Typhoon jets deployed in Lithuania have carried out mock air attacks to test the defences of NATO warships operating in the Baltic Sea, say the RAF.

“The RAF Typhoons from 6 Squadron are currently based at Šiauliai Air Base in Lithuania, with 135 Expeditionary Air Wing, to primarily conduct the NATO Air Policing mission.  In addition to this mission however the RAF are also conducting training activities and exercises with other NATO Allies and regional partners.

The Air Maritime training exercise saw the Typhoons being used to test the air defences of the Standing NATO Maritime Group 1 Task Force, commanded by Commodore Yngve Skoglund of the Royal Norwegian Navy in his flagship HNoMS Otto Sverdrup.  The NATO ships were subjected to simulated air attack from high-performance fighter aircraft and air-launched anti-ship missiles.”

The RAF also add that 135 EAW will be supporting wider NATO training activities alongside their Baltic Air Policing mission.

“During the tour the Typhoon pilots will be conducting Air Defence, Close Air Support and Air Combat training with NATO partners.”

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Cam
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Cam

Great are we joining with russia? Mock!!

Daniele Mandelli
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Daniele Mandelli

A modern Sea Eagle would be handy. If they won’t arm our ships with a new ASM at least arm the jets.

Paul T
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Paul T

Daniele – If the Brown stuff really hit the fan im sure we in the UK still possess the necessary skills to cobble something together,remember what was achieved in the Falklands War with ad-hoc Missile fits on different Aircraft.Failing that im sure the Italians would give us a heads up in using the Marte ER off of our Typhoons.

Paul.P
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Paul.P

I didn’t think RAF Typhoons were equipped with an AShM. Did I miss something?

Daveyb
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Daveyb

Technically speaking Storm Shadow could be used to target a ship. It has an imaging infra red sensor used for target recognition, that is behind the jetisonable nose cone. Not sure if it could hit a moving target though? But as a ship is relatively slow, maybe it’s possible? The latest version of Storm Shadow has a two way data-link, so it can be retargeted whilst in flight, so it has pretty much everything in place but a software enhancement to hit a ship, making it in essence a larger version of Kongsberg’s JSM.

Paul.P
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Paul.P

That’s interesting. Thx. I thought Storm Shadow relied only on GPS and was limited to fixed land targets. In flight retargeting and an image sensor database do imply a capability against moving targets; which begs the question what would supply the targeting?

DaveyB
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DaveyB

Storm Shadow is going through a mid-life upgrade program at the moment, It uses a combination of sensors for navigation such as GPS, inertial navigation and terrain referencing. The imaging infra-red (IIR) sensor views/measures the image against a known library image of the target, to make sure it strikes the programmed target. The weapon’s AI will also check to make sure it can do a clean strike without undue collateral damage. The library picture can be generated in a number of ways, such as digital photography, Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar (ISAR) equipped aircraft and satellite surveillance. Also with the new… Read more »

Paul.P
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Paul.P

Thx. Will it be fitted to F-35B?

Steve
Guest
Steve

can storm shadow operate effectively in an ocean environment, in other words can it reliable sea skim, if not it would be easy canon fodder for the ship is attacking air defence.

Daveyb
Guest
Daveyb

Yes, it can go down to 25m above sea level. It is a multi-mode attack system so can go in all low level or do a high-low approach. It has a special mode where it bunts up to 500+ft to dive in on the target to aid penetration against bunkers.

ETH
Guest
ETH

It won’t be fitted to the F35. By the time the F35’s are fully operational, the FCASW project should be near finished and so it was deemed costly to integrate a weapon for just 6 or so years. Before then they will make do with SPEAR 3.

Daniele Mandelli
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Daniele Mandelli

No. As they’re not!

Paul.P
Guest
Paul.P

Thx.
Glad to know I am holding the dementia at bay.😅

Daniele Mandelli
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Daniele Mandelli

You and me both mate.

Frank62
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Frank62

Far too sensible & useful for the MOD to allow.

billythefish
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billythefish

Norwegian ships? Just dial up a 30,000MT product tanker and make a sneak attack!

Gareth
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Gareth

In the lead up to the Gulf War the RAF used to train with allied navies (particularly the US) in simulated low level exocet attacks, where one plane would be the “attacking” aircraft and the other would be the “missile”. The “missile” plane would fly very close, and just under the wing of the attacker and, at the moment of “firing”, would kick in reheat and make very high speed low level pass over the target ship. It’s possible they use the same procedures now.

