Strykers and Cougars from the United States, Challenger 2 tanks from the UK and Marders from Germany have officially joined the Ukrainian armed forces.
The Ministry of Defence of Ukraine tweeted the following.
They have arrived!
Strykers and Cougars from 🇺🇲, Challengers from 🇬🇧, Marders from 🇩🇪 have officially joined the Air Assault Forces of the #UAarmy!
The greatest vehicles for the best soldiers.
Onward! pic.twitter.com/xZnjtdnwfq— Defense of Ukraine (@DefenceU) March 27, 2023
Recently, Ukrainian tank crews finished Challenger 2 training in the UK and are returning home to combat Russia’s invasion.
According to the Ministry of Defence:
“The training began shortly after the announcement in January that the UK would donate 14 Challenger 2 tanks and accompanying ammunition and spare parts to aid Ukraine. UK military trainers spent several weeks training Ukrainian personnel how to operate and fight with the tanks. Instruction included how to command, drive and work together as a Challenger 2 tank crew and effectively identify and engage targets.
The Challenger 2 tank marks a step change in capability for the Armed Forces of Ukraine, ensuring they are better able to protect their crews and offering them some of the most modern and sophisticated gunnery systems in the world.”
Put the best front and centre.
Exactly 👏👏
I reckon the Challenger’s gun could be very effective against helos and airfcraft at that angle!
If they get close enough!
Load it with grape shot, might do the trick.
i believe the smoothbore guns the allies have can shoot canister grape shot as America used it in Iraq
Let’s hope they keep them safe and return them in good condition. When the peace talks end this stupid Orc v Orc war.
Orc v orc, what strange substance have you been shoving up your nose!
Trouble is mate he hasn’t been sniffing anything🙄He is just a nob👍
Orc’s 😂😂 maybe he was pant sniffing… oh am I allowed to say that. 😇
I think the correct term is to address the pants as gender fluid, non identifying undergarments.
“Gender Fluid” when discussing sniffing underwear…😆
Does that include skidders?
Only for those who identify as amourers
Fluid skidders would require the attention of a specialist pant sniffer.
Strong stomach required🤢
More insults Shaun, so be it. Both Ukraine and Russia are former, equal founding partners of the soviet heartland republics. Ukrainian Soviet Republic together with the Russian, Byelorussian and Transcaucasian Soviet Republics. All signed the original USSR documents, with the given right to leave anytime, if they so desired. That being the important point here. None of the other soviet republics had that choice, only the big four. There was no difference between the willing Russian and Ukrainian communists whatsoever. Right down to the very popular and lucrative KGB recruitment drives. That is why they both inevitably morphed into the… Read more »
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Hi George, you say Ukraine could leave the USSR at any time,. Why won’t Russia let Ukraine get on with life themselves now? Are the Russians worse now than when in USSR?? You make them sound like pussycats which makes you sound kinda silly!
In theory they could have left, at least in 1922 ish, before Stalin took over 1924 – 53. But communism/socialism is never truthful. In practice it would have been suicide to even talk about leaving. In 1932 Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians to death. He deported more to Siberia to be worked to death. Simply to industrialise farming. Huge collective fields could be planted and harvested by a small number of “loyal party member comrades” using tractors. So there was no need for thousands of peasants doing it all by hand. Those who could not be employed in the new… Read more »
You are what we call in Yorkshire – ‘a know-all who knows nought’
Talk about weighed down by your own opinions, most of us know this stuff given it was part of the curriculum at school in the 1980s and many of us went on to delve further, my daft mate even went on to take further education in the Russian language. You then debase yourself with all this pious knowledge by saying orc v orc, you know nothing Jon snow
Quite so cj. When Hungary tried to leave the Eastern Bloc in 1956 the USSR invaded and gunned down thousands of people and they weren’t even in the USSR so the idea that Ukraine could have just upped and left whenever they liked is Kremlin-esque history revisionism baloney.
👏👏
not changed since……1917
What has any of that got to do with Ukraine being invaded by an agressor
It has everything to do with why Russia invaded and tried to take Kiev. Corrupt former soviet power brokers/oligarchs squabbling over the spoils of the former USSR. Behaving according to type. Even the powerless grass roots movement striving for democracy, have been hijacked by those with bigger agendas and militias of paid storm troopers.
