First British P-8A Poseidon will be ‘ready to fly with a UK crew’ on day one of arriving in the UK

I’d argue it was the pre-design phase that was where the problems were, it would have been much cheaper just to build a new fuselage for the spanking new wings.

That’s right Levi. Them and varied MoD and RAF units involved in T&E.

Fascinating airfield with good views off that little road off the 303.

Boeing are looking to invest in the site, or so it is rumoured, I believe it has more to do with Apache than P8 with the creation of a major European maintenance hub.

Slaine is talking about the amount borrowed not the deficit.

The government since 2010 has borrowed more and grown the national debt more than any government in 70 years.

Although you are right the deficit has been reduced.

Interesting that while I not once mentioned Labour, or laid any blame as to who caused what before 2010, and was trying to provide context on why certain decisions were made our Leftie friend had to make it a political row.

And then make deliberately misleading statements about borrowing. Quite how the Cobynomic experts seem to think that we could have completely removed a £100+ Bn a year deficit in 2010 / 11 to zero and thereby not have borrowed any more money beats me. Oh and of course then also pumped £ Bns into the UK economy … by borrowing … D’UH!

If people want to see what real austerity is go to Greece or western Africa or Venezuela …..

*friends*

Government borrowing 2010….£147 billion….2017….£48 billion.

It’s not a “row” Chris, just open and friendly debate.

“Quite how the Cobynomic experts seem to think that we could have completely removed a £100+ Bn a year deficit in 2010 / 11 to zero and thereby not have borrowed any more money beats me.”

Like I said in first post, there is strong argument that a stimulus policy after we came out of the recession instead of austerity could of started rapid GDP growth therefore reducing the deficit faster, which would of led to less borrowing overall.

Either way we are nearly in a budget surplus finally then we can start reducing the debt, pretty sure the interest payment on our national debt is more than our defence budget.

Good thing you two are not responsible for Anglo-US relations.

Good grief! Talk about sounding like a spoiled teenager! You even write like one. Yes parasite. The UK was in stalemate with Germany in WW1 until the US entered the war. It would have been defeated if not for US intervention. I know that sticks in your British craw but it’s a fact. That intervention was one of the worst mistakes in US history engineered by the totally incompetent Woodrow Wilson. The only strategy the UK had after declaring war on the Third Reich was to hope and pray that the US would enter the war to save the UK”s skin. The only hope you had to stop Soviet domination of the continent of Europe was the US. So any lectures about “Pax Britannica” and how it was done properly are just laughable and about what one would expect from a teenager who hasn’t read his history.
The purpose of the US defense budget is to protect the United States not to use “spare” assets to protect deadbeat parasites like the UK who refuses to expend sufficient resources to defend itself.
Oh by the way, I’m not your “mate.”

(Chris H) PKCasimir – There is one thing that has totally amazed me in my long life (71 this year) and that is an American’s ability to completely re-write history relying on Hollywood as the reference. The added amazement is how the ‘We Saved Your Arses’ comment is invariably thrown in after the slightest criticism of US policy or action.

The fact remains that the USA entered WWI just as the Fat Lady was rehearsing ‘God Save The King’ and given it arrived more than 3 years after the start of a 4 year war there is the stench of hypocrisy in your attitude. For the ‘allies’ to win they had to rely on the British and French not being defeated by the Bosch for over 3 years.

And then we come to WWII. Again given we were never invaded and had kept our freedom while every other European country had surrendered your claim is fatuous at best. By the time we saw US troops 3 years after our war started we had defeated the German Navy at sea, had technology advantages over them, were delivering 1,000 bomber raids anywhere in Germany and had started the long push back in North Africa. Your first contribution was to give Rommel his last military victory at Kesserine Pass and elsewhere. Your arses were saved by British armour and infantry in Africa, the same British, Canadian and Polish armour that gave you an easy run round in France and then sorted your UpFuck again in the Ardennes. The best you could produce was Patton?

Remind me again which country it was that paid the USA $ Bns in cash for materiel to help it fight alone with its Commonwealth friends? Remind me which country it was had to repay a huge loan after Lend / lease over 50 years? Remind me which country it was that gave, repeat gave, you jet engines, nuclear fission, plastic explosive, Magnetron radar, advanced bomber positioning, advanced sonar and self sealing fuel tanks in 1941 / 42? Before you were dragged kicking and screaming into the shitty part of a war – fighting it.

