The UK DragonFire laser programme – led by MBDA, with partners Leonardo UK and QinetiQ – is accelerating following a decision from the Ministry of Defence to install the weapon system on Royal Navy ships.
The decision, announced by Defence Secretary Grant Shapps, will see the DragonFire laser weapon system rapidly develop from a demonstration programme to an operational capability for the Royal Navy.
The next stages of this development will include further live firings and the manufacture and installation of weapon systems onto Royal Navy platforms.
“The UK DragonFire programme is a flagship example of the Government’s new Integrated Procurement Model, designed to reform defence procurement and drive increased pace in the delivery of military capability.
The UK DragonFire programme brings together the best of UK industry. It leverages MBDA’s decades of weapon system manufacturing expertise, Leonardo’s position as a world leading authority in laser technology, electro-optics and advanced targeting and QinetiQ’s experience as the only UK company to successfully develop and safely operate high-energy laser sources in the UK and coherent beam-combining technology.”
The latest announcement follows a series of highly successful firing trials that demonstrated the capability of the DragonFire laser weapon system.
DragonFire has been developed through a £100 million joint investment by industry and the UK Ministry of Defence, working with Dstl.
Chris Allam, MBDA UK Managing Director, said:
“MBDA are proud to lead this laser weapon programme that will give the UK Armed Forces game-changing operational advantage to protect and defend themselves, and the UK’s strategic assets.”
Mark Stead, Leonardo UK SVP Radar and Advanced Targeting, said:
“Leonardo welcomes the commitment to UK science and engineering represented by today’s announcement. The development of DragonFire is securing vital skills and security capabilities onshore in the UK, keeping them available to support our Armed Forces and generate world-class, readily exportable products.”
Steve Wadey, Group CEO, QinetiQ, said:
“Today’s announcement is a positive endorsement of UK industry and government working together, to deliver equipment to the front line.
“Our team of scientists and engineers who have developed this world leading capability have played a unique role in developing a technology that will provide real operational advantage.”
Meanwhile, I’m reading some of the RNs urgently needed T26 may be diverted to Norway.
Make ‘em wait till the new shed can build two at a time
We’ll take a decade to get the frigate factories up to full speed.
Can I say No! And Yes! At the same time? No – the Royal Navy needs the ships now but yes – great to get in some exports. Where have you read this?
Thin Pinstriped line on Twitter. Sir Humphreys blog. BAES in talks. I like the export idea but not with the current state of the RN! HMT will no doubt jump at it.
I’ve just read on MSN and The Telegraph online too. It does exactly help explain the recent investment in the yard. If they can pick up build schedule, maybe even contacting out block work, it’s surely worth a 12-18 month delay on ship 3 to get a massive export win?
Spookily they announced last week that some steel fabrication for T26 is being subbed out the CL and A&P on Merseyside.
Oh and I 100% agree with you it’s a 1 ship delay, so short term pain for a long term gain.
By the way I’m Derby based but damn we were so glad when BW (a Tory) took SFM into public ownership and invested in the Steel City.
Too many people just look at the immediate and forget that keeping our Industrial capacity going is a Strategic Necessity.
Oh and sorry but can’t resist COYR we’re going up ⚽️
That’s a worry, to be honest, nice that BAE could get orders….but we are so bare bones on the escort fleet it’s not great timing.
I’m with you on this. Although exports are great, and Norway, a close ally, whose use of them directly helps secure the GIUK gap, the thought of waiting even longer horrifies me.
A delay might mean we can find some matelots to crew it.
With HNMS on their cap bands !
I suppose thinking about it more it depends how long it would take BAE to shuffle through them with the new shed…in theory they could manage 2 in the new shed and one in old shed and one outside the old shed…so they could likely manage both a UK and Norwegian order….the issue would be workforce……but the Uk could steel those from others…
the delivery would need to be 2029…
so looking at the launch schedule as a finger in the wind with the RN hulls we have and the potential slots we have ( old shed, outside, new shed 3, new shed 4)
outside:
Cardiff- 2024
Space 2025 onward
old shed:
belfast -2025
Space 2025 onward
New shed
belfast 2025-2026 ( early work done in old shed)
Birmingham 2025-2027 ( much early work done other yards)
Sheffield 2026-2028 ( early work done from 2024)
Newcastle 2027-2029 (early work done from 2025)
Edinburgh 2029-2031 ( early work done from 2026)
London 2030-2032 ( early work done from 2027)
Effectively BAE could start building a Norwegian frigate in the old shed from next year without impacting on the RN work much at all…
Or the RN could hand over one of its hulls with a new one being laid down in old shed in 2025 on the proviso it gets another small batch really cheap ( after all the price has been driven down to about .8billion per ship in the second batch…I’m sure BAE could do even better on a third batch if the RN helped it get a further order of 5 hulls.
