A Royal Air Force P-8 Poseidon patrol aircraft has flown from its base at Kinloss Barracks this morning to support Border Force Operations in the English Channel, say the Ministry of Defence.

The Poseidon made its operational debut last week tracking a Russian warship near the UK coast, it is now looking for dinghies.

RAF P-8A Poseidon with Russian vessel Vasily Bykov over the North Sea last week.

The task was previously performed by an A400M Atlas transport aircraft as reported here.

A Shadow R1 surveillance aircraft is also being used, something we also reported on earlier.

The Ministry of Defence said in a statement:

“The Defence Secretary has also authorised the use of the Shadow R1 aircraft. Both the P-8 Poseidon and the Shadow R1 will provide further essential support to the UK Border Force over the coming weeks subject to weather conditions and the Border Force’s requirements. The aircraft will track vessels and pass information to the Border Force who will then take any appropriate further action. This task was initially undertaken on Monday by an Atlas A-400M aircraft, which flew from RAF Brize Norton to provide surveillance over the Channel.”

Group Captain Chris Layden, Station Commander RAF Lossiemouth, said in the above statement:

“The Home Office has requested support and the RAF has responded quickly again with the deployment of a Poseidon MRA1 aircraft, flown by a team of personnel from RAF Lossiemouth. The aircraft has significant range and endurance, as well as the ability to support command and control and search and rescue operations, should the Border Force or UK Coastguard require it.”

According to the statement from the Ministry of Defence, this is part of a package of assistance from the Ministry of Defence to the Home Office “as they tackle small boats crossing in the Channel“.

What is the P-8 Poseidon?

The P-8 Poseidon, developed by Boeing, is designed to conduct anti-submarine warfare (ASW), anti-surface warfare (ASUW), and shipping interdiction, along with an electronic signals intelligence (ELINT) role. This involves carrying torpedoes, anti-ship missiles and other weapons.

The history of the aircraft dates back to June 2004, when the US Navy announced the selection of the Boeing multimission maritime aircraft, 737 MMA, and awarded a contract to Boeing for the system development and demonstration phase of the programme for the US Navy’s next-generation maritime surveillance aircraft. The aircraft was given the designation P-8A in March 2005.

The first British P-8.

Poseidon contains up to 7 crew computer consoles in its cabin, has an electro-optical and infrared sensor turret, a maritime surveillance radar and signal intelligence system. Its radar is capable of detection, classification and identification of ships, small vessels and surfaced submarines.

It also has coastal surveillance capability meaning that the Poseidon can be used for search and rescue operations.

The UK has ordered nine of the aircraft at a cost of £2.5 billion pounds and has recieved two of them so far.

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Johnnie Cope
Johnnie Cope
1 month ago

I hope that P8 is picking up French border force radio chatter

DRS
DRS
1 month ago

Good “training” for the crew. Sad situation for the people trying to make the crossing. Coast guard should buy more s100 achieves copters for this kind of operation as they have in wales for SAR. We also need to have s100’s on all the river class that will perform fishieries protection and also Duties such as this.

Rob N
Rob N
1 month ago
Reply to  DRS

This type of thing should be a job for a drone not a P8. The BF should buy some. Or get the RAF to task some.

James M
James M
1 month ago
Reply to  Rob N

The RAF doesn’t currently have any drones that can legally fly in UK (or European IIRC) airspace. This will change when Protector shows up though.

dan
dan
1 month ago

Did Merkel close the German borders to migrants?

Mark
Mark
1 month ago
Reply to  dan

No, Germany and France still take in far more migrants than the UK does according to latest figures.

julian1
julian1
1 month ago
Reply to  dan

That would go against EU principles

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago

This should be interesting!

“Downing Street has promised its “integrated review” of foreign, defence, security and international development policy – the first for five years – will be the most far-reaching since the Cold War.

But the cross-party committee, headed by Conservative ex-minister Tobias Ellwood, said it was “concerned that the gap between this expectation and reality is widening”.

Its report urged the government to welcome “challenge” from the armed forces, international allies, industry, Parliament and the public.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53752183

Julian
Julian
1 month ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

The UK has entered a deeper recession than any other G7 country in the last quarter(*), according to many commentators due in large part to the fact that the UK economy is more reliant on retail and services which were absolutely decimated by the lockdown. Just maybe this wretched Covid-19 will spur the Government in power to finally look seriously at ways to boost manufacturing to better balance the economy and to come up with a very aggressive stimulus package to help that happen, and then just maybe defence could get a share of that stimulus. I’m not holding my… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  Julian

Agreed. Also interesting to note how the European FCAS fighter programme will be optimised for carrier ops which is what we should be doing with Tempest.

