The Ministry of Defence say that the long-term home for the fleet of submarine-hunting aircraft in Moray, Scotland, will be known as the Atlantic Building.

According to a news release:

“The Atlantic Ocean was, and remains, of vital strategic importance to the United Kingdom.  During WWII the UK required more than a million tons of shipping to be delivered per week to survive which was jeopardised by the devastating losses inflicted on Allied shipping convoys by enemy submarines. 

CXX Squadron re-formed as a Maritime Patrol Squadron and deployed to Iceland in 1941 where they served with distinction and courage in the Battle of the Atlantic rapidly becoming the most successful Antisubmarine Warfare Squadron in history.”

Aerial shot of Atlantic Building, car parks and aircraft visible too.
The Atlantic Building

Jeremy Quin, Defence Minister, was quoted as saying:

“The state-of-the-art ‘Atlantic Building’ enables our Poseidon fleet to perform their vital role for UK defence. T he building’s name reflects the heritage of CXX Squadron and the importance of the aircraft’s mission to protect our maritime interests.  This fantastic facility is a key part of Defence’s £360m investment in RAF Lossiemouth, which has created and supported hundreds of jobs in Moray.”

Alister Jack, Scottish Secretary, said:

“This crucial facility serves as an important reminder as to why RAF Lossiemouth is one of the most key military air stations in western Europe.  The fleet of Poseidon submarine hunting aircraft based here are vital to maintaining the security of the UK and our NATO allies by providing constant vigilance to threats on and under the sea and protecting the UK’s nuclear deterrent.  The Atlantic Building – part of a £360m investment in the air base, creating and supporting hundreds of jobs locally – demonstrates powerfully how important defence is to Scotland and how important Scotland is to the defence of the UK and NATO.”

You can read more here.

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Reaper
Reaper
19 days ago

It would have been nice to have had Kinloss for the p8s, but Lossiemouth looks great with all the new infrastructure making it a bigger better base.

Steve Salt
Steve Salt
19 days ago

Not much imagination in the name department !

Reaper
Reaper
19 days ago
Reply to  Steve Salt

Yeah, “Submarine murder department” sounds good.

Andy P
Andy P
19 days ago
Reply to  Steve Salt

Agreed Steve, its a bit underwhelming, still could be worse, they could have gone for the even more bog standard Queen Elizabeth….. Hospital/building/dock/train/ship/ships cat/anything that is or isn’t nailed down.

Something tough like ‘Havoc’ or Reapers suggestion is maybe a bit warlike for our current approach to defence though I suppose.

Coll
Coll
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Very underwhelming.

Steve Salt
Steve Salt
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

I would of thought that any of the U boat hunter VC winners would have been suitable like John Cruikshank ( who’s still alive ) or Lloyd Trigg maybe 🤔

Andy P
Andy P
18 days ago
Reply to  Steve Salt

Good shout mate, maybe get an aircraft named after them you would hope.

Springer
Springer
18 days ago
Reply to  Steve Salt

They mentioned WW2 so could have gone with Sunderland or Catalina Building to link the importance those aircraft played in sub hunting, they were the long range MPAs at the time I think?

John Hartley
John Hartley
17 days ago
Reply to  Springer

Or Hudson or Liberator.

George Parker
George Parker
17 days ago
Reply to  Steve Salt

I don’t see what was wrong with Poseidon Building. K.I.S.S.

Nick C
Nick C
19 days ago

Does anyone know when the full 9 will be delivered? I assume that we are now past IOC, but when will full capability be achieved. It would be good to think we might get some more before the production line shuts but I suspect that we will see more drones in the future.

Mark
Mark
19 days ago
Reply to  Nick C

Haven’t we just flew a MQ9B sea guardian from waddington to Holland and back, what different sensors to a P8 does the sea guardian have.

PaulW
PaulW
19 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Love the idea of using drones for sub hunting. Seriously good application of swarm theory. Stick a bunch of Stringray torpedos under the wing, and you have yourself a game changer. Sub commanders would hate the thought of them lurking about.

Paul42
Paul42
18 days ago
Reply to  Nick C

Remaining aircraft due to be delivered by the end of this year…

Nick C
Nick C
18 days ago
Reply to  Paul42

Thanks Paul.

Meirion X
Meirion X
18 days ago
Reply to  Paul42

Anyone know when the USN are to withdraw their P8’s from the UK?

