C-130J Hercules aircraft were operating with (not from!) HMS Queen Elizabeth when the aircraft carrier was in Scotland for Exercise Strike Warrior last month.

According to RAF Brize Norton here:

“In recent weeks, personnel from 47 Squadron have taken part in Exercise STRIKE WARRIOR, all around the UK. Integrating all the joint services, the exercise allows multiple force elements to hone their skills in a contested battlespace, whilst developing tactical knowledge across all areas of UK Defence.

This year saw 47 Squadron conduct combined air operations (COMAO) involving airdrop, tactical landing zones, air-land arming and refuelling (ALARP) of RN Merlin helicopters and a chance to operate alongside HMS QUEEN ELIZABETH – itself involved in the exercise for the first time. Outstanding work from all involved – including the myriad units at RAF Brize Norton that enable the mighty C-130J Hercules to do what it does best.”

Image Crown Copyright 2021

Exercise Strike Warrior involved more than 20 warships, three submarines and 150 aircraft from 11 nations and was the final test for the Carrier Strike Group ahead of its first operational deployment to the Mediterranean, Indian Ocean and Asia Pacific.

Image Crown Copyright 2021

Before the exercise, the Ministry of Defence said:

“The exercise, which will run for two weeks, will see the task group pitted against warships from NATO’s Standing Maritime Group 1 in waters off north-west Scotland to prove it is capable of undertaking high intensity operations against the most demanding adversaries. The culmination of Strike Warrior will see the Carrier Strike Group certified ready for deployment, at which point operational command will pass from the Royal Navy’s Fleet Commander, Vice Admiral Jerry Kyd, to the Chief of Joint Operations, Vice Admiral Sir Ben Key.”

Today, HMS Queen Elizabeth is of course operating in the Mediterranean having just met up with the Charles de Gaulle.

According to the Royal Navy:

“HMS Queen Elizabeth has rendezvoused with the French carrier Charles De Gaulle for Exercise Gallic Strike: three days of joint training and engagements in the Western Mediterranean taking place from 1-3 June 2021.

You can read more at the link below.

HMS Queen Elizabeth meets Charles de Gaulle

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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77 COMMENTS

  1. I’m still curious if a C130 with no fuel or stores onboard could land and take off from a QE carrier. I think they can do it on the US Carriers so curious to see if they would have enough of a run off the end of the ski jump.
    Maybe worth a try when they are being decommed just make sure the pilot has some breaking gear.

        • Its been done before on the USS Forrestal aircraft carrier which is slightly bigger than the QE class. The Hercules did a number of trials from the carrier steady building up its take-off weight. They managed to do it without using the extreme short take-off rocket assistance as well. Technically a short bodied Herc should be able to land and stop with room to spare. Take-off using the ramp might be iffy as it would depend on the aircraft’s current weight versus its max power rating.

    • I imagine the ski jump would be the biggest problem, you need an aircraft designed with a high and strong enough undercarriage.

    • I don’t think the wings would clear the aft island on the QEC, not with any margin for error anyway.

      The US carriers have an angled flight deck, even so the C130 might not be able to land on the latest US carriers as the island has been moved further aft closing the flight deck width down somewhat…

      Whilst the USN did test the idea successfully, they though it too risky so they went for the smaller COD (Carrier Onboard Delivery) aircraft. The test pilot was awarded the US Distinguished Flying Cross for the flight (the aircraft was carrying 12tons of suuplies as well!). He earned the medal that day I reckon.

      Cheers CR

      • I’d like to see them attach some JATO rockets to the Hercules and give a carrier launch a try. I’d pay to watch that!

          • Exactly; the Osprey is an impressive aircraft which is pitched as a ( very expensive) Swiss Army knife solution to every problem; COD, IFR, AEW, Special Forces insertion…
            I think a cautious approach is the way to go. Horses for courses.

          • A lot of tasks will in future be carried out by the larger drones operate from Carriers of land bases.
            Special forces deployment maybe they will go for the Ospreys in limited numbers .

