coventry – i.e. to be “Coventrated”) the Nazis then “reaped the whirlwind.” Even the German residents afterwards said they understood why it was done.
Agreed, I wasn’t questioning why it was done, just that in doing it civilians and, many of them refugees fleeing ahead of the Red Army, were not uppermost in our leaders’ minds. The more recent ones I cited are probably more relevant.
Quick change your tune about Dresden as Albert has mentioned it was the prime location for Nazi ism and your current agenda is all about anti-Nazi isnt it Johnskie. Fuck me son we can read you like a book, a sad lonely and incorrect book with big letters, but a book all the same.
Fair point, although the 500k figure is not based on any independent evidence, and official figures are way way lower. But for sure the human loss was way higher than should have been allowed, mainly because the media didn’t do the best job in reporting the truth to what was happening and just mirroring the official spin. If details of civilian deaths had become public there would have been an uproar as happened with the various whistleblowers. However one thing having accidental deaths and another pounding cities and civilian areas directly, which appears to be happening. Although admittedly very littleed… Read more »
Thanks for the reasoned answer. Have you seen any figures for civilian deaths over the past few days that might be believable? The last ones I saw were well under 1000 which seems low.
There was a UN report that put the Iraq civilian deaths at around 40k I believe, but that will be a mix of who killed them. No idea if there is any reliable ones for just deaths caused by the western allies
As you are obviously clued up on the Russian position In this war can you please tell us the casualty rate you are suffering at the moment? Or is it still the 500 or so the Kremlin is claiming!
As far as I can tell they stopped issuing figures at the end of the first week but it must be much higher than that by now.
Its called double standards Russkie, oops let yourself down again! But there’s no change to your tactics as to what you did form day one in Afghanistan through to Syria. Dumb people using dumb ordnance, as you haven’t the finance, the econ oy or the people with the right skill set to do much else.
Australia has selected MQ-28A Ghost Bat as the name for its Loyal Wingman aircraft, the ‘Loyal Wingman’ program name will now be phased out while Boeing will market the aircraft internationally under the name “Airpower Teaming System”.
Isn’t Atlas part of the Ajax program? Terrier is already in service after replacing the CET(frog)
Atlas was the recovery vehicle variant of the Ajax series. Whether it’s the same vehicle or just same code name, no idea.
ATLAS is the recovery variant of the AJAX vehicle, not related to the Terrier.
Jacko wrote:
Help me here, but what does the frog inside the parentheses mean?
Its was the nickname for the CET😀 it was able to swim albeit with floatation bags, it was known as nothing else👍
Top tech may look good but as we can see simple wins the battle in the end. The Army would be better spent trying to sort out what kit it really needs and get value for money as they have wasted so much on programmes that just DO NOT DELIVER. Leaving our fighters with kit that is past it as no money spent on looking after it. Quality is fine but you also need numbers when going to the table. Not great when engineers have to go a get their own tools to fix things. MOD is being run by… Read more »
Terrier. One of the few armoured vehicle procurement successes along with Titan and Trojan.
Hope to see more of this, and more drones, arriving in the ORBAT.
On my sceptical side, they will be demonstrating them for the next decade then demonstrate some more in 2030.
Yes, let’s celebrate success where it occurs for sure.
How many will get ordered?
A tiny number so the R&D / debugging cost dwarfs the production costs?
Production done with 33 Trojan & 33 Titan!
In the case of Trojan I believe the Engineers were very much part of the planning team and specified what they wanted and actually got it!
Fantastic to hear the team got what they wanted.
All MoD Requirements Managers are military officers and generally (but not always) have the cap badge associated with the equipment being developed.
Well they want a “RAS enhanced” LBCT so unless that is the usual waffle and spin it should be in decent numbers.
The only LBCT is, according to the “Future Soldier” publication, 4 LBCT.
What I also want to see are the firepower solutions.
Things like ‘Enhanced NLAWS’? I made that up…..!!