All in all it would actually be amazing for a 5 ship order starting from 2029 ( I would imagine it would be a decade long programme)..which would keep the BAE yard in frigates well up to the point the T83 design was ready for laying down.
There is also the distinct possibility of a workshare agreement/alliance w/ CL, A&P, H&W, etc. If UK PLC accelerates the pace of program, perhaps it becomes cost competitive as a 2nd source to USN? 🤔
Believe current US law requires domestic production, but USN is clamoring for any/every reputable company to open additional shipyards and BAES already has a thriving naval business w/ Uncle Sugar. (Actually surprised BAES has not floated the concept of a teaming arrangement to boost USN SSN production.)
Six, the Norwegian Navy want Six ASW frigates
2029 we’ll still be waiting for our own.
M8 Sometimes I have to resist the temptation to scream, this is one of those moments.
We, us, our are all singular expressions, I believe you are ex Army and of a generation when we had BAOR.
So you served alongside other NATO members who all had different equipment to you but still had the same objective.
What you relied on was your neighbour, fighting alongside you and doing as good a job as you.
We are part of NATO the GIUK gap is part of NATO tasking and right now it doesn’t matter a damn if we deliver 8 HMS T26 in 10 years time to fill that task or 7 plus 1 with an extra “N” as in the title ie HNMS rather than HMS. It’s still 8 T26 in 10 years time ! Except its now 12/13 T26 instead of just 8 and Norway are paying for and crewing 4/5 of them.
They will be exactly the same ships, doing exactly the same job, fighting the same potential enemy and we get to build them all.
So by just agreeing to delay 1 single HMS being delivered but being an HNMS we still get our full 8, but with 4/5 extra friends right along with us.
I don’t think most folks understand just exactly what the T26 is, Australia and Canada get it. It’s an amazing bit of kit and I’d love it if there were more of them up in GIUK gap and someone else is paying the bills.
Mate, lol, I’m not ex army or ex anything.
I’m 52, so I know about the Cold War and BAOR.
My mistake M8, but your knowledge of Army indicates that was their loss 😉
Bless you mate, thank you.
It is a risk for the RN. But for the bigger picture. It could be a risk worth taking for such a close ally.
Bae did interestingly say that if they didn’t get more orders or exports there could be a gap to the T-45 replacement to fill, perhaps by slowing down T-26 programme. So will be interesting to see how they fit this new work in to the schedules?
And somehow squeeze a type 83 and the T31 Into the workload. We’re not going OUR ships never mind anyone else😡😡
We need those ships now not whenever what more important the protection of the nation and the people, or the bank balance?
Wish USN could place an order for T-26, not feeling very comfortable w/ the choice of Constellation Class from Fincanteri at the moment (3 yr. delivery delay recently announced and program has barely begun). 🤔😳😱☹️
Yep What you should have done is not specify “must be an existing, tried and tested design”. But when you have 3 or 4 very different allies (including 60% of 5 eyes) all making the same decision (and choosing a very expensive one), they may actually have a point.
I think the Constellation class will be a good, well crafted GP Frigate, no more or less. And if you were to announce a 2nd supply stream and go for 50 it would be a great buy.
But just 20 when Canada will have 15 which can run circles around them, sorry that’s just embarrassing.
Oh and to cap it all, it’s as ugly as hell compared to the original Italian FREMM.
Yup, the Peter Principle is obviously alive and well w/in Uncle Sugar’s acquisition bureaucracy. “We have met the enemy, and they is us,” in the words of the immortal Pogo of the Okifanoki swamp. 🙄
Actually, a second source may be an inspired concept! Hell, if we can have two vendors for the Little Crappy Ships, why not for real surface escorts? 🤔😳
The LCS1 is disaster and hence it’s going OOS pronto, but the LCS2 has some uses due to the sheer internal volume and speed of them.
