RFA Lyme Bay is set to be fitted with new uncrewed mine countermeasures systems, enabling the ship to operate as a mothership for autonomous minehunting equipment, the Royal Navy has said.
The Bay-class vessel will receive the technology during a period in Gibraltar, where it will be configured to store, deploy and recover a range of uncrewed systems, including underwater vehicles and minehunting boats. The upgrade follows the ship being brought to heightened readiness in recent weeks.
Once fitted, Lyme Bay will be able to act as a forward base for mine countermeasures operations, using a plug-and-play command and control system to coordinate multiple autonomous platforms. The systems are designed to detect, identify and neutralise mines without exposing personnel directly to the threat.
“RFA Lyme Bay preparing for a possible minehunting mothership role is a perfect example of how we are building a Hybrid Navy,” said First Sea Lord General Sir Gwyn Jenkins. “By harnessing autonomous technology we are ensuring the Royal Navy remains at the forefront of underwater defence.”
Captain Mark Colley, the Commanding Officer of Lyme Bay, added:
“The RFA is a crucial support arm of the Royal Navy and being able to act as an MCM mothership once again shows how we can adapt to the operational demand where needed. I am proud of the work my ship’s company has done to prepare RFA Lyme Bay, and be ready to embark this kit. Having recently returned to high readiness, we have been put through our paces but I know we are ready to support this autonomous uncrewed kit so as to play an important role in its use.”
That’s one less of the three for doing other missions.
So the hybrid navy is not going to add new ships, it’s existing ships with bolt ones? The sale of one to Australia now seems shortsighted, but I don’t imaging Korea would charge much for a similar ship?
To think, Albion or Bulwark had docks that could do that. Ocean could have been converted to a drone launcher and Himars parked on the deck could fire PrSM.
The B1 Rivers are going. Shrinking fleet, no new money.
smoke and mirrors, more demanned from less, most statements are about hidden cuts dressed up as up grades. We are for ever cutting ships and kit but are still skint. Where does the so called money saved go?
Goes to the cunts sat on their arses pretending to be sick… Like has anyone actually gotten the Total Budget and audited the areas.?
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A Bay class has been acting as an MCM mother ship in the gulf almost continuously since 2003. I agree that selling one of the four was a daft idea because they are so useful but right now we need a big asset to send to the gulf to support our world beating anti mine system and the bays are perfect for the task.
The Gulf is a high threat area though, as is the mission so a Bay would need an escort or it’s own frigate level self defence.
That’s the issue. The UK Govt could order a large mothership vessel with a T31 weapons fit now, for delivery in 5 years, but has no intention to do so
MCM is an important task but dedicating such an important ship to that task isn’t very smart. It works when there are no conflicts but as soon as conflicts start, you lose either MCM or amphibious warfare as the ship can’t do both at the same time.
You can ask the RAN nicely if they’ll sell now HMAS Choules back to you. It resides here in Sydney harbour. It looks a slightly different shade of grey than before. If LB is successful maybe the RAN will try her out for hybrid MCM if they haven’t already?
Illuminating post on NLO regarding the announcement of 2028 as the OSD for the batch 1 Rivers. It’s a tactic to force the Treasury to finance T31s service entry before 2030.
Hopefully it might force them to order a few more T31s. Especially post US-Iran conflict and if UK l still will source oil via Hormuz and still want to transit via Red Sea and the Suez. Both transits have beliggerants enroute.
They would be really clapped out, but if the RN had announced an (achievable) OSD date of 2030 for the B1 Rivers it would have encouraged the Treasury to further delay funding for the new frigates. It’s all part of the way the game is played. Treasury budget constraints will always act to minimise purchase of ‘gold plated’ assets like T26 and favour ‘supermarket’ buy-on-price weapons like T31.
Will she receive any defensive up dates? after all sht will be a prime target and we are limited in escorts. Great to see the navy moving on and getting with the times.
The Toy Navy is getting ready to blow away Iranian sea mines; I doubt Trump will acknowledge the fact.
We willl be one the best at it, but still think its not our fight, but its good to see people in the navy thinking ahead to do more with less
The problem with the Bays is that they are not MILSPEC DC. They also have a huge freeboard which will show up like of block of flats on a basic radar.
