Finland and Sweden have simultaneously handed in their official letters of application to join NATO.

The letters were conveyed by the Finnish Ambassador to NATO Klaus Korhonen and respectively, the Swedish Ambassador to NATO Axel Wernhoff, to NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg at the Alliance’s Brussels headquarters. Mr. Stoltenberg warmly welcomed the requests, saying “this is a good day, at a critical moment for our security.”

The following is a transcript of his remarks, as delivered.

“Ambassadors, dear Klaus, dear Axel, dear friends, good morning!

This is a good day, at a critical moment for our security.
Thank you so much for handing over the applications for Finland’s and Sweden’s membership in NATO.

Every nation has the right to choose its own path.
You have both made your choice, after thorough democratic processes.
And I warmly welcome the requests by Finland and Sweden to join NATO.
You are our closest partners.
And your membership in NATO would increase our shared security.

The applications you have made today are an historic step.
Allies will now consider the next steps on your path to NATO.
The security interests of all Allies have to be taken into account.
And we are determined to work through all issues and reach rapid conclusions.

Over the past few days, we have seen numerous statements by Allies committing to Finland’s and Sweden’s security.
NATO is already vigilant in the Baltic Sea region, and NATO and Allies’ forces will continue to adapt as necessary.

All Allies agree on the importance of NATO enlargement.
We all agree that we must stand together.
And we all agree that this is an historic moment, which we must seize.

So thank you, it is great to see you both.”

 

George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also works for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Andy P
Andy P
19 days ago

Over to you Turkey….

Jay R
Jay R
19 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Absolutely, for the 1st time in it’s history, I sense a fracture forming in NATO.

Bringer of facts
Bringer of facts
19 days ago
Reply to  Jay R

A fracture where Turkey breaks away and does its own thing ?

I think that process has already started under Erdogan’s rule, he is slowly turning Turkey from the froward looking secular state it was 20 years ago back into an Ottoman-like pro-Islamist state.

Last edited 19 days ago by Bringer of facts
Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
19 days ago

Spot on that’s his thinking, not unlike Putin’s thinking on returning to some Czarist Russia/Soviet past. Both deluded with historical dreams of pre eminence and actual control or enforced obedience from those around them and subservient client states just like the olden days to boost their Imperialist egos and standing amongst their people and leave a historical legacy. Of course in the past those two motivations led them into direct conflict indeed Russian expansion was very often fuelled by removing Ottoman power in what it perceived its back yard. Sounds rather familiar doesn’t it and would inevitably do so again… Read more »

John Clark
John Clark
19 days ago

Yep, they seem determined to go backwards and heading in an ‘Iranian’ direction.

It’s their funeral I suppose. Personally I would rather Turkey leaves and the Nordics join, if it comes to a choice between the two.

Turkish loyalty to NATO is increasingly questionable …. They do however provide strategic control of the Black Sea (as Denmark does for the Baltic) and provide key potential air basing options in the countries South East.

Ianbuk
Ianbuk
18 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

John, don’t discount Turkey too quickly. They object to Sweden shielding some of their domestic terrorist groups. I expect the Swedes will move these groups along to get Turkey’s acquiescence.

Turkey doesn’t want to face Russia on it’s own, no matter how poor their current form is in Ukraine. As you have pointed out, they hold the key to keeping Russia out of the Mediterranean and that helps the other NATO nations out.

Puffing Billy
Puffing Billy
18 days ago

That’s modern day Islam for you – dark ages, backward and primitive.

Bringer of facts
Bringer of facts
18 days ago
Reply to  Puffing Billy

“modern day” ?…. I would use the word regressive but then the followers of that faith have always seen its texts as absolute and immutable, it is a deep indoctrination that tolerates no criticism or change.