The USA sat back for years and made money out of our survival. Companies like Packard and North American survived because of the UK. Hell we gave the USA more GDP growth in 2 years than all of Roosevelt’s ‘New Deal’. Economically we dragged your country out of the fallout of The Depression. The USA then showed its friendship for its ally by converting Lend / Lease overnight into a loan while ships were still at sea the terms of which we never had any choice in agreeing. It then used the ‘convertibility’ rules of that loan in 1947 to mount the largest currency raid, devaluation of the £ thus doubling our $ debt.

No Sir you Americans did not save our arses. You gave us nothing and took all we had. You helped us liberate Europe and then only because you had to. That is all.

For clarity I quite like America as a country, have worked there for a few years and have a few ‘Yanks’ as friends from those times. Its a fabulously beautiful country but one is left with the impression it could have been so much better. Your cities are appalling … a bit like your attitude Sir

Only one set of countries fought in every theatre in all parts of the globe for the whole of the 6 years of WWII:

The UK and its Commonwealth – For example Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India etc

Not Germany

Not Japan

Not China

Not Russia

And certainly NOT the USA.

Historical fact not Hollywood Yank bullcrap. If you aren’t there fighting the fight for all the fight you cannot claim real victory. You are an opportunist arriving late to collect the spoils of war….

Couldn’t of put it any better myself Chris.

Well done on handing this idiot his arse.

There is usually two types of American that comment on here, the delusional kind that think they singlehandedly saved the world in two world wars and have been spreading peace and democracy keeping the world safe since WW2, and the respectful kind who comment with grace and understand and acknowledge their allies and their own strengths and weaknesses.

This plant pot is certainly the former.

You mean in WW1 when the Ludendorff Spring offensives broke through the British and French lines? The only thing that prevented a Dunkirk in 1918 was the arrival of the US Army and Marine Corps at Seicheprey, Chemin des Dames, and Belleau Wood. Had it not been the continued arrival of American men and material the Hundred Days Offensive would not have been possible. As the allies would not have been able to replenish themselves in time to take advantage of the weakened German Army and Austria-Hungarian Armies.
Over 40% of all Entente military expenditure in WW1 was spent on weapons and supplies produced in the US. One wonders what the result would have been had the people of America backed by the USN which by the time it entered the War was the same size as the Kaiserliche Marine and embarking on a build program to surpass the Royal Navy. Had insisted on an exemption to the Blockade. Then traded equally with Germany during the War.
Really in WW2 where you managed to lose all of the Continent in less than a year. Using Kasserine as an example of Britain “saving” the US Army? US II Corps position was saved by the arrival of the 1st ID and 1st AD arriving and along with 9th ID coordinating massed artillery bombardments of the German advance. While the US actually punished LT. Gen. Fredendall the man who was equally if not more responsible for the battle was British LT. Gen. General Anderson. Who failed to keep his units concentrated and micromanaged them continuously throughout the battle and was NOT removed from command.
The Ardennes? You mean where Montgomery and the British Government pressured Eisenhower and Marshal to redirect supplies to their hair brained schemes instead of Patton’s Army which was actually advancing? Resulting in the US advance having to stop due to lack of fuel and spare parts and allowing a German build up on the lines.
Montgomery who had just screwed the pooch in Market Garden. Market Garden where the BRITISH airborne and the BRITISH 30 Corps were the only units that failed in their objectives. Hell the Polish Airborne even made it to their objectives.
Converted Lend-Lease? This maybe a little hard to explain but you borrow money from a Lender. Who expects to be paid back with interest not supposed and oft times nonexistent gratitude.
America had to go Europe? No our war was in the Pacific. We could very easily have left you to pick between Comrade Stalin and Herr Hitler as your new dictator. America had recovered its pre Depression economy and employment levels by 1934-35. Through a combination of baking reform (Glass-Steagall) and massive public works (TVA,CCC, Hoover Dam) and stimulus spending (Federal Crop Insurance, Rural Water and Electrification Act). The technology you mention all of those examples were in some form already nearing completed development/in advanced development or ALREADY about to be deployed by the US Military. Before the Tizard mission. The Manhattan project actually ISOLATED rather than fully used British scientists as they were considered unreliable and susceptible to communist infiltration.
Yes America could have been better. By shoving the ungrateful blood sucking Brits and Euros out of our politics, out of our policy, and our Hemisphere. The Monroe Doctrine and alliance with Latin and South America were clearly better policies. I’ve been to London, Paris, Rome and Berlin the thing I most remember is filth, cats, traffic and most of all apathy. So concern yourself with your own country considering it is the one which will lock people up for Facebook and YouTube posts, and put sick children down like a dog, because you are a disarmed subject not a free citizen.

And another fine example.

No but we should put defence spending back up to reasonable amount. The USA at least spends a decent % of gdp, like we used too.