Whereas something smaller…..like a survey vessel would be easier to reduce RCS on….or even dare I say it a River……
This is where the Albions etc would have been more than useful.
There does need to a real conversation about how conventional navy is ring-FENCED from DNO so that it isn’t just cut every time DNO expands.
This is why we need the type 32. A frigate able to operate drones easily with a stern ramp but able to provide air cover via missiles and medium caliber cannons like the boffors 40mm.
Indeed this is exactly what the LCS was suppose to be before the Pentagon and Congress turned it into a 4,000 tone unarmed speed boat/ job creation program.
The navy needs to drastically reduce the MRSS program to two large ships and get the type 32 program back.
Problem is that both are needed.
What isn’t needed is an over complex camel that try’s to address both uses and fails and thereby becomes over complex and over expensive.
This will lead to a class that is cut early as it is over specialist to crew and therefore ‘expensive’.
So yes to T32 and MRSS as we need a much bigger surface fleet in spite of what Hugo etc will pop up and say.
The last month or so have been a humiliating wake up call but like all unpleasant medicine it can be a positive.
I agree we need an amphibious ship and that it will have to have its own missile protection capabilities but I don’t think we need 6 of them and they should not be mascarading as some half frigate/ strike ship.
Steel is cheap, air is free and an RM commando is not that big. Two or three large vessels is plenty. We can build them up to 40,000(t) with out too much difficulty.
It’s make do and mend, while dealing with cut after cut dressed up as money saving. When the money saved just vanishes
A competent ally and/or a T45 will have to provide Lyme Bay with naval protection. Would it help if the US took Qeshm Island with its airport and deployed drone and anti-cruise missile defences?
Problem is if USMC take a small island there is a small attack surface and Iran will bombard that small surface with waves of anything and everything until the marines withdraw. If you send 100’s of missiles/drones and 5% get through they is a lot of kinetic damage.
I always thought the rivers would make perfect little mine warfare and sub surface monitoring motherships.. a good Crane and big work deck and plenty of space to take the shipping container control centre.
Talking of “Albion”, how bad a condition is she in? Is she afloat, mechanicals, electrical, plumbing okay? If reasonable spend a few quid anf fix her up. Put back Phalanx’s, Artisan, add 30/40 or 57mm, NSM/CAMM, build a hangar and you’ve got a pre MRSS/drone mothership. They refitted the Argus so should be able to do the same for the Albion. Sorry for repeating a previous post on this here.
If Albions hadn’t been stripped maybe.
Bulwark could have been brought back no question as she was mostly refitted.
If she’s been stripped things can be added back in. There’s got to be a spare pool of Artisan, 30mm and Phalanx’s lying around. Add a hangar like on Lyme Bay for helos and drones. It’ll be like a super-sized Bay mothership and I reckon they could get it done within a year. And very useful well dock.
The navy isn’t thinking ahead. It’s Labour doing things on the cheap. The R.M.’s are being quietly removed from any real amphibious role at the same time.
How do you figure that?
What did labour do to influence the availability of MCM units in the gulf. What could they have done after 18 months in power to influence such a thing?
The die was set over a decade ago on that.
Even if repayments had been ordered in late 00s they would only have been coming into service mid 20’s…
I was responding to the article Jim, but you’re right. Apart from getting rid of Argus, Albion and Bulwark. the government hasn’t done anythng to the R.N. Absolutely nothing about anything. Perhaps the DIP will mention something in the future. To br fair they haven’t done anything for the other services either.
It’s cuts dressed up as some thing ekse, with millions saved but never seen again. It’s about money nothing else. Ie get by with bare minimum and hope we never need fight
Agreed – the great British improvisation culture…
We kind of have to we are always the skint under dog who gets the job done, just in time
The vanishing face of government Martin. Well, Healey seems to have disappeared anyway.
Thy all hide and talk in double minister words but fail to address any thing abd it’s never their fault which to a degree is true it’s took 30 years to get to this mess.Labour are just adding to r it by retiring things as fast as they can with no replacements to save money that’s never seen again.
You’re not wrong Martin. One DefSec. after another, all promising whatever it is the day they have to have a sound bite…and goodbye until the next time.
Its got to the point no one even listens to them any more its all lies, fake news etc, sad sad state of a nation. One day when we need defence it will not be able to do the job, and that will cost lives many lives that is were we are heading.
