A British P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft has been operating with a Royal Navy Frigate in the Baltic Sea, according to the Royal Air Force here.
According to a news release:
“Flying from RAF Lossiemouth, the CXX Squadron Poseidon MRA1 conducted Air-Maritime integration with HMS Richmond, a Royal Navy Type 23 Frigate. The aircraft and ship were operating as part of the Joint Expeditionary Force, which is a UK-led task group of 10 nations held at high-readiness to respond to global events.”
The Ministry of Defence say that the aim of this mission was to ensure the safe transit of British and Danish supply ships as they delivered military vehicles and equipment to their Battlegroup forces in Estonia.
Wing Commander Smolak, Officer Commanding 201 Squadron, was quoted as saying:
“From conducting deep water operations in the Mediterranean to littoral operations in the Baltic, the Royal Air Force Poseidon Force is demonstrating its prowess as a force multiplier, enhancing the collective security of the UK; our NATO Allies and partners.”
The RAF also say that Poseidon is specifically designed to undertake extended surveillance missions at both high and low altitudes.
“The aircraft is equipped with cutting-edge sensors which uses high-resolution area mapping to find both surface and sub-surface threats.”
According to the Daily Mail
‘Britain has been sending anti-tank weapons including the NLAW (next-generation light anti-tank weapons) missile since before the invasion. But Zelensky has asked for anti-ship weapons, including the Harpoon missiles used by the Royal Navy’.’
If our stock are low enough our surface anti-ship capability may come to an end before Harpoon goes out of service,
The armed forces really do need an uplift, even if only to cover the cost of weapons already donated.
I’m sure that’ll happen and more. Even under Williamson the MoD began to increase stocks of munitions and spares. If we see an increase in Defence spend in autumn I think that’s where a big chunk of it will go. It takes a long time to order and buid new ships and aircraft etc but orders for missiles, shells etc have a much quicker turnaround.
As you say this was one of the first things that got sorted.
It all started with the conversation about % of felt deployable ships and STOROB.
Things are getting a lot better.
A lot of these things don’t cost a lot but when you are in a deficit situation then any budget lines get trimmed. Even ones that should never have been trimmed.
A lot of lessons are going to be learned from the Ukraine war I think especially much greater distribution of man portable weapons to frontline troops at lower command levels. Your spot on about readiness too. If we thought we’d have plenty of warning of the shit hitting the fan and time to fix capability gaps then that is over. I hope we don’t just do a 1 or 2 year splurge though then go back to business as usual. We need to think about increasing recruitment and big ticket items like ships, planes and drones and both of those… Read more »
I agree.
The fantasy that we would have years or a decade – remember ‘we can’t see any use for a carrier in the next 10 years?’ To sort things out has been demolished.
I’d it wasn’t for Zelensky I think EU & NATO would be sitting around sucking teeth and wringing hands in the usual ‘what can we do about that’ mode….
Anyway I think the UK did the right thing with NLAWS and shows the way.
‘we can’t see any use for a carrier in the next 10 years?’
I’m gonna guess that’s David money can buy you an education but it can’t buy you a brain Cameron. Yeah we’ve shown real leadership over Ukraine.
Trump was the only leader that gave lethal weapons to Ukraine years before Putin invaded them. Everyone else was scared to death of Putin and his threats. Thank goodness the Ukrainians got a few years to train on the Javelins or things would probably be different in the war today. Also America in 2018 trained the Ukrainian AF in NATO tactics, ect that is helping them today. Now if only a Western leader had the guts to give them some more Migs….
With the MiGs I’ve no idea why it wasn’t just done on the QT.
If they had been repainted who would have been any the wiser as Poland and Ukraine collaborated and swapped bits before then?
Spot on that’s my worry about talk about transferring AS90’s and Harpoons. God knows whether we can keep anything secret nowadays but let’s try.
AS90’s are a bit UK unique so it would be pretty obvious from commercial satellite cover?
Harpoon is more likely to come from US than UK as they have more sets and other bits that allow them to be set up for static use. As far as I’m aware we have never had those systems.
