In a sudden change of plans, HMS Queen Elizabeth will not participate in the upcoming NATO exercise Steadfast Defender, due to a mechanical issue identified in the starboard propeller shaft.

The Royal Navy has promptly readied HMS Prince of Wales to fill in for her sister.

The Fleet Commander elaborated on the situation, stating, “Routine pre-sailing checks yesterday identified an issue with a coupling on HMS Queen Elizabeth’s starboard propeller shaft. As such, the ship will not sail on Sunday. HMS Prince of Wales will take the place of HMS Queen Elizabeth on NATO duties and will set sail for Exercise Steadfast Defender as soon as possible.”

It is understood the issue was found due to increased checks after recent issues with sistership HMS Prince of Wales.

The aircraft carrier was destined to play a central role in combined exercises with alliance forces, culminating in Steadfast Defender – a significant demonstration of NATO’s resolve, unity, and capability, involving over 20,000 UK military personnel deployed across Scandinavia and Northern Europe.

HMS Queen Elizabeth was scheduled to lead a carrier strike group consisting of eight ships, including the British frigate HMS Somerset and two Tide-class tankers from the Royal Fleet Auxiliary, bolstered by support from US, Spanish, and Danish vessels.

Prior to navigating towards Norwegian waters and the High North, the Carrier Strike Group was meant to refine its collective skills in northern Scotland through the UK’s regular Joint Warrior exercise.

From there, the force was expected to proceed to the High North and participate in Exercise Nordic Response – the maritime segment of Steadfast Defender – focusing on safeguarding northern Norway, Sweden, and Finland, effectively defending the Nordic nations from potential ‘attacks’.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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208 COMMENTS

    • Ah the Gosport ferry, perhaps only rivalled in its longevity and capabilities by the Torpoint ferry (it can after all take vehicles). Both the firm friend/favourite of many a gratefully bliss non to sober sailor!!!

        • As in the 70’s Frank. What’s the name of the pub Torpoint side? 😳 Memories’ fading. Wrns aplenty though…….. 🙃

          • Never drank Cornwall side ,in training ,there were Wrns billets by the FF school in Raleigh if my memory serves me right ,strange creatures never saw them when night fell

          • Just remembered the other Torpoint pub… The Tamar Inn on the corner of Tamar Street and Fore Street… Ring any bells ?

          • £200 fine now well it was on-board don’t know if that rule applies to Shore bases if so I’d have been broke .Or do you mean drinking ?

          • Nothing Domestos and a Brilo Pad couldn’t cure, I hope. Penicillin is overrated.
            For our American friends, Domestos and Brilo Pad would be bleach and wire wool!

          • Shot put was in the catering department I’ve seen enough Babies heads thrown in anger in the Scan queue when you mention Bi ceps too a server

          • There were two we used to visit mostly, the Kings Arms was closest to the Ferry and there was another up the hill on the corner but I can’t remember the name… Also we liked Union Street for the pubs and clubs and the best pub was the “Prince Regent”….. famed for it’s friendliness and Posh cliental !!!!

            Union Street was like a battle ground … especially when the Yanks were in port…..

          • Yep, the Kings Arms the very one. ____Very nice memories there, ahem. Aggie Westons fer scoff, Fleet club early opening, Union strasse fer the nite if you trapped, Antelope (spit n sawdust literally) fer cider, man the dits hookers could tell. Cracking. Avondale was local, just outside the dockyard gates…… Thanks for the memories. 👍

          • Avondale must have changed (outside St. Levens gates) shame, knew the landlord and landlady well. Good people. Never new any problems there. Things change I guess 🤔 👌

          • I guess It must have been another place i was thinking about… there was one pub we never entered near the docks…. Had some great times though….

          • Yeah agreed, made your own entertainment. Bulwark was finishing Damp, Hermes was converting, Albion last commish, Centaur up the trots, Eagle last commission, Ark Royal on task, Triumph far east, Victorious being scrapped. RustyB moved to pompey shortly after that. Gus was quite busy at the time. 👍

          • Capri and Eagle up the trot when I was in training grass had started growing on the flight deck Hermes my first draft Commando carrier , but still carrying ND Charges worked Bomblifts

          • Always remember the Dwarf stripper in one club in Union Street stripping to that Song “In Zaire rumble in the jungle” what a laugh doubt if you’d be allowed too laugh nowadays.

          • Yep DavyB, as previously mentioned but not exhausted. The Union Srasse was at times totally fogetable. If only by the amount of wages spent to get to that stage. 😊 I did manage to become an expert in hedge 😴 sleeping. Ain’t been back in 40 odd years. 👌👍

          • I had a cousin who invited me down to few drinks. His ship the newly minted HMS Cornwall was celebrating either passing their first FOST or being commissioned. I can’t remember. But we hit the town and the Street, had a big scrap with a visiting USN ship’s company in a night club. Woke up in the cells in Devonport. Not bad as a few days before, I had my passing out parade. Somehow managed to get away with just a bollocking from the Duty Officer and nothing was passed to my new unit.

          • Similar but not. RustyB, during leave or just before, a baby stoker was stabbed to death down town. The immediate response was ships company (lads), all departments split into 50%, started in Devenport walked to union street, and anything that remotely looked like a skinhead was hospitalised. Gus was quiet for some time after that. Early 70’s😶

          • Being a Cornish lad, I attended Plymouth Poly 86 to 88 (now University), so know the town pretty well. A lot has changed, since then, as all the clubs I believe have now gone.

      • It’s time that the Gosport Ferry sold Duty frees its covered more nautical miles than most of the fleet give it some perks

          • Oh my Pussers, my Kryptonite. I remember having my first shot of Pussers in the Artillery. Then a few hours later I don’t remember my last shot (and the last of that bottle). I’ve never been able to look at Rum again.