I disagree none of that has any relevance or excuse for Russia to invade anyone
Completely relevant, not an excuse but explains why.
Let’s here your alternative explanation.
👍
“Both Ukraine and Russia are former, equal founding partners of the soviet heartland republics” No, the russian backed communists overwhelmed the other non communist forces and imposed their rule. A foreign backed militant minority does not represent the whole population, we have seen russia playing the same game in the Donbass. Ukraine did not sign up to it only the Moscow subservient Ukrainian communists. The existence of the venial and corrupt minority in a population is a fact of human nature and hardly justification for applying a false moral equivalence. The epithet of Orc is applied to the russian forces… Read more »
His nose has clearly been up Putin’s ass, so I’ll leave the substance to your imagination.
They have been donated, and will remain there, in whatever condition.
Then more fool us. Do not be surprised if in two years time, at least one Challie2 is in Beijing and another in Moscow. Sold for profit by a former soviet member of the \Ukrainian general staff. I will never trust those people.
🤡
The Ukrainians people in charge are not the same as they were pre 2013. The country has and is changing. That is why we see Russia having such an issue with Ukraine. It’s no longer it’s poorer brother that will do what it wants. While there are still some bad apples they are getting smaller as a proportion of people in power. It will take more time for Ukraine to get to European standards but as a country they have come a long way and we’re continuing in the right direction before Russia’s invasion, 3 day regime change operation. I’m… Read more »
I sincerely hope that what you have written is true and not wishful thinking. The road to recovery from communism is obviously a bumpy one. It would be a good idea to rid Ukraine of the corrupt power dealing oligarchs first. Could we start with the ones living in London and Switzerland. They are friends and acquaintances of rich British politicians. I’m just saying, not accusing. Then try to remove those that finance Putin and Zelensky. A much harder task. I believe Wiki has an almost complete list of them, if anyone is really interested to know the names of… Read more »
Only time will tell if Ukraine can continue to improve. The main task I see just now is to get Russia out of Ukraine. Once that happens and peace returns Ukraine has the ability to grow its economy quickly.
It will have a strong farming sector as before. With access to European markets and its ability to make goods cheaper than Europe will really help it also.
Hopefully with the temptation of EU membership the country will get any left of corruption under control.
Lets hope so, for everyone’s sake. After all, stranger things have happened such as the USSR imploding and turning into oligarchies. Incidentally, Ukraine will fit right in with the EU quango. Football world cup bribes and all. Especially with it’s ruling oligarchs set to make a killing, from the US/UK/EU reconstruction grants. Did you know, Ukraine is selectively rewriting the definition and what constitutes an oligarch. I wonder how many of the following very limited list, will be excluded from prosecution. Remaining free to wheel and deal, multiplying grow their ill-gotten gains. My cynical side thinks it will be those… Read more »
“Orc v Orc”?
Shagrat vs Gorbag fighting amongst themselves.
Wagner vs Russian army?
LOTR has everything – innit.
Now I’m intrigued. Do you envisage me as Shagrat or Gorbag?
If given the choice from LOTR, I’d pick Gandalf because of my beard and staff. (Walking stick.)
😎 Now you’re talking. I love LOTR!!!
Yes George, see my reply to Shaun et al above. If the term Orc is applicable to one side in this conflict, it is surely applicable to both. The close cooperation between the two soviet/bolshevik founding partners. Combined with the identically corrupt oligarchies both Russia and Ukraine morphed into. Is in my opinion enough to tar them with the same brush. What say you, am I wrong? The ethnically and linguistically diverse “Ukrainian” populous, enthusiastically bought into communism. So much so, that their joint seventy year journey as comrades. Down the violent revolutionary rabbit hole to hell. Left it’s indelible… Read more »
You’re an idiot. Russia is a totalitarian regime, Ukraine is a democracy. The Ukraine didn’t enthusiastically buy into communism as you claim. If that were the case, Stalin wouldn’t have felt the need to commit genocide against them with the Holodomor. Having visited several Eastern European countries it’s remarkable the distance they have travelled in just 30 since freeing themselves from totalitarianism. Ukraine though has only really had less than a decade, since 2014 when it was able to remove its last kleptocrat leader. It’s amazing the progress that Ukraine has made given that Russia invaded soon afterwards and has… Read more »
https://i.postimg.cc/nM8xg5fN/Untitled-1.jpg
Entirely concur, covered much the same ground in my rather over long counterblast above before I read your post!