The bit that would make me bloody nervous is they are being built at the same yard that produced the LCS1 🥴
IMHO the US should open a yard on the West Coast and get the Japanese to manage it. That would deliver ships quickly and shake the “US Military / Industrial” complex to the core, which is probably way overdue.
Really, 3 years and it’s supposed to have been the safe option too thus making relative limitations in the original design worth the compromise so as to get it into the water quickly. I guess the considerable redesign for US use has had a debilitating effect. The US isn’t having much luck with new designs of ships what with the Littoral debacle. Can see why endlessly upgrading older designs has been the norm but that does have its limits and that may become more stark with the quality of the Chinese output these days.
Yes, quite concerned USN program managers may have caught a full case of British Army redesign fever. 😱😉
It also means you loose the design skills to make new designs…
An its likely to cost more than a T26!
The issue with the Constellation class is that the US has basically bastardised the FREMM design and came up with something more resembling the Navantia offering that they could have chosen – no doubt they would do the same with the Type 26 if they wanted to migrate to another Ship.
It will effect nothing this decade and just 1 frigate out of 8 being delayed.
The only thing that would change the present crisis is if we could send Arnie back in time to 2010 and tell Cameloon to order the T26 right then.
We have what we have, and look on the bright side if you think the RN is a mess try the Russians.
Hi Rodney, the issue is Norway want the first frigate delivered by 2029…so if the RN gave up a hull it would be Cardiff or Belfast…so hull 2 or 3…it may be worth it if the RN get some considerable benefit budget wise in aiding BAE in getting five orders.
There are things that can be done as it’s not impossible to get 3 T26 hulls for 2028 and that is profoundly important in regards to china as it’s matching chinas potential high point for invading Taiwan ( 2027-2028).. so it would be a real balance of benefit vs risk.
They want it by 2029? We’ll still be waiting for the Glasgow fss!!
Yes and rather like the US extending subs to Australia in reality they will be doing fundamentally the same job in the same place whoever is actually operating them so might help with crewing if one wants to be positive.
Should have offered the Aussies the retiring Trafalgar class boats. My lad. Was on Torbay when it retired and the consensus of the captain, crew, and the yard ,was, that they all had years of service left in them.
M8 Just hold fire for a minute, the devil is in the detail and it may actually be a great big cream cake with a Cherry on Top.
Norway has 4 Nansen class light frigates that are a decade newer than our T23. They will be refitted so probably good for another decade.
Secondly the Telegraph reports that BAe is asking if they can delay 1 T26 delivery to accommodate a possible Norwegian order. So you get 7 out of 8 on schedule.
I’d snap their hand off in a second because BAe will have the funding to accelerate the build process and that may mean a minimum delay.
There is also a potential major gain for the long term future of the RN. If Norway orders 4/5 T26 frigate, it increases the production run which lowers the cost per hull. Which means the RN may find a T26 B3 buy more affordable and maybe attract other exports.
Also don’t forget non of this effects the present state of the RN it’s nearly a decade in the future and you could always just boost numbers OA by adding an extra T31.
Getting the U.K back into Naval exports from our shipyards is IMHO a prize that’s worth delaying just one Frigate.
Like most folks I’ve listened to rumour mills most of my life, and usually they are just wishful thinking or Male Bovine Manure. But last week I read something that suggests to me that this may just be true.
I read through all the posts from George about BAe on the Clyde and buried away in the detail was that CL and A&P will be doing Steel work for the BAe T26. 🤔
That was completely out of the left field and really had my brain box going as BAe never subs work unless they really need to. Or HMG pays them to do so (see T45 build for example).
My fire is held, mate.
Thanks for putting reality into context.
If it happens it’s bloody brilliant. To put it into context I can understand why the US is being Arsey about RAN wanting to buy / lease some Virginias. Same boats, same mission and someone else footing the bill.
Don’t forget that Cammell Laird have been subcontracting to BAE at Barrow for a number of years, I’m not sure if they make actual hull sections but they are certainly making internal units, which by definition have to be to a very high standard.
Last blocks they built were either the T45 or Parts for the QE’s.
