RFA Argus will depart HMNB Portsmouth on 23 February for the final time, bringing more than four decades of service with the Royal Fleet Auxiliary to a close, the Royal Navy has confirmed.
The Italian-built vessel, originally launched as the container ship MV Contender Bezant, was requisitioned during the 1982 Falklands War and purchased outright in 1984. Following conversion, she entered service as an Aviation Training Ship before later assuming the role of Primary Casualty Receiving Ship (PCRS).
During the 1991 Gulf War, Argus was fitted with a fully functional hospital facility. In 2009, the PCRS role became her primary function. In this capacity, the ship has provided Role 3 medical support, alongside aviation training and operational support functions.
The Royal Navy has also deployed Argus in humanitarian assistance missions, where her medical and aviation capabilities proved suited to disaster relief operations. Although often described as a support ship or helicopter carrier, she is not formally classified as a hospital ship under the Geneva Convention, as she is armed and does not carry protected markings.
With a displacement of over 28,000 tonnes and a flight deck capable of operating multiple Merlin, Chinook, Apache or Wildcat helicopters, Argus has supported maritime aviation training and Littoral Response Group operations in recent years.
However, by 2025 the vessel had been deemed unsafe to sail and effectively laid up. Her departure marks the end of service for the last active ship to have served in the Falklands conflict. Throughout her career, Argus has sailed globally in support of Royal Navy operations, combining aviation training, medical capability and operational support within a single adaptable platform.
So much for LRG(S)
I’m still waiting for the latest bollox to be uttered by an MoD spokesperson or minister, last time we lost the LPDs, we had.
“No reduction in amphibious capability.”
And never mind amphibious, what of the PCRS role?
Very true. I wonder if there is any faint hope of retaining one of the Albions as a replacement. Different ship and capability, but still…….
I doubt it. The crew disparity between the two is large. Additionally, Albion has been cannibalised to get Oiapoque (formerly Bulwark) ready for sale to Brazil.
That is saying something as there was, in recent years, only one full set of parts between the two ships necessitating more a lot to the hull rotating into service.
Why not carry out a similar version Argus today. After all it lasted over 40 years and was cheap. Even two.
Haddon Cave
Argus was a rushed bodge job for Corporate – a good bodge but a bodge non the less.
Now you couldn’t approach it like that for class rules as much as anything else.
Yes, you can convert but it is a lot harder than it once was.
SB,
Purely speculative musing w/out supporting documentation on my part–USN has probably factored in supplying Lewis and Clark class (T-AKE) dry cargo/ammunition vessels to support RN CSGs, until FSS class achieves IOC. Military Sealilft Command (MSC) may protest re strained capability (14 vessels in class), but will comply as directed. Similarly, USMC will provide F-35B squadron(s) for QNLZ/PWLS until RAF/RN receive sufficient a/c. Quite probably, an USN SSN will be attached to CSG, or operating independently at a convenient distance. ASW FFGs are a definite problem, both RN and USN lost the bubble on the issue. Arleigh Burke probably best available USN alternative. Perhaps the French or Italians could accommodate? In any event, the QE class will not sail unprotected in harm’s way. Simply too valuable in E-A operations to sacrifice needlessly. Predict RN will right the figurative ship by 2035-2040.
All I will say is look at Astro’s. The Canadian can do it and there is more meat in a converted merchant vessel than the tin cans designed and built for the RN!!
