Ben Wallace will replace Penny Mordaunt.
The new Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, has picked his new Secretary of State for Defence.
According to his website, after leaving school at eighteen, Ben did a short stint as a Ski Instructor in Austria before entering the Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst. He was commissioned into the Scots Guards at twenty and he has also worked in the aerospace industry.
Ben was elected to the Scottish Parliament to represent North East Scotland in May 1999. In 2003 he stood down and moved to Lancashire. He was selected as Conservative candidate to fight the marginal seat of Lancaster & Wyre, which he won.
Until the General Election of 2005, Ben was employed by QinetiQ as their Overseas Director in the Security & Intelligence Division.
What’s that, four different ministers in around two years. How long will this one last? The MOD must be crying out for some stability.
Great to actually see a defence minister who has a served.
I hope he doesn’t favour the army over the RN and RAF. They both need heavy investment and should be our priority as an island nation. The army should be well equipped and pack a punch, but be smaller. We desperately need more mass in the RN and additional Typhoon/F35 squadrons.
Yes I expressed the same wish/fear earlier.
We are not a land power.
But we should be a sea, air and intelligence power, and in many respects are.
Need more assets.
And it may mean things like T31 over all T26. Or cheaper jets.
That then gets people protesting, but how are we to expand, realistically?
The money or political will is not there for all high end any more.
It’s interesting Daniele, Boris has ‘promised’ to match defence spending to the level of threat. What that actually means in practice, we will see… I do however feel confident that defence has finally hit rock bottom after 30 years of salami slicing cuts started by the ‘Options for Change’ review in 1991, and is about to finally hit an upswing, the Iranian situation has brought our lack of assets into very sharp public focus and embarrassed the government. I feel confident chaps that Defence will take a new priority now that BREXIT will actually happen, despite three years of parliaments… Read more »
Fingers crossed John.
Another thought. Huawei. A U turn would be a good start, displaying some solidarity with our Anglophile brothers.
On Brexit I don’t share your optimism. It’s already been sabotaged by May losing her majority, deliberately, and Parliament blocking no deal allied with the EU refusing to renegotiate the bad deal they and May agreed. She knew full well what she was doing.
The pointless NI bill passed the other day was another landmine left behind by Hammond and May.
Important things to prevent a hard brexit which everyone with half a Braincell realises would be catastrophic!
Well said lee1 but I think the little English have got their way and the start of scottish independence
I am not so sure. There are plenty of MPs that are willing to sacrifice their careers to put a stop to a no deal exit.and therefore prevent disaster. I am not sure Boris will be PM for very long.
If the unthinkable does happen then I will be taking my family out of the UK. I am a skilled worker and therefore my skills are needed in many other countries. I am pretty sure I am going to be one of many and the skills drain will be quite dramatic.
Bye then.
Lee, leaving the UK lock, stock and barrel is not so easy in my opinion. Even if you’re skilled, getting visas is still a nightmare, as is renewing them and then residency is a whole level of further complexity. There are also many restrictions on you and financial impacts on your estate at home assuming you don’t sell up immediately. I’ve been in the US for 3 years and intend to do one more year, I could get a green card (my company will sponsor me), but don’t want to. The UK may have many faults but its still one… Read more »
The us is the last place I would be looking… Canada is prime choice and it is pretty simple to go there as a British citizen. I also have Canadian family…
Lee1, Don’t come to America. We don’t want spineless traitors.
I have no intention of living in the US. President Trump is far worse than staying in the UK in a no deal catastrophe. Plus I quite like not getting shot… And I am not a spineless traitor. (You really need to look up the meaning of those words). I have been in the UK armed forces and I am proud of my country as it was. I am not proud of what it is becoming and I as a parent have to look after the interests of my children. My children did not get to vote on their future,… Read more »
The harder the better as far as i am concerned.
@ Daniele Mandelli – I am now far more optimistic that we WILL leave on 31st October. The new PM has made that abundantly clear and has built a Cabinet that supports that objective. For a start its the return of a disciplined and collectively responsible Cabinet. Which will remind Tory MPs how they should support the party for whom they were elected. I am not sure TM deliberately lost her majority – she was misled by a 20 point lead in the OPs. She was just useless at campaigning. Parliament cannot as such block a No Deal exit as… Read more »
Evening Chris.
As usual, thank you for providing clarity to my understanding of things.
I thought the NI amendment required the gov to make regular reports to Parliament, which it cannot do if it is not sitting?
@ Daniele Mandelli – Quote: “I thought the NI amendment required the gov to make regular reports to Parliament, which it cannot do if it is not sitting?” Technically this was the mechanism used by the Remainers to ensure Parliament would have to sit to discuss ‘progress’ in Northern Ireland. It doesn’t mean they could debate anything else but as I said the amendment only stands between 9 October and 18 December unless a Northern Ireland executive is formed. We all know why it was done but on a personal note while I despise the method I would not support… Read more »
And your thoughts on Labour calling a no confidence motion before October? Allied with Tory rebels like Hammond?