I do think you’re wrong. ‘Orc v Orc ‘ is reductio ad absurdam. So much of what you’ve posted above reads like one those conspiracy theory covid19 anti vaccine rants with the inevitable, argument winning refrain to ‘ do ur research ‘
The anti-vax Corvid-19 conspiracy brigade almost universally support Putin, regardless of whether they’re in the extreme-left or extreme-right of politics. So I wouldn’t be surprised if George held those wacky views too.
👍
or “Wake up”
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Jeez
“Orc v Orc war”?!?!
we usually have to wait for JohnInMoscow for such ridiculously stupid, crass, and insulting comments.
The truth is often insulting.
I’ve never found it to be, but I doubt you’d recognise the truth if it give you the bitch-slap across the face you so clearly deserve.
Greetings comrade troll Sean, I hope you are well.
You can stick your “comrade” where the sun don’t shine – if you need further directions it’s what you usually talk out of…
Not so, people tell me I am very handsome 😁
I dare u to say that next to a few Ukrainians.
Actually I have, quite recently over games of chess and a bottle of port. At a fundraising event for victims on both sides of the current conflict. We mostly agreed, especially about the effects of communism, extreme nationalists and how the vile creatures deserved each other. I know a few words of Russian. The terms used to describe the belligerents, were far worse than Orcs. Locally, we have a small but vibrant population of westernised Ukrainian refugees and descendants. Complete with a shared Orthodox Church with Greeks, Russians, Rusyns, Romanians etc. It’s a long story but they love to tell… Read more »
Don’t believe a word of it.
Living in London I know plenty of Ukrainians, and Russians too, and they are unanimous in both their support for Ukraine and hatred for Putin. The Ukrainians are in awe of what a statesman Zelensky has turned out to be.
Agreed! Total chuff!
Did you win Kasparov and then smugly sipped your port after
The wasp grubs must be devouring your only brain cell.
This may be a very late reply to a post, but what shite your post is! I have a number of Ukrainian colleagues who have no clue what nonsense you are stating! Also please post the fundraising events charity number for us to peruse and possibly support, cheers!
I would not normally do this but under the circumstances and in the hope of donations … You will of course in the interests of transparency, tell us how much you donate. The church in question is ST ANTHONY THE GREAT. Greek Orthodox Church, Newcastle upon Tyne. https://st-anthony-the-great.org.uk/ I was also informed of a link with this group too. But they are I suspect, more like your colleagues. Ukrainian Orthodox Parish of St. Basil the Great & St George- Newcastle. As for charity numbers, no idea. The fundraising event I think was organised by the people mentioned on this webpage… Read more »
How would you have described WW2? Saxon v. Saxon ? I mean, if you went back far enough….
Firstly may I state here and now. I did not start using the term Orc on this site to describe anyone. It is genuinely offensive. Rather, I’m using it to describe both sides and providing my justification for doing so. It is good to see people have realised it is unacceptable. “Back far enough” in this case is only 30 years. Well within my adult lifetime and that of Vladimir Putin! Also the senior powerbrokers in Ukraine. Those who have been following my posts here, will know Putin is the product of the USSR and the ruthless communist system. The… Read more »
But you used orc yourself, justified in your mind or not. Basically you are saying both sides are the same thus diminishing Russia as the villain here, cos it’s in their nature those Easter European lot isn’t it, they can’t help themselves, eeee love than putin they do, I like caps lock and I like port and chess.
Sorry, but that is just muddled rubbish.Civil war my arse. This war started , much like others before it because a delusional dictator – Putin, somehow came to believe that a faraway country in some way belonged to him. It doesn’t. And much like those before him like Milosovic, Saddam Hussein, Hitler, Hirohito etc, he’s destined to learn the hard way.