Last edited 18 days ago by Bringer of facts
James
James
17 days ago
Reply to  Puffing Billy

Has this platform become now an islamophobic racist platform?? Because I’m not going tolerate after anti Semitic comments I saw by some now to turn against the religion of 2 billion people and and see them called primitive it’s deeply offensive and disgusting ! UKdj it’s your duty to moderate hate speech which I’m going to report to the police . And shame on those that call this not out that use this platform

Last edited 17 days ago by James
George Parker
George Parker
17 days ago
Reply to  James

Sorry James but freedom of speech is one of the basic human rights that is none negotiable. All the others come from it. The choice to be offended by it is yours and yours alone my woke friend. Feel free! On the subject of this “islamophobia.” Criticism of a religious ideology is not hate speech. Telling people to strike the necks of others, is hate speech! Calling out a religion that promotes prejudice and hate is a duty of civilised people everywhere. An example; did you know that 2 people have been charged with witchcraft and beheaded in Saudi Arabia… Read more »

James
James
16 days ago
Reply to  George Parker

I don’t engage racist bigots that hide behind a screen! You truly are sickening and disgusting ! Your islamophobic views won’t make you or this country great and have nothing to do with freedom of speech. I agree with Mike Tyson social media comment , many hide behind a screen projecting their coward views

George Parker
George Parker
16 days ago
Reply to  James

James, you have attracted me and yet fail to counter any of the accurate, factual things I have said. Your weakly veiled threat of violence in the insults/Tyson quote, could be interpreted as hate speech. Despite this, I still respect your right to free speech and choose not to be threatened or insulted. It’s a real shame that you do not show the same respect to others. I feel obliged to say the following. Unlike you, I have placed myself in harms way to actually defend muslims and help liberate them from tyrants. Many are still good friends despite knowing… Read more »

Tommo
Tommo
18 days ago

Can’t see him returning ottermans
to the Crimea the French and the UK won’t help them this time

George Parker
George Parker
17 days ago

Well said. I’d like to see Turkey leave or be thrown out of NATO. With Finland, Sweden and Israel invited to join. No matter what happens it’s going to cause a ruckus. Why not give the hornets nest a real good whacking and change the geopolitical landscape.
There could even be a NATO Mk 2, with stringent military spending contributions, universal suffrage/democratic provisos and expulsion clauses.

Darren hall
Darren hall
18 days ago
Reply to  Jay R

Unless you look at France, 1966 to 2009, withdrawn its military assets from the military command of NATO, over its rights to self determination of its nuclear assets…
Or Greece, 1974 to 1980, over the Turkish invasion of Cyprus…

Even within ”Solid” NATO countries their is division, even within political parties. Labour and the SNP / Greens in the UK, Trump in the US etc…

NATO is the corner stone of western defence, however, that cornerstone is not as solid as people think…

Tomartyr
Tomartyr
19 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Something tells me Turkey’s EU application will go smoothly..

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
19 days ago
Reply to  Tomartyr

Like quickset concrete?

Mark
Mark
19 days ago
Reply to  Tomartyr

That application has been effectively dead for decades at this stage, Turkey was never a likely candidate for joining and its major sponsor is no longer in the EU.

Dern
Dern
19 days ago
Reply to  Mark

That and the one of the biggest opponents to Turkey joining the EU, Austria, isn’t in NATO.

Mark
Mark
19 days ago
Reply to  Dern

There are more than just Austria opposed to it, and with what has happened under Edrogan they have slid even further down the list of candidates.

Dern
Dern
19 days ago
Reply to  Mark

I didn’t say that there weren’t, I just said that Austria was “one of the biggest opponents.” That neither means that they are THE BIGGEST opponent, nor that they are the only one.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
19 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Can understand it go to any part of what was once the Austro Hungarian Empire and you will get a similar feel about it considering that Empire only held together to resist the Ottomans and they all spent 800 odd years or so being brutalised, enslaved and blackmailed by them. They get stick but I wonder how we would feel if we had to give, wealth and our sons and daughters to an alien presence just to stop them taking actual possession of your State and brutalising you in ways that make the Donbas look like a Kindergarten.