@ Daniele Mandelli – This may take a few minutes so bear with me …. Only Corbyn can table such a Motion of No Confidence and if the Prime Minister loses (for whatever reason and whoever is to blame) then we will have a General Election. I am sure this is a tactic the Remain Parliament will have wanted to use as a last resort. Having said that in procedural terms that boat has sailed and he should have done it this week. But of course Speaker could not have allowed it because the new Government has not tabled any… Read more »
You may be correct in a few of your points, however if Boris loses a vote of no confidence and still takes us out of the EU on the 31st then he will show that he is spiteful to the last. The conservatives will also not get elected in a new election. They are a spent force as are labour under Corbyn. The only two parties left to fight it out are the brexit party and the lib Dems. Given that only the brexit party have hardly any policies and would be hopelessly out of their depth in government it… Read more »
@ Lee1 – So much to take apart and so little time …. I repeat for your education the earliest a ‘No Confidence’ vote can take place will be September 3rd. 14 days later if he loses a ‘Confidence’ vote he will ask HM the Queen to prorogue Parliament. It will stay as such way past the 31st of October until a GE. Given this Parliament voted to trigger Article 50 and its inferred leave date, it also voted for the Withdrawal Act and its inferred leave date and approved the 31st October date it will not be the PM… Read more »
What you claim you saw is not backed up by actual evidence. Baby boomers were far more likely than not to vote for brexit. The older generation than those were less likely to vote to leave but there are not many of them left. The younger generation were also most likely to vote to remain. That leaves the in-between generations that were split down the middle. The baby boomers are a large part of our society unfortunately. They are the ones with largely final salary pensions and they are the ones that own most of the rental housing stock and… Read more »
@ Lee1 – I make no ‘claims’ Old Son so sod off with calling me a liar. I know what I saw in weeks of campaigning, leaflet drops and knocking doors. And that 65% was the rather exaggerated LibDem figure on how many of the OAPS voted Leave not how many voted. All you are trotting out is your Remainer confirmation bias projected as fact when it is just an opinion. Worse it projects a false image that the older generation somehow did it to spite the younger generation. Now given it is that older generation that built and sustained… Read more »
Thank you Chris, as always. My knowledge is limited on the ins and outs of politics and you’re educational in that regard.
There was me thinking that this was a Forum for Military subjects. Well done for wasting about 10 minutes of my life.
The MPs loyalties should be with the UK not their party. Parliament can indeed block a no deal in many ways. They can call no confidence in the government and that will indeed happen. I am confident that the intelligent MPs will prevail and the idiot no dealers will fall into political oblivion. If not then I will be off. I am not staying in a country that is that stupid that it will voluntarily put itself into a catastrophic situation and all based on lies and myths. It is ludicrous. I have a family to look after so I… Read more »
@ Lee1 – Your first sentence is absolutely correct if you mean by ‘the UK’ its electorate but then you make some rather odd assumptions in contradiction. Maybe you are adopting the typically self righteous view that Remainers know better than the Electorate and therefore they must be overruled? If MPs indeed DID act as their Constituents voted (in the 2016 Referendum and in the 2017 GE) then the Withdrawal Agreement would have been passed by a majority of 100 at first asking and we would have left on March 29th. You see Lee what you seem to misunderstand is… Read more »
Remainers are not necessarily more intelligent however leavers are certainly the least likely to look up the truth. Boris has managed to lie repeatedly and his supporters know no different than his lies despite the truth being easily found online. My dad for instance has no idea how the EU works yet still repeatedly states the myths that have been peddled over the years. I told him to look it up and see for himself but he simply says “I don’t need to look up the truth as I know what has been said over the years” yep he basically… Read more »
Trump supporters don’t care what the truth is…he could be guilty of the most heinous crimes, and they would idiotically chant ‘fake news’. It the same reason people choose the same newspaper to read…they know that their prejudices will be pandered to. Websites like this are somewhat different, they do allow views to be challenged! But even then, when their preconceptions are outed as lies, they cry foul play! A good example of this is the way that Marc Francois deliberately hears things the way he wants to! Have a look at this video where Fatty Francois tries to stare… Read more »
One of the most irritating phrases ever in its various forms is Country before Party. If a politician did not believe their Party had the best interests of the nation at heart, then they should not have ran for election on the party platform.
Tosh. They could have thought that when they joined up and could have thought that for many years of service. However believing your parties principles are correct and believing that most of the policies are correct is different from ignoring all issues. For instance if I were a member of the Labour party I would not be supporting the antisemitic behaviour and would potentially vote against my party to prevent the behaviour. I can support my friends I can support a party but if any of them need telling that they are wrong then that is the correct thing to… Read more »
Party platforms or as they are called in the UK “manifestos” are publicly available and are declared every election. In the case of the Tory party one of the things campaigned on was “no deal is better than a bad deal”. If they disagreed so strongly they could have left the the party and campaigned under a different platform or as a independent.
If you campaigned as a Tory vote like one. If you campaign as Labour vote according to the party principles (which ostensibly do not allow for anti-semitism). To do otherwise means you lied to your voters.
The views of each MP were laid out for public view. Those that voted for them did so with that knowledge. (Or probably not if as normal, people simply voted as they always have… Those that stayed in the conservative party did so in the hope of changing the path from a no deal brexit to a soft brexit while still maintaining conservative party principles. Those principles are often pro business, however Boris seems to have burned that bridge. The only large supporter base left are the high earners and he helpfully pandered to us by promising less tax for… Read more »
We need to move very fast with the Americans, I would offer Nigel Farage a job as a special envoy, leading a group to liaise with the Trump administration, to help generate a great trade deal. You may not like Trump, or Mr Farage, but the planets are in alignment right now. Mr Farage could be a huge asset, with not a second to waste…. I would hope a backroom deal with the BREXIT Party will be underway very soon, with suitable assurances being given. Boris should give his administration one month from tomorrow to market and vote his new… Read more »
You mean do exactly what Trump says? When Trump tells us to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement, should we do that as well? Should execute criminals and send Brits back to where they “came from?”. Privatize the NHS to US health companies and watch them fleece the tax payer and make lots of manual errors due to incompetence/greed, anyone – CHICKENS COME HOME TO ROOST! This is exactly what I feared. We leave the EU colony to become the 51st State of the Union. We drop our pants, our standards and our principles simply as we have turned our… Read more »
Julian, we have been in Uncle Sam’s sphere of influence since WW2 and arguably a lot longer.
I don’t particularly like Mr Trump, or is views, but Presidents come and presidents go…
A good trade deal with the US is absolutely vital moving forward.