Good point on AS90. Harpoons at least we have them in inventory even if not many.
It’s a fair point, you can’t just add harpoon to a ship and expect it to work, you have to do expensive and time consuming integration. For land based you would need some form of launch vehicle and radar system, which the UK doesn’t have. I would guess we could probably create such a platform quickly if the money was put down but I can’t see that happening
Poland made it public as they wanted it to be public that they gave them to the US and not to Ukraine, should Russia ever find out. I also suspect they wanted to use it as a bargaining tool to get cheap upgrades/replacements from the US
Putin won the 2016 election for Trump. Trump screwed the Afghans. And Trumps America first BS gave a green light for Putin to consider this war. So don’t pull that crap here. Trump was a disaster for America, and the world.
Nonsense.
Trump was weakening NATO with his isolationist and transactional actions. Why is what Robert says “Nonsense”??
I’m with @Robert Blay
Putin annexed the Crimea and other parts of Ukraine under Obama’s Presidency. Also Putin winning the election for Trump is rubbish. Evidence please not rumour
US intelligence services provided evidence of Russian tampering of the 2016 election. Trump soundly ignored that evidence.
I think you’ll find that British forces have been training the Ukraine army in tactics and use of NLAW etc since the annex of Crimea in 2014, they were only pulled out just before the war started.
We get that you like Trump…You’ve omitted the bit about the “conditonal” offer for the Javelins…..
Correct you are! 🙂
I think perhaps your learning the wrong lessons! The war so far has shown that “lots” of stuff means FA, what matters is “quality” of stuff. Quality of equipment, quality of training, quality/motivation of personnel.
And sufficient numbers of stuff, such as easy to use gear like NLAWS, to make sure it is all over the battle field?
But it does shine a light on something else I bang on about – keeping superannuated carp in the stores is a total waste of time.
Much better of focusing on having decent amounts of the good stuff.
Out of interest what is superannuated carp?
After Ukraine one of the Britain’s adversaries (Russia) will be a lot weaker conventionally. I can’t see it being able to replace the all the kit lost quickly if ever.
I do wonder what Russia military will learn from the experience and if it will adapt and how
You pre-suppose that the Russian military has a “learning” capability, which a dictatorship does not tend towards, if history is any guide.
Old kit that should have been scrapped years ago……
We used to have plenty of WWII stuff kicking around in the 1980’s…..
They’re capable of learning. See aftermath of Finnish winter war. That’s the worry.
And then forgetting those lessons…?
I’m not sure about that. The Germans certainly felt the Red Army was capable of learning ! When you compare them in 1939 to 1945 they were a different proposition.
The difference in the Soviet Army in 1939 and 1944 was American lend lease. The US sent the Soviets:
At a dinner toast with Allied leaders during the Tehran Conference in December 1943, Stalin added: “The United States … is a country of machines. Without the use of those machines through Lend-Lease, we would lose this war.”
Of course lend lease helped them to fight. But the Russians also learned how to fight. It also cost them millions of lives before they learned.
You need both as numbers count too. It’s having the right kit at the right time. The UK has some quality items but NOT ENOUGH of them to take to the table.
Hardly Ukraine war was coming for over a decade, it was just everyone had their head stuck in the sand trying to pretend it wasn’t. Luckily Ukraine did act and massively increased its milaitry force, although even it reacted late, as crimea again was boiling over for years before it happened. Unfortunately all this war proves is policticans won’t react until they are forced to by having no other option. It’s like the Falklands, the foreign office / mod know the risk years before but the government didn’t want to increase the defense of it as it would upset trade… Read more »
Yeah but your describing all Democracies. That’s how democratic politics works for good or ill.
Without an uplift this year the defence budget will go down by about 3% in real terms. This loss and the need to replace millions of pounds worth of missiles is going to do more damage. I’m afraid I don’t share you sense of optimism.
Well if the missiles were at end of stores life then giving them away to be expended saves the disposal costs.
Surely the missiles would be funded by UOR anyway.
I agree we need to send about £200M to replace them but some of that might already be budgeted.