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Well to be fair, the Romans did it, the roman celts did it, then the Saxons did it….its a sort of standard thing to pay off the barbarians at the door so they keep happy and quite….tended to never end well mind as the above three found out ( what’s ironic is the Saxons first got paid off and took England from the Roman celts anyway and then in turn ended up trying to pay of the Danes, although for the Anglo Saxons it did give them time to get their act together and stabilise before kicking the Danes from… Read more »

Dern
Dern
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Most people the Romans came up against where conquered and then assimilated by Rome, the same, for the most part, goes for the Saxons, our history is as part of theirs. The Austrian history is about spending centuries successfully resisting the Ottomans. The hint is in the name Romano-British (Not Roman Celts, that’s a wider and much less focused term referring to basically all of Gaul, Iberia, and Britannia, and generally stops being used after the 1st century as Roman and Celtic became less distinguishable on the continent), they considered being Roman a core part of who they where, while… Read more »

Klonkie
Klonkie
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

interesting read Dern, thanks for posting.

Dern
Dern
18 days ago
Reply to  Klonkie

May have got a bit sidetracked…

Klonkie
Klonkie
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

interesting nonetheless 👌

Jonathan
Jonathan
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Interesting Dern, I would debate a couple of points. The ending Roman rule in in Britain is one of those up for grabs dates but most modern historians now think is more likely 409, as noted by zostimus, the 410 date comes from a confusion ( probably) around a proclamation from a honorius about an Italian province call Bruttium. Ive always used Romano Celt as thats generally considered the correct title for the specific blend of cultures, Romano Britain I would use to describe the time and place, Romano Celt the culture. I would also not say roman rule sat… Read more »

Dern
Dern
18 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The problem is “Romano-Celtic” refers to a specific thing, and that’s not the post-Roman culture of the British Isles, it’s the blended culture on the periphery of the Republic and (to a lesser extent) the early Empire. Even culturally the Romano-British of the 5th century are different from the Romano-Celtic cultures 400years earlier. While there isn’t anything terribly wrong with “Romano-Celtic” for post Roman-Britain (unless you’re Barry Cunliffe and want to argue that British Celtic isn’t Celtic at all), it’s best not to use the same phrase to describe two very separate things. As for not sitting easy, depends on… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Really interesting cheers. I know the Romano Celt usage is sloppy, but generally some pretty significant institutions such as the British museum, use the descriptor Romano Celt for discussions around a number of archeological sites in the U.K. specifically a number of religious sites and it’s a general acceptable term if not completely precise but I agree with you it describes a number of different distinct culture groups…very much like calling someone British today ( I keep telling my Irish friends they are actually British as they live in the British isles, pisses them off something rotten, but it’s funny).… Read more »

Dern
Dern
18 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Whatever floats your boat in that case, I don’t recall ever seeing Romano-Celtic used in anyway other than to describe site type instead of culture (ie how you might describe a Hellenic temple as “Corinthian” even though it was built in Athens, and had nothing to do with the Corinthians, but simply due to it’s architectural style). I’ve generally never really been a fan of describing post Roman Britain as Celtic as there are some pretty hefty differences between them and the La Tene and Hasltatt cultures, but I don’t really buy into Cunliffes Atlanticism either, so I guess I… Read more »

Ron
Ron
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Dern, good post but to further your basics Austria or Ostfrankenreich shortened to Osterreich (Ost = East, Reich = Empire) was the eastern lands of Bavaria which was used as a buffer zone against Ottoman/Hun expansion. The area was also known as the Ostland or Osterland, it is from Ostland comes the Latin Austria. The Ostland was used how Monmouthshire was used by the Normans against the Welsh. As for Sweden/Finland joining NATO all I can say is welcome to the club. Small well equipped forces that would fit into NATO with ease. Turkey could find itself a bit isolated… Read more »

Dern
Dern
18 days ago
Reply to  Ron

Interesting, HRE migration era and early medieval politics are irritatingly byzantine and I’ve never really had the patience for them. XD

George Parker
George Parker
17 days ago
Reply to  Dern

I echo Danielle with her applause for the comment exchange. Thanks to both of you.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Great post, enjoyed that. I like my Roman history but some of that was another level.

Dern
Dern
19 days ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Indeed. Considering how un-militarised Austria is, they’re still quite proud that the siege of Vienna was where the Ottomans where stopped and turned back.

George Parker
George Parker
17 days ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Well said. ISIS educated the world in the ways of devout fundamentalist Islam. The videos of barbaric acts were widely circulated by them for that very reason. Emulating the actions of their prophet, to attract financial support and jihadi volunteers from all over the world. With great success.