You claim this conflict started because: “Putin somehow came to believe that a far away country somehow belonged to him.” That must have taken a considerable amount of research and background reading to arrive at that conclusion, well done.
Yeah. They’re the verifiable facts. Not some incoherent, rambling conspiracy theory word salad that honestly reads like it was written by Chat GPT.
You suck
When drinking through a straw.
Let’s hope this makes Putin think again 🤔
Not sure Putin thinks about much, other than how to hang on to power, otherwise he is toast. He is in this for the long term, he only has to last long enough for Europe to lose enthusiasm and the Americans to change leader. We can only hope he does not succeed. I know nothing about the land domain but hope the free world sticks together and that the equipment supplied proves effective.
Sadly, I have to agree. It’s Zedong & Joseph all over again. Don’t give a shit about “the people”.
Believe that the provision of MBTs and other armour (w/ adequate munitions) will enable UKR offensive during spring/summer. UKR may well prevail in the Donbas and the South. The truly fateful campaign will be for Crimea; the strategic importance/consequences of Russian defeat there are quite probably Mad Vlad ‘a true red line. Could easily envision the use of tactical nukes to destroy UKR assault force crossing the isthmus connecting to UKR. Then events could become very sporting, extremely quickly…🤔😳😱
…Mad Vlad’s ..🙄
You’re scaring me talking about Putin using nukes! Mind you, he is mad enough to do anything.
Simply an assessment that neither the Donbas nor Southern UKR is a true red line for Putin, but the Crimea may well be such, given it’s strategic location (and the concept that Crimea was at one point, w/in living memory, considered to be a part of Russia). My forecast could be too pessimistic, have been known to misjudge future events on a recurring basis. However, there is also a chance the assessment is accurate. The Ukrainians could also choose to enter into negotiations after securing the majority of their territory…🤔😳🤞
Tactical nukes have been part of the ‘War In Europe’ Plan for years on both sides, remember ‘Honest John.’ Putin may use them if forced into a corner as he has nothing to lose considering he’s a wanted man outside Russia.
I do remember that we in the army had tactical nukes, Honest John (then MGM-52 Lance) and nuclear 155mm rounds fired by M107; the RAF had WE.177 and the RN had nuclear tipped torpedoes (and mines?).
We had tac nukes, as did the Russians – but we didn’t use them. However I understand that Russia has a more cavalier attitude to using tac nukes, presumably thinking that we would still not be able to do anything militarily in response.
I’d like to think China may put pressure on Putin not to use TNW, as it would place them in an international crisis. Place them on the border by all means, as a warning, just don’t deploy.
P.S. My wife has no interest in military affairs but believes Putin will use nukes if he feels it’s all lost. Sometimes a woman’s intuition cuts right through the BS theories and gets directly to the point. Sobering……
The RN had WE177 as it was a multi use dial a yield weapon for sub surface (Depth Charge), Surface and Airburst use.
To my knowledge the RN never had Torps or mines with buckets of sunshine on the end. It was discussed but the projects never came to anything.
Correct we never did. Just good old fashioned bang stuff inside them.
*Interesting footnote, per Wiki: RAF Nimrods could/(perhaps did) deploy on occasion w/ B57s (depth bomb variant,10 Kt yield), out of RAF St. Mawgan, RAF Kinloss and Malta. Believe that would be considered a robust ASW technique/tactic; enough to put a real crimp in one’s pressure hull. Really analogous to fishing at the local pond w/ sticks of dynamite. 🤔😳😉
RN certainly *had* nuclear depth charges – I don’t think there were nuclear mines.
Thanks SB.
Yep DC only …I looked after the bloody things when we where carrying. A right pain as well.
