NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg emphasised the importance of providing security guarantees for Ukraine during a meeting of NATO Foreign Ministers in Oslo City Hall on Thursday, 1 June 2023.
Stoltenberg stated that the focus was on stepping up and sustaining NATO’s support for Ukraine, in preparation for the upcoming Vilnius Summit.
“All Allies agree that Ukraine will become a member of the Alliance,” said Stoltenberg, dismissing the idea of Moscow having a veto against NATO enlargement. He further expressed that, “most importantly, all Allies agree that the most urgent and important task now is to ensure that Ukraine prevails as a sovereign independent nation.”
Stoltenberg underlined the need for preventing future Russian aggression against Ukraine. “We need to ensure that history doesn’t repeat itself, that this pattern of Russian aggression against Ukraine really stops. And therefore, we need to have in place frameworks to provide guarantees for Ukrainian security after the end of the war,” he emphasised.
The Secretary General also noted that the Alliance would be discussing bolstering deterrence and defence, building on the significant adaptation of NATO since 2014. This process would entail increasing defence spending among Allies. He highlighted his expectation that by the time of the Vilnius Summit, the allocated 2% of GDP for defence would be considered as a minimum obligation rather than a maximum limit among Allied nations.
NATO’s partnerships with Indo-Pacific nations such as Australia, Japan, New Zealand, and South Korea, as well as the strong support for Sweden’s accession to NATO, were also part of the agenda. Stoltenberg announced that he would be visiting Ankara soon to expedite Sweden’s accession to the Alliance.
Need to step and get this finished well ahead of the US Presidential election. A framework is all well and good, but fast action is required if Ukraine is to regain its territory. If a Republican wins then all bets are off.
The US has so far spent something like $120bn on aid, although much of it is the estimated value of equipment from storage. It’s fair to say though that many Republicans do not see the war as America’s problem.
Will Europe step up and fill the void? Question is are they/we capable of doing so.
The idiocy of the Republican Party never sees to amaze, happy to spend trillions and thousands of troops lives in the Middle East, that was ultimately pointless. But, spend a few billion to take Russia off the chessboard, not our issue. Maybe it just shows how many of them are in Putin’s pocket.
Not so sure about Afghanistan but Iraq and Libya were strategically vital to the US due to the incredible value of the Petro$. Both latter countries, the management of which was perfectly acceptable to the US until they started to sell oil/gas in gold, Euro etc. That crossed the US Rubicon at that point and were destroyed to the point where they would not present a threat again.
The US was doing really well in Russia during the 1990s but let Russia slip through its hands when Putin came to power.
The stronger view in the US, that I read, is that Russian influence is pretty minimal, it is the Chinese that are the dominant external power in the influence stakes. Its down to money and the Chinese have it in Spades.
JIMK wrote:
“”Not so sure about Afghanistan but Iraq and Libya were strategically vital to the US due to the incredible value of the Petro$. Both latter countries, the management of which was perfectly acceptable to the US until they started to sell oil/gas in gold, Euro etc. That crossed the US Rubicon at that point and were destroyed to the point where they would not present a threat again.””
You don’t half peddle some tosh: here are a few other examples of the misinformation you muddy these boards up with:
As to infantry gear, given that apart from in urban warfare the days of infantrymen firing at each other seem quite rare, superior optics aren’t much good against large volumes of incoming mortar and artillery shells as per the battles in the east. Russia didn’t get cocky as you put it, they were backed into a corner with the unacceptable risk of Ukraine in NATO with probably an AEGIS Ashore installation as per Poland and Romania capped by Zelinsky threatening to get nuclear weapons.
I would hazard a guess, given that there were no confirmed reports of explosions that night, that the dam failed due to previously inflicted damage. This compounded by extra water being released over the past few weeks from two upstream dams that was not released in turn from the Kakhova Dam due to HIMARS damaged sluice gates at the end of last year. The resulting unusually high water level putting huge pressure on it resulting in the inevitable.
