Five Allied aircraft carriers – including flagship HMS Queen Elizabeth – are currently operating in Atlantic and Mediterranean waters in a demonstration of NATO unity.

The Royal Navy say here that five of the most powerful warships in the alliance – plus their supporting carrier strike groups – are deployed, training or exercising as part of their regularly scheduled activities.

“In addition, it’s continuing to operate its four core task groups – Standing Mine Countermeasures Groups 1 and 2, Standing Maritime Groups 1 and 2 – with the latter recently working with HMS Albion’s Littoral Response Group (North) in the Adriatic.

HMS Queen Elizabeth left Portsmouth last week and at present is off the east coast of the UK conducting fast jet training by day and night with her F-35 stealth fighters from RAF 617 Squadron ahead of working with our northern European allies as the UK underscores its commitment to safeguarding the continent’s security.”

The five carriers are:

•       HMS Queen Elizabeth – currently in the North Sea ahead of NATO/Joint Expeditionary Force exercises/training in northern European waters
•       USS George H W Bush – on operations in the Adriatic
•      USS Gerald R Ford – at anchor in Stokes Bay, Gosport, on a short visit to Portsmouth
•       France’s FS Charles de Gaulle and Italy’s ITS Cavour – both in the Mediterranean

“NATO routinely demonstrates its cohesion, coordinating with multiple international maritime assets at once,” said Vice Admiral Keith Blount, Commander of NATO’s Allied Maritime Command.

“This opportunity demonstrates our ironclad commitment to the stability and security of the Euro-Atlantic Area and the strength of our collective capability. Five carriers within our operating area presents a further opportunity to consolidate our approach to air defence, cross-domain cooperation, and maritime-land integration.”

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George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Brom
Brom
1 year ago

Without the spectre of Nukes the Russians would be bricking it. It’s not going to happen and nor should it for a non member obviously but i would count it in hours not days how long the Russians would last in Ukraine should NATO have gotten involved.

They were not the threat I thought they were certainly. That’s not an excuse for us to rest on our laurels however. We need to invest as they are certainly going to invest to regain capacity and capability

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Brom

I was thinking about this yesterday, the psychological effect of having a country as strong as the USA on anything but friendly terms must be quite daunting. having the whole of NATO opposing you must be quite terrifying.

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Some fella on instagram suggested after the Poland missile incident “Russia is about to find out why Americans can’t afford healthcare”. That made me laugh.

DanielMorgan
DanielMorgan
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

And neither can the Brits.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 year ago
Reply to  DanielMorgan

I don’t think you understood the comment.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  David Steeper

😂😂😂🙈

simon alexander
simon alexander
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Jim, agree american might must weigh on russian minds. tsar putin is distorting this as some kind of russian struggle against the west for a great russia again and forcing his people to come with him, not quite like jonestown followers taking suicide pills.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Brom

If we are going to invest in anything it should be renewables, nuclear and batteries. It’s time for the industrialised world to crater the Petro economies. Not just Russia but the Saudis and Iran as well. Once no one wants their oil and gas the world will be a much better place.

Brom
Brom
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

I absolutely agree, energy independence should be a priority. It’s technically feasible all it needs is political will

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Brom

Sadly we learned that lesson in the 1970’s and forgot it again.

OPEC always gleefully push the rest of the world into a deeper recession.

This time round renewables are a major option together with the UK’s proven North Sea gas reserves storage and nuclear.

I can’t really understand why there isn’t better support for households to put solar panel on roofs or for commercial to put it on warehouses. It is industrial / warehouse roofs that are the key to solar not agricultural land.

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers
1 year ago

Solar and battery store is a terrible option for the UK. We need more nuclear and wind so the excess can produce hydrogen rather than trying to sell it abroad or reduce generation. Gas central heating is too endemic to switch over and cars could be refilled at the same speed and places as petrol.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

Domestic solar isn’t. I live in a 5 bed Victorian terraced house. There is only so much insulating you can do and I’m about at Max insulation and good double glazing on all windows. Since doing the insulation + window upgrades in lockdown the energy usage dropped by 40%. I do use solar + 6kW (output) heat pump to massively cut my gas usage. I have a 6kW array that will produce about 2+kW today. That pretty much runs the heat pump in daylight hours. If I’m being more selective and the kids are not home I’d use the AC… Read more »

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers
1 year ago

How long will that setup take to break even though?

Brom
Brom
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

At current energy prices? Not long

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

Normally around 15 years, but with current prices you can halve that.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 year ago

I would agree. I have just installed a 5.2kW system with battery. I am drawing very little energy from the grid and it might make sense to use what I export to drive a heat pump. I would need underfloor heating though for enough radiator surface area.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul.P

It is worth trying turning the CH flow temperature on the boiler down to 55C and see what happens when the weather goes cold. For a lot of bedrooms it is fine as the required temperatures are not that high. Which then only leaves living areas to be altered if necessary. In a lot of houses the radiator sizes, particularly if fitted a while back before double glazing got really good, are ludicrously oversized – as are the boilers. The problem with that is that the boiler is rarely working in the sweet spot. The one watch point with doing… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Supportive Bloke
Paul.P
Paul.P
1 year ago

Thx for the tip on the boiler. I’ve just installed a new hydrogen ready boiler set to 60C. Its not combi. I have bought but is not yet installed an immersion heater switched from the inverter for my hot water. See how that goes.
I think I could cut electricity consumption to zero if I could work out how to wash the dishes in the slow cooker 😂

Ian
Ian
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Here’s a thought- don’t get a water meter, so you pay a standard bill- then run a tap continuously to spin a turbine and thus generate power for free…

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago

So what temp is good to have the hot water and heating at? Just now my water is at full and it only just manages to fill the bath at 37c. The heating is lower as kids in the house.
If I could get some kind of subsidy help I would fit better systems in a heartbeat. Saving for new doors and windows just now.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

It is very hard to advise. With some older boilers reducing the CH temperature isn’t a good idea as it causes corrosion on the heat exchanger. It also depends on the control system a lot and how they are programmed. Most modern smart systems pulse the boiler on and off. However, it can take seconds (or minutes) for some boilers to reach optimal efficiency. So it may be better to change the frequency of pulsing lower, per hour, on older boiler. On a modern modulating boiler it is generally best to set the CH flow temperature to the lowest value… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago

I will have a look at the boiler and see what it’s doing. I think it’s a combi boiler. It does the water and heating without having a hot water tank.
That last statement probably gives away how much I know about boilers.

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 year ago

Remember being in a text house circa 1980 in mid Wales late October in a Scandinavian insulated triple glaze uninhabited house. Body heat was enough to keep a reasonable temperature. Criminal in the intervening 40 years little has happened to learn the lessons of that test house despite a revolution in I proved tech since then.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

The construction industry resists every innovation to the death. Unfortunately there is good reason to as there are so few skilled workers to implement anything: change costs a fortune. What you say is totally true of new builds. The problem is that there are massive quantities of Victorian and Edwardian house and then the post war estates that up to the 80’s didn’t really consider insulation as a priority. The question is how do you mitigate what is there? Just doing the basics of double glazing and proper loft insulation would make a massive difference. But then what are you… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Supportive Bloke
Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago

Should try my place, it’s around 400+ years old……I tried to get solar but all the chimneys got in the way….as for wall insulation…..4 foot of stone and rubble just does not do it. Pretty good as a bunker ( the roof joists are actual tree trunks) piss poor for energy efficiency.

Ian
Ian
1 year ago

I have a late 40s house- subsequently had plenty of retrofitted insulation and new, high quality double-glazed windows. The overall effect is a condensation problem that I will likely have to mitigate by installing active ventilation. These older properties suffer from cold-bridging due to the use of concrete lintels, and there’s a risk of moisture wicking through cavity insulation due to a lack of modern DPC. Insulation is not as practical as policy-makers seem to think..

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian

Worth thinking where the moisture is coming from.

HRU (heat recovery units) would be your best bet.

But I’d still try and understand the source of the humidity.

A drying cupboard provides a dual benefit of keeping the humidity enclosed, say for drying towels, and provides trickle ventilation.

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

One of the issues with climate change is ‘global stilling’. Due to the dropping off in winds, in the future the U.K. is going to have to increase the number of its wind turbines by 30% to get the same generation we currently have.