Johan
Johan
18 days ago
Reply to  Nick C

USN And RAAF have just placed another order for 12 airframes 10 to USN and 2 RAAF, and with current orders expect the production line to continue until the end of the decade as the 737-800ERX is a hi-bread of the 737 lines.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
18 days ago
Reply to  Johan

Even just a few more P8s added to the RAF fleet would be handy. Concentrating so much ASW/AEW type air assets in the one place under one hangar seems a bit risky too me. I understand the need for an HQ for all this but wouldn’t having these ASW/AEW assets spread over two bases be less risky? Let’s hope this airbases have a good level of SAM defense like Sky Sabre. It maybe peace time now but you wouldn’t want to show potential adversaries too much of what you have and exactly where it is.

Lusty
Lusty
18 days ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Aye, particularly given the recent articles which noted the fact that pooling all assets of a similar type at only a handful of bases is a bad idea in times of war. Yes, they can disperse, but even then.

Part of me would like an additional fleet based at St Mawgan or Culdrose. I guess the latter would be more likely, particularly as it already serves ASW assets.

Hopefully, we will see the fleet increase in future years. But for now, it is what it is I guess.

Steve Salt
Steve Salt
18 days ago
Reply to  Lusty

Indeed, Culdrose would be ideal and keep the Cornish connection with the resident aircraft numbered as 42 Sqn.

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen
18 days ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

I agree, it is very risky, not mean to mention the fact that submarines can appear anywhere around the coast so placing all our P-8s on one end of the country seems stupid to me.

Airborne
Airborne
17 days ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Sorry Q no RAF base currently has any full time allocated AD, plus there’s only enough Sky Sabre for one Army Regiment with 3 Batteries, and they are/will be allocated to our one deployable wafer thin Division. Sad, criminal in fact but true.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
17 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

With the 24(?) sets of Sky Sabre on order what exactly are they for? Can they deploy anywhere? Are they battery sets or individual trucks? As an aside, wondering if they will develop a Iron Done type launcher with 15 Camm on it, it could be a goer. I also saw containerised Camm on the Venator vessel. If that was developed further it can be applied to any vessel with deck container spots, so OPVs, RFAs, even the carriers could potentially have some slot in Camm cover. The Mod/Industry needs to get behing Camm more. Even a hypersonic Camm. They’re… Read more »

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
17 days ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Or, hopefully they’re doing something more behind the scenes.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
17 days ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Wheeled, so they are self deployable. As A says they deploy with 3 ( UK ) Divisions brigades in conjunction with the Stormer/Starstreak vehicles of 12RA. Number per battery will depend on what is the org of 16RA after the latest restructuring. Currently I have it as – Regimental HQ.     20 HQ Battery.        11 ( Sphinx )  Battery.              32 ( Minden ) Battery.               30 Battery ( Rogers Company ) 14 ( Cole’s Cop ) Battery.        R E M E LAD. JAPPLE Unit. One fire battery is routinely deployed in the SA. Whether they are 4 to a battery or will be 6 and one battery is placed in “suspended animation” I… Read more »

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
17 days ago

Thanks Daniele, I’m not up on anymore this information. They’ve ordered a specific quantity so there must be planned allocation behind it. It doesn’t look like the MAN Camm trucks can fire when moving so mobile shorad is just Stormer/Starstreak. I wonder if they’re looking at ER version of the Starsreak as every extra km makes it more useful. It will be interesting to see what comes out of DSEI for the army.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
17 days ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

*sorry my typo…anymore…any of this information.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
17 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Yes, pretty reckless state of affairs. Sam defense of air bases, sea ports, sub bases, army etc, I thought that would be a given and a bit more premptive thinking needed especially for defending against sub launched cruise /ballistic missiles. I know it’s peacetime and maybe it’s a of unnecessary parannoia but the increasing Russian sub fleet and its reach of all their missiles over Europe is a real worry.

Klonkie
Klonkie
17 days ago
Reply to  Johan

I think that brings the RAAF P8 numbers to14. Seems like a workable number.

Steven McColm
Steven McColm
18 days ago
Reply to  Nick C

According to the number crunchers we need 15 maritime patrol aircraft to stand a chance against the Russians. The Lockheed P-3C Orion is the likest contender although talks with the Canadian’s have taken place. Surplus Dassault Atlantic ATL1s are another option. The retired C-130Js could also be used but I doubt it. The Airbus A400M Atlas has also been penciled in. Time to use the Avro Shackleton again.

David Steeper
David Steeper
18 days ago
Reply to  Steven McColm

There are still a couple of Sunderlands out there in flying condition !   :wpds_wink: 

Nick C
Nick C
18 days ago
Reply to  Steven McColm

Now there is a thought, there must be a few Shack airframes in museums! Except I seem to remember that they were extremely slow getting anywhere, and pretty noisy inside as well.