          • I’m the same with whisky. Just the smell is enough to make me reach for the nearest bucket. It stems from my very first drunken episode as a recruit. Make that a paralytic alcohol poisoning episode. It was a bad one and served as aversion therapy ever since. Kryptonite indeed = a very good way of explaining it. Cheers bootneck comrade.

            Sadly I have many relatives from North of the border who keep sending me bottles of the stuff. Those in the know buy me brandy and port. I’m no glophead you understand but I do enjoy a snifter from time to time. It helps me gonk.

    • My first thought too, answering the call to arms from Beijing-biden.
      So, where do you think it is; Yemen and Houthis first or straight to Iran?

    • I fear she will end up there and in dry dock. If so, the ship will be out of service for the rest of the year. One plus point, a refit could be brought forward if a visit transpires.

          • I think she is also due to be fitted with the enhanced landing aids at the same time so in a way it, if she has to go in it would make sense to bring forward that work. Unless of course it’s a quick fix but these are the issues when your production car is the prototype.

          • I think it was Bedford array time.

            The main issue is the dock ready, are all the bits there, is all the workforce available…..I’m guessing they are taken if T31 work to do this so programming is involved.

          • I was under the impression that was the idea of the long term contract for the Carriers to Rosyth that there was always availability as soon as tides allow.

          • Indeed.

            But I doubt there are yard crews propping up brooms hanging around as there were in the ‘80’s. I once got into trouble, just after I had my first helping of gold on my shoulders, I’d commented about the lack of activity in the dock we were due out in a week and there was loads to do and not much getting done. The CPO nearly died and pulled me aside and gave me an upwards rollocking along the lines of ‘they could all walk out for that’…….then you’d have to answer to XYZ for not deploying……

            The contractors and subcontractors will need notice and materials.

            In this just-in-time era parts won’t be lying around.

          • Yeah true finding the hands to do the work might be a pain. Don’t talk just in time to me I hate it

        • Lloyds rules, under which MOD now operate, require a full inspection every 5 or 6 years, and the opportunity is taken not just for undergoing safety repairs but some upgrades too. The last proper drydocking and hull inspection was in 2019, so it’s not too early.

          • Didn’t HMS PWLS set a precedent in terms of grouping repair w/ capability insertion? Would not anticipate HMS QNLZ being non-fleet status for more than 24-30 months. Certainly better than CVN refits which require refueling. 🤔

          • I have no idea what to expect. We aren’t in Kansas anymore. On the one hand, the need to have HMS QNLZ available asap is acute. On the other the need to redistribute 780 sailors to get the rest of the fleet operational is pretty acute too. Might we see the two carriers alternated like Albion and Bulwark? I honestly couldn’t even guess at the compromises to come.

          • Agree, pace of events appears to be accelerating. One maxim inculcated was that ‘flexibility is the key to airpower,’ perhaps a general principle applicable across services. 🤔

          • Yes but the US CV are built for a 50 year (+) life and the RCOH is scheduled in halfway through. Because refueling 2 Reactors is such a convoluted process they use the opportunity to modernise, upgrade, complete strip down, refit and replace.
            Which is why the price is absolutely eye watering. Roughly what we paid for both our Carriers.
            But would I like a tour round whilst it’s going on ? Oh yes 😉

        • I know we all have short memories but she’s been afloat 10 years in july, admittedly not in service but afloat!

          5year inspection and paint was done but I imagine she will have another inspection and a little spruce up this year.
          This is annoying but does prove the theory of 2 needed to the naysayers and might as well get her in as soon as tides allow if she needs too.

          • Thanks for the inof on refits.

            Also, a bit worrying that carriers with relatively little mileage are still requiring major rectification activity at the OEM at a difficult-to-access yard. As they age this may be more frequent. When unsheduled repairs is combined with routine refits and less significant alongside maint work, I doubt 2 carriers are enough to ensure at least one is alwyas available for operations. In fact I know that it is not.

    • They’ve cut another weighted Monkey fist heaving lines too start their own metal recycling plant never did get them backv

  5. Well, that’s why we ordered two. So long as PoW is ready then it’s just a simple case of these things happen

    • These things shouldn’t happen when she,s in dock . That’s when checks and routine servicing/ maintenance should be done , not in the hours before she sets sail .

      • Indeed. Point one she has been pushed hard (partly due to PofW problems) so no surprise this has cropped up. But Point 2 why would you not be checking for this during the lean spell in recent months considering the pressure she has been under and considering the experience of PofW. Hey maybe checks had been carried out and nothing was discovered but it’s difficult to be confident when as pointed out in the last 24 hrs we have been in Defence carrying out a ludicrous Just in Time policy of supply and production, which seems rather literal in this particular case unless we hear an acceptable explanation.

        • Do you really believe that? Why on earth would they wait till it was just about to sail to reveal that she isn’t going to deploy!

      • Yeah either Ships divers or Dockyard lead boots should have checked the Hull ,Rudders ,and Props with Feeler gauges or don’t they have them anymore?

      • Good joke, why the on earth do we need 3. Even the Chinese and Indians are struggling to commission and manage 3 and their fleets are much larger.

        • No joke. Rule of 3. With just 2 we cannot guarantee always having one vessel available for deployment, particularly as they age and become less reliable (!). I think we have a 60-70% chance of 1 being available for Ops with a 2-ship fleet. Sod’s Law is that the big war will happen when both are unavailable.

          Also, we needed 2 carriers to do Op Corporate – if you only have 2 in your fleet, you have got to be very sure they are both available – a very big ask.

          We had 3 x Invincible class for a reason.