Contrary to popular belief you don’t need blazing sunshine for solar panels to work, in fact their efficiency drops off if the sunlight is too bright and the temperature too hot. Besides, the south of England is going to be as hot and sunny as the Mediterranean in the next decade or so.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

I agree. Sure output drops in the UK winter when days are shorter and the sun less high/bright. But, you still get a decent slug of juice of out the array most days. The other thing that is a myth is that only South facing works – West is pretty good too at present energy prices. Really it depend on how cheap the panels are and what grid energy prices are like. ATM even East panels make sense to elongate the generating day. Panel prices are consistently dropping and outputs rising. OK there was a hiccough when the invasion took… Read more »

OkamsRazor
OkamsRazor
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

Don’t see the logic of your last statement. Essentially a gas boiler is Heating water and sending it around the house, so what difference does it make if an electric boiler is heating the water and sending it round the house?

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

Terrible option? I hear good reports from people who have solar panels about their very low energy bills. A new nuclear power station at the other end of the country is not going to reduce my energy bills.

grizzler
grizzler
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

why not- why would an intergated Nuclear Energy Infrastructure not reduce bills.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  grizzler

We are building just one nuclear power station (Sizewell C) to replace an old one – and it is unlikely to generate energy until 2036 or so. Thats really not going to lower everyone’s energy bills. In fact it might increase my energy bills

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48593581

Whereas if I fitted solar power to my house it would definitely reduce my energy bills.

Ian
Ian
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

Luke ……. Use the force……. Of tidal energy……….

Slothnado
Slothnado
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

Cars use hydrogen as a storage medium, not as fuel – they use fuel cells to convert it into electricity for the same electric motors that a battery car would use. Batteries are MASSIVELY more efficient at storing said electricity. There is a reason no one makes hydrogen cars anymore – they only benefit fossil fuel companies. Also battery cars can charge over night at home, or during the day at work when they are sat idle anyway. So the speed they fill up is not important. As they become more numerous they become more and more useful to help… Read more »

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers
1 year ago
Reply to  Slothnado

Apart from Toyota, Hyundai and Honda etc, but I guess they are tiny, niche manufacturers. Lithium Batteries are dogshit and only last a couple of years and the charging infrastructure fantasy is just that.

Ian
Ian
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

The Japanese are investing heavily in a proper hydrogen infrastructure, because they have the technology and the will to get things done. We are investing in batteries purely because it doesn’t require the government to make any effort around infrastructure provision. I suspect you’re right that we’re basically going the ‘Betamax’ route.

Ian
Ian
1 year ago
Reply to  Slothnado

The specific energy (i.e.energy density) of the best LiPo batteries is ca. 10 x less than the stored energy of the same volume of Diesel. That’s why battery cars are either very heavy or have range issues. The specific energy of hydrogen for fuel cell use depends on the extent to which the hydrogen is compressed. The Honda Clarity uses carbon fiber tanks and compresses the fuel to about the same specific energy as a LiPo battery- but this is a relatively crude approach because no-one’s yet cracked the problem of reversible hydride storage- which would give you better specific… Read more »

Ian
Ian
1 year ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

Well quite. It irritates me immensely that government policy hasn’t focused on nuclear + hydrogen infrastructure- preferring instead to spend on impractical battery technologies and unreliable baseloads in search of a quick win.

Nicholas
Nicholas
1 year ago

It would be quite possible for smaller communities, villages, small towns and so on, along with individual residents to start their own solar and wind power schemes. This would reduce bills, reduce dependance and distribute supply. Unfortunately the energy industry don’t want this and this is one of the reasons why set up costs are high and grants unavailable.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Nicholas

It was fascinating seeing, from inside government, how the whole community and domestic solar thing was killed back in 2010 – the industry just kept parroting that the grid would uncontrollable.

Although local, small scale, battery storage wasn’t really a thing then.

John
John
1 year ago

There’s also tidal. UK has 1/3 of Europes offshore wind generation potential. Offshore oil and gas is looking to develop hydrogen power. RR is looking to develop small nuclear power generators but haven’t heard any updates on that for a while. Potentially easier to set up compared to the conventional large stations.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  John

The environmentalists will kill tidal. How, you create clean hydrogen from gas is a mystery to me: having a chemistry PhD. It doesn’t work unless you have very good CCS. The killer is that CCS mitigates and isn’t 100%. So given the inherent energy use and inefficiency it would be greener to burn the gas I’m afraid. The ONLY way hydrogen makes sense is if you have a huge excess of wind power and you use the windy excess days to make hydrogen and store it at volume to power vehicles. Hydrogen for domestic heating is joke technology. The existing… Read more »

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago

Yep the only way to do it will be if we relax some planning accept stuff on our doorsteps as well as some more localised environmental changes. personally I’m very much in favour of tidal, we actually trashed a lot of our wetland habits through drainage, let’s give a bit of it back with some tidal barriers….we have great tides in the U.K. so we could have a few really big barrages. Wave is getting better as well. Especially since they have moved to using air pressure to drive the turbines…the coils in theory stick an air pressure based set… Read more »

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathans

There is also liquified air power.

I company in Manchester is building a prototype unit that used excess grid power to liquify air which it then warms up and runs through turbines to produce elctricity when the wind fails…

Apparently some chap spent 30 years perfecting it in his garage. He now lives in a bigger house…

https://highviewpower.com/plants/#uk-projects

Cheers CR

Ian
Ian
1 year ago

If the existing gas network is so porous how was it able to cope with Town Gas i.e. mostly hydrogen) until the late 1970s?

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian

Town gas had 45-50% hydrogen in it. The network was much younger and the pipe used was dominantly iron barrel or cast iron for the mains. Iron is ok with hydrogen if it is the right kind of iron. This changed to steel later when North Sea gas became a thing. Steel embrittles when subjected to hydrogen gas. Plastic gas pipe has also been used widely. This can be very porous to the tiny hydrogen molecules. A small army worked for the utility companies fixed leaks back in the day. Gas explosions were frequent even when homes were a lot… Read more »

Slothnado
Slothnado
1 year ago

I’m in the solar industry. The current prices mean there is now far more demand in the market to have solar panels fitted to warehouses than there is capacity to install it. We’re putting in megawatts of capacity every month. No need for goverment incentives. Getting the power companies to accept export to the grid is the major challenge due to their decades of under investment.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Slothnado

Sorry, I was talking about incentives to for home owners. Even just paying sensible export tariffs would help rather than blaming ‘administrative’ costs for paying almost nothing. Or to have a moderate sized battery to smooth things out or bridge peak periods. I agree that it is very hard to get clearance to feed into most 100A 3 phase heads and larger. On the Insustrial estate, I’m a shareholder in, we just sell the electricity to the users. There is a bakery there that uses plenty and actually we have incentivised them to do more baking in the day. The… Read more »

Steve
Steve
1 year ago

The issue is the oil/gas companies pay a lot of taxes for western countries and with that they bring a lot of influence. It would be hard for any country to go fully renewable because of that influence. We could have done so years ago, but most of the projects were binned when the current government got into power.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

In this environment people will vote with their feet.

Every solar panel on a rooftop is a lot of kWh of electricity that won’t be needed over the next 20 years.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago

Only the richer part of the country. The majority of the country can’t afford to upfront price of solar and the out of control cost of living means that affordability will get worse. Someone highlighted that the rich don’t spend as much money on the basics, because they can afford to buy better quality stuff that lasts longer, whilst the poor has to buy cheap and so pay more over time.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve
Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

As mentioned before though forget the context, I’ve held shares in BP for years. But yet again ‘my’ multinational has hit the headlines for the wrong reasons such that I’m finally sick of it. A BBC article last week focussed on Iraqi residents and kids near flare-off site at Rumaila suffering serious health issues for want of the company spending a tiny bit of it’s profits on containing it. BP clearly not alone, but my association with them is not comfortable. I’ll need to, and will, resolve satisfactorily once and for all. Add to that the separate news that US… Read more »

OkamsRazor
OkamsRazor
1 year ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

I think you, like many others confuse shareholding with management control. BP is seldom the “operating company” in these ventures. However, they are the foreigners with deep pockets. When I worked for a multinational with a large US subsidiary, when the parent company told them to do something that might reduce their profits the US sub would say FO (in US management speak). See Deepwater Horizon.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 year ago
Reply to  OkamsRazor

Yes pretty much aware, OR. It becomes a Grenfell Saga. As I say, Sick of it.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

On second point Jim, the rush for rare elements and concomitant exploitation of those mining them for ‘green’ technologies is going to follow the same path to Profit Is All, of course.