          • I certainly see drones for AEW especially if they can be launched and recovered from any escort flight deck. Not convinced about Osprey for special forces. Good speed but Chinook has bigger internal dimensions, significantly bigger troop carrying payload and can more than match Osprey for range I think, especially the latest version we just ordered. In flight refuelling seems to be the toughest nut to crack.

          • Would need a very large drone to carry the AESA radar large enough to be effective. Nothing like that exists now for a carrier launched drone.

          • Understand. That’s on the assumption you deploy a single aircraft/ drone. But suppose it becomes possible to deploy a distributed ‘swarm’ of networked drones whose information pictures can be exchanged or fused. Bit like bees telling each other where the flowers are.

        • Hi Mark,

          Thanks for the link, sounds like a very impressive pilot.

          By the way, we might have sat in the same office. I am disabled and might have sat in front of you when I first joined the office 🙂 . Did you move on to MAN trucks? I was made redundent in 2010.

          Cheers CR

    • Besides the wings hitting the superstructure I’d imagine the noise would smash into the ramp before the noise wheel ever began to clime it.

    • Absolutley no chance whatsoever. Frankly, bordering on insane.

      Landing:
      The aircraft would have to land right at the stern with max possible descent rate (which with any adverse ship motion would break the gear), then stay straight and level for 600+ feet on a rolling and wet deck and hit nothing on the deck (ie be cleared entirely) and have zero capacity for any kind of power or hydraulic failure.

      The runway on CVF is inboard, and so I doubt (and cant be arsed to work out) whether the wingspan would fit without impacting the islands.

      I also doubt the deck is strong enough to take a Herc hitting it and landing speed, let alone away from the designed landing area.

      Noting F35s on SRVL land at the sweet spot for ship motion (as do CV types with arrestor wires).

      Take-Off:
      The ramp would smash the front of the aircraft up due to the aircraft length vs gear location and even if magically it didn’t, the fuselage would snap as the aircraft tried to handle the bending from front and main gears both on the ramp.

      This is before the effect of all of this on anything inside the aircraft.

      The US did it once on a bigger ship in very calm weather with a stripped out C130, that probably had a limited life afterwards.

      Hardly a useful capability and fing dangerous even by the standards of the time. Hence never being repeated.

  2. I still lament the cut of Hercules more than any other asset in this review.
    What a great start for the “Global Response Force” ( a silly pointless rebranding) and an expanded SF and S Ops capability having enabling assets removed and putting everything on 22 Atlas and 8 C17.

    If the UK military is to be more engaged and forward deployed why take it’s delivery assets away? Transport aircraft, ISTAR aircraft/Drones and Helicopters should be growth areas.

    • Even if we are to lose that smaller tactical capability mass is as always a quality in itself so it would have seemed far more like joined up thinking and in keeping with ‘Global Britain’ if we intended to obtain some more Atlas. I’m pretty sure the Germans and Spanish want to flog some of theirs which are good as new as they now want to run much smaller fleets. Could be a bargain!

    • I agree, we have extensive experience with the C130J, and with Marshall’s expertise they could provide valuable services in many areas. A short sighted cut of an existing and recently updated aircraft (new wing box sections)

    • I think we are getting better capabilities with A400M. From the link below –

      “Recent tests were completed in Spain, in collaboration with the UK Royal Air Force parachute test team, to expand up to 25,000 feet (7,600 metres) for automatic parachute opening – and up to 38,000ft (11,582 metres) for free fall.”
       
      “The A400M also completed additional tests to expand its air drop capability … Combat offload of up to 19 tonnes of pallets (one pass) or 25 tonnes (two passes) on paved or unpaved airstrips.”
       
      “The A400M also achieved a new decisive milestone after the certification flights of its Automatic Low Level Flight capability for Instrumental Meteorological Conditions (IMC). Using navigation systems and terrain databases, without the need of a terrain-following radar, this is a first for a military transport aircraft. This makes the aircraft less detectable in hostile areas and less susceptible to threats while conducting operations in hostile environments.”

      https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2021/05/airbus-delivers-the-100th-a400m.html

      • I agree on the capability but I think Daniele is right too about the numbers, too few. Particularly because Boxer will be a two part lift on Atlas.