Don’t get caught up with Trump’s views, he’s a passing fad, our trade deal will last for many decades to come and numerous White House occupiers.
But that’s exactly my point. “a good trade deal” for the UK is impossible, we have nothing the US really needs. They may want some access to our markets but what do they want to import from us? We strike a trade deal when we are at our weakest and yet we are stuck with it for decades to come. By striking a deal you can pretty much guarantee that standards will drop and values will be forgotten. It’s very sad and as for mr farage, he is in no way qualified to be involved. He’s a spiv and will… Read more »
Well Julian, I’m afraid we will have to agree to disagree on this. I think we have a golden opportunity to move forward in the world, as an independent country. We stand side by side with the US as an important, but junior partner, as we always have, but with a free trade deal cementing our position. Our EU position was untenable, it’s time to turn it into a free trade agreement and let the EU go on their increasingly blinkered insular way, tying themselves up in more and more red tape and becoming less and less internationally relavent. As… Read more »
I’m interested to know what you think we’ll trade with the US. Here is a list of what I know America likes from the UK and will import and/or invest in and then I follow that with a list of what America could import/support but probably won’t since we compete with them (and do it very well.) The list is very incomplete and I’m looking for you to fill the gaps: Likes (we can do more of this:) Foodstuffs – Jam, cheese, chocolate Culture – music, movies, EPL, anything to do with Royal Family, tourism Fashion – UK designer brands… Read more »
Well Julian, we will have to see won’t we… A UK/ US free trade agreement with the US will more closely meet UK economic requirements than the current third party (one size fits all ) EU US market access agreement we currently have. Regarding Trump/ gas/oil, I say again, presidents come and go and at some point ( not far from now) the US will embrace renewable energy as China is, it’s simply the future economic reality… While Trump is definitely America first, he is an Anglophile and we will get a good deal, I am sure. Let’s be positive… Read more »
John, you still haven’t been able to give me a specific plan but not to worry, I wasn’t really expecting one. There is no economic case for Brexit, neither is there a humanist case. It is purely about sticking 2 fingers up at the EU and self interest. Trump is not an Anglophile, he just hates the EU and wants to pull the UK away. In that respect, he has the same agenda as Putin. This sorry story has a lot further to run yet, we’ll see how it pans out.
@ Julian1 – As Oddball said in Kelly’s Heroes: “There you go with all them negative waves!” You say “we have nothing the US really needs”. Really? The USA is the biggest inward investor in the UK and the UK is the biggest inward investor in the USA for a start. https://www.uschamber.com/international/europe/us-uk-business-council/us-uk-trade-and-investment-ties Our trade is about balanced (unlike with the EU) where in 2018 we exported some $60.8 Bn to the USA while importing some $66.3 Bn. We are the USA’s 4th largest market. So I would suggest we are mutually beneficial to each other and clearly the USA sees… Read more »
Very well put Chris…
Negative waves indeed …
A classic film John!
CHRIS , you’ve thrown a whole load of numbers which are quite meaningless. I want products and goods – what will they be? A small point but you misunderstand the whole notion of “chlorinated chicken”. The point of using chlorine in itself is that it is quite harmless to health – hence the EU uses it to wash salad and you probably bathe in it when you go to the swimming pool. However, in the US it is used to clean up the damage caused by otherwise sub-standard farming practices with regard to poultry. I know very well that there… Read more »
Farage is a Spiv. He looks, sounds like and behaves like one. Spends way too much time in the US pursuing his extremist agenda… That’s a little strong Julian! There’s nothing extreme about political and economic freedom my friend. I was shocked by that statement I dropped my monocle in my caviar! I could say plenty of disparaging things about overtly racist Labour remarks, that appear to be an almost unofficial anti Semitic policy, or the Lib Dems rather worrying contempt for the democratic vote. “Bollocks to BREXIT” Bollocks to Democracy more like.. One would suggest they drop ‘Democrats’ from… Read more »
@ John clark – I got to your ‘Monocle in Caviar’ comment and had a coffee / keyboard interface moment …
Its quite a comment on current politics when the Liberal Democrats have become THE most illiberal and undemocratic party in the UK and win votes …
and I’m sure you do so all is good
@ Julian1 – Well you have beaten me mate .. I provided a detailed summary and the source of my comments and to you that is ‘meaningless’? So I give up right there. Trade is trade is trade. It is whatever people wish to buy at that time and could be very different a year later. But the overall picture of a near balanced trading scenario IS consistent and one that the USA clearly values as we should.
So whatever I write will now be ‘meaningless’ and so I am out of anything further with you.
Farage an extremist? Now that is funny. Please refine your definitions on political extremism. The belief that “everyone who disagrees with me must be a extremist”, sounds like a very lonely existence.
Did I say that he is an extremist because I don’t agree with him? More like I don’t agree with him because he is an extremist. He has some very nasty views and aims. Do you agree with him?
Nasty views,like what then?
Romanians next door, utter disrespect for THeresa May and Phillip hammond..general contempt for many of his radio listeners, associates with Steve Bannon. You would have thought I had disrespected the Queen or Pope by the way you defend him.
Tell me why you think he’s a good person as I asume you worship him?
On a few things yes. On others? No. I am staunch American Conservative with a few Libertarian leanings. Disliking Theresa May or Philip Hammond doesn’t seem to be a uncommon view so I don’t understand why you would list it? Contempt for his radio listeners? Well his listeners don’t seem to think so. No I don’t think it is like you disrespected the Queen or Pope. For one I am a Methodist so really don’t give a damn about the Pope, and as she is not my Queen I don’t care. My question essentially boils down to – What is… Read more »
Leaving the EU on any basis is quite extreme. Why? Because no one has ever done it. Being prepared to leave without a deal (and in fact, given his way, he would have left within 3 months after the referendum without even attempting a deal) is even more extreme. Combined with his love affair with all things Trumpian and his willingness to break the mold, he is extreme. For the UK anyway. Some (not me) would argue the UK needs extremists. Does that clear matters up for you?