… and that certainly explains why Bae suggested that T-26 might need to be slowed if no new work is ordered to start within 9 years, so pretty much hinting that there will be a delay to T-26 probably not dissimilar to any inherent delay in producing this order… u less the MoD fancy coughing up the cash and giving them additional orders. Canny play though probably pushing against an already open door in reality where the Govt is concerned.
Well as its 2029 for the first Norwgian T26, so RN could stop gap with one more T31, but RN must demand all 8 T26 hulls plus 1 more stop gap T31 for their troubles.
Difficult one this, the prime operating sector for these ships preventing Russian subs from breaking into the North Atlantic and Icelandic gap is the edge of the Barent sea down the coast of Norway into the North Sea so it will certainly be great news to think the best ship class to do that will be operated by the Norwegians. Wouldn’t the Norwegians be able to build their own version of this with perhaps the first being built here to get them one asap.
they certainly ought to be able to do some of the block work which could help speed up production on the Clyde. But even 1 on the Clyde & the rest built in Norway woud still mean exports for Rolls Royce & other UK suppliers (esp. if they don’t go like RAN with a different radar & Combat System).
As long as they’re happy with a 15 year wait.
I think we need to as it secured BAE’s build and gets T26 exporting.
If #3 is sold for its £1.2Bn price tag and replaced with a £800 T26 from Batch 2.2!!!
There are big long term savings here in training and spares stocks.
As well as having a fully integrated ally.
Daily Telegraph and Shephard Media.
Shepardmedia and the Telegraph, they are saying that if BAE get the contract for the new Norwegian frigates BAE might need to delay the delivery of hull three and four which I think is Belfast and Birmingham to meet the Norwegian time line. In some ways I would say yes as it would or could mean an extra 5-6 T26 type frigates being built and possibly built in the UK. The Norwegians are looking at the possibility of six ASW frigates at the same time the US Navy is reporting at the moment a three year delay in the delivery of the first Constellation class frigate.
The Norwegians operate in the same areas, are looking at a good ASW frigate with AAW capability. The Norwegian navy has a close relationship with the RN and they also produce some parts of the T26 such as the mast, bulwarks etc. They also want to jump into a production line, share training, midlife upgrades and maintenance work.
However the RN is in real need for frigates. A possible idea would be to say yes, but to increase the T31s say to 8 hulls using the potential savings of the T26 build to off set the extra cost. All 8 T31s to be completed by 2031. For a intrim solution use the sonar suites from the T23s on the T31s if possible. This is not a pure anti submarine frigate but if it means five extra ships being built in the UK reducing overall costs then I think a three year delay is acceptable. There is one other advantage, the BAE workforce, if BAE did get the contract for 5-6 ASW frigates for Norway to be built in the UK it would give HM Gov a bit more time for the T83 project and T32 project.
Wonder if it could also mean CAMM-ER/ MR which after Sweden would be great news also?
Great commentaries everyone, hope this all comes to fruition and maybe an extra bonus ship for the RN.
Behave, Sir!
🤗
Good news getting more orders ,but don’t want to see the RN left with 🚣 🙄 🇬🇧
Evening mate, I heard it might be hulls 3 and 4. I would potentially be ok with that, especially if the Norwegian order allows them to go full bore on construction. They are apparently expecting to be able to get a hull done in 12 months by the end of the run, if I read the latest Save the Royal Navy piece.
Don’t mind hulls three and six, three and five at a pinch with a really good compensating upside, but three and four is pushing it. That will mean a big old ASW gap in the RN in the early 2030s as we can’t stretch the T23s further.
An extra Type 31 alone is no compensation as it can’t do ASW. We need to buy/develop ultraquiet USVs that can deploy towed thin-line arrays, or at least lightweight ones and learn to use several multi-static at a distance from a Type 31 or another mothership of some kind. We can order small USVs quickly and potentially deploy them before the end of the decade. Something like the ARCIMS boats (11m to 15m) deploying SEA’s KraitArray, which RN has already tested with Manta, or Atlas’s own ACTAS sonar — I’m not sure what Ultra has in this area if anything. Alone these may not be a patch on a Thales Captas-4, but perhaps used in quantity with fused signal processing, especially in shallower waters, they might help fill a (GIUK) gap.
A small crumb of comfort is that all 7 Astute Subs will be operational in the relevant timeframe.
Fair point, I’ll revise my position to the 3 and 5 option.