        Still as Challenger mentioned there are plenty A400 available off the shelf should budget magically become available.

        • Some increase in numbers would be nice, but we can probably say that about a lot of assets. We do have 8x C-17, more by accident than design, so we ended up with a more capable air lift than originally planned before the A400M delays.

          To be honest I’ll be amazed if we fly Boxer anywhere in a hurry if at all, simply because of how much air transport would be needed for timely deployment of a decent sized force, along with the support and other force requirements. It seems every major transport aircraft and armoured vehicle project in Europe and US has started out with a requirement about the need to transport medium armour by air, only for that to be an ever increasing moving target, e.g. is Boxer even “medium” anymore.

          Now if we were talking about a better protected MRV-P solution, say along the lines, costs and mass (25 tonnes) of Jaguar/Griffon, then air lift becomes much more practical.

          • Agreed. Even with just what we have already, it’s still not too shabby in terms of total airlift.

            Worth noting that A400 not only has twice the payload (Vs C130) it’s also nearly twice as fast, so if used for shuttle trips in rotation, it can in theory deliver 3-4 times as much, per airframe hour. And using significantly less personnel and support Vs 3-4 Hercs.

            Does put more eggs in one basket but it’s still technically a big increase in total capacity.

    • Mate as we have said before the hercs going is one of the worst cuts! I’m still wondering what DSF was offered to keep him sweet. Atlas is good but for certain jobs to large and when it comes to it, a herc is more expendable.

      • Morning mate.

        For me, while acknowledging GHF points on the capability and payload of the Atlas, it’s the sheer number of tasks required of the Military by HMG while reducing numbers. Even when we had more aircraft in the RAF AT fleet there were constant competing bids for use of an asset, such an in demand resource they are, before this latest reduction.

        The SFG as you know are the spear tip, even in peacetime, with demands for everything from training oversees to actual ops to the sneaky beaky RRW stuff. They have seemingly dedicated aviation assets as their tasks are no 1 priority.

        Get rid of those assets ( 657 AAC a few years ago too ) and put them in the Atlas force? Fine, so the RAF SFF aircrew move over, the AD Sqn RLC people move over, and it all merges on Atlas. But the SF role is not going to diminish, in fact it’s expanding.

        And now they will take a fair chunk of the 22 Atlas that cannot now be used for other tasks if their carrying out the roles we retained 14 Hercs in 2015 to accomplish.

        We also have 1 Atlas out of the equation down at MPA, another will have to sit at Brize at all times for SPAG, currently Hercs do that I believe, the RN MCMV ships are going so deploying the autonomous systems will be added, saw the Atlas trials for that by JADT&EU.

        Too many roles on too small a force which now, by necessity, SF will take a large chunk.

        Maybe as you say DSF has been promised a sweetener!! And NOT Osprey! I’d have rather kept the Hercs!

        Another factor is the effect on Marshalls in Cambridge.

        • All top points mate which goes to show how absolutly essential the herc force is. Youve mentioned a number of factors which many commentators, and indeed head sheds seem not to be reailstic about. With just 22 Atlas (maybe 15 avaialble in the forward fleet) taking on all these roles, then there will be capability gaps somewhere. And when we lost a herc in Afghan, can you imagine losing an Atlas doing the same tasking…gold plated asset, no chance. Im all for modern tech assets, force multipliers etc an understand that we are moving towards, better tech, less platforms, BUT, there are some platforms that are absolutly and utterly essential, and the herc slots into its specific role perfectly. Remove it and you have removed a capabilty, or more importantly you have removed an “option”, and if you remove an option, you have less options, making worse options possibly seem feasible. Cheers mate.

        • We have 22 Atlas(ish), but the fleet does relatively little task wise although that has grown (slowly).
          The 14 Hercs were in the fleet to deliver about half that number of aircraft daily available (for maint and upgrade cover and to even flying hours).