M109 in 1980’s
It’s a concern for all I think, many of us hypothesise that the Spring offensive will be a drive South East to the coast, to cut the Russians in two, with the main force pivoting down to roll the Russians up in Crimea. With sufficient western tanks and artillery systems, I don’t think the Russians could do much to stop them. Then we will see what control those around Putin have on him and crucially, the Chinese. With limited ability to withdraw from the peninsula, the Russians would be forced into a humiliating defeat with thousands killed and captured…. Putin… Read more »
They will almost certainly use CW before nukes. Much less of an escalation but just as effective with lingering area denial capabilities. The Ukrainians are completely unprepared and Russia still has stockpiles. More importantly the ability to manufacture, deploy and sustain much more. What have they been doing in the months since mobilisation and NATO announcing they were sending more modern MBTs plus trained crews to Ukraine? Not twiddling their thumbs and drinking vodka. My guess is they have been falling back on the Red Army doctrine, looking for ways to negate NATO armour and any accompanying badly equipped mechanised… Read more »
That is my view. Crimea is why Putin moved against Ukraine in 2014. Even if or when Putin goes, the next Russian will almost certainly be a hard man who will also cling to Crimea. So that is the crux.
While 14 tanks isn’t a huge amount added to the other kit it should help give Ukrainians a boost and hopefully frighten Russian soldiers an bit.
Best thing that can happen is Russian troops get spooked and run away.
Tip of the wedge?
Now that they’re there and hopefully at an undisclosed location they can all be well camouflaged, well armed and go off and do their business for Ukraine. Some element of surprise has already been lost. Hope 🇺🇦 forces can push through and see the Asov sea again and soon.
Fingers crossed the bouncy castle challengers have arrived aswell.
A Czech company makes loads of stuff.
https://www.inflatechdecoy.com/
Oh yes, I’d forgot about those, hope there’s 100s of those thingys deployed and that they’re actually effective! I mean you want to laugh but it must be absolutely hell on the battlefront. Thry need to watch out for the kamikaze drones around. I would have liked to see a meatier RWS on top of the Challenger’s. Even a 12.7mm, but not sure how effective against drones.
Looks like it’d be a fun place to work…lol 😁
Wow, they are terrible. I honestly saw better decoys in WW2 training films.
They are just like Challenger 2. They can’t self-deploy, they can’t fire NATO standard shells, we can’t build them in the UK anymore and they are better than anything Russia has.
🤣😂😁
Imagine in a war involving Nato Partners, when all them Tanks Crews with No shells have to walk passed that Huge pile for the CH2s supply lines.
MS,
Mate, hands down one of the best entrepreneurial ideas conceived of thus far this year! Think of all the doting parents renting these items for a few hours for birthday/special events! Franchises available in all NATO countries! License to print money. Amazing idea from an incidental post.
Would appreciate an opportunity to purchase shares, once enterprise floated. Spares could be provided to UKR for intended purpose. 🤔😳😉😁
Located on the fmr East German Border on Forest Road. Hmm
And the Crimea free of Russia.
The use of tactical nuclear weapons would involve blast and radiation. Blast, of course, is a useful effect against an enemy but radiation is not as it would rebound on whoever set the fireworks off.
The problem with that, is Putin really doesn’t give a toss, he regard Crimea as absolutely strategic.
If he looses it, he will likely issue orders to ensure no one else can, tactical nuclear weapons are his go to method of achieving this goal.
Possibly even deliberate nuclear contamination, via improvised dirty bombs, I really wouldn’t put anything past him…..
It’s absolutely chilling and possibly puts us closest to a nuclear exchange since that Russian officer sat in his Cuban bunker waiting to launch at the US fleet with his finger on the button…
Who knows? Dangerous times indeed but I doubt if his minions would allow him to press the button. A realisation by them that if it happened it would condemn millions of people, solders and civilians on both sides, to a slow lingering death.
Who knows Putin’s rationales. What is true is that he uses nuclear blackmail with gusto, logically his ideal goal would be using nuclear blackmail to achieve his goal rather than an actual strike. Performing an actual strike is a very different set of kippers entirely. From my limited understanding, the importance of crimea is as a warm water port in the black sea. With this in mind I don’t think he would perform a nuclear strike on Crimea, what is more likely would be performing a nuclear strike elsewhere if he thought crimea was genuinely under threat. This may take… Read more »
Hi all. I’m not being flippant but could someone explain what an “Orc” is? I realise i think more or less but it’s not a term i know.