Before you suggest things like that you may wish to research how much it is costing for the conversion, lease and operating costs of MV Asterix and its has zero amphibious capability. I suggest you sit down and have a large drink nearly as it’s an eye watering sum of money😖
ABC Rodney, I’m sorry you think MV Asterix was expensive for what was a full rebuild from keel upwards. Yes it was but my point still stands. Argus was a STUFT in 1982 and lasted until mid 2025. As a profession seafarer this ship gave outstanding service but was beyond her working life and should have been replaced at least 10 years ago. If you look at the cost of of a hull plate replacement, bespoke engine parts, aircraft lift repair and various other costs you could argue a replacement STUFT vessel converted would have been cheaper. If you consider the waste of money by disposal of the Waves before their design out of service date it is shameful. I note that the mod is selling them both for £53 when Wave Knight alone cost the country sum £253million in 2002. As for amphibious capability for Asterix that was not her primary role she is a replenishment ship with additional add on capability. Argus started lift as an air training ship and finished as a PCRS. She was not an amphibious vessel she just could carry a lot including Royal. The prober amphibious ships were LSL’s and now LSDAs within the RFA. If MARS programme had been achieved we would now have AO’s, 2xFSS, 2x Joint basing vessels for over the horizon amphibious capability, an ARGUS replacement and new Diligence. As it was the programme was cancelled and now the RFA is in a complete mess. In fact with the Tides almost 20 years only (Tidespring) there has to be a discussion soon about their replacement. May be with the track record of the UK Governments since 2007, the selling of the Waves to INOCEA may demonstrate a new way to support the RN! That is if there are RN vessels at sea!!
Sorry typo Tides approaching 10 yrs old
Another one bites the dust. It’s embarrassing how far the armed forces have fallen thanks to decades of erosion by all parties.
“All parties” you mean Labour and Conservative? Cos far as I can see, it’s only been those two running the country.
So for deployment of forces in support of JIF our options are looking non existent – well done. I thought defence reviews were meant to be strategic! clearly those writing them have no idea what the word ‘capability’ means
What exactly is the problem – the defence review determined that a ship which isn’t repairable and can’t go to sea is better off being scrapped then having money spent on it’s upkeep as… I don’t even know what, a floating accommodation block?
It should have been scrapped several years ago and replaced, no reduction in actual capability because it wasn’t used anyway, but once again we’re behind in replacing equipment.
Argus was slated to join PoW last year as part of her CSG deployment. She was due to be reintegrated into the fleet after a period of refit in Falmouth.
The problem is how do we send 45 Commando to the High North or even Estonia if needed. Retaining Argus, whilst binning Albion and Bulwark was nonsensical.
I agree with you, once again we’re binning without replacement.
Unfortunately if you try to use logic to interpret U.K. defence policy you end up as mad those making it.
The arguments for disposing of the LPDs never did make any sense in so far as the RMs don’t go in for over beach opposed landings but that was the main argument used to dispose of these vessels along with their high vulnerability to drones and missiles ignoring that they would be escorted at all times or could dare I say it be suitably rearmed with additional defensive armament or longer legged landing craft so allowing them to sit further offshore (this of course all costs money). The recent shock news seems to be that the U.K. has a strategic interest in the Nordic nations and high north (our close neighbours), who can of course be quickly reinforced by air with troops but heavy equipment and stores must come by sea. You can argue that with Sweden and Finland joining NATO perhaps Norway with our fixed base is less reliant on amphibious shipping but you can now add Greenland to the area of operations we need and should be able to reinforce with our allies (U.K./NL Force anyone?)
We now enter La La land as we witness our senior politicians telling the MSM we are increasing our commitment in Norway and the High North whilst continuing to cut the support shipping without any sign of the replacements that are required to sustain them and if necessary quickly manoeuvre them to a point of crisis.
Of course some would say that the Point class can do this task but they are not front line vessels, have no aviation capability and will be required in times crisis to support the Army. They are also critically only able to use fixed ports that would become a prime target.
The unpalatable truth is the reduction in the size of the RMs, their shipping and organic helicopter lift is now seen to be what it is, sheer folly. I have no argument with the logic behind the FCF but it’s genesis was born of necessity because the Navy required more manpower for the carriers and the bootnecks were reduced to provide the numbers.
In the past this lack of RMs could have been alleviated by the army but it to is now far too small for its current tasks let alone adding more (where are those 7.5k troops coming from for Ukraine?).
This is all down to money or a lack of it, which I finally think is even entering the minds of senior members of the Government but it is going take at least a decade to suitably address the gaps that are so obviously apparent.
A good summary. It’s down to money and a decent strategic review.
Our ability to safely deploy troops and capabilities is very limited to a few C17s and A400s. Which means Brize now becomes a centre of gravity.
Yes, good post.
We dispose of kit on flimsy excuses.
Do other countries still use amphibious ships?
Yes.