(Chris H) – Elliott I can always rely on you to eloquently prove my points about the arrogance and ignorance of some, repeat some, Americans two of whom we have had in this Thread. Sadly those ‘some’ Americans tend to be the loudest and most ignorant.

I won’t take your various bits of ignorance apart, like the laughable comment about not needing Tizzard technology like jet engines and Magnetron radar (which you did NOT have) as its too easy.

Like your nonsense about Monty causing supplies shortages? Eisenhower preferred a broad-front strategy. He gave some priority to Montgomery’s northern forces. This had the short-term goal of opening the urgently needed port of Antwerp and the long-term goal of capturing the Ruhr area. In October, the First Canadian Army fought the Battle of the Scheldt, opening the port of Antwerp to shipping. As a result, by the end of October this had eased the supplies situation. Oops forgot that bit did we?

You insult Montgomery and others and sanctify muppets like Patton. Pathetic! I would ask why, given Eisenhower was American, did he surround himself at the top command table with more Brits than Yanks? Why was the whole Overlord operation commanded by Brits and not one Yank? And here is a thought – we landed more men on more beaches than you did. At least we screwed our Mulberry Harbour together as designed unlike you idiots who always ‘know better’ except 9 / 10 you don’t and yours fell apart at the first puff of wind. Just as well because we then supplied every allied unit through our Harbour. You’re Welcome!. Why did he never put Bradley or Patton as overall land Commander? Because they were no good and Monty for all his being a twat to work with was the best and most successful battle commander in WWII. And what happened when Ike did give in to Bradley’s moaning and was given independent command of all US forces in September ’44? Oh look come December the Germans ran through the US 1st Army lines while they weren’t paying attention. Who did Ike then turn to to save the day? Yes Montgomery who was then given back full command of all forces and then re-organised the order of battle and saved the day. Along with British Armour that had to about turn and pop along to save Yank arses. Like they did in Africa.

Who says so? The German commander of the 5th Panzer Army, Hasso von Manteuffel said of Montgomery’s leadership:

“The operations of the American 1st Army had developed into a series of individual holding actions. Montgomery’s contribution to restoring the situation was that he turned a series of isolated actions into a coherent battle fought according to a clear and definite plan. It was his refusal to engage in premature and piecemeal counter-attacks which enabled the Americans to gather their reserves and frustrate the German attempts to extend their breakthrough”

And how did the US Army see just one of these battles? The official U.S. Army history states:
“At least seven thousand were lost here and the figure probably is closer to eight or nine thousand. The amount lost in arms and equipment, of course, was very substantial. The Schnee Eifel battle, therefore, represents the most serious reverse suffered by American arms during the operations of 1944–45 in the European theater.”

So Monty was to blame for this was he?

But I will make something very clear as I didn’t mention it before:
The war against Japan was not fought solely in ‘the Pacific’. You Yanks give it that name because you didn’t fight too much in the jungles did you? Well we did. We had over a million men fighting those Japs in the longest jungle war of WWII. We handed out their biggest defeats at Kohima and elsewhere after which they never won another battle. In doing so we kept over 2 million Japs off the beaches your very brave young Marines were trying to retake. I wonder how many Yank Marine ‘arses’ we saved by keeping Japs busy in jungles? Google ‘The Chindits’ and learn what fighting a jungle war was really all about. And here is another fact you will not have been shown on Fox News – We had more men fighting the Japs in WWII than the USA ever had in Europe at any one time fighting the Germans. A fight you joined when we were both winning battles and also supplying the Russians for free via Arctic convoys. You say the USA should have left us to it in Europe? Interesting idea seeing as Hitler had declared war on the USA. You’d sort of ‘ignore’ that maybe? Well in hindsight I wish you had. We would have moved a million men and thousands of aircraft and tanks back to Europe and Australia from fighting the Japs. Given we were supplying the Russians we would have ended up where we all ended up in 1945 the only difference being the overall strategic decisions would have been made by a UK Commander not a US one – Ike. And we wouldn’t have had all the backstabbing and bullcrap from Patton, Bradley and Marshall.

Of course the USA sat back wanting the Germans to overrun the UK so they could do a deal with the Nazis. Its why Churchill kicked out Jack Kennedy’s father for peddling defeatist crap about us while he was the US Ambassador. After all many Yank companies were supplying them anyway ….Some friends ….