Fingers crossed the defence budget allows for it.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/european-fcas-fighter-to-be-optimised-for-carrier-ops

ETH
ETH
1 month ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

So you’re suggesting they build a STOVL tempest? Or cats and traps? Either one will be extremely costly to perform.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  ETH

EMALS, by 2025 they will be performing as they should and POW would be a very good starting point.

Costly yes, but able to accommodate a wider range of aircraft including drones.

USN readies carrier fleet for F-35Cs

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/usn-readies-carrier-fleet-for-f-35cs

ETH
ETH
1 month ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Unless there is a sudden political epiphany for the need to invest considerably in the defence sector I don’t see it happening, sadly.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 month ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

That article is speculation, not fact or official requirement.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

No, its fact unless you know more than Capt. Danny Hernandez, public affairs officer for the Navy Acquisition Executive?

“The necessary modifications to CVN 78 and 79 to fully employ the capabilities of the F-35s and enable them to be more effective will occur prior to the first planned F-35C operations aboard those carriers,” Capt. Danny Hernandez, public affairs officer for the Navy Acquisition Executive, told Warrior in a statement.”

https://www.foxnews.com/tech/navy-prepares-its-new-ford-class-carriers-for-f-35c-stealth-attack

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

“The F-35C is being prepared for deployment aboard existing Nimitz-class carriers as well as for the first two next-generation Ford-class carriers, which are being modified to integrate with the emerging F-35C stealth fighter.”

https://www.militaryaerospace.com/communications/article/14073757/aircraft-carriers-f35c-networking

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

“Get USS Kennedy Ready For F-35Cs, Congress Orders Navy
The Navy always planned to add F-35 modifications to its two brand-new aircraft carriers at a later date. But an annoyed Congress wants it done now.”

https://breakingdefense.com/2019/12/get-uss-kennedy-ready-for-f-35cs-congress-orders-navy/

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

So why is Congress Only procuring 12 F-35C’s this year, and None in 2021?
The USN obviously does Not like F-35c!

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

Answer,

“CAPITOL HILL – The Marine Corps is accelerating its F-35C carrier variant Joint Strike Fighter procurement and slowing its F-35B vertical landing variant to support Navy deployment requirements, the Marines’ top aviator told lawmakers today.

In its Fiscal Year 2020 budget request the Marines asked for 10 fewer F-35Bs; in the budget’s projection for out years, the service dropped its planned F-35B buys by five F-35Bs in 2021 and three in FY 2022. For the F-35C, though, the service increased its request by nine planes in the five-year Future Years Defense Program.”

https://news.usni.org/2019/04/04/marines-accelerating-f-35c-procurement-support-carrier-deployments-f-35b-buys-slow

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

The United States Navy has different plans to what the USMC plans are. They are more or less independent organizations, and USMC are reliant on the USN for carrier slots. If the USN says it not make all its carriers F-35C ready, so be it, there is nothing the USMC can do.

As I said the USN has reduced it F-35C procurements lately. It is possible the F-35C project could to be terminated, maybe?

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

“As I said the USN has reduced it F-35C procurements lately. It is possible the F-35C project could to be terminated, maybe?” Quite possible. “WASHINGTON — An issue that risks damage to the F-35’s tail section if the aircraft needs to maintain supersonic speeds is not worth fixing and will instead be addressed by changing the operating parameters, the F-35 Joint Program Office told Defense News in a statement Friday. The deficiency, first reported by Defense News in 2019, means that at extremely high altitudes, the U.S. Navy’s and Marine Corps’ versions of the F-35 jet can only fly at… Read more »

Joe16
Joe16
1 month ago
Reply to  ETH

What’s the alternative, though? Tempest purely for the RAF and a US or European aircraft for the FAA? It would be madness to finally regain a decent fixed wing carrier capability only to then not get a replacement aircraft. I’m not against shopping abroad, but it’d be nice to go domestic if we can. Personally, I’d agree with Nigel that we go EMALS because it gives us the best breadth of operability. Aside from an increased airframe toughness and beefier landing gear, there aren’t a lot of changes either. My understanding is that the problems the F35C has had were… Read more »

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Joe16

India is having a lot of probs with it’s STOBAR carriers, aircraft launched with little of a meaningful load. Also high loses!