          The Chinese and Indians do not have a bluewater navy (that can do and is practiced in global power projection) – we do.

      • Graham 2 was a miracle and we can’t operate both fully at the same time. One active and one tied up / refit is the optimum number we can crew and afford to operate. If you think back to 2010 every one of the services had to make huge sacrifices (cuts) to pay for them.

        Whats really missing is the support infrastructure, it’s a Bodge and not a good one. If any fix requires serious hull work she has to go back to the build dock at Rosyth.
        And doing that is all down to the Monthly Lunar Tides for access. Ideally (safely) you need the Min Low tide to get under the Bridges and Max High Tide to get over the Lip and into the Dock that’s only 3/5 days a lunar month.

        • I don’t really accept that all the services had to make sanctifies to pay for them Army had FREs funded, Navy QEC, RAF F35B and Typhoon upgrade pathway.

          They were all in the £5Bn ballpark.

          Just army wasted theirs.

          RAF and RN spent wisely.

          This shaft coupling issue could require some major engineering works if it is what I think it is. These things should not fail like this.

          The problem is almost certainly the enormous amounts of torque from the IEP and acceleration/turning stresses amplifying this in crash manoeuvres.

          This will almost certainly mean restrictions on power surging and high speed manoeuvre until some much more robust couplings are procured and fitted.

          • It’s a moot point of who wasted what really, but the period 2008 / 10 was an all round crunch on spending.
            I don’t know enough about the Army but I’m minded to see if I am surrounded by Glass before I lob a brick
            Yes the Army seemed to lose the plot, which wasted a lot of effort but I’m not sure they actually had any clarity of what they were expected to be getting ready to do anymore.
            They were thrown into fighting wars they weren’t properly equipped for, being cut and repurposed from BAOR / heavy land and sent on expeditionary wars all at the same time.
            And it wasn’t just FRES being a Fiasco, it was what wasn’t done, that has been the undoing such as a next generation MBT / SPG being ordered etc etc.
            Capabilities gapped or just allowed to wither on the vine in all 3 services and industrial coherence / confidence was hammered or obliterated in ways we now really regret. (Heavy Armour or Gun barrels).

            RN lost 3 T23 (which would have spread the tasking over more hulls) then 4 T22 (ok I agree with that one just not the pace of it), Carriers gapped for a decade, 8th Astute never finally ordered (despite the money already spent), Infrastructure renewal and the RFA pretty well allowed to …….

            And as both of you (Deep and SB) are RN orientated. It’s easy to point at the Army, but the RN have had their own major FUBAS from that period of time. And they are still biting us.

            MARS and GCS for 2. “Delays, Senior Officers with repeated rethinks, changed priorities and nothing getting actually replaced till it’s too late”.

            The 2 Carriers came at a cost, but without anything much in the way of extra funding and just remember there is no separate Navy, Army or RAF budget and hasn’t been for decades.
            Big pay item that is Politically sensitive will impact everyone, Because Politicians ensure that they get what they want rather than provide what we need.

          • Hello mate,

            whilst I am RN orientated, Im very much for the forces as a whole, and would be delighted and compelled to do some cart wheels (despite my age!) if the army ever managed to sort itself out! Having Saunders as the army head shed is a positive as far as Im concerned, he talks a lot of sense unlike the previous incumbent. Just hope that he can start steering them in the right direction.
            Yes all three services have had their fair share of procurement disasters, but, it seems like the RN/RAF have still made progress and actually delivered high projects.
            I know its one pot the spends come out of, but all three services get a slice, which may well vary year on year, but not by a significant amount. As you are only to well aware, bringing all things ‘nuclear’ into the core defence budget(thank you Cameron/Osbourne) has really crippled our spending power.

        • Hi mate. I’m with @SB on this funding issue. The largest budgeted programme over the last two decades, nuclear aside, has been the RAFs Typhoons, some £25+ billion it would appear.
          As @SB has said, the army have for whatever reasons appeared to p**s their monies up the wall over the same timeframe (FRES etc).
          If anywhere, the carriers have impacted on the navy not the other two services.

          • I can actually see validity in ordering a 3rd as an LPH at 90% size with no ramp, a missile farm in front of the forward ramp. Increase the command, medical and accommodation facilities. Partner in with Albion or Bulwark hey presto proper war fighting Amphibious task force. I’m fully aware we would need press-ganging to get crew but playing fantasy fleets.

          • I always thought that we should have replaced HMS Ocean after we sold her, but alas that never happened.

            In the spirit of fantasy fleets, I would probably have opted for a USS America type vessel , they are some 3/4 the weight of a QE class with lots of space for aviation assets and troops. Failing that, something along the lines of the SK Dokdo or French Mistral class, but build 2 instead of the one.

            I think the powers that be really need to decide what our Royals are going to used for in the future, if its just small scale raiding, or larger scale theatre entry(not likely), equip them accordingly, they are to valuable an asset to let wither and die.

          • A Mistral or Dokdo would be nice but Americas are a bit pricey😂

            Definitely need to sort out the Royals role it seem to be a do it all force but there not allowed to get to theatre. Valuable in soft and hard power.

        • Hi Rodney, I don’t call having two aircraft carriers a miracle, any more than I consider it a miracle that the army will just 148 tanks or a new infantry AFV without a cannon, or the RAF having just 7 frontline fighter squadrons.

          I had not thought that anyone would think I was advocating ordering a third carrier and associated air wing in the next year or so within existing budgets and manpower levels. Perhaps I should have made myself more clear.