Last edited 1 year ago by Gavin Gordon
ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Yeh, but demand for rare earths might take a hit in the not too distant future. A US university and Cambridge University researchers have developed permanant magnets of very high effeciency without the need for rare earth metals. Whilst this does solve the demand for batteries and transmission, current electric motor permanent magnets do create significant demand apparently. They have managed to manufacture a material that does not exist naturally on earth. We only know about it because it is present in some astroids..! https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/new-approach-to-cosmic-magnet-manufacturing-could-reduce-reliance-on-rare-earths-in-low-carbon Hopefully this development could feed into the UK’s push into EV manufacturing. If we could… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Rare earth metals are not that rare.

It is just nobody can be bothered to invest in clean plant for extraction.

It is all doable.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 year ago

Good Morning, Supportive. Of course nobody doubts that a little want of concern for people without a say is all doable. It’s precisely why I made the comments earlier , as you’ll readily acknowledge I don’t doubt. One ends with the conclusion that the complicated relationships that make multinationals so ‘helpless’ in the face of moral transgression equate to ‘inconvenient legalities = convenient excuses’ – almost like lawyers structured them for that very purpose, heaven forbid. Crossed my mind at the time of Deepwater that the local operations risks with safety seemed remarkably in accord with the Sump King’s mania… Read more »

sparks
sparks
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

A darker and colder place!
What the world needs is more realists!

simon alexander
simon alexander
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

UK has been failed by our gov energy policy, we have always paid higher energy prices than other countries. consumers have been asked to pay for investment in windfarms and nuclear etc and yet when there is an energy crisis, we pay the gazumped market price. we bailed out energy suppliers who did not hedge energy supplies for the year ahead.
meanwhile UK has massive wind farm assets on her coastline and profits likely go abroad. we also removed LPG storage. almost as bad as the germans relying on 2 russian gas pipelines against NATO advice.

dp
dp
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Canada is doomed…

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Brom

The area that’s seeing least investment is orbital solar farms. Far more solar energy could be captured from orbit – you wouldn’t have it diminished by the atmosphere and you could ensure they were always sun-facing. Power would then be transmitted by microwave to surface receivers.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

A space based high energy weapon?

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

I’m not sure how you describe a narrow MW level steerable beam IRL?

I accept that the tech exists to make it work the big issue is the carbon footprint cost of the launches to get the panels and other kit up there.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

Giant MAZER in space beaming energy back to earth. What could go wrong 😀

Most people will s**t a Brick if you try and put an electricity pylon with in a mile of their house. 5G phone towers caused mass panic in some areas. 6 mile wide microwave antennas near a town in the south of England, no chance.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jim
Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

I’d respectfully suggest with the necessary power densities there might be something to be concerned about! If things went wrong with the beam steering.

This is a bit more than boil a kettle levels of energy!!

5G there isn’t enough power to do damage. Inverse cube law. Unless you are sat in the transmitter module.

Here the purpose is to concentrate power at orders of magnitude greater power levels.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago

Yes, imagine that!

Coll
Coll
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

I’m pretty sure I heard China was planning an orbital-style mirror, or Fake Moon, that would direct sunlight to a specific area. Although this isn’t the first attempt at such a feat, both failed.

Last edited 1 year ago by Coll
Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Coll

Wasn’t that the plot in “Die Another Day” – probably the worst Bond movie ever.

It’s feasible, and there are solar farms that use elevated mirrors to concentrate the beam. The problem might be the beam generated. A microwave would be harmless if a human or aircraft got in the way, but if they got in the way of a concentrated light beam… the stories of the Walkie-Talkie Building melting cars due to its in concave shape springs to mind.

Last edited 1 year ago by Sean
Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

Elon Musk, runs the worlds largest solar company and the worlds largest space company and he states very clearly that on orbit solar make no sense.

To be honest with wind and solar as cheap as they are I don’t see the need for another for of renewable power. Storage is getting better and cheaper all the time. If I’m adding something extra is probably Geo thermal.

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

I’ve huge respect for Musk, I can’t believe the US us wasting money on SLS at $4bn a launch when he’s very likely to have the fully reuseable Starship platform operational within a couple of years. However he also has a habit of publicly rubbishing an idea before suddenly somersaulting 180 degrees and investing money in it , so I’d take any comment rubbishing solar orbit with a very large pinch of salt… I suspect though there might be contention between orbiting solar farms and satellite constellations; ie his own StarLink. Unfortunately wind and solar on earth are variable by… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

I’m not sure Elon is playing with a full deck anymore after Twitter, I don’t think NASA a trust him anymore and the USAF certainly don’t.

I was quite surprised by his rejection of space based solar but his arguments seems to stack up.

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

NASA trust him, he has the contract for a modified version of Starship to function as the shuttle between the Lunar Gateway and the surface. And the USAF have a contract with SpaceX for Heavy Falcon launches; I think they might have specifically developed Heavy for them. Musk deliberately seeks to be a disruptive influence. However he’s juggling so much that he misses the human factor and gets caught out by the storm he initiated. He’s also a nightmare to work for – I’ve heard some horror stories from former employees. But his handling of Twitter has been an omnishambles… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

Twitter is hitting new records for activity virtually every day. Don’t believe what the establishment media pumps out. Musk has a lot of people frightened but anyone who believes in freedom of speech should be celebrating. I know I am.

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I know it’s getting new records of people leaving, both the platform and the company! 😆
I believe in the both the rights and responsibilities that come with freedom of speech. That he’s letting mr fake-tan back onto the platform is I think a cynical attempt to create more controversy. Twitter is all about creating controversy, it’s a perpetual rage machine for the unhinged, not a platform for sensible debate.

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

Rage, fear and controversy sell, unfortunately it’s been the, way of the less ethical media and politicians for all eternity.

Tom
Tom
1 year ago
Reply to  Brom

At the start of all these shenanigans, I also believed that Vlad’s objectives, would be completed months ago. The Ukrainians have shown great resolve, and should be proud of what they have achieved.   The Russian forces have come across as mediocre at best however, they have been up against NATO, maybe not in the ‘flesh’, but most certainly in a ‘proxy’ manner.   Unfortunately, the west seems quite happy to continue to watch events from afar. NATO has had ample opportunity to legally get involved in this shit-show, more so since the murder of two people in Poland this… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom

I cannot see how NATO can get involved in warfighting against Russia in Ukraine. Article 5 has not and cannot be invoked, as Ukraine is not a NATO member. How is this not understood?

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Well in theory countries in NATO could if it they wanted to And then an attack on those countries involved would then trigger article 5. Its actually a bit of a structural problem with nato in that it’s assumed that no NATO nation will cause itself to be attacked…which worked during the Cold War…but not into modern murky multi polar geo politics. There is not anything stopping one nation defending another or in-fact one nation invading another on some pretext of self defence: we and the US have done so before, both to defend another nation which is in our… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathans

Yes, there was an assumption of balanced conventional power.

As the power balance is so lopsided some idiot, Turkey I’m looking at you, might decide to have a pop for domestic political reasons.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathans

Interesting points. I can’t see any NATO nation entering Ukraine to aid them (without NATO approval), setting their troops up to be attacked by Russian troops and then calling Article 5. Russia has certainly breached the Budapest Memorandum (in Feb 2022 and on 20th Feb 2014) but it does not mandate an armed response by other signatories. You are right that it could however be used as a justification by US and/or UK to send forces. The memorandum does require a representation to be made to the UN Security Council – presumably that happened? But UN has clearly not agreed… Read more »

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Hi Graham, I agree I don’t think we or any western nation will send troops to Ukraine.But I think we have to be honest with ourselves in its our choice more than anything else, as always it’s always about national interest: is it in our interest to go to war with Russia yes/no. If it’s no then it’s convenient to find no reason to justify a war, if on the other hand it was in our national interest to go to war to defend Ukraine a reason would be found. It’s always been the way of things. As to should… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathans

In days of Empire we acted militarily in the national interest and as a force for good in the world – the deployment of the BEF in 1914 and 1939 are examples of the latter. All somewhat different in the age of both formal and enduring alliances (NATO and US/UK) and nuclear weapons. In the Cold War NATO defended the Euro-Atlantic area by deterrent placement of forces, but did not defend a non-NATO country under threat from a more powerful neighbour. Post Cold War, that has still been the case. I could never see NATO forces deploying into Ukraine in… Read more »

Tom
Tom
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Ok… The Budapest Memorandum 1994 has been broken, and not acted upon. POLAND is a NATO member. So… ‘how is this not understood???

