F-16 jets now operating in skies over Ukraine

The RAF had three ‘Eagle Squadrons’ of American pilots flying combat missions in 1940 before the US entered the Second World War. They were eventually transferred ‘back’ to the US 8th Army Air Force (I think in 41/42)… It’s not just the bad guys that do it.

The difference is the Americans were volunteers,the soviet pilots were serving members of the Russian airforce sent by their govt.

and of course the Flying Tigers in China.

Sorry, did not read your post before commenting. Duh. 🙄

None of the Eagle Squadron pilots were USAAF or USN personnel, all joined the RAF direct, a number refused to transfer to the USAAF and stayed with the RAF. we should also mention the Flying Tigers.

Hi Ian, fair points. There is a decent overview in ‘The Eagle Squadrons’ by Vern… someone.
I’m sketchy on numbers, it’s been a few years since I’ve read it, but many were US Army Air Corp (The USAAF wasn’t formed until ’41) either active or reserve, they were allowed to rescind their commission if they could demonstrate they were accepted to join the RCAF. The RCAF was the entry route for the majority of US personnel, vice the RAF direct. It got significant enough that the USAAC had to start vetting applications to the RCAF as they were concerned about loosing too many skilled pilots. The USA also streamlined visa applications for them to get into Canada and none lost their citizenship as a result of joining foreign Armed Forces (unless they chose to give it up). It feels, like much of the lend-lease stuff, it was State sponsored/coordinated, even if it wasn’t as blatant as whatever the Reds have been up to.

It was even more involved than that whole Russian units were deployed into Vietnam…infact one of the anti air batteries was so famous one of the officers received the order of Lenin and was formally recognised as an anti air missile ace….it was a well recognised and medals were awarded for US and soviet forces actively killing each other during the Cold War….it was never truely cold…I believe…200 U.S. airmen were shot down by the Soviets…they never gave 126 are considered missing and 32 died….

Interesting piece of intel Jonathan -I had no idea.

Yes this is a good quote that gives you the scale of how much US soviet confront actually went on..

“From 1965 through all of 1966 nearly all of the 48 U.S. jet aircraft shot down by SAMs over North Vietnam were downed by Soviet missile men. During the course of the air defense of North Vietnam, one Russian SAM operator, Lieutenant Vadim Petrovich Shcherbakov, was credited with destroying 11 U.S. aircraft from 20 engagements”

infact its well documented that the entire north Vietnamese air defences in 1965 to 1666 were soviet anti air missile regiments moved to north Vietnam enmass.

that’s fascinating Jonathan- thanks for posting.

In the 1988 Angolan Bush war, operation Packer and Hooper most pilots flying the Angolan migs were either Russian or Cuban. Including 2 female Russian pilots. I recall only two local Angolan pilots flew according to wire taps monitoring flight channels. Our special forces could see Minogue airfield from the clandestine hide out and gave us heads up when and what took off and then the vectors.

Same here, except it was having the reaction speed of a three toed sloth that did it for me.

Ha ha ha. Special needs, good one.
It’s a moot point if the sleeper cells in Poland have ever been activated. Which leaves dissident/radical Ukrainian militia members, who see NATO involvement as their only hope for the future.

To be fair, the Russian’s might not have SF teams, but they do still cutlivate links to organised crime and semi-legitimate pro-russian organisations that could be mobiliesed for that kind of thing.

Sleeper cells were SOP during the Cold War. Spark up a conversation with the intelligence slime on the subject and they would drone on about it for hours! The STASI were masters of the art of infiltrating Western institutions. To either steer their activities or simply take them over. We know one KGB Colonel who served with STASI. and excelled in that very thing. Intelligence gathering, recruitment of assets and manipulation. I’d be more surprised if there were not cells ready to be mobilised for that kind of thing. There were many in the Ukrainian army prior to the 2014 annexation.

We’re not talking about Sleeper cells so much here (and even then Sleeper Cells rarely commited any sort of direct action of the kind that would be required to damage an air base). What the Russian’s are very much known for is the creation of gangs, motorcycle clubs, organised crime syndicates, and the like of varying degrees of legitimacy that have ties or are directly run by the Kremlin.

An example that’s relatively easy to look up are the Night Wolves. If Russia where to want to launch plausibly deniable direct action on a NATO airbase, that’s the kind of thing they’d use.

Where are you getting your information from, The Times??? Ukraine are done, have been for a while.

That’s why they’re still fighting, then? Why Russia’s Kharkiv offensive has basically petered out.

Where are you getting your information from, The Kremlin?

For a country that is ‘done’ they have killed 100s of thousands of Russian troops, beaten the Black Sea Fleet, terrorised Crimea and Bolgorod, and slowly destroying their tanks, artillery and air defences.
They have to give ground against the continuous stream of Russian sacrificial soldiers, but take them out as they do it.
Ukraine is good at war.There is a long way to go yet. Whatever the result Russia is ‘done’ They have been shown up as rubbish at war and cannot attack another country in the next decade even if they have the heart for it.
Their tank turrets pop like champagne corks, their ships seem to sink easily, their air defences systems are poor and they send poorly trained troops to become sausage meat.

Let’s not forget that Wagner invaded Russia. Easily. That gave Putin diarrhea.
Nothing cut and dried here.

Are Su-24 and A-10C equivalent in detection and defeat of MANPADs?

I heard that A-10A to A-10C was a significant upgrade, and since Stinger, you’d expect that countermeasures would be on the USAF shopping list..

I’m assuming that S-300 and Tor would already be SEAD. missions with HARM so less threat than random MANPADs.

The SU-24 is a variable geometry bomber (think a Soviet F-111 Aardvaaaaaaaaaaaaark), and nearly extinct in Ukranian Service because it’s the only platform that can launch Storm Shadow, so already rare at the start of the war, they’ve been #1 on the VVS’s shit list.

The SU-25 is a low level ground attack aircraft built around a big gun, so I’m assuming you meant to comapre the SU-25 and A-10? So the A-10C will definietly have better countermeasures, but Ukraine will not get any A-10C’s, the US only upgraded a couple hundred of them because, being an extensive upgrade, it was really expensive. 700 odd A-10’s where built, I think 200 where upgraded to C standard. So if Ukraine gets anything it’ll be A-10A’s from the Boneyards.

Also while the Ukranians have been making a bit of a laughing stock out of the Russian Missile Forces (what Air Defence doing?) they still do not nearly have the SEAD capability to let A-10’s operate safely near the front (and then you add in the copious amounts of ZSU’s that the Russians have too).