A extreme view is not one that enjoys majority or even a large amount of support within the electorate.
As for how he would left 3 months after the referendum? Well in the US that is how referendums work. If a State has one and doesn’t enforce the result immediately they run afoul of their separate Constitutions.
Willingness to break the mold? That used to be a sought after trait.
The rest of your reasoning boils down to – “orange man bad”.
I think Brexit is far more complex and profound than any State matter. It’s the way the mold is broken particularly in an ancient system. It’s all about where you are on the spectrum, the US sits on another part of the spectrum..that’s why gun control, abortion, comprehensive public health systems are not considered radical (extreme) in Europe and indeed the developed world, but are in the US. I get it.
Well said Chris.
I did not rise to the “spiv” jibe, but I was sorely tempted to.
if I had known calling Farage a spiv would upset so many Brexiters, I would have done it sooner and more frequently. I often listen to his show on LBC as I like seeing him brawl. He’s actually pretty good at that – many people call him far worse than Spiv and its like water off a duck’s back to him.
Water off a duck’s back it may be…however, milkshakes seem to upset him much more. The bombastic charlatan!
We are the a large market to the US for goods and that is without a deal. They will not want that to be eroded by a deal that allows us to export more than we import and they will use to opportunity to make sure it is the other way. The US does not like to have a trade deficit with other countries. It currently does with the UK and will be looking for this to change so that it has a trade surplus. Let’s also not forget that Trump recently put scotch whisky under import tax rises. We… Read more »
@ Lee1 – And when all else fails a Remainer will always be guaranteed to push out the old ‘NHS for sale’ myth. Give up Lee your ‘facts’ are just opinions, your allegations have been disproved every time and you are now just trying to score stupid points. The EU does not fix pharma prices for a start. And if the NHS has big buying power how does that change? Companies will sell to where the volume buyers are and that will not change. Have a read of this and get back to us with sourced facts where any of… Read more »
Lee, Trump said himself he wanted the NHS to be included in trade talks when he visited – he was then swiftly advised to back-track by Woody Johnson. However, you’re right and of course the NHS will be on the table. I hope if it was turned over, there would have to be some carrot so huge for the UK that it would prove irresistible but even then I would have severe reservations because of course there will always be victims. The US health system actually provides brilliant care if you’re lucky enough to be able to afford a health… Read more »
As long as it ain’t Hillary and her cohorts.
That makes no sense… So you are fine with Trump and his policies that are against all known science? Yet you hate Gary who is no longer an option for president? Hmmm I bet you have a MAGA hat too…
Make Albion Great Again,that’s an idea!
In my daughter’s high school, apparently quite a few of the kids believe the world is flat. I can’t believe it personally (the belief, not that the world is flat) but some of the teachers have confirmed that view. We live in a Republican seat within a Democrat state…
Indeed, science has already taken a beating from the religious nuts in certain areas of the US with creationism. Trump is not helping by peddling his own brand of science (namely that which confirms anything he says) I mean he has launched his own plastic straws to combat the communist paper ones! And this is the president we want to do a deal with!!!!
I am not aware of any Republicans who believe that the world is flat. A few fundamentalists who believe in creationism? Yes. Flat Earthers? No. Idiot does not know a political ideology. For example I know of a Democratic Rep who believed Guam was going to tip over. Also seriously the paper straws because of moral panic over a damn turtle was a little rich. Especially since if you have any friend or family who are disabled you would know that they despise paper straws. Trumps plastic straw thing was just another fund raiser and another barb at people who… Read more »
Agree Julian. For all the post imperial global bluster the UK is too vulnerable to stand alone in a world which will be dominated by China- it is their century.
A Bojo Brexit means we have chosen to be the 51st state of America rather than a significant influence in the EU. We have chosen to align with an essentially Masonic US culture rather than a European Catholic culture.
Roll up your trowser leg and take the oath brother !
Morning Julian and Paul,
You guys are perfectly entitled to your remain position and I always enjoy a healthy democratic debate.
I regularly do business in Europe and have absolutely nothing against our European brothers.
I just think Britain is better off in charge of its own destiny, as did the majority in the democratic vote that sealed this position.
It’s happening, like it or not, so lets all push forward together and embrace a new future.
Have a great weekend guys
@ John Clark – I can add nothing more than just say ‘Well Said Sir!’
Have a good weekend.
It was in charge of its own destiny already, people just have no idea how the EU works and did not ever want to know. It suited them to be able to blame all the issues on the EU rather than their own elected officials. Boris has still been doing this. Last week he combined about EU laws harming our kipper industry. It was a total lie. The laws he was talking about are UK laws but that did not suit his argument… Making it a EU issue meant that he gained support against the enemy despite the enemy in… Read more »
Hi Lee, It’s good that you’re passionate about your position, I can certainly respect that. I do quite a lot of business in France ( mainly Normandy and Brittany) and have certainly noticed an increasingly anti EU sentiment there in certain quarters, building progressively over the last three years. There’s a growing distance between the Paris EU centric liberal middle classes and the general population in the provances. It’s certainly not something contained to the UK. I’m 51, so never got the opportunity to vote to join the common Market, many people voted yes back then, because A, the UK… Read more »
I am looking to the future. It is sadly not one that appears to be in the UK… I will be taking my skills somewhere else if we leave with no deal. I am the most patriotic person you can get but I will not have my life adversely affected out of pure spite and lies. Remember the common market vote was one of a specific majority (ie it had to reach 60% unlike the dumb 50/50 vote for brexit). So a clear majority took us in and it has benefitted us greatly ever since. We are no longer an… Read more »
Morning Lee, are we all insomniacs!? I’m curious, as a patriot, how do you square the circle of the loss of national identity and Sovereignty that’s coming down the road for all EU members? I’m not doubting your patriotism, just curious how you would feel about the loss of the pound and individual national vetos? Do you regard the above as a necessary sacrifice for the good of all in the EU? European first mindset, (a common ethos I find on the continent), nothing wrong with that position whatsoever, it’s a pre requisite for EU support really. I think these… Read more »
Suppose a Democrat President in 2020 and BoJo or similar in No 10. Can you imagine the grovelling?