After his shocking performance on LBC, Labour need to smell the coffee and get rid of the idiot, useless in opposition demonstrably idiotic in Government.
As are they all in recent years…sadly.
Ha! Did you hear him on the radio, Geoffrey? Not a clue at the forces under his watch.
Disgraceful. Another non entity like most of the Cabinet.
To be totally fair to LBC it was a pretty soft ball he was bowled about how many active frigates and destroyers there were.
Destroyers
2 – activate
1 – working up – Daring long
3 – various stages of maintenance.
Frigates
3 – active
1 – working up
3 – various stages of maintenance
2 – late stage fitout
2 – early stage fitout
2 – late stage hull build
2 – early stage stage hull build.
7 – either no started or just hull modules
Even I know that much….
And project Napier / PiP is public domain so he can say that out loud just as he can say which T31/26 are in the water or in the shed.
I didn’t but it doesn’t surprise me. I have heard about it though. What a motley crew we have had as defence secs. over the years. Maybe it’s some sort of government punishment. Upset the PM and you get defence! 🫣
Hmm, preparing for the post war period in the Gulf per-chance..?
It will be interesting to see how this develops. Does it represent a turning point for the RN’s once formidable Mine Counter Measures capability? If these systems prove at least as effective as the Hunt and Sandown classes with the flexibility to deploy by air and operate from shore bases it will represent a significant step forward.
Good news that we seems to be able to kit out a Bay class, assuming it is a full capability…
Cheers CR
PS the local politics program is headlining with a piece on the state of the Royal Navy..! Things to seem to be changing with talk of “needing to prepare for war!”
Mainstream news is that more money needs to be spent on RN…which is good….
Agreed. The presenter was brutally clear about the state of the RN, which is all to the good.
They also had a Green politician on the program and the presenter pressed her on their Defence policy. He laboured the point that they wanted to cut Defence spending. She tried to wriggle out of the point by saying Defence included Climate Change, cyber, etc… Load of rubbish and the presenter pushed the issue until she admitted that they plan to cut ‘military’ spending by 50% for gods sake. Madness. For Greens read Pacifistic CND nutters..! 50% ..!!!!!! Putin would love that..!
Cheers CR
I know a few on here who support the Greens.
They’re silent.
Oh sorry: Prefer the Greens to Nazi Nigel, Putins Puppet.
Hi Dern.
That’s fine, each to their own politics. On the subject of Defence Reform state the 2.5% like others.
On Nigel, having had 3 conversations with him now over the years, way back to when he was UKIP, I see no Nazi myself. But one persons Nazi to others is just a bloke who wanted to leave the EU and has strong feelings about the levels of immigration we have had the last 30 years.
As I and millions of others feel the same.
You’re effectively saying then that both me and my wife and all those millions are also Nazis?
On that type of blind prejudice, We had one bloke with us at Margate that was a WW2 veteran out talking to people on doors, and he and I were both described as “fascists” by people who knew sod all about us. And this guy had fought for the nation. At the hotel I was photographed with one UKIP supporter who looked just out of the Taliban catalogue, and there were several black guys there as well.
And UKIP are all racist, so we hear!
Nope, not at all.
Ok! Greens for you.
But never for me, not on their attitude to drugs, the nuclear deterrent, their plan to get rid of so much of the military, and other quite crackpot theories.
And ironically, I’m a wildlife gardener, who protects all wildlife that comes my way, and has created a haven for everything from Bees to Hedgehogs and Foxes, who feels strongly on environmental issues, and all animal welfare generally. Yet I’m a “Nazi” as I am a Reform supporter, and a “Facist” to those who throw accusations about ( like those people we met in Margate ) yet actually know sod all about the person.
OK!
Sorry, that last paragraph I got side tracked from my main point, with all those views and attitudes of mine, I should be Green as well. But they’ve moved beyond the environment with their politics to the far left.
There’s a word for people in Germany who were not racist, didn’t hate jews, and didn’t buy into Hitlers rhetoric but still voted for him and supported his party because they liked his economic policy. That word is Nazi. (And FYI most people who met Hitler seemed to think he was a decent guy in the 30’s).