Klonkie
Klonkie
17 days ago
Reply to  Steven McColm

Don’t knock the good old Shack Steven! I have fond memories of those fine old birds from my time in the SAAF. They only bowed out in 1985. If memory serves, the RAF were operating them in the AEW role to 1990?
You raise a good in on the maritime aircraft numbers though , 9 P8/s seems to light.

Peter S
Peter S
19 days ago

The biggest non nuclear threat to UK security is disruption of vital imports, especially food. Whilst it is good to see a reminder of this in the press release, we have only 8 ASW frigates with no increase even contemplated over the next decade.
With some of these needed to escort a CSG or LRG often far from the Atlantic, there will be even fewer for operations in the latter.

Mark B
Mark B
19 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

Will not drones suppliment our abilities in the future as suggested above?

Tony
Tony
17 days ago
Reply to  Mark B

Don’t forget we have several pretty potent hunter-killer subs as well

Andy P
Andy P
18 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

Not sure we would need 8 ASW frigates to get the scran from France to the UK, we’ve even got a tunnel now.  😉 

John Clark
John Clark
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Absolutely Andy….. Though it depends if it’s France we are going to War with mate!

That tunnel could bite us on the ass when the 1st Battalion Garlic Rifles come marching through to take control of our vital Herefordshire Vineyards……

Andy P
Andy P
18 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

I’ve just been rewatching the Yes Ministers and Sir Humphry says that the French are the real enemy and we only have a nuclear deterrent because the French do so you may be right. Definitely worth keeping an eye on, the filthy continentals.

John Clark
John Clark
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Ah, there we go Andy, I’ve never trusted those continental types, there’s a suspicious French sort at the bottom of my road, with tall antenna on his roof, I suspect he’s an EU Morse tapper….

Next time I see him, I’ll try the old Great escape rouse and say “your English is very good, where did you study” as I walk away, let’s see if he falls for it like old Gordon did.. ..

Andy P
Andy P
18 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

 😂  😂  😂 

Or lead with I shall say thiz, only wance….

John Clark
John Clark
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

😂😂🤣 Oh, we are so on the naughy step Andy, get ready for the woke set to take offence and red flag our posts…..

Andy P
Andy P
18 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

Zut alors ! Och Aye, das mananas as they say in Italy.
Still, makes a change from it being the missus that has put me on ‘puns’.

Airborne
Airborne
17 days ago
Reply to  John Clark

FFS LMAO

Peter S
Peter S
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

You’re right that most of our food imports come from Europe, much of it through the tunnel. Yet admiral after admiral and the occasional minister stress the need for a powerful navy to protect our trade routes. Perhaps that’s no longer true.
But to err on the side of caution, I would still like to see the T31s equipped for ASW without which their planned forward basing looks very risky. Denmark has given the Iver Huitfeldt a decent weapons/ sensor combination allowing it to carry out precisely those singleton roles planned for T31.

Andy P
Andy P
18 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

Like yourself Peter (and probably 99% on here) I’d like a few more escorts and preferably ‘high end’ ones but its all a massive juggling act financially. I was pleasantly surprised by the T32 announcement, admittedly we don’t know what we’ll get but there but there does seem to be a shift in focus towards the navy which instinctively makes more sense to me as an island that likes to do a fair bit of trade.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
18 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

Agree with you Peter. Even one to two more T26s would be great and another Astute. All big money items.

arcad2000
arcad2000
18 days ago

your country needs more Poseidons.

Deep32
Deep32
18 days ago
Reply to  arcad2000

It needs lots more too, but we won’t be getting them, unfortunately!

Johan
Johan
18 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

haven’t got the 9 yet don’t be greedy, NAO paper expects to add to fleet in future orders. AKA Like the RAAF, But we only have so much water to look @. and maybe Russia would be a better ally than USA currently.

Deep32
Deep32
18 days ago
Reply to  Johan

One can but wish, whilst keeping fingers crossed!! Let’s be honest, we are vastly under resourced, across all branches, yet we want to be a global player!!!
And yes, agree with your last comment.👍👍

Andy P
Andy P
18 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

Yes mate, its the same old story. We want to delude ourselves that we can be a ‘global player’ on a budget. I’ve no issue with the UK being a global player OR a theatre player OR even a purely self defence force, I do have a problem with the government (of any persuasion) underfunding whatever mission statement they’re pushing and ragging men (& women) and equipment unnecessarily.

End of tear stained rant.

David Steeper
David Steeper
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

At last count we have 2 trilion National Debt. For normal folk that looks like this £2,000,000,000,000 ! Defence spending could be a lot worse.

Andy P
Andy P
18 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I’m not moaning about how much is in the budget, more what the government expect to achieve with it.