Ben she spent 5 months last year in refit and was supposed to be extended in service until at least 2030. Her extension of service was the reason/excuse to cut the proposed conversion of a Bay to littoral support ship and was used in part to justify the scrapping of the LPDs. What has changed?
Was it just incompetence because someone inspected her during the refit in Falmouth or was it deliberate deceit because it was politically useful to pretend she was being retained for a short period whilst the LPDs were cut. It’s one or the other but I am sure those responsible will be suitably rewarded with promotion, indexed linked pension and an honour for public service.
As for Argus she was a fine ship, which along with HMS Ocean and the Bays have provided excellent value for money to the British taxpayer proving that you don’t need to gold plate equipment to have a useful asset. Where indeed are the replacements for these important vessels.
She may have spent it in refit, but evidently it was not going to sea again because it was going to be too costly to repair, it’s just that the Conservatives didn’t want to commit to scrapping the ship because then they’d be accountable, it was scheduled to be scrapped in 2024 but then that got reversed because they couldn’t find the money to refit a Bay-class, now you’ve got the issue where once again we have no replacement.
The only hope I have is that by getting rid of this and the others which arguably weren’t going to sea or we didn’t have the crew for that we can take those savings and invest heavily in MRSS, it’s 3-6 ships but I am hoping savings mean we fully commit to 6 vessels because that’d be quite a turn around for the RFA, they’d come out of it with more capable and modern vessels.
MRSS isn’t coming until the mid 2030’s at best, what does the UK do to fill the gaps till then? Will the RFA even exist by then?
Fill what gaps? Argus was getting scrapped by 2024 anyway, the Conservatives just didn’t want to make the decision and so pretended they could get it back in service when they couldn’t.
The Bay-class ships will take the capability in the meantime which was what was going to happen after 2024 anyway, until the Conservatives as I said reversed their decisions and wasted incredible amounts of money on a ship which needed scrapping.
Ben she spent much of 2024 in the Indo-Pacific and was scheduled under the current Government to met the CSG as it returned to the U.K late last year.
I agree with you that the Tories were largely a cynical bunch of incompetents but the current mob have continued with the same lies when they could have told the truth with no loss of credibility to them.
The Bays have little or no aviation capability so there is a significant gap created that this Government denied existed up until today. They have been in power for going on 20 months, held an SDR in that time and didn’t know about this? We are really expected to believe all this.
She may have done that and yes she was eventually meant to return to the CSG – but in between that it was announced it was scrapped, only to be put back into service.
Labour not finding 6 MRSS ships to replace it in a year doesn’t really change that – Argus wasn’t going back to sea, the Conservatives can say it all they want – but they scrapped it, brought it out and knew they weren’t going to have to deal with the fact it wasn’t seaworthy as the election would see they weren’t in power.
Whether the bays have the capability or not – they where intended to replace Argus in 2024 in that capacity, that was the decision – the Conservatives bringing it out of scrapping when it’s not seaworthy means nothing, it’s just them forcing an illusion with what we have on paper and it appears people have fallen for it.
Argus service life was extended in 2022 to 2030 so two years before the last election and since that time there was no news that she was being retired.
I couldn’t careless about either Tory or Labour and I don’t expect ships to be built in 6 months but honesty and competency is required by any Government. It’s been sadly lacking for at least the last two decades.
It was scrapped in 2024, that was it’s decommissioning date, there are plenty of articles that discuss it having it’s date extended from 2024 when the Conservatives hadn’t even planned for that to happen.
The problem is that for all practical purposes the government has now abandoned the Royal Marines to what exactly? The next round of cuts so that the train drivers can get another pay rise (note RFA action)? As for MRSS I think we can now regard it as a dream. I doubt It’ll ever happen.
Abandoned them how? The ship wasn’t seaworthy, it wasn’t going to sea, it certainly wasn’t going to sea before MRSS is meant to come online, you’d be keeping a ship around which doesn’t do what you want for the express purpose of saying we have it, we can do x,y,z with it when it can’t do any of that.
As for the Royal Marines the MoD for quite a while have had RFA Argus and the Bay Class vessels marked for the same capacity littoral combat, so they’ll just continue doing it, we’ll just be down one ship but only on paper because that ship had no chance of going to sea anyway.