I think the compensation is that our yards will get another 2 to backfill those, and potentially 1 or 2 more to fulfil Norway’s order if they don’t want to build their own. That’s a significant amount of extra CAPEX on a hull that’s somewhere a little north of £1B, not to mention retaining skilled workforce for another 2-4 years to cover the (almost certain) delay in awarding T83 work, plus the reduction in overall programme cost for T26. If Norway are buying some, then it may even tempt others to, although I can’t think of many other nations that need a high-end ASW frigate and don’t have the capability to build one themselves.
I agree that T23 won’t be able to run further than we’ve already pushed them, so there will be some gap. And yes, T31 isn’t really a replacement. But, as you say, it will give some opportunity for unmanned systems to get some intense input- which I think will be beneficial in the long run, in maintaining our position of excellence in ASW within NATO.
I think we’ve already got such a massively delayed T26 build program we shouldn’t divert & delay any further until all 8 RN T26 are built. If we had spare shipbuilding capacity it wouldn’t be a problem but we’re fully occupied. The fleet is way too small.
A possible Norwegian order would be too good/lucrative to turn down regardless of the woes of the RN Fleet.
It shouldn’t be about Norway it should be All about the RN
Navy needs those ships now not whenever.
Absolutely Andy.
I think we all have the same feelings but in the longer term it would be great news for the RN as it gets us a volume production run, which will bring costs down and for the metal bashing trades bridge the gap to following classes of vessels. Could we even up our own order and take advantage of a cheaper unit cost whilst perhaps ordering another 3-5 Type 31s (batch 2s) possibly lengthened with enhanced AAW capability. We could consign the Type 32 to the bin and focus design efforts on MRSS and the Type 83.
Fantasy stuff? I no longer think so as it does sound like even in Westminster the mood music is at last changing for an uplift in defence expenditure in the near term.
The introduction of Dragonfire now in 2027 to an extent demonstrates this trend as we now are seeing the threats for real.
We just need more platforms and more importantly an increase in personnel numbers.
I don’t share your optimism I’m afraid. Increasing numbers costs money I very much doubt a Labour government will provide.
There are a few things they are interested in and defence isn’t one of them. And if Starmer is somehow removed like Johnson and Truss were and the left take over, well it’s goodnight.
From a political perspective you are of course correct but because they tend to offer more support to industry they quite often invest more than the Tories who seem know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
I agree on the industry, manufacturing side. Though that has it’s own issues.
How many billions are going on AUKUS, GCAP and what is the UK military actually getting for that, conventional numbers wise? I’d guess another inadequate number of SSNR, 7 or 8 at most, and less than 100 Tempest.
Meanwhile numbers still fall off a cliff.
I think on both we have the opportunity with collaboration to keep unit costs down by having a larger production run, which might help us afford more. However, particularly with SSNR the physical increase in the size of each boat could offset any savings we may make.
Obviously both projects are cutting edge but we do need to guard against making them too complex, specification creep and trying to put too much new technology in one platform.
A very difficult ask, which requires strong project management skills.
Been doing some maths and looking at the Statement made by BAe’s MD last week about build rate.
Sub out some Steel Fabrication to CL and A&P helps avoid bottle necks. But the next bit is even better…
Cut the total build per ship from 96 months down to 60 months and compress the Lay down / Delivery schedule from 18 months between start dates to 12 months.
And don’t forget they are assembling 2 side by side.
So overall that’s one hell of a speed up, which means not to big a delay overall at the back end of the delivery’s.
Or to put it in context an annual drumbeat of deliveries, just like the T45 and T23 before them.
Maybe they need an even bigger hall !🤣
Also had a look at foreign alternatives and to be honest nothing comes close in ASW capability to a T26 nor has such a large user base (8 RN, 6 RAN, 15 RCN), all using the same hull, engines etc.
Looking at Norways recent experience with the Nansen class they are very much wanting to buy off the shelf with commonality with Allies. Hence the order for German AIP submarines rather Sweden and the T26 ticks the same box.
Many people don’t know that Norway is one of the richest countries on Earth, so has extremely deep pockets.
If you want a surprise look up the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth funds, just one of them is bigger than our entire National debt.
Just one final thought but if Norway do buy 5 and seeing as how they operate ASW in the same area as ourselves, do we actually need to order more T26 for the RN ?
I’d save the money and either increase the numbers of SSNs or the next class of T83 AAW ships.