“He and I were both described as fascists by people who know sod all about us.” They know one thing: You support a fascist party. And sorry to break it to you, you can be the best person on the planet but if you are suppporting a fascist party that makes you a fascist, and it’s not bigoted to point it out.
Standard for the far left.
Disarm.
No nuclear.
No military.
Offended by the UK being somebody on the world stage, and offended by our history.
They terrify me, as do many on Labour’s back benches waiting to take over.
It’s interesting because I always wanted to support the greens, as my first career and degree was environmental science and I’m a firm believer in management of the environment and global warming, but I’ve never once voted for them as I could not due to their defence stance and some other questionable policies around managing drug addiction.
Agreed, the Greens have blown all chances of getting widespread support for tackling essential environmental issues by adapting a load of unrelated leftie issues. Environmentalism is neither left or right, it’s simply enlightened self-interest for mankind.
Completely agree…many people seem to forget a species that outgrows it’s environment then destroys it’s environment.. it shorty after suffers catastrophic population loss..
The Green Party essentially being taken over by the hard left is very unfortunate.. because I no longer see a party remaining everyone of the hard true of the necessity of stewardship of the environment and instead we have a party more interested in far left social policy and a geopolitical stance that seems to essentially any old anti western paradigm that floats along.
Well, if it’s a choice between hard left anti-Western policy, or hard right anti-western policy, I’d prefer Hard-Left. They at least care about people in the UK beyond creating scape goats and going down the old Nazi route of “it’s the minority’s fault, vote for us and we’ll get rid of them, just don’t ask us for details.”
Yes but I just like a nice social Democratic Party.. that’s good on defence and not irredeemably sold out to the neoliberal blob.. it’s not that much of an ask.
Would be nice. Sadly it seems like that is too much of an ask.
The problem is that some people are so self-cantered and selfish that they prefer to endanger the future of humanity rather than make some inconvenient changes to their lifestyles.
Really? Because it’s starting to look like upcoming elections might be a race between Green and Reform instead of Labour and Tory….
The upcoming elections are meaningless. The only ones that count are the general elections and the ones for the stupid devolved assemblies. Whichever government is in power, it always gets a kicking in local elections. Then more often than not, it gets reelected at the next general election.
The Greens are a busted flush because they chose a failed actor turned con-man as their leader.
Reform is busted because Farage is seen as an extremist through both his policies and his closeness to the pedophile in the White House.
Other countries elect far-left and far-right regimes, but the British public have always shown themselves to be more interested in pragmatic common-sense than ideological crusades.
Labour will get a deserved good kicking – BUT – I think Reform will suffer in the some of the seats they hold now because those voters will see them for witless scum-bags they really are – cutting budgets, sacking staff, awarding themselves pay rises… and that may well come back to haunt them at the General Election because Farage as in garage is a one man band, strong on rhetoric but poor in leadership.
The state of the Royal Navy will hit naval towns and quite possibly other military towns into the bargain but people will begin to see through the racism and incitement to hatred at the next GE, in the meantime, Labour takes a kicking and yet…
And yet they have pulled a fast one – Parliament will be prorogued for the King’s speech and that means, the stupid left wing of the Labour Party will not be able to organise as effectively as they might have through they could do should Parliament have been sitting; furthermore, Raynor and Streeting are up against it as the public actually approve of Starmer telling the Americans, politely, to do one – and once the US body bags begin going home, more people will see Starmer as having played this one right.
What he has to do after the local elections is re-org’d his Cabinet with Healey shown the door and yet Starmer will not promote Al Carns, Starmer is astute like that, and yet Carns will become a stalking against Starmer. Interesting times.
I agree.
Whut?
It’s a job they’ve done before, but we really need as much amphibious shipping as we can get.
My thoughts as well. They’re not built to military standards, so why should we not do what was done with Proteus and Stirling Castle – buy an OSV and convert it.
Great.
An example of a hybrid navy, says the 1SL.
Yes, flexibility is good, and these are good vessels.
But you’re deflecting again, aren’t you?
Or…an example of DESPERATION as you take an asset from it’s intended role and improvise, as you have nothing else to use so HMG can GRANDSTAND at how we are “stepping up” when inevitably the RN USVs are actually deployed into the Gulf, as some imbecile in HMG/HMT still hasn’t got off their backside and green lighted funding for the 3 dedicated mother vessels to be ordered.