Joe16
Joe16
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

Fair point, my understanding is they’re using Mig29Ks though, right? They’re known to be pretty bad- even the Russians were losing them off their cruiser/carrier/tug-positioned-airfield. Their latest competitions are for fighters for both the STOBAR carriers and the future CATOBAR ones, with the F/A18E and Rafale M being the contenders. Details are a bit hazy, but the competition requirements are for the aircraft to be capable of launching from one of the STOBAR carriers with 4 BVR missiles, 2 short range ones, 75% fuel load and 100% gun ammunition. So I assume that the two can achieve that. With 6th… Read more »

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Joe16

STOBAR will only work properly with vectored thrust jet engines, and that is a very big modification to a CATOBAR aircraft.

Joe16
Joe16
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

By “properly”, I assume you mean taking off with a full fuel and munitions load? As I said, not all of the details of the Indian bids are available, so I don’t know how the Rafale or Super Hornet are saying they can meet that requirement I previously stated- but I assume it’s pure thrust to weight and you’re right it’s not the full capacity of those aircraft. But that’s kind of my argument with Tempest; they may want thrust vectoring anyway, and the newest adaptive engines (can’t remember the proper name) and use of composites means that thrust to… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago

Are the immigrants using submarines.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

“Are the immigrants using submarines”. Excellent! So the *economic migrants are coming across on dinghies and we just escort them in …. It’s not beyond the wit of man to realise that this will bring in huge numbers, as we (Britain and France) are effectively encouraging them to do it….. They should be turned around before they leave French territorial waters. *They aren’t asylum seekers as they are already in a safe country, France! If they come here claiming asylum from France ( the only possible way they can) then I suggest we get the UN to look at the… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

IMO the reaction to this migration is borderline paranoid. There have been about 4000 Channel dinghy migrants this year. Every year in the UK about 600,000 people die, 200,000 babies are aborted and Covid deaths are running at 40,000. We need a sense of perspective. We take far fewer migrants than France or Germany. One man’s easy touch is another’s safe haven and chance of a life without violence or religious persecution. We ought to feel proud that desperate people risk everything and put their trust and hope in the UK. Its a great complement to this country. These immigrants… Read more »

Joe16
Joe16
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Thanks for that Paul, I couldn’t agree more

william
william
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

well, I don’t agree. They are mostly young men who should be back in their countries of origin, helping to sort out the many problems that have been concerning them.

Herodotus
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

A breath of fresh-air wafts across UKDJ. So nice to see 🙂

Bob
Bob
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

No, that’s just a warped lefty fantasy, Paul. Instead, they’re illegal economic immigrants who are coming to the UK after paying thousands to people smugglers.

By all means allow asylum for genuine applicants. But do not allow this chaotic economic migration; it’s a free for all suits only the needs of the people smugglers. High time we brought this criminal racket – and the sinister socialist desires of the hard left – to an abrupt end.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Bob

In truth I son’t mind the RAF trying out their new toys except that it reinforces that sense of panic and bunker mentality we need to lose. Criminals thrive where there are vulnerable people. We need to protect the vulnerable as the highest priority. I have no time for Ms Patel whose family has done done very well for themselves out of the UK but who is now pulling up the drawbridge and closing the gates to refugees from starving ( sorry economic migrant) and war torn countries. Disgusting protectionism. I can understand that some refugees end up claiming benefits… Read more »

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I have no time for Ms Patel whose family has done done very well for themselves out of the UK but who is now pulling up the drawbridge and closing the gates to refugees from starving ( sorry economic migrant) and war torn countries. Disgusting protectionism. I’m glad that Priti Patel clearly has the balls to do whats needed Paul, good on her! As for calling France a “Starving war torn country”, that’s simply outrageous language from a Brmoaner! You will get drummed out of the league of liberals softies using language like that! Starving …. have you seen the… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Well John, I did vote to remain but am quite happy to do a ‘reboot’ of the nation. It gives us gives us the opportunity not to reinstall lots of old software, old ways of doing things. Covid overlaid on Brexit is lancing many boils. Immigration attitudes are the pus coming out. We are remembering our identity. England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland. Boris’ Brexit deal has cut the NI Unionists off at the knees. They have been blackmailing GB for a hundred years with threats of anarchic violence. The reunification of Ireland, probably as some kind of federal island, is moving… Read more »

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Hi Paul, I cant argue with your logic to be honest. Northern Ireland does seem to be progressively moving towards some form of independent/federal alliance with the Republic, perhaps some sort of co owned federal alliance with the UK?? Providing its done with the full democratic consent of the clear majority in Northern Ireland, its entirely their business and destiny to decide. I think we have already seen the peak of Scottish Independence movement though, its already starting to falter, as the Scottish people push past “Scotland the Brave” and look at Independence in the cold light of day. An… Read more »

Mark
Mark
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

In the event of an independent Scotland, it would go through the Process like any other nation, most likely quicker due to being mostly aligned with the EU right now. Both Spain and the Commission recently reiterated that there wouldn’t be any blocking of their application.