          The government routinely conducts an Integrated Review or SDSR which looks at the world and its threats, then MoD produce a Defence Command Paper which outlines what sort of armed forces we need, MoD constructs an Equipment Plan, funds are lobbied for to cover procurement, support and manning…and so on. Clearly none of the above process has postulated a third carrier, so its not going to happen.

          A third carrier is just my thought and is based on:
          -the logic of replacing 3 carriers with 3 carriers (forget the 10 year hiatus and the fact that QE carriers are more capable – my ethos is platform count).
          -the rule of 3, which I think is still valid (carriers do break down/need refits/scheduled maint. (Having two carriers do not guarantee that one will always be available for ops)
          -the Global Britain era/the Asia/Pacific tilt of the US/UK
          -the fact that we might need 2 carriers on operations one day.

          Much is made of the cost of the two carriers – they cost more than they should because of political bungling but the £6.2bn represents less than 2 weeks spend on the NHS. £6.2bn is little more than the army is spending on Ajax, and is a fraction of the Dreadnought project (2016 estimate was £31bn). £6.2bn is not peanuts but it is spread over many years – if it was spent over 10 years then that is just £620m per annum. I don’t recall the details of the sacrifices made by other programmes – was anything actually curtailed or cancelled to fit in the long duration QE-class spend?

          • Why do you think that Andy? No confidence in Healey? You think Labour will just want to raid the MoD to fund the social departments of Health, Education etc? Why would the Navy get hit more than the other services?

        • Hi Rodney, as a Chartered Engineer I am interested in the comments on the support structure for the carriers. I had not realised the access problems associated with Rosyth. A huge limitation. It must add to the time taken to fix serious issues that are only within the purview of the OEM. Makes my case for 3 carriers even stronger.

          BTW, the 2010 cuts were inflicted by Cameron and Osbourne in the wake of the global financial crisis. Austrity went beyond the MoD. Cuts were surely not made so that the Navy could afford the 2 carriers – the programme money for the carriers would have been confirmed (committed) well before 2010.

          • Regarding the budget yes it was committed to well in advance unfortunately it was way below what was actually needed.
            Off the top of my head in 2007 £3.5 was allocated however by 2011 it was over £5 billion and topped out at £6.2 Billion so gulp time.
            Hence certain small Salami cuts just happened (8th Astute and 2 T45 for starters) to get made.

            As for the docking issue for more info go into Navy Lookout and search For “Queen Elizabeth Drydocking options”. I could send a link but it will get Sin Binned ☹️

            It is great article about all the options and it’s damn stupid how they ended up in this situation.
            As an engineer you’ll probably do what I did when I first read it. Swear, scratch head and mutter something about single point of failure or a £3 billion target that is a sitting duck due to the Tide Tables.
            And right next to it is another article on Babcock being awarded a 10 year contract to maintain them at Rosyth. Due to lack of options./ funding.

            However there is light at the end of the tunnel because since it was written H&W have started the long road to get back in the shipbuilding game. And they just happen to have the best option going with the “Belfast Dock” dock.

          • I have heard that quite a lot (several £bn) of the army’s FRES money was switched over to the carrier project, when the FRES programme was downsized.

            I have a soft spot for Belfast and H&W. When I visited Belfast’s Titanic Quarter a few years ago as a tourist, the Yard looked dead. Great to hear about the green shoots of revival.

        • I was not suggesting that we buy a third carrier now within exisitng budget and manpower levels. Should have signed contracts for three on 3 July 2008…and resourced an appropriate level of manpower.

  6. She has been parked up for weeks , why wasn’t routine maintenance done during the downtime to identify any issues such as this , it’s basics , as an ex maintenance engineer I would have been hauled over the coals for not doing servicing and checks when a machine was stood down

        • Exactly you can’t claim that we didn’t know till we turned it on when you didn’t know when you turned it off, unless you are remarkably unlucky with its timing that is simply lazy excuses. I know it’s a complex set of systems but after the PofW problems I have been concerned with the extra pressure on QE, that a problem of this nature would crop up and one might have thought that as such before closing down for a break such investigation would have taken place. Sure inactivity might have pushed the problem over the edge in being able to be picked up but unless that is proved to be the case other questions rightly need to be asked because it’s a bad look at the very least and the British Military have a long history of complacency (be it within or due to political pressures) in peace time over equipment that has cost us a lot once action begins and our usual brilliance in making do and compensating takes over. Bad luck maybe but as so often has been remarked you can make your own luck much of the time.

          • Precisely Spyinthesky, it is unexplainable why these checks were not made after the PoW issues and only are detected before a mission.
            It seems amateur hour after amateur hour.

        • You don’t know what is wrong with her, so you are guessing and making assumptions that the RN doesn’t know what its doing. These are incredibly complex machines that are maintained to the highest engineering standards. Things go wrong from time to time regardless of how good the engineering checks and practicess are. Or how long a vessel has been alongside. It happens to every class of warship, to every nation operating them at some point. I served on Invincible class carrier’s. Things went wrong. Sometimes things went wrong mid deployment and you came home early. I’ve seen US Navy warships stuck In port because of mechanical breakdowns. the French carrier heading home early because of faults. Somethings can be fixed quickly, other faults can’t. Its the nature of operating complex warships.

          • Morning mate…. Over on Navy Lookout there are two posters who apparently know exactly what the problem is… It’s quite interesting, I hope they don’t get censored !

          • Andy have you ever been happy or positive ?
            The QEs already have the 2 things you absolutely need to instal and use EMAL. They have plenty of Space and very Adequate Electricity Generating Capacity.
            The rest is down to an adequate Budget, good Project Management / planning, properly skilled workforce and a realistic timescale.

        • Well matey, just imagine how much logistics /maintenance involved when we had 7 carriers on the rotation. I may be wrong but, I think we (RN) coped better. I’m confident our engineers are capable, and deserve our support. Thanks DH.