Echo Sqn of the MTXG was reported deployed there weeks ago, with a whole 8 personnel…
Using a Bay as a mother has been standard for years in the Gulf. It was hoped that they could all go back to doing their main role, amphibious support, especially as in the meantime Ocean, Albion, Bulwark have all gone.
Leaving the UK with what? 1 vessel in role? Or none? If the other two are laid up or in refit?
An even greater horror will be if Phase 2 of MCM capability has been watered down and the mothers aren’t coming.
This also says a lot about the usefulness of HMS Stirling Castle, which was reported to be for UK waters only.
As always, threadbare.
And while I’m in full flow, you have offered our 3 Batch 1 Rivers to Uraguay. Replacement?
No doubt, withdrawl of some of the River B2s. That’s not replacement, that is standard MoD/HMG robbing Peter to pay Paul, just as seen here, as you use existing assets to replace.
And the fleet drops further.
Said River B1s are being used to intercept Russian vessels in the UK EEZ.
Tell me, what will you use once they are gone…a Dinghy?
Hybrid, remember……1SL?
Pathetic.
The ongoing level of cuts is quite frightening in a period of threat ratcheting up.
The sake and scrapping of the Albions is nonsense in an era of lack of hulls.
The loss of Argus and the lack of deployment of the other Bays and Tide is also bonkers and means a lack of presence. Lack of presence leads to vacuums that others fill.
Same with moving to sell the Rivers which are useful for UK EEZ escort work and training.
The issue is the huge drop in hull numbers and no real likelihood of any T31s being full in service until the end of the decade now. I really hope that is wrong.
Interesting post on NLO regarding the OSD of 2028 for the B1 Rivers and the 2030 statement that Venturer will enter service in 2030. Supposedly these are bids in a poker game played by the MOD and the Treasury. Who is bluffing and who will blink first?
Terrifying is the only way of expressing that.
Poker is not a grown up defence game.
RN needs more warships and getting rid of the cheapo ones before all the decent ones are in service is beyond loopy.
The poker analogy was mine; politics and bluff might have been better phrasing. The NLO post describes the structural change in MOD procurement methodology that the govt is trying to achieve; among other things a clear distinction between ‘commodities’ e.g. T31 GP frigates, which are bought competitively on price and ‘circus acts’ like T26 ASW frigates, which involve technologies very few companies know how to make.
Stirling Castle is what she is, a cheaply built merchant ship with nothing beyond the legal minimum civilian structural, fire and damage resistance standards built in.
A burst from an AK47 to the bridge would render her inoperative.
OPERATION DESPERATION
Yep, at this rate the Royal Marines will likely just get chucked in to rub along with 16 AAB , they might bring a few dinghies I suppose!
All their amphibious shipping is rapidly disappearing.
I remember so well the mid 1990s when Amphibious shipping was going through a great renaissance period..
Ocean, Albion, Bulwalk, four Bay class, all ordered and under construction….
Now down to two bloody ageing Bays as one gets robbed as a Mine Countermeasures ship and potential large unarmed drone and missile target!!
Better get some 40mm bofors mounts on her at the very least!!!
The guy sesms to have his priorities right, but he can stop with the BS – any pretending should stop. We are small, we are in trouble, we are broke. Taking a ship from Peter to pay Paul won’t change that.
RFA plugging gaps once again, whilst on the verge of strike action too. Funny old thing that these unsung heroes are being asked to step in, whilst some of the low to middle ranks currently are working below the national minimum wage. Also I wonder if Healey knows how many ships the RFA currently have operating due to manning issues.
They only got back above the legal minimum 80% manning levels by laying half the ships up.
One slight positive of the current desperate lack of surface warships is that the RN is temporarily in a reasonable place manning wise. E.g. QE has been kept nearly fully crewed despite not being operational for two years.
Another day, another unmanned wunderwaffe
Back to the Gulf she goes it would seem – but probably not for a few weeks yet. Also RFA Proteus unexpectedly arrived in Gib today (Sunday) for reasons not yet obvious, but presumably she’s eastwards bound. And MV Hartland Point has oddly been berthed in Gib since 28/2.