It’s not just this ship. So you’re fine with Albion, Argus, Bulwark all being disposed of with noe sign of MRSS in even the medium term. O.K.
Yes I am fine with it. We need to get rid of this mentality which has absolutely captured the MoD which is we shouldn’t plan for the future and just keep wasting money on ships we don’t intend to use and even if we manage it, it’s for short term operations to give the illusion of a larger fleet.
I can’t imagine how many billions the MoD have wasted on trying to build this illusion of having more than we really have all because they can’t seem to competently handle project acquisition – Ajax alone is a perfect example, billions on extending Warrior which was then dropped to go all in on Ajax which they can’t even competently manage the delivery of and by the end of the year we might not even have Ajax which itself has had billions spent on it.
The MoD need to actually start delivering, show a little talent and stop hoping that decade old platforms which cost more than they’re worth are available to bail them out – how we get less output in many areas than countries like France with tens of billions less in defence spending is outrageous.
Though I do know, because people like you come along and paper over those problems by trying to continue the same illusion of output that doesn’t exist.
“people like me”. Oh dear, Ben. I seem to have upset you. People like me have been fighting our corner for forty odd years, some successes, some failures. What we haven’t done is glibly attacked other people without knowing about their input. The point I’m making (again) is that with the three main ships disposed of, and with no sight of MRSS on the horizon I question whether this government, as they are the ones currently in power, are looking at a downgrad of the Royal Marines. I don’t know the answer. Perhaps you do?
All evidence points to the opposite of a downgrade – the thing potentially lost is not enough flexibility, but again the Bay class vessels where already positioned and planned to take over the role of Argus when it was retired in 2024 before being unretired, so from that perspective you still have the capability for the Royal Marines.
That being said, I don’t believe Royal Marines will operate as much from them anyway – NATO’s policy in the event of a war is mainly defensive and focused on not giving an inch of territory and so at worst you’d see Royal Marines operating out of Norway where their numbers have been massively increased for annual deployments to the country.
I do wonder where the evidence of upgrades are. As things stand, we have lost the ships, the LRG concept is doubtful to say the least and MRSS has already been re-branded and is at least two years late with he programme just entering the “planning stage” and we all know how long that can take.
Havin said that I agree with what you say about the future. Putting the high north to one side for the moment the likely global role of the Commando force is more likely to be about command and control of littoral systems, extraction and surgical strike and recovery. My problem, after thirty years of successive government cuts is whethet the RMC is going to get the equipment they need. Their capability to act in the new defined role is always at threat by government interference . I have something of an aversion to trusting Whitehall.
Don’t bother Geoff.
👍
Couldn’t help myself.😊
At least it wasn’t ‘you people’… 👀🤪
True
🙃True
Without Albion, Bulwark, Argus and just 3 Bays on the ORBAT there’s little option to transport troops and their equipment safely to Norway, Estonia? Requisitioned cruise liners are not the answer.
The cost of keeping these assets is miniscule (Albion – £2m per year)?
The way they do currently, fly courtesy of the RAF.
As for equipment, there’s the Point Class.
Not sure the handful of C17s and Atlas have the lift capacity to move a brigade. Especially when there’ll be other tasking. Typically Albion would be picking them up off Arbroath on the way up. Point class aren’t a replacement for Albion/ Bulwark. Lessons from Falklands quickly forgotten – can’t imagine 45 happy to be going into contested AOs in a Point Class.
How do you think we get them to Norway or Estonia currently? Not using an Albion-Class. Turning up to a Norwegian-held port and unloading troops and vehicles is not an amphibious operation. 🤦🏻♂️
The Falklands was an opposed landing. We’re not doing those anymore, because they’re high-casualty.
The idea is to reinforce Norway, not to retake it after its fallen 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
The problem is not planning and procuring a replacement.
There has been a massive degree of incompetence on all sides of the political spectrum for 20 years when it comes to defence. UK amphibious capability is basically finished now, apart from limited peacetime humanitarian assistance operations perhaps. Argus should, of course, have been retired years ago. (If anything it is HMS Ocean that should have been retained). But the greater demonstration of incompetence is the complete failure to replace both amphibious capability earlier and to renew the surface fleet on a timely basis.