          • I,m sure our naval engineers are more than capable and are some of the best in the world and this is probably down to penny pinching at the mod again . We have a 3 billion carrier laid up for the sake of a pen’orth of grease . Our navel assets are few , we need to keep what we have got in serviceable condition and ready to go if needed so all I am trying to do is make the point that this shouldn’t happen whilst it’s in dock . If it was at sea and a fault develops then fair enough

          • It must have been a lot easier back then as they actually fitted into far more available drydocks. At present it’s Rosyth or nothing and that has to be precisely timed due to the Tides. FYI that’s pretty well 11,12, 13 this month and same in March.
            Usual crap no one would spend any money on either an enlarged dock at Portsmouth or secure / upgrade / reactivate one of the more accessible options.
            That’s Belfast, Inchgreen, AP, KGV. But nothing got done (quell surprise !).

    • Maint was done along with an inspection. SME said it was OK. A further check with a Teffal headed SME identified a further (possible) issue. They erred on the side of caution and said nope cannot sail

  7. I wonder if this will have a significant impact on CSG25 training and prep. Given that QE is due for refit toward the end of this year, perhaps this won’t be too bad.

      • Agreed mate, we should all be angry with our political masters who have neglected and used and abused our 3 services for political ends. However what should we do? We should be raising it at every level of politics and media, to make some sort of effort at highlighting the neglect. But alas for the average Joe this is hard to do collectively as Mr and Mrs average “no clue” have absolutely no clue about defence and the dire straights it/they/we are currently in! I do agree with you Andy but worn out by the situation 👍

  8. Well best to know now before been on Exercise then having tugs bringing her back to port.🙄still wise choice having two rather than one when situations like this crop up .Just think if we had 3 with full AIR groups 🤗 🇬🇧

    • Yes doesn’t bear thinking about her breaking down during this exercise so above anything else I am glad it’s been picked up whatever other questions might be asked.

    • You must be joking! With only 14 aircraft, if we load all of the F35’s, how the heck is she to protect herself and crew. It means 4 F35’s flying cover, plus replacements on standby, leaving 6 for active prosecution of other targets. Thanks Conservative Government.

    • I was looking at the picture on Navy Lookout earlier, can’t see when it was taken but both carriers appear to have a different set up, well QE is missing her Phalanx on the port bow in that pic. ( just looked at the picture and it was from 2020)…. so not current.

  10. Whatever the details of the problem, this is incredibly embarrassing for the RN. The eejits on the Daily Mail will have a field day! 😣

    • Is it? Much better to identify a suspected problem before she goes out isn’t it?DM/ DE wanted her in the Red Sea flying off Typhoons so I think their’defence’ correspondents can say what they like!

        • Am I the only person who wonders when someone will ask HMG if they regret taking the Tornado GR4 OOS before we had sufficient F35 to replace them ?
          I’d love to see Scrapps blank expression on that one. Then again he doesn’t seem to like answering questions in Westminster. Or is that just my impression ?

          Happy Sunday !

          • One of the great fiddles that one.
            They expanded the Typhoon fleet to 7 Sqns as part of the withdrawal of the 3 GR4 Sqns to keep Sqn numbers up at 8, with the same number of Typhoon!

            So in reality, a bloody big cut in numbers, no matter how capable Centurion has been in replacing the capability.

      • I think it’s comforting to know we have secret squadrons of STOVL Typhoons…… now If the Daily Fail can do a piece about the Secret stash of T45’s…… 😂

      • Morning Jacko. The eejits to whom I was referring are those that comment on these Defence issues in the Mail. The Defence “correspondents “are bad enough (it’s your turn to do Defence this week Fred-I’m doing Harry and Meghan) but the comments column is populated by readers that have no clue what they are talking about and include some provocateurs who delight in mocking the British Armed Forces. It most certainly is better to ID a problem before departure but the issue is-how has this problem gone unnoticed on a major asset that should be seaworthy and at a reasonable state of readiness?
        Admittedly it has happened in the distant past with for example Invincible en route to the Falklands suffering engine/propulsion problems whilst well underway in the Atlantic. Fortunately in that instance it was sorted at sea.

  12. So once again the Royal Navy experience another shit show, in the form of a ‘broken’ carrier. “Routine checks identified an issue with a coupling on HMS Queen Elizabeth’s starboard propeller shaft”. Couplings do NOT fail as easily as this, however if and when they do, it usually means there is a far more serious underlying issue at play.

     

    Therefore in this case (as in the former) it’s probably one of the prop shafts no longer running ‘true’, or maybe a direct problem with the propellor itself, possibly as a result of cavitation. So… change the coupling, the bolts, and the prop shafts.

     

    In reality, there should be spares available (even if only one complete set per ship) which would facilitate a pretty quick turn around from diagnosis, to complete repair, then testing.

    • Nope.

      They inspected a coupling using divers. Cut away the GRP cowling and removed the waterproof grease. During the inspection they saw pitting. Photos taken and kicked upstairs to the SMEs This was in early Jan.
      SME said OK , no problem, regrease, put the cowling back on and your good to go.

      Then a teffal headed SME got involved and raised concerns about hidden pitting under the surface due to the interaction of steel and sulphur compounds and raised their concerns.

      Next thing you know is the Platform Manager has to decide if they will risk it for a biscuit and allow the vessel to sail, with a shaft issue and a shaft speed limitation or say sod it remain alongside and fix it.

      Apparently, RN Fleet went ballistic, but it was an engineering SME call not to sail, not a Fleet call.

      Its not wartime its peacetime so post Haddon-Cave Risk Management is in play. Nobody is going to sign off that issue and live with it in the risk register!