That’s good i’m not a Catholic.
Not a Catholic …. Be careful what you say Marc, no-one expects the Spanish inquisition!
@ John Clark – Ah yes: Cardinal Fang and his friends…
Although personally I always wanted to be a Lumberjack…
Funnily enough many National Socialists were!
Are you sure you are English? have some backbone man.
Yep on all of them.
Yep let’s get stuffed by the US! Let’s face it, any deal with them is going to heavily be in their favour. I do not really want to eat chlorinated chicken…. I also like the medicine prices to be controlled…
the medicine prices are outrageous – and that is just for generics!!
Unfortunately Johnson made no reference to the military during his first speech as PM. I was very hopeful a few days ago but seems it may not be a priority after all.
He did T.S. But very brief and nothing more than paying tribute, the usual political guff. No commitments.
I remember Gordon Brown paying tribute to the military during his leaving speech outside no 10, and look how he performed.
How could he? There will be no money to pay for the military expansions! We are likely to be around £30billion worse off per year! In fact it is likely that there will be cutbacks rather than new spend…
IF Brexit happens. There is no way that it is sorted yet. I predict at least six months of chaos , getting worse when and if we leave in one piece. As for B J on assessing defence needs, if he’s as good at this as he was when foreign secretary God help us.
I’m usually fairly confident with my posts John but the idea of having a British Trump fills me with dread. I would love to be proved completely wrong.
He has no wriggle room whatsoever Geoffrey ….zip … Zero….bugger all….., he has to have a fully matured and thought out plan, that needs to be enacted this week to achieve what he’s promised.
It’s the 11th hour, we will see exactly how much of what he’s said proves to be hot air or bullish action very, very soon.
The team is shaping up nicely for bulldozering out on October 31.
One things for sure, an election is just round the corner…..
Just like the cabinet, Parliament needs a good clear out with a stiff yard broom.
Can’t argue with this Iohn. Like I said. I am happy to be proved wrong.
I’d leave it till 2022. Get Brexit done and for people to see actually they are not in a Gaulish village and the sky has not fallen on their heads.
Although they may not have a job and their houses may not be worth what they paid for them. £30 billion is a lot of money to make back up when we have not got any companies or workforce left to generate it.
The problem is he talks a lot about what is bad about the deal but never states what he actually wants, which I suspect means he hasn’t a clue. This will impact the military also. Talk of not enough frigates and insufficient xyz but no talk about fixing it. Let’s hope I’m wrong but it seems successive defence ministers talk a good game but never are tied down on details of what it actually means ala the 192b figure. Johnson is the master of not being tied down on details and I suspect that means same of the old stuff,… Read more »
Of course he has not got a clue. He purposefully avoided any questions about what his plans were. Remember he was a EU fan until the day he decided to run for Brexit campaign. I don’t think he though leave would win and then he would have been the lead figure on the anti-EU side of the party but in a good position as he would not have been the one keeping us in so he would have ousted Cameron. He would then have been PM in charge of a prosperous UK in the EU. However he did not think… Read more »
Can’t wait to see the design of the Borris Tank.
spot on geoffrey.
It seems to me that there are still no certainties re Brexit. All outcomes remain possible from leave no deal, leave with deal, remain. Sorted on 31/10 or further delayed, General election tory win or hung parliament. Maybe Labour win but unlikely. Johnson or Corbyn as PM or some compromise candidate. Second referendum leading to remain or still leave.
Nothing can be decisively ruled out yet. We continue to live in a period of massive uncertainty. Johnson’s bluff and bluster doesn’t change that fact.
Very true, but Boris has promised and a politicians promise is worth …. Very little to be honest… But, let’s try and be positive, he’s constructed an EU exiting bulldozer of a cabinet and he appears to have got the Germans nervous, so that’s a good start. Parliament will put up the barricades and try to resist the tide of change, so a general election is absolutely on the cards, perhaps within a month or so. I personally think Boris can win a good working majority ( perhaps not a landslide), especially as a number of Tory remain MP’s could… Read more »
I very much doubt Boris is going to be re-elected by his constituents unless he stops the third runway at Heathrow being built!
I never understood the LHR option. Gatwick for me but then my UK house is right under the LHR northern runway flight path. seriously, why put all eggs in the LHR basket, it makes no sense and the plans for the M25 are miserable
Cor yes! Close M25 to divert it into a tunnel?? We will feel the effects of that down my way.
Boris also promised £350 million per week to multiple things and recently criticised the EU for harming the UK kipper industry (the law he was moaning about was a UK law not EU law ..) so I am not sure I trust him to tell the truth about anything especially given the very vague promise….