Why does this autonomous mine clearance sound like a make it up as you go along endeavour to me, we decommissioned most of our mine countermeasures ships but don’t appear to have thought through the fact we need a mothership, just see what’s available at the time and as the government has recently found out ( a surprise to no one except the government), the navy and RFA don’t have many
I’ve had posters tell me they don’t even need them and can operate from the coast.
Which they can, in some situations.
So why a mothership now then?
That’s the funny thing they are designed to be operated by an air and land mobile control centre..
What it suggests to me is that they have decided a static control centre siting in a gulf port is essentially at target waiting to be hit..the Russians would find it pass it onto the Iranians and it’s dead..
At least a mother ship can hide and move around a couple of hundred miles out in the Arabian Sea…
What it shows is the whole concept of the port based control is not going to work very well..
A control centre in a shipping container waiting to get blown up.
Not if you add 9 more around it and put on layers of Concrete Canvas interlaced with rebar; surrounded by HESCO and someone is going to spend an awful long time and many munitions trying to pick the right one and eliminate it – alternatively, do that as well as actually control the mine hunters from the sea – useful diversion of Russian / Chinese assets as they play find the real control centre and get their client States to waste munitions on a dummy site.
It might all work or we might also see all the limitations to all this hybrid tech. These drones will likely get targeted and shot at/blown up and the mothership too. Wonder if they’ll deploy Rapid Sentry LMM on the Bays considering its being doing well on the ground. Might fit onto a flatrack or Paladin type rack?
Well there hasn’t been any reported losses of the drones (BlackSea’s Global Autonomous Reconnaissance Craft, GARC), the USN has deployed to the Persian Gulf yet. Whereas we known a dozen Reaper UAVs have been destroyed.
A one-off, £30 billion capital injection to extinguish the Ministry of Defence’s £28 billion ‘black hole’ and the ‘never ending story’ of chronic funding gaps. (extra £2 billion for kicks)
By appropriately redirecting funds from secondary state objectives, specifically non-critical Net Zero subsidies, Welfare efficiencies, and a reduction in the bloated Civil Service headcount, the government could effectively ‘clear the decks’ for a resilient national defence. A strategic hard reset would provide the National Armaments Director, Rupert Pearce, with a foundation to enforce a rigorous, industry-led procurement regime that prioritises ‘wartime pace’ over over-engineered, bespoke projects.
The benefit of this plan is the immediate eradication of the endless procurement paralysis which is currently stifling the UK defence sector. A £30 billion injection would unlock stalled contracts for the Type 26 and Type 31 frigates, allowing the National Armaments Director to transition from managing a deficit to signing multi-year, fixed-price deals. Providing industrial certainty that’s needed to sustain high-skilled British jobs and ensures that the Royal Navy is no longer forced to ‘cannibalise’ its own escort fleet just to keep the nuclear deterrent at sea. Furthermore, by ring-fencing a portion of this reset for competitive retention bonuses and the modernisation of dilapidated shore-side housing, the Navy could finally stem the exit of senior engineers to the private sector. This would ensure that we actually have the sailors required to man the hulls we are building … rather than leaving modern warships tied up at the pier.
The National Armaments Director needs to be able to exercise a heavy hand to veto gold-plated engineering early in the design phase. Additionally, because a sudden massive capital injection could cause the defence supply chain to overheat and potentially drive up the cost of materials and labour, he and the sitting gov. need to manage it carefully.
Ultimately, the defence of the realm is the State’s primary duty … not a flexible budgetary line item.
I say Stop Pissing About! – address the black hole head-on, then, the government can move from a state of managed decline to one of strategic purpose and vigour. Once the UK defence is on an even keel and the National Armaments Director is empowered to manage future budgets with strict and rigorous oversight, the UK can move onto the next national crisis ?¿ with a force that is a genuine instrument of power rather than a collection of threadbare improvisations and pernicious accounting tricks.
Bravo!
And when will Labour, the Tories, or the Liberals ever find a spare 30 Billion. I fully agree with the idea, yet can never see that happening as they are all chained to their welfare projects and their carrots to attract votes.
Which is why I vote for none of them any longer.
So decline we have.
Not until there is some form of serious shock..
I’m not sure what it will take, but I think the US is walking away from NATO very quickly and Russia will test in a way that makes it impossible to ignore.
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