          Basically, the task lines work if, and this is the big if, Atlas can step up their abysmal fleet availability. Some of that is lack of parts and people so Herc going does free significant resources to help acheive that.

          As for SF, everyone said the J would never do SF as only the K could do it. Funny old thing, as they put effort into using the J, did the mods to the aircraft and got the crews experience, the J stepped in just fine. Plus a load of “must do” things were exposed as only there due to legacy/pet favs of key people who didnt want change.

          Change has come again and I guarantee they’ll make it work.

          I admit some new MC-130s would have been ideal given the Js were fkd, but given SF constantly want 1-2 dedicated C17s, their actual demands for tasks are for more range/payload/altitude – so Atlas meets that.

          Plus there is a (US) Squadron of MC-130s already in the UK (as well as V22s) so given the interoperability of SF tasks, why duplicate? Especially as we can offer their forces something different.

    • Not onto the deck. That would be too hard to hit. If they did it’d damage an eye-wateringly special coated deck to cope with the F35B engine heat.. Dropped into the sea & recovered by heli or boat.

  5. I wonder if the few A400 will be able to undertake all the roles filled by the C130, I am thinking not, sadly.

        • Merge with the Marines and have Para commandos ! a winged Pegasus with a dagger through its back !

          • Not at all, neither disappearing or blotting any copybook. NI was NI, most of what is touted about is republican chuff.

          • Reading the Runes of the Defence Review I think that is the direction of travel.
            Can’t make too many political points otherwise the Mods will delete me. NI is complex. There are two plaited ropes. One is Republicanism/Irish Celtic Heritage/ Catholicism. The other is Monarchy/Unionism/Presbyterianism. Disentangling the knots is not easy.

          • Tell me about it in reagrd to NI. As for the para role, there will always be a role, and a trained capability. As we have all chatted about many times, very unlikley will we ever have the need (or even the airframes and assets) to drop a full Brigade, BUT the option should always be there, even if its simply to have that option, in order for any future adversery to take that into there planning considerations, and for them to deply assets and people, to defend against it. Obviously we will still have the need for small teams to jump, either static line or AFF (up to Coy group level) but I do belive there will always be the need and requirment for Airborne forces.

      • Time for an update

        “The A400M is already able to drop up to 116 paratroopers, via simultaneous dispatch from the side doors with automatic parachute opening, or from the ramp with automatic parachute opening or in freefall, day and night. Recent tests were completed in Spain, in collaboration with the UK Royal Air Force parachute test team, to expand up to 25,000 feet (7,600 metres) for automatic parachute opening – and up to 38,000ft (11,582 metres) for free fall.”

        https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2021/05/airbus-delivers-the-100th-a400m.html

        • But is it certified? I guess at least the concept has been tested, which will mean it can/will be done if there is a pressing need, even if still not fully certified.

          A400m was always intended to replace C130 but the latter’s retirement got delayed due to the early availability problems with Atlas. So you would have to hope that A400m is ready to fulfill all the basic capabilities, even if it’s not quite like for like in some areas.

          • Oh I agree that, as seems par for the course, yet another military project, meddled with by political pressure, has ended up being late in delivering. I just think we’re at a point where A400m starts to deliver capabilities that C130J doesn’t, beyond the additional range and load carrying capability. That Automatic Low Level Flight capability for Instrumental Meteorological Conditions (IMC) mentioned in the PR seems to be one example.

  7. The nose would probably dig into the ramp because of the low ground clearance on the Hercules which is designed for heavy lift operations short and stubby struts.

  8. QE aircraft carriers should have been fitted with cats and traps and upgraded typhoons to carrier based then with f35 would have give the carrier some punch. Short signed having the carriers only been able to operate f35 planes.

    • Cats and traps + upgraded Sea-Typhoon would mean no f35 buys at all. No plausible case for it with the bean counters.

      • If they had installed cats and traps at the initial build , It would have made the Queen Elizabeth class available to other NATO carrier capable aircraft and the opportunity for purchase of carrier capable aircraft in future.

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