Once again a Brit who loves to take credit for the efforts of Australian, Indian and New Zealand troops. Hell even taking credit for Chinese efforts. Despite the fact the British General alongside his opposite number in the RN managed to lose Singapore and 2 BBs one modern with barely a whimper. Worsening a situation made terrible by Britain moving the Australian troops to Africa.
Jungle fighting? Apparently you have forgotten General McArthur, General Stilwell later General Wedemeyer’s campaigns.
General Eisenhower did not want so many British officers around him. They were by his own admission a political necessity. Because of Roosevelt wanting to play politics cost the US Army repeatedly.
Why was Overlord commanded by Brits? One yet another exaggeration. Two Brits had many posts due to it being the English Channel NOT the Chesapeake Bay being invaded. Three most American supplies did not come from ANY mulberry and were simply landed on the beach as in the Pacific. Then continued on to a real port at Cherbourg. Mulberries were in the end a giant waste of time and expense. As even at Utah Beach which never had one the US Army landed 3 divisions on just one day alone.
The theater is called the Pacific in the US because that was and still is the name of the operations area from before and after the War. A hint US Army Europe is under NATO (North Atlantic). Not British Armor saving the day at the Bulge? Funniest thing I’ve heard since Carson left the tonight show. The Bulge was won by Patton and the US 3rd Army in addition to the regrouped US First Army.
Bastogne was held by the 101st Airborne not a British unit. It was relieved by a American armor unit not a British one.
Britain able to make strategic decisions with Stalin ready to overrun all of Western Europe? With Britain nearly a decade away from it’s own Nuclear weapon and already by the end of 1944 in a manpower shortage?
Delivering supplies to the Soviets? Yeah in American built and crewed freighters by 1942. That would include the time First Sea Lord “brain tumor” Pound saw fit to get 24 of them lost in one run during PQ17.
Winning battles? Yeah in Africa. How did the Dieppe Raid go? There was no realistic plan by Britain to return to the Continent until American entry to the War.
Stop the flights of fancy attempting to take credit for American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and Soviet the list goes on efforts. All of this by the way done with not just a lot of American manufacturing but truly epic amounts of money loaned out at criminally low rates.

(Chris H) Elliott – As usual you distort what was said to score some inane point. I never ever decried, nor would I, what the members of our Commonwealth did you lying moron. Here are my exact words from 12.23 yesterday. Your attention span is even worse than the average Yank:
“Only one set of countries fought in every theatre in all parts of the globe for the whole of the 6 years of WWII:
The UK and its Commonwealth – For example Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India etc”

My last word in this has to be about your unbelievably stupid and ignorant comment about Mulberry Harbours as it exemplifies how misleading you and your Hollywood history are in everything else. What was it you said?
“Mulberries were in the end a giant waste of time and expense.”

The only waste was caused because you Yanks couldn’t bear to follow British instructions and build their ‘Mulberry A’ as designed and it fell apart in the first heavy weather. You idiots wasted the work and resources of thousands of British construction and shipbuilding workers ‘just to be first’. Outf**kingstanding! You gob off about ‘direct beach landing like the Pacific’ when it was the remains of that Mulberry that gave that beach the shelter to do those landings. No Mr American Patriot the heavy lifting was done by the British ‘Mulberry B’ that continued to deliver supplies all through the gale and delivered 2.5 Mn troops, 0.5 Mn guns, tanks and vehicles and 4 Mn tons of supplies from June to November 1944 when Antwerp was relieved and Allied forces were in Holland. Yes the American built Mulberry A was indeed “a giant waste of time and expense”

And the source for my facts? You won’t enjoy this film Yank:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwUGoqLQEV0

For those singing Rule Britannia, forget it. The US entry into WW1 resulted in victory.

WW2 well there was Libya, Greece, Crete, Tobruk, Alamein, Singapore, the NEI and the RAAF Squadrons in the UK during the Battle of Britain. In the end it didn’t matter, because it was the US who saved Australia from the Japanese. Australians will never forget this fact.

Golly gee a YouTube video! I bow to it’s authority. NOT. I’m certain I will take their analysis over that of the US Army and Naval War colleges. The historical records of the US Army and USN hold the presses need to be changed due to YouTube. Oh wait the records show most American supplies came over the beach and the Mulberry Harbours provided less than half the total amount of supplies than came over the beach for the ENTIRE operation.

Really you think calling me an American Patriot is an insult? Only a Marxist would find that an insult.

(Chris H) elliott – I take it you didn’t actually watch it then? Maybe because it was a detailed documentary made years before YouTube existed with evidence from the people who designed and built it and then operated it. Because something is on YouTube does not lessen its value. But of course you are in total denial and so resort to cheap sarcasm and a blinkered view where you won’t even see any other evidence.

Well jog on Yank I think you have proved adequately the unbelievable arrogance and ignorance of some, repeat some. Americans. Same shit different day from you ..