The timing was fortuitous for the Ukrainians as it buried all stories on their military actions of the past few days.
Its as if you are nothing more than a fat Russian bloke (with purple hair) working out of a basement in downtown Moscow pushing out misinformation on an industrial basis with an agenda of throwing enough mud so some sticks. I’m all for listening to both sides of any story, but you me old cock sparra take the biscuit.
Thanks for going to the trouble of creating that collection of my posts. I stand by it all apart from my guess re the dam. It was blown up, earthquake monitoring systems in Romania and Norway picked it up, both registering the same time when corrected for distance. Who lit the blue touch paper is still a guess.
Sunak, when interviewed by ITN yesterday in Washington, refused to answer the question of did Russia do it, replying that it was under investigation. I don’t know if he has answered that question since.
Both Ukraine and Russia know who did and, given the depth of US multi spectrum satellite monitoring, there must be a very good chance that they do as well.
I would suggest that the longer it takes for the US to make an official statement (if they do) the more likely it is that they are relying on the Court of Public Opinion to establish that Russia did it.
Oh, I have a BMI of 24.3 and white hair and the view up my lawn to the Grand Union (think it might be Junction) canal is rather pleasant now the clouds have finally gone.
Yaaaawn, how about condemning this illegal invasion by Putin of Ukraine while you’re looking up at the grand union canal? It’s easy, don’t be scared, unless of course, as we all say your not allowed to!
I do think that is the US right wing’s view, what they don’t seem to understand is the intimate links between the two despite them actually telling the World exactly what they intend while leaving out much of the detail however, even though we see it in Ukraine. It’s very convenient to China to impose its economic hegemony while using its attack dog to carry out the peripheral violent stuff. The link is vital to future plans but sadly much of America has and likely never will understand the basics let alone the underlying complexities of how geography and economic power and influence works over time, let alone the further underlying violence real or implied involved. Might be worth them learning more about the historical development of the British Empire to get an idea of how it all plays out, or indeed the Russian Empire hey even their own continental expansion is a pretty good hint, though unfortunately they rewrote that to suit the narrative.
Interesting comment on empires. Financial control in them is critical, in particular the value of the currency. The Roman and US Empires share the same slippery slope of currency debasement, the Romans by reducing its silver content, the US with uncontrolled expansion, so called printing. We never did that as throughout most of the time there was a British Empire, Sterling was tied to a gold standard. Other factors did us in but it looks like the US will follow the path of the Romans. To call effectively the USSR a Russian ‘Empire’ is probably gilding the lily somewhat.
Just perhaps Republicans believe that it’s more important to secure the US borders (Southern and Northern) from hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and overwhelming its social services than defending a totally corrupt country over 6,000 miles from the West Coast of the United States when the countries directly involved have a combined GDP equivalent to that of the US and 100 million more citizens. Not to mention the US having the primary responsibility for defending the Pacific democracies from a predatory Communist power. Oh, and a $1.4 trillion budget deficit in FY2023.
Yeah, Vladimir Putin bribed them to think that way.
Daniel I suggest you stop drinking the MAGA cool aid so hard. It’s really not good for you. Becasue, if you believe Canada is more of a threat than Russia, then something is quite wrong.
He does express how Americans don’t see how linked we all are now, a certain irony compared to their former domino foreign policy back in the fifties. It’s interesting how Chinas representative toured Europe a few weeks back peddling the idea of stop supporting Ukraine and in exchange forming powerful economic links to China to replace those it currently has with the US. It seems the text hadn’t changed from that they expected to deliver when as they believed Russia had crushed Ukraine and Moldova and Europe was left in fear and traumatised with a prospective Trumpist US regime on the horizon that they might actually fall for it. The fact they were still thinking it might work in light of the disastrous failure of that project, just shows Chinese arrogance and one eyed forward projection of its power and influence and indeed expectations. If the Republicans only see danger from China then really they need to wake up and see how that power is being projected through Russia as its useful idiot while it happily concentrates on its economic hegemony. If the US loses Europe it is as good as finished, only the timing is to be decided, the greatest battles are usually won through diversionary tactics not frontal assaults, fooling others into doing so for you however to weaken your foes and the useful idiots themselves doing your bidding does pay longer term dividends however.