Klonkie
Klonkie
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

I wonder if there maybe a change in mood within Austria? If they might follow Finland and Sweden to apply to join NATO? Interesting times.

Ianbuk
Ianbuk
18 days ago
Reply to  Klonkie

They can’t. The 1955 Austrian State Treaty prohibits Austria from being anything other than a neutral state. No foreign military bases are allowed. Finland and Sweden’s neutrality is one of tradition than of treaty. That means it’s for those two states to rescind their neutrality, not Austria.

Dern
Dern
18 days ago
Reply to  Klonkie

I don’t think so, not for a while, they’re like Ireland, not under threat and still carrying a weight of History on their shoulders.

Klonkie
Klonkie
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Thanks D

Ianbuk
Ianbuk
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Greece are Turkey’s greatest opponents to joining the EU, then Hungary. The admitting of a major Islamic state into Europe has frightened half of the EU’s states.

Dern
Dern
18 days ago
Reply to  Ianbuk

Oh my god, what is it with people on this site and not being able to read?

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/finland-and-sweden-submit-applications-to-join-nato/#comment-643623

Is Greece in NATO? Is Hungary in NATO? Yes? Congratulations, you managed to completely miss the point I was making, now go sit down and have a bikkie.

Last edited 18 days ago by Dern
John Clark
John Clark
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Personally Dern, I find your insights into the Romans very interesting, I do find the Roman decline and the slide into the dark ages a facinating period of our great country.

I happen to note however you totally neglect the single biggest Roman influence and blight that echoes down the centuries and we still suffer through to this very day …. Men wearing sandles and who the hell added white socks to the horror show, the Vikings would be my guess….

Dern
Dern
18 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Thanks! My degree was in Archaeology so hopefully I can at least sound like I know what I’m talking about XD (also explains my distrust of textual sources).

However, I hate to break it to you:

“-Ram tibi paria udonum t. ab Sattua solearum duo et subligariorum duo.”
Vindolanda Tablet 346

Or in English
“I have send you two Sandals from Sattua and two pairs of socks, and two sets of unerpants”

So, socks and sandals, are confirmed to have been in the British Isles during Roman times.

John Clark
John Clark
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

🤣🤣🤣 and I was hoping to ease us back into discussing the Nordics!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Love it.

I too study the Romans but mostly the classical era, and I lose interest after Septimus Severus. Too many emperors!

I know our Airborne is also interested in Roman history so will have enjoyed reading all that.

What is your view on the IX Hispania? Lost up north in Britannia or in the east as some suggest?

Dern
Dern
18 days ago

Can I go with “I don’t know”? XD Disappointing I know, but I don’t really look into the Imperial Roman army in that much detail. From what I understand there is inscriptional evidence in Germania that points to IX Hispania being there, and combined with (again as far as I know) a lack of contemporary textual evidence for the destruction of a Legion in Britain, I’d go with further east at a later date. But when and where, I wouldn’t want to guess. My particular area of interest for Rome, I think I mentioned is 753-150BCE, after that new information… Read more »

Crabfat
Crabfat
17 days ago

Well, I’ll go to the foot of our stairs! The breadth of knowledge on this platform is incredible. Posters (not me) cover the very intricacies of naval construction, to aircraft, weapons, et al. And now detailed Roman history – I love it! I’ve never studied Roman history at all but at present I’m well hooked on the novels of Simon Scarrow and his two heroes, Roman centurions Cato and Macro, fighting in Britain, under General Plautius. Novels, as I said, but many’s the time I’ve digressed across the internet, seeking out more information about various historical Roman generals and rulers.… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
17 days ago
Reply to  Crabfat

For Britain, Agricola I find most interesting.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
18 days ago
Reply to  Ianbuk

More than half Ianbuk; German public opinion counts for much and they have swung away from embracing Islam now they have it in quantity.