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom

The Budapest Memorandum has certainly been broken by Russia when she invaded Ukraine, as it was when she invaded Crimea. In the case of the latter, the sanction from ‘The West’ was to temporarily suspend Russia from the G8 – lame and pathetic. Wiki: “The Memorandum was negotiated at political level, but it is not entirely clear whether the instrument is devoid entirely of legal provisions. It refers to assurances, but unlike guarantees, it does not impose a legal obligation of military assistance on its parties”. You refer to Poland, presumably because a missile hit a farm and killed 2… Read more »

Tom
Tom
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

The ordinary people of Europe sit and watch, weep and lament, as this drags on and on and on. The inability of Europe, NATO or even the world to act, to bring this war to an end is shameful.

Ukraine burns, innocents on both sides die, and no one cares, least of all the arms industry, and the proxy war fighters.

All we get, are fools making excuses to do nothing. If there is intelligent life out there, they will have written off planet Earth, and the pathetic human race, destroying its natural resources.

Damo
Damo
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom

You want to send UK troops in?

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom

The world has acted – harsh sanctions against Russia and key Russian individuals, boycott of Russian gas, supply of weapons and munitions to Ukraine, training of Ukraine personnel.
Wrong to say no one cares – we all do.
What more can we do? What do you suggest? Assassinate Putin? Deploy huge NATO air/land force into Ukraine? Bomb Russian army targets in Ukraine?

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  Tom

Simple truth are you willing to get into a war that could effectively end human civilisation destroying you and your entire family and everything you have ever known ? Because that is the reality risk inherent in a war between Russia and NATO. Simply put NATO so overmatches Russian conventional forces they would have only two options crushing and utter defeat or using nuclear weapons I know I would not want to bet in what they would do.

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Hi Graham, interestingly the use of the word assurance has not really been tested in international law, it was American lawyers who decided that the term assurance would not require military intervention. In truth neither the US or U.K. decided to test that. In reality post the annexation of Crimea, the US and U.K. could have very easily offered battle groups as peace keepers Within Ukraine on the grounds of providing assurance. Would that have prevented the Ukraine war or just ended up triggering article 5 after Russia plowed into the battle groups anyway. Who knows. Just glad I’m not… Read more »

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago

Let’s hope the Ukrainian forces can push the Russian’s back into the Asov sea as quickly as possible and then Ukraine can strengthen its borders and start to rebuild. Russia’s military adventurism and behaviour in Ukraine is disgusting and outrageous. They need a brick in their face. And to top it off, blow the Kerch Bridge up goiod and proper next time!

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

NATO naval capability is light years ahead of anything anyone else on the planet could ever dream of. Not only do you have the US and UK carrier fleets operating the latest 5 th generation fighters but dozens of the latest SSK’s and SSN’s with basing all over the world. Chinas only hope for world dominance was to attempt to pull Europe and the UK away from a close relationship with the USA. Up until 2012 that looked like a potential possibility but Xi Jin Ping has managed to scupper that in just a few years with his ham-fisted handling… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

The Chinese like all bullies don’t like a show of real strength. Hence, why the fet cross every time people say no.

Then you have Macron messing around weakening the very United NATO fronts against Russia and trying to mess up the AUKUS from the outside. Pathetic.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago

What has macron done to weaken nato? I’ve not been watching the news recently.

Marius
Marius
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

You’ve answered your own question! Start watching the news, do try to keep up with events.🙄

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Marius

How does saying I’ve not seen what macron has done answer the question of what has he done? I still don’t know

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Yeah I’m confused too, he wasn’t great at the beginning of this conflict true though looking back his concerted efforts to prevent and stop it make a lot of sense considering the wars appalling nature. But he seems to have been pretty much onside since.

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Marius

The best thing you could do is stop watching the mainstream news… There are enough drones out there already.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago

Hmmm…perhaps Gallic feathers and pride slightly ruffled? While AUKUS was undoubtedly the correct geopolitical choice, the manner of reveal displayed a certain collective deficit of grace and elan. Diplomats are paid handsomely to be well…diplomatic. Not certain which country is most culpable for the unforced diplomatic error, but no one has that great an overabundance of allies, that they can afford to treat others that cavalierly. The French will eventually reconcile, but the memory will linger…🤔😳

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

I think it had to be done the way it was done.

Micron would have been messing around blowing up anything diplomatic to try and salvage it.

I’m sure the EU useful idiot Borel would have got involved too.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago

Believe it was W.S. Churchill who stated (paraphrased), that even if you have to kill a man, it causes no harm to be civil in language (or words to that effect). 😉

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

Actual W.S. Churchill quote, “When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.” 🤣😂 (My vote for greatest PM)

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

I read a very interesting anthropological study of island cultures and being polite. As they all tend to be aggressive they are also very Keen on being very polite as a way of managing the aggression that seems to be a trademark island nation issue (they are also a Touch xenophobic with a superiority complex). Britain and Japan are two very good case studies, very similar core behaviours. interestingly island cultures have a bit of a love hate with the sea….it’s either a fearful place full of invaders and threats or an abundance of opportunities depending on where culture happens… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

At the time of AUKUS France as leading the charge to blockade the UK so was nice for the cousins to present us with a big stick to beat them with. However no matter what you do the French will be pissed off with you.

We saved their country twice and they hate us.

They still think you owe them for 1776 😀

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

We believe we have repaid the debt on at least two occasions.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

We agree but they think you should up late 😀

Last edited 1 year ago by Jim
DanielMorgan
DanielMorgan
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

If you really think Australia and Japan have shown a greater willingness to partner with the UK than with the US then you have missed out on the history of the Pacific for the last 80 years or so and aren’t living in the real world.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 year ago
Reply to  DanielMorgan

Agreed on Australia but for Japan see Tempest. US is indispensible to both but Japan is willing and able to seek independence of action just in case.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Yes, Japan outreach to us is to give them additional options in the face of China. Japan is not willing to play the same role of Runway One we played in the Cold War. We all have a role to play in containing China however the US has ulterior motives. They want to make sure that China does not over take them at any cost.

AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Important News from Japan

Japan, Britain, Italy moving forward on fighter jet projectTHE ASAHI SHIMBUN
November 18, 2022 at 16:12 JST

Japan, Britain and Italy are expected to reach a formal agreement in December to develop a next-generation fighter jet that will be used by the Air Self-Defense Force, Japanese government sources said.
Japan plans to deploy the new fighters by around 2035, when the ASDF’s current F-2s will start to retire.

Last edited 1 year ago by AlexS
David Steeper
David Steeper
1 year ago
Reply to  AlexS

Thanks. It’s moving forward very nicely and fingers crossed smoothly. 👍

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  AlexS

Sweden no longer a factor?

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

Swedes were only ever on as a tech development partner. I guess not really big enough to warrant partner status.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

If Sweden isn’t in the program what are they going to do? Continue with gripen? Sweden already do very well for a small country. The gap in the market may well exist for a cheaper multi role aircraft if the 6th gen prove to be really expensive. Perhaps a stealthy, sensor fused gripen.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

That could prove to be ironic for Sweden to be a tech development partner in Tempest, then evolve Gripens to be a lower cost alternative to Tempest. Hadn’t considered that scenario. All is fair in love and war (and presumably arms sales). 😳

AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

Sweden are only observers. They only paid to have that status.
The only ones that put money in the project have been UK and Italy.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  AlexS

And presumably, relatively soon, Japan. The country w/ relatively deep pockets and expertise in relevant tech. Excellent choice for consortium. 👍 The Japanese, who unfortunately reside in a tough neighborhood, are motivated to increase/diversify partnerships and alliances. Perfectly understandable from their perspective. For UK, understand this may further emesh the country in SCS security issues, “We are going to need a bigger Navy.” 🤔😳

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 year ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Indeed Japan has a strong cultural attraction to the UK it can enter into cooperation on completely different terms than it can with the US and thus it will widen its scope in such matters accordingly. Being totally tied to the US as things are developing internally in that Country would be madness for any Country be it UK or Japan and over time even Australia. Thankfully the UK is getting much more aligned in European defence structures and boy do we need to. The US sadly could be in great danger of disintegration in various ways as China overtakes… Read more »

AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Ridiculous…
Obama: Crimea, Iraq incompetency = ISI
Trump:
Biden: Afghanistan incompetency, full invasion of Ukraine.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Biden is just as bad for us as Trump. Just for different reasons. Agree on Europe. But they’re only a good choice because US co-operation is so unnatractive. Exclude Italy and Poland from those reservations. Japan is good all round would love to see us bring S. Korea into Tempest. With both would hope for much more co-operation in other areas too

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Two points re SK: 1.) Uncertain the degree to which government and industry are penetrated by NK and ChiCom intelligence; and 2.) Reference caution in thread above, in which UK could be drawn into SCS military confrontation. From US perspective, the more the merrier, but perhaps you should consider a larger RN and RAF? 🤔😳

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

We dream of (and need) a larger RN and RAF (and Army) but these damn politicians keep cutting the headcount and the platform count once or twice a decade, with almost no exceptions. They seem to want the Forces to be the minimum possible (and to only just hit the NATO spending target), rather than to be sufficient for ‘Global Britain’s’ role.