You could say we need to replace whats been donated missile wise, but I’d suggest that Bill is going to be a lot less than the Russian Bill to replace their armour. Let’s face it the Ukraine has taken a lot of pressure off NATO and I’d not be surprised if the Russian military will carry some mental scars for a few years once this is all over.
Oh I agree.
It is going to cost the Russian fortunes, that they do not have, to replace the kit that has been destroyed in Ukraine.
TBH I think half the reason that the UK is so keen to supply more NLAWS is that a decent percentage of the Russian kit can be destroyed in Ukraine. Further, that the Russians will never dare to invade anywhere with an armour lead strike as it has been demonstrated how vulnerable their kit is to our last generation weapons.
I think your 100% right on both scores there SB.
A bankrupted Russia could be bought up/indebted to China, a far greater threat.
That is true.
I’ve made that point a few times on here already.
Might as well let the Ukrainians trash as much Russian kit as they can. That way we know 100% we won’t be fighting it.
Kinda depends, the number of vehicles rumoured lost is high, but compared to total number meant to be available / in stores it’s tiny (I read one number of 400 tanks lost, but they are meant to have tens of thousands). Clearly Russia will need to do something to sort the corruption going on around it’s defense equipment, but in theory they could rebuild relatively cheaply.
The human cost is another question and so is the morale one, this appears to be Russia’s Vietnam. It took decades before the US mentaly recovered.
The Russian’s might get re-supplied by China on a energy-food-land resources deal for Chinese military equipment? Don’t they both share technology and similar systems already and also do joint exercises? We could see a further big China-Russia-Stans-Iran-Syria block imerge all mutually supporting each other. Hope the West and its friends and aligned countries can as also stay strong.
With the opposition now openly callling for an increase in spending the government might think it unwise not to do something. I will not hold my breath though.
They’re also calling for billions more spending on cost of living crisis and Con MP’s are calling for tax cuts. Let’s keep our fingers crossed that they all surprise us.
Haha tax cuts. That’s what’s not needed. That only has a benefit for the whole economy if they are above a certain level. At the current levels it doesn’t really boost anything apart from wealthy wallet sizes.
Agreed.
I can’t see an increase coming. If they were going to do it they would have done it in the budget that just happened to counter the negative stories about the German increase and generally use it as a way to hide the negative stories about the cost of living raises.
It all depends. The decisions will be taken in the autumn. What will the Ukraine war look like ? What will the the UK economy look like ? On balance I think the odds are good on the side of an increase but it’s not certain. How big an increase is even less.
My guess a one off payment that will be used to replace the given away gear and be glossed up as a major uplift in capability. Plus a statement that there will be another SDSR the year of the election, i.e. after it or a review that will start immediately but only report after the election.
I agree – a one off payment is far more likely than an actual increase in the yearly budged. I’m not sure that it will actually happen though, you’d have thought it would have happened already. I think there will be a lot of disappointed people on here when the autumn budget comes out. The priority for the government rightly or wrongly is going to be the cost of living issue, more people will care about that than defense spending. If the Conservatives want to stay in power come the next election then getting the cost of living issue right… Read more »
I guess depends when the next election is. If it’s next year then they will want a budget early in the year where they cut taxes etc and so this year will likely involve no focus on the cost of living, so they can throw it all at once and having it in the voters minds.
Biden will never agree to the transfer of Harpoons to Ukraine. Since it’s a American weapon he can veto the transfer. Old dude is scared of Putin and WW3. I think he saw The Day After too many times in the 1980s. lol
You looking forward to WW3 or something? Can’t wait for the ‘Rapture ‘ or whatever it is that gets those MAGA fundamentalists stiff?
Nothing stopping you from heading to Ukraine yourself and volunteering if you’re so bothered about Joe Biden not agreeing to launching WW3.
Lol.
Donald Trump is 75. Does that qualify as ‘old dude’?
It will be interesting to see how far down the pecking order our order is. I assume a huge number of countries are going to be queuing up to buy nlaws after this, if we don’t release the funds quickly and place an order for replacements we could be years down the list.