      • GB serious question but with the lack of a suitable dock in the South wouldn’t it make sense to sail it up to Belfast and stick into the H&W dry dock so the engineers can inspect it properly and remove any doubt.
        I’m not suggesting it for a fix (maybe one day) but just a docking for a thorough inspection. That account sounds a lot to me like conjecture and being risk averse without certainty. And my sport is diving and nothing looks the same underwater as it does on the surface not even colours.

        • You would have to ask H&W. However you would also need the shore side infrastructure that probably isn’t there. Force Protection is a must. Sea Water main at thousands of litres a min running at 14 bar for fire and cooling systems. Back up fire main,HP/LP air supplies dried to a suitable level, HV Power supplies… A lot of HV Power supplies, Sewage discharge, Garbage disposal, Potable fresh water…and thats before you do any engineering.

          I have assisted with many UW surveys and repair works on RN/RFA ships. The video and pictures from survey work is very good and you can see if there is an issue. The problem with QE is apparently what cannot be seen ie the pitting under the surface by the interaction of the steel with sulphur compounds.

    • H&W will be an alternative once they are back up and building ships again. After all they have probably the best accessible huge Dry Dock in U.K.

  13. Hi folks hope all is well.
    When I first read this I thought it must be April fools day.
    What on earth is going on? Isn’t this the same issue with HMS Prince of Wales? There must be questions and an investigation of the building of these carriers to have similar issues. How can this happen again on the sister ship? The cost of repair will fall on the tax payers. There must be accountability of those responsible for the design and build.
    Apart from this, how embarrassing this is to the nation….we were mockin Russia over its one and only aircraft carrier having a tug on standby for breakdowns.
    Cheers
    George

  14. I’m beginning to think that the best defence decision we can make is to sell these two to Japan. They would be equipped with aircraft in no time and have a fleet of thirty odd destoryers to look after them.😡

      • I know Robert. It’s only taken us ten years so far to get to a whole squadron of eight onto two carriers with propellor problems.😕

          • I’m sorry Robert but you’re going to have to tell me waht has been achieved. The first evalauation unit formed in 2014, the first squadron of eight aircraft in 2018, the OCU in 2019. Since then we done nothing. Five yeras. The next squadron was due to form last year and slipped to 2024 and now to the end of 2025(?). We have two carriers one that has had trouble with her prop shaft and now the other one. Add to that underarmed T45’s and probably only four or five T23’s avialable. I think we are entitled to suggest that we are in a mess.

          • If you don’t understand, or can’t appreciate what has been achieved with carrier strike, after 10 years of no carriers at all. Introducing two new 65 thousand tonne vessels into service and a growing fleet of 5th gen F35’s and everything that entails from nothing. Then I’m not wasting my time writing a long explanation. The carriers have a 50-year life. We have barely scratched the surface of what these vessels and F35 will be able to do. We have two carriers. POW will put to sea in under a week to replace QE. No other Navy has the capacity to do that except the US Navy. I’ll leave that thought with you.

          • Exactly, most militaries around the world would love to be in a position to have the “issues”we have, if we had just 1 carrier that could not be deployed until maintenance was finished then we would still be in a better position than most, the fact that we have 2 means that we can still deploy a carrier in a decent timeframe. If we missed this issue during checks after something similar recently happened to the PoW and it broke down during the deployment then that would be a bigger issue.

          • I am soory Robert, once again. I know you cannot or will not except any criticism of the armed forces and to some extent you’re right. It’s not the armed forces that are most at fault. It is twenty five years of political ineptitude. However I find it extremely difficult to understand how you can be content with what has happened to our forces ovet that time Acquisition, funding, recruitment are all being hit every year. How can we maintain our forces if this continues? Pepole are leaving the forces at three times the rate they’re joining Every report that comes out of The CDC, NATO and RUSI is critical of the state we are in.

          • I’m not content with what is happening. But lots of other nations are going through exactly the same problems with recruitment and retention. Have the government made mistakes. Yes. Definitely. Would lots of other nations like the problems we have, yes they would, because they would love to have aircraft carriers, and Astute class boats and T45’s and F35s/Typhoons ect. We have a huge equipment program in progress. I know you care Geoff, but to make statements like no progress has been made with carrier strike is plane wrong. And Labour wouldn’t have done any better. But with all the money the world, building up carrier strike with new vessels and aircraft is a hugely complex task. You’ve mentioned Japan a couple of times and new destroyers ect. Were are they then? not in the Red Sea shooting down anti ship missiles are they. We are.

          • You are not content so we’ve moved on I think. Unfortunaetly you have also reverted to the argument you have used so often before…. “other countries would like to have our problems” etc. The one thing I cannot seem to get you to grasp is that I don’t care about them. I care about our services and our people. To say that we have one destroyer in the Gulf shooting down drones or four Typhoons that can hit the Yemen does not cover up the levels of problems facing OUR ARMED FORCES. If we were in such a good state people wouldn’t be leaving in their thousands.

  15. We have denuded our engineering base so far that very expensive warships are forever in refits and repairs…not withstanding the fact we are struggling to recruit in the armed services or even reserves. The conservatives need to held accountable (and yes I was a former conservative voter). They need utterly destroying in the next election for what they have done to this country. I never thought I would utter those words as a centre right voter but I have come to the conclusion they not salvageable as a party as they have morphed into the liberal democrats in terms of ethos.