10 T31s on top of the 8 T26s and 6 T45s would seem appropriate, as long as they are appropriately armed. No way are we going to afford more T26s. The T31 is by far our best hope of increasing the fleet. I’m not sure the RAF has the option of going cheaper or it will end up with 3 fast jet types, with all the associated logistic and maintenance costs that go with it. Might be best to stick with Typhoon and F35B. Whatever happens let’s hope defence gets more funding, although the list of spending pledges is already… Read more »
https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2019/07/to-build-deployable-navy-royal-navy.html
“to build a deployable navy…”
Also nice to add a couple of T45’s as all the design work has been done and they are still one of if not the most advanced vessel of its type in the world. As to where is the money coming from I personally feel the economic model needs to be looked at in a different light. If we build ships in the UK (non combatant), if we increase the manning levels including more Police, the tax take and salary spend remains mostly within the country. Then on top of that there should be less crime, more respect, more employment… Read more »
No need for more T45’s at all – the T26 is far superior and we should order at least 13 and improve the radars on all of them so that they are dual ASW, AAW destroyers. That then makes an enhanced T31 (24 Mk41 VLS) our GPF To be built over the next 25 years, replacing the MCM and OPV fleets as we go along. 13 – 130m (T31) – Absalon class equivalent 13 – 130m (T32) – Huitfeldt class equivalent 13 – 150m (T26) – The UK Arleigh Burke Class The reality is that we are very close to… Read more »
Are you proposing the last 5 T26s(9 to 13) will be duel ASW and AAW? Most likely some redesign need undertaken. The design for the first 3 is already set in stone as ASW frigates. Second T26 due to start build in mid Aug., the 3rd build start Apr. 21. (25, 20 months).
No – I am saying all of them should be upgraded to be dual ASW/AAW destroyers with the last 5 replacing the T45 hulls in a managed way. This gives us jam today and jam tomorrow by giving us a scheduled replacement for T45, an increased high end capability as essentially we will have 13 carrier escorts (6 per carrier group) and releases more money for the T31 fleet which can take the Artisan radars that will no longer be required for this class. For very little additional cost we get a significant capability uplift and the T26 gets another… Read more »
It will not be possible to upgrade the early T26 frigate builds to dual ASW/AAW destroyers, without extensive modification to the foredeck to accommodate a destroyer complement of VLS cells.
It will require a redesign of a later batch 3(9 to 13) T26 to accommodate this variant’s modifications to the superstructure to allow for the increase of the VLS load.
Any attempt to redesign batch 2 will result in a 2 to 3 year delay of T26 procurement at a critical time of replacement of the old T23 frigates.
So building work on T26 would Not restart again until 2026 if a redesign is made to batch 2
T26 to upgrade to dual destroyer(ASW/AAW) standard.
You would need to reduce batch 2 T26 to 3 hulls, and proced to batch 3 build with a new variant.
Not sure that right Meirion X. The T26 is already far superior to the T45 in terms of VLS load (72 against 48 with 24 of these being Mk41 Strike length) all that really needs done is for the seaceptor VLS to become Sylver/Mk41 tactical length so they can take Aster Ballistic (NT) and allow for seaceptor quad packing. This is a relatively inexpensive upgrade that should be done anyway. Where work would be required is on the Radar as Sampson is significantly heavier and any upgrade here is likely to require changes to the superstructure. Bear in mind though… Read more »
Pie in the sky,can’t crew them and can’t afford to fuel them.
Maybe. What astounds me is that in the 70s-early 80s we had 50+ escorts of several classes all manned & funded, but we’re told we’re actually richer now. I think what’s happened is every financial squeeze has been used as a pretext to tax the ordinary people more, cut what HMG delivers back whilst the richest(private & corporate) steadily see their tax bills proportionately plummet by hook or crook. If we had an end-of-cold-war bonus, it didn’t seem to go to the public purse. The Tories still find a spare billion quid for bribes or vanity schemes like HS2 or… Read more »
T26 requires half the crew of a T23 or T45, so we can crew them.
There is also a growing realisation that the navy in particular is grossly undermanned and needs more people to meet harmonisation guidelines and actually make it a career people want and one that should have to compromise family life so much.
So we can crew them with what we have now, but we really need another 6k sailors at the very least.
The need for more hulls Daniele. Always the problem. If Iran has shown anything it’s the need to deploy numbers capable of scaring off small craft and/or helo’s. T45 and T26 are for the carriers and amphibious ships. I would proceed with the T31, concentrating on anti/air capability as I do not believe we can cope with six ships. What we need NOW is hulls and I come back again to the idea of an FPB type that can be built in large numbers.An up to date version of the Brave class is the type am talking about. A range… Read more »
Morning Geoffrey. I agree.
Could a RFA type act as mother ship for these FAC types? Is that even feasible?
I had it in mind that they could operate out of HMS Jufair and/or Duqm initially but also in the Med and the Caribbean on anti piracy and working against the drug trade etc. They really need to be based permanently overseas so yes I think the idea of a support ship is a good idea, particularly for the latter station. A variation on the Bay Class? Ideal for the Caribbean,a multi purpose ship.
HI Geoffrey I am a big fan of the safeboats mk6. Think these fit the bill as does a CB90 as both can carry the kit and people you are looking at (or close enough) and in the case of a CB90 could be dispatched from a properly configured T31 (as they are from the absalon class, or a Karel Doorman style JLSS. To be honest – the UK should be taking a lead from Iran in that the asymmetrical threat we could develop with out budget is where we should have been focusing instead of the old big pieces.… Read more »
A lot of truth in what you sat Pacman but we’ve got the big boys now.
The Mark 6 would certainly fit the bill whereas I think the CB 90 is more of fast marine attack boat.
Have you seen the new article on Bae ‘s auto.boat yet?