Will giving Ukraine the Harpoons could be seen as a way more offensive than defensive posture by Russia? Well if we can use up the UKs older Harpoon stock maybe then they’ll need to order some later versions as an “interim-interim” AShMs… Lol 😁. Not sure what’s still in production or if it’s ex-inventory but I read that the US is supplying Taiwan with the current Block of Harpoon’s. The UK might have some spare of the air launched Harpoons too. Strength to Ukraine 🇺🇦 its fighters, its people and its President!
Socks of harpoon anti ship missiles are coming to the end of thier shelf life, a decision was taken not to maintain the servicable life span of Harpoon because of the plan to replace them, having said that we ended up in a cluster f, with more dithering and delays and the inevitable capability gap. If there is away of getting harpoon and the Guidance systems to Ukraine and get them to work as a shore based battery all well and good. In my opinion it will spur the planners on in introducing a replacement for the Royal Navy sooner… Read more »
Agreed. And it’s not just Harpoon replacements we need to be thinking about. If FC/ASW won’t be coming until the early 2030s, we also need to ask if we have enough long-distance cruise in stock. The TLAM production line won’t be open forever, and upgrading or buying more of the latest version might be needed to see us through, while that option is still available. Is the distance version of FC/ASW even slated for the Astutes? I read the French want a submarine-launched version and we are saying no. Just like it’s no to CAMM-ER. We are really bad at… Read more »
The problem is that we only currently have Astute to fire TLAM.
When T26 comes on stream then it will be able to fire anything from its MK41 VLS.
I agree that land strike is a very needed role from surface fleet.
Which is why I bang on about Mk41 on T31….mind you so did Radakin for HoC Defence Select Committee…..T31 is in service in numbers before T26 ever is at the present build rates.
Are the type 26 getting the longest strike length mk41 launchers? Hope so
Problem we have is useless head in the sand governments that don’t fund the essentials.
Ukraine is never going to get western anti ship missiles. Biden, and the rest of the Western leaders are too scared of Putin’s threats.
I think you will find they will, Harpoon is no different to manpads there is no difference to hitting a ship to taking down an aircraft or taking out Russian armour, the Australians are providing Bushmaster vehicles and so are a number of other European nations. Oddessa is of strategic importance and must be defended.
A Harpoon is very different to MANPADs and ATGM, their weights, the former being 15′ and 1500lbs/700kg. Difficult to smuggle them in. You can’t put 3/4 in the back of an estate car/SUV. Its a similar problem with any weapon that doesn’t take standard WP ammo, the sometimes unique logistics chain after that weapon is safely over the border. Even for their standard weapons the logistics must be getting increasingly difficult as the Russians destroy increasing numbers of supply depots of all kinds. Re the effectiveness of the NLAWs etc, for whatever reason, the majority of tanks on both sides… Read more »
Johnski
Nice to hear from you.
The Ukrainians seem to say they need NLAWS: why would they do that if it didn’t work?
Maybe the Ukrainians will get Haprion. It would be nice if they could get rid of the Russian fleet as well as their tanks. That way we can be sure NATO won’t be dealing with them.
Thank you. Didn’t say it doesn’t work, it clearly does, hence asking for more, its just that the UkA has a lot of artillery and drones which are safer than getting up close and personal and can cover a wider area.
The Russian fleet seems to be cruising round creating a threat to Odessa so the UkA feel the need to keep 5, I think, battalions down there. In the meantime cruise missiles are destroying their fuel stocks to remove that option.
If NATO had to deal with them, I suspect that there would be bigger problems around.
“In the meantime cruise missiles are destroying their fuel stocks to remove that option.”
Unlike the Russian the Ukrainians have localised distributed fuel stocks.
TBH they don’t need a big heavy missile like Harpoon to take out the Russian ships. Mid weight barge launched drone stuff would do the job.