Deep32
Deep32
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Like you , I don’t mind what/where we intend to be on whatever the stage size is. All I would like (like many others I’m sure), is the fiscal resources to match the ambition, or there is very little point to any of it, as we will always be incapable of fulfilling the brief as it were.
This I’m afraid to say, is what’s not happening. It’s all a little smoke and mirrors. Intentions are just that, unless supported by hard cash.
It’s good to rant. Saves you from too much drink!!!😂

Andy P
Andy P
18 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

I’ve a Sunday afternoon watching football (well Wales v Belarus  😉 ) so having a drink too. I’m a bit of a bluff old fashioned traditionalist when it comes to my Sunday afternoons. I find I’m less ranty with some T in me. Slainte.  🍻   😎 

Deep32
Deep32
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Just back from watching my lad play – unfortunately they were stuffed!! Will be doing pretty much the same for the England game, enjoy. 🍷🍷😂

Andy P
Andy P
17 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

Cheers Deeps, I’ll not wish you luck as I’m sure I can rustle up an Andorran granny/someone who’s been there/someone who’s heard of the place to justify backing them.  😂 

I’ll be on the red flavour loud mouth soup myself soon, might even open a bottle of the good stuff when my Andorran homies put you guys to the sword.  🙄   😂 

Last edited 17 days ago by Andy P
Andy a
Andy a
18 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

Give em chance, were coming out of decade plus of terror wars, we have massive debt hole to climb out of and we need to move kit from old style to new technology, drones, intel, fast moving info war.
We need to replace full navy and half army

David Steeper
David Steeper
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy a



Deep32
Deep32
18 days ago
Reply to  Andy a

Yes, don’t necessarily disagree with you about giving them a chance, but, you have to match finances with expectations. That is something I don’t think we are doing. If we want to be a global maritime power, then you need the budget to provide the resources. If you want a expeditionary army, then you size it and resource it accordingly. It’s the same for the air force, yes the evolution will take time, but you can’t do more with less.
My take on it, happy for all to disagree too.

Andrew
Andrew
18 days ago
Reply to  arcad2000

Tell the tories that.

Richard Allen
Richard Allen
18 days ago

Will this be a total waste of money if Scotland’s devolution happens, or will the Scottish Air force take over this role?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
17 days ago
Reply to  Richard Allen

No to both.

Mike
Mike
17 days ago
Reply to  Richard Allen

Scotland is already a devolved nation. You probably mean independence?

Steven McColm
Steven McColm
18 days ago

The MOD couldn’t use RAF Kinloss the former home of the BAe Nimrod which has all of the facilities that the Poseidon needs so they moved to RAF Lossiemouth. The money spent on the Poseidon is the same amount that could have been spent on the BAe Nimrod MR4.A .We had the Germans, French and Italians as the first launch customers and probably potential capabilities of becoming a AWACS platform but no it was scrapped.
With the Atlantic ocean next door of course you are going to name the facility Atlantic.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
18 days ago
Reply to  Steven McColm

Don’t go down the MR4 A road….
Prepare to be flamed….

Steven McColm
Steven McColm
18 days ago

The Avro Shackleton isn’t the fastest maritime aircraft, slow and steady, smelly and antiquated. There’s a few in museums and one or two that perform engine warm ups. Although there are plans to get one flying again for the airshows. Maybe my mate Kermit Wicks can help.

Klonkie
Klonkie
17 days ago
Reply to  Steven McColm

Nice Steven -make sure to bring those ear muffs though! Don’t forget to pack tins of beans to go with the greasy omlettes in the galley, mingled with the unmistaken aroma of avgas = delicious!

Andrew
Andrew
18 days ago

What will happen when the Scots get independence? Don’t want military assets in a foreign country.

Andy P
Andy P
17 days ago
Reply to  Andrew

We were all doing so well too…..  😔 

Andrew
Andrew
17 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

It’s an honest question. A big thing was made about ship building so am I wrong to be curious about what happens if Scotland go independent? Or should we stick to debating the name of a building?

Andy P
Andy P
17 days ago
Reply to  Andrew

Or should we stick to debating the name of a building?”

On a thread about what they’re naming a building, yeah, definitely. The whole ‘evil Jocks’ stuff gets done to death on pretty much every article that either mentions Scotland or warship building so you have plenty of others of previous articles to ‘reanimate’.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
17 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

FFS.  🙄 

Mike
Mike
17 days ago
Reply to  Andrew

Interesting to see all the media speculation about the future basing of Trident. It is said to be as a result of leaks from Westminster. I am guessing Scot Ind is more likely than many might be prepared to admit.

Martin Curry
Martin Curry
1 day ago
Reply to  Mike

Kings Bay Georgia is the logical choice.
It’s where the missiles are kept.