Gunbuster
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Gunbuster

Still do that on Thursday wars

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

You leave harbour doing a restricted navigation track through a simulated cleared minefield which limits manoeuvring. At this point you get hit by FGA aircraft with Rockets, cannons and bombs. The upperdeck gun crews get some good practise doing “Daga, Daga Daga” noises over the Gunnery broadcast! When in open water you then do missile attacks with 2 aircraft simulating attacks,one as the carrier using a radar simulator pod and the other as the missile using a homing head pod. This tests EW, Radar and missile systems along with the OPS room crew controlling CAP as you need to manage… Read more »

Steve
Guest
Steve

My reaction when i read the headline, was attack them with what.

Yes in theory multiple missiles could be used to attack a surface vessel, but we don’t have anything in the arsenal that is dedicated for the role, which is nuts as a island nation.

Trevor
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Trevor

Well in theory they will not actually be firing real weapons. So they wont be attacking with anything at all.

nathan
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nathan

a numerical model…..

Rob
Guest
Rob

What with, iron bombs? RN & RAF fast jets need a stand off anti-ship missile. Even the old Sea Eagle is better than what we have now. Rather than developing something new & very expensive the MOD should buy something off the shelf.

ETH
Guest
ETH

The MoD are looking to buy a new ship launched anti-ship missile off the shelf, being air launched was not one of the requirements. That role will be filled when the Anglo-French FCASW missile is finished, in about 10 years.

Steve
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Steve

and realistically about 20 years

Steve
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Steve

Let’s just hope we don’t have a naval war in the meantime.

Jason Holmes
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Jason Holmes

Attack them with what??

Steve H
Guest
Steve H

Colourful language… We’re the experts in that field!!!
On a more serious note, why can’t we acquire a half decent number of LRASM’s for this task? There will be situations where we can’t ask the USAF B-1B’s for a hand and in reality…. nor should we need to. If an enemy knows that we have some and we aren’t afraid to use them, it will make them think twice, just think back to the Falklands conflict and how much of a headache it was for the Royal Navy just knowing that the Argies had a handful of Exocets…….

julian1
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julian1

what is to stop Typhoon using Brimstone as a stop-gap, at least against smaller vessels? I know it wouldn’t kill a ship, but it could take out its gun, its radars, its helipad. Perhaps a few hits could render a frigate both defenceless and offenceless?
Just a thought in the absence of a proper ASM

Nigel Collins
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Nigel Collins

As DaveyB mentions above, with a software upgrade Storm Shadow could be a very useful stop-gap? “Storm Shadow is an Anglo-French low-observable air-launched cruise missile, developed since 1994 by Matra and British Aerospace, and now manufactured by MBDA. Storm Shadow is the British name for the weapon; in French service, it is called SCALP EG.” Wikipedia Length: 5.1 m Operational range: over 300 nmi (560 km; 350 mi) Lo-Lo profile Guidance system: Inertial, GPS and TERPROM. Terminal guidance using imaging infrared DSMACWarhead: 450 kilograms (990 lb) BROACH (Bomb Royal Ordnance Augmented Charge) Engine: Turbomeca Microturbo TRI 60-30 turbojet, producing 5.4… Read more »

julian1
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julian1

SS is a pretty big missile but a Typhoon only carries 2 of them. Could be tested though.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

With a range of 350mi+ and a 990 lb warhead, it’s going to make any potential adversary think twice! All it requires in terms of cost is a software upgrade.

A stockpile of these for air and sea operations would clearly be useful. A land-based option is also available mounted on a mobile launching system.

“Kongsberg plans to add its Joint Strike Missile to the Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jet’s weapons package”

https://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/archive-world-worldwide-news-air-force-aviation-aerospace-air-military-defence-industry/defense-security-exhibitions-news/air-show-2017/lima-2017-bis/lima-2017-news-coverage-report-bis/3367-kongsberg-s-jsm-missile-to-be-added-to-eurofighter-typhoon-weapons-package.html

Meirion X
Guest
Meirion X

If the MoD fitted the Sylver A70 system to Type 26 frigates , a much wider range of missiles could be use then if they fitted Mk. 41 of which only ASROC would be useful to the RN, even then have to use the outdated Mk 54 torpedo.

Meirion X
Guest
Meirion X

The MoD needs to develop it’s own ASROC with Stingray torpedo fitted to be launched by Sylver system.

Paul T
Guest
Paul T

Meiron X – yes read the extensive thread on the STRN site which brings up two questions (1) why on earth was the A70 not fitted to the Type 45 ? think it would have opened up more options for little extra cost and (2) A70 should equip the Type 26 instead of the MK41 for the same reasons – are these choices that difficult to make ?.