Hi Johniin I agree with what you are saying, my point was that supplying Harpoon is no different to supplying manpads. Dan was implying we wouldn’t supply such weaponary for fear of upsetting Putin. You make an interesting point about calling In artillery on tanks as it goes to show artillery still has a purpose on the battlefield. I’m amazed how ineffective the reactive armour is on Russian tanks, I remember in the 80s when we first saw it how revolutionary it was and so desperate was the need for one of those box’s that BRIXMIS managed to get hold… Read more »
NLAW can be set up prior to firing for either direct or top attack. It literally is just a button press. I suspect the issue with the explosive reactive armour(ERA) is chemical leaching. This is where the chemicals that make up the plastic explosive used in the ERA starts breaking down and separating. This then either makes it more unstable or more likely less effective. Judging by the poor state of their equipment, showing a lack of periodic maintenance. It may be the case that the ERA being used is well past its shelf life, thereby making it ineffective. There… Read more »
Or maybe the design just isn’t that good?
Proper plastic explosives should be long term stable.
Mark Arty doesn’t destroy tanks, it damages optics, disrupts systems and causes concern for the crew but very rarely is a tank ever destroyed. You may find that after an Arty fire mission is called in on a Russkie formation they generally do a runner and the tanks can then be destroyed at leisure either by A/guided munitions or ground teams with dems. Johnskie doesn’t really know. Arty will always be needed, but with more guided projectiles to ensure that you can fire a single guided projectile, as opposed to a 5 rounds FFE from 3 or more guns. Cheers.
I can remember doing a radar adjustment at Larkhill back in the 80’s in front of some watching VIPs, we put the adjusting round right on top of the target on the smartie line. It looked very impressive but the round just bounced off the armour without seemingly doing too much damage. Guns that were firing for us were 105 light guns.
Yes mate, Arty is essential but as we know no good for destroying armour”
JIMK wrote: A Harpoon is very different to MANPADs and ATGM, their weights, the former being 15′ and 1500lbs/700kg. Difficult to smuggle them in. You can’t put 3/4 in the back of an estate car/SUV. My take on what Mark was saying was the Harpoon is a one shot disposable weapon like the rest Its a similar problem with any weapon that doesn’t take standard WP ammo, the sometimes unique logistics chain after that weapon is safely over the border. I thought we were talking about 1 shot disposable weapons. Also a salient point to note, the only factory making… Read more »
Thanks Farouk- a really interesting and well drafted commentary . Keep ’em coming.
Thank you for your comment. I value the replies from yourself and others here who have infinitely more knowledge than me, including Airborne when he is off his high horse. It seems to me that the UkA are really successfully exploiting their drones, of which they have large numbers, to increase the effectiveness of artillery. A Russian big weakness seems to be the lack of infantry support in high risk areas thereby presenting the tanks as almost sitting ducks. The Russians are also increasing using their Iskaders against single high value targets, like Buk-M1 and S-300 when they find them,… Read more »
I cant ride a horse John sorry. The main Russkie weakness isn’t a lack of Infantry support to tanks, its not having the experience, knowledge or training, at every level, in order to know when/how/where to operate as a combined arms BCT (to include Arty, Aviation, Engineers, Recce, Logistics, Comms, LLAD etc etc)….all this doesn’t happen overnight, it takes years of planning, training and resources to achieve, something which hasn’t happened with your comrades. The Russkies have shown themselves to be amateurs at the soldiering profession, and their whole doctrine of command is a shower of shit. Fortunately for the… Read more »
Very few tanks are destroyed by Arty Johny boy! A 122m HE shell landed next to a tank will make a mess of the paint, smash a few optics and blow off the amateurs sleeping bags and pots and fucking pans from the outside cages. Tanks are destroyed by AT weapons, hence the term AT weapons. FFS get a grip, I know your not real and never served but try to research the subject to make yourself a bit more real. Oh and here we go again, your mate Kayaker wouldn’t do it, like you have refused to do so,… Read more »
Yeah the West is so scared of Putin that we’re not supplying NLAWs, Javelins, Starstreaks etc to Ukraine…
Except that we are.
Nice try Dan’ski but we can spot you Russian trolls on this site a mile-off.
Golly, if your socks were that old I would want to give them a wide berth?