Many thanks in advance
I think they live under bridges, or in the Kremlin bunker, or is that trolls??
I mix them up, where’s John in Minsk when you need him…..
Russian troops.
Wiki is your friend: “An orc, in general, is a hideous creature such as an ogre, a sea monster, or a giant in literature. An orc, in J. R. R. Tolkien’s Middle Earth fantasy fiction, is a race of humanoid monsters, which he also refers to as “goblin”-kind.
I think the Ukrainians starting calling the Russian invaders ‘orcs’.
i did think it was a good use of the term, and i got exactly what you meant. War is war Rules don’t apply and the Woke Buttercups need to WOKE UP.
There has been a focus on training the UKR tank crews but little on training their maintainers. I am sure that happened – and UKR is being gifted 2 x CRARRVs – but you need a lot more maint resources than a couple of CRARRVs and trained maintainers.
Graham, maintainers have been / are being trained.
cheers
Cheers Ian, I thought so, but it got zero publicity. You need a lot more kit to keep 14 CR2s on the road than 2 x CRARRVs and trained maintainers, which was what I was trying to say. No info on the full engineering support package.
Afraid not Graham
Would presume all depot level maintenance activity will be provided in Poland, courtesy of HMG’s forces? Shipment largely by rail, supplemented by tank transporters in select areas?
We use different terminology.
Level 1 – done by the tank crew in the field
Level 2 – done by the maintainers attached to the tank unit in the field
Level 3 – done by the maintainers at the second line field workshop in the field
Level 4 – done at a static military base workshop or the OEM.
U/S Engines and Major Assemblies removed from the tank could not be refurbished in Ukraine and would have to go to UK.
Just think how much less death, destruction & territory occupied etc would’ve happened if we’d not prevaricated & timidly agonised for so long, but sent everything Ukraine asked for.
Yet we still neglect our own forces in the face of Russian & Chinese threats. Seems the future T32 frigates & T83 destroyers are paused & unfunded, plus in service dates for T26 has slipped another year. Do defence on the cheap & our entire way of life is at risk.
This idea is amazing! Not only is the MBT good at protecting, but the more protection there is, the greater the chances of survival.
Shall we take Odds on a Ch2 going missing and being sold by a Albanian 2nd hand car dealer with no keys.
I’m hoping this is just for a photo shoot and not the fully delivered tank. It seems to be missing it’s explosive reactive armor and the various addon armour.
The reputation of our MBT is on the line and so hopefully we have given Ukraine the best possible setup to ensure it isn’t a flop. Let’s face it ch3 isn’t a major defensive change over ch2 and so if they fail it will impact the deterence they provide.
An interesting snippet : A Ukrainian work colleague told me that C2s will NOT go to the front line. He told me they will be used to relieve T80s on a ratio of 3:1 in the region between Kyiv and Belarus.
Apparently the C2 is too heavy to cross the bridges over the Dnipro river and they are worried about the logistic chain for C2 ammunition
Dont know how true this really is..
There was talk that the UK gov had placed heavy restrictions on their use, one of which was that they must not be used in areas that could be overrun and must only be used where they are recoverable. If true then it adds up with the position. Use them defensively to free up other tanks for offensive work.
I hate to see tanks used defensively. ‘Shock action’ is a major characteristic and advantage of MBTs.
Neither government is going to formally admit if there are any restrictions as that would defeat the purpose. So unless there are social media posts of them in action, we will probably never find out.
Leo2A4 with ERA must be about 62-65t, so not disimilar to CR2 without TES kit (ie as pictured). Can Leo2 cross Dnipro bridges?
There must also be a logistic chain issue with the smoothbore 120mm ammunition for Leo2, as that is not a standard calibre for UA.
105mm will have to sourced as well if Leo 1 is on the way!
Where there is a will there will be a way found. We aren’t talking hundreds of tanks, so floating them across with pontoon bridges is always an option.
Yep Steve. I was EME to 28 Amphibious Engineer Regiment many years ago then equipped with the M2 rig and later on, the M3 Rig. Ferries and pontoon bridges have been in many armies’ inventories for many years.
Are they not getting the add on armour kits?