James
James
17 days ago
Reply to  Ianbuk

The EU is the only continental organizations that has no diversity it’s just a white Christian club despite European ethnic and religious diversity . Look at the Arab League African Union South American etc all diverse . There is always fear of the other in Europe and we know where that fear led to in the 1930s . It was the Muslims in recent history and we saw Iraq and Libya and now it’s Russia then it’s China , Africa thereafter or Aliens 👽? There always must be fear . Thats how the elite profit in reality which no longer… Read more »

Last edited 17 days ago by James
dan
dan
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Edrogan is the closest thing to a dictator among NATO state leaders.

James
James
17 days ago
Reply to  dan

Then Boris is a tyrant! With all the scandals and covid disaster he caused he still dancing and singing being above the law . The funny part is both are elected democratically. Hitler was elected too , democracy gives not always what you like

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
19 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Yeah ironic that isn’t it. Cameron, Blair et al were all for it the people rather less so as indeed were France and Germany and one of the reasons many Brits wanted out. I remember it being said if we don’t let them in they might go all Islamic Fundamentalist, as if people likely to go that way so easily are the sort of society we would want to give freedom to roam amongst us so freely. To think our political leaders if anything, are actually going downhill from that low point of Intellectual debate is hardly encouraging.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
19 days ago
Reply to  Tomartyr

It’s long gone.

Rob N
Rob N
19 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

I think Turkey is looking for a better offer then Russia has no doubt given them… perhaps they will do a deal with the US for some F35Bs for their ships.

It is clear thar Russia cannot mount a real military threat to new NATO joiners at the moment so all it has left is political coercion and economic inducements…

I think Turkey will do a deal with NATO.

DanielMorgan
DanielMorgan
19 days ago
Reply to  Rob N

There is no way in hell the US Congress agrees to the sale of F-35s to Turkey. The US will hold Turkey’s request to purchase 40 F-16 Block 70s and 80 modernization kits for its existing F-16s hostage to any refusal. Not to mention existing sanctions against Turkey. NATO doesn’t have leverage, but the US does.

Rob N
Rob N
19 days ago
Reply to  DanielMorgan

And Russia will suspend S300 support…

Sean
Sean
18 days ago
Reply to  Rob N

A month ago Erdogan wasn’t raising any objections about Sweden and Finland joining NATO, so it’s obviously a negotiating tactic to get something.

James
James
18 days ago
Reply to  Sean

Of course it is, Erdogan is just out for personal gain. Just like hes been using refugees to bribe the EU for a decade, the man is awful and should not be dealt with.

Mark
Mark
19 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Yep they have already laid out a list of things they want from the two nations, and most of it aren’t going to happen.

dan
dan
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Turkey turns down NATO requests more than any other member. They are more trouble than they are worth to NATO. They still say that Greece shouldn’t be a member of NATO even though Greece has done more over the years for NATO than Turkey.

Geoff Roach
Geoff Roach
19 days ago

Another Putin success story.

David Lloyd
David Lloyd
19 days ago

According to the Panama Papers, Erdogan has at least twelve fat offshore accounts in the Cayman Isands, BVI etc.

Doubtless, a decent contribution to his retirement fund (all dictators have them) would have no effect on his objections to Finland and Sweden joining NATO whatsoever. Watch this space

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
19 days ago

Good news.

Two sound, stable, civilised and democratic allies.

Oh they also have decent militaries.

Andrew D
Andrew D
19 days ago

Nothing against the Finns or the Swedish but not sure if the timing is right.Even though the big bad bear is banging it’s chest .

Andy P
Andy P
19 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Its the “big bad bear” that has precipitated this. I’m sure Putin can put a spin on it that the evil West has deceived them etc but even the most nationalistic of Russians must be wondering why ‘everyone’ seems to be against them. Yet another scenario that reminds of the the Mitchell and Webb sketch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

John Clark
John Clark
19 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Why the hesitation Andrew? I can’t see any negatives, they are both absolutely first rate Nordic countries with advanced and highly capable militaries.

Wonderful additions to the NATO family.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
19 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

The timing though enforced is exactly right. If Putin had attacked Sweden and their media has often talked about taking Gotland it would have been an inevitable war with NATO ( for reasons I won’t re-repeat) so best that Putin now can’t ignore that line in the sand through ignorance of that particular reality.