Yes – think its a little bit away and I also dont think unmanned is suitable for everything. What I do think is that the RN should buy 30 lots of Atlas MCM and also 100 sets of Siebel S100’s today.. These things work and would give us a massive uptick, also lets get the new Marlet 30mm addition on all vessels. There is stuff we can and should do with certain enabling systems and others we should reconsider For me a JLSS with 8 CB90’s and 2 S2s connectors and 6 Merlins is far in excess of what any… Read more »
Yup I been thinking and saying on twitter something similar – my thought initially is get cb-90 as uor to deploy to gulf. Fit 2 x multi launch martlet and additional dual 50 cals / mini gun. Fix hvm x2 for point defence and they patrol in pairs. Man then with mix of RN /RM so we don’t have problem with numbers. Then send out request for custom design patrol boat with I thought 40mm off Ajax / aesa radar fit / room for small uav and pretty much same weapon fit as above / possibly even couple heavier missiles.… Read more »
In a theater like the Gulf the Iranians have plenty of systems to quickly take out FPBs. I’ve always liked them but the Gulf wars showed they could quickly be dealt with. We need the whole package on all our escorts, not half capable ships like T45s which can’t do as well v subs. If we don’t grow numbers it’s imperative that none of our tiny fleet are deficient in any area/threat.
The problem remains Frank that we do not have enough hulls. The only improvement that can be made to a T45 is to add Cruise which should happen anyway…but to put a billion pound Destroyer up against a couple of motor launches with machine guns is crazy. If we are to grow numbers the FPB/Corvette route seems very sensible to me. Anything the Iranians could fire at an FPB they could fire at a bigger vessel.
I Very much agree witb You!
we must not make the army any smaller. I do recognize that RN and RAF are funding priorities but the army must not reduce further. By all means restructure – less heavy armour and more helicopters/airmobile AND perhaps shift some infantry to the RM but don’t reduce mass further. This structure will be based on an assumption that future wars will be expeditionary with a likely naval insertion/marine flavour or strategic airlift component to it. Gone are the days of 2 or 3 heavy UK armoured divisions fighting in Germany. We are turning our backs on the Europeans after all.
@Julian1 – I was sort of with you until your unnecessarily sarcastic “We are turning our backs on the Europeans after all”. Pathetic. No we are NOT turning our backs on anyone indeed we wish to establish a close and enduring security and trading relationship with our European friends and neighbours (as most of them wish to do with us). What we decided we did NOT want is to be ruled by the unelected bureaucrats and political structures of the EU in Brussels and Strasbourg and have the everyday lives of British citizens and of every UK business regulated by… Read more »
the trust will be gone, collaboration will be less. NATO is under threat now
@ Julian1 – Sadly this what Remainers always do. Just peddle anything negative they can think of and make out its inevitable. Sorry Julian you are so very wrong. Sadly of course you make a sweeping short statement that then needs a detailed reply Any loss of trust is not inevitable but will be because the EU will have sought to put its beloved ‘Project’ before the best interests of its member states. I totally accept that it has no duty to look after UK’s interests but as a good neighbour on whom it has relied for massive amounts of… Read more »
I could say the same for brexiteers, blaming EU for everything!
Those plans for collaboration are in place now, but with a no deal and walk away, some may well fall through, especially with the non-nordics. The relationship will change whether you like that or not.
Perhaps you’ll notice that in euro-holidays to come
@ Julian1 – I totally agree with you that the relationship will change. That is exactly what I and 17.4 Mn others voted for! That is not in dispute. Where I fundamentally disagree with EU Luvvies and Remainers is that where they see ‘no other way’ and forecast doom and destruction at every turn I see there are ‘many different ways’ and generally more positive ways as well. When we were in an EEC with 12 other similar nations it worked well because it was a trading based organisation with light touch regulation that saw no need for flags, anthems… Read more »
I fully agree with you on this Rob
We will end up with 3 Type 26’s and 12 Type 31e’s costing £333.33 million each.
Sigh… thanks for your erudite input
I’d prefer 8 T26, 6 T45 for the carrier and 8 T31 and 8 River B2 for other tasks, joined by the 2 LSS that were reported last year, full of RM, their boats, and helicopters, or acting as a mother ship for smaller FAC types.
How useful would the LSS be now in the Gulf.
Wishing for dozens more T26 is fantasy, but an uplift in second tier assets is not, allied with an uplift in people.
Daniele,
Agreed.
Does anyone have any updates on the slight issue we have had recently on QE?
She sunk in port! Ooops that’s Argentina’s Navy that does that!
Naaaa, that’s the Ruski carrier… 😀
Sorry, cheap shot…
200 tonne of cascading down three decks a slight issue.,sheesh!
Not necessarily fantasy Daniele We do need to replace T45 at some point and the timing does fit in nicely with the current T26 schedule, it would also leverage the cost of the design and surely an acoustically quiet hull is needed for anything this size, especially if you have one. We need to be far better and lifecycling our premium products through the fleet over time, the T23 hull was cutting edge in its time and according to gunbusters is still one of the best. We could have saved a load of money by fitting the Spartan design into… Read more »
Hi Pacman.
I agree. But I’m sceptical we would ever do anything as sensible as that. After all, designing from scratch again and ignoring tried and tested designs keeps the Military Industrial Complex designers in the money. Industry wants as much HMG money as possible.
Where’s the work for them if we reuse a tried and tested hull?
Sorry, cynical daniele at the moment. If it is so simple why time and time again is HMG milked?
Daniele, dont apologise It is people like us who are keeping people accountable. I will continue to remind people that the term T31 came from the think Defence site, so clearly these sites are being monitored. I make a living out of fixing broken programmes and have done now for 20 years. Often it is the lack of clarity, design by committee and importantly lack of ownership that are at the core of failure. The first thing I do is make some big decisions and set the tone for the rest of it. You can tell the MOD is in… Read more »
Want a job in the MoD!?
Not at all
Whenever I have gone for a job in the public service side, I dont get it, which is probably for the best as I think they want a certain type of person…
I think it is too, Daniele! See my post above on T26 modifications will result in delays to T26 procurement.
Local MP finally has some importance out there! Now I can send E-Mails with purpose (JK He’d never listen to a random internet dweller)
I thought penny would last and do great things! Let’s hope Ben Wallace lasts longer and fights for the Millitary and an increase in assets, first order 10 type 31s, surely would be cheaper per ship to order 10.