Must be great to be from a country that admires and expects strong armed forces, and only rarely cuts numbers.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

You describe an interesting paradox, we who have an ocean between the US and bad actors, are apparently more concerned than those who have a big ditch between themselves and trouble. Perhaps w/ the passage of years, British politicians and public have forgotten (or never learned) the trials and privations of WW II. Reflecting upon that, one would have to be 95 yrs. old now, to have carried arms during that cataclysm. The greatest generation, and it’s wisdom, is almost extinguished. 🤔

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

…a minimum of 95 yrs. old…

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Two points re SK: 1.) Uncertain the degree to which government and industry are penetrated by NK and ChiCom intelligence; and 2.) Reference caution in thread above regarding potential UK military commitment. From US perspective, the more the merrier, but perhaps you should consider a larger RN and RAF? 🤔😳

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

Maybe S.Korea has a problem with Chinese infiltration but they could say the same about UK, US and others !

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

What is the name of God are you on?

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

The USA just now is the worlds police man. Everyone looks to them as the leader of the world whether they want to be that or not.
Any president also has to deal with all the domestic issues that any leader has to deal with and as all leaders sometimes they get it wrong. Or it right for the domestic policy but wrong for the world.
Without the USA parts of the world would be under a lot more pressure from some bigger countries. Is the USA perfect? No. Is it good enough? I think it will do.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I would agree I just don’t think any of those parts of the world are in European NATO. Europe is easily able to defend itself. Russia is not the Soviet Union and there is no one else near Europe that can threaten it. The myth of Europes inability to defend itself is a fiction invented by the US military industrial complex to just why the USA has to spend so much on defence when it’s infrastructure is third world and its healthcare welfare system except failures unthinkable in any other developed nation. In the UK we pay a medium tax… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

I think Europe could defend its self fine on its own. Maybe not having nuclear parity could be a small issue. Problem I see with that though is we are in a global economy so what happens else where will effect Europe. If Europe had all its own resources and produced nearly everything it needed from those resources it wouldn’t be a big issue if the rest of the world went to the wall. Way I see it is if the world is in a global economy then every country in that globe has to be peaceful and get along.… Read more »

John Stevens
John Stevens
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Totally agree. We rely on the USA so very much. The division and sometimes damn right nastiness we see in US politics is worrying. My own personnel experience of the United States of America is still admiration, had many good times over that side of the pond. NATO must stay as the pinnacle of our and the rest of Europe’s security, with the US holding the whole thing together. Bidens administration is giving huge support to the Ukraine – That’s the US at its best. Respect!!!

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

“The rumors of our demise have been greatly exaggerated.” 😉

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

A country the size and influence of the USA won’t suddenly disappear in importance. USA No1

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

From an outside observer point of view and a believer in western liberal democracy being worth defending I do worry that the US is showing some risk of political instability. One of Russia’s successes seems to be the sowing of chaos in political dialogue across western nations. It’s not so much the republican/democrats who should be in power dialogue ( I don’t much care as it’s the USs business who wins an election). But it seems that some number of people in the states are no longer believing in the probity of the basics of its political and democratic processes.… Read more »

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathans

Sorry, given voluminous number of posts, it is a non-trivial task to find a specific one. So, determined to drag me into the briar patch, eh? 😁 Alright, my most candid assessment: US faced a reasonably serious threat to democracy from Nov 20 to Jan 21; at this point however, immediate threat has substantially receded. President attempted to organize Putsch; foiled by numerous public officials at federal and state level who adhered to tenets of Constitution. Impossible to execute revolution w/out concerted support of military; senior military leadership has been thoroughly inculcated w/ principles of Constitution, Federal statues and the… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  DanielMorgan

I don’t care about 80 years ago I’m talking about now. Japan and Australia are moving mountains for us to get in to CTPP along with NZ and Canada. The US is screwing us on trade for the sake of the Republic of Ireland and the Trump base. They wont let us join NAFTA and if they were still in CTPP they would be actively blocking us from joining that. The US is taking a harder line with the UK on the Northern Ireland protocol than the EU or the Republic of Ireland primarily because the democrats Irish immigrant routes… Read more »

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

If China takes Taiwan we are all in the shit economically it would go from virtually nil to around 70% control of silicon chip fab and if not then it will because the infrastructure will have been destroyed. Until those fab resources are greatly moved to the US, India, Vietnam and elsewhere distance will men bugger all to the crippling effect to our economies that makes the present hiatus look like a mere inconvenience. Meanwhile progressively in the aftermath Russia gets all the chips it will need. Sure most of the design elements of those chips won’t be in their… Read more »

David Barry
David Barry
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

I’d be weary of reshoring to India… as I grew up, I remember them as intensely anti-British, very pro Commie weapons acquisitions, as were the Lankans. So we left them alone and disengaged. Indian and Lankan politicians will Commie cash and oil; the ordinary Lankan people are quite pro-British, revere us for some of our achievements, which are set in aspic and yet there are Economists and Educationalists who beat us down. We need 5 eyes engagement with these countries as well as Portuguese, Dutch and French participation that engages the nay sayers and challenges the narrative that we are… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  David Barry

India certainly no friend to the UK, they hate us an indian TV and movies constantly play anti British propaganda.

India becoming a very dangerous country under Modi. We should not make the same mistakes we did with China. We don’t need to be building new super powers.

simon alexander
simon alexander
1 year ago
Reply to  David Barry

DB is not the pro-communist nostalgia only with a certain generation of elderly freedom fighters from the 1970’s. with care we should engage with india which is a democracy and has reservations about china expansion

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

CHIPS Act will significantly ameliorate situation within a decade. Now, whether a grace period is afforded us…🤔😳🤞

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

You realize Trump is no longer the president right….

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Yes I am aware.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

The UK could lobby the Canadians to sponsor inclusion in NAFTA. Best wishes for inclusion in CTPP.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

My understanding is that neither Canada or Mexico will due to UK accession to CTPP and preference for US to join CTPP verses son of NAFTA and US is reluctant to do any form of trade deal with anyone any more.

David
David
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

My only concern with NATO is political will. Should the crap hit the fan and a member nation invokes Article 5, who will actually step up to the plate and commit their forces 100%?

I know the US invoked after 9-11 but in a serious punch-up, who will stand shoulder to shoulder with whom?

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  David

No doubt the US and the UK would be amongst the few that would Stand up. However that’s Eastern and Central Europes problem. The UK has spent 70 years trying to pull the US in to European security but it’s not needed anymore.

The UK and Europe can easily provide for their own security and do.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Nearly everyNATO member deployed troops the last time Article 5 was called.
I don’t see that the UK has had to inveigle the US into aiding European security – it has been a NATO remit for all NATO countries to defend the Euro-Atlantic area.
UK and Europe alone do not provide enough military forces for continental defence.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

European nato has more troops than Russia and massively superior capability.

It’s has more forces then the USA.

So who can’t it defend against?

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Euro NATO could possibly/probably defend itself against conventional Russian attack if we had some warning.

But to successfully counter-attack to reclaim lost land is a different matter – and we lack numbers to be sure of success.

Russia has a huge amount of AFVs (including tanks), AD systems and artillery. Euro NATO is short of tactical nuclear weapons (only France has them) and far less strategic nuclear weapons. Russia has strategic bombers; Euro NATO has none.