Thank you for the deeper analysis mate.
I’d always go for more SSN than surface escorts any day.
FYI SSNR is now no longer used its SSN(A). And the design is rumoured to be just about mature enough to start thinking about how it’s all going to come together. Then the fun starts because they long lead items will need to be ordered years before the build starts.
Thanks mate.
You asked “and what is the UK military actually getting for that, conventional numbers wise”.
In the case of AUKUS it’s all about the numbers and costs, the numbers required force efficiencies to be paramount. And those drive down the costs, which me and you can afford to buy more.
You only need to look at the T26 to see the difference between an old fashioned, under capitalised and inefficient build (B1) and the newer and more efficient process (B2).
£1.31 billion per hull for B1 compared to £840 million for B2.
Total cost £8.1 billion but if the build had been properly capitalised from the start we could have had 10 for just £300 million more.
The trick is to agree the force the Politicians to actually use the savings on extra kit.
Sorry try prayer for that one as nothing else works 🤷🏼♂️
Where?
Royal navy leads the world which is nice. Let’s hope it’s a compliment to, not a replacement for, ciws etc
I find that rather difficult to believe, they have enough trouble producing their own high tech weapons, Armata, Su57 little more than mythical beasts, no ability to produce new AWACS, missing tech from tanks, civil airliners dropping out of the sky, heating systems/pumps unfixed all due to incompetence or pressure on receiving/replacing Western parts or expertise so I find it difficult to believe they can just back engineer complex Western tech and produce in numbers even if their own propaganda or the Daily Mail will give that impression. We must be conscious of something they are excellent at ie creating propaganda to dampen Western support and enthusiasm.
More relavent mind who the hell is talking about sending T-26 to Ukraine when we can’t even get mine sweepers there. Are you perchance thinking of DragonFire which will be fitted to T-26?
The complete under investment and constant delaying of decisions and orders for the navy is on the verge of being found out. If isreal strikes back hard at Iran, I can see Iran coming against the RN for the UK involvement of shooting down its drones. They won’t want to go directly after the US and so the UK will be a proxy. Let’s hope all RN ships in the region are fully armed and ready to fight.
Also the UK government need to start getting a bloody move on when it comes down to Defence 👍
Fully agreed.
Both Labour and the Tories should both agree that, whomever wins the next election, defence will increase to a minimum of 2.5% immediately after the general election.
Personally, I’d say 3%, but even 2.5 is an improvement of around £10-15 billion a year extra.
The slowly widening scope of conflict today reminds me of how the WW2 started as a series of regional wars that gradually got rolled into one huge conflagration.
We currently have a group of countries China, Russia, Iran and North Korea (being the main ones) who are seeking to remake the world, by force if necessary, to suite their own ends. I think of the grouping as being not entirely dissimilar to the group of nations that became know as the Axis Powers. Neither the current group or the Axis can be called an alliance in the same way that NATO is an alliance, but they may well take advantage of each others actions triggering a series of wars that suddenly get rolled up into one.
We live in dangerous times – Ukraine, Middle East, Ballistic Missiles over Japan and Taiwan, and they are just the headline opportunities for a miscalculation.
UK politicians need to get their heads up and look around.
CR
I dont think there has been a single point in human history where one country or tribe tried to change others through force, including the British empire and over the last 60 years the US empire and now rising China and Iran.
The big challenge is the US has been seen to be weak and a bad ally in recent times, whether it’s abandoning the kurds to Turkey, afgan, constant Iran proxy wars, Ukraine and now isreal. Their weakness is empowering other nations to feel like they can act without consequences.
To be honest, Dragonfire would have little chance of being captured in places like Kyiv, Lviv, Odessa etc.
Keep it away from the front lines but put into civilian and industrial infrastructure in the western parts of the region; this could shoot down drones and incoming missiles without having to worry about ammunition supplies.
This would then enable more missile-based GBAD such as Patriot to be used more towards the frontlines, to keep Russian aircraft at bay.
It’s not a perfect solution but would help the Ukrainians make the most of their current air defence munitions shortage.
Watched the article on Forces .Net and it showed a simulation of a Frigate with a Dragonfire down the Stbd Waist would this imply that at least 2 Dragonfire would be fitted 1 portside 1 stbd side too each Frigate ?