It really shows what a complete shit show getting rid of bulwark was.. do 20 million quid bag a few million saved each year we have lost a major strategic capability that would cost half a billion + to replace.. now if they had any form of brain they would have
Scrapped Albion and Argus then put every effort into keeping Bulwark at 1 months readiness for the next 6-7 years.. then scrap her.. as it is we have given a none allied South American nation a strategic asset.. let’s hope Brazil and Argentina don’t form an alliance to control and dominate the south Atlantic or we will have provided the very strategic capability required to counter our forces in the region….
Why keep a ship for another decade just sitting by around? If they know for certain they cannot continue to operate it, might as well get rid of it.
Because it does not cost very much and it’s a strategic asset.. a part of the conventional deterrence.. the US carriers spend most of their lives sitting around not deployed so they are able to be deployed… because if we ever need to dump a battalion of marines in the high north we will need an Albion or Bulwark.. as long as you maintain an asset at 1 months notice it is a deterrent.
Those ships are seaworthy though, this isn’t seaworthy – it’s a ship which only exists on paper, it’s not going to sea again and it doesn’t look like there is an intention of that happening, it was meant to be scrapped in 2024 but they decided to reverse that for some reason and refit it when it wasn’t in the condition to refit it.
Bulawark is seaworthy.. they had just spaffed 70 million on a refit… I was talking about keeping bulwark at 1 months readiness not Argus.. Argus is very very old and and old cheap merchant hull to boot bulwark was a 25 year old top of the line 20,000 ton assault ship.. with probably a good 10-15 years of life in her.
Do we need an LPD to do that? Points or STUFT would do that just fine.
No it won’t, the point of an assault ship is you can dump a battalion anywhere that has a beach.. STUFT needs a well run port .. the Points are far more limited ship to shore and finally none of them have the command and control that a Bulwark has.. finally bulwark is designed to survive when a stuft or point would not it’s got RN warship survivability not civilian like a SFUFT or Point…
And why exactly are we dumping our troops on a Norwegian beach or needing to command them from the sea when we could use the many land based command centers? Face the reality that the Marines are not expeditionary anymore, theyre just a rapid reinforcement for the Nato front.
45 would disagree
And how big is 45 exactly?
Big enough to need an Albion – too valuable to be stuck on a Point Class. We’re the only major or medium sized power binning off Amphib – lessons from Falklands being quickly forgotten
Were not binning all our amphibs though, we still have the Bays, most Euro navies arent operating 6-7 amphibs like everyone on heres wants us to somehow do. They may not be ideal ships as your only amphibs but its hardly disbanding the entire force.
And what do you think Russia will be doing to all the ports.. best way to get a battalion of marines killed would be to pack them into a civilian level ship and pop them straight into a predictable high value target zone.. best way to not kill your battalion of marines.. offload them onto some random beach or seaside village….
Acting like russia has the long range strike capabilities to do that off the bat.
Yes Russia does have the long range strike capability to do that it’s one of the areas Russia has invested in.. it go plenty of platforms for launching cruise missiles at a sitting target like a big civilian ship full of marines.. crawling into a port at 4 knots. It basic art of War stuff.. “Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected”… or act like idiots and get 500 marines killed.
And an LPD is going to avoid the same fate how exactly? Acting like we wont be escorting these ships whether theyre amphibs or whatever we can grab.
👍
Could have worked it jointly with other countries in the JEF, giving the JEF a permanent command capability.
Why couldn’t they command from I Dunno…. Land
Because they is navy, not army. Duh!
Hardly a duh when were talking about reinforcing the NATO land front, not an assualt on a far off shore.
Ok, boss man, it was only a joke! Jeez Louise, might as well start calling you Hugo Boss.
I admire your ability to see into the future and know what we will and won’t need. That we won’t be fighting over Svalbard, Jan Mayen or Iceland. That the Kola Penninsula is off limits. That we won’t be hunting subs in the High North. The point is to give government options in the unknowable future, not to say we will be reinforcing NATO on a land front and we need be capable of nothing else. By the way, you do know that the JEF is a rapid response expeditionary force by design? It’s not a reinforcement capability, rather a show up first one. That’s why having a permanently available integral command capability would have been nice, while waiting for the reinforcements from Central Europe.