Don’t know why you think the EU would refuse them just because the rUK might be unhappy, the feelings of rUK aren’t our concern anymore, as long as an independence is done legally they will be eligible.

As to NI, ask again in a decade or so to see how things are.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark

I didn’t mean to open the Scottish question again … An independent Scotland would indeed have to go through the hoops to join the EU, slight sticking point is support for Independence is already slipping… If you wish to live in a low public spending, very high taxed country you go for it Mark, enjoy. Thanks to the SNP making all our ears bleed with their constant and endless winging about how hard done by Scotland is (even through you get more spent on you per head in Scotland than the rest of us), as they drive in the wedge… Read more »

Mark
Mark
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Not Scottish mate, we left a hundred years ago.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Well John, It’s a fascinating time. There are still of course recidivist Irish Nationalist enclaves which will always vote Sinn Fein. The same can be said of the Unionists. But if a referendum was held today the catholics I know in NI would vote no to unification with the South which they regard as a moral and economic basket case. Sinn Fein is only doing so well in the Republic because the alternation stitch up of the Fianna Fail and Fine Gael cliques has screwed things up so badly. There is no way NI catholics would swap the NHS for… Read more »

Mark
Mark
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Economic Basket case? You do realise how it’s NI that’s the economic basket case compared to the Republic right, and thats even with GB tossing them billions a year to keep the lights on. NI wont be an “growth engine” at any point, their educational sector is not fit for purpose, their economically active population leaving out the public sector is barely 600K with a chunk of that relying on cross border trade.

NI will remain the stagnant economy it’s become sadly.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark

Don’t shoot the messenger 🙂
I’m only reporting conversations I have had with sensible NI contacts who of course have from time to time lived and have family in the South.

Mark
Mark
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Given how many are happily undercutting Irish businesses by not meeting the national standards I’m a bit surprised that they still think they are ahead economically tbh. A good chunk of NI construction lives or dies on whether they can work in the Republic for example.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Mark

And GB. Ryan Air were happily flying socially industanced flights from Belfast to London during the lockdown. 🤣

Mark
Mark
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Those weren’t basic workers though, it’s much cheaper/easier to have a subbie drive down a van load of lads to Dublin than fly to London. Besides, it’s easier to work in the Republic an claim the dole in NI as many do, and as I said in Construction for example, they get to undercut the Irish firms as they don’t pay the national rates.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I think we will find wales clinging on to England for dear life….maybe with Cornwall developing some form fifth column freedom pasty movement. I’m giving it less that a generation before the republic try and give the 6 counties back ( many forget, but Collins really made a wise move, as I’m not sure the republic would have ever come out of its civil war with the 6 counties involved).

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I’m not accepting any bets on that. My NI info is that the civil war hasn’t ended yet. 😂 They give the coalition a few months…tlll the Brexit deal is done.
Wales should be satisfied with Bevan giving us the NHS….the largest Welsh Chapel in the world 😟

Mark
Mark
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Would have thought NI would be busy with their own fecked up politics. As for the “civil war”, yeah that’s not actually a live issue in Irish politics effectively for a decade at least (if not longer if you go back to the Tallaght Strategy), an for all intents is over, FF and FG have gone into government, never again in an election can they refuse the potential of doing so again. Likely we’ll see an informal arrangement develop.

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

We Can’t accommodate the whole of the Global South! A line needs to drawn somewhere. We will end up with a lot more of the country in covered in concrete!

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 month ago
Reply to  Bob

Wouldn’t you pay thousands for a chance of a better life after years of living in fear in some shithole in the middle east, i sure as hell would.

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

I think Robert, it is like running away from
a problem, and not facing it. The people of the Middle East need to start solving their own problems.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

That is very true, but as one of the worlds wealthiest nations, we can’t just standby and abandon people.

Stephen
Stephen
1 month ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Robert Blay.

We cannot just keep allowing more in forever. Are we just going to keep letting more in until eventually we are outnumbered in our own country (or even anywhere remotely close to that)?