They are just deluded enough to think the US can live in a bubble. How they think the US economy can survive let alone make America great again as the rest of the World turns to China willingly or under economic and military threat (which is what using Russia as its attack dog is all about) is anyone’s guess. The naivety is beyond rational comprehension reminiscent of the Little Englander syndrome. It’s pre Isley this stupidity that has allowed Putin out of his kennel sadly.
Roughly half that aid is financial, the digital equivalent of pallets of $100 notes, that Kiev uses to pay most of its bills, pensions, civil/military pay etc as its tax revenues have fallen like a stone. Given that the US is ‘printing’ them out of thin air. just adding to the ginormous debt pile and Europe cannot do the same, it is highly likely that if the US stops that flow Ukraine will collapse as there is no other potential source of finance.
On the military side it is similar, available stocks across Europe are running low, again if the US stops supply, Ukraine cannot continue.
Ukraine is a country fighting way beyond its means and by the look of it, its abilities. On the front lines they fight hard but they don’t have the tools, like air cover.
The Ukrainian Zaporozhe offensive targeting Tokmak, now in its 4th day, looks as if it could be the famous counter offensive as very large numbers are involved including Leopard 2. The results so far do not look good for them but it is early days. I suspect that we are about to see just which is the superior military.
16 months later into it’s invasion and stuck barely 40 miles beyond its borders, with over 200 000 casualties and thousands of equipment lost and not replaced, I think there’s one side that’s definitely fighting beyond its means and ability, and it’s not Ukraine.
Be it cockiness, arrogance or delusion you certainly are amusing… well for about 5 minutes. Seriously trying to back the Russian military as superior after all this time or disaster after disaster is really some tough sell, they must be paying you well.
Ukraine’s counter-offensive, in just trying to regain it’s own territory mind, is certainly an unenviable task for any Sovereign State in her position to contemplate.
The point about the lack of aircover, in particular, being of great concern:- I still feel that there’s a place for light attack aircraft e.g. Wolverine & Tucano, for their relative simplicity – i.e. versus a/c like Viper or even A10 – coupled with their tolerance of rough field landing sites, etc. The good enough being acceptable over the sometime future-exquisite, when faced with an existential threat and thus no choice.
But fifteen months back the expectation was a prompt defeat for Ukraine.
I must say I would like you to clearly express your sympathy & good wishes for that benighted country’s plight, unless I’ve previously missed same? in which case my apology.
For the removal of any such doubt, perhaps a clarification in CAPITALS would suffice for now.
Rgs
Of course I feel sympathy for the population of Ukraine and wish them well. But, like any country, the population has very little say in what their leadership actually does.
You will be aware that Zelinsky was voted into power on a promise of doing a deal with the Russians, the population clearly fed up with what was in effect, but not called, a civil war, that started in 2014. His intent only lasted as long as his first trip to the front lines in Donbas where he got a very rude awakening when the leaders of the Right Sector refused to obey. Since as in virtually any organisation it is the active militants who are the tail wagging the dog, we are where we are today, driven by a rabid hatred of Russians (a Ukrainian speaking Russian is a Russian that needs to be eliminated) that I suspect few here can get their head around.
As to your light attack aircraft comment, would they do any better than helicopters?
Not at all, many of us with direct combat experience, subject matter knowledge and those on here who’s level of research knowledge is stupendous, understand the big picture and fully aware of politics but are in total agreement that this war is an illegal war, started by Putin, and which is being run very badly by that Nazi and his Russian cluster fuck of a head shed group! Nothing to do with a rabid hatred of Russians! In fact you are quite vocal and positive on your support for this Russian invasion and still, after all the is time refuse to condemn it! That alone confirms your position.