So is this another capability that has been “gapped” or “paused”? The UK’s good at that. Embarrassing. End of moan.
“Sooty, what are you doing here” ?
I’m a little surprised Ft Vic hasn’t gone too.
She will, give them time….timing…
Fort Vic’s next trip is to Aliagia.
She’ll never sail again and everyone knows it.
It’s no shock though, is it ?
The real issue is the faffing about and lack of continuity so typical of all governments for decades.
40+ years of service yet nothing In the imediate pipeline.
Nothing in the pipeline? It takes planning you know. Forty years isn’t that long really. 🤔🧐
You do begin to worry now if the amphibious forces will ever recover or are they for the chop in terms of new ships to replace the 3 bays with even just 3 MRSS if the RMs role is Norway and the Arctic and what they will even be in terms of light raiding but not looking too good.
I can’t help but think that the days of amphibiious warfare for the UK are over. Any thought of a Falklands or Sierra Leone type deployment are at an end. It’ss be the Royals next…
I am beginning to think the same now in terms of shipping I can’t see them cutting the RMs they are too specialist in Arctic warfare and so important for feeding the special forces.
The Navy I think does seem set now at the 2 carriers 19 destroyers/frigates 7 astutes the 4 new dreadnoughts 5 Batch 2 rivers and i think we will get through Norway 3 drone mother ship/patrol ship to replace the batch 1 rivers as a token gesture to say theve ordered something!
Hope I’m wrong then Aukus subs in the late 2030s
We will get an idea on the commitment to our amphibious capabilities if the £190m Commando Insertion Craft (CIC) programme progresses. If not then it is curtains to all intents and purposes.
Yes as you say if that is yet another programme cancelled it could spell the end of amphibious operations which is a tad stupid for an island nation! But politicians are not the brightest and signals the NATO Europe first in the high North and let Trump deal with China!
There are a lot of airfields in Norway. Although many have short runways I believe there exists a runway lengthening program. If the RM are not already stationed there, the fastest way to re-inforce them, would be A400 and/ or Chinook / Merlin from a carrier. I reckon the DIP will order a batch of A400s as the ‘replacement’ for LRG(N)
Yes the RAF have on order 14 I think extended range chinooks with 500 mile radius over the 250 now you could see one of the carriers in a more amphibious role and the SDR did talk about adding long range strike missiles to them which seemed very odd at the time but makes more sense in terms of striking land targets but who knows!
Yes the RAF have wanted more A400s for a while but they will cost money mate! You may have to ask Rachel for them🤣
The key date is the Spring forecast March 3rd. In good news, apparently the Jan borrowing numbers showed a larger surplus- tax receipts up and govt expenditure steady. The DIP and orders for things like the NMH are waiting for this forecast and the cost outcome of the Ajax studies.
Let’s hope there is good news then they can’t keep talking a good fight without putting their money where their mouth is!
Reeves is obviously hoping she can finesse an earlier increase in defence spending. But we are clearly in ‘ necessity is the mother of invention’ territory. The Household Cavalry is learning how to combine Boxer ( for drone defence I assume) with Ajax.
HC is using Boxer? The RAC wasn’t scheduled to recieve that platform?
Reported in defence eye and elsewhere 12th feb
Any force other than a small and almost inconsequential in its military usefulness can be solely supplied by air so you need shipping to do this at the very least.
We should also remember any additional A400s will just replace the C130s we have recently discarded.
First they didn’t want the Hercules transports and now there’s massive questions over the Para’s, now they scrapping our heavy sea lift capability and associated vessels the very future of the Marines is now under threat with this MOD incompetence. It’s crazy to think countries like Germany have vastly more deployable assets than we have now but remember the military is a priority now…..
I don’t think you can conclude that losing the LPDs equates to scapping our heavy sea lift capacity. The plans for the Point replacements are ambitious. Amphibious assault is valid for the US and Australia in their region but for the UK it looks like we have decided to focus on air assault and securing ports. We will be re-inforcing Norway, not retaking it.