Dave Ham
Guest
Dave Ham

It would need a dual mode seeker with the ability to attack ships which would be vastly expensive. LRASM off the shelf and integrated on typhoon, F35 and the surface fleet.
LRASM is based on JASSM-ER and will get a land attack/anti ship dual role , and with a booster will fit in Mk41 of the type 26 and potentially type 45 if 16 cells were added.
So simple we wont do it…..

Meirion X
Guest
Meirion X

I agree, make more use of Storm Shadow for both Air and Sea launched systems.

julian1
Guest
julian1

Would SS be easy to shoot down by CIWS? It’s large, not particularly fast or agile. Perhaps its the best we’ve got for now – for large targets anyway

Meirion X
Guest
Meirion X

The MoD procured
900 of SS in the 2000s.
Also if Sylver A70 is fitted on T26, they would be able to be launched SS in numbers.

Dave Ham
Guest
Dave Ham

Storm Shadow is an air launched missile, it’s the same is the french air launched Scalp , but the naval version of scalp is considerable different and larger, with a booster and shaped for submarine capsules and the sylver launcher.
You could not use the RAF stocks of Storm shadow from ships without a vast amount of money when TLAM is cheaper and longer ranges and would fit in Mk41 strikelength which is planned for Type 26.

Meirion X
Guest
Meirion X

What about SS being launched by a P8?

David Flandry
Guest
David Flandry

Could be done but someone needs to get off their keister and produce a missile.

Steve H
Guest
Steve H

Why bother spending an absolute fortune on R&D and the rest of the process when you can buy one off the shelf….. like the LRASM? It’s F-35 friendly so in my opinion, it makes perfect sense. I know it’s about $3 million per missile but it would give us a capability that we don’t currently have…. especially as we’ve invested so much in the CSG thing.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Hi Steve H, I think that is one of the problems, we tend to buy off the shelf rather than develop our own. MBDA is more than capable of developing a very useful version of SS for the purpose we’re talking about, only requiring a software solution for now. Reducing the current size of the warhead to say 800lb and adding more fuel plus an EW capability would still make this a game-changer. As an example, Exocet warhead: ‎165 kilograms (364 lb) we are all aware of the damage it caused. Cost is another factor. Storm Shadow unit cost €850,000… Read more »

Meirion X
Guest
Meirion X

The LRASM will not fit the internal bay of a F-35B, it is nearly 4.3m.

Steve H
Guest
Steve H

It only takes one to give an enemy’s warship a really bad day, it only took one Exocet to destroy the HMS Sheffield and it only took one to sink the Atlantic Conveyor. Despite of their size, Frigates and Destroyers are quite fragile and even a single hit on the superstructure could take one out of the fight.

Steve H
Guest
Steve H

I don’t see why not mate, war often creates the necessity to cobble together a compromise for certain situations and the Storm Shadow could be that tool for the job.
The other thing is….. Couldn’t we just use THE LRASM?

Steve R
Guest
Steve R

Isn’t that basically Spear 3? When’s that due to enter service?

julian1
Guest
julian1

yes it is but without any of the updates or optimizations. i’m just thinking if they needed a platform that could air launch multiple missiles at moving targets (small ships) tomorrow, then Brimstone may offer something. too small a payload to take out anything bigger than OPV but considering Typhoon can carry large numbers, a mass launch might immobilize a frigate/destroyer. Storm Shadow for single hit/larger vessels. Better than nothing.

Steve R
Guest
Steve R

An F35 can carry 6 internally, more externally (at the cost of stealth), a Typhoon could easily carry 2-3 times that number. Even the 6 could mission-kill a frigate or destroyer, take it out of the fight without having to sink it. 12 or more would royally f*ck up any ship.

nathan
Guest
nathan

Plus, multiple launches would make interception difficult.

Steve R
Guest
Steve R

Imagine 2 Typhoons carrying 24 Brimstone between them; any ship would be hard pressed to defend against that. Multiply that by X amount of Typhoons or F35s and any ship, or even a carrier battle group, would have serious problems.

Steve H
Guest
Steve H

Brimstone would be perfect for small targets, yes, but for larger, more juicy targets we should invest in the F-35 friendly LRASM. At $3 million each it might seem pricey but its a great standoff weapon and if an opponent knows you’ve got them in your toy box, they might think twice about doing something. You only have to look at the Falklands conflict and the Argie Air Force/Exocet combo and how much of a headache that caused for the Royal Navy, it absolutely terrified the task force commanders.

Watcherzero
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Watcherzero

Brimstone is certified against naval craft:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo86Sy7_kuw

BB85
Guest
BB85

Didn’t realism we equipped them with anti ship missiles