Andrew D
Andrew D
18 days ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Andy ,John,Spyinthesky.I agree with your posts Guys there have good military and equipment and well train people .Guess it’s been a little unsure on my part thinking which way it will swing 🤔

James
James
17 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

I agree , this will increase hostilities in Europe which only benefits China .

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
19 days ago

Great news.

I notice Putin has softened his rhetoric slightly.

Dern
Dern
19 days ago

Run out of toys to throw out of the pram?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
19 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Ha, possibly. But it’s better than the threats.

Klonkie
Klonkie
18 days ago

perhaps the penny has finally dropped in his weathered excuse for a soul?

Sean
Sean
18 days ago
Reply to  Dern

Probably all towed away by Ukrainian farmers on tractors 😆

Rob N
Rob N
2 days ago
Reply to  Dern

I think he has run out of military to throw at other peoples countries….

Mark
Mark
19 days ago

Massively compared to his “reason” for invading Ukraine, but then that was always a BS reason anyway. Maybe someone pointed out to him what combat power the two nations had even without external support.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
19 days ago

Seems to be doing a Stalin/Hitler and taking strategic micro managing military decisions at the front now. Mind you you can see the urge to think you can’t do worse considering the example that’s been set for him. He will no doubt be inventing tank formations soon to come to his aid with no one brave enough to tell him they only exist in his head.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
19 days ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

“Where is Wenck” he’ll do well to do worse than old Adolf.

Klonkie
Klonkie
18 days ago

Hi DM I wonder if he is actually ill? I saw a piece on BBC that there are reports of his health taking a turn for the worse (good news). I do wonder if my prediction from March is crystalizing: As casualties mounts, the Russian mood will turn. Putin can lie and control the media, but bodies coming home in bags and their parents voicing discord within their communities is a powerful influencer. Part of the inner Russian civil and military leadership may deem it’s time for Putin “to go”. Past behaviour is a good indicator of future behaviour –… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
18 days ago
Reply to  Klonkie

I have read, like we all have, lots of stories ranging from blood cancer to parkinson’s. His arm shakes and he held onto that table.

Interestingly, Hitler was also shaking from 43 on with all the crap Morell was pumping into him.

AlexS
AlexS
18 days ago
Reply to  Klonkie

I have no doubt that he is ill. About what i don’t know. And i think there is high probability that seeing the end of is life is what made him being hasty and order this clumsy attack.

Last edited 18 days ago by AlexS
Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
19 days ago

Sends a powerful message to the Russians.

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago

Let’s hope turkey does not put a wrecking ball through the plan. Not sure what would happen to NATO if that occurs.

Farouk
Farouk
19 days ago

Turkey is simply playing hardball with NATO (but more specifically the Biden administration) in which to overturn a number of rulings placed on Ankara after its invasion of Syria , its purchase of the S400 and of course its brinkmanship against European countries with the main one the resumption of arms sales, for example getting kicked off the F35 hurt Turkey, but worse its plan to upgrade its F16 fleet was kicked into touch. It didnt help when Greece upgraded its F16 fleet to the Viper standard or worse, when it purchased 16 Rafale fighter jets last year (with an addittional 6… Read more »

FTDSKhRXEAYcWOM.jpg
Last edited 19 days ago by Farouk
Ianbuk
Ianbuk
18 days ago
Reply to  Farouk

Well they are not going to get the things on that list, are they? The demands are almost impossible for NATO nations to meet. There’s no way the US will allow any F35’s to be delivered to a nation where it will be exposed to testing by Russian technicians operating the S400 system.

Erdogan may as well demanded half the Greek islands, the US won’t let them get the F35’s.

Jacko
Jacko
18 days ago

Let’s not forget Turkey is involved in a bit of land grabbing themselves in northern Iraq against the Kurds

John Clark
John Clark
18 days ago
Reply to  Jacko

That’s not correct Jako, the Turks simply removed ISIS from those areas and is simply ‘staying’ to help protect them for the foreseeable future!