I am glad we have the US forces around the corner.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

We have seen exactly how useful all of the Russian wonder weapons were when wheeled out in Ukraine and how effectively they were mashed up using only the 1990’s and 2000’s cast offs that we gave Zelenski. That is without any AirPower at all. The massed weight of NATO’s European air power is massive. Frankly Poland could probably take out most of the Russian Air Force itself. Never mind if the UK and the Nordics got heavily involved. That would be the real difference. I’d see the Ukrainians as being quite capable happy to fight the land war if the… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

You talking about a 50 mile gap from European NATO boarder to Russians entire Atlantic nuclear submarine base. They could have it captured in a few hours. Imagine trying to defend the UK is Russia had a boarder with the UK in Dundee 50 miles from Faslane.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago

If the conflict (joined by NATO’s air forces) were entirely constrained within Ukraine’s borders and stayed non-nuclear, you may be right.
I have always thought, though, that you underestinate your enemy at your peril.
The likelihood of use by Russia of WMD in Ukraine and also of them hitting military targets in the homelands of NATO members (such as the air bases such combat power was launched from) must be considered.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

And I would add to that to overestimate your enemy’s rationality!

Last edited 1 year ago by Supportive Bloke
Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago

Very true! I did not think Putin would invade Ukraine on the basis of rational thought and little to no cost-effectiveness resulting.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Poland on its own world tear Russia apart now much less the rest of Europe. Your talking about a $400 billion a year budget with a standing military force of full time professionals of 1.8 million verses a Russian force with a budget of $60 billion and a nominal full time military force of 1.3 million. Europe has 4 times the population and 10 times the economy with military tech far beyond Russias dreams.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Janes quotes Polish annual defence budget for 2023 to rise to c$20bn not $400bn.
CIA factbook shows active service personnel to be 120,000 and Territorials to be 30,000 (of which 5k are active) – so I am not sure why you state 1.8 million- although there will be an expansion of active (ie regulars) personnel in the period up to 2029.
I like to be optimistic but there is reason to be concerned about Russia’s strategic nuclear, tactical nuclear, bomber force, artillery, hyperbaric weapons, missiles of all stripes including hypersonic.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Concur, a wounded bear can prove deadly.

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

To be fair Graham If the U.K. and Russia somehow ended up in a fight on their own ( because NATO and all our alliances collapsed) I would put my money on the RN and RAF being able to hold Russia into its own waters and airspace. Let’s be honest russia has not even managed to dominate the airspace of a minnow airforce on its own boarder it would have no hope of managing the RAF. As for nuclear weapons we have the ability to end Russia as functioning nation state just as Russia can do to us. I don’t… Read more »

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Then why aren’t you doing it?

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

We are in Ukraine.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  David

You mention 9/11 as your example. It is the only example of Article 5 in the entire history of NATO of course. I think 26 out of 30 NATO countries deployed troops to Afghanistan to take on AQ (& Taliban). So, I would expect the vast majority of NATO members would deploy in the event of another Article 5 event.

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  David

There is a very big problem in NATO as some of its members don’t really stand the smell test of nations we would wish to support. Big question would the US or U.K. ever get into a nuclear showdown if Turkey did something rash and ended up in a shooting war with Russia.

Because especially for the Nuclear powers NATO membership has very significant meaning indeed.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathans
Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

I did not see that China was trying to pull Europe and UK away from the USA or that this was once a possibility. Why do you have that observation? The UK has always been a strong military and diplomatic ally of the US, and would not be deterred by Chinese actions. I fully agree that the US shows less kinship back towards the UK by meddling in our politics and refusing a trade deal under the Obama, Trump and Biden administrations – and Biden seems to be anti-British in a bizarre way thinking it strengthens his ‘Irishness’. Very good… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

I’m talking of Cameron and his golden era policy towards China. The US is an important military partner but not an economic one. The US market is relatively closed.

China is very keen to use trade as a weapon it’s not working in Europe anymore but it works very well in Asia.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Before xi Jin ping China wasn’t trying to be the bad guy like they are now. A lot has changed in his era for the worse. Now that his 2 terms are up we see he’s not going to give up on power and will change the Chinese system to suit his needs. The Chinese population has been down trodden on from the government for decades and a revolution from the inside is very unlikely. As the surveillance state gets mor powerful a change from the communist party becomes less likely. I do not think China wants war other than… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

China wants to solve is Malacca problem. I would see them being keen to control everything from Singapore in the South to east Siberia in the North. However under an autocratic state who knows. The country is at the whims of any single leader. Fortunately there demographic collapse will make it increasingly difficult for them to be belligerent. It’s 50.50 if they will ever over take the US in absolute terms economically. But as with the Soviet Union in the 70’s this does not have to stop them outspending the USA militarily. (Easy to forget for much of the Cold… Read more »

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Wonder whether Xi Jin Ping owns a copy of the board game ‘Risk’? 🤔😳😉

Klonkie
Klonkie
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

yeah- probably with loaded dice!🤓

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Klonkie

🤣😂😁👍

Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

He owns a bootleg copy.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Jon

👍👍

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  Jon

Who do you think makes all the plastic bits.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

Putin does for sure along with Peter Zeihan , I think it’s where they all get their understanding of Geo politics. 19th century nonsense.

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

Australia always wins in the end.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

ChiCom philosophy, “What is mine is mine, and your’s is negotiable.” 🤔😳😉

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

or…”what is your’s is negotiable.”

Jacko
Jacko
1 year ago

Cue the usual comments about our carrier having no aircraft🙄

Geoff Roach
Geoff Roach
1 year ago
Reply to  Jacko

heaven forbid such a thing😍

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
1 year ago
Reply to  Jacko

She currently has 20 aircraft on-board 😉

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

You are spiking the negative narrative with facts…..

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago

👍🇬🇧 People fail to understand the capability available in that airwing. 8 F35B’s could achieve more than double that number of Super Hornet’s. Much more survivable, far more deadly, requires far less support from other allied aircraft, and increases the capability of the assets the F35 is operating alongside with. And Merlin is still an awesome machine in the role its operating in. And as we have said many times…….much more is still to come. 👍

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

👍

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

F35 has a 20 to 1 kill ratio against F15 so god knows what it could do to F18.

When UK F35B gets Meteor and ASRAAM it will probably be the worlds most deadly fighter and with SPEAR the most deadly attack aircraft.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Very much so. We often forget we have gained an aircraft with excellent A2A capability compared to the self
defence sidewinder capability of the Harrier GR7 and Tornado GR4 before it. Tornado GR4 did receive ASRAAM in it’s final few years before sombody picks me up. 😄

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Also with approximately

twice the speed; and
twice the payload; and
twice the range; and

an electronics systems that is on another plant to what was in the Harrier.

Cue why didn’t owe keep the Harrier in service comments? Because that was the original idea until RN/RAF got to test out the F35B and then realised that it was on another planet to Harrier.

However, gaping the capability was stupid as it lead to a loss of expertise and critical mass.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago

Agreed. I believe the original out of service date for the Harrier GR7/9 was 2018. We could then have transitioned to F35 from there with probably less headaches, certainly from a man power point. We started sending RN engineers over to the US back in 2012 to learn on F35, but those guys have probably left the service now.

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Well then you might want to get on with it cuz it’s taking a hell of a long time. It will soon be eclipse by the world beating tempest..

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Tempest is still a CAD drawing on an engineers computer. Hopefully it will be world class, but it’s a long way from entering service. A demonstrator hasn’t flown yet, let alone a prototype.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Tempest appears to be moving along quite nicely at present.

ROYAL AIR FORCE NEWS

18 Jul 2022

“UK builds momentum on combat air programme with demonstrator set to fly within five years”

https://www.raf.mod.uk/what-we-do/team-tempest/news/uk-builds-momentum-on-combat-air-programme-with-demonstrator-set-to-fly-within-five-years/

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

It’s not us that’s the problem but Lockheed Martin and the USA DOD trying to get priority on block IV role outs.

Japan and the UK are already developing next generation air to air weapons so no doubt Meteor and ASRAAM will be day one fits.

Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Wallace announced that the target integration date for Meteor has been moved forward to 2025 again, after it had slipped to 2027. (I hope that includes JNAAM and we don’t have to go through it all again.)

Posse Comitatus
Posse Comitatus
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Yawn…..