    George Osbourne is responsible for this shambles as he started the cuts to the armed services. I might add I met a very senior set of bankers in the city of London and they all said unanimously that he was an moron when it came to finance as well…They had some unkind words about Lord Cameron as well. Saying that I’m dreading Labour getting in and foisting further DE&I on the armed services, and this country, to denude their capability further. However, I understand that a Labour government is a necessary evil to save the conservatives longer term from themselves. Our porous borders, rainbow happy police who eat their big macs whilst policing the internet for thought crimes….when will this shear madness end? Jean Jacques Rousseau stated in “The confessions” the following famous phrase: Qous deus vult perdere prius dementat. Oh how true those words ring now….

      • I think the recent good “Christian” convert on our news now was the final nail for me with the Conservatives. I will never vote Conservative again as they have made this country unsafe with young men that we know nothing about. Moreover, their views are straight from the medieval period. We have more charity for the waifs, strays and terrorists of the third world than we do for our own native English people. This “charity” of the upper middle class and upper class will literally kill this country in the next ten years. My brother was made homeless recently after a bad “asset stripping” divorce (only part of law where there is no equality for men). He paid £750,000 in tax since the age of 16. Does he get a hand up – no – they are too busy looking after those that come illegally over the seas…I managed to help him back on track with his life so he didn’t stay long on the streets thank god. No thanks to this British hating Conservative party that hates our own native people. Time to dismantle the 1951 UN asylum law and also the HRA and the ECHR as they are no fit laws for the 21st Century. We need laws not utopia but for how the world the world actually is these days and human nature. Everything, and I mean everything, that Tony Blair did damaged this country beyond repair (immigration, pensions, PFI, degrading military capacity, expansion of welfare to the world, DE&I, equalities act, messing around the HoL, the supreme court etc), Cameron was the heir to Blair and finished us off…after that moron Theresa May, liar Boris, gormless Liz Truss and now this complete fool and US green card holder Sunak..waiting to hot foot it to the US to work for a hedge fund when he is kicked out of power. However, joy of joys we get to have Sir Kneel A lot…when Labour get in power….another carbon copy Blairite liar…. We wonder why we have no military when the benefits bill for all the Dr’s, nurses and lawyers that are from overseas…clearly working bringing the brightest and best (tongue firmly in cheek). The benefits bill for foreigners alone in London is bigger than the defence budget….no you know why we can’t afford to pay soldiers properly.

        • Hello Andrew, that was an informative post. I honestly don’t know how to address the points you raise. This is a mess of the first order. A sad(and avoidable) state of affairs.

  16. It’s good this was found early and before the shaft failed, fingers crossed it will be a bit easier and less costly to deal with the misalignment over a completely failed shaft.

  17. Sounds suspiciously like what happened to the PoW but they caught it before significant secondary damage occurred. Hopefully she can be repaired without an extended stay in dry dock,

  18. I suppose warships never broke down in your day eh Andy. I’ve never seen you take to these pages when the CDG has broken down on many occasions, and the French don’t have a 2nd carrier to deploy. Or when the catapults have failed on the USS Ford. Or the countless other times NATO warships have run into technical issues. Or the fleet of tugs that follow most Russian vessels around.

    • So if you served in the RN, then you should bloody well know better than the cheap comments you come out with. I’ll lecturer anyone when they are talking rubbish.

  19. Saddest thing is…. HMS Somerset sat outside in the Solent…. waiting for the QE to come out !!!…. I got a proper tear in my eye truth be known !

  20. They can quickly transfer key personnel and stores, but PoW will still sail missing a lot of important equipment that is only fitted to QE. This is due be relocated from QE to POW during a maintenance period in the Autumn. I assume PoW will serve in Ex Steadfast Defender primarily as a flagship, with a minimal or largely virtual “air group”. The big question now is will it be worth repairing QE, or will she just be reduced to low readiness pending her refit next year. It could also be embarrassing if the Yanks have been promised that she is available for deployment to the Red Sea in the spring if required.

  21. What a surprise.

    One of our two carriers is unable to deploy due to a ‘mechanical issue’.

    Just when there was the possibility of it being deployed to a ‘danger zone’.

    I know that this ship was supposed to be going on exercise, but that may have led to questions as to why it wasn’t going to the Red Sea. A ‘mechanical issue’ means that it can’t go anywhere, and it can stay safely tucked up in the UK.

    Do the Government/MoD think we were born yesterday?

        • Really what you wrote is so far out there it’s quite frankly stupid! I know let’s make up engineering faults on the hoof,not to mention that POW can take up the tasking,is she going to develop a fault next week when she is due to sail?

          • I’ll ignore your naive insult, but if “the issue was found due to increased checks after recent issues with sistership HMS Prince of Wale”, why wasn’t it picked up, and resolved, well in advance of the due departure date?

            The POW may well be able to take up the tasking, but neither of these carriers will ever be placed in a ‘danger zone’. The Government/MoD cannot risk serious damage to, let alone the loss off, them.

          • 😂what ever,you do realise that an order to falsify inspections on HM warships would have to come from the very top don’t you? That’s the PM,DS,1SL all the way down to the engineering officer who put his name to the report, what are the odds in that order not being made public? Anyway GB further down this thread should satisfy your suspicions.

          • I assume by GB, you mean Gunbuster? If so, then where did he get his information from, and has he signed the Official Secrets Act, (OSA)? This leads me to your other point. Have you heard about the OSA? It exists to cover up all sorts of dodgy dealings, and yes – the order to falsify inspections on HM warships will come from the VERY top, and will then be covered up by the OSA. By very top, I mean the Prime Minister, and the Secretary of State for Defence. There is simply too much political prestige invested in these carriers to place them at risk. The country couldn’t afford to replace one, let alone two, and they are key to what, (post-BREXIT), the politicians call ‘Global Britain’.