We have allowed more than enough immigrants into the U.K. by now, we cannot just keep letting more in forever.

WeeWill
WeeWill
1 month ago
Reply to  Bob

Ah yeh, giving a shit about fellow humans; those sick leftists!

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
1 month ago
Reply to  Bob

Couldn’t agree more Bob . Bottom line these people are breaking the law they are illegal .the clue is in the name ILLEGAL immigrants but of course the leftie luvies adore that kind of thing they don’t care about the rule of law no no sir not at all if they had their way they’d invite everyone in (at everyone else’s expense mind they wouldn’t offer up their own spare bedroom or open their own wallet). Of course they (the luvie looney leftists) are hypocrites they lock their doors at night and would phone the po po if anyone walked… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

Gosh

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

😝

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Gratitude and generosity, yes. For how long? Have a look at the ONS website. 72.9 million prediction for the UK population by 2041. Up from 66 million now, and 56 million when I was a child in the 80s. Please tell me what areas of the green belt are you happy to build on? And the infrastructure increases to accompany? All lovely words, but they sound like a politicians, as down the line they are dead and its no longer my problem, Jack. Will you be around in 2041 or 2051 to deal with the consequences? A net increase of… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago

And before I get the usual veiled insinuations of “racism” from the usual suspects, my own father was an immigrant. And even he thinks it has gone too far.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago

Hi Daniele, I don’t subscribe to the view that immigration is the cause of our intractable social and economic problems; congestion, housing, waiting lists, inequality etc. Rather I believe it is a convenient political distraction to maintain the establishment. We are not that overcrowded. And we could probably feed ourselves rather than import 70% approx of what we eat if we decided to do so. The distribution of land ownership is probably the key driver of social inequality. That and the way the establishment works in such a way as to disenfranchise our own people in favour of dubious foreign… Read more »

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

So you think the UK can accommodate all those extra people in Dr Who’s Tardis, instead of a lot more houses?

Andy
Andy
1 month ago

It’s fun to imagine a UK with 100m people though, think of the defense budget we would have!

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy

Doubling the population does Not always doublle the GNP of a country! GNP per capita could fall to below Bulgaria’s standard of living.

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

My apologies for some spelling mistakes,, spell prediction not 100% tonight!

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Andy

Alternatively, if the UK had a GNP per capita as Singapore, the GNP would be more than Double of what it is now.
And that is without doubling human waste!

WeeWill
WeeWill
1 month ago

Circa 4000 people crossing the channel a year is a net population increase of 0.006%. 2% of the countries surface is currently urbanised. Neither of those figures are scary. This ‘crisis’ serves only the politicians, it’s policy failure to keep up with population growth that they are scapegoating from.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago

Here here Danielle

Jason Holmes
Jason Holmes
1 month ago

I agree with you, its a matter of facts, not racially motivated, if we accept this many people are going to live in the UK, land needs to be given to housing, or ‘blade runner’ style super blocks! Uk space is frighteningly limited.

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Jason Holmes

I totally agree with you!

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Jason Holmes

I often think if it was possible to have a sun shade over the Sahara Desert, and return the land to good use and habitual?

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Hi Paul, everything you read in the Guardian and Independent isn’t fact your know my dear chap. In the real world, people in charge have to make tough decisions about upholding the law, your lovely liberal, rainbow tinted way of life is only possible, because our elected officials and their officers make hard grown up decisions on your behalf, so you don’t have too. The 200,000 babies aborted is a little strong too! You are all for illegal immigrants rights, but not a woman’s right to choose it would seem?? France and Germany have indeed taken huge numbers of migrants,… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

John, please don’t patronise me. I wouldn’t touch the Guardian or Independent with a barge pole. My opinions are my own. And they are Christian not Liberal. There is a difference.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Ah, something we agree on Paul, the gutter press!

It’s somewhat distasteful to me that you hold the rights of economic migrants somewhat higher than a woman’s right to choose, but that’s religion for you….