AlexS
AlexS
18 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Haha, the ISIS that had a lot of deals with Turkey

David_s
David_s
18 days ago

There are some interesting aspects to this matter with regards to Turkey – the last engagement with another state that the Turkish military had was shooting down Russian aircraft* – and the Russians did not even give a nanosecond of thought to a response, because they knew even the conventional NATO arms stationed at Incirlik would have erased the entire Russian military presence in Syria in a heartbeat. How we get from that to them buying S400 is just incredible. But I would also give the Turkish argument re Sweden some credence – it was quite well documented that Sweden… Read more »

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
18 days ago

Team JohninMK assured us the Finns didn’t want to join N.A.T.O. Erdogan’s Turkey isn’t and doesn’t wish to be a western society; it is barely in Europe geographically. The Baltic and Mediterranean Seas are much more crucial to N.A.T.O. than the Black Sea in any case; Putin has been fighting a long war in Syria entirely to hang on to his Tartus naval base to ensure he has a presence outside the easily controlled Black Sea exits now Ukraine, Bulgaria and Romania are allied to the west. It is worth recalling well before Putin’s Ukrainian folly, Erdogan chose his side,… Read more »

Sean
Sean
18 days ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

He’ll try to be.

Quite frankly, if Turkey was trying to join NATO now it would fail to meet the criteria for membership. Erdogan seems to be modelling his style of government on Putin’s.

James
James
17 days ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

Ever asking yourself why Turkey got the S400 to start of with? This is what happens when uneducated dive into things they don’t know about ! Turkey could not get patriot missiles from the US and even Trump admitted that was a mistake Obama made! Turkey was forced to buy the S400 and Sweden block is Turkey wanting some pay pack . Most of NATO apart of Spain did withdraw their patriots from Turkey that faced missiles from Syria daily

Mark
Mark
17 days ago
Reply to  James

They didn’t want to just buy the Patriots, which the US was willing to sell, they wanted the full industrial offset and design which the US wasn’t willing to give them.

dan
dan
18 days ago

Will be nice to have 2 countries in NATO that take their own defense seriously. Unlike some long time NATO states….

David Barry
David Barry
18 days ago

Finland will secure the Baltics with Sweden providing depth.

Baltic Air Policing mission will be less strenuous and more resilient.

I expect Rail Baltica will get the EU funded tunnel extension to Finland, logistics could be transformed and Kaliningrad totally isolated to air traffic, will SLOCs be cut off?

Counter to the good new is the melting polar ice – China will take up the slack; and they pose the major threat to NATO.

Q. Will Russia implode under this failed invasion and NATO expansion?

Simon
Simon
18 days ago

Loved the Roman Britain discussion. Just thinking we maybe at peak NATO, Russia being hopefully in retreat but dangerously feeling cornered.

Sean
Sean
18 days ago

says it all…

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John
John
17 days ago

Saab Bofors is far more valuable than any Turkish crap. Yes I include the TB2 into that considering the full rig relies on multiple western components..

James
James
16 days ago
Reply to  John

Most UK military gear has foreign components too. The carrier’s have french components the F35 mostly American the UK barely makes anything 100 percent which puts at at risk if Biden sanctions the UK over Northern Ireland

James
James
16 days ago
Reply to  John

Why don’t Sweden send to Ukraine weapons that destroy the Russians by the thousands then? Even the UK other some anti tank missiles sent nothing to the battlefield that shows British military prowess! Turkey TB2 the entire planet is talking about and it’s the world best selling drone currently , when the the UK and Sweden last have a best seller weapon ? I leave you to answer that . Jealousy is a diseases itself that blinds people, and that’s what you and some others on here have . I like none biased facts which you can’t stand , instead… Read more »

Darren hall
Darren hall
17 days ago

Before the war, Russia was demanding that Ukraine be more like Finland. Neutral, de-Nazified, with a government that looked eastward as well as west. The Kola Peninsula contains the cornerstones of Russian activities in the Western Artic as well as major air and sea assets for the defence of the motherland. For the past few years Russia has been modernising its Airbases and port facilities there. Most of its TU-22, 95 and 160’s are based in this region. As well as the headquarters of the northern fleet and its collection of 8 SSBNs, 5 SSGNs and 20+ other subs, not… Read more »