And the fact you cannot even type “Putin is a tosser” is in fact a very good indicator of your cowardly agenda! And if you reply do make it relevant and do t go off on a mission of misdirection, misinformation and whinging!
You’re referring to 2019? Seems there is dispute about that. Like the irony of ‘But, like any country, the population has very little say in what their leadership actually does’, as good to see evidence of a sense of humour when comparing UKR to RUS. For my part, I’d say that, if allowed to mature further along democratic lines, Ukraine has a greater chance of achieving transparency.
Very few are in any doubt about the tendency for elected representatives, particularly Russian schooled but also here or elsewhere – to interpret our vote as a carte blanche for their own advancement. Hell, I’ve droned on about that – the magic ‘x’ – until some must be sick to the teeth. Still, invasion is rarely an option that most folk will tolerate as an alternative to imperfections in the political process. and there are a few Ukrainians with their cards well and truly marked by the generic West for the future.
Light Attack? I soon got the feel of prop-driven aircraft out of Tangmere, never helicopters in simulators though. Sure, there’s still the systems, but the learning curve seems a great deal shorter – especially for trained pilots to start with (very, WW2).
Excuse mental timewarp. For Tangmere read Goodwood nee Westhampnett. Too WW2. Rgs
More guff! How about condemning the illegal invasion and calling for a full Russian withdrawal to pre 2014 locations? That’s a no then…..
Except that Europe will not allow the Ukrainian military to collapse with or without the assistance of the United States. I see regional military intervention in the next 2 to 3 months.
Europe has supplied huge amounts of military aid – weapons, ammunition and training – especially the UK – as I am sure you know. Is the issue that we should supply hugely more kit if the US cease to do so? Or is the point broader than that?
It has indeed, but without the US these donations would need to be stepped up considerably and include systems that could replace what the US has donated. I’m thinking anti-air in particular.
The US has also given huge amounts of money.
If Trump gets back in who knows what will happen. He is rather unpredictable. If he did pull the plug then all what happens? Poland may well move into Ukraine for a start.
Yes Poland the UK and even Germany will move into Ukraine. The security of Europe and indeed the world depends on stopping Putin in Ukraine.
That figures of $120 billion is for Team America.
The real figure is $75 billion in freedom units.
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts
Interesting to see the US increasing its defence budget to 3.3%.
Pentagon budget 2024: Congress backs 3.3% defence increase
06 JUNE 2023
“The US Congress has approved a budget outline that will provide USD886 billion for defence in fiscal year (FY) 2024, which is the same as President Joe Biden’s request and up USD28 billion or 3.3% from the FY 2023 enacted level.”
LINK
Sky News
NATO countries may end up sending troops to Ukraine – reports
“Some NATO countries may be willing to send troops to Ukraine if other member states do not provide security guarantees to Kyiv, a former secretary general of the military alliance has said.
Anders Rasmussen was quoted by The Guardian as saying there is a “clear possibility” that NATO states could take action individually if the group cannot decide on a path forward for Ukraine.
“We know that Poland is very engaged in providing concrete assistance to Ukraine. And I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that Poland would engage even stronger in this context on a national basis and be followed by the Baltic States, maybe including the possibility of troops on the ground,” he said.
“We shouldn’t underestimate the Polish feelings, the Poles feel that for too long Western Europe did not listen to their warnings against the true Russian mentality.”
NATO members have steered clear of putting boots on the ground in Ukraine or imposing a no-fly zone over the country as it would bring Russia into direct conflict with their forces.
Instead, they have provided billions in financial, humanitarian and military aid since the war broke out.”
I’m not sure Rasmussen’s speculation is helpful or insightful. Poland has every reason to hate and distrust Russia but would they really (possibly alone) send troops into Ukraine?