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Well, no-one can take away your free will. And ‘religionists’ would not wish too. Coercion is not ‘salvation’. The issue with abortion is that the cultural and economic pressure acts so as to make an abortion the default ‘solution’ to a crisis pregnancy. In any walk of life quick fix decisions taken in haste and in panic are rarely good decisions. Helping a woman with a crisis pregnancy is no exception. It is simply not acceptable that counselling and exploration of support options is monopolised by the abortion providers.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I have to agree Paul, my views around caution in abortion don’t come from Faith. But I’ve seen it in the real, it’s not nice and many women suffer for that decision after. Conversely You can’t not have abortion as ultimately it’s a woman right to choice and if it’s going to harm a woman’s life so much she must be supported and not having it causes even more suffering. But we should make sure every support is give, including Pre Natal adoption pathways and more support in pregnancy and during motherhood. Fundamentally Abortion is ending a life, not acknowledging… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

All good ‘pro-life’ arguments, which I’m sure would be vigorously countered by the ‘pro- choice’ lobby.
My old boss used to say ‘ you don’t know what you don’t know’ , and my grandmother used to say ‘ advice is only for those who will take it’. Both counsels apply to the woman in a crisis pregnancy situation.
It seems your opinions on abortion are grounded in experience rather than faith. This lecture has an interesting ‘faith’ perspective. Worth a read.

https://rabbisacks.org/credo-it-takes-faith-to-have-a-child-faith-in-mankinds-purpose/

Enjoy your weekend. Tomorrow we celebrate the Feast of the Assumption, Motherhood. And/or VJ Day 🤣

WeeWill
WeeWill
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Of course, the left-leaning press are the ones not worth reading. Heaven forbid news / info is consumed across multiple sources and assessed with balance. But I know, we’re all human and our lives are ruled by confirmation bias and emotion instead of rationale. If you can’t get your news in alarmist all caps headlines, it’s not worth consuming.

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Our country is too densely populated as it is, to take any more.
Why do the migrates not go to a larger land mess country?

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

That we are too densely populated is really a myth. The congestion we experience in housing is caused by the hoarding of land.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/european-countries-by-population-density.html

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I see from the list the UK is nearly 3 times as dense as Spain!
The UK is way Too high up the list!

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Land use will make No difference to the average density of the whole country.

Such experiments of redistributing Land and use, have been catastrophic in so call Socialist countries all over the World in the past.

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

The Far Left Never learn any lessons of applied Socialist catastrophic experiments, from history!

julian1
julian1
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I was a bit dismayed at the Sky News reporting yesterday. Female journalist in a boat outside Dover asking occupants if they had come from Calais. Actually they had come from Africa but never mind. Sky had turned it into a circus event. The boat never offered them a line or anything.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  julian1

Please don’t get me onto the subject of female Sky journalists. My BP was doing so well…

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Also Over well over 600000 born every year!

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

European fertility rates are a problem. The truth is that we need immigrants to create new blood for the economy. Immigrants tend to have stable family structures and children.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?locations=EU

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Just like a Pyramid Scheme!

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

Indeed. Immigrants on the whole have traditional family values which give society a natural stability. Once you depart from these you are in a ‘fly by wire’ situation in which society has no natural tendency to return to level flight. Hence you are always yawing between left and right politics.

Airborne
Airborne
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Paul, while I do agree with your thought process and reasoning, and you cannot fault or blame people attempting to make the best of the life they have, you have to understand that the vast majority of people coming to the UK are in fact economic Imigrants, and have lived/passed through a number of third party countries. Indeed many have lived in these countries for many years. I am fortunate to have close interaction with many of these people and unfortunate enough to also have close interaction with the dirt bags who are smuggling them in. Most of these people… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Airborne

A, all agreed – sound points. Your final comment is the one we need to examine. What Covid-19 has done is topple ‘the economy’ off its perch as our unquestioned ‘god’. We have had jolt which has triggered a remembrance that looking after the most vulnerable is in fact a deeper human instinct than material wealth. For the avoidance of doubt: what I am saying is that looking after these bedraggled boat people is something we need to do if we are to be at peace with ourselves, our own conscience. Now when a person is at peace with himself… Read more »

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

This country would definitely Not be at
peace with it’s self if you started to apply disastrous Socialist Land redistribution experiments. We be less likely to feed ourselves!
This just shows, the Far Left learn nothing!

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Meirion X

It worked pretty well for France: decapitate the aristocracy, give the land to the peasants, set up the Common Agricultural Policy, run Europe, Eurocopter, Rafale, Airbus, run UK water industry, Independent Nuclear deterrent, well equipped and confident armed forces….am I missing something?

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Really! It resulted in Napoleon Bonaparte whom sent Europe into chaos and would of invaded Britain if he won some famous battles! And France was defeated again half a century later! Only post WW2 new world order has been a success for France!

Meirion X
Meirion X
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I think you are missing something, that France’s land redistribution has resulted in lots of small farms making French agriculture one of most inefficient in Europe. In making France the main Beneficiary of the CAP at expense of the rest of EU tax payers including British!
Good riddance to CAP!