Is there not some MAGA rally somewhere that you should be at, shrieking and beating your chest ?

grizzler
grizzler
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

when…..

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Indeed, but because it cannot out turn an F16s it’s a dead duck according to many…the fact you would need a couple of squadrons of f16s to even get to Snowballs chance to engage an F35 in a turning engagement floats right past….. a change in the generational tech means you cannot measure the last generation in the way you measure new generation….the first iron frigates with exploding shells had less guns that a wooden 3rd to 1st rate wooden vessel, were smaller and yet the moment those frigates became operational every wooden sail of the line simply became unable… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathans

Getting in to a turning fight against an F35 with a helmet mounted site and the ability to fire weapons like ASRAAM off bore would be a very bad idea.

This is how F22 were loosing to Eurofighters.

Much the same argument was made about biplanes and mono planes in the 1930’s and those bi plane pilots soon found out that speed is life and manoeuvrability is a secondary concern.

simon alexander
simon alexander
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

🙂

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Source please?

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Source for what?

Jonathans
Jonathans
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Stop talking sense.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathans

😆

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jacko

God dam it, I won’t be happy until 75 aircraft are on board and it takes the flight deck to be shut for 4 hours to move an aircraft to hanger.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Now you are talking. Pack’em’in tight like sardines mind…..😂

I think people have watched too many WWII movies with deck crew wheeling planes out with their shoulders around very crowded decks. They don’t realise how hard it is to manoeuvre heavy £80m planes around in a tight space whilst the deck is moving around because that thing called the sea that the carrier operate on.

Recreating the logistics nightmare that was the Invincible Class hangar system was not high on the agenda when QEC was being thought up.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago

Ah yes, the Invincible class hangar. Move 4 aircraft to get one out to move onto the aircraft lift and up on deck. Nightmare at times 🤦

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago

Ah yes, the Invincible class hangar. Move 4 aircraft to get one out to move onto the aircraft lift and up on deck. Nightmare at times.

David Barry
David Barry
1 year ago

Could just be me, but I only counted 4! Hmm.

Brom
Brom
1 year ago
Reply to  David Barry

Ford, Bush, Elizabeth, de Gaulle and Cavour. That’s five

David Barry
David Barry
1 year ago
Reply to  Brom

My bad, it was a bullet point list but with Cavour tacked on to the French notice – now I understand.

Iain
Iain
1 year ago
Reply to  David Barry

Old photograph. That may well date back to early sea trials if that’s the USS George H W Bush.

Simon
Simon
1 year ago
Reply to  David Barry

Uss ford and uss bush hms queen Elizabeth then the French carrier and Italian carrier. That’s 5.

SteveP
SteveP
1 year ago

Does anyone know if Cavour is carrying F35’s yet?

Stephen Davis
Stephen Davis
1 year ago
Reply to  SteveP

Work and trials complete. IOC expected some time in 2024.

Stephen Davis
Stephen Davis
1 year ago
Reply to  Stephen Davis

Trieste, expected to commission next year, will also be able to operate F35B.

AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago
Reply to  SteveP

For now up to 2 F-35 and the others are Harriers.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 year ago

Sunaks in Ukraine, announced another £50m defence package. It includes dozens of air defence radars, drone jammers tailored to the Iranian threat (as these arent radio controlled possibly microwave weapons or GPS spoofers? Iranian suicide drones switch to backup inertia guidance if they detect they are being spoofed) and 125 AA guns. Im not really sure what the AA gun would be, its too cheap for a ship based CWIS system.

Last edited 1 year ago by Watcherzero
Trevor G
Trevor G
1 year ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

What happened to all the Bofors 40mm mounts that used to be all over RN ships?

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor G

Yes I was thinking that with a radar target locator would be the most likely but I wasnt aware of any still being around, I mean if the RN had any they must have been in storage since the 60’s, possibly some could have come from foreign countries that used them longer.

Trevor G
Trevor G
1 year ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Can’t think of anything else, other than possibly 20mm Oerlikons that we would have 125 of? And they surely cant be talking about lighter guns such as good ol’ 50cal…

AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor G

RN hated guns between 1960 and new Type 31…

So those Bofors were sold or went to the breakers.

Frank62
Frank62
1 year ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

I wondered where we got 125 AA guns from seeing that only our navy uses AA guns & the army relies on SAMs.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

I’m going to guess the uk has got AA guns from a 3rd country and passed them on. The uk seems to be doing ok at sourcing stuff.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Looks like they were talking reconstruction
At the meeting, Sunak and Zelensky also touched upon “reconstruction plans” for Ukraine after the end of the conflict. They identified eight construction projects to be funded by the UK. Among them are six bridges and two housing projects for several thousand residents, including in Bucha outside Kiev.

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

They will all be moving to the UK and you can build them new houses there.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Ukrainian builders are welcome to come and help deal with the uk housing shortage. There’s some empty land near where I stay. It would be perfect to make some towns for Ukrainians to stay in. When the conflict is over and some return home Then the houses can be given to people who need them in the uk. It’s a win win for everyone.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

In addition I was thinking about these empty housing estates that are in European countries ( I’ve seen the ones in Spain) they would be great for getting housing online quickly for people in need.

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

I’m detecting Esteban is not a happy camper, personally I will take all the Ukrainians we can get. They are just what the UK needs.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

I’m yet to see a post where they are happy.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

They can some and work for me if they have any reconginsable building skills or can just do old fashioned hard work!

There is a massive shortage of hard working construction types.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

No problems with us, what’s up, don’t you like Ukrainians either?

Deep32
Deep32
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

I don’t even think he likes himself!! He appears tp have a slightly large chip on his shoulder, thought at first maybe th size of Mt Everest, then dismissed that, its much bigger, like the Himalayas!!!

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Deep32

That chip involves coming home one morning from checking charity bins for clothes, to find a British Army squaddie sat at his breakfast table, with his dressing gown on, being served a cooked breakfast by his missus, who happened to be looking a little tired and worn out! That would affect most people mate, but most certainly a handbag like Esteban!

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

😂🤣😂😂

Deep32
Deep32
1 year ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Perhaps they have managed to procure some more Ex German/Dutch Gepard systems? Back in the day, both the German and Dutch had quite a few such systems, only a guess mind.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Deep32

It is a reasonable one as it goes….in the total absence of any hard data….

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Deep32

By all accounts Forces news have said the Ukrainians love the Gepard system and it’s ability to pick up, at distance, even small drones. Far superior to the Russian systems both they and the rapists orc squads have!

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 year ago

OT but does anyone know what the AA guns are that we are supplying?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-volodymyr-zelensky-ukraine-b2228689.html

Paul T
Paul T
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul.P

See above ^^

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 year ago

Japan still advancing nicely towards formally joining Tempest.

Japan, Britain, Italy moving forward on fighter jet project | The Asahi Shimbun: Breaking News, Japan News and Analysis

(website seems to occasionally 404 the article, just try refreshing a couple of times)

Last edited 1 year ago by Watcherzero
BigH1979
BigH1979
1 year ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

This aircraft could have so much going for it… Japanese tech and reliability, Italian style and elan and British aggression and ingenuity. Lets get it signed!

Trevor
Trevor
1 year ago
Reply to  BigH1979

I get it… sort of like a HiLux, driven by Capt. Bertorelli, with a bunch of squaddies armed with Starstreak in the back?

AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor

Alo!

BigH1979
BigH1979
1 year ago
Reply to  Trevor

Yes!! As opposed to the Euro one consisting of a wheezing 2CV pushed along by an exasperated Manuel whilst not talking about the war in case they upset General Von Klinkerhoffen.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  BigH1979

😂👍

BigH1979
BigH1979
1 year ago
Reply to  BigH1979

Although to be fair its probably best to keep quiet about the war with our 2 partners too!! 😂😂

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  BigH1979

Agreed mate!

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago

OT but I’m intrigued what these 250 anti aircraft guns are that Sunak has promised?

I’d totally agree that radar directed 40mm would be more than adequate for dealing with 90% of the threats the Ukranians face.

It would be the sensible thing to save the precious missile stocks?

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago

Hi SB,
My guess is ZSU 23-4 or the ground mounted 23-2 version rescued from form Warsaw Pact countries…
Also, didn’t the Warsaw Apct use a 57mm gu as well..?
Just a complete guess based on past deals.
Cheers CR

Last edited 1 year ago by ChariotRider
Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

I wonder how useful they would be.