As per other commenters once you cut we never get back, the past and present governments have slowly been chopping away our expeditionary capabilities is undeniable. It’s not like we could reinforce anywhere now with much of anything credible since the places we are reinforcing have much greater forces than ourselves.
I guess in the halls of the MOD if we are only reinforcing Norway then we only need a couple of ferry’s to do the job, Im betting we don’t need any amphibious platforms since the Pacific plans are probably dead as starmers all pally with china.
Agree once we cut , (never say never, we are resurrecting industrial capabilities like gun barrel forging) but it does look like we have taken a conscious decision to let large scale amphibious assault capability go.
Its curtains for the RM, thats why they have decided to go all in on Norway to retain whatever relevancy they still can. The days of Iraq ’03 are gone for good. No chance will MRSS ever get off the ground. Once you’ve done without it, the MOD will say you don’t need it.
Norway will have about 60k soldiers, reserve and home guard, Sweden is planning a force size including reserves of 115k , and Finland army and reserves is getting on for 200k.
Not sure what Amphibious landing on that section of land will be needed, it would be a specific raiding or counter Spezsnaz type operation?
Taking Svalbard would require shipping if it were deemed necessary.
Can we afford a full spectrum of capability? Unfortunately not unless some hard choices are made on benefits.
Im not suggesting there will be any amphibious landing. The RM will be based at Camp Viking and operating as light infantry using Merlin and their vehicles. The RM amphibious force is history.
But FCF is all about raiding and RM units are no longer configured to act as light infantry and are now expected to deploy in much smaller units. The support units have also been butchered to reflect the change.
It’s a right mess because 3 Commando Brigade could undertake raiding and act as light infantry but the RM’s are no longer set up or have the manpower to act as light infantry but that’s progress ?
Its not progress in the slightest.
It shows the usual high level of strategic planning.
You take 40, 42, and 45 Commando, remove 42 from the “green Cdo” equation by having it go specialist ops, leaving just two.
Then with LRG N & S the two Cdos are set up to have a Strike Company forward on amphibs or ready to deploy.
Now, all change, ships cut, all go to Norway.
They’re catching Labour’s penchant for U Turns.
How about keeping the amphibious and the RM as a Brigade in the first place if they’re now emphasising Norway?
Completely agree
So do I and you will have to excuse my sarcasm regarding ‘progress’
This is what we all expected really .What’s next in the cue . 😟
I don’t know what all the fuss is about, even after the conversion at considerable cost, she was not FFP!
Calm and correct. We have at last hit rock bottom of our strategy for amphibious capability and the role of the RM. We are at the turning point. I expect the DIP will clarify the plans for airborne assault and MRSS – one month to go.
I’m not sure about the what the rankings in defence budget world we are now, but we seem to pay a lot for very little in comparison with other militaries. France has a well balanced military twice the size of the UK for less money!
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that I don’t believe the budget is the main problem. If I had to pick one thread that runs top to bottom through our ( British) culture it is fear of being punished for making a mistake or speaking out. As I see it, that’s the reason projects like Ajax go off track and why it took so long to cancel Nimrod for P8. We spin it as the great British ‘tolerance’ of diversity, and we are indeed a kind people. But we put up with crazy ideas like trialling puberty drugs on vulnerable children. Let’s call an ethical spade a spade – these children are being used a lab rats to satisfy the perverted whims of Mengele psychologists and biochemists. All cultures have hierarchies that inhibit free expression, but I would say that French culture while being less tolerant is more forgiving, less class based, more merit based, and more decisive: maybe a incestuous based and nationality on merit rather than class. Dassault vs BAE?
No surprise, Argus was clapped out.
BUT what is REALLY coming home to roost is the foolish decisions to:
• selling the fourth Bay landing-ship to Australia
• selling the three Type 23 frigates to Chile
These are all ships the RN could really do with right now.
That fourth Bay, now HMAS Choules, is sitting here in Sydney harbour. It looks in pretty good knick and as you suggest pretty useful. If the RM are getting more focused into smaller raiding parties and a more Northetn focus would a small fleet of 3-4 land attack capable AH140s/MRNP types plus a LHD Mistral/Canberra type be more useful and affordable? The frigates could double up as GP/Mother ships. The LHD would free up the carriers being needed.