Stephen
Stephen
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Pual.P.

Should we feel pride in just keep letting more in until we are outnumbered in our own country? Do you think China, Korea, India, Pakistan, Turkey, etc. are doing this?
Do our underage girl being raped, terror attacks “benefit” us?
You don’t strengthen your own culture by making your own race outnumbered in your own country. We have allowed more than enough immigrants into the U.K. by now, we can’t keep letting more in forever.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago

I was quite surprised that A400M was involved as I wasn’t aware that it had any look down over water capabilities. Came across as flag waving. No special knowledge so stand to be corrected.

The other units now being used are a lot more credible but seem overkill where relatively simple drones could do the job.

Pongoglo
Pongoglo
1 month ago

Can someone reply to this – could we bring this conversation back to Defence and away from politics perhaps. I know that the A400 has been used to cover the SAR role in the Falklands as indeed has the Herc. It can remain on station for a very long time and handles well at very low level – also it can deploy life rafts and survival kits accurately and has practised this role. Question is how good is the radar – it is more than a weather radar and is cited as having navigation and terrain avoidance capability but is… Read more »

RobW
RobW
1 month ago
Reply to  Pongoglo

The A400M uses a Northrop Grumman AN/APN-241 E radar. It has limited ground mapping capabilities and has scope to be upgraded for maritime use, but as far as I can see that has not happened yet.

Given the height it was flying at it seems they were using the good old mark one eyeball with a pair of binoculars.

Sceptical Richard may be able to settle this, he worked on the A400M programme.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 month ago
Reply to  RobW

If you were using the Mk1 eyeball then any cheapo aircraft like a Twin Otter would do the job…..

Whilst I appreciate the A400M can carry a lot more eyeballs…..

RobW
RobW
1 month ago

Yet everything I have read implies that is exactly what they are doing.

Andrew
Andrew
1 month ago

Well,I’ll make a prediction…

The economic migrants will jump in a leaky boat, push off from the French shore and then dial ‘999’ and wait for the taxi, sorry, the rescue services to pick them up and bring them ashore in the Uk….

This is going to open the flood gates….

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago

Not going to comment on the migrant situation as that is another issue, but it shows a very sad state to me that the border patrol and coast guard don’t have enough resources, forcing the RAF to intervene.

As a result of Brexit and no longer having open borders with Europe, we need to properly invest in the border force and coastguard: more boats, a few helicopters etc…

Massive waste of money using a Poseidon, normally used for hunting submarines, especially when the forces themselves are so stretched.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve R

I suspect that using the Poseidon is more for the Search and rescue training opportunities Steve…

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

That’s a fair point I guess.

Sean Crowley
Sean Crowley
1 month ago

In Australia we intercept them and then we tell them they just shot them selves in the foot by trying to push in on the line for Refugees and then we deport them to a south Pacific nation that owes us money while they wait for their story to check out . If we dont get any confirmation we dont allow entry .

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean Crowley

Sense at last.

Jason
Jason
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean Crowley

Sounds like a good, effective and in the long term numbers reducing solution to a problem we seem incapable of dealing with. Almost sure it’s the last thing the powers that be will allow to happen then unfortunately. Do we have a free island around the British Isles (no, lets limit it to England to avoid complications) that we could build a holding facility on and keep these people in the luxury they’ve become accustomed to while their almost completely bogus claims can be assessed.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean Crowley

Excellent common sense approach Sean, I applaud your antipodean efforts!

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 month ago
Reply to  Sean Crowley

So an offshore detention centre?
Do we have any islands who owe us money?

Sean Crowley
Sean Crowley
1 month ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Not Australia that is for sure .

Johnnie Cope
Johnnie Cope
1 month ago

So, I wonder is this expensive and advanced P8 intercepting French border agents radio chatter as it flies back and forth

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago

Here’s a possible option: how about we just let in the sexy ones? ;-p

Cam
Cam
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve R

All the sexy male ones ? There almost all Male.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Cam

Now Cam, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water, this is a new idea and all ideas should be heard…

Now Steve, I assume you have a sexy rating system in mind, can I volunteer to hold the clipboard?

Steve R
Steve R
1 month ago
Reply to  John Clark

Hi John,

Yes of course. Anything less than an 8 is a no.

We’ll accept 7s if they can bring another friend who is at least a 7.

John Clark
John Clark
1 month ago
Reply to  Steve R

I’ll second that Steve, right, just off to pick up the speedboat, a couple of life jackets and a set of score cards, Ill meet you at Dover!