Graham I do not know the answer to your question, but judging by the hatred I witnessed between two young females in an office I would not rule it out. The Polish woman involved was post cold war born in case you wonder, as was the Russian.
Polish pilots on training flights during WW11 disobeyed orders when they saw the Luftwaffe and got stuck in.
They seem to have a different mentality to ours and I make them right.
Fck’ing about never gets the job done or the message across and look where we are now.
Delaying CAP over Ukraine at the start of the war is a prime example of this.
Nigel wrote:
“”Polish pilots on training flights during WW11 disobeyed orders when they saw the Luftwaffe and got stuck in.””
Repeat Please
Silence in Polish 😂
What next?
“Russian and Chinese strategic bombers concluded a major joint patrol with fighter aircraft over the Sea of Japan (East Sea), the East China Sea, and the Philippine Sea.
According to information published by the Japan Ministry of Defense (MoD), several Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) fighter aircraft participated in the joint air patrol at various legs of the operation.
The joint patrol was split into two phases, according to the Japan MoD. Phase one of the patrol was conducted on 6 June. During this phase, two Xi’an Aircraft Company (XAC) H-6K bombers of the PLA rendezvoused with two Tupolev Tu-95MS bombers of the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) over the Sea of Japan (East Sea), the Japan MoD said.
However, South Korea’s Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) placed the number of aircraft in the joint patrol as four Chinese and four Russian aircraft.”
Yes I read the account of how their trainer tried to get them to return and was totally ignored. One of those pilots went on to be the first Polish Squadron Leader and on his death one of the top aces. No wonder Polish units were at the forefront of kills in the BofB. And of course western Ukraine used to be Polish till the Russians moved borders west so ties are strong though some animosities are too as Ukranians were guilty of killing Poles during the war.
They seem to be upgrading their armed forces at pace.
Delivery of first Wisla MRAD system to Polish Armed Forces completed
08 JUNE 2023
“The first Polish-made Patriot launcher and resupply vehicle delivered by Huta Stalowa Wola was displayed at International Defence Industry Exhibition MSPO 2021.”
Ahem… Josef Frantisek was Czech.
Slovaks are different, but Czechs and Poles surely have one thing in common (they hate each other normally) they hate Russians.
Poles will be tearing at the leash to deliver the good news to the Orcs, given their PARATROOPER President, Czechs won’t be far behind; Slovaks are different.
Does the US see an increasing threat from Russia, China, Iran or North Korea?
I think the answer to your question is the recommended increase in defence spending because of the threats posed by the countries you mention, something we debate on here quite often.
LINK
I for one am glad our American Overlords choose to piss their money up the wall with the military industrial complex instead of investing in infrastructure or solving homelessness.
3.3% of GDP is a very high amount for a country that faces no significant domestic security threats.
It’s even worse when you consider how much they are borrowing to sustain a that spending.
Britain learnt the hard way that no one will thank you when you bankrupt yourself defending others.
And you can’t be a global empire when you owe everyone money.
The Americans have real global interests especially in commerce and protecting these interests require both soft and hard power. Containing authoritarian governments is also an essential element of the US interests. This is preventing third world war from happening by spending more in deterrence- defense. The world benefits from this strategy especially given the current situation in Ukraine and revisionist powers in Asia
Interesting video
Is that not a rather American ‘tache?
David B wrote:
“”Is that not a rather American ‘tache?””
He, does come across as something of an oddball
Where’s the gold, man?
Fantastic film.
The NATO Charter makes clear that security guarantees are the only thing it can offer at the moment. Ukraine is a victim of its own geography and has always been caught up in horrendous conflicts. Most EU countries would wee themselves if Ukraine got full member status for this reason.
That’s true of Poland too mind.
Was true for Prussia and Belgium at different points as well. The line keeps moving east.
Russian apologist!
😉
When do we get to the Pacific? Hoo-ha!
I understand a nation can not have any ongoing border disputes either. Which rules Ukraine out. And Russia know that well enough.