‘Enhanced Star Streak’ with the ability to use remote targeting data? Another one I made up!!
Seriously there is some good simple stuff to be done.
But you get the drift.
But I agree some heavy hitting is also needed.
Army go too Gucci with all singing dancing everything. Too much complexity and weight.
Navy can get away with it as the platforms are bigger and solutions more compact these days.
I know an ex-RE Lt.Col. (& earmarked for higher) who was involved with staffing the RE armoured vehicle replacement project at the time & resigned over it – he might argue as to how successful it was.
Crikey, has the malaise reached here too?
I believed all 3 were delivered to time and budget and the users were happy with the vehicles. But what would I know.
Do you know what the issues were?
Well, this was probably something like 10-15 years ago but iirc the usual typical MOD issues – took too long to draw up requirement/design/prototype/test/manufacture & deliver. He said basically obsolescent on delivery …
Puzzling. From http://www.armedforces.co.uk – “A contract worth £250 million was awarded during early 2001 for the supply of 66 vehicles – 33 x Trojan and 33 x Titan. Deliveries to the RE commenced in late 2006”.
That speed from CA to delivery is astonishing.
Also, I don’t know anyone today, some 15 years after delivery that would say they were obsolescent, let alone when they were fielded.
Do you mean Titan & Trojan or Terrier? These were all seen as very successful projects so why did your friend resign?
An Robotic PLATOON Vechile , the rise of Back seat Drivers will be defening ” Are we there yet”
Is this the ATLAS that’s an Ajax derivative? I don’t think so. So the British Army is looking at two engineering vehicles, the BAES ATLAS, a 30 ton Terrier derivative digger, and GD ATLAS, the 30 ton Ajax derivative recovery vehicle.
Can the Army insist as part of the contract on no name overlapping?
Edited to Add. Apologies to Jacko, who I now see already pointed this out.
Off topic. On Sunday Rishi Sunak all but confirmed that there will be no increase in the defence budget or foreign aid. He sidestepped when asked if there would be an increase, pointing to the recent uplift in the 2021 Integrated Review. I’m sure that will go down well on here!
He does not support defence in my opinion. They had to fight to get the spending agreement they got, I’d read he only wanted it over one year.
…and Borris does not get it either.
see above – apart from the leadership positioning of course – he’s already had his go & been found wanting.
He’s a smug self centred wanker in my opinion – full of shit and just trying to position himsef for the upcoming leadership contest…in many ways.
…sounds like you are not planning on having his babies then. 🙂
Indeed. The old adage still applies, “no votes in defence”. We are only a few years away from another general election so anything they announce will have that in mind.
With souring inflation defence spending will actually be lower and may need more cuts if high prices continue for too long.
The Chancellor aiming to cut taxes rather than spend more just makes the situation worse.
A few attacks on Azov Battalion on here so a few facts. It has a strength of over 2.000 of whom 20-30% are Nazis. Among it’s members the vast majority have no connection to Nazi or Neo Nazi politics. There are Jewish members of the Battalion. The Wagner group on the other hand !
Whether they are neo nazi or not ( and every country has problems with extremists), it was always a Ukrainian issue to sort out. It had nothing to do with Russia. As you correctly point out, the Wagner group are noted extremists, their leader Prigozhin is covered in Nazi tattoos. I
Certain contributers on here feel the need to push the Nazi format, same as their illustrious leader Poop Tin! The Wagner wankers are xertainly “on the other hand”! Group of half trained, brain dead, semi skilled monkies with the occasional FSB and serving head shed to direct their operations and communications (and tech jobs such as calling in OS etc).
👍
Whenever I hear Putin and his little helpers ranting on about others being ‘Nazis’ the word projection always springs to mind
Sort of tongue in cheek but the Terrier chassis here looks a bit more useful and agile than the ASCOD chassis on the Ajax. Worth exploring with a CT40 turret – what do you reckon?
Sorry, I’ve only just seen Jon’s comment above from two days ago alluding to an Ajax connection.