          • Yes I signed it many many decades ago (over 4)
            Trying to get someone on the OSA is nigh on impossible nowadays. That said I always take care with what I am posting. If its not public already I don’t post it. If it affects OPSEC, Ships Movements or equipment performance I don’t post it.

            OSA doesn’t and cannot apply to info that enters the public domain..because… err…its already public.
            The info I gave had already been posted on the t’internet WWW of stuff from an engineer with detailed knowledge of the issue. The post was latterly pulled down after a few hours. I offered up a precis of it.

            Buy some more tinfoil.

          • Very interesting Gunbuster. Many thanks for this background information. I also appreciate your sense of humour – tinfoil. Good one. We may have to agree to disagree on the real reason why the POW hasn’t been sent to join the NATO exercise, and why – if it’s true – the fault wasn’t identified and corrected earlier, but my fundamental point is that neither of the UK’s carriers will ever be deployed to a high risk part of the world.

  22. Royal Navy pioneering the procurment concept of buying two carriers but only ever having one available.
    Must be the most expesive class of carrier ever devised even compared to the US Navy, billions have been spent on two ships but in effect only getting the one.
    Can you imagine the fallout if half the capital ships were unavailable on the eve of Jutland or Trafalga; today it’s just a shrug the shoulders and policicans mouth some words.

  25. The carriers are the biggest PR stunt the armed forces have in ‘peace time’. The fact that we don’t appear to be able to deploy one to the gulf when its badly needed is telling and highlighting how bare bone the navy has become both in regards to lack of available escorts and supply ships.

    Breaking down again isn’t going to help with those reputational issues.

    • Phew!! that was a close run thing – in a mad moment i thought I heard someone suggest we may have deployed one to the Red Sea to replace the US Carrier with not a thought about how we would defend them from the mighty Houthies or what a small handfull of F35s might achieve compared to the many F18’s and E2Ds available on the US Carrier.Thank goodness we have just found this problem in the nick of time so we won’t be sending one anywhere now. But,someone asks, wasn’t protection of our trade routes and othe National interests the primary raison d’etre for these ships?.err yes but!

      • I assume the intention was to load it with american f35s and try and get allies to provide the escorts. Saying that a single t45 and 12 uk f35 would have been fine for the job, it’s not like the UK is going to replace the IS carrier and try and equal its hundreds of strike missoons its launched the last few weeks. More likely just provide a bit of air defence for the region.

        • I would not be surprised if the US commanders in the region were not the ultimate cause of this ‘mechanical’ issue. They’ve probably told us that the US navy cannot provide the necessary assets to defend what would just be a publicity stunt when they have a real job to do defending themselves and merchant ships.

          • I think the mechanical issues are valid, relying on one support vessel that is ancient was never a solid plan. I do however suspect that your right that the US declined to fill the gap. As we know there was a meeting in Washington about uk support and it was rumoured the QE would be deployed and then nothing happened, my assumption is your right and the UK went there hoping for support to plaster over the gaps and the US declined, as they have their own PR issues with Biden looking weak so US lead deployment in the region counters that.

    • Gulf or Red Sea? Can you point to any articles that said we were actually going to send a carrier to either of them? ( not DM/DE)

  26. Give it a break mate, your posts are no longer constructive or informative just victor meldrew chuff! In your day im sure the Leanders or Rosethay/Whitby etc class never broke down. Yes our forces are suffering a severe case of political neglect, but if you look at all 3 services we still have capacity and capabilities, albeit in dwindling numbers, second only or on par with the US! Do we need more, yes of course, is it easy to moan your pint is empty yes, but harder to get off your arse and walk to the bar to find a solution…….

    • I remember the leanders, they had to weigh everything to make sure they didn’t capsize, lusty bus also had her problems straight out of the walker shipyard, she damaged her front aircraft lift in the med, among other problems.

    • Second only or on a par with the US? I find that a bit questionable we have fewer soldiers than the US would use to secure a small market town, and far far fewer artillery pieces or aerial assets than the US would use to deploy that number of soldiers. The RAF has less than half the number of fast jets than the US Marines not the US Navy, the US Marines. (In fact the US Marines has as many personnel as our entire Armed forces.)

      We have fewer fighter aircraft than the French or the Germans, considerably less capable Navy than the French.

      And let’s look at China (With their 100+ Major surface combatants, 300 5th generation fighters, and 1000 4th gen, 300 strategic bombers….3rd behind us maybe?) if they invaded Taiwan and we ‘joined’ the US in opposing that, China wouldn’t even notice – our aircraft carriers when they work, have no AEW (and no the Crows Nest with it max Altitude of 15k feet doesn’t count) and no means to refuel aircraft that have a very short range, i.e they’d need to be so close to their targets Chinese anti ship missile teams might die of the embarrassment of the task given to them.

      • But if a late response but I will reply anyway. You are unfortunately just counting numbers and you will see in my post I cite capabilities not numbers. Numbers do have a quality of their own but like I said we have niche capabilities second only to the US, and if you cannot see that do a little more research into the military.

  27. After years of one bad thing after another these ships were probably the worst thing that has ever happened to the Royal Navy. They’ve soaked up an awful lot of money that would have been better spent elsewhere, and now just provide the navies of the world (allied and hostile) nice little jokes like this every so often.

    The Royal Navy has been in decline for years as we all know, the decline is now terminal – no one asking for a budget increase for the senior service for the next 20 years will get anything other than derisive laughter as a reply.

  30. Seriously makes one wonder where all the money’s gone? You know, since we’re still technically the 6th or 7th richest country in the west. It’s almost like it’s being taken out of the economy and hoarded in offshore banks…??

  31. PoW is due to sail from Portsmouth on Sunday 18 Feb. That is a pretty impressive performance, but it will be interesting to see what air group (if any) she embarks.

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