Seems a shame Penny,’s been kicked out she was making all the right noises about increasing the surface fleet and re-catagorising rfa as sovereign builds.
A Jock,that’s Devonport buggered then.
He’s not a Jock, he was born in Kent and is MP for Preston, he just served in the Scots Guards and was for a time an MSP.
Just be thankful he’s military regardless of colours
Probably gone native by now.
I read that Penny M supported Hunt.
I’m disappointed that Hunt did not get the Chancellor’s job. Having campaigned for more defence money he could have put his money where his mouth is when in the Treasury.
At least the new SoSD is ex military, and has been in defence related areas, like DSTL.
From what I can make of yesterdays events,it seems that Mr Johnson offered the Minister for Defence position to Jeremy Hunt,who viewed it as being a demotion and declined the offer.Once Penny Mordaunt was aware that her position had been offered to someone else she had no other option to step aside.
A shame Paul. Seems very harsh.
Jeremy Hunt turned down the job, because he felt
by accepting the job, would be taking the MoD job
from Penny Mordant by default. He was Not going to take that bite!
Sandhurst trained says it all.
Don’t be fooled by the Bojo circus…it may have entertainment value…but it’s all smoke and mirrors! The cabinet is 3rd rate, with some of its members barely recognisable as modern Conservatives (some of them should have been expelled from the party, as they are nothing more than cheap reactionaries)! None of them will last….the plug will be pulled by Halloween through a vote of no confidence. Too many disaffected Tories on the back-benches who will not tolerate a no deal Brexit. A general election looms and, hopefully, a cleansing of the Augean stables. Time to divert ‘Old Father Thames’ through… Read more »
Tell us what you really think?
I don’t believe a no-confidence motion can get through (to prevent no deal brexit by 31st Oct) unless it’s tabled today and with Labour laughing off Jo Swinson’s attempt…
You will have to ask Corbyn that one….does he have a cunning plan?
Unless he wants a no deal Brexit? He’s very anti-EU and may well believe it could get him into power.
Would be nice to think that some of the bastards would put country before party!
This will probably be near the top of defense discussions…
https://news.usni.org/2019/07/24/esper-u-s-will-provide-intel-to-allies-keep-middle-east-merchant-ships-safe-not-warship-escorts
Cheers
RN now running convoys in all but name (confirmed). Boris just answered a question in the commons to the effect of that he wants an increase in defence spending with an emphasis on ship building. Encouraging, but more detail and thought needed.
Boris doesn’t appear to do detail!
We shall see. I guess the budget will tell us.
Don’t forget, the new leader of the house believes half the foreign aid budget should be spent on defence £7 Billion. So we have one member of the government applying a modicum of common sense!
Looks like somethings being put together…
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-europe-exclusive/exclusive-britain-wins-early-european-support-for-hormuz-naval-mission-idUSKCN1UI2C9
Cheers!
Delicate diplomacy at play here it seems, and that’s just between allied nations.
It would be nice to think that ‘cool calm heads’ are working on a solution….the ‘men from the ministry’. I suspect that most are off on their holidays whilst a handful run around squawking like chickens with their fanny feathers on fire!
It’s probably just the janitorial staff! 😀
More: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-usa-europe/u-s-sees-european-maritime-security-effort-in-gulf-as-complementary-idUSKCN1UJ23D
Cheers!
I do think that ship building works well with Brexit. Even ignoring the military imperative my view is that at least in the short term (a 5-year Parliament), and very probably in the medium term too, some UK economic stimulus will be very helpful to offset any downside effects on the UK economy. Economic growth through increased consumer spending is also sub-optimal as consumer debt is worryingly high already. Ship building (assuming that it’s in the UK) ticks all the boxes for good economic stimulus in terms of employment and skills development, supporting a second tier network of suppliers hopefully… Read more »
I thought I had it all figured out. Leander would be chosen and one would be named HMS Penelope. That said, I’m still pretty confident that should the T31 project proceed, Leander will be selected.
I applaud Ben Wallace for his service to his country in both political and military circles. However, I do think at this particular moment in time, we need a defence secretary who understands the needs of the Royal Navy. Penny was best placed to do that.
I think the Leander needs some redesigning,
the foredeck(bow area) on the Leander is too cramped, it will always be wet. It needs to be lengthened and space out a few metres. This would allow more Sea Ceptor cells be fitted to the Leander, and a new proper replacement for Harpoon with total anti- surface capability.
I am sure BAe can do better!
Let’s apply to be defence minister- it’s only fair – everyone else gets a go.
Wouldn’t it be great if Boris picked up the phone to his mate Donald and said something like the following
Hi Donald, you know we buy all that really good kit off you, how about you returning the favour and going for the Type 26 for your new frigate design. This would make the T26 the standard across the 5 eyes alliance and we will upgrade ours with CEC so it works with all partners.
Think about it – the F35 of the seas…..
Oh and you can build it in the US… that’s all good
‘Don’t forget our nice and shiny new QE carriers. Two carriers for the price of a Ford class. We’ll build the first one for you and you can build the next seven in the US.’
I agree. We should really be pushing the Type 26 and the QE’s.
I feel very uncomfortable with the sacking of Penny Mordaunt. I thought she was ideal for the post. She certainly seemed to be doing a very good job as Defence Secretary and her dismissal was not warranted in my opinion. Boris Johnson has been ruthless since he came to power. Time will tell however if it comes back to bite him in future.
She didn’t send any ships to the gulf and one of our tankers got taken hostage after repeated warnings from the Iranians.
A few days after a new defence secretary is in the post and we now have tankers being escorted.
I think that says it all.
Sad to see Penny go, she seemed to be well liked by MoD. Hope he can fill in her shoes.