Who said pragmatism was dead….

DP
DP
1 month ago

When is Poseidon ’03’ due for delivery?

RobW
RobW
1 month ago

The tabloid fuelled frenzy over illegal immigrants is blown massively out of proportion. It is only a bigger issue now because of favourable conditions in the Channel. Hopefully Border Force will be given their own resources to counter this in future.

Illegal immigration and those seeking asylum pales into insignificance compared to legal immigration. We have always had the power to limit it but have chosen not to on economic grounds.

If we are prepared to have higher taxes and have less personal wealth we can limit population growth, but that is politically unattractive so the cycle continues.

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 month ago
Reply to  RobW

Higher personal wealth for who? Certainly the wealthy can get cheaper workers with unlimited immigration keeping wages lower, but it kills the social mobility of the British working class.
I feel immigration will cause more division. Perhaps we should bite the bullet & have a referendum. Unlimited immigration as one option, a limit of no more than a tenth of current immigration (10% of 300,000 = 30,000) as the other option. See who wins. At least it would settle it, instead of it being an ongoing wound.

RobW
RobW
1 month ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

I didn’t say anyone should have higher personal wealth.

Cam
Cam
1 month ago

Should we have some p8s based in southern England? And we should order Atleast 6 more, even government research said we need Atleast 8 more!.. But will we get a follow on order? Probably not! And knowing how many valuable assets of almost every kind we have already lost and will continue to lose why would we buy the number we actually need. It’s embarrassing how much the UK millitary has shrunk! And how we can barely deploy a division of troops never mind a field Army… And the yanks don’t seem to like our cuts either, and neither do… Read more »

RobW
RobW
1 month ago
Reply to  Cam

Jeremy Hunt tried to make it more of an issue in the leadership contest but it fell flat with their membership. Boris has never said anything that implies we will see an increase in defence spending. He is more concerned with grandstanding and leaves the details to Cummings. What dear Dominic has in mind is anyone’s guess.

Until something happens to embarrass the UK and its military then I fear the public will pay little attention. The vast majority have no idea and don’t care.

Fen Tiger
Fen Tiger
1 month ago
Reply to  RobW

St Mawgan would make a good Base for Southen P8s’?

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago

I’m not going to engage in the right or wrong of immigration or boarder security. Im Just going to engage in a wee bit of empathy. What level of desperate does it take to drive a person into a small dingy (especially with his family) and try and cross the sea. Actually just take a look at the channel ( or the med) it’s not a wee river or boarder crossing, it’s the deep dark that will drag you and your loved ones under and kill you. It’s almost ended me a couple of times and I knew what I… Read more »

JohnHartley
JohnHartley
1 month ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Follow the money. Put MI5/6, GCHQ, Scotland Yard, HM Treasury on tracking down those ruthless b*st*rds who make a fortune, by fleecing migrants & putting them in harm’s way.
I would suggest a mandatory minimum five year jail term served in full, for those making money out of people smuggling. Plus wealth confiscation orders + mandatory deportation for those traffickers not born here.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  JohnHartley

Oh yes, don’t get me wrong my empathy is for the people who are pushed to risk their lives. Those that take advantage and profit should be pursued and punished harshly, Not just the traffickers, but those that use and exploit these individuals For their work as practically modern slaves ( there is a massive black economy of exploiting subclasses in the western world). We should not only punish but completely asset strip these groups of criminals and used this to support keeping people in their own countries. As for the illegal immigrants themselves they are by the nature of… Read more »

Stephen
Stephen
1 month ago

They are illegal immigrants, they have zero right to be in our country, by law they have to take refuge in the 1st safe country. We can’t be too soft on illegal immigrants or it will only encourage more. The U.K. has already allowed more than enough immigrants in by now, a few and no one would have been bothered but it has went way beyond that by now, we can’t keep letting more in forever. It creates divisions in a country where previously there was none, and we get more underage girls being raped, more terror attacks, etc. We… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 month ago
Reply to  Stephen

Stephen sorry but the statement about no rights is just plain incorrect. We live in a country that respects the person and the rule of law. That means every person has a set of both rights and responsibilities. So for instance Physically attacking someone without legal status carries the same penalties in law as an attack a citizen of this county. We all have the same protections of person and property, it’s a foundation of our society. Some other places in the world did not or still don’t hold to the universal rule of law and universal protection for the… Read more »

Andrew Thorne
Andrew Thorne
1 month ago

Good to see the P8 in use