The 3 T23s that Chile got are not needed “now” at all as they’re at/beyond the end of their useful RN lives. What we need rather is more T26 or T31s ordered & those building completed as quickly as we can to stem the apalling dwindling escort force & restore it to what we need asap. Whatever they chose for future amphibious tasks needs to be ordered PDQ rather than retiring major assets with no replacement.
I think Spocks right, Frank.
If I recall correctly, the 3 T23s cut and sold to Chile included the youngest examples of the class.
To the Bay, I’d add Fort George. Cutting her, while keeping just her sister Victoria and also keeping the older and slower Austin and Rosalie ( Grange ) has left us with no FSS.
I’d agree re Fort George.
Of the T23s the Grafton was the only youngish one. But with those 3 in service all this time, the patrol burden would have been spread across more hulls. So while the 2 older ones would probably have been gone by now, the likes of Westminster or Northumberland might have had another year or two’s service.
Logical, and I quite agree.
I had the same complaint when the 14 Hercs went leaving the 22 Atlas to take their role.
Wear out happens quicker, fewer assets
Fort George was supposedly in a better material state, then Fort Victoria, but needed a refit
In an ideal world the T26s and T31s would have been ordered earlier. Thanks for stating the bleeding obvious.
But if the 3 T23s had not been sold to Chile, then the RN would obviously have more operational frigates than it currently does. Also obvious.
Maybe read a post in future before making making yourself look an idiot with a daft comment?
So the RN needs modern replacements for Bulwark & Albion, Ocean, Argus & more rapid deivery of T26/31s to catch up with the debacle of T23s wearing out before replacements ready. Also urgently need to get back to 25-30 escort fleet asap to be credible once again as an ally & deterent to our enemies.
Argus is ancient & we’ve certainly got as much as we could squeeze out of her. But just cutting/allowing to die from old age with no plan to restore capability is treasonous folly.
I see that Turkey – yes Turkey – currently has a substantial amphibious Task Group in the Baltic for NATO exercises that is centred on TCG Anadolu, a 27,000-ton LHD. Anadolu is by a substantial margin the largest amphibious ship operated by any European Navy, whilst the UK has zero. When will China decide to send a “shock and awe” naval TG to European waters that could easily overwhelm anything the RN – or even the French MN – could offer? This year? Next year? Perhaps a reverse Perry Expedition.
It’s worth comparing the RN’s amphibious forces (then called the UK Amphibious Ready Group) ten years ago with today:
• LPH, HMS Ocean – sold to Brazil
• LPD, HMS Bulwark – sold to Brazil
• LPD, HMS Albion – hulk, expected to be scrapped
• LSS/AVS/PCRS, RFA Argus – being prepared for scrapping
• LSD(A), RFA Lyme Bay – laid up, Gibraltar (no budget to operate)
• LSD(A), RFA Mounts Bay – completing refit, Falmouth
• LSD(A), RFA Cardigan Bay – extended readiness (no crew available), Falmouth (now expected to start a refit this year – so unavailable until 2027?)
The Littoral Strike Ship (LSS) programme announced in 2019 is defunct – it was never properly funded.
Littoral Strike Groups (North) and (South) announced in 2020 currently don’t exist – the later lasted less than a year.
The plans announced in 2024 to order for three Multi-Role Strike Ships (MRSS) have been continuously delayed and are now dependent on DIP approval (far from certain). Even if this is given, they can’t possibly enter service until the mid-2030’s assuming construction in the UK.
In addition, 3 Cdo Brigade was a complete and combat proven light infantry brigade of three battalions with supporting units. Now it is an admin formation with just two full strength battalions (40 and 45 Commando), which will rotate as the core unit of the battle group based at Camp Viking in Norway.
In 2016 the UK was the country in other than the USA that could deploy a full brigade by sea – anywhere in the world. Today, it’s all history. We no longer have any capability to conduct amphibious operations above company strength. A comparison with the likes of China, France, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Egypt, Brazil, Australia, South Korea, Japan, … is at best embarrassing
an excellent summary /analysis RB!