Unless Poland modded some with a basic computerised radar and these were what was being donated?

That said against the Iranian model dying club almost anything would do the trick.

Given the announcement of Iranian tech transfer (quite a joke in itself) then I’m expecting howls of pain from modellers the world over as there is a shortage of state of the art Chinese model jet engines!

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago

In their day the ZSU series were considered to be pretty potent. My guess is that they’ll be more than capable of dealing with Iranian drones as I doubt very much that the drones could take avoiding action. Also, 125 systems suggests point defence to me, so perhaps they’ll be parked next to power stations. The problem is that Ukraine is pretty flat seeing how it is mostly on the Steppe. That obviously means no or very few terrain choke points that can be exploited to engage low flying drones so you have little choice but to go for point… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

I was referring to the modellers jet engines that appear to ‘power’ these things.

Although these have disappeared off eBay recently……wonder why?

Other than that a V1 with a TomTom on the front would be infinitely more sophisticated: it is about 3x faster and the payload is about 10-20x as much. Although it would take real engineering skills to make those.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Mate in its day the Warsaw Pact were deemed quite potent! Putin has shown how wrong we all were for a very long time!!!!!! 😂👍

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Yep they were a bad ass weapon in the Yom Kippur war…. 50 years ago.

TonyB
TonyB
1 year ago

Interesting article on Navy Lookout about a visit to the USS Gerald R. Ford, when moored in the Solent.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago
Reply to  TonyB

Yeh, nice article. I noted that the Ford is not due to be able to fly the F35C until 2025.

Cheers CR

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

I did wonder about that. I saw some pics and video and did think I can see all the usual aircraft except F35C. Your comment explains that nicely.
I saw the catapult running. It seems smooth on launching and the obvious lack of steam coming from it. I have to say steam just makes everything look more exciting.

simon alexander
simon alexander
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

MS the electric cat is eye watering price, landings and take off look softer though. F35c are prioritized for the pacific fleet

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Don’t be crazy, as you are well aware only the UK has issues when it comes to introducing new carriers. No way a “proper” carrier like the Ford could have problems and clearly a “proper” carrier with 36 F18 on board is more than a match from a ski jump carrier with 8 5th generation planes on aboard. Unless you believe those crazy Red flag exercises when the F35 has a 20 to 1 kill ratio or the USMC ones where it’s like 35 to 1. The F35B capability is in no way the reason the US has removed a… Read more »

OkamsRazor
OkamsRazor
1 year ago
Reply to  TonyB

Interesting article, but it amuses me that the $13bn “cost” is still quoted, anyone following the Ford saga will be aware that $13bn is when they stopped counting. Add $5bn to that and you would be nearing the mark.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  OkamsRazor

Yes when things get to expensive just stop counting. 😂😂😂

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  OkamsRazor

We call it ‘creative accounting.’. No problems until audited.

Richard Beedall
Richard Beedall
1 year ago

Five NATO carriers deployed in Europe to show ‘resolve’. Mmmm. Lets be realistic here – USS George H W Bush is indeed seriously scary; USS Gerald R Ford is on her first cruise and the reliability of key kit is still not good; FNS Charles de Gaulle is a respectable force if she is carrying her full air group of 24 Rafale’s + 2 Hawkeye’s; HMS Queen Elizabeth barely counts as a CSG with just 8 F-35B’s; similarly ITS Cavour as she usually embarks just 8 Harriers II’s (maybe 1 or 2 F-35B’s).

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

You seem not to know much about aircraft. Would you like us to teach you?

Richard Beedall
Richard Beedall
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Please do – I’m always delighted to learn.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Robert and I did the F35B write up above. In a combat situation they would all have different roles anyway. QEC would take on USMC aircraft, it has an American Eyes Only comms area a built into it for that purpose. With 24-36 F35B onboard it would be a massive force that nobody in the European theatre could take on. The Russians – don’t make me laugh. Their Granite missiles are a joke. What are they going to send, some antique airplanes (Bear?) armed with missiles that even the Ukrainians have got good at shooting down and that we now… Read more »

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago

We just please stop with the US Marines are going to supply the aircraft for your aircraft carrier. Yeah they will cross deck when this convenient. When the US really needs their own aircraft you will have nothing. This is a UK thing that some people on here keep spouting but yet no one in the US has ever seemed to hear about. It’s kind of a fantasy thing for the UK. And the lack of AEW really is crushing. And them the fact that there are not nearly enough helicopters for anything in the RN is a teensy issue.… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Who are the UK going to fight who can compete with 8 Gen5 aircraft? As @Airbourne says below more could fly out if needed as we have the planes at Mareham. I can’t think if anyone. Can you? We are not going to go to war with Russia or China by ourselves and everyone else with a decent airforce is in NATO. I will keep taking about the USMC thing on here to remind people that is the agreed RN/USN/USMC plan. If there was a big NATO deployment the QEC’s would be used by combined alliance forces as would a… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

How goes the MAGA movement?

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Given any advance notice of hostilities commencing, USMC will provide aircraft to complete quorum of F-35Bs for QE class. Perhaps of some concern, who and what supplies robust AEW coverage? Crowsnest will be functional, but will remain a nagging concern for senior leadership in both navies. QE class may be paired w/ an LPD for troopship/supply convoy duty w/ E-7s and P-8s attempting to bridge coverage gaps from both sides of Pond. If CVNs available, there should be no problems; the boys will simply work a little harder for their pay.

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

LPD/LPH…E-3s/E-7s (covering all the bases)…

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Richard the 8 x F35s are 5th gen, and another 8 at least can be flown quite easily (surprising eh as it’s an aircraft) to reinforce what is in effect a training and show of force moment in time! Rafale and Harrier aren’t 5th gen, capable yes, but a generation behind on regard to capability! But, it’s easy to be negative when you have an agenda to push! Please name me ANY other European country, or even worldwide, aside from the US who can put together a CBG utilising 5th gen platforms on a modern carrier which have at least… Read more »

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

And reading a previous post by you on the same deployment you state 8 x F35 seem a decent number! Have you changed your mind?

Richard Beedall
Richard Beedall
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Embarking 8 of the 12 a/c from the UK’s only operational F-35B squadron is a decent effort. Perhaps enough to maintain 2 a/c at Alert 5 for air defence, whilst launching the occasional 4 a/c strike package. But it’s hardly comparable to a USN carrier, or even the French Charles de Gaulle. Regarding another 8 F-35B’s quickly flying out to Lizzy, that is a big ask. 1. It will be hard to find another 8 a/c at the operational Block3/TR2 standard. I guesstimate that the UK has about 20 – but some are still in the USA and others in maintenance. But it might… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Richard Beedall
Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

No one will ever compare their carrier groups to a USN one, so that’s a little bit of an unfair comparison mate. As for the CDG, again routinely they don’t carry 24 Rafale Ms, indeed it took them a while to get the M variants to fill the deck, as up until not long ago they were still flying Etendards. As for a surge capability, as I’m sure you are aware, if needed and if peacetime restrictions for maintenance schedules etc are pushed to one side, getting the 8, plus change on board will be do-able! It’s a platform, and… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago

Alert 5, you been watching too many top gun movies. Is that your basis for military comparisons. 😀 Why do you compare the potential air group sizes for other carriers verse the number of aircraft on the QE at the current moment? Why do you think this is a fair assessment? Operating F35B means that virtually all our aircraft can be deployed to a carrier when needed. For CATOBAR carriers you need specialised aircraft and up to a 6 month work up for carrier qualification. Do you understand the difference in the methodology and the benefits? I know it does… Read more »

Richard Beedall
Richard Beedall
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Sadly the RN/FAA has had to adopt USN/USMC procedures and terminology. E.g. the waving of the green launch flag by a flight deck officer has been replaced by the “shoot” hand gesture. It was an inevitable result of the long gap in RN/FAA fixed wing carrier ops, where core skills could only be maintained by seconding a few dozen personnel to the USA and France – the later being rarely recognised. The debate over whether the UK should have gone the CATOBAR or STOVL route for CVF, and purchased F/A-18E/F’s, F-35B’s or F-35C’s has been so intensively discussed over the… Read more »

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
1 year ago

Even slobbering Orcs are able to count to five, and understand the significance thereof.

Leonidas
Leonidas
1 year ago

If these five were up in the Norwegian Sea, the Russians would be as ampped-up as they were during “Able Archer ’83.”